Friend or Friendly?

[Delboy]

‘Can We Still Be Friends’

Songwriter; Todd Rundgren

(For me, the best version is sung by Rod Stewart: Note the lyrics towards the end have been altered and added to by Rod Stewart, to suit his situation when he recorded his version in early 1984).

We can't play this game anymore
But can we still be friends?
Things just can't go on like before
But can we still be friends?
We had something to learn
Now it's time for the wheel to turn
Grains of sand, one by one
Before you know it, it’s all gone

Lets admit we made a mistake
But can we still be friends?
Heartbreak's never easy to take
But can we still be friends?
It's a strange, sad affair
Sometimes seems like we just don't care
Don't waste time feeling hurt
We've been through hell, together

Where do we go?

Where do we go from here?

We can’t play this game anymore
But can we still be friends?
Things just can’t go on like before
But can we still be friends?

We awoke from our dream
Things are not what they always seem
Memories linger on
It's like a sweet, sad, old song

Where do we go?
Where do we go from here?
Where do we go from here?

(Refrain: guitar solo by Jeff Beck)

I can’t play this game anymore
Can we still be friends?
Things just can’t go on like before
But I just wanna be friends
I just wanna be, wanna be, wanna be
And now I just wanna be friends

Yes, something I’ve learned
Something I’ve learned
Now can we still be friends?

Let’s admit our mistakes….hmm….now

[Drew]

I'm a little partial to the James Taylor version.

[Starsky309]

After a lot of thinking about just this topic, being "Friends" vs. being "Friendly", the above posts have really helped clarify the difference for me, and the importance of the distinction, of getting it right.


I am being friendly to my H at this point.

If I am not, how can he appreciate the changes I've made, and see that I'm a positive addition to his life?
If I am unfriendly, I will come off as cold, unapproachable, angry, and resentful. Or it will suggest that I am avoiding him because the sitch is just too painful for me.
Neither of those projections is something he's likely to want to hang around.
They both say: "You're not wanted."
They elicit guilt, anger, and other negative emotions that our spouses associate with US.

If I am friendly, (like I was when we first met, and as I am around people who enjoy my company), he might see that maybe--just MAYBE---he was incorrect in his assessment that I'm the source of his misery and he's better off without me.

However, we are not "Friends" at this point.
My friends don't avoid me, don't plan to cut me out of their lives. They have my best interests at heart and think of more than just themselves.
They're fun to be with, want to spend time with me for no other reason than we enjoy each other's company.

And I would not keep anyone as a friend who treated me so callously.

No. We are not "Friends" right now.
He is my husband, he is having a real issue in his life, and I am standing by him as long as I can in the hopes that he will get better, that we will get better, and we'll be able to be friends again.

The seeds are there. We were great friends, way back when. We could be again. I am letting him see that as often as I can.

But I don't ask him to hang out, make a fuss on his birthday, call him to shoot the breeze or share my problems.
And he certainly doesn't.

I have told him that if we divorce, that I will NOT be his "Friend".

I don't think he remembers this, so at some point I will revisit it with him.

I plan to never see or speak to him again.
Not to punish him, but because there will be no more room in my life for people who do not add to it in some equitable way.
(Family excluded, but he will no longer be "family" either, by his own choice.)

And-- because I will want to start over, move away from here and all the bad memories, and not subject myself to the ongoing pain of knowing my partner of almost 30 years thinks he's better off without me.

Nope. No can do.
That, for him, is the consequence of divorce, among many others.

Someone who divorces me without valuing me enough to try and salvage our M, who doesn't believe that promises and vows are important enough to make a change, who has no real remorse, and who still thinks only of what he wants, is not someone I want in my life.

Those actions show a lack of integrity, a lack of reliability and inner strength, a lack of kindness, and a willingness to cut and run when the going gets tough.

Those are definitely qualities I DO NOT WANT IN A MATE, and neither do I want them in a "Friend".

The catch here is: If he is still in MLC/Depressed/Mentally Screwy, he may follow through with divorce in this state of mind and later come to regret it.

If he does push the divorce through at the earliest opportunity, I will have gone through about six years of emotional turmoil:
Two years of isolated separation, one year of his adultery and emotional abuse while living together, and about two years + of serious emotional distancing and physical/emotional neglect prior to all of that.

Then approximately a year to finalize the divorce, relocate, rehome the animals, and start my new life without him.

Once that happens, I will be 57 and there will be no going back for me.

At that point, there will be nothing left to tie me to him, and if he still thinks I am expendable, as divorcing me demonstrates, then I will remove myself from his life.

On some level I suspect he may just hang this divorce thing over my head indefinitely and never withdraw it. That he will continue to wield it as leverage so he can feel in control, and can keep me on my "best behavior" out of fear.

