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#2500187 10/24/14 07:58 AM
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Hi everyone. My last thread got full so I'm moving the conversation over to this thread.

My previous thread is here:

How HER Crisis Changed ME

Anyways, I pretty much agree and see what everyone is saying about the "demise" of the marriage, but.....

I got the impression that there were some on here that didn't think it was right because I refuse to be a friend to XW. I can be "friendly" but really don't feel like being her "friend." Not NOW and maybe not EVER. As of right now, I will not be her friend.

Maybe someday that will change. Maybe not.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad that is your choice. It does take two to be friends. You are nowhere near being friends, u still love her and u r still hurting. BUT you do have to and always will be the father to her kids. That is the only thing u have to be. For your children's sake be friendly and try to show respect to their mother. It will get easier once u have let go and moved on.
In my case I want a Civil relationship with my sons father but he chooses to be a jerk. My son was made from love and his dad is apart of him. The best I can do is show my son how much he is loved by us both and always show respect to his dad.......regardless of his dad's actions.
Tad in my opinion the adultery can be worked thru, the worst part, and hardest part is forgiving all the mean and hurtful things they have said and done. That, to me is harder to forget and forgive than the cheating, Just my opinion.
Friendly is ok Tad.

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 10/24/14 09:02 AM.

_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
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I think one of the themes that emerged from your last thread is that of letting go of the past and moving forward. (They are linked!)

I am not sure whether it matters if we feel we can be friends, friendly or whatever. We are living in the current moment and dealing with where we are now, but trying to move forward positively, not stay essentially where we are (going round in circles) or even backtracking. Lots of ways of saying this.

Early progress is often slow, and we sometimes feel we aren't shifting, until we look back and see how far we have come. One day all this will not matter. We gradually let go of our baggage as we grow and move forward. (Counselling/therapy helps here) At present what you need to do is accept where things are now, and stop worrying about friends, and friendly.

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Thanks Renee and Beatrice.

Quote:
At present what you need to do is accept where things are now, and stop worrying about friends, and friendly.


Well, it came up because we were at a function together the other night and neither one of us said hello. I was fine with that. But....she told S28 that I "ignored" her all night. I was just wondering what the hell is she expecting....

She apparently wants a friendship and has even said so in the past and mentioned it to our sons.

I do not want one.

I just can't right now.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Originally Posted By: tadpole1025
Well, it came up because we were at a function together the other night and neither one of us said hello. I was fine with that. But....she told S28 that I "ignored" her all night. I was just wondering what the hell is she expecting....

When this doesn't bother you ...

And you stop wondering and just live your life ...

You'll be better.


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Actually no. No one said you had to be friends with her. It would be good if you could be friendly though. Right now you're incapable of that. And let's be honest. You had a lot of issues before you were even married. You take a lot of your frustration and abandonment issues out on your wife. That's why you had such an attachment to your rats. You continue to seek out things and people that will love you unconditionally.

Honestly a relationship with that young girl or anyone else right now isn't the best thing for you until you get your issues resolved. Just my 2 cents


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
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Quote:
You continue to seek out things and people that will love you unconditionally.
Might be a good thing to expand on, Mr B.


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Originally Posted By: tadpole1025
Thanks Renee and Beatrice.

Quote:
At present what you need to do is accept where things are now, and stop worrying about friends, and friendly.


Well, it came up because we were at a function together the other night and neither one of us said hello. I was fine with that. But....she told S28 that I "ignored" her all night. I was just wondering what the hell is she expecting....

She apparently wants a friendship and has even said so in the past and mentioned it to our sons.

I do not want one.

I just can't right now.

Tad



I told my wife during our sitch (she had an affair with a "man" 20 years younger than her, and then lied about it to me, to her own parents and to our adult children) that if our marriage ended this way, that I had absolutely zero plans on being friends with her. She had just said something that made it clear she thought it was all going to be sunshine and unicorns in that regard, and I just calmly said "Look, I need to be clear about something. Make no mistake -- if you end our marriage this way, by having an affair and lying to everyone about it and refusing to even try to end it and come back and work on our marriage -- I have zero intention of ever being your friend, much less your BEST friend. I will be civil, and we will co-parent our children while being respectful to each other, of course. However, if you decide to end your affair, be honest about things and come back and work on the marriage with me -- maybe going to a good marriage counselor -- for some period of time, say a year, and it doesn't work out then?? Then yes, although it would be hard at first but I could honestly see how we would probably end up good friends again. But not like this. Friends don't treat each other this way."

Although I didn't do it as some DBing tactic, she did say when we reconciled that it was the loss of my friendship that she missed more than anything.

fwiw.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Tad

FWIW, my 2 cents is….

Quote:
she told S28 that I "ignored" her all night. I was just wondering what the hell is she expecting....

She apparently wants a friendship and has even said so in the past and mentioned it to our sons.

I do not want one.


At the end of the day….I am sure most people would like a civil R with our exes. It make life a little easier, especially if you have children. Sometimes though...that is not possible and that's okay. The key IMO, is to let go of the anger you have toward her (much easier said then done).

That said, just live your life and be happy. YOUR happiness and peace of mind is what your focus should be. If that means that you do not play nicey nice with ex so be it. Ex can say and do whatever she wants – you have no control over it, so stick to what you can control, which is YOU.

In closing, personally I think you have already spent way too much energy on this topic.

Peace,
Eric


"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter".
"Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!"
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After a lot of thinking about just this topic, being "Friends" vs. being "Friendly", the above posts have really helped clarify the difference for me, and the importance of the distinction, of getting it right.


I am being friendly to my H at this point.

If I am not, how can he appreciate the changes I've made, and see that I'm a positive addition to his life?
If I am unfriendly, I will come off as cold, unapproachable, angry, and resentful. Or it will suggest that I am avoiding him because the sitch is just too painful for me.
Neither of those projections is something he's likely to want to hang around.
They both say: "You're not wanted."
They elicit guilt, anger, and other negative emotions that our spouses associate with US.

If I am friendly, (like I was when we first met, and as I am around people who enjoy my company), he might see that maybe--just MAYBE---he was incorrect in his assessment that I'm the source of his misery and he's better off without me.

However, we are not "Friends" at this point.
My friends don't avoid me, don't plan to cut me out of their lives. They have my best interests at heart and think of more than just themselves.
They're fun to be with, want to spend time with me for no other reason than we enjoy each other's company.

And I would not keep anyone as a friend who treated me so callously.

No. We are not "Friends" right now.
He is my husband, he is having a real issue in his life, and I am standing by him as long as I can in the hopes that he will get better, that we will get better, and we'll be able to be friends again.

The seeds are there. We were great friends, way back when. We could be again. I am letting him see that as often as I can.

But I don't ask him to hang out, make a fuss on his birthday, call him to shoot the breeze or share my problems.
And he certainly doesn't.

I have told him that if we divorce, that I will NOT be his "Friend".

I don't think he remembers this, so at some point I will revisit it with him.

I plan to never see or speak to him again.
Not to punish him, but because there will be no more room in my life for people who do not add to it in some equitable way.
(Family excluded, but he will no longer be "family" either, by his own choice.)

And-- because I will want to start over, move away from here and all the bad memories, and not subject myself to the ongoing pain of knowing my partner of almost 30 years thinks he's better off without me.

Nope. No can do.
That, for him, is the consequence of divorce, among many others.

Someone who divorces me without valuing me enough to try and salvage our M, who doesn't believe that promises and vows are important enough to make a change, who has no real remorse, and who still thinks only of what he wants, is not someone I want in my life.

Those actions show a lack of integrity, a lack of reliability and inner strength, a lack of kindness, and a willingness to cut and run when the going gets tough.

Those are definitely qualities I DO NOT WANT IN A MATE, and neither do I want them in a "Friend".

The catch here is: If he is still in MLC/Depressed/Mentally Screwy, he may follow through with divorce in this state of mind and later come to regret it.

If he does push the divorce through at the earliest opportunity, I will have gone through about six years of emotional turmoil:
Two years of isolated separation, one year of his adultery and emotional abuse while living together, and about two years + of serious emotional distancing and physical/emotional neglect prior to all of that.

Then approximately a year to finalize the divorce, relocate, rehome the animals, and start my new life without him.

Once that happens, I will be 57 and there will be no going back for me.

At that point, there will be nothing left to tie me to him, and if he still thinks I am expendable, as divorcing me demonstrates, then I will remove myself from his life.

On some level I suspect he may just hang this divorce thing over my head indefinitely and never withdraw it. That he will continue to wield it as leverage so he can feel in control, and can keep me on my "best behavior" out of fear.

That also will not happen. After a period of time (to be determined) I will sign and be done.

The ONLY way I will be his "friend" after we divorce is if he comes around enough to make a real effort to make amends, to do right by me, and gives reconciliation his best effort.
If we try, and fail, to make a good M in the end, and decide to divorce, then that's a whole different story.
That would mean he DOES have integrity and the other qualities I'd want in a friend.

So it's not the divorce that's the deciding factor, it's why and how that happens.

Sorry this was long, and if it was a hijack. It is on topic, so maybe that's okay.

In summary:

We should be FRIENDLY. That doesn't mean we are FRIENDS.
I am friendly to my neighbors, smiling and pleasant, chatty when the situation arises, helpful and appreciative, honest and reliable.

I make offers of help, allow them to help me out, make sure they're okay if there is a storm or the power goes out.

But--right now, H and I are not "FRIENDS".


---(G)GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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‘Can We Still Be Friends’

Songwriter; Todd Rundgren

(For me, the best version is sung by Rod Stewart: Note the lyrics towards the end have been altered and added to by Rod Stewart, to suit his situation when he recorded his version in early 1984).

We can't play this game anymore
But can we still be friends?
Things just can't go on like before
But can we still be friends?
We had something to learn
Now it's time for the wheel to turn
Grains of sand, one by one
Before you know it, it’s all gone

Lets admit we made a mistake
But can we still be friends?
Heartbreak's never easy to take
But can we still be friends?
It's a strange, sad affair
Sometimes seems like we just don't care
Don't waste time feeling hurt
We've been through hell, together

Where do we go?

Where do we go from here?

We can’t play this game anymore
But can we still be friends?
Things just can’t go on like before
But can we still be friends?

We awoke from our dream
Things are not what they always seem
Memories linger on
It's like a sweet, sad, old song

Where do we go?
Where do we go from here?
Where do we go from here?

