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Mozza, just repeat 'Tarheel, Tarheel' in your head during the lunch and you should be fine laugh laugh

In all seriousness, stay upbeat and confident. You can always cut lunch short by saying you have an appointment or need to be somewhere.



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Mozza: that is the worst. You know, at the beginning, when i was trying to be wonderful and we were having a great time together and I could see progress towards me, I was motivated and more relaxed and it was easier to be cool and patient. But when he started to backpeddle after seeing her or grew distant again, it got so draining that I got more and more fed up with his behavior and confusion. You know I wonder if at some point, if you want to preserve your love for her, you almost need to cut her off as much as you can and turn her loose. If she finds her way back later, once she has had a chance to miss you and see what the alternative world is like, then you know what you had is real. Otherwise, I felt like I was putting myself through the ringer for someone who was ambivalent (wrongly) about me. This is the most awful cruelty and none of us should have to endure it. What is wrong with our spouses that they think they can treat their families and loved ones this way????

I don't know. No one wanted to save our relationship more than me, but also, I feel too much and it's hard to truly detach when you are interacting with them and all you want is for them to come home and be the person/best friend you remember.

I just burst into sobs at my desk writing this. I am so sorry we all have to go through this with somebody we love - it's heartbreaking.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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Mozza, it sounds heart-wrenching. Based on what I've read here so far is you need to stay strong and comport yourself as an independent, strong person, despite how impossible that may seem. If she is addressing divorce logistics, have suggestions and express your opinions/thoughts assertively and constructively. All business. Before you meet with her it may be good to do something that makes you feel strong and confident so you can ride that attitude into the discussion.

You can do it. Stay strong, and be the insightful intelligent guy she fell in love with. Do it for you. Good luck.


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Mozza - obviously it's up to you, but if you feel it's not the best thing to meet at the moment, you can always say so....Or you could suggest something that feels a little less full on - coffee maybe?

You could also let her know that you only have a limited amount of time, and very much keep the focus on the kids - not your R.

Also, all this talk about losing the love of your life etc - I find it just doesn't help to think that way. The sitch is hard enough without that. Just keep telling yourself, it's early days. I'll get through this etc. I found just thinking a few days ahead was all I could do and I didn't look any further ahead than that...

Best of luck anyway...


T 13 M 7
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BD 7.14 PA
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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks Zimmy, your message made me think. I also burst into tears several times since I got this email from W. One time was for the pain you mentioned: will I ever be able to talk to her like before? Then I realized that what I want is not to talk to her like before, it's to sob and share my pain with her. "Normal" communication is to chit chat, joke around, etc. Perhaps that's something she's interested in. I need to set my sights on a normal interaction, not on the open heart that my emotions are craving (and that would destroy all hopes). Instead of seeing it as holding back, I should think of it as an opportunity to interact "normally" with her, as I crave it.

You've been through an awful ordeal with these false hopes. It keeps me on my guard. Thanks for sharing. And you're not the only one crying at the office...

Originally Posted By: Zimmy
What is wrong with our spouses that they think they can treat their families and loved ones this way????
I can't even be upset at my W for the way she handles the whole thing. Honestly, knowing her, she's doing her best. She limits her communications, she got upset only once in a month, she didn't make any trouble when she picked up furniture (left thousands behind), she doesn't give me false hopes, she tries to get a hold of her emotions around me, etc. The pain that she inflicts, often she's unlikely to be aware of it. I'm hypersensitive and can cry for an hour after she asks me a question unrelated to us. What can she do?

Originally Posted By: Tarheel
In all seriousness, stay upbeat and confident. You can always cut lunch short by saying you have an appointment or need to be somewhere.
Good point.

I think what I need to prepare for this lunch is to see where it fits into the timeline. At this stage, I probably still need to give her space. If we ever grow closer, it will be further down the road. If I manage to build a timeline showing me where this lunch stands (early in the process), I should be able to manage it. Still, I will need all the help I can get to prep for it!

By the way, I decided to offer to meet a week from now (patience!) at a restaurant between our workplaces, not in front of her workplace like last time (a month ago). It's a way to establish myself as my own person, to show her that I'm not waiting for her to call all the shots.


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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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I can't be the first one to think of this: Why don't we all switch seats and go handle someone else's sitch? We seem so much better at it. I've no fear of your W and H!


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That's brilliant. My ex is all yours! I bet we would be a heck of a lot more successful that way...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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I just had a very weird phone call from my W.

She texted me at 9:20 pm: "I need to talk to you". On the phone, she announced that she wants to change the godmother of our oldest D from my cousin and his wife to her divorced friend who was here in the days just before my wife announced that she wanted out. We'll call her Anna (name is changed). Here's what I wrote in my original message.

