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#2499193 10/21/14 06:53 PM
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So here we are at thread 5.

I'm feeling a little peeved that this weekend WAW is off on a jolly again. This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids.

I just got off the phone with her in which we discussed this weekend. S12 has a sleepover on Friday evening and she wanted to check that was OK with me: I suppose that's something, that she checked first.

I rocked a solid PMA and talked about the logistocs of her trip: where to leave the car at the train station so I could pick it up on the way home.

And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined. He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc.

I got another couple of books in the post yesterday.
  • 'My wife doesn't love me any more' by Andrew G Marshall. A companion book to his 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' but targeted at men of course (I think there's one for women as well).
  • 'His needs, her needs' by Willard F Harley - which of course you probably all know about.
I also discovered WAW has a couple of new books by her bedside:
  • 'A new earth' by Eckhart Tolle - Tolle is known for his mindfulness books. The one before this one, 'The power of now' is on the bookshelf at my work flat and is my reading list.
  • 'The up side of down' by Megan McArdle - which says 'Why Failing Well Is the Key to Success'
I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago.

I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship. I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said.


Last edited by Old Dog; 10/21/14 06:54 PM.

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Old dog. When you read the books you are you'll see that a lot of it is always about improving yourself just from a different slant. After all the only thing we can truly control is ourselves.

Adapt by Tim Harford is another book that says the sane thing from an economics perspective


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"This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids."

So your kids aren't worth your "valuable" days off. Nice to see you value your kids so much. How about creating an adventure with them that will be fun for you too. If you thought your children were going to be such a burden, you shouldn't have had them in the first place. You do understand that they are trying to process everything too right? How about a little compassion.

"And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined."

Wow nice way to talk about your own child. You do understand that your children are the product of the parents. That's your doing how he turned out. At your age, there's bound to be a disconnect between you two. How about strengthening the bond with him rather than dismissing him as a lost cause.

"He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc."

Have you learned nothing from DB? Do something different if what was tried before didn't work.

"I got another couple of books in the post yesterday."

How about a parenting book while you're at it. There is a 5LL book for children that can help you alot with your son.

'I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship."

Your M/R is based off her personal life. If she doesn't love herself or can't find fulfillment in herself, your M will not work. That's what you don't seem to understand. That's why we say that it's HER journey and not yours.

"I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said."

If you feel annoyed, angry, resentful, etc., what you're doing isn't detaching.


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Originally Posted By: jim0987
Old dog. When you read the books you are you'll see that a lot of it is always about improving yourself just from a different slant. After all the only thing we can truly control is ourselves.


Yes, I can see from what I've already read that there is a theme that runs through them all. In the end, it proably doesn't matter which one you choose if you just apply it.


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Aha! Another challenging post from MrBond ;-)

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids."

So your kids aren't worth your "valuable" days off. Nice to see you value your kids so much. How about creating an adventure with them that will be fun for you too. If you thought your children were going to be such a burden, you shouldn't have had them in the first place. You do understand that they are trying to process everything too right? How about a little compassion.


Er that's not what I meant. The day off is valuable because I don't have too many of them and I'm running out. I do value and love my kids, they are beautiful and wonderful. And I have been thinking of something fun to do with them this weekend. I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined."

Wow nice way to talk about your own child. You do understand that your children are the product of the parents. That's your doing how he turned out. At your age, there's bound to be a disconnect between you two. How about strengthening the bond with him rather than dismissing him as a lost cause.

"He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc."


Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it. Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed. He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more socialable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause. I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
Have you learned nothing from DB? Do something different if what was tried before didn't work.

"I got another couple of books in the post yesterday."

How about a parenting book while you're at it. There is a 5LL book for children that can help you alot with your son.


You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different. But yes, what we're doing isn't working too well, it's time to try a new approach. And so ...

I did notice there was a 5LL book for children. That is a good idea. I will get it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
'I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship."

Your M/R is based off her personal life. If she doesn't love herself or can't find fulfillment in herself, your M will not work. That's what you don't seem to understand. That's why we say that it's HER journey and not yours.

"I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said."

If you feel annoyed, angry, resentful, etc., what you're doing isn't detaching.


I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her.

And I know it's not true detachment, but I sense there is an improvement. In fact it's quite a big improvement, I'm not so cuaght up with my own ego as before.

Thanks for coming by MrBond. You help me see things a little more clearly. I've still got a long way to go, but at least I have the gift of time.


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Hmmm a very quick turnaround once you are called out. The thing is to stop the "stinking thinking" BEFORE it comes out.

"Er that's not what I meant. The day off is valuable because I don't have too many of them and I'm running out. I do value and love my kids, they are beautiful and wonderful. And I have been thinking of something fun to do with them this weekend."

Good.

"I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example."

They don't have to be showing outward signs of being "anxious". I can guarantee you that they are. They're scared but won't show it.

"Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it."

You just did... (He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined.) Would you let a stranger call him those things? If you heard a stranger talk call their child that in public, what would you think of that father?

"Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed."

This is because of your situation. He feels like he is going to lose the two of you. This is a good thing for the WRONG reasons.

"He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more socialable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause."

Then stop calling him names. There's a name for people who name call others - a bully. And when it comes from a parent to their child, it's called ABUSE.

"I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it."

He's doing it to spend time with you because of your situation.

"You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different."

That's not what doing something means. It doesn't mean to do something different than what YOUR parents did, but to do something different from what you were doing with him.

"I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her."

Doesn't seem like it. After all, you said... (I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago. I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship.)

Stop the negative thinking BEFORE it starts. Treat others as you would want them to treat you.


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Hmmm a very quick turnaround once you are called out. The thing is to stop the "stinking thinking" BEFORE it comes out.


Yes, that would be good.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example.”

They don't have to be showing outward signs of being "anxious". I can guarantee you that they are. They're scared but won't show it.


So do you think I should ask them what they feel about it or wait until they want to say something? I was thinking, if I wait, they may never say anything and let it fester which wouldn’t be good.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it.”

You just did... (He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined.) Would you let a stranger call him those things? If you heard a stranger talk call their child that in public, what would you think of that father?


He doesn’t read this forum so it’s safe to say that in private. As I said we don’t put him down at all.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed."

This is because of your situation. He feels like he is going to lose the two of you. This is a good thing for the WRONG reasons.


I’m not sure about that as he started being more sociable quite a long time before we told them about us. I hope he doesn’t feel like he’s going to lose us. We tried to reassure them they wouldn’t.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more sociable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause."

Then stop calling him names. There's a name for people who name call others - a bully. And when it comes from a parent to their child, it's called ABUSE.


As above, we do not call him names. We only ever offer positive reinforcement and encouragement.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it."

He's doing it to spend time with you because of your situation.


:-) if only. He’s always done this. It’s nothing new. It's always been a struggle. OK. do something different I hear you say.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different."

That's not what doing something means. It doesn't mean to do something different than what YOUR parents did, but to do something different from what you were doing with him.


Yes I know. But I was just thinking, what my parents did didn’t work.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her."

Doesn't seem like it. After all, you said... (I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago. I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship.)

Stop the negative thinking BEFORE it starts. Treat others as you would want them to treat you.


