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#2499193 10/21/14 06:53 PM
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So here we are at thread 5.

I'm feeling a little peeved that this weekend WAW is off on a jolly again. This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids.

I just got off the phone with her in which we discussed this weekend. S12 has a sleepover on Friday evening and she wanted to check that was OK with me: I suppose that's something, that she checked first.

I rocked a solid PMA and talked about the logistocs of her trip: where to leave the car at the train station so I could pick it up on the way home.

And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined. He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc.

I got another couple of books in the post yesterday.
  • 'My wife doesn't love me any more' by Andrew G Marshall. A companion book to his 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' but targeted at men of course (I think there's one for women as well).
  • 'His needs, her needs' by Willard F Harley - which of course you probably all know about.
I also discovered WAW has a couple of new books by her bedside:
  • 'A new earth' by Eckhart Tolle - Tolle is known for his mindfulness books. The one before this one, 'The power of now' is on the bookshelf at my work flat and is my reading list.
  • 'The up side of down' by Megan McArdle - which says 'Why Failing Well Is the Key to Success'
I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago.

I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship. I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said.


Last edited by Old Dog; 10/21/14 06:54 PM.

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Old dog. When you read the books you are you'll see that a lot of it is always about improving yourself just from a different slant. After all the only thing we can truly control is ourselves.

Adapt by Tim Harford is another book that says the sane thing from an economics perspective


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"This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids."

So your kids aren't worth your "valuable" days off. Nice to see you value your kids so much. How about creating an adventure with them that will be fun for you too. If you thought your children were going to be such a burden, you shouldn't have had them in the first place. You do understand that they are trying to process everything too right? How about a little compassion.

"And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined."

Wow nice way to talk about your own child. You do understand that your children are the product of the parents. That's your doing how he turned out. At your age, there's bound to be a disconnect between you two. How about strengthening the bond with him rather than dismissing him as a lost cause.

"He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc."

Have you learned nothing from DB? Do something different if what was tried before didn't work.

"I got another couple of books in the post yesterday."

How about a parenting book while you're at it. There is a 5LL book for children that can help you alot with your son.

'I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship."

Your M/R is based off her personal life. If she doesn't love herself or can't find fulfillment in herself, your M will not work. That's what you don't seem to understand. That's why we say that it's HER journey and not yours.

"I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said."

If you feel annoyed, angry, resentful, etc., what you're doing isn't detaching.


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Originally Posted By: jim0987
Old dog. When you read the books you are you'll see that a lot of it is always about improving yourself just from a different slant. After all the only thing we can truly control is ourselves.


Yes, I can see from what I've already read that there is a theme that runs through them all. In the end, it proably doesn't matter which one you choose if you just apply it.


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Aha! Another challenging post from MrBond ;-)

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"This time going for a long weekend to a party in Spain while I take one of my valuable days off to look after the kids."

So your kids aren't worth your "valuable" days off. Nice to see you value your kids so much. How about creating an adventure with them that will be fun for you too. If you thought your children were going to be such a burden, you shouldn't have had them in the first place. You do understand that they are trying to process everything too right? How about a little compassion.


Er that's not what I meant. The day off is valuable because I don't have too many of them and I'm running out. I do value and love my kids, they are beautiful and wonderful. And I have been thinking of something fun to do with them this weekend. I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"And also about S14 who has another detention from school. He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined."

Wow nice way to talk about your own child. You do understand that your children are the product of the parents. That's your doing how he turned out. At your age, there's bound to be a disconnect between you two. How about strengthening the bond with him rather than dismissing him as a lost cause.

"He professes he doesn't even know what it's for. I'm worried about him as he is displaying all the crap attributes that I did at my last school which I hated. He says he does hate it but he just won't do any work with being pushed, cajoled, hectored etc."


Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it. Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed. He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more socialable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause. I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
Have you learned nothing from DB? Do something different if what was tried before didn't work.

"I got another couple of books in the post yesterday."

How about a parenting book while you're at it. There is a 5LL book for children that can help you alot with your son.


You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different. But yes, what we're doing isn't working too well, it's time to try a new approach. And so ...

I did notice there was a 5LL book for children. That is a good idea. I will get it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
'I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship."

Your M/R is based off her personal life. If she doesn't love herself or can't find fulfillment in herself, your M will not work. That's what you don't seem to understand. That's why we say that it's HER journey and not yours.

"I'm trying not to let it affect me too much though. Detaching and all that. I think I am, at last, doing a bit better at it now. It's still a lttle annoying though as I said."

If you feel annoyed, angry, resentful, etc., what you're doing isn't detaching.


I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her.

And I know it's not true detachment, but I sense there is an improvement. In fact it's quite a big improvement, I'm not so cuaght up with my own ego as before.

Thanks for coming by MrBond. You help me see things a little more clearly. I've still got a long way to go, but at least I have the gift of time.


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Hmmm a very quick turnaround once you are called out. The thing is to stop the "stinking thinking" BEFORE it comes out.

"Er that's not what I meant. The day off is valuable because I don't have too many of them and I'm running out. I do value and love my kids, they are beautiful and wonderful. And I have been thinking of something fun to do with them this weekend."

Good.

"I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example."

They don't have to be showing outward signs of being "anxious". I can guarantee you that they are. They're scared but won't show it.

"Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it."

You just did... (He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined.) Would you let a stranger call him those things? If you heard a stranger talk call their child that in public, what would you think of that father?

"Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed."

This is because of your situation. He feels like he is going to lose the two of you. This is a good thing for the WRONG reasons.

"He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more socialable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause."

Then stop calling him names. There's a name for people who name call others - a bully. And when it comes from a parent to their child, it's called ABUSE.

"I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it."

