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Mozza Offline OP
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Thanks jim0987. I had a good morning, but my lunch time wasn't so good. With the smallest trigger, I have random memories of our relationship, often small things, and then I break down. I can't believe we won't be sharing these anymore. We had developed our sense of humor for instance and I just don't know where that's gone. We can walk for miles and miles, like few people do, and now that's over. It was a bond between us. Gone.

Also I realize that the reason the Facebook post didn't bother me emotionally is that it was a positive after all. I'm mostly indifferent to what's positive, reasoning that she's not coming back any time soon so I shouldn't get carried away. But the negatives bring me down. Just seeing in Gmail that she had logged out to go to lunch brought me down because I imagined her having fun, vindicated in her decision to leave me and for embracing her new life. I feel like every bit of fun she's having is against me, that she thinks this fun was not possible with me.

Hello time, my old friend
A friend told me last night that time is on my side. Life will become increasingly "normal" for her after the high of the new job and friends. In the long run (sigh), these new friends (5-6 years younger than her) will age and settle, move on, catch up with her stage of life (married, young kids). Also, she'll see less of what was bothering her in the R when she left -- we had had several fights in a few weeks -- and more of the whole relationship. I want to believe, I so want to believe. But if this was the case, wouldn't it apply to every separation? A majority of people would come back together then. Time can't do the whole job on its own.

Comforting story?
I like to hear reconciliation stories because they give me hope, but here's a different kind the same friend told me last night. A colleague of his divorced her husband because she had married too young, had her kids too young and just wanted to live a little (including dating many men, apparently). Years later, she got her wish but she hasn't found Mr. Right again. On the other hand, he has remarried and is perfectly content. She went back to him, but it was too late. A better ending from our perspective would be a reconciliation, but knowing that the WAW/MLC can have regrets is comforting just a little at least.

Joining the right team
In thinking of separations and reconciliations, I realized that there are several scenarios.

1. Joint decision, both spouses agree that the relationship has run its course.
2. Unilateral decision, but the other spouses accepts it. (I've seen this)
3. Unilateral decision and the other spouse fights it, badly.
4. Unilateral decision and the other spouse fights it well.

People on these forums are in the 4th category, or at least we're trying to move from 3 to 4. I don't know the stats for these situations, but we have to be in the group with the highest chance of a reconciliation.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Most couples don't reunite because LBS:

-react poorly, start doing things they shouldn't like dating, going to bars, etc. retaliate to get back. Or try to control.
-cant stand limbo, so they burn bridges to get it over with. Feels better to be in control even if the outcome is negative.
-don't take ownership and blame the WAS. Easy to call them crazy with how they act when they walk away. Easy to focus on them, very hard to grow.

If a LBS avoids those things and instead takes accountability, grows, behaves in enlightened ways consistent with their values thereby demonstrating their changes, and accepts the timelines involved because they are comfortable with their life...they have done their part.

As always, it takes two. WAS has to do the same things, usually later and oy if they do come out of the fog. When you think about how hard this road is its no wonder both partners are rarely able to do this. I, however, can live with doing my part and will accept what comes.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
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Can I suggest a couple of alterations to your groups

1. Agree
2. Unilateral but other spouse is resigned to it and does nothing.
3. Unilateral but other spouse fights it
4. Unilateral but other spouse realises that marriages and happiness takes work and must come from within - so they improve themselves so they can have the marriage they want and deserve (maybe to former partner, maybe not)
5. Both sides just want to hurt each other

Yours were definitely punchier.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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I have to agree with Zeus on a lot of what he said. A couple of times already I've considered dating someone else but then I realise that's only because it distracts from the changes I need to make, offers short term comfort and a little bit to get back at my W

BUT...