(Refrain: guitar solo by Jeff Beck)

I can’t play this game anymore
Can we still be friends?
Things just can’t go on like before
But I just wanna be friends
I just wanna be, wanna be, wanna be
And now I just wanna be friends

Yes, something I’ve learned
Something I’ve learned
Now can we still be friends?

Let’s admit our mistakes….hmm….now

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I'm a little partial to the James Taylor version.

smile


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Originally Posted By: GoatGal
After a lot of thinking about just this topic, being "Friends" vs. being "Friendly", the above posts have really helped clarify the difference for me, and the importance of the distinction, of getting it right.


I am being friendly to my H at this point.

If I am not, how can he appreciate the changes I've made, and see that I'm a positive addition to his life?
If I am unfriendly, I will come off as cold, unapproachable, angry, and resentful. Or it will suggest that I am avoiding him because the sitch is just too painful for me.
Neither of those projections is something he's likely to want to hang around.
They both say: "You're not wanted."
They elicit guilt, anger, and other negative emotions that our spouses associate with US.

If I am friendly, (like I was when we first met, and as I am around people who enjoy my company), he might see that maybe--just MAYBE---he was incorrect in his assessment that I'm the source of his misery and he's better off without me.

However, we are not "Friends" at this point.
My friends don't avoid me, don't plan to cut me out of their lives. They have my best interests at heart and think of more than just themselves.
They're fun to be with, want to spend time with me for no other reason than we enjoy each other's company.

And I would not keep anyone as a friend who treated me so callously.

No. We are not "Friends" right now.
He is my husband, he is having a real issue in his life, and I am standing by him as long as I can in the hopes that he will get better, that we will get better, and we'll be able to be friends again.

The seeds are there. We were great friends, way back when. We could be again. I am letting him see that as often as I can.

But I don't ask him to hang out, make a fuss on his birthday, call him to shoot the breeze or share my problems.
And he certainly doesn't.

I have told him that if we divorce, that I will NOT be his "Friend".

I don't think he remembers this, so at some point I will revisit it with him.

I plan to never see or speak to him again.
Not to punish him, but because there will be no more room in my life for people who do not add to it in some equitable way.
(Family excluded, but he will no longer be "family" either, by his own choice.)

And-- because I will want to start over, move away from here and all the bad memories, and not subject myself to the ongoing pain of knowing my partner of almost 30 years thinks he's better off without me.

Nope. No can do.
That, for him, is the consequence of divorce, among many others.

Someone who divorces me without valuing me enough to try and salvage our M, who doesn't believe that promises and vows are important enough to make a change, who has no real remorse, and who still thinks only of what he wants, is not someone I want in my life.

Those actions show a lack of integrity, a lack of reliability and inner strength, a lack of kindness, and a willingness to cut and run when the going gets tough.

Those are definitely qualities I DO NOT WANT IN A MATE, and neither do I want them in a "Friend".

The catch here is: If he is still in MLC/Depressed/Mentally Screwy, he may follow through with divorce in this state of mind and later come to regret it.

If he does push the divorce through at the earliest opportunity, I will have gone through about six years of emotional turmoil:
Two years of isolated separation, one year of his adultery and emotional abuse while living together, and about two years + of serious emotional distancing and physical/emotional neglect prior to all of that.

Then approximately a year to finalize the divorce, relocate, rehome the animals, and start my new life without him.

Once that happens, I will be 57 and there will be no going back for me.

At that point, there will be nothing left to tie me to him, and if he still thinks I am expendable, as divorcing me demonstrates, then I will remove myself from his life.

On some level I suspect he may just hang this divorce thing over my head indefinitely and never withdraw it. That he will continue to wield it as leverage so he can feel in control, and can keep me on my "best behavior" out of fear.

That also will not happen. After a period of time (to be determined) I will sign and be done.

The ONLY way I will be his "friend" after we divorce is if he comes around enough to make a real effort to make amends, to do right by me, and gives reconciliation his best effort.
If we try, and fail, to make a good M in the end, and decide to divorce, then that's a whole different story.
That would mean he DOES have integrity and the other qualities I'd want in a friend.

So it's not the divorce that's the deciding factor, it's why and how that happens.

Sorry this was long, and if it was a hijack. It is on topic, so maybe that's okay.

In summary:

We should be FRIENDLY. That doesn't mean we are FRIENDS.
I am friendly to my neighbors, smiling and pleasant, chatty when the situation arises, helpful and appreciative, honest and reliable.

I make offers of help, allow them to help me out, make sure they're okay if there is a storm or the power goes out.

But--right now, H and I are not "FRIENDS".


---(G)GGG



whistle whistle whistle whistle


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Mr. Starsky,

I value your opinion and input on these boards and it is rare that I hear from you about anything I posted.

I hope that means perhaps I don't need as much advice!
(If only because I've been dealing with this longer and once I set my mind to something, I'm like a Terrier.)

But I have to say, when I saw you'd quoted and responded to something I wrote, my heart started to pound.

"Oh crap. He's gonna bring out the dreaded 2 x 4...."

I'm glad to see that's not the case.

Maybe I've got a handle on this after all. smile


---(G)GGG


PS: For the benefit of people like me who tend to interpret things rather literally in these situations, it would be helpful if certain things could be spelled out.

The above thread is a great example.

Also, it was only recently that I discovered I was supposed to move closer to H as he moved closer to me. Seems like a no-brainer, but I can't recall that ever being stated clearly in the books. Prior to that, I was keeping my "friendly but distant/busy GALing" going.

I will try to think of other examples where I got confused. I'll bet others could use some clarification as well.

Thanks!


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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GG:

Your post made me smile. smile

And yeah, I'd say you've obviously picked up a thing or two. smirk


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Tad in no uncertain terms:

It is OK (and better for you IMHO) not to be friends with your wife.

Two quotes for you if this comes up with her:

W- Let's be friends.

Answer #1 - I'm booked solid with friends, but I'll call you when one dies.

Answer #2 - I'm good with friends; let's be enemies.


I do have a question:

Your son why is he telling you this crap? Why aren't you telling him not to feed you this info? Are you pressing him? Like Tad jr. What did you and your mom talk about?

Also a little insight.
Passive Aggressive behaviour. Neither of you said hello, but she blames you for ignoring her. You need that in your life life a poop flavored lollipop.


Last edited by Jack_Three_Beans; 10/24/14 06:15 PM.


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Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

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Mr Beans...

Quote:
poop flavored lollipop


These ^^^ were on sale at Target. Just sayin.... smile


"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter".
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"Might be a good thing to expand on, Mr B. "

Tad knows based on his background. I don't think this subject needs to be talked about to death on his thread.

In any event, it is his choice to live the way he wants to. Life does get easier when you get rid of resentment and hate. Things like that eat away at you. With all of the tragedy that he's experienced, he focuses alot of the emotion towards his W. She's just one piece of his life's troubles that started when he was young.

Tad, if you learn to let that anger part of your life towards your life go, you may be able to start healing the other hurts from your past.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Thanks everyone.

MrBond, I'm trying to let go of the anger. It is easier said than done, but one day, I will get there.

Jack, I'm going to remember "Answer #1." Made me laugh.

To answer the question:

Quote:
Your son why is he telling you this crap? Why aren't you telling him not to feed you this info? Are you pressing him? Like Tad jr. What did you and your mom talk about?


It was more like this:

ME: "Did you have a good time the other night?"

S28: "Yeah it was awesome."

ME: "His band is pretty good."

S28: "Yeah. Not bad."

ME: "Did your mother have a good time?" (Mistake?)

S28: "I think so. She did say that you ignored her all night. She said that a couple times."

ME: "I didn't ignore her. I just have nothing to say."

S28: "I know."

That was pretty much it.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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I tend to relate to starky.

Except me and my h have no reason to have contact or be friends. I will not approach him or say hello at an event at which I see him, I think he's just not worthy of my time. Given all the things he has done. Assulted my son, had at least one ow suspect more.

If he approaches me, I will be civil. That is all. He finds that tough as his friendly model also has rainbows and unicorns. I have treated his family with respect and affection to be treated as someone they never knew.

I don't feel you owe her a true friendship, but if she wanted she could have said hello. I doubt you would have spat on her or been rude. I think she is still looking to play the blame game. Friend ship does take 2 and she doesn't hold up her end, she has no rights to complain in my eyes.


M 46 h54
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Lots of couple do not end up friends. Nor do they even remain in touch there is no shame in that. Db is a choice you can aim for if it feels right for you.


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Quote:
ME: "Did your mother have a good time?" (Mistake?)
I wouldn't call it a mistake. I just wonder why you asked?

I realize you could say it was because she is part of his life and you are just asking about his life and those in it. You could have been doing that. But I wonder if that's what you had in mind? It doesn't come across that way. It comes across as you are still pining away for her and want to know about her etc. Which was it Tad?

Years ago, I finalized my conversation with my son around his mother. When he was little she gave him all kinds of grief about coming over even to get things he needed for school. My ex and her H live three blocks from me. But he wasn't allowed by her to walk over at night, so sometimes he would forget things he needed for school etc. For a long time he would ask me to bring them over on my way home from work etc. I would ask him if he asked his mom. Eventually, I told him I wouldn't ask that any more - he always had asked first. My reason? He didn't need me pointing it out and giving him more grief.

That was years back, Tad. It highlighted the lack of co-parenting (not my choice) and didn't help things. But it also translated into me not asking him anything about his mother or her husband. Fast forward a few years - my son brings up things that puzzle him about his mom. I'll talk about the past, but more as a way to help him see how I handled things. Nothing about the divorce or what led up to it. More about things when he was very little or before he was born. I'll talk about his mom like that, but I don't ask about how she's doing. Not only do I not care, it doesn't help him or me in the least. He'll talk about things when he is ready or if he needs to. Your son will do the same if he wants to. You don't need to ask.

Jack has such a way with words.. The lollipop is a prime example. But I don't see why you would need to respond to her at all if either of those questions came up. A snarky reply is not really needed - not out loud anyway.

All in all, letting go of that anger would free you, Tad. Like so many of us, you are in prison and don't know you have the key. But you do.

While you search for it, it may be helpful to not ask those kinds of questions of the boys. Believe me, they know a lot more than you may give them credit for. If they need help, they'll ask. If you poke like that, they'll figure you're not done and healed. I would.


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Tad, I always say that everyone walks this in their own time and in their own way. But, sometimes you can get stuck.

