FINALLY SURFACING

[MrBond]

"Is this normal? Is it normal that suddenly LBHs feels like being through?
What should be my next concern?"

Just my 2 cents. Right now you're experiencing the same "fog" that the WASs experience. You are feeling the high of a new relationship, feeling as if you are finally awakened, etc. But to be honest, these were the same feelings you had with W when you first got together. Over time those feelings get forgotten.

In fact, if you were to compare what you just posted to what WASs involved in an A say, you will find that they are eerily similar.

Take the time to really take it slow and GROW the relationship if that's what you really want.

I agree with sandi. It did seem very quick and it's not uncommon. The LBS feels so neglected that any positive interaction "suddenly" seems like a miracle and they feel a sudden sense of love. Over time, like every other relationship, those feelings will fade.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi F,

I agree with MrBond. Just like a spouse in an A, you are seeing the world through magical glasses because you are now in limerence. Feel good chemicals are being released in your brain, causing you to crave more. This craving is so strong it will easily overcloud all logic.

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or making a mistake.

Just understand that this stage you are in typically lasts 6-24 months. Ultimately, there is no way to know if this R will be any better than one with your W until you get through this period and see what you two have on the other side.

Meeting someone and connecting like you and new women have is actually one of my fears. I want to continue to stand for my M, because I know my W is worth it, and I know how difficult a dream girl would make it to continue to stay on track.

Enjoy each day and take care, my friend.

[Fartiltre]

I had a long and nice talk with shrink Thursday morning.
We addressed three issues in my life:
- Me continuing on my path
- New woman (NW)
- WTF happened over the past 3,4 or 5 months

Shrinks opinion is rather clear.
I haven’t changed me! I have simply peeled of some layers and gotten the true me back. She tells me that a change that fast and consistent is not learning new ways – it’s taking away unwanted things.

She tells me to take it slow with NW but also to enjoy.

She tells me to stick with the things that make me happy. To keep doing them and if NW wants to join in then welcome her, but if not then still keep doing them. Things are fatherhood, GAL, exercise, friends, educating and developing me, work.
She also tells me to stay away from things that makes me unhappy. That list is so short People that I do not feel comfortable around.
In short she tells me the same as I hear here: Stick with your happy life and integrate a woman if possible – otherwise stay single. NW and I have talked about this and she feels the same way about her life and journey.

I will make a list and then I will start keeping track of my doings so I will be able to evaluate. I will give the list to shrink and she will help me to stick with it!

She tells me that the fear I have about not being ready for women (W, NW or others) is rubbish. We had a good talk about this. She saw the change settling in several months ago and sees me as ready for life.

We didn’t have nearly the time needed so I booked a new time Monday.
We adressed my focus once again and my problems in the lower regions. I simply do not “function” as I should and it is starting to annoy and worry me big time!

NW and I spend three hours in a bed friday afternoon – three hours! Looking back I believe that three minutes might be the average! We talked, laughed, cuddled and then started over – the hours just passed by. She stayed here from Monday 2pm till Tuesday 2pm as well. Great time containing it all.

I had a good talk with friend friday as well. He knows W and likes her. He told me that it all seems so unfair to W. That NW now gets this new me and doesn’t know the history. That if W feels angry, wondering, hurt or whatever about me being who I am now – he understands. I agree fully with him. I also understand W. I should have done this years ago. Shrink and I also talked shortly about this. Shrink told me that I wouldn’t have been able to. That I needed a major kick in the head to wake up. W gave me that by leaving. I also believe that shrink is spot on.


MrBond,
Thanks for taking the time to advice and help me once again

Just my 2 cents. Right now you're experiencing the same "fog" that the WASs experience. You are feeling the high of a new relationship, feeling as if you are finally awakened, etc. But to be honest, these were the same feelings you had with W when you first got together. Over time those feelings get forgotten.
In fact, if you were to compare what you just posted to what WASs involved in an A say, you will find that they are eerily similar.