Well, at the moment, I am thinking these things. But I can also recognise these thoughts, see them for what they are and choose how to react to them. I do not show any sign of impatience or annoyance, only understanding. I said to her on the phone this evening ‘I hope you have a great time this weekend’. However, I do still feel upset that she won’t consider working going to MC or working on our relationship, I think it’s only natural, but I also know you’re right, she does need to feel good about herself: we both do before anything further can happen.

In writing this suff down, instead of speaking, it can be difficult to convey tone and feeling. I sometimes think I could have explained that better, maybe someone will get the wrong end of the stick, but as I said earlier, it does help clarify things.


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"So do you think I should ask them what they feel about it or wait until they want to say something? I was thinking, if I wait, they may never say anything and let it fester which wouldn’t be good."

Of course you should talk to them and ask them how they feel. They may shrug their shoulders and say 'okay'. But don't believe them. If YOU can't handle it as an adult, try to see it through their eyes. They don't have the life experience to know how to handle this. Talk to them. I can't believe you haven't done so.

"He doesn’t read this forum so it’s safe to say that in private. As I said we don’t put him down at all."

That's not what I meant. you said that you don't "imply" it. I'm saying that you do. You may not say it directly to his face, but you think it which is worse. Like I said, if a stranger come up and start saying that to your child, how would you feel?

"I hope he doesn’t feel like he’s going to lose us. We tried to reassure them they wouldn’t."

Of course he feels like he's going to lose you. YOU need to constantly reassure them. I mean, look at your W and you. Both of you are going off and doing your own thing while leaving them with whoever is home. They are being tossed between you two like a tennis ball and a burden.

"As above, we do not call him names. We only ever offer positive reinforcement and encouragement."

And as above, it doens't matter that you don't call him that to his face. You think that which makes you a lousy parent. If you think your child is a loser it will come out in your actions. The fact that you don't see anything wrong about thinking that your son is a "an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined" is troubling. All of the thoughts of an abusive parent.


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OK, I take all your points above and I will talk to them and see if they're willing to discuss it.

However, when I read what you've said, especially the 'abusive parent' bit it sounds terrible. It really isn't like that, so please don't think they are living in misery, they aren't.

They are happy, they do laugh and joke, they rarely fight with each other and if they have disagreements, it doesn't turn nasty. We do try our very best, despite our own problems, to teach them love, understanding, compassion, everything you would expect from good parents.


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Zeus - a lot of how you describe your son describes me as a kid and its only now am I realising the impact all that had on me.

He needs to know that whatever happens you love him and are proud of him


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I notice that you have a knack of taking what is said and misdirecting it so that you are absolved from responsibility. Go back and read what I posted.

"However, when I read what you've said, especially the 'abusive parent' bit it sounds terrible. It really isn't like that, so please don't think they are living in misery, they aren't."

I didn't say they were living in misery (that's your own diversion). I said that YOUR thinking and attitude that your son is "He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined" is the same thinking and attitude as that of an abusive parent.

While you may not treat him as such, because your attitude of him is that, it will come out in your actions. If you were a real father, you wouldn't paint such a lowly picture of him. Again, that's all on YOU.

Learn to take responsibility for your thoughts and actions.


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Originally Posted By: jim0987
Zeus - a lot of how you describe your son describes me as a kid and its only now am I realising the impact all that had on me.

He needs to know that whatever happens you love him and are proud of him


Zeus? :-)

Anyway he does know that I'm quite sure.


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Originally Posted By: MrBond
I notice that you have a knack of taking what is said and misdirecting it so that you are absolved from responsibility. Go back and read what I posted.


Well I don't mean to do that and it's certainly not to be absolved from responsibility.

Originally Posted By: Old Dog
I"However, when I read what you've said, especially the 'abusive parent' bit it sounds terrible. It really isn't like that, so please don't think they are living in misery, they aren't."


Originally Posted By: MrBond
I didn't say they were living in misery (that's your own diversion). I said that YOUR thinking and attitude that your son is "He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined" is the same thinking and attitude as that of an abusive parent.

While you may not treat him as such, because your attitude of him is that, it will come out in your actions. If you were a real father, you wouldn't paint such a lowly picture of him. Again, that's all on YOU.

Learn to take responsibility for your thoughts and actions.


I'm not trying to divert anyone or anything. I do believe many many people get frustrated with their kids, especially over things like school/home work. And these people moan with their friends about it and they may laugh and compare notes maybe saying oh no mine is worse (s)he does this or that. This is not the same thinking or attitude as an abusive parent. You are wrong about that in is case.

There is always room for improvement, and I will get the 5LL book for teenagers, but I am not worried in the slightest about my/our own attitude and thinking towards him. We love him dearly and tell him so. We help him with his work, we have fun with him and enjoy his company. He is a delight to be with and in all other aspects he is a well rounded individual, has a good grasp of right and wrong and were are very proud of him.

I feel this conversation is rather a distraction now. It's not something I thought would blow up like this and I don't feel the need to try and explain myself any further. I hope you understand I'm not dismissing your advice or insight but I think we're doing a good job on the whole.


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See, you're not getting it still.

"but I am not worried in the slightest about my/our own attitude and thinking towards him."

My whole point is that you SHOULD be worried about it because of your name calling. If you had a positive attitude towards him, those labels wouldn't have even crossed your mind.

It is an important point because this also happens in your interactions with your W. The LBS may not think that their negative thinking about WAS comes out just because they don't say anything negative, but it does come out in other ways. Body language, the tone of your voice, etc. Sandi was one of the first people who taught me that "the way" something is said more important than the words themselves. This helps to create a trusting environment between you and your W.

Learn from that or not. It's up to you.


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Got which thread I was in confused. Sorry


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No worries Jim :-)

MrBond. Maybe 'not worried in the slightest' was over egging it a bit, but honestly I do know what you're talking about. I read recently that perhaps up to 90% do communication between people is not expressed vocally. So I am aware of this.

I do have a positive attitude towards him, I don't go round all the time bad mouthing him. What I trying to convey is that at times it's frustrating and worrying that he won't seem to help himself by doing the work he's supposed to without being policed.

I am here to learn. I do get it. As I said, I take your point. I want a positivity spiral rather than a negative one and this is all part of it, so I'll bear in mind what you say. And thanks for persevering.


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Back at home. I've had to take a day off to look after the kids while WAW is away for another long weekend, this time at a party in Spain. We're going out in a while to race Scalextrix cars round models of real racing circuits which should be a lot of fun.

I am, however having to work hard at keeping PMA today. I found this last time she went off for the weekend. I'm trying to keep busy: it took me a long time last time, but I've started earlier today (not just now).

She is having more fun these days - going out, seeing friends, buying shoes and clothes. I'm glad she is doing all this but also sad and trying not to be resentful about it. I'm much better than I used to be though. I know it's good for her and I also need to the same.

It is hard though when she is cutting me out of so many things: keeping her distance, giving me space. The only contact she initiates is to do with the kids or something logistical.

Right, stuff to do, then we're off for some fun. Onwards and upwards everyone.


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Back at my work flat for the week now. I had a good weekend getting a life with the kids. Scalextrix racing one day followed by a trip to the local golden arches (well they like it).

On Saturday we went to Parrot Zoo where they rescue parrots funnily enough. They have around 2,000 birds. Wow! Following that we went round my brothers for dinner and then down the pub for a swift beverage with him afterwards. Stayed the night at my mums: she's always glad when I do that. Mums eh :-).

Today we took my mum down to the garden centre for some stuff and had lunch there.