I agree with my friend AJ. What purpose does it serve to ask questions like that? It doesnt serve you or your son well, right?

For him, it shows him you are still hurting. For you, it can mean hearing something that upsets you.

The truth of it is that it doesnt
really matter if she had a good time or not. It really doesnt or maybe better said, it really shouldnt matter to you.

I get that you still hurt. I am sorry you do. I get that you still cant understand why she did what she did. The thing of it is...you will probably never understand it. For a lot of reasons....mainly that you arent her.

Sometimes we need to let go of the need to understand things. Some things will just never make sense. Like when a child gets cancer. It isnt how things are supposed to happen...yet, they do.

For me the way to forgiveness was acceptance. Didnt mean I had to agree with it. Didnt mean I had to understand it. To me, forgiveness is the letting go of wishing things were different.

Once I was able to accept what was, I was able to forgive. Forgiveness doesn't mean that you deny the other person's responsibility for hurting you, and it doesn't minimize or justify the wrong. You can forgive the person without excusing the act.

But mainly, when you forgive and really let go, it frees you up. It stops weighing you down and sapping your energy.

Let her go, Tad. Forgive her and move forward. It's time.

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Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
W- Let's be friends.

Answer #1 - I'm booked solid with friends, but I'll call you when one dies.

Answer #2 - I'm good with friends; let's be enemies.



Jack, THAT IS AWESOME! I am so going to put that in my pocket. Love it.

AJ, I love reading your posts. What you said to tad... it is reinforcing things you have said to me. I am getting to a place where I am implementing the things you've said. I "get it" and as time passes, things make more sense. Sometimes your guidance will ring a bell at different times. I have been thinking a lot lately about communication with xh about the kids.

Your post to tad really made me think even more about it. Thanks!

(Sorry, tad, for the hijack)

Tad, I feel what you are going through with this. I understand wanting to ask... Sometimes it may just come out. It's like we need to solve this crazy mlc puzzle or something. So many things just don't make sense, so, for me, it is like an insight to see what xh is thinking/feeling. Maybe that will help answer questions or something?

I am much better at not asking those questions now. I had heard xh asking the kids about me and it gave me a sense of power that he was asking about me and I hadn't been asking about him. Once that time of *opportunity* passes and you hadn't inquired, it feels much better. You feel stronger, you get a better perspective- like, what does it matter? Then you realize that you can still carry on without knowing.

Keep your head up, tad.

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Quote:
I am much better at not asking those questions now. I had heard xh asking the kids about me and it gave me a sense of power that he was asking about me and I hadn't been asking about him. Once that time of *opportunity* passes and you hadn't inquired, it feels much better. You feel stronger, you get a better perspective- like, what does it matter? Then you realize that you can still carry on without knowing.


Mighty, I second that!!! (Just because it is happening in my sitch)

The thing is, I find if you are still asking those kinds of questions (even to yourself) than you are wasting precious time that is yours. It is self defeating.

As far as time to "let go" as someone said...I think everyone comes to that point on their own. I know I did.

Tad, you'll get there, but only when YOU want to.


BombOctober 2012-
OW 11/28/12 -H still denies
Separated 11/29/12
Own place 12/12/12
Confessed OW/EA/PA 2/2/13
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Thanks everyone. I'm still here. Have been pretty busy at work. The cooler weather seems to take it's toll on TV stations and keeping them on the air this week has been a challenge. smile Can't wait to see what it is like this winter.

Quote:
I don't feel you owe her a true friendship, but if she wanted she could have said hello. I doubt you would have spat on her or been rude.


Exactly Ggrass.

Quote:
I wouldn't call it a mistake. I just wonder why you asked?

I realize you could say it was because she is part of his life and you are just asking about his life and those in it. You could have been doing that. But I wonder if that's what you had in mind? It doesn't come across that way. It comes across as you are still pining away for her and want to know about her etc. Which was it Tad?


Honestly AJ, I really can't say why I asked. It just came out. Making conversation I guess. Sure, I could have not asked, but it just happened. As for pining, nah. I think I am finally getting to the point where I just don't care. I realized earlier today that I don't even think I thought about her once at all yesterday. Which is good, because she always crosses my mind from time to time throughout the day. COMPLETELY letting go of someone that I've known for 30 years is tough. She is bound to cross my mind from time to time, but yesterday was kind of nice.

Quote:
While you search for it, it may be helpful to not ask those kinds of questions of the boys. Believe me, they know a lot more than you may give them credit for.


Yeah. I'm starting to see this.

Quote:
Sometimes we need to let go of the need to understand things. Some things will just never make sense. Like when a child gets cancer. It isnt how things are supposed to happen...yet, they do.


Agreed. I've always been one to try to find an explanation. I guess in some instances in life, there are no explanations.....

Thanks for the nice words BRNR.

Just a couple of things:

The woman I've been talking to at work has invited me to a "throwback 70's" concert on Sunday afternoon. Not sure if I should go for 2 reasons.

1) I work over-nights. It would be in the middle of my night if I went. (She has the night off.)

2) I like her a lot but......I'm not sure if I want things to progress or atleast progress quickly. I'm pretty sure she likes me. She has told me twice this week that I make the time go by so fast because she enjoys talking to me. She is pretty awesome and the things we have in common....kind of scary. But....we'll see...

I was reading Matt's thread earlier and he was talking about music. Music has always been a HUGE part of my life. Some of you know that I am a fanatic when it comes to the rock group KISS. I've been a fan since I was about 9 years old and have over 30 of their albums. When XW's MLC started, I quit listening to all music. ALL OF IT. I've slowly worked my way back into listening to some of the harder stuff and listening to my KISS albums again. The funny thing is, songs that used to have no meaning for me, now do and songs that did have meaning, now have DIFFERENT meaning to me. Music is a funny thing. I've missed it. Anyways, just sharing.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
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First....you have a record player?!?!?! Lol Awesome. Love Kiss. But that's about as hard as it gets for me lol.

Tad I'm sure no one here doesn't ever expect you ex not to cross ur mind. You have kids that share part of her. That's not exactly what letting go is. Obsessing about her......asking sons about her......pining away for her (just examples here), talking about her constantly......things like that. Letting her go doesn't mean that she will never cross your mind, it just means she crosses it and u move onto ur next thought. Her life and what she does want be near as important to u. You will pass her on the st ANC not miss a beat. You children will mention her and u smile and talk about the next thing. Eventually u will have many days without a thought about her, they get far and few between.
Take it slow with this lady Tad. I would suggest friendship for a long while.
In my opinion, u have llearn about YOU first. Learn to enjoy life Alone then a companion is just an extra bonus. Yes you have been alone but u haven't enjoyed life yet Tad. You are just now starting to get ahead. Do what Tad enjoys. Live Tad!

Hugs

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 10/29/14 09:08 AM.

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I'd be very careful about the woman. What does your therapist say?


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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what he said ^^^^


"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter".
"Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!"
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Quote:
First....you have a record player?!?!?! Lol Awesome.


Haha. No. I used to have a bunch of them on vinyl, but have now got them on CD.

Quote:
Take it slow with this lady Tad. I would suggest friendship for a long while.


Yeah. I will. Going to take it VERY slooooooooooow. However, I really could use a friend so for now, it will be just that. A friendship. I'm not going to rush into anything, but I would like a friend to do things with.

Quote:
I'd be very careful about the woman. What does your therapist say?


The same thing everyone has said really. To take it slow.

And I will.

That's all for now. I have to go before my rats eat all of my dinner....

smile

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
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W files 5/11
D final 10/11
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Journaling:

1 - I've decided not to go to the concert on Sunday with the woman from work. Even though she is nice and super-cool, I need to not rush into anything. I will remain just friends for now and see what happens later on down the road.

2 - S28 informed me that he is moving out next month to move in with his girlfriend. Makes me happy and a little sad, but it is time. 1 down, 3 to go. It will set the rest of us back a little financially, but we'll be ok.

3 - I'm a little down today. I think one of my little ratties is getting close to passing. She just hasn't been the same today. I'm hoping that she is just having a down day, but rats usually don't live more than 18-24 months. She'll be 2 years old on November 16th. The other one that was born a week later seems fine and is still very energetic. They are my little babies. I never thought that I could get so attached to two little rats....

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
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Just more journaling:

After a long search, I've finally found a Rat Rescue organization here in the Phoenix area. So....I've decided as a form of therapy (because I'm sure I'll need it), when my little ratties pass, I will become involved with them in some capacity.

They are looking for donations, volunteers, quarantine homes, adoptive parents and foster homes. I've decided that I will volunteer in any way that I can. I would like to become a foster home, but I'm afraid to since I seem to get too attached. I would permanently adopt a few, but I'm just so afraid to own any more that will just die in a year or two. It is a shame too because they make such awesome pets. I know it is not right to feel this way, but I'm just so afraid. I don't want any more grief. I'm just not sure if I can handle any more. Owning more rats would just set me up for more grief down the line. I'm done with the sadness.

I really hate to say this but, I honestly don't know if I would have taken the two that I currently have if I would have known how attached I would become. I surely didn't plan to. I was never like this before all of the garbage that was dealt to me in the last few years. Yeah, I changed...and not sure if it is for the better.

I'm pretty sure many of you think it is sad and pathetic to feel this way about some animals that most people despise, and the fact that I'm a grown man, but I can't help the way I feel.

Sorry for being ridiculous.......

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
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My animals are truely part of my family. Yes I grieve their passing but I don't dwell on it.
Maybe if it helped try a pet with a longer life span. The best thing I did was adopt an x racing grey hound. He doesn't need heaps of exercise he sleeps about 23.5 hours per day. The other 1/2 hour is running and eating! grin

He's graceful and very affectionate dog, he will throw his head under your hand and follow you while you troll from room to room. He will snuggle and rub his face in your lap. Or a cat or a bird

The grey hounds in au will let your foster a few till you find one you like, or fits your home.


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Tad, becoming attached to our pets is normal. Grieving their passing... normal too. Nothing sad or pathetic about it.

W and I recently said goodbye to our dog of 16 years. It hurts, we cried.

There are many ways to help deal with the pain of the loss. We set up a table with her remains and a few pictures. A memorial. We sometimes still say hi to her when we wake up or come home. We talk about her personality and some of the times we shared together.