That also will not happen. After a period of time (to be determined) I will sign and be done.

The ONLY way I will be his "friend" after we divorce is if he comes around enough to make a real effort to make amends, to do right by me, and gives reconciliation his best effort.
If we try, and fail, to make a good M in the end, and decide to divorce, then that's a whole different story.
That would mean he DOES have integrity and the other qualities I'd want in a friend.

So it's not the divorce that's the deciding factor, it's why and how that happens.

Sorry this was long, and if it was a hijack. It is on topic, so maybe that's okay.

In summary:

We should be FRIENDLY. That doesn't mean we are FRIENDS.
I am friendly to my neighbors, smiling and pleasant, chatty when the situation arises, helpful and appreciative, honest and reliable.

I make offers of help, allow them to help me out, make sure they're okay if there is a storm or the power goes out.

But--right now, H and I are not "FRIENDS".


---(G)GGG

Starsky

[GoatGal]

Mr. Starsky,

I value your opinion and input on these boards and it is rare that I hear from you about anything I posted.

I hope that means perhaps I don't need as much advice!
(If only because I've been dealing with this longer and once I set my mind to something, I'm like a Terrier.)

But I have to say, when I saw you'd quoted and responded to something I wrote, my heart started to pound.

"Oh crap. He's gonna bring out the dreaded 2 x 4...."

I'm glad to see that's not the case.

Maybe I've got a handle on this after all.


---(G)GGG


PS: For the benefit of people like me who tend to interpret things rather literally in these situations, it would be helpful if certain things could be spelled out.

The above thread is a great example.

Also, it was only recently that I discovered I was supposed to move closer to H as he moved closer to me. Seems like a no-brainer, but I can't recall that ever being stated clearly in the books. Prior to that, I was keeping my "friendly but distant/busy GALing" going.

I will try to think of other examples where I got confused. I'll bet others could use some clarification as well.

Thanks!

[Starsky309]

GG:

Your post made me smile.

And yeah, I'd say you've obviously picked up a thing or two.


Starsky

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Tad in no uncertain terms:

It is OK (and better for you IMHO) not to be friends with your wife.

Two quotes for you if this comes up with her:

W- Let's be friends.

Answer #1 - I'm booked solid with friends, but I'll call you when one dies.

Answer #2 - I'm good with friends; let's be enemies.


I do have a question:

Your son why is he telling you this crap? Why aren't you telling him not to feed you this info? Are you pressing him? Like Tad jr. What did you and your mom talk about?

Also a little insight.
Passive Aggressive behaviour. Neither of you said hello, but she blames you for ignoring her. You need that in your life life a poop flavored lollipop.

[ericmsant2]

Mr Beans...

poop flavored lollipop

These ^^^ were on sale at Target. Just sayin....

[MrBond]

"Might be a good thing to expand on, Mr B. "

Tad knows based on his background. I don't think this subject needs to be talked about to death on his thread.

In any event, it is his choice to live the way he wants to. Life does get easier when you get rid of resentment and hate. Things like that eat away at you. With all of the tragedy that he's experienced, he focuses alot of the emotion towards his W. She's just one piece of his life's troubles that started when he was young.

Tad, if you learn to let that anger part of your life towards your life go, you may be able to start healing the other hurts from your past.

[tadpole1025]

Thanks everyone.

MrBond, I'm trying to let go of the anger. It is easier said than done, but one day, I will get there.

Jack, I'm going to remember "Answer #1." Made me laugh.

To answer the question:

Your son why is he telling you this crap? Why aren't you telling him not to feed you this info? Are you pressing him? Like Tad jr. What did you and your mom talk about?

It was more like this:

ME: "Did you have a good time the other night?"

S28: "Yeah it was awesome."

ME: "His band is pretty good."

S28: "Yeah. Not bad."

ME: "Did your mother have a good time?" (Mistake?)

S28: "I think so. She did say that you ignored her all night. She said that a couple times."

ME: "I didn't ignore her. I just have nothing to say."

S28: "I know."

That was pretty much it.

Tad

[Ggrass]

I tend to relate to starky.

Except me and my h have no reason to have contact or be friends. I will not approach him or say hello at an event at which I see him, I think he's just not worthy of my time. Given all the things he has done. Assulted my son, had at least one ow suspect more.

If he approaches me, I will be civil. That is all. He finds that tough as his friendly model also has rainbows and unicorns. I have treated his family with respect and affection to be treated as someone they never knew.

I don't feel you owe her a true friendship, but if she wanted she could have said hello. I doubt you would have spat on her or been rude. I think she is still looking to play the blame game. Friend ship does take 2 and she doesn't hold up her end, she has no rights to complain in my eyes.