My wife sent me an email about the kids' costumes (I bought them this week-end). She asked me if I would be wearing one. I explained what I have and asked if she was wearing one. I was happy - not optimistic, just happy - about this casual exchange because we haven't had one in a few days.
My W never wore a Halloween costume and doesn't wear anything sexy. I'm now wondering if she set me up with her question. In any case, it hurts. I've already seen on Facebook that her plan is to do a pub crawl (6 pubs in one night) with her colleagues that night (I'll have the kids). My W who didn't like alcohol, who wouldn't dress sexy, who wouldn't dress up for Halloween... Who is she and why couldn't she be that person with me: I had nothing against costumes, alcohol and sexy. Seriously, what are the chances that this drunken evening doesn't end up in a bed? Sigh. Gotta be strong.
As most of you might feel, in my mind this is just my wife walking around, available to other men. It's not my ex, it's not an old girlfriend. I'm still so attached to her that it feels more like my feelings have soared through the sitch, my attachment is stronger than ever. That's what makes it so hard. And I have no power whatsoever to stop her. Anything I might say against it would push her further away. I have to take it with a straight face (or silence).
I did not make any mention of her costume in my reply. Now, let's go cry a little...
(Thanks all for your insights and responses. I'll reply later. Right now, I'm digesting the Halloween costume...)
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
You've only been at this for one month and need someone already? If you don't love yourself enough and need someone else to "make" you feel happy, then you might as well sign the papers now and do it cleanly.
Aouch. I did not say I want someone already and in fact, I don't. Oddly, I don't find any girl attractive since my W left. I look for her in all of them. jim0987 brought up dating and I shared my thoughts and questions about the DB approach.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Thanks for sharing your reflections. Make sure you also save them on your own computer for later. It's a difficult exercise, I'm sure. Some might say that it diverts your energy from looking at the future. For now, I say we can't help thinking about the past and what went wrong and I see value in this. As you can tell, I'm still trying to figure out where the faults lie in my own separation. Hopefully, that will help us know what we should change and what's beyond our control.
A few quick notes on what worked and what didn't.
Didn't work. * Begging, pleased, crying. We talked for a week before I relented and every day it got worse. Day one, separation was an option; day 2 it was the main option; day 3 it was the only option. By the last day, it was the first step to a divorce (she backed off a few days later).
* Being nice and affectionate to her. She turned quite mean at a time. She offered sex, I jumped, then she rescinded. Should would tell me she was uncomfortable, tell me to talk with friends instead, etc.
* Being deaf to her complaints, prior to the separation. She told me almost nothing new when she announced her desire to leave. I feel like a fool for not seeing it coming.
* Not reading about marriage and couple dynamics, believing that I could just wing it, especially after W had an A in 2009. Now I'm flooded with information, but it might not be enough.
Worked * Nothing? Well, nothing slowed down her departure a bit, so I'm wondering what I can consider to be effective.
* Letting go. On Sept 11 (a date that will live in infamy...), I abandoned and told her that she could go if she wanted to. She was surprised by that and, in the middle of the night, came to cuddle in our bed. We made love. Twice and for hours. This is what convinced me to look more into DB-like methods. (but she left anyway!)
* Crying, pleading, begging. It worked in 2009. This year, she told me once that she had doubts at some point when she saw how much hurt she was causing. But then, in the morning, her resolve would be back. Makes me wonder if I should have showed my pain more.
* Going dark (well, with 2 kids...). It has helped me reduce my expectations and sadness. Since I don't make any requests, nor even suggestions, I can't be disappointed. And I'm hypersensitive to this. For instance, I once put a hat she had left home on a top of things she had requested and was going to pick up outside the apartment. When I saw that she left the hat and took the rest, I was crushed for hours.
Our separation is cordial. She doesn't seem to do anything to hurt me on purpose. Sure, she's clumsy and hurts me regularly (see the Officer Payne episode above...), but she's never mean, like I've seen in some other stories here. We act as two people in pain who keep their distances to avoid further pain. She's much more upbeat than me, but I manage to be neutral, detached, in my communications with her.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Tonight, I'm haunted by the Halloween costume. It's not even the potential actions that bother me most, it's the intention behind it. She's buying an S&M costume to get drunk across town with her colleagues. For what?? Who is that woman? She was barely drinking alcohol before because she didn't like the taste and effect (and she takes medication for which it is proscribed -- she doesn't care), she never wore a Halloween costume with me, she didn't dress sexy ever. How much and what can I forgive if given the chance? We're still married and she's planning to be on the prowl! How can she turn on me so quickly? How can she abandon our projects, half her kids, take away half their mom, half their dad? What's so great about drinking and partying at her age? What are her values? Emotions? Priorities? Why oh why do I love her still?