One thing I can tell you for sure... I would never trade all the joy and good times she brought to our lives, just to avoid the pain of her passing. I learned when our first dog passed 16 years ago, the pain slowly is replaced with joyful memories.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Hi everyone. Thought I would come here and respond, journal and maybe get a few 2x4s.

smile

Quote:
Maybe if it helped try a pet with a longer life span. The best thing I did was adopt an x racing grey hound.


I would like to get a little dog someday, but I really can't as long as I'm living where I'm living. The rent on them in my apartment is fairly expensive and I just wouldn't really have the room for one.

Quote:
He's graceful and very affectionate dog, he will throw his head under your hand and follow you while you troll from room to room.


My rats actually do this. smile
I usually will let them out of their cage and let them run around for several hours during the day. One of them will actually follow me around the room like a little puppy. The other one will actually seek me out, crawl into my lap and lay her head in my palm when she wants scratched behind her ears. They are by far the smartest and most tame pets that I've ever had.

Quote:
Grieving their passing... normal too. Nothing sad or pathetic about it.


Thanks ForeverYoung.

I hope I won't be in that position anytime soon. They have perked up the last few days. It is just sad watching them get old and feeble. They have actually helped me more through the depression than anything.

Quote:
One thing I can tell you for sure... I would never trade all the joy and good times she brought to our lives, just to avoid the pain of her passing.


Yeah. I know. It just seems like every time I get close to something/someone, I lose them one way or the other. I'm just not sure if I want to set myself up for that when my little girls pass. I'd love to have more, and I probably will someday, but probably not any time soon. They really do make amazing pets. We shall see.

I believe if more people weren't so freaked out by their tails and realized what great pets they make, more people would have them. I was the same way about them until I got the two that I have. I've handled them since they were about the size of my pinky finger and before their eyes were even open every day. It is amazing just how tame a rat can become.

Journaling:

S22 has another show coming up on the 20th. I plan to go. They are actually starting to get noticed by a few good promoters. It is kind of exciting. It does suck though because he plays all of that "death metal" crap and there really isn't a radio station in America that would play them. I've been trying to convince him to look into becoming a studio musician just to have something to fall back on.

I'm beginning to think that I might have an ulcer. I've had some really painful burning in my stomach from time to time. Some days, I'm fine. Other days, it flares up pretty badly.

Now the 2x4s...

My wonderful female friend at work....Man, oh man.

In the 4 years since XW's MLC began, I've casually seen 3 ladies, but they never really amounted to much because I was numb. I was cold as ice and felt nothing. I cared nothing about them and could care less if we continued to see each other or if I never saw them again. Again, I was like stone. I felt absolutely nothing. I wasn't even sure if I would ever feel (or ever wanted to feel) anything again.

That is starting to change towards this one.....It is the first time I have felt anything like this since XW left. It is really nice, but also really scary.

I find myself thinking about her a lot. I only see her at work two days a week, but we have some amazing conversations.

Funny thing is, I haven't asked her out or anything yet, but I kind of think that she digs me too. In the last two weeks she has said things like:

"I always look forward to working with you."

"I like talking to you because we get each other and talk about the same things."

"You always make the time go by so fast." (Has said this multiple times.)

When she found out that my schedule might be changing in a few weeks, she asked what it was going to be and then said:

"Nice. I'll get to see you three days a week."

I REALLY want to ask her out, but know that some on this board think it is a bad idea. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. If I don't, I might end up in a "what might have been" situation. But....if I do, there is always the possibility of being rejected. I wouldn't even know how to go about doing it seeing how I've never really had to ask a girl out since I was 17.

It is weird feeling this way. I haven't felt this way since I met XW. As I said, I find myself thinking about her a lot. It is a crazy-wonderful feeling, but also very scary. To be honest, it scares the crap out of me...I think she feels the same, but wish I could know for sure. Again, scared...

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Do you want to?

Then if the answer is yes, take a risk, who knows it might pay off.


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Tad didn't u say she looked a lot like ur ex? That is what bothers me.
You do deserve to have fun tad but u also are very raw still.

After my divorce, for the longest time I was attracted to men that were bald headed. I had my mind set on that look only....know why? Because my ex was bald headed. Get what I'm saying?

Just make sure u are Attracted to her for the right reasons. I still say friend zone for awhile. Others may give different advice but u are still healing and haven't really found Tad yet. Enjoy life to the fullest Tad. When u can enjoy your time alone, look in the mirror and love the person looking back....that is freedom to me.
Find your freedom and enjoy life.

Hugs,
Renee


_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
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Thanks for the responses.

Quote:
Do you want to?


I really do. It will just depend on the amount of courage that I can work up.

Quote:
Tad didn't u say she looked a lot like ur ex? That is what bothers me.


Yes. To an extent, she does. The more I get to know her though, the less she looks like XW. Is that weird? But yes, she is very petite and has the jet-black hair like ex. She doesn't look a lot like her from the front. It is just mostly when I see her from the back.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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She might say no, she also might be looking at being fired for a long while too.

Just pack up those expectations.


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Well, I asked her a "hypothetical" question about dating people at work. She said.....................

"No."

Oh well.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. She seems like a person that you would be just friends with...right? You've got to start re-building your social circle and this is a good place to start. What do you think?

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Agreed. I will still be friends with her because she is super cool and would still make an awesome friend.

But.....

I need to find a place (besides work and local bars) that I can meet people at.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Just journaling:

I'm doing better except for a few things that still bug me like:

1) I don't believe XW feels that she did anything wrong.
2) She is in la-la-land and I'm still just "here."
3) Starting to get lonely. I want someone to share things with and do things with.
4) Holidays always seem to bring me down. Wish they were over already.
5) Wish I could quit letting her get inside my head.
6) Starting to feel like I may be alone for the rest of my life.
7) My confidence is shot.
8) My boys are all I have. I need adult company. (Even though boys are now.)

Just have felt blah today.

Thanksgiving plans are being made. The boys and I were invited to my aunt's house. (Mom's sister) Two of them are going with me, one will be with XW and one is undecided.

I HATE the fact that my family is split over holidays.

XW and I were both children of divorce. When XW and I were together, we promised ourselves that we would NEVER do this to our kids. Well......here we are.

Tad


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Congratulations Tad!

Believe it or not the frustration and loneliness you're feeling is progress! You're getting there! You're at that point where DAMN IT, THIS JUST ISN'T FAIR! I NEED BETTER THINGS FOR ME!

Then comes the desire to start reaching for it because you truly want it, not because you're forced to do it in one way or another. I know I was so pissed off for the first 3 years that my family had to be divided because of Captain MLc's choices. I was mad because yes, me and my Ex too strived to give our kids what we didn't have, yet what the hell happened? Exactly what we originally didn't want to do!

Sometimes I back slide too Tad! Like Right now, Im really annoyed at the financial inconvenience of divorce! I've got bills to pay, food to put on the table and D12's b day on Thanksgiving Day. I really hate I don't have a partner to help out with finances and to join me in the joy of shopping.

That is annoying me. And it's annoying me because Ex is in la la land, and Im here fighting the dragons of real life while he's on his insane magic carpet ride of identity crisis. He still gets inside my head, but only for a short time! My confidence was shot to hell for the longest time. But slowly but surely it began to get built up again. And my girls and my aunt are all I have. My aunt I haven't seen in 16 years though we talk often. My girls, like your boys are my world,

Im really happy that you can go to your aunt's house for thanksgiving. Me being the outcast due to divorce, I won't ever be able to attend another family thanksgiving or christmas.

Hang in there TAd.... you're gonna make there guy! You will!


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Thanks for checking in Kimmerz!

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Believe it or not the frustration and loneliness you're feeling is progress! You're getting there! You're at that point where DAMN IT, THIS JUST ISN'T FAIR! I NEED BETTER THINGS FOR ME!


Yes, I do need and want better things for me. And, it isn't fair, but not sure if it is progress. It doesn't really feel that way.

Tad


Currently:
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Awww... I know it sure doesn't feel that way. I think we're pretty damn hard on ourselves about what progress really is compared to what we THINK it should be. And remember it's a lot of two steps forward 3 steps back.

Are you dating anyone? Are you interested in dating? Believe it or not getting back in the game (once you truly are ready) really helps you heal even more.

For me it helped validate that I truly am not the succubus woman that MLCER Ex made me out to be!


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Quote:
Are you dating anyone? Are you interested in dating? Believe it or not getting back in the game (once you truly are ready) really helps you heal even more.


Funny that you should ask.....

There is a girl at my work that I'm very interested in. We have tons in common and she is the sweetest little thing. We have amazing conversations. The amount that we have in common is almost scary. Of all the women that I have "dated" or been sort of interested in, I actually feel something for her. I felt absolutely nothing for the others and wondered if I would ever be able to feel anything ever again until I met this one. She is kind of nerdy and introverted, but not so much when I'm around. She even mentioned that she was happy that my schedule was changing so she "could see me three nights a week instead of two." I was pretty sure she liked me too until last week. I mean, I could tell just by body language. (I've studied a little about body language.) She would even hang around for a little bit after she got off work to talk to me. I've watched how she acts around other guys and it is totally different and distant compared to how she talks to me.

But.......

Last week, when I asked her a "hypothetical" question about dating co-workers, she said that she doesn't. She likes to keep those separate. So.....shot down.

I really like her too.

I'm beginning to think that maybe I'm an ugly duckling or maybe something is wrong with me. I know I'm not the best looking guy around, but I have a dazzling personality. smile I've even had guys compliment me on my personality. (Guess that's why I was on the radio for more than two decades.) But...I guess that doesn't matter.

Boo.

Tad


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Tad,

WEll that's a mixed message and a half from this girl! Sounds like you really do have a connection and that she is interested for sure!

Not dating co workers is a smart idea because in the event things go wrong, boy that's going to suck having to be around each other. But......

You know I'd do? I'd ask her out anyway! Do it! I don't know where you work Tad, but if things work out, I guess one of you could request a transfer to a different department???

And you say you don't feel like you're making progress......
LOL, Tad you most definitely are. You are genuinely interested in someone else! Yay!!

That's how it happened to me. I had several men I spoke with, even a friend tried to set me up with someone, and it just wasn't happening. I had decided that It wasn't meant for me to find a new interest and partner and that I may as well go live in the hills of Tibet with the monks. Then I met someone, and boy howdy it was exactly as you've described as it is with this girl you work with.

You are not an ugly ducking..... I've seen your picture!Not an ugly duckling at all! There is nothing wrong with you!