He's doing it to spend time with you because of your situation.

"You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different."

That's not what doing something means. It doesn't mean to do something different than what YOUR parents did, but to do something different from what you were doing with him.

"I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her."

Doesn't seem like it. After all, you said... (I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago. I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship.)

Stop the negative thinking BEFORE it starts. Treat others as you would want them to treat you.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Hmmm a very quick turnaround once you are called out. The thing is to stop the "stinking thinking" BEFORE it comes out.


Yes, that would be good.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I'm not sure they are processing anything at the moment as nothing much has changed for them. They haven't mentioned the situation at all. Of course it doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and maybe they will, but in the meantime I can't detect any worry or anxiousness for example.”

They don't have to be showing outward signs of being "anxious". I can guarantee you that they are. They're scared but won't show it.


So do you think I should ask them what they feel about it or wait until they want to say something? I was thinking, if I wait, they may never say anything and let it fester which wouldn’t be good.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Well I don't call him that to his face, or even imply it.”

You just did... (He's such an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined.) Would you let a stranger call him those things? If you heard a stranger talk call their child that in public, what would you think of that father?


He doesn’t read this forum so it’s safe to say that in private. As I said we don’t put him down at all.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"Yes, I do understand he is a product of his parents. That's why I'm worried: I can see him making some of the mistakes I made. The bond between us (and with his mother) has been improving lately we've noticed."

This is because of your situation. He feels like he is going to lose the two of you. This is a good thing for the WRONG reasons.


I’m not sure about that as he started being more sociable quite a long time before we told them about us. I hope he doesn’t feel like he’s going to lose us. We tried to reassure them they wouldn’t.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"He spent a couple of years being an awkward teenager, but is becoming a lot more sociable now. We do really enjoy his company: he is very sharp and quick witted. I certainly don't see him as a lost cause."

Then stop calling him names. There's a name for people who name call others - a bully. And when it comes from a parent to their child, it's called ABUSE.


As above, we do not call him names. We only ever offer positive reinforcement and encouragement.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I just wish he would apply himself at school. He is certainly capable and we tell him so frequently. He had a school report recently which was average overall. It was quite a bit better than at this stage last year so I told him I was pleased with him. We always use encouraging words rather than negative words, but we do have to make him do his homework and sit with him until he does it."

He's doing it to spend time with you because of your situation.


:-) if only. He’s always done this. It’s nothing new. It's always been a struggle. OK. do something different I hear you say.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"You know when I think back to when I was his age and the relationship I had with my parents and with my school, I am doing something different."

That's not what doing something means. It doesn't mean to do something different than what YOUR parents did, but to do something different from what you were doing with him.


Yes I know. But I was just thinking, what my parents did didn’t work.

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I do understand that. And I'm glad she is having some fun now and looking at ways to improve herself. I believe it will benefit me as well as her."

Doesn't seem like it. After all, you said... (I don't know how she came by these books. I suspect she's been to the life coach she saw previously and who I know she emailed a while ago. I find it annoying that she's prepared to put in work to improve her personal life but not our marriage/relationship.)

Stop the negative thinking BEFORE it starts. Treat others as you would want them to treat you.


Well, at the moment, I am thinking these things. But I can also recognise these thoughts, see them for what they are and choose how to react to them. I do not show any sign of impatience or annoyance, only understanding. I said to her on the phone this evening ‘I hope you have a great time this weekend’. However, I do still feel upset that she won’t consider working going to MC or working on our relationship, I think it’s only natural, but I also know you’re right, she does need to feel good about herself: we both do before anything further can happen.

In writing this suff down, instead of speaking, it can be difficult to convey tone and feeling. I sometimes think I could have explained that better, maybe someone will get the wrong end of the stick, but as I said earlier, it does help clarify things.


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"So do you think I should ask them what they feel about it or wait until they want to say something? I was thinking, if I wait, they may never say anything and let it fester which wouldn’t be good."

Of course you should talk to them and ask them how they feel. They may shrug their shoulders and say 'okay'. But don't believe them. If YOU can't handle it as an adult, try to see it through their eyes. They don't have the life experience to know how to handle this. Talk to them. I can't believe you haven't done so.

"He doesn’t read this forum so it’s safe to say that in private. As I said we don’t put him down at all."

That's not what I meant. you said that you don't "imply" it. I'm saying that you do. You may not say it directly to his face, but you think it which is worse. Like I said, if a stranger come up and start saying that to your child, how would you feel?

"I hope he doesn’t feel like he’s going to lose us. We tried to reassure them they wouldn’t."

Of course he feels like he's going to lose you. YOU need to constantly reassure them. I mean, look at your W and you. Both of you are going off and doing your own thing while leaving them with whoever is home. They are being tossed between you two like a tennis ball and a burden.

"As above, we do not call him names. We only ever offer positive reinforcement and encouragement."

And as above, it doens't matter that you don't call him that to his face. You think that which makes you a lousy parent. If you think your child is a loser it will come out in your actions. The fact that you don't see anything wrong about thinking that your son is a "an airhead/rebel/idiot/lazy sod or all these combined" is troubling. All of the thoughts of an abusive parent.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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OK, I take all your points above and I will talk to them and see if they're willing to discuss it.

However, when I read what you've said, especially the 'abusive parent' bit it sounds terrible. It really isn't like that, so please don't think they are living in misery, they aren't.

They are happy, they do laugh and joke, they rarely fight with each other and if they have disagreements, it doesn't turn nasty. We do try our very best, despite our own problems, to teach them love, understanding, compassion, everything you would expect from good parents.


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Zeus - a lot of how you describe your son describes me as a kid and its only now am I realising the impact all that had on me.

He needs to know that whatever happens you love him and are proud of him


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