I realise that means, I'd burn bridges, I wouldn't be fair to whoever I dated, I would be running away from my issues, I'd be endorsing the break up of my family and a load of other stuff which is just repeating my cycle that led me here. Basically if I dated right now I'd just be that same guy who contributed to my current situation and I don't like him.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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Mozza Offline OP
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The topic of dating seems to be controversial around here. It's still something I'm thinking about. Certain get-back-together methods will encourage dating as a way to make the WAS realize your worth and that you might not be waiting forever. I know the fact that my W is getting all this male attention makes me see her through the eyes of new men seeing her for the first time (they're right: she's great!). Also, there's dating (going out) and dating (sex) and I'm never sure how it's understood around here. Some say it's enough to be seen in town with another woman. As my W left me saying we might get back together but shouldn't base our lives on this, I wonder why I should refrain from dating. It looks like a strong GAL statement, no? I'm not one to have an affair and I prefer my W over anything, but as with everybody, it did cross my mind that it would be nice to date (ahem) someone else before I die. This separation seems like a legitimate moment to do just that, especially as our spouses appear to be doing the same, and get it out of my system before a MLC hits me. If it's disappointing, even better! Oh and another argument: it's a human need, not just a fun nice-to-have. I've had long dry spells when I was single and I was surprised that it physically hurts, almost like hunger. I'm not sex-crazed by any mean, but we're not made of stone either.

I'm not hell bent on dating, but it does seem like an option with several upsides. Is it common that the WAS will rescind their green light to date and consider it a major impediment to a reconciliation?

By the way, my fidelity has never been an issue in my couple. My wife knows I'm rock solid on this and not even tempted (my friends make fun of me because I don't notice girls). So it wouldn't be a pattern for us, it would rather be a surprise.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,720
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I'm not going to say whether you should date or not. That's personal choice.

What I will say is you have question why you would be dating. Is it because you are truly moving on or is it a temporary relief. If its to prove something to your W then do you really feel that using someone (whoever you date) like that fits with any changes your trying to make in yourself?


Don't get me wrong, when I found out about the other man and the way my W is throwing herself at him (she still says he has nothing to do with this) and her desire for 'any man, a REAL man' it made me want to go and sleep with anyone who'd have me. But then I realised that's just my hurt self esteem and that revenge sex probably isn't in anyone's interest


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,720
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Oh yes and under UK law if it happens within 6 months of seperation then legally its adultery.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 266
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I will say that during my last S, (like this one not official, W in A while still at home) I did eventually see someone else. I don't know if it was effective per se but it did seem to bother her. And the person I was with knew my sitch and was very cool with it short term. I broke it off after a month tho, it just didn't feel right though it did satisfy some temporary needs! I don't think I'll be doing that this time.


M: 33
W: 33
M: 9 T: 10
3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5
BD: 8/3/14
Living together
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Mozza: your feelings are perfectly normal. I feel the exact same way. I keep hoping that when reality sets in and he starts to see beyond the fantasy of his affair partner and all he gave up to have her, that he will suddenly think, OMG - what did I do? I miss Zimmy and our life together. But he is so determined to pursue this path right now, that it seems like he will never get there and have any regrets. I too cry about how he could just detach from me and what I thought was our deep bond - we used to share everything, we worked together, rode horses together, bought a beautiful home together, shared the most amazing vacations and holidays. I miss him every moment. I just can't fathom how he can't miss all that.

I think that part of the reason that he is so dead set to pursue this other life is that he feels like he has done so much damage and broken so much glass that he can't turn back now. I mean, I think in his perfect world, he would have left me first (hoping that I had never found out about the affair) and then introduced his HausFrau as his new and improved girlfriend and all would be well with limited drama. Unfortunatetly, it threw a wrench in his plans when I found the evidence of his affair. Then, under guidance from my therapist and other books, I outed the affair to his parents, his sister and to my boss at work and our friends. The idea there being that it exposed his behavior and would help to crash the fantasy. This did not work - instead it just made it harder for him to turn back on his decision, because if he did that, he would have to admit that he did something really dumb and he was wrong.

Having said all that, I don't think he would have come home one way or the other, regardless of the truth coming out. He doesn't seem to have much shame about the affair in any case, and assures me that all the people he's spoken to about this assure him that he is making the right choice.