Remember Tad, we're starting all over again. We got used to being married and with the same person. Now we're starting all over.... and it's not easy!

So Mr. Dazzle pants, get to dazzling this lovely woman and see what happens!


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Kimmerz, thank you for the very nice words.

Quote:
WEll that's a mixed message and a half from this girl! Sounds like you really do have a connection and that she is interested for sure!


Yes, lots of mixed messages. She's also said numerous times how I make the time "go by so fast." So, she obviously enjoys being around me.

Quote:
I'd ask her out anyway! Do it! I don't know where you work Tad, but if things work out, I guess one of you could request a transfer to a different department???


Kind of afraid of that. I may, but I'll wait awhile. I don't want to make her uncomfortable or scare her away. As for a transfer, I guess one of us could but we only see each other a few nights a week for just 2 hours at a time anyway. Our shifts overlap. When I start work, she gets off two hours later.

She obviously enjoys my personality and company/conversations. I mean, I wouldn't have even asked her the "hypothetical" question if I wasn't sure. I just don't get it. Unless, I'm just so darn ugly or I'm wondering if she has been hurt really bad in the past. She is 35 and has never been married. She told me she is waiting for the perfect one. I will lay low for a few weeks. Like I said, I don't want to make her uncomfortable. But...I sure do enjoy our time together. She obviously does too.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
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Nice. Tad's interested in somebody smile

I also like this:
Quote:
1) I don't believe XW feels that she did anything wrong.
2) She is in la-la-land and I'm still just "here."
3) Starting to get lonely. I want someone to share things with and do things with.
4) Holidays always seem to bring me down. Wish they were over already.
5) Wish I could quit letting her get inside my head.
6) Starting to feel like I may be alone for the rest of my life.
7) My confidence is shot.
8) My boys are all I have. I need adult company. (Even though boys are now.)
Know why? Because you're able to articulate it. It seems like just yesterday when you came here, Tad. And you could articulate anything at all smile

Something to consider - fairness. What's that mean and why do you get to judge what it is when you don't know everything? smile

How is the job going, Tad? Seems like you really like it. Is that the case?

How is everything else going? Financially? Personally?

The holidays can be rough. I recently lost my father (we were close) and the remainder of family is in California. I am fortunate to have a lot of great friends in this area. It means a lot to me. But I don't view the holidays as a time to get down. I view it as a time to remember. I remember many things at this time of year. Very warm and positive memories.

I do think that it's good that you're feeling lonely, Tad. That can be a great motivator for you to change. smile

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Hey AJM ... so sorry to hear about your loss and that the remainder of the family is away. That makes it hard.

Now see, Tad is making progress! Being Lonely motivated me to keep moving forward, but to move forward in a very educated manner.

I don't advise hump and dumps right out of the divorce shoot.

Im just saying!!


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So Tad.... when is your next shift with this lovely little gal?

She sounds like a keeper to me! Yay!


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Thanks AJ and Kimmerz.

AJ, nice to see you haven't given up on me yet. smile

Quote:
Something to consider - fairness. What's that mean and why do you get to judge what it is when you don't know everything?


Not sure what you really mean or I'm just not sure how to answer...

Quote:
How is the job going, Tad? Seems like you really like it. Is that the case?


Yes, I do like it. There is already talk of moving me up. It's just talk right now, but we'll see. Also, the perks at this place are unbelievable.

Things aren't what I'd like them to be financially yet, but things are better than they were.

Personally? I'm starting to get lonely and want someone to share things with. I'm sort of getting googley-eyed over a girl I work with...

I'm really sorry about your dad.

Kimmerz...................

I will see the "lovely little gal" tomorrow (Sunday) night when I get to work. It's funny, I look forward to seeing her at work more than I look forward to my weekends.

Quote:
She sounds like a keeper to me! Yay!


Me too, but there's the work thing.....

So Kimmerz, maybe you can shed some light since you are a member of the female club: What do the mixed signals mean???? I mean, I'm almost certain that she likes me and enjoys spending time with me, I mean, it's obvious, but won't date anybody she works with.

A guy that I work with told me that he can tell she likes talking to me and talks to me more than the others. He says that she'll only talk about work stuff with the other guys we work with.

What gives?

I'm more confused than a baby in a topless bar.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
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W files 5/11
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Morning Tad,

LOL that's too funny, confused as a baby in a topless bar!

Honestly Tad, I really don't know what those mixed signals mean!! Im a little stumped myself too! My first instinct would be that maybe she's playing hard to get... but then again I may be wrong! Maybe she just said something she really didn't mean because she's googlie eyed over you too... you know the silliest things can still come out of your mouth even when you're an adult and seriously twitterpated!

Yep, you're really crushing on this girl I can tell! I really think you should ask her to go do something fun together. Something you both enjoy, then that way it may not seem like a huge official "date" to her????

Or you could just be bold and tell her right out " I know you said you don't want to date co workers, but I really wish you'd change your mind on that! Because I really like you and I'd like to spend more time getting to know you better."

That will make her think twice.... oh ya it will. If she clams up after a statement like that and how she's acting now, I truly will be stumped.

Good luck!!


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Thx Kimmerz.

Yes, I'm crushing on her pretty bad. I may still ask her to go do something fun, but I may wait a few weeks. Don't want to seem desperate, too pushy or scare her away....

Quote:
My first instinct would be that maybe she's playing hard to get...


Yeah. I just don't know. Why do girls do that????

I'm still a little curious as to why she acts the way she does and then says she doesn't date coworkers....Like I said, I'm pretty sure she likes me.

Tad


Currently:
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Tad, I have no idea why girls do that. Perhaps to have a sense of control? Perhaps the dangling the carrot on the end of a stick theory?

I never did play hard to get. Either I was interested or I wasn't. So I guess Im not the girls to ask! Im sorry!

Kimmerz


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Ok. Thanks Kimmerz.

Saw her again tonight. Of course she came over to my work station and hung out for a while. She enjoys talking to me.

It's weird though. I've got a crush on her, she doesn't date coworkers, but she is the one that seeks ME out....like a magnet.

Maybe I'm just a good talker??? Don't know.

Tomorrow should be fun....we share the same work station.

Bwahahaha!

Tad


Currently:
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Tad does she talk about other guys with u? Does she get advice from you? Anything like that? Please be careful and try not to get to close until u figure out if she is in the "friend zone". She may be attracted to u OR she may just like hanging with u as a friend. Regardless if she gets to really liking u, she will break her own rule. So kinda just sit back and let her come to u, don't act as interested and she if she comes closer.

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 11/17/14 12:12 PM.

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Quote:
Tad does she talk about other guys with u? Does she get advice from you?


Good question. Actually, we've talked about EVERYTHING EXCEPT guys:

Movies
Things we did over our weekends
Books
Good places to eat
Rollercoasters
Our job
Her aunt's illness
A bad motorcycle accident that her ex-boyfriend in college had
My sitch
A charity event that she was involved in
Music
Our grandmothers
Concerts
Astronomy
New York city (where she's from)
Why she's not married (hasn't found mr. perfect)
TV shows
Kids (has no desire to have any but if it happens, it happens)
My rats
Her career (She's a brain and has degrees in math,science,meteorology)
My radio career
Her mom and dad
Jewelry (She buys a lot of it)
The Beatles (She's a Beatles freak, but too young to remember them....she's kind of a throwback)
Our upcoming weekend plans
Places we'd like to visit
My son's band
Chocolate

...and the list goes on.

Like I said, no mention of guys, but we've talked about EVERYTHING else. She IS single though because I asked her friend who we work with about it. As I mentioned before, she is usually the one who seeks me out to talk to me.

As for advice, she hasn't asked me for any.

She looked very pretty tonight. (Just sayin')

Quote:
Regardless if she gets to really liking u, she will break her own rule.


Haha. That's what I'm hoping for.

Quote:
So kinda just sit back and let her come to u, don't act as interested and she if she comes closer.


Yeah. That's the plan. Just going to be myself like I have been and see what happens.

This is all just so weird for me. I haven't been "in the game" since I was 17.

You women sure are fascinating creatures. smile

Tad


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Fascinating creatures lol as well are u men lol,
Well friendship is always good, just go slow as u said.
Yeah dating again is def something I never planned at this age as well.
Tad u are stilll healing and it's so easy when ur lonely to fall for someone. That is why I say please be careful, no expectations. I dated way too early because I was lonely and fell for someone I normally wouldn't have chosen. It didn't end well and I went thru hurt again. I learned my lesson the hard way. I wasn't ready to date.
Today I am enjoying life and the next guy will be different, he won't be someone to just fill a void. I won't settle again.
I have learned, still learning, to be happy alone, a partner will now be a added bonus. Do I have bad days, sure, but those are getting better and I have learned coping skills. I am in a much much better place though.
Tad I want u to get there. You need to get there actually before u go looking for mrs. Right. Have fun but please take care of Tad right now.

Hugs

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 11/17/14 02:58 PM.

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Renee, I'm glad to hear you are doing better!!!!

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Dumb question.... how do you know if you've chosen someone to just fill a void? Does that mean you put up with too much crap?


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Kimmerz I think if you're asking the question, you already have the answer.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

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Hey, Tad!

I didn't mean to ignore your comment on my thread, I'm just getting around to posting now.

You mentioned the loneliness you feel now that your boys are older and you're looking at all those holidays and events on your own.

Others have stated that it means you're getting through this--in the sense that you no longer feel like the "stone" you described before.

You're backing to "feeling" something--like loneliness--and that feeling is healthy and appropriate.
Your divorce was final three years ago, if I'm reading it right.

To me that sounds like plenty of time to consider dipping your big toe in the dating pool!

This girl at work does sound interesting. If I could give you any advice, it would be not to get too attached just yet.

It could be that she is just one of the "friendly" types (like me, so that's where I'm coming from) who finds you fun and engaging and chatting with you is a great way to make the time at work more pleasant.
She may have made that comment about not dating co-workers to make it clear that although she really does like you, she is not going to date you.

And that's OK. You know why?
Because she's an attractive, sweet girl who is sharing moments with you, even if those moments aren't ever going to become sexual.
For all you know, she likes girls. smile

If could be that she would be the same if you were female and just hit it off.
Sometimes us friendly types might come off like we're flirting when we're really just enthusiastic about the people we're with.

So I figured I'd throw that out there.
---------------------------------------------------------------
That said, if you can feel her out a bit more, go ahead and ask her out, but in DBing fashion:
WITH NO EXPECTATIONS.