Finally, I had an upbeat text convo with my wife after she arrived back in the country from her trip. Seems she had a good time but didn't furnish me with any details.

Keep on GAL everyone: it really does work. You sometimes have to make a real effort, but do it. And do it now.

Last edited by Old Dog; 10/26/14 11:19 PM.

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What a great and positive weekend. Keep it up. I hope this helps to carry your PMA through the week.


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Cheers u-turn. It's going to be a good week, I just know it.

There's a talk show DJ over here who always says when someone asks him how he is 'all good, nothing bad'. I started saying that a while ago hoping some of the positivity would rub off. I think I'll start saying it again.

Everyone read Pollyanna.


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Old Dog, glad you had a great weekend. And to think we had to poke you into GAL. smile Now when are you getting that pedicure???

I'm not reading Pollyanna. But I have been happy and showing it.


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Here's something I been pondering.

My phone is so old. It's an iPhone 3g: not even a 3GS - they brought that out a month after I got it it. Doh!

Anyway, I've been thinking I should get a new one. I've been thinking this for so long that the iPhone 5(S) has come and gone so it'll be an iPhone 6. I am a huge Apple fan so any other make is out of the question (please don't rationalise, it just is).

I'm naturally cautious with spending large amounts of money which is why it's taken so long but another reason why I've held off for the past few months is that WAW is very keen for me to get one and I am resistant to doing what she says.

I tell myself - but not her - that a new iPhone won't bring me any happiness, and it won't. I will get one, I nearly got one last Thursday, but they didn't have any in stock!

I want to understand why I'm resistant to buying one if she is so keen. Any psychological theories anyone?


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I can't help you with a psychological theory OD, but from a tech standpoint I would steer clear of the 6 for a couple more months until the various bugs are worked out.. I do tech repairs as a hobby business and I have seen a few with various teething problems..

That is to be noted on any new tech though.. You would definitely need to upgrade from the 3 to make the most of the app offerings etc, but even the 4S is still selling and going strong, so the 5S might not be so bad..


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Resistance to feeling like your being controlled. You already feel like she has the power (whether to work on M) or not and so its touch of subconscious rebellion

The other thing to bear in mind is this quote

Happiness isn't having what you want, its wanting what you have.

Last edited by jim0987; 10/28/14 10:16 AM.

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1. I say forget trying to put a psychological theory on it and go for it. I bought an iPhone 6 a couple of weeks ago (upgraded from a 4S). Not gonna lie…it did bring me a little happiness. In fact I may well end up getting the Apple watch. The Apple enthusiast is back!

2. As for the theory, my guess is that you don't want to look like you caved to something that she wants you to do (you don't want to make her look right; how can she be after everything else?) But think that through…in trying to resist her, all you are doing is denying yourself of something that you want. See point 1.


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I will get a 6, but when I don't need any of my text messages from h as evidence! Lol
Once I don't need them any more the whole damn phone can be erased for all I care.


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Originally Posted By: Ggrass
I will get a 6, but when I don't need any of my text messages from h as evidence! Lol
Once I don't need them any more the whole damn phone can be erased for all I care.



You can snap a screen shot of a text conversation and save it as a picture. smile



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LMW. I know what you mean about early versions but I don't think I can wait any longer now :-)

I was considering buying it and not telling her but then again maybe I'm just being daft. It wouldn't be the first time.


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog


I was considering buying it and not telling her


OD, there's no reason she needs to know. I mean, it doesn't have to be a secret, but you don't have to show it off, either. And come on, it's a phone, not a new Maserati.

My iphone went swimming in a cup of coffee last weekend. It works just fine now, except everything is black and white.



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It's all happening at Old Dog's kennel.

I've booked a one day "feel the fear and do it anyway' workshop for the end of next month.

Also booked a two day course on JavaScript for a couple of weekends time.

And this evening went out for a couple of bevies, a curry and a gig - Belle and Sabesatian, who were utterly charming.

And coming up on the rails: an iPhone 6 purchase. I just have to find a store with one in stock which is easier said than done.

So that's how you do this GAL thing.


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And....when is the spa day booked? wink


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Originally Posted By: rppfl
Originally Posted By: Ggrass
I will get a 6, but when I don't need any of my text messages from h as evidence! Lol
Once I don't need them any more the whole damn phone can be erased for all I care.



You can snap a screen shot of a text conversation and save it as a picture. smile


I know that but 2 years worth of text it's easier to keep the phone, oh and h knows I can screen shot and text him pic of his old texts. He made a big point before I'd done that about how he had a brand new phone.

Oh yeah, I lost bucket loads of my old stuff. Was his tune. So I just screen shoted old messages and sent them back to him! Lol
That was the point he jumped to attention.


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Originally Posted By: raliced
And....when is the spa day booked? wink


You lot are relentless.


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That's because of how much you'll thank us once you get the nerve to do it.


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:-) I did actually google 'pedicure in work flat town' the other day but then chickened out.

I just signed up for yoga. Is that any good?

Last edited by Old Dog; 10/30/14 10:37 PM.

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Yoga ROCKS. Be sure you keep an eye on workshops too. Some that may look a little outside of your comfort zone can be amazing.

Just like a pedicure. wink


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Sounds like your doing better on the GAL front. Just a shame you tarnish it with an iPhone smile

At least if you have the pedicure you'll have a good talking point, that is surely worth it for 180 value alone.


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Back at home again. WAW picks me up from the train station half an hour away, but this time, instead of waiting in the car park, she's in the nearby department store buying an outfit for a work colleague's wedding she's going to tomorrow.

I get to the store and she's in the fitting room so I don't get to see what she's bought. Maybe I'll get a chance later to say she looks stunning but I've a feeling she's just going to pack it in a case to take with her because apparently she's staying overnight. This is news to me. I say it would have been nice to know to which she responds 'why, is that a problem?' sounding a little narked. I just say 'no, it would would have been nice to know'.

The house is untidy again, the suitcase she took away last weekend is still on the sofa in the kitchen diner, there's washing still in the washing machine and more stuff still in the tumble dryer and the ironing I did last weekend is still lying where I left it (I didn't have time to put it all away before I had to go).

So, I'm feeling a little disappointed and narked as well I suppose. I've had a good week though and I choose not to let this upset me. My mind still invent stupid things to worry about though I've what if she meets someone at the wedding. She staying overnight. Weddings are good places to meet people. I am choosing to ignore these kind of thoughts too.


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Oh and now she's retreated upstairs.


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Dammit. I do feel angry despite myself.

She has spent the rest of the evening avoiding me again and has now gone to bed.

It feels like she's doing her best to keep me at arms length no matter how friendly or approachable I try to be. And if I mention something she doesn't like she disappears for the rest of the evening.

I'm trying my best her woman. Cut me some slack please.


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"It feels like she's doing her best to keep me at arms length no matter how friendly or approachable I try to be. And if I mention something she doesn't like she disappears for the rest of the evening."

You can't keep trying to control her actions. If she doesn't want to interact with you, it's her choice. Just shrug your shoulders and stop putting her at the center of your actions.


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Thanks for checking on my thread, dog. I really appreciate it.
Don't let your wife's behavior throw you off. As you aptly noted, these emotions are all in our mind. We have to find a way to see them for what they are and let them go. It's hard to feel dismissed and ignored. To constantly feel like we are second-guessing their actions. Don't let her actions undermine your PMA!