I understand this very well and I agree! The “in love” feeling is different probably due to age but the feeling of being acknowledged is the same. It does feel great and it makes me feel better.
…and yes – it was the same feelings I experienced when I met W. Still there is one major difference. I understand the feelings and I believe I have the knowledge that makes me capable of taking one step back and look at the situation. In fact I believe this is what gives me doubts about what I am doing and I do have doubts.
I understand that the in-love-feeling will fade or we forget it.

Take the time to really take it slow and GROW the relationship if that's what you really want.

I don’t know what I really want to be honest. I knew some weeks ago or thought I knew, but now I am split in three parts as I described in my previous post. I know I want to be happy and I am getting closer and closer to actually knowing what makes me happy and what makes me unhappy. I want to continue working me, but in regards of women I have no idea about what I want. New woman just surfaced. I didn’t look for it actively but then again I didn’t turn her down. She makes me feel happy at the moment. On a bigger time scale I have no idea. W doesn’t make me feel happy at the moment and on the bigger time scale I have no idea. So when I put on my calculating, lizard, ever-spinning, fixer male-brain I believe I would be a very stupid man not to investigate this new woman – still from an honest angle. Then again it might just be the “fog” that makes me think that way.
I have read so much for the past year about personal development, love, relationships, sex, attraction and so on but my knowledge in regards of growing an R is close to nothing. Right now I simply take it day-by-day.

I agree with sandi. It did seem very quick and it's not uncommon. The LBS feels so neglected that any positive interaction "suddenly" seems like a miracle and they feel a sudden sense of love. Over time, like every other relationship, those feelings will fade.

I also agree to this but what on earth am I supposed to do then  New woman makes me feel good and when I look at her objectively (as objectively as I am capable of) she seems to be one fantastic human being.
I believe that the change in me occurred weeks ago so I do not see NW as the cause. She definitely has speeded the process but she didn’t start it. I didn’t miss that part of my life until I suddenly experienced it.

MrBond – I hope the above makes sense. I agree with you but I also think that there is a second side to this. It is not like I became single yesterday and just rushed out in a new R. I do hope that all the knowledge I feel I have in my bag now will help me choose the right path and make the right choices. For now I choose to focus on me and what makes me feel good. Don’t know what else to do!


FYoung,
Always good to hear from you – thanks for taking the time!

I agree with MrBond. Just like a spouse in an A, you are seeing the world through magical glasses because you are now in limerence. Feel good chemicals are being released in your brain, causing you to crave more. This craving is so strong it will easily overcloud all logic.

I understand! I try to step back and apply logic and objectivity all the time. It’s not easy because the”feel-good-feeling” pulls me in the opposite direction.

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or making a mistake.

I know and I didn’t read your post this way! I know you mean only good!

Just understand that this stage you are in typically lasts 6-24 months. Ultimately, there is no way to know if this R will be any better than one with your W until you get through this period and see what you two have on the other side.

I agree once again! I am not looking for a quick fling with anybody. I want a meaningful R with somebody I connect with. Case is that I have no idea if I connect with New Woman yet. That will take more time, more talks and walks – and then at some point children, practical’s and all of that will hit daily life.
For now she makes me feel good. I enjoy her company in every way possible.
At the moment the only reason I see for me and W getting back together is children. W is maybe still the lovely lady I met years ago, but I have no idea.

Meeting someone and connecting like you and new women have is actually one of my fears. I want to continue to stand for my M, because I know my W is worth it, and I know how difficult a dream girl would make it to continue to stay on track.

I never even looked at this possibility. Never saw it possible until it suddenly happened to me. I understand your POV and wonder about my own if I hadn’t met New Woman. I would probably still be standing!
Case is that this just happened so fast

Enjoy each day and take care, my friend.

Thanks FY – I will …remember to do the exact same thing!

[B-V2]

Hello F,

Just wanted you to know that over the cause of some past weeks, I have been reading your whole thread from your first posting of 12th April 2013 till now: so thank you for having posted as detailed and as often as you do, very hard working on yourself you have been and are.

