Inside my chrysalis 6

[Ss06]

A sixth thread. >sigh<

At the end of my previous thread maybell posted this:

I'm saying it's not final because people change their minds. He may not realize he could, but we've heard many stories of how frequently people do. I'm saying, you are focusing on the bad and neglecting your own self.

But it sounds like that's where you need to be for the moment, so carry on.

I'm not saying that to be snarky. You've been so upbeat for so long that it was hard to believe you weren't in happy marriage a lot of the time. Now you're in anger. Go crazy, get it out.

You're right. People change their minds... But is it likely? My whole life is based on whether someone will change their mind. That's depressing. True but depressing.

I am definitely focusing on the bad. When I was focusing on the good I was wrong and seeing things that weren't there or weren't accurate. I'm struggling with finding balance and holding on to it.

I don't know what to do for myself. Honestly. A manicure here, yoga class there, special time with D... I love it but it only brings very temporary relief. I'm struggling with finding my positive voice again.

I was very upbeat before and come to find out, all the reasons why were false. I thought there were indications he might change his mind, thought I saw hope in his eyes, loved the changes I was making across the board... Now? It's hard to stay afloat let alone upbeat. I'm really trying. I'm hoping to get where Shining is with her perspective but man, I'm just not there.

Yes, I'm angry. Angry and so hurt. Just like so many of us. I used to be really good at logically thinking my way out of a problem but this one doesn't work with logic and it's too painful to emotion my way through it.

I met with my IC today. We talked about our role reversal of his emotionality and my logic and practical approach to our issues. We talked about my lack of emotional expression and lack of empathy for his. We talked about H's negative narrative and the litany of things I did and didn't do during the marriage, about he is not ready to see it any other way. She encouraged me to be more emotionally focused on myself and others. To practice empathy and empathy expression. To give H the space he needs.

This I can do.

[raliced]

Ss- I'm glad you posted - I wanted to add some words of encouragementbut your old one was locked

I don't know what to do for myself. Honestly. A manicure here, yoga class there, special time with D... I love it but it only brings very temporary relief. I'm struggling with finding my positive voice again.

I'm going to make a suggestion here- follow Maybell's lead and do something wild and crazy - maybe something you never thought about doing. And find something you think you can't do . There are few more empowering feelings than accomplishing something you never thought you could get done. Look at your local Groupon - lots of time they have lots of discounted activities, take up a new sport or maybe even go back to school for something? Just make it something that's a stretch and a little ambitious. This is just me - but finding activities that are mentally taxing or physically on the grueling side are about the only times my mind is completely off the situation, and Ss - you need a little vacation from all of this .

[Zimmy]

Oh Ss, I know exactly how you feel. I am going through the angry stage right now too. I can't seem to do anything right these days. Sometimes I want to be kind and compassionate because I think he is going through a crisis and sometimes I want to just write him off and never speak to him again and I can't help but think to myself, why did I deserve to be treated like this? Like I was worth nothing to him in the end.

I don't think I have any hope anymore, at least not unless he has an epiphany over the coming years once he realizes that the grass isn't greener with the OW. He seems to have finally chosen her over me as of last Sunday. Furthermore, he has burned so many bridges, I am on the cusp of moving out of our dream house, and now all of his co-workers and our friends know what that he had an affair that precipitated our break-up. Not sure how I have any chance to save this or even influence it at this point.

After the bomb drop, I tried so hard to be wonderful and patient, to be the kind of woman he would be crazy to leave, and it just wasn't enough to combat the allure of the OW in the end. We would go to dinner, and the chemistry was so amazing that we couldn't stop talking. He told me that I was beautiful and I noticed him staring at me on multiple occasions. We had amazing sex (ironic that he was now cheating on HER with me!). We shared fun activities like riding horses and going to the spa. But in the end, he was determined to leave me. So I felt rejected and heartbroken all over again. Looking back, I never had a chance.

[Maybell]

Aren't you a professional photographer? This seems like a great time to tackle a large, detailed, creative project just for you. Just for the challenge and pleasure of it. Or a business.

The last time I had a day when I did yoga and a pedicure on the same day, I felt awful. Just excessively hedonistic and lacking in purpose. Today I gave myself permission to sit down and write. Just write. I won't have some great Pulitzer Prize winning work out of it. But after fifteen minutes I came up with a pretty cool story idea. So that's my goal: to give myself permission to just write every day till November 30th, and see how I've changed. I felt so clean doing. My creative work.

Do something that will make you feel like yourself. Quit thinking about your H. GeorgiaBelle told us, those old marriages are dead and gone.

Be angry first if you need to, though. It's important to get that out of the way so you can move forward.

[Ss06]

Raliced and maybell, at first I was stumped and overwhelmed by the prospect of something wild and crazy because to me that meant risky. I couldn't think of anything and immediately began to feel boring and unexciting but maybell, your talk of writing is interesting. I've always wanted to write a memoir. I know, it's rather self-indulgent but I've always wanted to highlight that child abuse is not an affliction of the poor and uneducated.

I am one of three kids from two parents with highly advanced degrees in difficult subject matter, I was born in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, traveled the world before age 6, have attended 10 different schools through high school, left home at 16 to live in foster care, lived in a group home for a year, lived with my swim coaches my senior year, paid for my own high school tuition so I could finally go to ONE school for four straight years, got a full swimming scholarship to college, blah, blah, blah...