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Yes. Just venting really. Sm I trying to control her actions? Perhaps I'm guilty of having some expectation that we could have a decent conversation. I'm just disappointed that it seems to be one step forward, two steps back at times.

My DB coach advised to treat her as you would a sister which I'm trying to do. Part of that is to try and engage more. I have complained to her a while ago that she disappears upstairs and goes to bed without telling me.

I should have rephrased that to say I would like it if we could spend some time together and just talk to each other. That would have been better.

I will carry on. Keep up my PMA. Stay cheerful and busy myself with things that need doing.

Actually I do have a question regarding things like the stuff I founpd in the washing machine and tumble dryer. Should I leave this and not 'rescue' her from having to wash it again as they've become smelly (this has happened before a few times) or do I get it done?


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Well I tend to leave it if the child has left his in there. I would take it out and throw it in a basket if you needed the washer if you don't then it's not my concern.


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It's likely to contain some of my stuff though. I guess that may make a difference.

'the child' :-)

Last edited by Old Dog; 11/01/14 10:46 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
Dammit. I do feel angry despite myself.

She has spent the rest of the evening avoiding me again and has now gone to bed.

It feels like she's doing her best to keep me at arms length no matter how friendly or approachable I try to be. And if I mention something she doesn't like she disappears for the rest of the evening.

I'm trying my best her woman. Cut me some slack please.


I do this, it's called reading a book for me, peace and quiet and avoiding confrontation and so I keep my feelings dark. I want H to leave me be. For my friend she detaches because she wants to do her Facebook.

I am a complete newbie but with due respect isn't it better than a bad place interaction. May be that is slack?
Regards
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/01/14 11:15 AM.

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Yeah, the child =s 16. I tend to use child on forums when he does childish silly stuff.

Yes today I found washing in the machine that's been there days! None of mine in it and as I didn't know it was put on.I didn't know to hang it out.

A disclaimer tho, my machine is in an outside laundry, so unless I go out there to put a load in I have no idea he has washed. Hence I don't check I don't hang out.


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Hi Vanilla, thanks for stopping by.

There is an elephant in the room at times due to the situation. She disappears because she feels awkward with the tension but I'm trying to ease that and I can't if I'm left on my own and I don't want to follow her.

I brought up the subject a while ago with her and said we need to improve communication and try to be friends again but it seems I'm the only one making an effort. I know this is to be expected for DBers but it is hard.

She's gone off now to her wedding. Won't be back till the same time tomorrow. I'm glad she's gone as I was feeling peeved about her withholding I formation from me again. I realised I was waiting for her to go. Now I can get on. I still put on a front and wished a good time.


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I started growing a Movember moustache today. I had a shave this morning and will cultivate the top lip for the next month in order 'to change the face of men's health'.

This is another 180 as I wouldn't be seen dead with a tache normally and I'm not one for taking part in this sort of charity stunt either.

Last edited by Old Dog; 11/01/14 01:30 PM.

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What would you lose by drawing back a little further? Not wishing her a good time, not trying to cultivate friendship, but giving her what she says she wants. Stopping pulling her towards you and see what happens?

Enjoy all your GAL. remember how many excuses you made for not doing any? Almost as many as you've made for dodging the pedicure. But I can see, your resistance is beginning to weaken. wink


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Suinta at old dog, I think I can see toe polish from here.

Can't you maybe? Lol grin

I've told the child (who is sulking in his room) I'm going off for a drive with my mate. Off to a place he wants to go, but I think given he's been out with his mates already all weekend last weekend and Friday night spending all day in bed he needs to catch up with stuff for his work experience job this week.

We are going out to tea later i suspect so he can come then, there is nothing in db that says I need to be joined at his hip. Which is nice for me.


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I went dark first of all but I abandoned that idea as it didn't seem to be working and when I rang my DB coach, he said that a lot of people recommend going dark on here but it's not necessarily the right option. He said imagine she is your sister and act accordingly. I am seeing a couple of friendly signs. I was just peeved that she's holding back. It's something I can't change and Ill have to deal with. Count to ten, shrug my shoulders as MrBond says and get over it.

As WAW is out enjoying herself, I took the kids out for dinner at the pub this evening and then we came back and watched Dr Who. And after that, I finally watched the Bourne Ultimatum which I borrowed from my brother years ago.

Do I have to have a pedicure? Don't I get any credit for doing Movember?


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And if I do pull back a bit, she won't be bothered: on the outside anyway. But she won't relent. She won't be drawn nearer, she's shown me that. She's stubborn, or is it resilient.


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I wasn't thinking of drawing back as a tactic for getting her attention. I thought it would be a good way for you to feel less reactive to her behavior.

When I first read your sitch my thought was that she was lonely with you away so much... Hence the "relationship has run its course" thing. That was how I felt when my H was always gone, that it didn't matter to him whether he was with me or away, especially as life at home was demanding with three tiny children and his travel was so glamorous. But you seem to be changing your effort and I haven't read about any responses she may be making so maybe I misunderstood what was going on?

Sure, I'll give you credit for the mustache. But don't expect too much, it's a lot less of a stretch for a guy to prove his testosterone with facial hair (my H is bearded!) than it is for him to prove it with a pedicure after all those strenuous protests. smile


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Originally Posted By: Maybell
I wasn't thinking of drawing back as a tactic for getting her attention. I thought it would be a good way for you to feel less reactive to her behavior.


Ah, I see. Well I am getting better at it. Finally. I'm no longer have heart ache every day, although it did come back yesterday. It's something I can use as a measurement of detachment as well though. I try not to show any disappointment and keep my PMA going despite what my mind it thinking.

Originally Posted By: Maybell
When I first read your sitch my thought was that she was lonely with you away so much... Hence the "relationship has run its course" thing. That was how I felt when my H was always gone, that it didn't matter to him whether he was with me or away, especially as life at home was demanding with three tiny children and his travel was so glamorous. But you seem to be changing your effort and I haven't read about any responses she may be making so maybe I misunderstood what was going on?


I think she was lonely, she must have been, but has got used to it and said the fact that we didn't communicate during the week is part of the proof she tells herself: so it wouldn't too big a deal for her if we did separate. It would be hard but she'd deal with it. She's working on herself as well. Going out, getting a advice from a life coach, reading books.

You may remember, I came across something she'd written in a notebook she'd left out dated the end of June

I worked tirelessly for 2 1/2 years to stabilse us, he worked to destabilise us. That part of him did.

This afternoon I realy got intouch with loneliness. You can fill your life with Hollywood films, with meals out - but at the end of the day you're left with loneliness. La soledad del alma (the solitude of the soul - translated by me/internet).

Almas gemelas (twin souls - translated by me/internet again) torn asunder? I don't know about that anymore. But it does feel like it this evening.


Despite this, she has not shown any sign of relenting her stance. But I am trying to diffuse any toxic atmosphere by being more like old self.

Originally Posted By: Maybell
Sure, I'll give you credit for the mustache. But don't expect too much, it's a lot less of a stretch for a guy to prove his testosterone with facial hair (my H is bearded!) than it is for him to prove it with a pedicure after all those strenuous protests. smile


Pedicure shemedicure.


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I had to go back home after work last night as we had to take S14 to the hospital to see the surgeon. I got back to the train station quite late and my wife picked me up. We actually had quite a nice chat on the journey home and we laughed together when she recounted something that S14 had said to her earlier. There were no elephants in the car. Which is good because it's only a small car and it would have ruined the suspension.