Right now, I feel she wants this separation to be final. It's just a matter of time: she'll bring up the divorce when she's ready (because I won't have the balls, so she'll remain in control). She has no regards for me. She wants to remain cordial, but her mind is made up. I've seen it before: the same look of duty as if she were taking out the trash. Taking deep breaths, trying to stay concentrated because it's the polite thing to do, keeping it short, but just waiting for it all to be over.
I'm a fool for hoping, for even being here. It's all in my head. I should abandon all hope, protect myself, move on, make it quick. I'm still in the denial stage. I refuse to see that she has packed her bags and gone. And that she likely met someone already (apparently they all lie, so she must have lied to me about this). If she regrets, it will be so late and after so many Halloweens that I won't be able to take her back anyway. She wrecked the life I had planned for myself and my children (and her) and now she goes around, happy as a clam and planning a sexy Halloween. In the meantime, I'll trick or treat with the kids, which she hates doing anyway. All the more reasons for her to be happy about the separation! Close call!
We'll never have our inside jokes again, I wont be touching her skin, I won't be traveling with her, I won't take her to a show or to see good friends. It' all over. Fast as a car accident and as irreversible.
I can't believe the downs are as down as they were at the beginning. I'm tired to hurt, very tired. I cry because I'm tired of crying. They say it gets better and it's true. They don't tell you it also remains just as bad.
Last edited by Mozza; 10/22/1404:21 AM.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza: I know how you feel - it's like your best friend / spouse has been replaced by an imposter. The good and bad news is that THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. This is not becasue you did anything so wrong or aren't good enough or that your old relationship wasn't real. The issue is entirely within your wife - she is really messed up right now and lost and all the bad and selfish facets of her character are in full rebellion as she is trying to find herself, though it is clear to all of us that she is self-destructing. You can't stop this, you didn't break her, and you can't fix it right now. She is in crazytown right now and the only thing you can do is not get sucked into this with her.
Don't think about Halloween. You are only building up demons in your head that are most likly worse than the truth. Plus, think about it: she only told you to get a rise out of you, which sort of means that she cares about your reaction - hmmm, interesting.
Breathe. Take a step back and realize that there is something she is trying to figure out about herself and her life right now and you have to let her do that if you want her to find her way back to you.
Engaged Aug 2009 Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010 Happily re-engaged July 2012 Discovery of affair July 2014 Separated July 2014 Fiancé is confused about whom to choose Chose the OW Oct 2014
I think you're blowing the costume up too much. If it doesn't seem like her, that's because it isn't her. She is experimenting with testing new boundaries. That's all. In a way, you have too see yourself on the same path, just handling it differently. She might see something you're doing differently now and thinking "huh, that doesn't sound like him". My w just got a kinda severe haircut and dyed it reddish. It looks....weird. Par for the course.
Last edited by 1foot2; 10/22/1404:45 AM.
M: 33 W: 33 M: 9 T: 10 3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5 BD: 8/3/14 Living together
(Nooo! I lost a post I've been working on for 45 minutes...)
I feel as pessimistic as last night. I've been going through threads of people going through rough times. BigMac just filed for divorce himself as things took a turn for the worse. Zimmy is facing the imminent sale of our dream house (really sorry for you Zimmy, really). Tarheel has slipped again.
It seems like my fate is to watch things get worse until the relationship is gone, the separation and the divorce are complete. I can't see another way right now. We're barely talking anymore and drifting apart (or breathing? healing? detoxing?). Believing that things outside of my control can be improved by my actions is fooling myself, it's delaying the unavoidable pain. Oh, my love...
I probably need to go in the piecing section more often, but it's awfully quiet. There's a very nice post by Heart14 today though. It gives hope.
It's funny how I just told BigMac that it's a multi-year process and that it's not over until he chooses so, yet I can't apply this reasoning to my own situation.
W asked for a call tonight to sort out some government work regarding the kids (unrelated to separation). I managed to escape it by giving another, email-based, solution. I don't trust myself for anything more than being silent.
Originally Posted By: 1foot2
I think you're blowing the costume up too much. If it doesn't seem like her, that's because it isn't her. She is experimenting with testing new boundaries. That's all. In a way, you have too see yourself on the same path, just handling it differently. She might see something you're doing differently now and thinking "huh, that doesn't sound like him". My w just got a kinda severe haircut and dyed it reddish. It looks....weird. Par for the course.
Thanks for your words of reason and comfort. I find it hard to see her changing without me and finding happiness in it. It makes me feel like I was the impediment.
Originally Posted By: Zimmy
The issue is entirely within your wife - she is really messed up right now and lost and all the bad and selfish facets of her character are in full rebellion as she is trying to find herself, though it is clear to all of us that she is self-destructing. You can't stop this, you didn't break her, and you can't fix it right now. She is in crazytown right now and the only thing you can do is not get sucked into this with her.