Your 1st ever posting inspired me to start my very 1st own thread yesterday in a similar style, as I liked your logical structure, so I copied that structure with pride and I hope you do not mind.

I see several similarities between your 2013 postings and my current situation (apart from both of us living in Scandinavian countries): WAW that has clearly decided to move out and did so quickly (and in my case also to immediately starting the divorce process).

Have an excellent weekend, and if you have any good advise then I look forward reading such in my thread, I will continue to visit yours often.

[Fartiltre]

The past days have been pleasant. As days go by W is less and less on my mind and the thoughts about her has changed a lot. I don’t miss her anymore – that’s it! I still find it so sad on behalf of the children but not for myself anymore. I am good and that goes with or without NW. I am starting to realize - for real – for how long both W and I felt miserable in our R. We are talking years and that might enhance the peace I feel these days.

NW and I spent Thursday night together and yesterday we talked 3½ hours on the phone. It is jolly nice to share thoughts and life with somebody again. She asked if I am her boyfriend yesterday...she seems ready for it all, talking about future and so. I am all right with the talk and it is difficult not to get dragged along but I need to slow it down. Through these talks we get to know each other and that’s nice but it seems fast even though we don’t spend that much time together. I have also already stated a few boundaries and every time she seems positively astonished and starts talking about it as something all men should do even if she disagrees. (I now see the “respect” issue so clearly Sandi2).

I started reading “His needs – her needs” a few days ago and once again my eyes just opens – amazing book! The author could have substituted most of the examples with the story of me and W. Only exception is that there is no OM. I can also see how NW and I meet each other’s needs at the moment. It is almost like my needs are intimate conversation and hers is ML. The opposite of what is described in the book – but I guess that is exactly what happens when the R is new. I also believe that MrBond was spot on when he said that this is what happens – the difficult part is keeping this going at an acceptable level for both.
I have learned so many lessons already and I feel ready for many more. I want my eyes wide open and I want a greater understanding of what makes an R last.

The ML part that was causing me major problems seems to work better

Communication with W seems less than normal. I guess things are starting to find into routines are the day to day Qs are answered and sorted out. Since we only talk children and practical’s there is no need to talk on a daily basis unless something happens and right now nothing happens.

My legs are killing me and they have been this way for weeks now. I have an appointment with doctors Monday to have them examined. Hopefully they can do something about it since it is affecting my ability to exercise tremendously

Paul,
Good to hear from you
I does sound familiar. The pain or more likely the experience and the knowledge gathered from it will always be there. I certainly hope so! I feel stronger than ever and even more important I feel at balance. I still find myself reacting as old me but throughout this year it has become more and more seldom. I feel at peace and I feel ready for life whatever it may bring.
I still don’t know that much about NW and I will take it as slow as possible. I am tempted to just rush into it but I need myself and the kids to be a part of this process so it will have to be slow. Funny how everybody (friends, shrink, here etc.) tells me to take it slow but nobody haven’t got a clue about what timeframe slow is.
It sounds like you are doing well and that pleases me. Both of us have been through the grinder and are now back on out feet – that’s how I hope everybody (R or no R) will end up.

Sandi,
I believe this post disappeared in the forum update so I copied it from the email I received.

I hope you are prepared, in case your W is not happy about NW. Ordinarily, I would predict a negative reaction from her, but she has already proven not to fit the typical mode, so IDK what to expect. But I think what really would throw you for a loop would be for W to start pursuing you when she hears about NW.

I think you would love to have a nice simple life, but if it involves women......I doubt it will happen.