Anyway, we went to the hospital, saw the surgeon and I remembered a nice place nearby where we had lunch before I had to get the train back to work. So a pretty positive 18 hours in all.

And ... get this you pedicure fiends. I have in my possession the phone number of someone who does them, and by all accounts is rather good. I'll be giving them a call tomorrow.


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I'll believe it when it has happened. wink


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It's happening next Thursday.


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Don't expect me to join you! Lol

I draw the line at hair make up and shoes! That girlie enough combined with regular shaving of legs and under arms.


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Back at home again for the weekend. WAW suggested we all go to have pizza when they pick me up from the station; so we did, and we had a nice time.

My super PMA seems to be working, in as far as its making it easier to get along. The elephant in the room is sulking now as his influence is waning.

I got to the restaurant first and gave the boys a hug WAW a peck on the cheek when they arrived.

I was reading about His Needs, Her Needs on the train on the way up and just came across a section where he says that when couples stop talking intimately to each other, then the W may replace the H with someone who does.

It happens often enough and we're guilty. I find it difficult to think of topics to kick off an ordinary conversation, let alone an intimate one.

But I'm happy she suggested we go out and I'm happy we all had a good time with nice food.

Keep on keeping on everyone. xx


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It really sounds like your doing well. Its good

And if there is sulking to be done its best its done by the elephants - eventually they might leave after all they are always ready to travel.


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You'll feel even better this time next week, when you're sporting the fresh new pedicure!


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Cheers Jim & that's right raliced :-)

I'm staying in London next weekend with a friend so I can go on a two day tech course.

Tomorrow, the wife's footie team is playing a big rival. I'm going to see if I can offer support and maybe go to the pub to watch it.


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You want to watch the England v New Zealand rugby instead. Its the wiser choice.

I appreciate that has nothing to do with your situation - its just an observation in general

Last edited by jim0987; 11/07/14 10:35 PM.

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Elephants explode if they sulk long enough.
well done.


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Maybe Wales v Australia.

I better get the mop and bucket ready.


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Loving the light-hearted vibe.

So, Old Dog, did you choose a color? Maybe you're going to go trendy with a sparkly midnight blue? Or old school with a candy-apple red? The cool thing with pedicures is that you're not restricted to the professional neutrals of a manicure.

More importantly, bubbly, red wine, a pint, or something in a flask? Or are you doing this dry??

Thanks for being willing to play. I have a second interview for the job I want on the same day, so we'll both have something to report. smile

So wish I had a weekend in London planned. That's one of my bucket list destinations.


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Old skull candy-apple red I think. I used to paint my toe nails red when I was young and stupid.

I was thinking I may get a Prosecco and be like all the other the girls.

A second interview sounds good. I Hope you get it.

I learnt I didn't get one of the jobs I went for. I'd have been a good fit apparently but they went for someone who had more experience in the tech they currently use. They said they'd keep my CV on file and encouraged to apply again if they had any more in future.

Time for bed now. Good night all.


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OD, I just got mani/pedi. Just thought you'd want to know.



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I hope it was a Champagne mani/pedi rppfl or it doesn't count :-)


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Oh well the best laid schemes o' mice an' men ...

I had thought I'd go along to the pub with Mrs Dog and show support for her football (soccer) team in their battle with one of their major rivals. But she didn't want to go as she was afraid they would lose. They did. My team also lost :-(

Then, I thought we would go to a nearby firework display but she decided that S12 doesn't like crowds and loud noises, so we didn't go.

So I made dinner and then we all watched Dr Who together. They then all disappeared off to their own rooms to play with computers, phones and whatever leaving me on my own in the living room again.

Last week I was a bit put out, but this week I am taking MrBond's advice and shrugging my shoulders.


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Good, I've gad an awesome weekend so far. It will need to be longer to fit all me stuff in.
Nice to see you shrugging with the rest of us. grin

Last edited by Ggrass; 11/08/14 11:28 PM.

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Whatever :-)


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I hope you at least enjoyed the episode. I'm two behind. smile

Sorry about all the losses.


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So today was the day, right? How are the toes?


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Today was the day and I've just got back. My toes, and feet, thoroughly enjoyed it.

It was a bit of a climb up to the house on my bike. There's a strong wind blowing this week as well so it was tough going.

I took along a bottle of Prosecco, sat on the couch and had my feet sandpapered. Then they were dunked into a foot bath, left to soak for a few minutes before the lovely foot lady (LFL) massaged them with some exfoliation gloves.

Once dried and back on the couch, my toe nails were given a tidy up, snipped and buffed. Then came a foot massage, followed by them being coated with some stuff, put in plastic bags and stuffed into heated booties.

While they were being toasted LFL gave my hands a massage as well. And finally it was clean up time. The whole thing lasted an hour and a half and was certainly an experience I had never thought about having but am glad I did.


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Old Dog- Seriously - this made my day :-)


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Ah well. I do my best :-)

Oh, and my new iPhone arrived as well. A thing of wonder and great beauty ... At least for someone whose previous model is a 3G.


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Proud of you, OD!



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Aw shucks.

Did anyone ever say that, or was it just in cartoons?


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I'm jealous, I want a 6! Stomps foot.

I got a huge weekend planed. wink grin


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Old Dog you are AWESOME! Yay for you!

You are definitely becoming a new and improved Dog. With fancy feet.

Hugs, Lisa

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Smiling over here as I catch up on your posts. Been a good few days for you!

(How good is the finger print login?!)


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I'm glad you did it! And now you can take on the world.

Weren't the heated booties a treat?

To get a pedicure AND go straight from iPhone 3 to 6 in one day? That's like nirvana. wink


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Oh the finger print login is so cool. I've got a belly login as well now :-)


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Have been keeping up with your thread.

The easy going tactics seem to be working for you. I think you are eating the elephant, starting with the toe nails.

Lovely to read

Laughter cool

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/15/14 01:52 PM.

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Runs into thread saying omg, I can get a 6 but I need to sign up before Christmas.

I can get a huge ar$$e plan for no more $. Like $ 1,000 call credits at 3gig of data. Massive.

But I need to relinquish the old phone and that means I think I lose all those text messages from h which I might need.


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Hi Vanilla, thanks for looking in.

Just got back to the flat. I didn't go back home this weekend. Instead, I went up to London and had a splendid time.

I met up with a couple of friends for a curry and a couple of pints on Friday evening.

On Saturday I went to part one of a JavaScript course. After that, I went up with another friend and her toddler for dinner and finished up with watching Interstellar at one of the big cinemas in Leicester Square.

Today, I went to part two of the course then went to see the switching on of the Xmas lights on Regent Street. And now it's just chill, have some pizza and a beer and maybe watch some TV.

Is that enough GAL for everyone?

Next weekend it'll Mrs Dog's turn. She says a friend has a spare ticket for a gig and wants to stay overnight.


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Sounds like you have a good "away-normal" GAL going on - keep it up. I hope the PMA keeps up through next weekend with your kids.

cheers!


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Sounds like you had a great weekend and lots of GAL, GAL, GAL.

I am meeting my beautiful, gorgeous, sassy, sis in London as she is on a course there. Boring investment stuff, but taking the opportunity to grab a supper and some hugs.

She is my younger glam sis, and I have told her that she can be my sis next lifetime too, if I get a choice! But next time I want the glam.

