Moving towards mediation, need to stop limbo

[shodan]

some journaling...yesterday I went to yoga with my W. On the way there, she mentioned this super thin woman who goes there. She is to thin frankly and my W expressed come concern for her. Then she mentioned that the woman "checks" me out in class all of the time. My W said "I did not get mad at her when I saw this, I just smiled at her." I thought this was interesting...she noticed another woman looking at me.

Then, when we got to yoga, this woman whom we see there a lot smiled at me and said "hi". My W said "she is totally into you. Well, you are a lot of work, so she can have you." She said this with a smile, not as a criticism. I laughed and said "that is pretty funny b/c I am not a lot of work. I am pretty direct and easy to read, as are you." I then commented that it is ironic that we are in this situation since we both are pretty easy to please and like the same things. I said "we both like to travel, we both like sex, good wine, chocolate and coffee." I then commented that I am getting all of that now except the second one. She smiled and said "maybe you just need to work a little harder to get it."

So confusing....

Then, we both discussed how non-confrontational we had been about our issues. Her parents NEVER fought and my parents do ALL of the time. So, when we first met, I tended to express my feelings often. My W did not like this and said "we will not fight like your parents do." So we stopped arguing for the most part but as a result, we never expressed our true feelings, desires and wants due to a fear of an argument. We both agreed that we need to do this more and state our true feelings.

[shodan]

I am full of mixed emotions today. On one hand, I sense that my W wants to work on our M (based on all of the thing that I have outlined previously) but I still have no confirmation that she ended the A (which she denies was ever an A anyway), which causes me to pause.

Here are some of the positive signs in the past week or so:
- we kiss most mornings and at night but i initiate it 95% of the time. But my W does not resist.
- this morning, my D10 mentioned a house that our friend is selling. She said "I love that house". My W commented "I would buy that house if you were OK switching schools." This house is ~50% more expensive than our current home. I mentioned this because my W commented to me that one of the issues in our M for her was that I was putting pressure on her to buy a bigger house. She did not want a bigger house. Therefore, her comment to my D10 is a true 180 from where she was before. Not the talk of a WAW who wants to leave her husband and family.
- I booked a reservation this weekend for the four of us but asked my W that if she wants to make it for two to let me know so I can get a babysitter. She said "why don't we just go without the kids but let's not have a reservation. I don't want to be beholden to a reservation. Maybe we just eat at home and then go out later for a drink and/or get appetizers at the bar."
- My W went to yoga this morning and bought me a coffee from Starbucks on the way back. Small gesture.

now the more negative things (which all could be in my head):
- any affection is limited to a small kiss that I initiate
- she still seems pretty rushed...her work is killing her, so I know that is part of it
- she has showed me no transparency

[Jefe]

Your gratitude list is much larger. Just sit with it for a minute.

[unbidden]

Sho, I understand your worries about transparency but please be wary of being that kid on Christmas who gets pretty much everything he wants except a BB gun and thus ruins the day for everyone. You have most everything you want, it seems, and yet you are unhappy she is not giving you transparency in the manner you expect it. Maybe she is giving it to you in other ways? Just food for thought.

[shodan]

Unbidden, I like your analogy (and the movie reference). I know, that is what I keep telling myself...BE PATIENT. and don't shoot my eye out.

[Jefe]

ROFLMAO!

[Sotto]

I agree that it all sounds pretty positive, and I'm glad for you. But - and it is a big but I think - is transparency a crucial thing for you? If it is, I would tread carefully and take things slow, and at some point, you may want to tell your W that it is only possible to really move forward if she can be really honest with you.

Still, pleased things are moving in a good direction for you...

[Tarheel]

Shodan, I agree that it appears that things are moving in a positive direction, however it appears to me that you're in that 'things could go either way' spot. I would rely on your DB coach (I think you mentioned having one) for guidance on how to proceed, but have you and W discussed MC at all?

My only advice would be to tread carefully at this point. Looks like you've managed to start re-attracting W, but be careful not to scare her off. I echo Toot's advice as far as W admitting to an A/ providing transparency- that's something that only you can decide is a deal breaker or not. What if she never admits to anything more than a friendship- does that matter to you?

[shodan]

re: lack of transparency...I think it would take me a lot longer to trust her fully without it. I am OK with that actually. My one issue is that if she still is having some contact with him, then I know her feelings for me will not come back. That is my biggest concern because she told me that she is "waiting for her feelings to come back" before she can fully commit to our M.

re: MC...we have discussed it but she does not seem to be a fan. She has friends who have gone and she said all have found it a waste of time. But I think the MCs were focused on the past, their parents, etc.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and feedback.

[blndsid]

Sho, I found you from a couple posts you made to me. I've read almost all of your threads from the beginning over several days and feel like I'm looking into the not too distant future for myself.

In my sitch, I'd have a hard time if she didn't offer transparency, especially having an OM1 being a coworker, and a probable OM2 (next door neighbor to S5's friend, ugh). I know I don't want to live my life looking through my W phone/e-mail, but I'm afraid I couldn't trust without at least some of that up front. I feel the same as you, I'm tired of the lies, lies, and lies.

I too have a W that doesn't admit to the A, but when I confront with info she denies it, then later tells me it's over (3 times so far), followed shortly by being angry, spiteful, and down right mean. Last time, a week ago, I gave her the "I won't live in an open marriage" speech inspired by starsky. I did it because I felt it I had to be CLEAR and it had to be the last time to confront the A before I went back to hardcore LRT.

Based on the spiteful response from the W the next day, our R conversation two days later, and the fact that she is scheduled with an ATTY this Wednesday, I have been considering filing for D or at least look to start mediation (DM inspired by you). However, I've decided to take a wait and see approach for a little while longer. I'm not ready to push the D button myself, but limbo is unacceptable as well.

How do you think your talk of D affected your sitch? I know the 'control' thing was always in your face, but I understand sometimes you gotta take a stand. However, she is still believed to be in an A, even after all that. What would you do different if anything with the D talk?

My wife has been at a work conference for 6 days, with co-worker/OM1. I have used this week to reflect, detach, and prepare for serious LRT. My rules of thumb were going to be: initiate no hugs, no touching/rubbing, no ILY's, no mention of A, OM1, OM2, R, M, and I've stopped snooping for my sake. Especially with a possible OM2, no ML until she gets a work-over from her doc. I have been working to be more patient with the boys and show more confidence at home.

My question stems from your experience and the advice offered regarding physical contact and cake eating. You have apparently been kissing and having some contact. My thought was during LRT it's OK to accept hugs/kisses from the W if she initiates. If she were to initiate something more, like making out or ML, my plan was to say I'd like to ML with W, but unfortunately I don't have condoms in the house.

Thoughts on any of that? I don't want to be completely cold, but I want her to know she's losing me, and in short order. Don't mean to hijack, I just know you've been there for a while now, and maybe giving advice will help you reflect on your sitch too.