How I wish you're right... But it feels so good to think so that I suspect it's self-serving. She doesn't seem like someone self-destructing. She seems to have fun, to accomplish new things she couldn't do with me (why?).
I probably need to focus more on me, to GAL. I've had other ideas added to the list. I'll mention them when I'm doing them. For the week, keeping up with work and the kids (and these forums) is plenty.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
It's funny how I just told BigMac that it's a multi-year process and that it's not over until he chooses so, yet I can't apply this reasoning to my own situation.
It's easier to be rational when you're not emotionally invested. That's why some people that can be objective and give GREAT advice to others are pretty bad about taking their own advice.
It's also why people here talk about DETACHING. I remind myself nightly that what and who BF is doing doesn't matter -- he's out of our R and it's none of my business.
You'll get there. What we're going through isn't easy. It's painful and it's emotional. Be goal-oriented and mindful of your actions, but kind to yourself when your humanity shows itself.
ME: 38 BF: 40 T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice) BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R. 10/1/14: I move out, BF lies about move in with OW 12/4/14: OW confronted, reveals all the lies
It's so funny how clearly I see your situation, but when I apply my evaluation to mine, I am deeply biased to the negative.
She definitely IS self-destructing. Of course she doesn't see that right now. But think about the facts:
* She is acting erratic * She is throwing her family away and a man that truly loves and is willing to fight for her - THAT IS NOT NORMAL. I think that we all think that this is normal becasue we are in the midst of it, blaming ourselves and see the others on this board going through it, BUT THIS IS NOT NORMAL MATURE, COMPASSIONATE HUMAN BEHAVIOR. MOST OF US ARE DEALING WITH VERY FLAWED SPOUSES WHO ARE DOING TERRIBLE SELFISH THINGS! * She is confused about life * She is acting like a teenager; seems to me that she is in some sort of ID crisis or early MLC
What I said about this being her issue was 100% right. You need to say that to yourself every day, as I do. Talk to a therapist if you haven't already. Maybe you weren't perfect in your relationship, but from what i've read you were a good husband and NOBODY IS PERFECT. I'm all about owning your flaws and mistakes and working on making yourself a better person, but sometimes you can be amazing and for whatever reason, your partner has their own issues and they need to sort them out with you or WITH ANYBODY - those issues will always catch up with them and they need to work it out.
As my DB coach told me last night, there is something that both he and I (and you and her) need to learn out of this process. In our partners' cases, there is something appealing about this other life that they need to explore, and right now because they aren't living in full reality, they are enjoying the novelty. But sooner or later, that novelty will wear off, and hopefully then, they will come to some realizations about their values, themselves and what's really important in life. You could have been Russel Crowe (the Gladiator version) and you couldn't have stopped her from doing this.
Fundamentally, at the end of her introspection, if this is the life she really wants at the end of the day, then maybe she has changed and is not the person you need for you or your kids - she doesn't value fidelity, family and loyalty and never will, regardless of who she is with. She is not worthy of YOU. But unless she is total monster, I do believe that she will look back someday when she is older and think to herself, my goodness, what was I thinking?
Also, you mentioned that she had narcissistic traits - if that is the case, it is a true character flaw and one that she will need to address head on herself. That will take time and work on her part. You can't do it for her.
Engaged Aug 2009 Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010 Happily re-engaged July 2012 Discovery of affair July 2014 Separated July 2014 Fiancé is confused about whom to choose Chose the OW Oct 2014
W just wrote "Care to have lunch soon to talk about kids, etc?" It was after I replied to her one-liner about some drama in the news (my parents think she turns to me every time safety is involved).
I can't see clearly and I can't bear the mere possibility that our R will take another step back. Last lunch date, it was mostly just chit chat with 20% talk of emotions, mostly from her. I controlled what I said, going no further than "I feel like a man who lost the love of his life" when she asked -- now it feels like it was too much. But my attitude was pathetic: I was tired and looked sad (but I dressed up and she noticed). I always thought she's the most beautiful girl in the world - I would say that often, not just to her - and sometimes I'd lose track of the conversation, just looking at her. This cannot happen again. I need to be upbeat, in control. I'm not concerned about fighting, as I lost all will to fight with her the day she said ILYBINILWY.
I've no choice but to accept her invitation, likely suggesting next week. A friend told me I could suggest something shorter than a lunch since these things can be handled quick. He's really afraid that I will crumble in front of her and destroy the little progress I made through days of painful silence. I'd rather get prepared real good and go through with it. After all, we're supposed to accept seeing them when they take the initiative, right? That's how we show (don't tell) our changes, no?
I'm outside of my comfort zone (silence) so advice is very welcome...
(thanks Little and Zimmy for the replies, I'll respond as soon as I sorted out this invitation)
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