Keep on truckin'

Vanilla


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I can't believe I haven't posted anything in almost two weeks. Sorry for not checking in with you. I've been trying to keep busy and GAL, largely successfully I'm glad to say, I'm but I'm back here to ask for help in shrugging my shoulders.

Today, I went to a 'feel the fear and do it anyway' workshop. I'd read the book and when I found out about the workshop, I thought it would be good to go along. And it was good.

The shoulder shrugging plea comes about because, I got home to discover my wife had rented the 12 Years A Slave DVD and watched it this afternoon while I was out.

I am exasperated. I would really have liked to watch that. Sometimes it seems she tries to make a point of 'doing things separately'. But for crying out loud, why couldn't she have waited until this evening. I know I should just shrug my shoulders and say whatever, it's a long haul etc but ... well, you all know.

On the plus side we are suppoded to be playing a game this evening. And it's been held over from last weekend when we ran out of time before I had to head off to my work flat. So that's a positive. They didn't play it without me afetr I'd gone, nor during the week.

How are the rest of you all doing anyway?


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We had an enjoyable couple of board games this evening after which the kids disappeared off to their rooms to play computer games.

I felt some fear but broached the subject of christmas. I asked what are we doing? I asked if she wanted me to go her parents to which she replied she didn't know. She doesn't want to make it awkward for anyone. I said I won't make it awkward and se said she doesn't want her parents to feel awkward it's not just her.

Later on, after a bit of silence, I asked if she would like to go to the cinema next weekend to see Turner, the new film about the celebrated artist. I know she wants to see it but she felt the kids wouldn't enjoy it, to which I said they don't need to come, we could go together. She wasn't keen on this: she said it felt 'innappropriate'.

Holding me at arms length then. As as mentioned earlier, she seems to be making a point of doing this separately.

I made a cup of tea for us and tried to engage in some conversation. I told her I'm doing yoga and going to a mindfulness meeting. I think that tipped her over the edge as she sloped off to bed soon after. Maybe that was too much in one go. :-)

Sure, I feel our problems are so solvable compared to many on here. It is so frustrating she won't consider working on our relationship but my ability to detachment and let go is coming on. My PMA is shining through. I can handle it (feel the fear that is).

I do miss her so much though.


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WAW has got up early and gone for a walk, I presume. Maybe to try and think clearly.

Gotta stop my own mind reading tricks, so time to go and rake some leaves.


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Hmmm…feel the fear. Just read the book description. Sounds interesting.

I don't think your challenges are any more or less "solvable" than anyone else here. Like most folks, you are dealing with a W who isn't willing to give things another chance right now. It's hard being kept at arms length from people we love so dearly. Really hard.

Give the white shirt and trousers a go (not while you're raking the leaves). If that doesn't work, then give the white pants a go ;-)


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Old Dog

You are near a city which is wonderous especially at Xmas time.

I would love to see you GAL there with your teenagers, winter wonderland, regent street, Harrods food hall, a trip up the eye to see Xmas London in all its glory. The moving statues, the iMax, fluffy Xmas films etc etc etc.......

A golden opportunity/excuse for the evenings which each is isolated in their rooms to connect. Each child needs alone time with each parent. No loose ends needed, no need to shrug, you have ready made in house GAL, you have a work flat to share.

Mix the raw ingredients with water, shake the cobwebs and go do it. Life outside the bubble awaits. Mix and match with your kids, enjoy, enrich and go laugh out loud. No wait time. You don't need W for that, stop asking permission, you don't need it.
A plan for the next time

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 11/30/14 08:34 PM.

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Last weekend I brought up the Xmas holiday thing.

This weekend WAW has decided we should spend the time separately with our respective families. It would send a message to the kids consistent with what we told them a couple of months ago about doing things together and separately. So she wants go to her folks on Boxing Day for a couple of days and I take the kids to my family over the New Year.

I said that it was crap (oops) and also said I was disappointed to which she said that was proof that I’m still holding out hope. Then she went on about how I’m still sticking my head in the sand and how she’s frustrated with me still having hope and it feels like June 1st (bomb day) again. She reiterated that our relationship is over, it has run its course.

I said you know this isn’t what I want, it doesn’t have to be that way. She said that as long as she doesn’t mention our relationship, I’m just going along ticking the boxes and hoping that one day everything will be all right and it will go back to how it was before. I said I didn’t want it to be like before.

I didn’t really get a chance at validating as we didn’t really discuss what went wrong, we’ve done that. She just doesn’t want this relationship any longer.

I feel so sad that all my work in trying to improve myself, get back on an even keel and get a life is just rebuffed as though I’m only doing it to win her back.

One thing I learnt from the recent ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’ workshop I went on is: I can handle it.

I won’t let this setback put me off. I am getting back to my normal happy self (well actually fighting back a tear at the moment). I am trying to look at everything with a more positive frame of mind. Reevaluating everything. My beliefs, my attitude, my disposition, my behaviour, my outlook on life.

At the end of the day, I understand I can’t make her change my mind, all I can do is be the best I can. I’ve still got a long way to go with that. Feeling the fear but doing it anyway.


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Rats, it has affected me more than just feeling sad. I had to go and sit in the car and cry for a bit and now I feel angry although I'm trying not to show it. I can handle it. I will handle it.

Just decorated the Xmas tree, at my suggestion, and before that practised guitar with S12. Gotta go back down to my work flat in about half an hour and leave them all behind again to carry on our separate lives.

Somebody tell me this is a great opportunity to learn and discover myself, be the man I want to be etc.

Please.

Last edited by Old Dog; 12/07/14 03:15 PM.

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Ok- I'll do it. This is a great opportunity to learn and discover yourself and be the man you want to be.

That being said,Old Dog - the holidays seem to really intensify a lot of challenging emtions for people so I'd give yourself a little bit of a break on this one.

When your wife starts in on the "you're holding out hope" conversation, instead of trying to reason with her, I would just end the conversation as quickly as possible, as it always seems to land you in a bit of a funk.

Do you do egg nog there? If not, I'm sure there is another suitably festive beverage available. Have a glass.

Last edited by raliced; 12/07/14 03:53 PM.

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We are all going to leap in here!

OD you are doing this for you, of course it looks like hope sometimes. Frankly that's irrelevant to you and W opinion is as you say her view. If it's not working for you maybe it needs a review? Too much thinking and too little GAL is my 2c worth.

Evaluation is great, but I am going to keep on saying it. GAL, seriously where is it? You need loads and loads more GAL in your life OD. What is planned for GAL for Xmas?

GAL is your tool for PMA.

The new Hobbit film is out too, maybe time for a trip with one of the kids?

RD is a master at family GAL. Go do it, look at Jims thread and the terrific GAL on there, I do hope he learns to dance. gg and GGG go GAL too. Head up, new boots and go get some fun stuff. There is tons of it, it isn't in limited supply.

Please list your GAL goals, for Xmas and into the New Year.
Dance, sing and be merry
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/07/14 04:40 PM.

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Thanks (non gender specific) guys. It's good to know there are people out there who you can talk to. My flatmates are also brilliant. Unfortunately, they're going to be away this week. Oh well, I'll handle it. That's my new catch phrase, courtesy of Susan Jeffers.

raliced, our conversations don't last long. Once she's dug her heels in again and reiterated her "it's over, it is what it is" point, I don't argue much. I just said it doesn't have to be this way today and got busy doing something else. The trouble is I've been dwelling on it all day now. I watched a couple of programmes on my iPad on the train on the way down which took my mind off it for a bit. We do have egg nog, but I've had one and don't know what it is. Cue for Maybell to jump in with a challenge, or maybe you will raliced.