Originally Posted By: Mozza
There were a few triggers. First, she started a job at a start-up a month before she left. She found there people who valued and complimented her. It's the kind of place with a live-in dog, chess boards, Playstations, social clubs, drinks at the office on Friday afternoon, etc. She bonded with her colleagues who are younger, free, fun, etc. She was happy at work and not at home. Second, a long-divorced friend came to stay with us for 5 days and told her that I'm not good enough for my W, that her divorce was a liberation for her. Two days later, my wife asked for a separation.
My W explained that Anna is a good role model for her daughters because she's a strong woman, she does what she wants and she doesn't follow the traditional model of the cute couple. And by the way, she's also done with that model.

Anna is indeed an admirable person in many ways. She's an accomplished engineer with a strong drive, intelligence, wit and many activities. She also has a bad temper and had a fallout with my W a few years ago because she embarrassed my W during an outing with her loud mouth. When my W complained to her afterwards, Anna replied that she is who she is and that if my W didn't accept it, then she didn't want to talk to her. It was mended a year or two later. Another time, my W was upset because Anna flirted with her father when they met at our house. It was nevertheless a surprise when she announced her desire to visit us for 5 days over Labor Day (we live far away now), but she turned out to be an awesome guest (little did I know...). And I should probably note that said friend is very liberated sexually — she sleeps with a lot of men, as far as I can tell. Her divorce was bad: it happened because of a huge fight and her husband just gave up and never looked back.

So as much as I admire this woman, I don't find her a good role model for my daughters. She has a narcissistic bent that just isn't conducive to deep relationships. I'm not very traditional and I can accept that she's her own woman, but the problem is what my wife sees in her. Also, this is a radical change of heart. Here's what my W wrote 3.5 years ago about Anna:

"I need to talk to Anna and tell her that D's birthday is for kids and I'm not comfortable about how she behaved with my dad [she flirted]. I'll tell her about the 1-year birthday of D and how she arrived with a "friend" [inappropriate outfit and not invited anyway], an hour late (dressed like a [censored] but this I might not mention), with a bottle of alcohol."

And now, she wants her as the godmother of the same child. Can someone tell me what's happening with my W? Has she seen the light or fallen into the darkness?

I feel I have to give in and accept the change. My W also framed it as a question of fairness because our two daughters have godparents on my side. Anyway, my W doesn't understand what it means to be a godmother or tutor so she probably won't even think of the implications. She won't ask to sign anything. It's symbolic for her. Denying her request would be to disapprove of her current behavior and she's not ready for that, at all.

By the way, her tone was slightly aggressive, over-hyped. She was speaking very fast and wouldn't accept any resistance. She got slightly angry when I asked her to explain why and I had to tell her that there was no need for this. I kept my cool throughout.

I'm wondering if she recently turned bipolar. I've a little experience with such people and part of her behavior matches, but it's a stretch to diagnose her based on so little information. She was taking antidepressant in the months leading to the separation and I know she skipped them a few times after she moved.

Thoughts? I'm puzzled.


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Man, that's tough. I have had those thoughts about my W too, just seeing such a weird shift in her priorities and logic, and the ways in which she seemed to be filtering out any negative opinions about her behavior and gaining positive reinforcement wherever she could, which is what the bipolar brain does to fuel it's delusions (I've seen it firsthand with my sister). But I don't know, having read more about affair fog and it's attendant chemical ingredients, I feel that's more likely.

I can empathize with your feelings about her friend. My W has a BFF who she seems to see as her spiritual guru. This woman is nice enough, but she is completely unable to live in the real world. She left her H for an OM (one of HS best friends??? And also my Ws '11 AP???) She has chronic health issues, doesn't work, she's a great mom but seems to be either really on or totally off. I texted her to get our kids together a couple of weekends ago, she responded "I'm camping in northern cal! It's beautiful here!" I texted her a WEEK later to get the kids together, she responded "I'm still camping!" Ok then. I can totally empathize with your frustration with your W having this bizarre new moral compass that belongs to someone else who needs just as much or more help than she does.

Unfortunately I have no advice. But man I really identify with your situation, and I think you're handling it well. I think you're right not to fight this, it's not the fight you really want to have.


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
I feel I have to give in and accept the change

Why? Do you feel you have to give in because ultimately you're trying to win your W back and this may 'soften' her?'

Think of how you'd respond to this request if you were happily M. If you don't feel comfortable with the person W has chosen, I think you need to speak up. Would you feel comfortable with this woman raising your D's?

I think an email response is the best course of action. Validate your W's point of view, but strongly outline your reasons you feel the way you do. For fairness sake, maybe suggest someone on W's side of the family? This should be a joint decision (as tough as that may be right now), not W's alone.



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