I don't know... Perhaps it's an interesting story to someone, with insane parts much like Augusten Burroughs' memoirs. I don't know where or how to begin but I could take a class, I guess. Something to consider right?

The reality is, maybell, my life completely lacks purpose. I need to find a purpose. I am a professional photographer and have wanted to work on a personal project for years but that too feels rather self-serving and indulgent. Maybe that's my excuse to not have to start, eh? I have two family sessions this weekend, which are always fun but I've lost my passion for it. So many people expect amazing photos for close to nothing. Very little value is placed on the art and talent of portraiture by the general public. It's shocking how many people say, "I can't spend more than $X, is that sufficient" and X ends up being 1/5th of my session fee and they want the digital photos for free. It's a hard business to have in LA where everyone is a "fauxtographer". It's discouraging.

I need to hear all this encouragement. I do eventually come out of my negative fog, I just need to know there's hope within me for something better and I've not seen that. I'll try to put the hope there since I can't find it. Here's hoping.

Zimmy, I can't imagine the pain of being overlooked despite incredible chemistry. Sounds like he's avoiding something with OW. I'm so sorry for your sitch. ((((Hugs))))

[Maybell]

Take a class if it motivates you to produce. I find it puts pressure on me to create something of great merit before I even finish forming the thought. It doesn't matter if your story (or how you write it) is interesting to anyone but you. Write it and see what happens.

Do the personal projects. You never know where they'll take you.

I think a lot about history, and I've come to the conclusion that every human pursuit beyond our basic needs is self-indulgent. So... If you're going to be self-indulgent, be awesome at it.

And feel better soon, little sister.

[vossy]

Ss06, why not start your own photography blog or something. It's not indulgent, it's just sharing your work. You can put anything you want there..

[Ss06]

Lol, maybell. I can be awesome at being self-indulgent.

I'm charging my camera batteries and went to check out a location this morning. I'm ramping up.

I found a job opening for a company at which I know a few people. One of them is looking into which department the job posting is for. In this job market it helps to know someone so I'm hoping this is a sign in a positive direction. Trying not to get too hopeful.

Today is a new day with lots to do. I'm getting there.

[Ss06]

I'm doing better. Working, even only 4 measly hours at a time at a mall retail store helps me keep my mind on anything but my situation thus elimination my overthinking capabilities. That has helped immensely.

I have to admit though, it's confusing. H has to go to court tomorrow for a fix-it ticket he never followed up with so to avoid the $1500 ticket he has to drive 2.5 hours to be in court at an ungodly early time.

Tonight is his weekday night with D but he asked if he could put her to bed at my place because he has to get up so early tomorrow. I said no prob. D wasn't feeling well tonight so he brought her over, made her soup, put her in pajamas and they relaxed while I went to a super intense, hard-core yoga class.

I came home and he'd emptied the dishwasher, cleaned the two dishes that were in the sink, washed their dinner dishes, soup pot, etc and loaded the dishwasher, cleaned the counters and made D's lunch for school tomorrow.

WHA?!

He never did stuff like that before let alone this well and now he's doing it while we're separated?? It's confusing.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate it and tell him so. It's very kind of him and incredibly self-less.

He's not a chore doer. Like, not at all. Why is he doing my dishes? Is this a test to see if I'll be appreciative? Am I reading into something I shouldn't?

Does your WAS do your dishes? Tidy the kitchen? Empty your dishwasher?

I'm aghast. Happy about it but aghast. What am I to make of these kind gestures?

[gan]

1. He opened a new cleaning business and wanted to test out a new product OR
2. He didn't do it. He brought little elves with him and they did it.

….and everything in between.

In other words, there's no way to tell Ss. Just be happy about it, show appreciation and let it go!

(Glad to hear you are doing better!)

[Zues126]

Hey SS...keep charging.

I've been having some flashes of anger. Some at STBX, some at the universe for allowing this. And the logical part of my brain keeps asking why? I mean...two people...why NOT choose to be loving and compassionate and committed?

Then I think about the reality of our M, and some of the things I did. If I had been her I probably would've made the same decision. So why did I act that way? Point is, I also fall short and did things that caused this type of pain and destruction. And while I can't take full responsibility for her choice to end the M and her actions since, I can't judge too harshly when I played such a large role.

As for purpose...look back at your life and see if you can find a pattern. I don't always know where to go, but when I look back at my life I see that competing (at work and with games) has been central to me. It seems to be what I do. I finally saw that and went with it. What are some things about you that have been lifelong?

[Card29]

Ss, I'm glad to hear your job is a form of GAL for you. Again, who knows what that could lead to. If nothing else, what it's doing for you now is healthy.

I don't know if there's anything to read into the chores by WAH. My WAW has made me some food, brought me some groceries without asking, has offered to set up alll of my auto bill pays when we split finances. Yet she has recently made it painfully clear that she wants nothing to do with our M and wants to see other people.

So as ganb8te said, acknowledge it (as you did), smile about it, and move on

[Maybell]

My H looked after the kids for me last week while I went out with friends and when I came home he had drunk two of the beers in the fridge and was watching my cable. Didn't thank me for the beers or comment on them (very different from what he usually drinks because they actually belong to a friend who hangs out at my house a lot), nor did he fold the kids' laundry or anything else. Apparently "babysitting" his children is all he's called to do.