Vanilla, I've been doing well on the GAL front for the past couple of months and will continue. You're right, it really does help. It's just today's ruling has dInted my PMA somewhat.

This week, I've got yoga on Monday, Skyping a friend on Tuesday, Mindfullness on Wednesday. On Thursday I'm off home after work as WAW has a work function to go to. And So Friday I'm working from home. Luckily my line manager is amenable to this. WAW is also staying over on Friday night as a client is entertaining them. Spot the cake eating.

Maybe I should just have said no, why should I run around enabling your work and social life. If I didn't go back home, she wouldn't be able to go. If you want to do things on your own without me, off you go then sort that one out on your own.

But it's not in my nature and it would probably cause aggravation when I want some cover. Actually, I never need cover as I'm not the main child career during the week.

Xmas GAL. I don't know just yet as I've been awaiting the verdict about whether I'm allowed to go to the in laws.

On thing lined up is a friends birthday party on 29th in London. WAW doesn't want to go as its my friend. Er, not our friend any more then?

Well all go to see the Hobbit though. Well I say that but I wouldn't put it put her to take the kids when I'm not there. I might get cross if that does happen though.


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Old Dog- Egg Nog is a love it or hate it kind of thing. I'm definitely in the "love it" camp. While many spike it with brandy, I personally prefer a nice Kentucky bourbon (and there are some heathen who use Southern Comfort....don't ask). It is also an unbelievable calorie bomb - and for once I don't have to worry, given the amount of weight I've lost since BD, so I've been enjoying a small glass on the weekends as a treat. Ok...that's a lie, I'm enjoying a fairly large glass right now. Oh- its also good spiked with espresso.

Anyway- I'd have to go back and read all your threads to be sure, but it seems to me on at least three occasions you've ended up crying in your car, and that hurts to read.

I know you say the conversations are brief, but next time she starts in with the business about you sticking your head in the sand, shake it up a little bit, put your palm up and tell her to talk to the hand or something that lets you hold your head up high. Because that's where it belongs!

Be the alpha, Old Dog. Woof!


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I'll have to try this egg nog then I think. Definately not with Southern Comfort though: urgh too flowery.

The car retreat thing though. It's the only place I can go that's private. At least it's getting shorter each time, but even blokes just have to let go sometimes.

Not sure about holding up the hand though, much as I'd like to. She has done that to me, but I suspect it would most likely be taken as evidence of more ostrich like behaviour.

Trying to hold my head high. When I went on the 'feel the fear' workshop last weekend, I was told I'm 'a brave man: not many dig dep into their lives to examine what's gone wrong and how to fix it'. Something like that, I wish I could remember things like that.

Thanks for replying raliced. How are things wth you? I haven't checked your thread yet since I've been back on the forum: I'll np over this evening.


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Old Dog-Just to make sure I'm not sounding mean. I don't think there is anything wrong with crying itself. Lots of people on these boards report doing it and then feeling better because it was cathartic. In your case though, much like wrote earlier, it seems to lead to at least a melancholy afternoon and I wish you could find a way to minimize this a bit more. Since it seems to happen after an interaction with your wife, I guess I would look for a way to change those interactions up a bit.

Looking forward to the report on the egg nog!


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Most of time it's fine because we're not talking about the relationship, but when that does come up and she hasn't budged an inch, and in is fact, driving the wedge in further.

I don't know if you saw that I posted her reaction to my sugestion that we go and see a film together without the kids as they wouldn't enjoy it. She said it wouldn't be appropriate. I ask you? What the ****? Hello? I'm your husband. I've been with you for 21 years.

Just thought of something else she said yesterday when she was complaining about me still hoping. Says I'm just ticking the boxes and hoping it'll get back to normal.

Feeling a bit low today still. PMA has a dent in it. Maybe a spot of yoga will bring a glimmer of peace.


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I did see it, and I'm not surprised. Your wife seems dead set on not doing anything that she perceives might give you "hope". I wouldn't give her the opportunity. It's the whole "act as if" thing. Somehow she's not getting that from you.

Hang in there!


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OD

What I would like you to do is make a tape, playlist or CD of good ole raunchy happy music in a style you love.

No blues, no sloppy love songs, no break up mush, no dirges, some real toe tappin, air guitar stuff. Then when the trigger in the car thing happens you play it, full blast. Then keep some tasty treat in your car plus some lovely after shave.

Go for it, be a boy racer instead of moping. Get a sporty car, have the top down, get a funky hat. Play a cowboy, rock god or super hero. Whatever takes you. Get some underwear like Jims!i

PMA dear one, then arrange some GAL if you think this will happen, something you have to get to by a certain time. Even a dentist will do.

If you want to be really miserable, sit in your car, in a dark corner, play 'your song' with W. Wear your jumper that she once knitted, turn the heater off so it's cold, carry a cut onion to help you along. Don't shave, spend the rest of the day on your own preferably in your pjs with a bag of pickled onion monster munch and broken TV.

Hope I have made my point. I do the first and I have a friend lined up for coffee or a sauna or a drink or an involving film .......

Trust you will have to act as if to start with.
Limit the marshmellow to between 4:30 and 4:45 on a Monday or whatever.....

PMA is a choice, mon ami
Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 12/08/14 07:02 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Vanilla


What I would like you to do is make a tape, playlist or CD of good ole raunchy happy music in a style you love.

No blues, no sloppy love songs, no break up mush, no dirges, some real toe tappin, air guitar stuff. Then when the trigger in the car thing happens you play it, full blast.



For what it's worth, I have a "good riddance" playlist on my iPhone. It really helped me get through some moments. Now I can go for a couple of weeks without listening to it, but gave it some play time this weekend. I like to sing along really loudly in my car......



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But pickled onion monster munch is delicious.

For what its worth I don't think the not going to the cinema is about not giving you hope its more likely to be a defence - I could speculate but it would be mind reading. What I will say is that its pursuing and so unless I've misunderstood your situation its not really DB

Vanilla will really ride you on your GAL activities to get you positive so I'd get on to that mix tape.


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Thanks for all your support. I'll bounce back. Just off to yoga now, so will post again once I return.


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Watch out, it'll be the pedicure all over again. wink

Ommmm...


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog
I don't know if you saw that I posted her reaction to my sugestion that we go and see a film together without the kids as they wouldn't enjoy it. She said it wouldn't be appropriate. I ask you? What the ****? Hello? I'm your husband. I've been with you for 21 years.
I'm afraid you really don't get it. No, you're not her husband, ie someone she loves and to whom she's committed. You're the needy guy she's trying to get away from. Of course she doesn't want to go to a movie alone with you, no more than she would with a creepy colleague. You need to develop the empathy for your W's perspective or you'll keep making the same mistakes. She doesn't like you. Think of someone you don't like. Now. Ok, how do you feel about going to a movie with her/him?

Also, you've lost all power over her. There's no point in feeling that she owes you anything because she doesn't. She broke the bond, shredded the contract. She's getting away and freeing you at the same time. She sacrifices her rights over you in exchange for dropping all responsibilities towards you.