Love the last sentence Sandi! …and I believe you are absolutely on the spot here. Single life is simple life, women are not! …but I want to share with somebody so I will face the dragon(s) head on

I don’t know what to expect from W.
I guess you are right about the “if W starts pursuing me” part but I won’t let thoughts like that interfere at the moment. I won’t prepare for or “fear” something that might never happen. I want to be happy where I am. If she gets angry about NW when she finds out then so be it. I believe I can handle it – in fact I believe I can handle most these days. W is down from the pedestal, she is just a woman whom happens to be the mother of my Ds. Some times when we talk it almost feels as if the roles are now opposite. Just a feeling I have!

[Fartiltre]

I am good!

I have just spent some very nice days in Poland enjoying nature and hunting. (Ran into a huge male wolf while stalking in the forest. We stared at each other for a minute or so at 80 meters before he took off again – WOW!) It has been good and the peace in the forest, the excitement about the hunt, the fresh air and so on did me good.

Work is ok but business is bad. I wonder if the company I earn my living in will survive the difficulties it is facing, but I do not worry (that much) about the future. I will be ok whatever happens.

NW and I are getting along great. We talk, laugh and enjoy each other’s company. Due to children we do not spend that much time together but we value what we get. I find myself prioritizing her over many things but not the important new things I have learned during the past 1½ year.
As I get to know her I understand that she was once (8 years ago) a WAW and that her xH might have put her through exactly what I put W through. We haven’t discussed it deeply but due to the understanding I have of all of this now, I seemingly understands her like no one have ever done before.
She is very different from W. VERY! We share many things and views but also disagree on a lot. Still no deal breakers for either one of us.
We have talked about our fears, about being afraid to believe if this is true romance or just both of us feeling good about the romance itself. We have had many many deep and long intimate talks and I see how that affects her. The books are so right but case is that it just comes natural to me. I have turned in to a great listener and now I also share my deeper thoughts. Never used to do that!
We are talking about how to keep this going and we have started to plan more than a few days ahead. Things seem to go faster than I planned but I haven’t got a clue about how to slow it down. It seems natural and she is just one heck of a woman.
ML seems to be getting better

W has texted me twice about the karate during the past week. D7 is giving her a really hard time about this and D7 is asking W if she can stay there on Wednesdays so she can go to karate.
I stick with the agreement W and I made on this some weeks ago.
W sends a text asking me to reconsider, I say no, she goes silent and then it starts over. I can understand her hurt and POVs on these matters but IMHO she needs to put her foot down and tell D7 to stop. W seems to let a little door open to D7 every time and that gives D7 hope – and she pursues this as every child or human being would.
I still get the doubts whether I handled this OK but everybody around tell me I am doing the right thing. The only one that really challenged me is in fact NW
Ds are still hurting and stating that they wish W and I still lived together. S11 seems just fine and perhaps even happier than ever.
Communication with W is seldom and still totally pleasant unless I say no to something. I have made it a habit to text W when Ds go to her to tell her what we have been doing. She has told me it is so nice I do that but she doesn’t do it herself.

I find myself wondering what I would do and how I would feel if W wanted to R. I can’t predict the future but right now I do not feel like it.

My disease has been really bad for the past 4 weeks. My legs hurt a lot and some mornings I use ½-1 hour just to get out of bed. The normal health system seems to have given up so I have spent some time searching for alternatives. I found one and have consulted him a few times. It’s a guy that helps athletes, soccer players and so and he comes highly recommended.
Right now he is my hope. Due to the legs hurting I can’t exercise and that s!cks

I find myself at peace these weeks. NW is off course a part in this but I am fine. I face health issues and possible financial problems but in some odd way it doesn’t stress me or makes me sad.

B-V2
Welcome on board MS DB! As everybody else I am sorry that we meet here – but still in the current situation this might be the greatest place on “earth”
I am not (yet) familiar with your story but I will be Nice to meet a Scandinavian in here – I believe you are the first I know of. I also hope you will find the boards, the books and the “world” that surrounds DB as great as I have. I have been blessed with a tremendously big and caring amount of advice and if not for that I would have been a wreck.

Just wanted you to know that over the cause of some past weeks, I have been reading your whole thread from your first posting of 12th April 2013 till now….