I say, live in the moment, appreciate the chores, and then leave it behind. Your H is a confused fella. (Possibly trying to shore up his narrative of what a great supportive husband he's been...)

How're you doing??

[Ss06]

I'm ok, maybell. Confused even more after today. H is hanging around a lot. Claims to have work to do in the studio but hangs out in the house with D and me.

He helped me out tonight by picking up D and taking her to karate on my night because I got off work a few minutes late. He hung out and talked with me and a couple of the moms at karate, he played his typical self: hilarious, charming and even more funny. I said something about dinner being so hard on Tuesday and Thursday nights because of karate and homework and bath time, etc. he offered to pick up D's favorite take out. Awesome. I thanked him profusely. We arrived home and he had it all set out complete with homemade steamed broccoli, milk, etc. this is stuff he could barely muster the strength to do begrudgingly before BD and now he's all about it.

Then strangely, he discovered a splinter in his finger (what he's doing near wood of any kind is confounding but whatever). He chose to perform surgery on himself 3 feet from D with a knife from our knife block. Trying not to be critical I said only that it didn't seem very sterile. He agreed and proceeded to wash the knife in the sink before using it to dig out his splinter (??????!!!!!). He cursed out of frustration (or pain, who knows) loudly so D and I could not ignore the display. How weird right? What the heck is going on?

He's here a lot and not just in the studio, he's in the house with me watching TV, talking about D's teacher, homework, upcoming tests (before BD he barely knew what time school started let alone who her teacher was or when she had tests), funny things that happened throughout the day, etc. it's confusing and stumping. I'm taking it as face value but it's odd. Very odd.

[vossy]

Sounds to me like he's lonely and misses the interaction.

[bravo61]

I think it's great that he is more involved in your D life. While his behavior is confusing it sounds like a positive baby step to me. And he was doing it not you! I'm jealous as beck. Just appreciate as it comes and try not to look for negative. Although it seems as if all of us only experience negative with our spouse's.

[Ss06]

I'm back to feeling like [censored] again. I have no one to talk to about all this and I feel like I have no more tears to shed, yet hey still come.

His hopelessness is overwhelming. I just desperately want to penetrate it and SHOW him.

He just wants to start a new life. He's resentful for this separation because he has to wait to even do that (find a house, perhaps date). His words are so final.

I'm not going to make it through this. Everything is about waiting. I have to wait for my IC appointment on Monday, my DB coaching apt on tuesday, my BFF isn't available to talk, my other friends aren't the right choice to talk to, my brothers don't even know what's going on and they're both out if the country right now,... I only have you guys but even you guys can't come here and hold me while I weep.

I'm just so lost.

I know precisely what to do to fix our marriage but I'm not given the option.

I told him I didn't want to have the regret of knowing what to do to help fix it and not be given a chance for it.

He said he didn't want to regret working on the marriage and when it doesn't work say, "I was almost out, almost divorced".

We are on polar opposites of all this and he's so strong-willed and stubborn for the sake of being right that he won't budge.

I can't pick myself off the floor literally and proverbially. I can't do this alone. I can't feel like this anymore and people keep saying "let it go, move on" but move on to what? I want this to work, I know it can work. I've made mistakes, not been the person I know I could have been. I know.

And to think of my daughter. If I'd known I'd be in this place facing all of this I wouldn't have had her. It's a terrible thing to say but oh my god, I can't take all this pain.

I'm really hitting bottom and I don't know how to get up. I just don't. I can talk buzz words like hope and making myself a better person and he'd be a fool to leave and all that but NONE of that gets me off the floor sobbing.

How? How do I turn this around? How?

[LisaB]

Ss, you are doing so well! You are having a bad moment. Go with it. Feel the depths of the pain. Cry. Afterward you will pick yourself up off the floor, feel much better and have the strength to carry on! I know you will!

Remember this is a rollercoaster and at the moment you are at the down part but it will come back up! It sounds like things with your H are in a positive place. He is hanging around and participating more in your D's activities.

Try to have patience and when your H is hanging around SHOW OFF THOSE 180s. He needs to see lasting changes to pull him out of his stubborn negativity. You can do it girl!!!

We love you and are here for you. Be sad, wallow in the pain and then you will feel better.

Big hugs, Lisa

[Ss06]

Lisa, I appreciate the encouragement and I'm sorry for being negative but he has specifically said that any changes I'm making mean nothing to him whatsoever. Nothing.

[vossy]

Ss06, without getting too detailed or personal - and not to negate your feelings AT ALL - but are you feeling hormonal? Because I always have an emotional meltdown around that time, almost like I have no choice.

Truthfully, there is no specific answer as to how you turn this around. But for your own sake, and for your daughter's sake, you really only have one choice and that is to keep moving forward. If big steps are too hard, or unavailable to you thanks to your H's stubbornness, work on the tiny steps. The *seriously* tiny steps. Do something that cheers you up, even if it's stupid. (For me, I watch stupid teen movies like Twilight, as embarrassing as that is, simply because they breed that sort of hope that only teenagers can have because they haven't been hurt yet!) Or go for a walk. Do everything one step at a time. Don't think about tomorrow, or the next, or the next. Just work on getting through one hour at a time.