You need a completely different mindset. You still think in terms of husband and wife and she doesn't. And she's in the driver's seat.


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Back from yoga all peaceful like :-)

Originally Posted By: raliced
I did see it, and I'm not surprised. Your wife seems dead set on not doing anything that she perceives might give you "hope".


No, that's right. And she's miffed that I still have hope. She's tring to keep me at arms length. Staying out of reach. Not responding to my PMA at all.

Originally Posted By: raliced
I wouldn't give her the opportunity. It's the whole "act as if" thing. Somehow she's not getting that from you.


I don't understand this bit.


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Vanilla. I just wanted to say I have heaps of PMA. I am getting a life. This is just a blip. I am really proud of myself for what I have been able to acheive in the last couple of months and for keeping a PMA in the face of enemy action. I don't have to act 'as if', I am doing it.

We went xmas shopping on Saturday with whole family and S14 was so against it. I spoke to him about having a PMA and the choices he had. Be dragged around making everyone's life a misery including his own or keep a PMA, make the best of it, put a litle effort in. I'm glad to say, for the most part it was plan B. I thanked him for it and said I really appreciate it before I left for my week away at work.

Music has always been a huge part of my life. I love listening to it and really need to get back to playing it. That's on my GAL list. I'm teaching the kids too. I can even listen to sad old country music (though I choose not too ;-) or Carole King. It will not dent my PMA any more. Only WAW can do that, but I try not to let her know it, and ... I am geting better at that too.

I can handle it.


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OD try to focus on you. Not to get her back but instead....to get you back. If W magically disappeared (nothing bad)...just was not there anymore as a temptation what would you do? Who would you be? Go be that person. If youre not sure what that looks like yet that's ok too. Take this time to find out. Act as if she's never coming home. What would you do?


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Originally Posted By: jim0987
For what its worth I don't think the not going to the cinema is about not giving you hope its more likely to be a defence - I could speculate but it would be mind reading. What I will say is that its pursuing and so unless I've misunderstood your situation its not really DB.


Could be defence. Who knows. But I didn't consider it to be pursuing just doing something fun. She said she wants to renain friends and have an 'unconventional relationship' where we still live together but apart. She really isn't treating me like a friend though. I'm not letting that get to me, I'm sticking with the program.


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Originally Posted By: Mozza
I'm afraid you really don't get it. No, you're not her husband, ie someone she loves and to whom she's committed. You're the needy guy she's trying to get away from. Of course she doesn't want to go to a movie alone with you, no more than she would with a creepy colleague. You need to develop the empathy for your W's perspective or you'll keep making the same mistakes. She doesn't like you. Think of someone you don't like. Now. Ok, how do you feel about going to a movie with her/him?


Hey Mozza, thanks for chipping in. I do get it but I'm not a needy guy. Point taken with the perspective bit but that can also lad to mind reading and it's not that she doesnt like me, or I don't think so.

Originally Posted By: Mozza
Also, you've lost all power over her. There's no point in feeling that she owes you anything because she doesn't. She broke the bond, shredded the contract. She's getting away and freeing you at the same time. She sacrifices her rights over you in exchange for dropping all responsibilities towards you.

You need a completely different mindset. You still think in terms of husband and wife and she doesn't. And she's in the driver's seat.


That's tough to read. And how does that square with our unconventional relationship I wonder?


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog


Originally Posted By: raliced
I wouldn't give her the opportunity. It's the whole "act as if" thing. Somehow she's not getting that from you.


I don't understand this bit.


Old Dog - I will preface this by saying that in everyone's situation there is a lot of nuance and I can't pretend to know what is going on in your home. But from the snippets you post here, it certainly seems like you might be behaving in a way that conveys to your wife you still have hopes and expectations that she has no interest in right now. Earlier in your thread you posted you were disappointed that she didn't wait to watch the "12 Years a Slave" DVD with you and I remember being surprised that you thought she might want to do that. With everything that she has said and the direction she wants her life to go in, that just did not seem like a realistic expectation to have had. I think your situation is a little more difficult because the two of you are so civil and polite with each other, which makes the dissonance between what she wants and expects and what you want and expect a little harder to see.

You need to show her that you will not only survive but thrive though this situation! I know you don't feel that way, so that's why I say "act as if" (from DR). Act as if you are positive and confident in your ability to move on and be happy if necessary. That doesn't mean you have to agree with her decisions or what she's doing, just show her you are not expecting her to be with you and that you are ok with that. Instead of asking her to go to a movie, just tell her you are going.

I hope some of that makes sense - not feeling very fluent this afternoon. By the way, I can't believe your thread hasn't locked yet!


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Originally Posted By: paul19510
OD try to focus on you. Not to get her back but instead....to get you back. If W magically disappeared (nothing bad)...just was not there anymore as a temptation what would you do? Who would you be? Go be that person. If youre not sure what that looks like yet that's ok too. Take this time to find out. Act as if she's never coming home. What would you do?


Hi Paul, thanks to you as well for chipping.

I mentioned above, I am getting back on track. My life was awful earlier this year and had been getting worse for a while. Much of it was due to working away from home 5 days a week. I can't blame her for not liking that person: I didn't like me. I used to think is this it? But felt powerless to change.

I'm not him any more, I am changing. I have a PMA almost all the time, I am getting in touch with friends, going out, trying new things, yoga, mindfullness, champagne pedicures. I have been to a "feel the fear and do it anyway" workshop which was really cool.

I am trying to have no expectation, but there is still hope. Without hope, you may as well give in.


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raliced. Thanks for the explanation.

Yes, I understand. I guess maybe I am a times, especially if I then come out and say it.

But it is disappointing that she is being so selfish. Most of the time I can roll with it. To paraphrase MrBond's words earier in my thread. I need to just shrug my shoulders and get over it.

I was going to catch up on a cople of other threads and start watching the last series of Breaking Bad this evening but I seem to have run out of time.

Last edited by Old Dog; 12/08/14 10:25 PM.

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I'm goin for the most posts in a thread record now.

Come on Old Dog, fetch the stick.


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Originally Posted By: Old Dog


But it is disappointing that she is being so selfish. Most of the time I can roll with it. To paraphrase MrBond's words earier in my thread. I need to just shrug my shoulders and get over it.



Helping you with the record...You're disappointed because on some level you are still expecting her to behave like your wife of 25 years. That will just bring you pain. You have to let go of those expectations.

Mr. Bond gave you good advice there.

This is something I am really struggling with too, although in my case its expectations I have of STBX as a father.

Last edited by raliced; 12/08/14 10:38 PM.

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OK, yes. I think I took my foot off the pedal a little.

And the convo we had really didn't help. She's going to be wondering if our unconventional relationship will work at all now.

I'm going to set up another DB coaching call I think.


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Hey Old Dog,
You seem to do so well when you are away. Keep that same attitude when you go back. Have no expectations that things are going to be different. Asking to go to the movies seems like such an easy thing - right? But it was only setting yourself up for another punch.

Hang in there.


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My DB coach advised treating her like a sister which I have been trying to do. Be lovingly detached.

I would invite my sister to see a movie any day of the week. I guess that's OK, but I just need to be OK with a no.

Back to the marathon then.


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Well- I would argue that your wife isn't seeing these invitations as "sisterly" right now. Even if you are asking out of a place of brotherly affection, that isn't what she wants to see. Just my opinion, but I'd quash those.


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