And be prepared to do a classy face-saving maneuver if she says "Thanks, but no thanks." Let her know that you really enjoy her company either way.
No harm, no foul, no pressure, it's ALL GOOD, baby!

Be cool, and don't let a negative reply discourage you. She may turn out to be a great friend who has another great friend who would be right for you!
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It pays to know eligible people of both genders. If you think they're great, chances are, they know other great people they can introduce you to!

Who knows? She might break her "no dating co-workers" rule if you play your cards right.

I know women value men who are confident, and those they feel will protect and provide for them.
If you are well-groomed and put together, with a great personality, decent attire, a sense of humor, are humble and well-spoken, good at your job, and physically take good care of yourself, radiating a sense of health and vitality, that's really what women go for in the long term.

They say, "There's Mr. Right, and Mr. Right Now".
You let the pretty hunks work on being "Mr. Right Now" while you work your magic with all the things you've learned to show women that you can be "Mr. Right".

(And "Right Here, In Front of Your Nose" doesn't hurt any. smile )

Best of luck, and keep us posted!

---(G)GGG




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Thanks Renee.

Yes, I'm going to go slow. As much as I think of this girl, I still do not want to rush anything. Just going to concentrate on a friendship for the time being.

Quote:
You're backing to "feeling" something--like loneliness--and that feeling is healthy and appropriate.
Your divorce was final three years ago, if I'm reading it right.


I hope so. I hope it means that things are getting better....I think I am.

As for the girl at work...I'm going to take it slow. I'm just going to be a friend for now. Like you said, I may have to just feel her out a bit more. Going to see if she'll break her "no dating coworkers" rule.

I really want to post more, but I'm very tired. It's been a busy week.

Tad


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Hey everyone.

Just checking in.

Still continue to talk to the girl at work. Just being a friend right now. She still seeks me out and we have good conversation.

Tonight, S22's band is performing. I will be there and so will XW. I'll be perfectly content if it goes like the last one. She doesn't talk to me and I don't talk to her. We'll see...

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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So sorry to hear of yor loss AJM. My prayers are with you.

Hey Braveheart! How are you? Yes I am doing much better, although the happy couple is still trying to torment me. Won't even get into that story. Let just say they think they own this town and if I am seen out, it must be because I am following them. Lol

Kim, I agree with Jack. If u have to ask then u already know. Yes a lot of crap I normally would never put up with. Kinda like the last yr or so of my marriage. When one person us doing all the giving, all the work.....well "here's your sign" as the say. I mean why else would u put up with it?
Love is so often confused with loneliness. I don't want to lose him, so I must love him.......right? WRONG!!!!!

Tad stop worrying about ur physco ex and enjoy your sons show. And please, if she speaks......please smile (yes force it), and say hey and move on. wink

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 11/21/14 10:00 AM.

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Thanks Renee.

Journaling/thinking out loud....

I went to S22's show. She didn't speak to me and I didn't speak to her. It was pretty much like the last show, but slightly different:

Last time: She and her friend were right up on the stage. Right up front taking pictures, laughing, having a good time.

This time: She was supposed to have 4 or 5 friends come with her. None of them showed and she hung out quietly towards the back. She left immediately once his show was over.

I realized something when I saw her: I NO LONGER KNOW HER. She used to be my life and I knew her better than anyone. Now, I DON'T KNOW HER AT ALL. It actually makes me kind of sad. There was a time when she thought the world of me. Now, she despises me. Still can't help but wonder WTF happened sometimes.

My ratties don't seem to be doing very well. They are getting pretty feeble. I just hope that when it comes time, they go quickly and peacefully without suffering. I'm sure going to miss them. Believe it or not, they have helped me more than some people could ever understand. Just wish their little lifespans weren't so short. They are such loving little creatures that really do like to be around people.

As for me, I'm doing ok I think. There are times though that I get hit with bouts of severe sadness right out of the blue. (Having one now which is why I am here posting.) They usually come once or twice a week but don't last very long, usually only about 2-3 hours. I'm not even sure why, but they usually have something to do with my life/marriage/loneliness/my ratties/holidays/the way things SHOULD be...

S19,S22 and S24 are going with me to my aunt's house for Thanksgiving. S28 will be spending it with XW. I guess 3 out of 4 isn't bad.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Hey Tad,

I know that feeling all too well. I know that I've said many times here that I know my XH so well... but then again I need to remind myself that's the old XH. I don't know him at all anymore.

The exact same thing hit me yesterday as he pulled up in the driveway to get D12. Here is a man that 4 years ago used to live here, pull into this driveway and walk through that front door every day. Now it feels like he's a man that I once knew very well but see from time to time and just exchange kid info with. And once again, how did we get from there to here? And yes it really is sad!

I too would move ( still do but far and few between now) move through waves of sadness a few times a week over such things, basically the acceptance of it all and how things are now! And yes Tad, it is sad! But it is what it is. And was you allow yourself to mourn the changes, but keeping putting one foot in front of the other, you are moving forward.

Be glad the XW stayed her distance. I've been through several concerts and an 8th grade graduation where that happened with me and I was happy about it! Then I've been to sporting events for d15 where he was talking to me about he and OW moving and needing to downsize..... WTF? Completely oblivious to the fact that he left me for this woman yet wants to talk to me about them together like a friend???

Yep keep the distance Tad, yet forgive them. For they not know what they do!

Kim


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Quote:
And once again, how did we get from there to here? And yes it really is sad!


Amen.

Our kids are pretty much grown so we don't even have to communicate about them. We don't talk at all. Kind of sad when you realize that yes, we were married, but also very best friends.

Quote:
Completely oblivious to the fact that he left me for this woman yet wants to talk to me about them together like a friend???


Well, as I said, we don't talk, but she does talk about OM a lot to our boys. They could care less. She keeps trying to force him on them like it is no big deal. Doesn't she realize that what she did was wrong? Doubtful.

S19 told me today that she practically BEGGED him to go to her place for Thanksgiving. He is spending it with me. I shouldn't feel bad for her but I do.

You and I are on a similar timeframe. Last month was 4 years since bomb drop.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Wow Tad I didn't even realize we were on a similar time frame!

I just realized that our Divorce was final in 5/12 and he married OW 6/2014.

I know I've really moved on because I really had to think about the dates in which the divorce was file, and when it was finalized. When a year or so ago I could've told you at the drop of a hat. I used to mark my progress by how far I had come by bomb date, and divorce filing, and divorce finality.

Now it's just one big jumbled mess. I do know that I did hear that it would take one year for each 5 you were together to really get over the ordeal. WE were together 20 years, which would make that time to get through it a total of 5. And that's about right. 4 years into this and Im feeling pretty darn good about myself.


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Yeah it does get better with time.

My D was final 10/11
She was engaged 06/12 and married 06/13.

I won't say that I'm feeling good yet, but I am feeling better.

tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,
I'm very glad to see that you went to your son's concert. Did you have a good time? It's true, the more you detach, the more you will see things more clearly when it comes to the xw. She's a stranger to you now because her behavior is not the same as it once was. Her personality has changed quite a bit and no one knows if she'll return to her "old" self once she's fully baked, if ever.

I'm very happy to read that you are going somewhere for Thanksgiving this year. It's going to be great and I want you and your family to enjoy the day. You have something to look forward to this week.

I'm sorry about your little ratties. They've been loved unconditionally and they have had a wonderful friend in you.

I have seen some really good progress in moving forward. I think your job has been a God send for you and you've got something else to think about, new people to associate with and a paycheck coming in. Keep up the good work!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Thanks Job.

Quote:
I'm very glad to see that you went to your son's concert. Did you have a good time? It's true, the more you detach, the more you will see things more clearly when it comes to the xw. She's a stranger to you now because her behavior is not the same as it once was. Her personality has changed quite a bit and no one knows if she'll return to her "old" self once she's fully baked, if ever.


I did have a good time. He's such a rock star. I wish everyone on this board could see him. He really plays a mean guitar.

Since you mentioned XW possibly returning to "old" self, I'm going to ask a question that I've been avoiding because I didn't want people here to think that I was holding onto hope because I certainly am not. It is just something that I've wondered. Here it goes: My XW divorced me and remarried. Let's say she does wake up. What happens then? Will I ever know? What about OM? Will she try to correct her mistakes or just be stuck in an unhappy marriage? I've never heard of anyone waking up after remarrying. That is why I asked.

Quote:
I'm very happy to read that you are going somewhere for Thanksgiving this year. It's going to be great and I want you and your family to enjoy the day. You have something to look forward to this week.


Yes it will be fun. 3 of my boys are going with me. The oldest will be with XW.

Quote:
I'm sorry about your little ratties. They've been loved unconditionally and they have had a wonderful friend in you.


Thank you. I love them so much. I know it is hard for many to believe, but they have helped me so much during this mess. I can't explain it, but they have.

Quote:
I think your job has been a God send for you and you've got something else to think about, new people to associate with and a paycheck coming in.


THAT is an under-statement. Not sure what I would have done without this job. It has helped more than just financially. Thanks for checking in.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,
I'm certainly not going to hand out 2X4's for your questions about Rip Van Winkle waking up. These are questions that we all have asked ourselves and the best answer that I can give you is that no one knows what she'll do if she wakes up.

Here are some scenarios that I've witnessed over the years:

Some remain in the marriage that they took on while in MLC. Whether it's happy or not, to save face, they'll put their best foot forward. Some will divorce, but the lbs may have already moved on and met someone else and will not want to reconcile. I have seen 5 couples marry others, divorce others and reunite w/their original spouses. I know of one man who married the ow and after 8 years woke up, divorced the ow, and tried for the next 10 years to reconcile w/his former wife. She didn't want him back and to the day he died, he regretted everything he had done to her and his family during his mlc. He died a broken man.

Some will want to talk to the lbs about what happened and will even apologize and try to make amends to the spouse and children. Again, it may be too late to mend the fences and others may opt to try again. It all depends on the parties involved.

I do think that if she does wake up, you and your sons will notice a difference in her...but time will tell as to whether she likes staying in her rabbit hole or wants to come out into the daylight.

No one knows what your xw will do. The future is hidden from us and that's why we need to live in the present. Continue to take it one day at a time.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Tad thanks for asking that question!

I too have very much wondered, what if XH ever truly woke up to the person he once was?

I figured with all the people involved in MLC, either they would just carry on with their life they've created and silently suffer quiet desperation of deep regret of their choices. Or really wake up and divorce the OP, and try to win back the old spouse, which may or may not work.