[vossy]

Lisa, I appreciate the encouragement and I'm sorry for being negative but he has specifically said that any changes I'm making mean nothing to him whatsoever. Nothing.

So what if he says that? Does that mean it's true?

When my ex and I were still talking, he'd shriek something at me like "The writing was on the wall, you wanted to live in [this city]" and then a month later I'd say "BTW, I never wanted to live in [city] and he goes "I know, I never thought you did." And I'd be like WTF!??!?!?!?

There is EVERY chance he has no clue what he thinks/feels.

[claire7]

We are here. We get it. But you know what? You absolutely WILL get through it. You will find strength you didn't even know you could muster-- for you and your daughter. And that itself will build your confidence and help you grow ever stronger.

It suxx. I totally totally get it. I have one relatively easy kid and I did not sign up to do this alone. I hear you.

But you can do this. We are here.

I've found strength in those moments where I felt like I just HAD to lean on someone... But no one was available. ..so I had to just put on my BGP and get through it myself... and I did... and realized I COULD.

And so can you.

((Hugs))

[Ss06]

Two weeks ago, vossy, I was hormonal. It's not minimizing my feelings, it's a reasonable question to ask. At the moment I'm not particularly hormonal but my feelings are the same.

I'm just completely hopeless. I can't do anything but cry.

I'm going to out some cozy socks on and vacuum for a while. Crying while vacuuming is efficient and allows me to ugly cry noisily and none of the neighbors can hear. This is a big step because vacuuming requires getting off the floor.

It's not quite putting my BGP on, Claire, but right now I can only aspire to that.

I can't take a walk because I will just cry while walking down the street, while loudly muttering curse words and "whhhyyyy?" And we already have one crazy guy on our street, I don't need to be added to that.

In good news: D got her black stripe at karate. She's amazing and learning so much so fast.

Bad news: because of our schmucking separation I didn't get to see her earn it, H did.

I feel a lot like I did after I had D and had PPD. Like H and D would just be better off without me. I'm not suicidal, just wanting to physically disappear from all this and never come back, like move to South Africa or something. Obviously I won't do that because of D but it's the same thought as when I had PPD. Perhaps my antidepressants need major adjusting.

I'm off to fire up the Dyson. I really could use advice, specific actions, on getting up from a super low point, perhaps the lowest (god, let's hope it doesn't get lower than this). What do you do? How do you cope? I don't have good coping mechanisms and I'm not good at self soothing. Things most people learn in toddlerhood, I haven't figured out yet. I really need help.

[LisaB]

Hi Ss, I know you are at a negative point but what vossy said is true. These WAS spout all kinds of stuff. Maybe it is true, maybe it is true in the moment, and maybe it is complete nonsense. Try not to listen to it.

The typical ways to break out of a funk you already mentioned, like go for a walk, watch a funny movie, etc. But for me the best thing is just to feel really sorry for myself, cry my eyes out and go to sleep. Later things are better.

Vent to us on here, write in your journal, watch a sad movie and cry. Feel the pain and it will pass. Watch The Fault in Our Stars. What a touching movie. I cried a lot. On the airplane... haha.

Things will improve, and especially your mood will improve. I promise!

Hugs, Lisa

[claire7]

Ss,

I hear you. The feeling like they will be better off without me, not wanting to die, but wanting to just disappear (I fantasized about heading out west to the desert).

My rabbi spoke last month about how small positive actions can lead to changes in thoughts and feelings.

So, go get up and do something. Because both the doing itself, and the realizing that you were able to do something, will help you move forward.

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Ss,

I'm sorry you are in a difficult place. We all know that it totally sukks and that you can't be *up* all the time. I do know this. Regardless of what happens, you will be fine. As a matter of fact, you can be better than ever. I realize that isn't a huge consolation at this point, however it is true.

Most of the *changes* I implemented post BD while my xh lived at home were more touching and $ex. I thought that we just had a SSM. However, h prattled off a new list each day and some things he mentioned were flat out ridiculous. I don't tell you this to make you feel bad, I just mention this because he said "he knew I was trying but I just wasn't that kind of person." And I never dreamed he was the kind of person who would up and walk out on his family. However, that really doesn't matter at this point. And while I hate to say what your h says doesn't matter, that's his story. You must focus on you and your D.

Congrats on your new job. I think that's a nice distraction and a great way for you to meet some new peeps. Enjoy him helping out around the house and with D. What does it mean? Who knows? Enjoy it and it's okay to cry. I still do as well some days.

Hang in there!

[vossy]

Here's something weird to do: Go on YouTube and watch videos of either babies laughing or Bradley Cooper + Jimmy Fallon laughing (it was on the other day).

For one, you can't help but laugh. But two, supposedly laughing is quite LITERALLY the best medicine, or so science says.

[KGirl]

ss - time will make this better. I know I felt so cr*ppy the first several months. Crying daily. Wishing I could disappear. All of that. But as you get used to life without H and realize some of the positives (they are there even if it's just getting to watch what you want on TV!) AND really accepting that even though you know exactly how to fix things, you can't make H participate if he doesn't want to, you will let go more. It just takes time. It will become easier.