Oh my That is a lot of reading but if it helped you reading it just 1% as much as it helped me writing it I am glad. Reading is good but I found that posting made me think and it made my thoughts clearer.

Your 1st ever posting inspired me to start my very 1st own thread yesterday in a similar style, as I liked your logical structure, so I copied that structure with pride and I hope you do not mind.

Off course not – just happy that it can be used to something good. I had no idea what I was doing at that time

I will get back to you on your own thread when I have had the time to read it but hopefully some of the VETs in here have helped you already.

[Fartiltre]

I am so busy these weeks so my time here and everywhere else is limited. Right now I prioritize me, my children, my IRL-life and then off course new woman (NW)

I find myself feeling happy and content I feel better than ever and only two issues rises I my mind when I look for fears, upcoming troubles and so on.

First one is about NW and if I am ready for this. Shrink, friends and so tells me I am, but the time spent here and all the reading I have done gives me doubts. Few days ago a dear friend told me to go with my feeling. “If you feel like spending time with her – then do it” and I guess that will be the mantra for the upcoming time. And – oh boy – I feel like spending the time.
Perhaps it is time for me to actually follow my own feelings and my own heart for once and stop thinking twice about every word I say or decision I make. I don’t want (in any way) to fall back into old habits so I have made plans with shrink so she will help me stay on track, I have shared many of my thoughts and worries with NW so she knows about my past and old me, I have shared with friends that will help me – I feel I have a caring group of people that will back me if needed. I feel motivated to stay on track simply because I feel good. I like new me so much better than old me and I recognize the power of old habits and what caused me to fall as deep as I did in the R with W. I think I might be ready

NW met my Ds (as a friend) Saturday and it was crazy! They totally loved her and asked me to call her and invite her to stay for dinner after she had left. She came back and we enjoyed the evening. There were so many nice interactions between her and the Ds that I can’t count them, but two stands out.

1/
D7 pulled me aside and this happened:
D7: “Dad, are you in love with NW?”
Me: “I think she is very nice…why do you ask?”
D7: “I would like you to be….”

2/
NW stayed the night! She slept in a separate room. I slept with her but went to my own bed very early so the Ds wouldn’t/didn’t notice. When D5 woke up and discovered that NW was still there she got up without spilling one word to me, went to NW and tugged herself in beside NW in her bed.

I was taken completely by surprise and just writing this makes my heart jump again. Ds actually chose NW above me several times (when seating at dinner table, sitting in the couch and so on. I haven’t experienced that before with anybody, but XW)
NW was as surprised as me and at the same time as happy as me……

I am trying to take it slow, NW and I have talked about it but I (both of us) just get pulled back right in. I feel and act as I am in love with all its goodies, but I also (now) know that this makes me see it all in a different and perhaps brighter and better light than I should. I fear that this light covers the truth. I try to step back and look at the situation with objective eyes, at me, at her, at the children and all I see is good – still I get the fears.

The second issue for fears is my financials…the company I work in is on its way to bankruptcy and I will have to look into new possibilities soon.

Still I feel good and I am certain that everything will be all right. I feel enlightened and at peace and solely due to BD – it is crazy how a devastating and life-changing experience can make you go from (briefly) thinking about taking your own life to what I feel at the moment.
NW is a part of my happy-feeling but she is not the cause of it in any way.

XW (as I will call her from hereon) and I get along fine. We doesn’t talk that much and solely about children. That is just fine to me! I have informed her about NW as I didn’t want her to learn this from the Ds or anyone else but me. She seemed OK with this but then again “only trust half……” still goes
I do not in any way feel attracted towards XW. I see the hurt the D has put on the children and it hurts me that they are hurting – that is the sole cause for me still seeing that XW and I being together would cause any good….and that just isn’t enough! I am gone!
I informed her about NW on a text and got a “Congrats. That pleases me much to hear and thanks for informing me” back. I wanted her to hear it from me instead of the Ds or somebody in town. She seems to be fine with it.
We talked on the phone later and off course she is a bit curious which seems totally normal. The talk was as always pleasant and nice. She stated that “I have been thinking lately and it is time for me to put the pain and the hurt behind me”.