Or just carry on with their life and make ammends for their choices and maybe start to become true friends with their first spouses.

Life changes with every breath we take. All I know to do and want to do is just live it the best I can!


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Thanks Job and Kimmerz.

Quote:
I have seen 5 couples marry others, divorce others and reunite w/their original spouses.


Wow. That actually seems like a lot. I know of one couple that that has happened to. I thought it was fairly rare.

Quote:
I do think that if she does wake up, you and your sons will notice a difference in her...but time will tell as to whether she likes staying in her rabbit hole or wants to come out into the daylight.


Well, I don't think she is "waking up" yet, but she has seemed to have settled down a bit. The boys tell me that she isn't bad-mouthing me much anymore like she was doing when she was a ball of anger. She seems to want to get a little closer to the boys as well. She's still not the amazing mother that she was, but she's not as "invisible" as she was when it was all about her. Like I said, I don't think she is "waking up" just yet, but she seems to have settled down....or maybe she is just starting to realize some things. Who knows.....

Quote:
I figured with all the people involved in MLC, either they would just carry on with their life they've created and silently suffer quiet desperation of deep regret of their choices. Or really wake up and divorce the OP, and try to win back the old spouse, which may or may not work.


Yeah, that's a tough call. My XW was never one to admit mistakes, so who knows. Time will tell I guess.

UPDATE ON GIRL AT WORK:

This is weird. As you know, I've posted on this board how I was actually starting to "feel" again and have developed a little bit of feelings for this girl that I work with.

Now the weird part: A few days ago, those feelings vanished. They were just gone and they stayed gone for about two days. I mean, I was back to being numb again. It's almost as if a switch was flipped. Absolutely nothing there. Then yesterday, I was feeling again. The feelings are back. Is that weird? Am I that messed up? I can't help but wonder if I'm just emotionally "broken."

Speaking of the girl at work, we did not sit at the same work station tonight, but we did spend the last two hours talking. She sent an instant message to me and we spent two hours talking about relationships and what should and shouldn't happen in a relationship. We talked about my X and her X. We talked about people being faithful to one another. Sometimes, I wonder that maybe she likes me, but is feeling me out to see what kind of person I am. She told me tonight that I was a very good friend. Time marches on...........

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Hey Tad, just roll with it.

As it turns out I had one "transitional" friendship with a person about a year after my divorce. I really liked the guy and hoped we could date. But as it turns out he was dating someone else! I was pretty miffed because as good as friends as we were becoming he didn't tell me!

We had the same conversations and I really thought he'd be a great boyfriend. But then I just had this odd feeling something wasn't right. Sure enough I found him on another dating website other than the one we met on, and his profile and information was quite a bit different than what I had learned about him. I didn't like that.

So we basically just lost contact with eachother. I hope he's doing great, but something told me to just move on from that.

But just having a friend to talk to about everything really helped me! And I think it's doing the same for you.

I can tell you that me having to work has really helped me get through this time in my life. Yes there were times I really did need to hide and lick my wounds and wish I could've, but I couldn't.

And the feelings coming and going... Tad that's ok! You're heart is finally starting to mend! I remember feeling the same way on and off with the guy I just told you about. Any guy I talked to seemed ok, but I just wasn't interested. I too had wondered if I was numb.

Then I met my now boyfriend.... oh holy cow! Believe me, when it hits, you will know with every fiber of your being! And it will happen Tad!

Kim


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Thanks Kimmerz.

I will roll with it like you said. It just kind of worries me a little. Sometimes I feel like there is ice water running through my veins. It's just really weird to start developing "feelings" for someone and then just have those feelings vanish for a few days and THEN come back. I guess feeling something some of the time is better than feeling nothing all of the time. I felt nothing for a long, long time. When I met this girl at work, I liked the "feelings" that I was having. Then, when they disappeared for a few days, it made me wonder a little. Wondered if I was just going to be permanently damaged. Maybe like you said, my heart is starting to mend. I hope so.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,
Take each day as it comes and roll with it. Maybe your heart was putting the brakes on for a bit because you were going a bit fast? Whatever the reason for the change in feelings, it doesn't mean you are damaged for life. Your heart and soul are still mending. When the time is right, someone will cross our path and you will know that she's the one. It happens when you least expect it, i.e., not when you are looking for it.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hey Tad,
I wanted to share something with you. I've noticed that during the first 6 months of my relationship with my boyfriend I started to do the same thing. I would just stop feeling anything, and I was numb! It scared me! I couldn't understand how I could feel crazy about him one minute then literally detached another.

Well my dear Tad, that was my emotional baggage from the divorce starting to get unpacked.

The second time around really is a journey Tad. And the fact that you're acknowledging what you're feeling and questioning it means you're on the right track! You're aware of how your emotions are changing. I would encourage you to just acknowledge how you feel, and as time goes on try to dive a little deeper into maybe why you feel that way.

I've strived to do all those things with myself the past year and a half and have learned so much about all this baggage I had, and that I had to deal with!

My biggest issue has been anger. I do believe I have my angries out now.


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I agree with Kimmerz and have had a similar experience. Stay the course...


AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
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Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Thank you Job, Kimmerz and AJ.

I will stay the course.

My feelings are back. Haha.

The wonderful female friend and I continue to have some great conversations and are actually starting to become good friends. That is all I'm going to strive for at the moment. If things don't go any further, I'm fine with that. Atleast I'll have a good friend.

She is amazing though. The amount of things we have in common...pretty uncanny.

smile

I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving.

Mine will not be anything near like the celebrations that we've had in the past, but it will be nice. I'll make the most of it.

Take care.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving or atleast tried to. Mine was the best one I've had since XW left.

Journaling:

I've had a little anxiety the past few days. For once it doesn't have to do with XW. I'm pretty sure it is related to my little ratties. They are both two years old now which is getting up in age for rats. One of them has sort of taken a turn since Wednesday. I'm keeping a close eye on her. Really bums me out.

I "forced" myself to go out Tuesday night. I really had to make myself go. I went alone to a local sports bar down the road from my house. It really sucked going alone, but once I got there, it wasn't too bad. I'm going to try to go again next week. Even if it is for an hour, I really need to get out.

I'm dreaming again. I've been having weird dreams that my teeth are falling out. The last time I had these dreams was around the time that XW moved out so I'm sure they mean something. When she moved out, I had them every night for a couple of months. Then they went away until this week. Twice this week I had dreams where my teeth were falling out or very loose.

I get to see my "friend" here at work again in a couple of days. I'm letting her borrow some of my music. She really digs the old Motown stuff like I do and I just happen to have every Motown single that was ever released from 1959-1971. I'm also letting her borrow one of my Temptations box sets. XW never could understand my love for the older/soulful stuff. This girl "gets it."

Anyways, that's all for now.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,
I'm glad you had a nice Thanksgiving. It's been a long time coming for you.

I'm sorry to hear that your little ratties are aging quickly and may be gone soon. They've been a lot of company to you and you've loved them unconditionally. They've had a good "dad".

I'm proud of you! You actually pushed yourself out the door and went to the local sports bar. There's nothing wrong in going out alone. I hope you'll try it again and eventually this will become easier for you.

You and your co-worker have a lot in common. Music is a great connection for many and I'm glad you both can share your love of music. Motown had some great music during that time period.

Tad, it took you a while, but you've turned the corner and are progressing very well. Keep up the good work!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Yay, Tad!! Good on you for getting out. It will get easier and if you go to the same place, there will be regulars that you can befriend, Im sure.

Sorry about your pets. It's tough when they get old, isnt it? I kind of feel like they were here for a reason, to get you through these last couple of years.

Maybe if you look at it that way, it will make things easier.

I love Motown...nice of you to lend her that stuff.

I wouldnt worry about the dreams. They happen.

Just keep going, T. You are going to be ok.

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Hey Tad,
I once read that when we dream of our teeth falling out that represents change in our lives!

Given when you had these dreams, I do say there's been absolute change in your your life at that time!

I too have dreams like that, and I hate it. I wake up and check my mouth just to make sure they're all still there.


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Friends are always good to have, Tad. Glad you found somebody so into the same things. I bet there's more of those smile

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Mine will not be anything near like the celebrations that we've had in the past, but it will be nice. I'll make the most of it.
I agree with Job. You turned that corner and that's a good thing. While it may not be a hallmark holiday, it is yours and you did your way (queue the song by Old Blue Eyes?)

smile

AJ


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Sounds good, tad. Just make sure you're keeping up with regular brushing/flossing. grin


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

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Thanks Job, Kimmerz, UR, AJ and FY.

It has been a bad few days.

I'm going in to have a tooth pulled next week. No, not a dream. Real life. smile

Had an interesting conversation with S28 yesterday. He informed me that XW always asks questions about me and gets really ticked if he doesn't answer her. He said that she gets really upset over the smallest things. He told me that she is not getting along with her "stepson" and that "stepson" is always complaining about her drinking. I'm convinced that she is an alcoholic and hearing this makes me more convinced. S28 says that XW only talks about me when not around OM. Of course, this doesn't surprise me because I suspect that he has been lied to more than me.

One of my rats is really sick. I'm not sure if she is dying from old age or just has a respiratory infection. I started her on antibiotics this afternoon. If I don't see an improvement soon, I may have to put her to sleep. I've already been real upset over this. Can't stand the thought.

My lady friend at work continues to chat with me all the time. It's obvious she enjoys my company. She let me borrow a "Soul Train" dvd that was filmed in the 70's. It's got a bunch of stuff on there from Barry White, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson...all the stuff I like. I'm going to watch it soon. Just haven't got around to it because of my little sick furbaby.

frown

I was planning on going out again tonight, but didn't because of my rat and my toothache. Can't wait to get it pulled.

Please send good thoughts my ratty's way.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,

I am not surprised that the MLCer is looking at your way to see if you're doing better than her. That is how MLcers roll on the merry-go-round ride.

Prayers for your rattie.

You are doing so well with your progress and growth. We can see that you're getting out more and more. That's a very GOOD thing, Tad. Keep it up.

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Originally Posted By: tadpole1025
Had an interesting conversation with S28 yesterday. He informed me that XW always asks questions about me and gets really ticked if he doesn't answer her. He said that she gets really upset over the smallest things. He told me that she is not getting along with her "stepson" and that "stepson" is always complaining about her drinking. I'm convinced that she is an alcoholic and hearing this makes me more convinced. S28 says that XW only talks about me when not around OM. Of course, this doesn't surprise me because I suspect that he has been lied to more than me.