Oh Mozza, I am so broken. I tried everything I could to fix us and nothing was right / good enough. I feel like I have no hope forever, and I need to accept that he just doesn't want me anymore and move on with my life.

Here is a list of things I think I did well:

* Tried hard to be wonderful, light, fun, supportive and attractive - this worked great when things were going well. He told my mutual friend that I was looking so amazing - I know that he finds me very attractive and we have amazing chemistry. I also worked really hard to show him how much I cared, gave him little gifts, planned a weekend getaway for us at a B&B in Greenwich, planned fun dinners and lunches. Some of this was very much contradictory to DB principles, I know, but also it was working in the beginning, and I hope that someday he will look back at some of those times together (including mind-blowing sex) and thoughtful gifts and think: WTF did I do???.

* Bizarrely, he seemed to listen to me when I tried to talk to him about his irrational behavior, at least at first when he was still questioning his decision. I used to be the person he would go to for advice and guidance, and some of that respect was still there in his mind. There is so much unavoidable logic in me pointing out all the flaws in his thinking, and sometimes it would sway him and he would really listen. I just needed to keep my cool more and be a better listener rather than try to force feed it to him.

* Lost weight (the infidelity diet worked wonders) and got an amazing new wardrobe. Think he was really astounded by my makeover - there were times where he couldn't take his eyes off me.

Things I might have reconsidered / done better:

* Exposing the affair to co-workers. This certainly helped me as it allowed my team to understand my situation and give me air cover at the office (note: we both work together), but it also resulted in the situation being more real and making it harder for my ex to change his decision (though not sure he would have). I would still have exposed the affair to his family though and my very close friends, as otherwise he would have just gotten away with it in the end and I truly needed their support to get through this very difficult time.

* Wish I had more patience and prevented myself from panicking when the fear was setting in / he was backpeddling and/or saying difficult things that triggered my emotions. In those situations, I would start telling him exactly what I thought about him uncensored... I wish I could have taken a deep breath and kept myself from rushing to react / respond. NOTE TO OTHERS: this is critical! Don't make my mistake. And don't push your spouse into a corner if you don't have to - the more you force them to a decison, the more entrenched they will be.

* I wish I wouldn't have kicked him out of the house instantly upon learning of his affair. I am not sure this would have changed the outcome in any event, but I wish I would have taken more time to think about my options before I reacted. Maybe if I could have kept him at home I could have influenced things a bit more / made it harder for him to carry on with the OW. Probably not, and maybe that would have just been more painful for me too. I don't know...

* I wish I had done more to stop him from going to Germany to be with her over Labor Day weekend. I feel like before that trip he was really leaning towards me and our life; when he got back, he was totally brainwashed and it was the beginning of the end.

* I wish I would have checked in more often about our relationship and communicated my needs in the relationship (referring to the pre-crisis times). I wish I would have made our romance and sex more of a priority.

* I wonder if I should have given him more space / no contact sooner so that it was my decision vs. his to end it? Would that have helped? I don't know.

* I wish I could let go of this more, detach, and stop blaming myself for this or wondering why I wasn't good enough or lovable enough to prevent him from doing this to me. I wish I could stop feeling like I was somehow inadequate when compared to the OW.

I was just trying to lay out some of my thoughts about what worked and didn't throughout this whole process. It's hard, even in hindsight to figure out what works - so much is out of your control. There were moments where I really felt that I was making progress, he was being drawn home, and then he would see or talk to her and the pendulum would swing dramatically in the wrong direction.

Welcome other's views on what has worked or not.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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The dating is a personal choice. Although it's hard to condemn your W for Adultery when you're doing it to.

Plus it's not fair to the new person knowing that you're just using them as a ploy to get your W back and to get your rocks off.

You've only been at this for one month and need someone already? If you don't love yourself enough and need someone else to "make" you feel happy, then you might as well sign the papers now and do it cleanly.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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