[Ss06]

Vacuuming helped and my carpets feel better, too. I

t may seem remedial but I need to come up with a checklist of things I can do without thinking to help me out of a big slump.

1. Get up!
2. Do something physical (jumping jacks, clean, vacuum, dishes). This can and probably should be done while sobbing.
3. Keep doing it until a teeny tiny answer comes. Reminders like: "so what if he said that, it doesn't mean it's true.", "believe none of what he says and half of what he does", "time and patience change many things", "convincing him is just going to make him turn away".
4. Take a HOT shower and cry more.
5. Moisturize heavily and hope for depuffage.

Separately, Georgiabelle your story of how H had a new litany every day of his issues, that's my H. Every time we talk there's either completely new stuff or a new intensity for the old stuff. A repeated phrase is, "you don't understand" and there's a whole lot of assuming and projecting how I feel or think or what I will or won't do, how I will or won't handle certain situations, how no amount of change could help him get over the atrocities I've committed against him, how there's no way to get through the masses of resentment he feels, that there's no such thing as starting over or wiping the sleet clean (even though I've never proposed such a thing).

So does all of that mean he just needs A LOT more time? That he's so stuck behind dark glasses that he can't see a single tree let alone the forest through the trees?

Ugh, typing all that out means I need to vacuum again.

[vossy]

Ss06, I honestly and truly believe there are a LOT of positives in your situation, despite how it seems. But you have to remember that it always looks different to an outsider than an insider. I do think your H needs a lot more time, but I also believe in this old Shakespeare (I think) saying:

"Me thinks he doth protest too much" (or something like that)

He repeats these feelings because the more you say something out loud, the more it must be true. That doesn't mean it is. But he is probably trying to convince himself of that as much as you, because then he can't feel guilty or like he has done the wrong thing, etc.

Unfortunately for you, you are going to have to keep chugging away, slowly but surely. And it might take a long time. But you have a few things on your side: a great co-parenting relationship, no OW that we know of(??) and the fact that he seems to enjoy being around you and your D.

Keep these things in mind and focus on what you CAN do, not what you can't. You CAN present a PMA every time you see him. You CAN look good. You CAN validate his feelings at every turn. You CAN make every interaction he has with you and your D a positive one. You CAN be a better person. You CAN enforce the changes you have made, whether he acknowledges them or not.

As for making yourself better, keep all the above things in mind, but also find out what lifts your mood and do those things all the time: movies, walks, snacks, takeout, exercise, cleaning, manicures, facials, time with friends, reading, playing with your D, etc.

And also keep in mind natural mood lifters like laughing, exercise, etc.

[Ss06]

Vossy, you are sent to me straight from the heavens because I needed to hear everything you (and everyone else) has said tonight. I took a screen shot of your last post because I'm going to need to read it every hour.

Focus on what I can do. What I AM doing. I need to tattoo that to the end of my nose.

I hate that I keep losing my way so easily these days. I'll fix that eventually. Just add it to the list. Right now I'm looking for where I last had my BGP.

I watched the Jimmy Fallon and Bradley Cooper video and laughed. I needed that. As I was watching it I got a text from H:

H: Is there anything you wanted to say, I can come by now. Or before 9. Just wanted to give you the option incase you felt there was something left.
Me: have you eaten dinner?
H: not yet.
Me: I'm starved. you?
H: sure
Me: I have no make up on. In n out or similar.
H: sure, I'll come by.

Not reading into it just eating. Not talking about R. I'll suggest the jimmy Fallon video.

It's odd that we just had a R talk and now we are eating together.

[vossy]

I truly believe that if you remain positive, you CAN turn things around, one way or another. Send positive vibes out, they come back. It's already working for ya!

BTW, your posts often make me laugh out loud (e.g. tattooing it to the end of your nose) so you have that going for you tonight. Keep it up.

[raliced]

I'm really hitting bottom and I don't know how to get up. I just don't. I can talk buzz words like hope and making myself a better person and he'd be a fool to leave and all that but NONE of that gets me off the floor sobbing.

How? How do I turn this around? How?

Ok Ss,

You don't know me - but I want you to envision me telling you this in person - I'm 5'10 with a steely gaze and my friends always tell me how they were initmadated by me when they first knew me.

Ok....stop worrying about turning "this" around. Just worry about turning yourself around....right now.

Who is this Ss writing this tonight? She's not the Ss I have come to know through her posts.

The Ss I know overcame a tragic childhood. The Ss I know survived PPD. She has raised an awesome daughter. She marched out and got a job (yeah I know its not what you were hoping for, but its a job). You're the one who has been on this forum dishing out support to others routinely and with great humor and insight.

I've known people who have had the bomb dropped on them - and a lot of them curl up in fetal position and cry into their latte/alcohol for months or years. Did you do that? No. You got up, dusted yourself off and reached out for a constructive way to aproach the problem. Do you know how rare that is?

Look - your H is going through something - he is spewing all kinds of c***. He's not going to come out of it soon. You need to stop letting him hurt you. You're doing the work - he's not (no matter how many trips he takes to see the leaves turn). I know you made mistakes, but he needs to grow up. Embrace the possiblity of life post-H. You will still be awesome. You will protect your daughter. Your daughter will be awesome. You will find much in life that is sweet and joyful. And if your H grows up, your partnership will be all the stronger.

