Maybell XVII

[Maybell]

Sigh. Zues you really have figured out that validation thing. I suppose I could have added more to my text exchange with H just now. I'm just so frustrated with him. And now he's skipped calling the kids two nights in a row.

We are not reconciling now. So I don't need to take that part on right now. It can wait till things get better in my head.

Somebody tell me how I SHOULD be doing this, because I don't think I'm going anywhere but backward.

[GoatGal]

Wow, Zues.

That is interesting and reflects a lot of my thoughts lately.

If I end up divorced, I don't want to be "friends". It will be too painful.
But for now, we have to be friends at least on some level.

We have shared responsibilities, if not children, and I have to be the bigger person because he is incapable at this point.

Sometimes it IS painful to be in contact, and for me, even more so when he seems more like his old self.
GUBU is easy to dislike, so that makes it easier.

Seeing bits of my old H gives me tiny bursts of hope, which cause me to open my heart, and let more hurt and rejection in--which happens so easily even when it's not his intent.

In my case, he is not actively being disrespectful or at least I am not aware of him engaging in anything that is a deal-breaker for me.

How can he rekindle an attraction for me if he doesn't get the chance to like me? If he doesn't enjoy himself around me?

The fact is, what he remembers of our M is now tainted. I have to help him forget that and see what our life has to offer now.

This doesn't mean be a doormat for him to mistreat me, just treat him as I would any person I care for.

Granted, it is HARD. To think of everything you're going to say, what your next move will be, trying not to take things personally. It's WORK.

He will not put himself out there to be hurt by me. I think that has been made clear. So I have to do it, and take the risk.

But slowly. Carefully, gently... with no pressure.

I'm just--here.
I don't pursue, but I'm available. And I'm super nice, super cool.

It's just got to be very gradually, with no expectations, and a lot of STFU and CTHD.
(That's Calm the Hell Down.)

I made the mistake of being too cold/too dark when I was really angry and hurt and I think it backfired on me.

It did, however, help a great deal with my detachment, and I think it was also the catalyst for him seeking therapy in his own.

Of course, it could have been something else altogether.

Anyhow, sorry for the hijack, Maybell.
Again.

Your Pal,

The Goal Gal

[Maybell]

Not a hijack. I agree with what you're both saying. But in my case the parenting thing really complicates things for me. I am a terrible judge for whether or not I'm being reasonable about things. He's entitled to his own ideas. But we don't communicate, I deal with ALL the parenting issues and he just parties with them every other weekend. He's sucking juice out of my Love Tank without even knowing such a thing is possible. I can't allow myself to build resentment if I want to rebuild a relationship with him, but I feel like I'm riding a bike uphill behind a guy who keeps throwing tacks under my tires.

[GoatGal]

Maybell, I understand your frustration.

Sounds like setting some boundaries is in order.
He's their father, seems he's got to step up for them regardless of his feelings about the M.

I've struggled with that too--still am, in fact.

How to get him to uphold his end without being bossy, controlling, complaining, or creating negative interactions.

Finally, I decided that it wasn't so much what I said, as what I did.

I figured out what my boundaries were, and when he crossed them, he got "consequences."

He doesn't let me know he's coming. Then I don't see him when he's here and go dark.
He blows off his night to take care of the animals for no good reason... I go dark and go out and GAL. I know he sees the bill...

I don't know what might work for you, but there's got to be a way to have some "natural consequences" in place that don't require you to be the responsibility cop, but are an outgrowth of his dropping the ball.

He doesn't show up when he's supposed to, you all go on without him.
If the kids get upset at him, then they do. Then he has to explain it to them.

I know this sounds overly simplistic and I don't mean it to be. I'm sure you've thought of all this yourself. Just trying to get the old creative juices flowing.

He's not filling your love tank. Of course he's not. He's struggling enough trying to keep himself afloat.

Maybe try and think of it that right now he has nothing left to give. I don't think he is capable, no matter what he says, or however he may lead you to believe that he might.

Building a relationship with him now is pretty much out of the question. He's not ready. Try to focus on the small things, the MANY small things we all are reading in your sitch.

He has to experience the consequences of his actions in the real world. If the children turn away from them, if he loses out on opportunities with them, then that's the price he pays.

I'm not saying your childrens' relationship with him isn't vitally important. It is. But it's not your job to to smooth things over for him, if that's even what you do on occasion.

Try and find ways to deal with things without depending on him. Let him feel what that's like, to be on the outside of the family.

Not in a mean way, just let nature take its course, ya know?

If you could accept that he was ill, would you expect him to fulfill many of your emotional needs, or to uphold an equitable share of the parenting and day-to-day responsibilities?

Perhaps this is another way of looking at it. Because if he really IS in MLC, he is not himself, he is depressed/mixed up and it will only cause resentment if your expectations are not met.

Now--if he gives you grief about taking care of things without him, that's another story!

Again, sorry if this sounds simplistic and dopey. It's just what I've been dealing with.

What to "allow/excuse" and what to insist upon.

I soon realized that my "insisting" did nothing more than push him further away.
So I appreciate all he DOES do, and he does more.

Natural consequences and positive reinforcement.

It's all AMOEBA training!