I might still have a chance of R but I don’t have the patience, the strength or whatever it takes. Furthermore the attraction is totally gone and the wish to build something new and strong by myself (and perhaps with NW) is stronger than ever.
I feel good!

[B-V2]

Hi F,

Hope you continue to feel good, and live in that moment and beyond!

Two questions for you:
1. Interesting what you wrote about you XW stating it to be time for her to put the pain and the hurt behind her. Does that therefore indicate that she has been in that state for about the last two+ years (as I am rather sure she must have had many months before BD of pain and hurt)?

2. Was there ever an (more permanent than just possible one night stands) OM/OP with your XW that you know/knew of, as I can not recall from your full thread?

[Fartiltre]

Still feeling good

I have had some days without the children and it has been great. I have had time with NW, friends and neighbors. I miss the children but I am getting so much better at this single parenting.

I have told friends about NW so I guess it is official now!
I feel like being in between. I do not want XW back but I still think about her and the past rather often – that makes me wonder if I am ready for a new serious and long term R. I do not want to wonder about this but I guess that all the knowledge I have gained makes this natural. I dissect the R/interactions with NW, evaluate, state my opinions, talks about my needs, ask about hers, I do not jump in to fix her issues and so on. The more I get to know her the better I think of her. She actually understands many of the views I have have learned DBing. She has been on her own journey and has learned much of the same but from a different angle.

XW and I do not communicate that much. It seems like XW have increased a bit and she is informing a bit more about what she and the Ds are doing. That is nice. All communication is nice and pleasant. I feel nothing towards her and that is actually awkward I some funny way. I wish her only good and hope that she is doing fine – just as I do with almost any person around me.

Tomorrow I have an appointment at shrink and I look forward to that. I will talk about NW and the feeling of not being ready and then I will talk about the children -how to guard them from further hurt and how to implement NW the best way possible.
Ds came home today and that is so great. They asked about NW and if she would come visit us today. They looked disappointed when I said no and had to tell them that she wouldn’t for some days because she is out of town with her mom.

1. Interesting what you wrote about you XW stating it to be time for her to put the pain and the hurt behind her. Does that therefore indicate that she has been in that state for about the last two+ years (as I am rather sure she must have had many months before BD of pain and hurt)?

As I interpreted XW she was (at this point) only talking about the time after BD. She has been sad and she has been hurting and my guess(mindreading) is that she still is and that she is wondering WTF happened to him(me). I believe this remark was only about this.
She hasn’t reached happiness yet and she wants to.
This is my words and mindreading but I believe it is how it is. Lot’s of WAWs expect to find happiness after they leave but they don’t. XW haven’t (as I see it) put in the effort and the work to turn things around for herself….maybe she will or maybe she wont…IDK
She was unhappy prior to BD and I believe for a long time (years). Looking back from where I am today – I was unhappy to!

2. Was there ever an (more permanent than just possible one night stands) OM/OP with your XW that you know/knew of, as I can not recall from your full thread?

None that I know of. In fact I believe she hasn’t even had a one night so far. When I told her about NW she said that she hadn’t even looked at anybody yet – and I have no reason not to believe her.
She didn’t leave me to be with another man – she left me to avoid being with me
(And now I am the kind of man she wants to be with (hers and friends words combined with some mindreading) – that might also cause some understandable hurt and anger within her)

[hotwheelsaust]

F, you are so right, along with many others before us. The WAS expect the future to be so much better for them was they have walked. How wrong most of them are. They view leaving us as being the only answer to their happiness, they don't work on themselves, and so much later they feel lost, unhappy and mindreading, wondering what happened.
I am so happy for you enjoying the time with the new woman. Like me, it is such an improvement to see the effort we have put in since BD when experiencing it with a new person.