Ss - stand up right now, beat your chest ala Tarzan and shout "I am Ss, hear me f****** roar"! (I'm not profane in real life - but sometimes the words just fit)

You deserve better than this Ss, and right now - you're the one who needs to treat yourself better.

[Ss06]

Raliced, I had no idea you are so tall! I'm 5'2" so I'd have to look WAY up to see your steely gaze but I heard you loud and clear.

I did have things more together earlier on in the process. I'm not sure what has taken me off that path. I know who I am and what I stand for but I don't really know how all that fits in the world without my family complete, you know. I know I can stand in my own but I don't want to and it's THAT that's holding me back. I've stood on my own from a young age and I'm done with that. I'm tired of standing on my own, only able to rely on myself. I guess I'm fighting that but I need to stop and be more accepting. I'm not great at acceptance. I want to be though.

I need to treat myself better. Yes. More than facials and manicures. I need to reframe my thinking. Stop wallowing or allowing myself to go there. I need to vacuum more when I start to wallow... At least then my house would be cleaner, right?

I am doing the work, you're right. And no matter how many trips to Santa Barbara for wine tasting or NY to see the leaves change, he has to do the work. He has to see his role. He has to own his part. He has to find his own hope.

I just don't believe in him enough that he will do that work and THAT'S what hurts. Will he do the hard work or take the easy road? I hate that I already know the answer.

So, outside of manicures and facials, how do I treat myself better? I need details, specifics.

[vossy]

You say you don't believe in him, but isn't he already changing? He's doing more for your daughter than ever before, so he does have the capacity to make positive changes. And truthfully, I don't think he's as okay as he acts about all this. He makes a pretty obvious effort to hang out with you.

I think what's going on is that deep down the reason you were okay in the beginning and you're finding it tough now is because you thought it would be done by now, or that you'd be back on track. And so the fact that your H is still talking the talk and walking the walk is a little shocking for you. That doesn't mean the outcome has changed, it just means you need to stop putting a timeline on the result you want.

[raliced]

I'm going to say sorry upfront for the spelling. I'm typing this on the phone and I'm terrible at it.

I think you need to treat yourself better by doing a lot more GAL.

You seem like you are mentally exhausting yourself thinking of the situation constantly. And of course that's going to affect your mood.

Exhaust yourself mentally doing something else. Was there a subject in school you wanted to learn more about? Take some classes. Write a book for a civilians about how to take better pictures and publish it on Kindle.

I'm suggesting something that will make you stretch, and will take up more space in your head. From reading your posts, I just feel like you need a break from thinking about this 24/7- you just sound worn out.

And frankly, I would consider no more R talks with H for a while, even if he wants to initiate them.

[Ss06]

You're right, I did have expectations that we'd be closer to reconciliation than we are.

He does make an effort to hang out. It's usually under the guise of something else (oh I had to stop by to pick up D's karate bag, etc) but even tonight, after a painful R talk that ended poorly, he still texted to see if I wanted to talk more. It's confusing but not negative, right.

He is still walking the walk and talking the talk even firmer than before but his actions are different. It's confusing.

He has been making changes. He's great with D. He's much more involved with her in all areas. I even heard him say today that he thinks I'm a great mom. Haven't heard that from him in years. Years.

Timelines. I've always needed them. I've always needed to know when something might end. No end in sight or even the hope of a good ending... It's unbearable. Or at least seemingly so.

[Maybell]

Ss, just wanted to check in. You're in good hands and I'll leave you with them. But I was here and I still am holding on to the belief that you will be more than fine, you'll be amazing. Hang in there.
Hug.
Hug
Hug
Hug
Hug.

[Cadet]

Hey SS

I see you used to be a swimmer.

I am a swimming official for USA swimming and have been doing it since you were probably in high school.

Does your daughter swim?
Is that something you can get involved with.

I know that USA swimming is trying to recruit more officials.
So how about I try to recruit YOU!

Even if we live on opposite ends of the US.

Its a great GAL activity.

[Ss06]

Are you serious, Cadet?! Wow!

Officiating is definitely a great GAL activity! My daughter, while a great swimmer (a natural flyer and mid-distance/sprinter like her momma), is very involved in karate right now. It's good because I think I've spent enough of my life's weekends at meets. These days a lot of my weekends are spent shooting (photos) or spending time with her. I will absolutely keep it in mind though. What a great idea!

So were you a swimmer, too? I guess most officials are.

[Cadet]

So were you a swimmer, too? I guess most officials are.

No my daughter started to swim at age 5 and I got involved with it then.

She also swam in college and I just enjoyed doing it so although she retired I still do officiating

[Card29]

I just don't believe in him enough that he will do that work and THAT'S what hurts. Will he do the hard work or take the easy road? I hate that I already know the answer.

You don't know that answer, so don't worry or think about it. This is a crisis for him, too. There is no way he will come out of his fog unchanged in some way. there's no telling what those changes might be, or if they'll be good or bad, but he will not be exactly the same. If he comes out of his fog and values what he would stand to lose, you might be surprised at the lengths he could be willing to go to save it. But we could all only hypothesize about these things, so for your own sanity, don't.

Timelines. I've always needed them. I've always needed to know when something might end. No end in sight or even the hope of a good ending... It's unbearable. Or at least seemingly so.