(((Maybell))))


---GGG

[Maybell]

Thank you, GoatGal, that's really helpful. I'm going to put it in my book of wisdom and try to focus on figuring out how to implement. I really appreciate it.

[Zimmy]

Zues: this was such a poignant post for me. I am struggling with the same debate. I loved my ex with all my heart, but he betrayed and abandoned me for another woman. There were so many lies and now he is like a stranger - seems not to care about my feelings or how much he is hurting me and destroying my life at all.

In the end, I fought hard from June through October to try to make him see the light and rekindle our relationship, but the pull of the affair was overpowering and just last week he told me that he had decided to choose the OW. It's brutal.

I wish I could be mature and selfless enough to be his friend and hang in there in hopes that he comes to his senses in the future. But it is so painful to go from being his everything to merely an acquaintance. Also, why does he deserve to keep my friendship - he lied, he cheated, he was disloyal - that is not good friendship material.

I would have given anything to have him come home or for him to realize one day that he made the biggest mistake of his life. But I don't think I am strong or secure enough to live in limbo and wait for him to figure that out (if ever), only to be hurt again and again. How can I heal if I am faced with that torture every day?

My DB coach Leni said the exact same thing, and I believe that she is right - that friendship is the basis for a strong relationship. But we had a good friendship before his affair, and it wasn't enough to prevent his weak behavior. Also, if the affair falls apart and he realizes the grass isn't greener in the future, won't he think back to our good relationship and amazing memories nonetheless?

Another thing I wonder, is how can they miss you if you are always there fulfillling some of their needs? Maybe you need to take a step back and really distance to see if they notice? If it's meant to be and all that...

Apologies - this was very much a stream of random consciousness.

[Zues126]

Thank you all for the kind words. Goat Gal, really glad to see you on here again. Your story about your ex and porn was a huge aid in my quest to conquer this habit. It has not been easy and I had one backslide about a month ago, but I didn't use that as an excuse to give up or keep down that road because I remembered your words vividly. Good reminder that we can all make impacts for each other.

Zimmy, great points as well. Some people feel being friends is allowing them to cake eat. But I trust the DB coaches. I think the key is to remain mysterious, not always be available, to let them experience the positive and improved you without letting them have all of the fruit. For women this seems easier actually as most men need the physical side to feel truly fulfilled and connected. I don't see a man ever feeling satisfied with a good close emotional friendship wih a wonderful woman he was previously intimate with. For me and other men it seems tougher, I feel like if I'm there for her emotionally that would have been her ideal marriage anyway. I know that's not quite true, but ou get t.

But my point is to be friendly, but not give them the whole package. Kind of a tease. Follow the 90% rule. However friendly they are, be 90% as friend back. This ensures that they see you reciprocating goodwill, while not pursuing, letting them set the distance a bit, and leaving them wanting just a little more. That's like ending the conversations first, etc.

As for healing, I get it. Not easy. Ill let you know when I figure that out. But for me it's more important that I act with character than that I feel good. I've said it so much you all can tell I cling to that mantra. You can be proud of your actions. I have to believe it is the right road and will take you to a higher ground. Have to.

[Maybell]

I had a great day today. And on the way to my outing this morning, I realuzed: I feel like a whole person for the first time. Maybe ever. I can not afford to ever compromise that. I like feeling like a whole person. There is a lot to me.

Out tonight with new girlfriends. I heard that my H was seen in town at lunch with a much younger woman over the summer. The message was conveyed that whoever saw him was highly offended at him for being out with another woman when he's married with kids (we don't live in a very large town). I waited for the gut punch... Which didn't come. Because I'm a whole person; it's horrible for my kids but I'm STILL STANDING. I find that really cool. I didn't think I'd be ok, but I really, truly am. I do still get hurt and disappointed, but I also am ok. It's a miracle.

D11 asked H if she could come back to my house tomorrow morning (kids are with him this weekend). I was out but he texted to say shed asked and that he'd told her he thought I'd say no. I just answered "no, sorry." Because I was out! He got a little annoyed and said "I already told her that." And you know, instead of feeling panicked that he's annoyed, I felt like, "It's about time you stopped taking me for granted." Because (and I realize there may be a 2x4 coming, I'll hear it if there is) the only reason to pass that request on is for me to grant it.

Anyway, all that to say, I feel stronger and happier and more complete than I've felt in years. All is well for today. Long may it last.

[Maybell]

One thing that does bother me is when I hear about the struggles of adults whose parents divorced when they were kids. That really does bother me. But I am doing my best to mitigate that, I'll leave the rest to God.

[Card29]

How many of those divorced parents from the previous generation, whose kids went on to have similar problems, put in the kind of work to themselves after BD that you have? Most just blame the other person or throw their hands up and just say it wasn't meant to be. My W's mom (left by her H for OW when my W was 12) just called him a pig and held on to the resentment forever, to this day (17 years later). All of the multi-divorced aunts and uncles of mine just think it works until it doesn't, then you move on. they don't see any other way to live in marriage.

You're putting in the work, you can educate your children about M and other things you've learned, and someday you will be able to demonstrate your new knowledge and skills, either with WAH or another lucky man.