Tad, Tad, Tad .....

How many times have we told you to stop trying to figure her out? You really should consider not having these kind of conversations with your sons.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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Thanks Wonka and Drew.

Quote:
How many times have we told you to stop trying to figure her out?


Not really trying to figure her out man. I KNOW she's nuts.

Quote:
You are doing so well with your progress and growth.


I thought so too until this week. See below:

Blathering....

I feel like I am ten years old again. When I was ten, the dog that we had since I was baby died. I cried and cried, but tried to hide it because my stepdad kept calling me a p*ssy for crying over a dog. I never let myself get close to another animal until I got my two little rat girls. Now that one of them is sick, I've had a pretty rough week. Maybe I really am a p*ssy....My counselor told me a few weeks back that maybe I have PTSD. Maybe I do. I don't know. I mean, is it normal for a grown man to be this upset about a rat???

The sad thing is, I've known that this was going to happen someday and have tried to prepare myself for it. I guess I didn't prepare enough.

I started her on antiobiotics last night and with the exception of a really bad episode this afternoon, she is doing a little better. Thought about having her put to sleep this afternoon, but couldn't bring myself to do it.

I know this is a divorce/marriage board and maybe I shouldn't be posting this stuff here, but I really have no other outlet.

I'm just so tired of all the loss/death. Seems like that is all my life has been....especially the last few years.

Yesterday was 4 years since XW left.

My grandmother used to tell me that I was the most sentimental person that she ever knew. I used to think that maybe that was a good thing, but now I'm not so sure.

I feel pretty pathetic and sad.

Sorry for the rant.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Tad,

Having those emotions tells you that you're alive and that your heart's open. A closed heart is a dark person. You are shining with a lot of Light and Love. That's a wonderful trait to have.

Yeah, it is not easy to lose our furbabies. I had to put two of my dogs to sleep at separate occasions and I was devastated for a while. Now, I look back on them with fondness and have nothing but positive memories of them.


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No Tad its not a weakness, you're NOT pathetic nor sad (in the way you mean people perceive you)

And this is just fine as a place to get the support you need.

I too am sorry for the difficulties your pet and you are going through.

Now the wife info from the son.

Stop it. Stop it, it hampers you. Ask you son to stop supplying this type of info about her and if your asking for it, be the one to stop. You don't stop thinking about a person over night, you do it with practice and time. You will not quit smoking if you keep grabbing a cigarette when offered or you ask for one.



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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Thanks Wonka and Jack. Thank you much.

Rough day today.

Went to put my little girl in a box to take her to get put to sleep today. She jumped out, grabbed a hold of my arm and hopped right up on my shoulder. She then started "chattering" and "bruxing" like rats do when they are happy and content. So....she is still here with me. I've been feeding her yogurt and Ensure and she seems to have perked up a bit. Man, I was a mess earlier. These little rats are actually my best friends.

Will probably never own anymore pets after these are gone. I get so attached and as I've mentioned before, my whole attitude towards animals has strangely changed since the whole MLC mess. I can't really explain it. I was never much of an animal person before all of this. Now, I have nothing but compassion for them....even animals that I never liked...like rats. I used to be disgusted by them.

It's funny how an event can change somebody. I grew up around guns. My grandfather was a sniper in the Army and since he and my grandmother raised me for a lot of my childhood, I learned to hunt and fish and would go with him all of the time. Thanks to my grandfather, I used to be an excellent shot and could hit just about anything running or flying. I feel terrible for the animals that I killed when I was young. I'll never hunt or fish again. Like I said, it's weird. I know.

XW moved out on my son's 16th birthday weekend. That son turned 20 today. Yeah, 20. Four years. Even though I've come a very long way, I still sometimes feel like an emotional mess and wish I was further along.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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Don't know where my post went. I was telling u that you didn't sound pathetic and wasn't a sissy. You father was wrong to do that to you. Strikes a chord with me cause ex has always done that to our son.
It's ok to feel compassion Tad, ur means u are alive.
Tad it takes awhile to get thru this but you are better and will continue to be.
Wow systems like four yrs. ago was just yesterday. I remember when u joined, I was still a hot mes. We both have come a long way.
It will happen, keep pushing.


_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
D:12/8/08
M:Different 26 yr. old 7/09.
Newborn 4/10
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Don't know where my post went. I was telling u that you didn't sound pathetic and wasn't a sissy. You father was wrong to do that to you. Strikes a chord with me cause ex has always done that to our son.
It's ok to feel compassion Tad, ur means u are alive.
Tad it takes awhile to get thru this but you are better and will continue to be.
Wow seems like four yrs. ago was just yesterday. I remember when u joined, I was still a hot mes. We both have come a long way.
It will happen, keep pushing.

Last edited by sunshinelewis; 12/06/14 08:40 AM.

_________________________________________
M:42
H:40
S:18
M:20yrs/together 21yrs
Bomb:9/08 ILYBNILWY
Sep:9/18/08 "ow" :25
Filed:11/18/08
D:12/8/08
M:Different 26 yr. old 7/09.
Newborn 4/10
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Hi Tad,
I'm glad the little girl is still alive and very much kicking. She probably had a cold or a bug and is feeling much better now. We all get attached to our little fur babies. They love us unconditionally and they fill a void during a crisis. Don't ever say "never" because you've become an animal lover and no matter what, we all need companionship and love in our lives, i.e., be it human or a pet.

Time certainly has flown and you've begun to really recover in the last year. Try not to allow those painful dates to get you down. Okay?

Enjoy your pets and give that special little girl rattie an extra serving of yogurt today.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Tad, you are so hard on yourself, sweetie.

Your rats give you unconditional love..

Im sorry your stepfather said those words to you. He was wrong, Tad. Very wrong.

You have come a long way..you still have some ways to go. We all get to where we need to be in our own time. But we can do things to hinder our path.

I agree with J3, you need to ask your son to stop telling you things about your xh. It doesnt serve you well.

I think you are working towards acceptance. Thats where you need to get to in order to get to forgiveness. That sets you free.

The only way to do this is through it.

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Nothing like a sick pet and a toothache to get you ready to go out, no Tad? I wonder if there is a hot poker around? Maybe to kind of round the night out? wink

Quote:
My grandmother used to tell me that I was the most sentimental person that she ever knew. I used to think that maybe that was a good thing, but now I'm not so sure.

I feel pretty pathetic and sad.
Has it ever occurred to you that your stepdad did to you what his father did to him? What he thought of as "normal"? What he was taught was the best for you? Some people actually feel that if you show a feeling you must be weak (if you're a male; emotional if a woman.)

Has it occurred to you that you are different than other people but maybe not that different? I mean it's not like other people don't feel things. But they may have propagated the illusion that real men don't feel things when they saw you openly express your feelings.

As for the rat? Doesn't sound like the ol' girl is ready to give up the farm just yet. I suggest you get another when her time with you is up. You obviously seem to enjoy their company. I can't see why you wouldn't, to be honest.

Thoughts?

AJ


"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK
Put the glass down...
"Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
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Thanks Renee, Job, Ur and AJ.

Quote:
Wow seems like four yrs. ago was just yesterday. I remember when u joined, I was still a hot mess. We both have come a long way.


Yeah we have. I was thinking that earlier today. So much has happened in four years and I have come a long way, but thought I would be, and would love to be further along.

Quote:
I'm glad the little girl is still alive and very much kicking. She probably had a cold or a bug and is feeling much better now. We all get attached to our little fur babies. They love us unconditionally and they fill a void during a crisis. Don't ever say "never" because you've become an animal lover and no matter what, we all need companionship and love in our lives, i.e., be it human or a pet.


She is still kicking. Matter of fact, she is doing a little better. I got creative and cracked open a capsule of Amoxicillin that was given to me by my dentist. It is an antibiotic that is safe for rats. I mixed it with some yogurt and give her just a little bit two times a day. She's had a few minor breathing episodes today, but nothing like the ones she had been having. She is still a little weak, but is moving around much better today. I really hated seeing her suffer and it makes me happy that she is doing a little better. I've noticed a big difference. I'm sooooo glad that she "talked" me out of putting her to sleep yesterday.

Quote:
Tad, you are so hard on yourself, sweetie.

Your rats give you unconditional love..

Im sorry your stepfather said those words to you. He was wrong, Tad. Very wrong.


I've always been hard on myself Ur. Always. Not sure why.

Unconditional love? Yes they do. As I've said, it may sound foolish, but my little ratties are my best friends. I never really understood the Michael Jackson song "Ben", but now that I have my ratties, I do. It was actually a song that he wrote about a rat that he had. Yeah, Michael Jackson wrote a song about a rat! smile Look it up sometime.

As for my stepdad, yeah, he was a real piece of work. Some of it was his upbringing and some was his military background I think. I was a p*ssy for crying over a dog, uncoordinated because I was left-handed, a wimp because I was extremely close to my grandmother.....it goes on.

Quote:
Nothing like a sick pet and a toothache to get you ready to go out, no Tad? I wonder if there is a hot poker around? Maybe to kind of round the night out?


Haha. Yeah. I'm going to force myself to go out next week if I'm not in too much pain from getting my tooth yanked.

Quote:
Has it occurred to you that you are different than other people but maybe not that different? I mean it's not like other people don't feel things. But they may have propagated the illusion that real men don't feel things when they saw you openly express your feelings.


Yeah. I'm sure other people feel things. I was just always taught that men or boys showing feelings meant weakness. I was juggled between households a lot as a kid and with the exception of my grandmother, I was always taught or it was implied that boys/men aren't supposed to show feelings. They can feel them, but not express them.

Quote:
As for the rat? Doesn't sound like the ol' girl is ready to give up the farm just yet. I suggest you get another when her time with you is up. You obviously seem to enjoy their company. I can't see why you wouldn't, to be honest.

Thoughts?


Hmmm.....I would love to have more but.....not sure if I want the sadness every two-three years. Their life spans are so short. They are amazing pets. I would have never believed it a few years ago. Yes, I do enjoy their company and I would love to have more. Maybe I will change my mind or consider it someday. S22 has already told me that he is going to surprise me with another little girl when these go, but I really hope he doesn't. Atleast not anytime soon.

Tad

P.S....yes Jack, I'll start a new thread soon. smile


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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