2 years, 2 months and 10 days, remember? This will be resolved by then. (Maybell wisdom)

[Ss06]

It's seems so easy in theory, Card. Not so easy in practice. I know I'm not alone and so many others are suffering. I'm feeling very self-centered at the moment so the idea of more self care or treating myself better all seems so indulgent but I don't have many options. I can't spend my life vacuuming and crying and lying on the floor.

I just don't know how to stop pondering and hoping and wanting. It's killing me from the inside out.

I need to figure this out.

[Cadet]

I can't spend my life vacuuming and crying and lying on the floor.

I just don't know how to stop pondering and hoping and wanting. It's killing me from the inside out.

I need to figure this out.

Focus on things YOU can CONTROL.

What CAN YOU DO?

Thats why GAL is so important.

[Card29]

SS, I totally understand. Sometimes I offer support here to people who need it when I need to hear the same thing. I am a wreck since WAW told me she wants to date around, and so I'm in the same boat as you. Breakdown everytime I come home, wake up in the middle of the night every night and can't fall back asleep. as you said, I can't live like this and need to figure it out

I've never been as anxious about the indefinite timeframe as you, but I am empathizing with your anxiety now since I am fearing the *possibility* of WAW dating OM now.

Someday we will be through this pain, Ss. We will.

[gan]

Hey Ss, Sorry to hear that you've been going through a rough patch. I think a lot of us here struggle with the feeling that our WAH may never put in the work. But that's a hypothetical question and the answer doesn't matter at the moment. What matters is you getting YOU back on track.

I struggle with the self-indulgent/selfish feelings, too, and so far haven't ventured down the mani/pedi/facial path for the same reason. I finished reading Passionate Marriage a couple of weeks ago and there is a great quote in there about how relationships go well when both partners drive themselves forward. Never mind the "both partners" part, reading this gave me permission to do what ever it is that I need to do to get a hold of myself. The future of my M depends on it!

Some of my best GAL activities have involved volunteering. In addition to me just feeling plain old good about helping others, the people who benefitted from my contributions sent wonderful vibes of appreciation! What volunteer opportunities are there in your area?

I don't remember - are you doing yoga/mindfulness meditation? Sounds like that could be useful for you too given the thought overdrive. My IC recommended that I commit to a daily practice as a way to deal with a whole range of issues (including reactive communication, which I recall talking with you about a while ago).

Are you still living in the marital home? I just moved into a new place and although I initially dreaded the prospect, it has done absolute wonders. I feel like a new person; I'm operating from a new place. Could you consider moving and starting fresh? I realize that may be a little more tricky to do with D7 in tow.

[Ahoy]

Oh dear -- vacuuming, crying, and lying on the floor. That could have been me last week as well. It does come in waves. Sometimes you have to succumb to those feelings, but then let them go and move on. Sometimes I don't even know why I'm crying anymore.

Keep surrounding yourself with friends and family and seek out life-affirming activities that give you purpose and pleasure in life. Notice where you are putting your attention. If you are focusing a lot on your H and the situation, practice drawing your attention to something else.

Hang in there! Hugs.

[Shining]

Ss, I am caught up on your sitch. I'm so sorry this is a tough time.

As they say, this stuff is not for the faint of heart. The emotional ride will take you up, down, sideways, frontward and back.

I am certainly no vet. I'm not a therapist. However, I am in a very good place now. I am so like you, in many ways. I will be glad to share what I have experienced, what I've done about it, and what I think.

I apologize for the book....I don't typically post this long on others' threads. I wanted to share so much on this since I was exactly here not too long ago.

When I was in and out of the lowest of lows, they hit me at several different points throughout this journey.

During those lows, I was a bit like you, in that I cried almost daily. When I needed to let the big cries out, it was usually in my car. That was where I would unleash my screams during loud music in an abandoned parking lot.

As if my sitch wasn't hard enough, I became jobless, and it lasted for almost 2 months. The last months of my old job were also extremely slow, and stressful, and I was ridden with anxiety. I had far too much time to think about H and miss him. And to wonder if he missed me.

It wasn't until I began to really take the time, and focus on me, that I started to feel human again.

It was not easy. It was not a simple decide-to-do-it-and-there-it's-done kind of process. It happens in layers.

I read the words everywhere on the boards. So much so, that they can tend to lose some of their impact and meaning. "Focus on you." "GAL." "Detach."

So, as I would read the words, I would know in my head, that "those things" were what I needed to do. But I had no clue HOW. So the info would stall there. As a far away concept. Why?

I was still far too focused on my H.

What he said, what he did, where he was, did he text, how many minutes between responses, what will he think if I wear my ring, or if I don't wear my ring, will he play words game, is he depressed, will he file, is he still seeking to date, does he think about me, what color were his socks today, when he blinked it was a little more with one eye than the other, and what does that mean????

I didn't think I could stop. The truth is, I didn't want to stop. I would not acknowledge that to myself, or posters here for a long time. I had to ask what was I getting out of thinking of him so much? If I know I need to stop, why am I not doing it?

The answer for me, and I see it in you, too? I still thought I could fix him.

No, not thought.... I KNEW I could. I truly thought if I love him enough, he will come back. I told myself I know him better than anyone. Inside and out. I know his fears. His worries. I know what makes him happy. I know how to talk to him. I know his past, his pain, his desires, his dreams....

Then I learned several things.

One, was this: as convinced as I was, that I was right about all I thought, I really really wasn't. I assumed. In fairness, I made these assumptions based on what he said. But, as we have seen, anyone can and will change their mind. Anyone can tell us what they think and feel and want one day, and want something else the next. Scary thought.

The truth is, I CAN'T know what's in another person's head. I CAN'T know their plans until I see them happen. No one can. So, if I don't really know those things for certain, how can I possibly be able to fix him?

I thought I could because I'm a fixer. What do you MEAN I can't fix him??? Of course I can!

Nope. Seriously, Shining....if, over DECADES of experts, doctors, therapists, posters here and others who have dealt with this couldn't fix their patient, H or W, what makes me so different?

Nothing. I can't fix him.

Not only can I NOT fix him? More importantly, I learned this:

Why would I want to?

Even if I could fix him and make it all better, it would deprive HIM, of the much needed experience, HIS journey, of learning on his own. His own tough painful lessons.

"But, I don't want him in pain." Hmmm. Not about what I want.
"But, I know the answers if he would just hear me." Hmmm. My answers are not about him. They're about me.

Ss, your answers and solutions for him are really about you.

I had to get honest with myself about that. Uuuggghhhh......tough, tough stuff, Ss.

I know, without a doubt, that you love him, very much. Love him enough to back off. To get out of his way. To allow him to walk his path. Even if that path does not include you.

Choosing detachment doesn't mean you love him less. It means you love him so much, that you will remove yourself as a distraction, and make room for him to live his life.

Ss, your H truly needs to do what he will do. He needs to. He thinks he needs to. Which means, he needs to.

You can't control what he experiences. You can't make him want to come back. You can't just make him learn what you think he should learn. Ss, you can not fix this.

Because it's not about you, or what you think. It's his crisis. His life. Even if you don't agree. And it hurts. OMG it f'n hurts. How can't it? His life is without you right now. It's what he thinks he needs.

It is so difficult to accept, and the suddenness of everything changing. It was sudden from our view, anyway.

During this difficult stuff, which you can not fix, the biggest and most important thing, is to use this time to fix what you can, which is you. USE THIS TIME. You will not regret it.

I often read, and have spoken to a few, who ONLY regret that they took so long to really put the work into themselves. Their only regret was waiting, stalling, hesitating.

It's hard. But, so worth it.

I see you doing a lot of things for yourself, GAL, which is great. However, IMO, if you're only doing those types of things, they can just serve as a distraction. The real turning point for me, was in looking inward. The digging. The "whys" of what I do what I do.

In order to get my focus off my H long enough to work on me, I had to actually start to work on me. Now, THOSE were painful days, as you may have read.

I can tell you this: I don't have the extreme lows like I used to anymore. It took a long time. A lot of patience. A lot of tears. A lot of uncomfortable questions to answer.

I still have more to do.

As T2 wrote, it's truly amazing on the other side.

Plus, bacon.

[claire7]

Ss,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. But it gets better, I promise.

We all have our own paths to follow, but just to give you a sense of what it will feel like for you someday: This morning, on my first BD anniversary, I saw my husband's apartment for the first time. My D wanted to show me something she was building when I came to pick her up. It was in his bedroom. So there I was, in his apartment, in his bedroom. I looked around a teeny bit, I admit. I saw a strip of those photo booth pics on his night stand-- I'm guessing from the recent wedding he went to, as similar pics were posted on line. It was too far away to see, but I'm also guessing it was him and an OW (b/c I think it was too small for a group shot, and besides it would be weird to put a group shot on your night table.)

Anyway, so there i am, BD day, his new BR, nightstand pics. A lot of stuff.

And I was a bit sad. And even teared up for a minute. And then I played soccer with my D on this gorgeous day, then we put on costumes and visited friends with spouses and babies and had a lovely fabulous day and barely thought of him at all.

It gets better, I promise.

[dgb60]

This advice was exactly what I needed to hear. I need to understand and actually respect that H's journey is his own that he needs to go through it without interference from me. In the meantime, I will be on a journey of my own. I just pray that we reconnect once our journeys are completed.

[Ss06]

Oh my word. I cannot express my gratitude to you Shining and Claure and Card and Maybell and ganb8te and Ahoy... And all of you.

Shining, I needed to read every word you wrote. Every. Single. Word. I have been so low and made so many pitfalls and backtracks and then gotten low again. So low that I honestly could not get off the floor yesterday and I didn't stop crying for hours upon hours.

I feel like I've aged 10 years in three months. Seriously.

I'm very wrapped up in my confusion with him spending so much time around me. He invited me to lunch today with D. I miss D so much when she's at his place that it's hard to turn down invites that include her. I got in his car and saw a notebook on the floor. It was entitles "sings about her". Great. I inhaled, furrowed my brow, sat silently for a minute and decided to not let it ruin lunch.

I'm not sure I did great but 1. I didn't cry about it all day and spend the rest of the day on the floor, 2. H did ask me if I was ok, that it seemed I got into a bad mood right when I got into his car (he knew), 3. It's part of his process and I can't fix him.

Shining, your process is mine. I think I can fix him. You nailed it. Dead on.

It'll take sometime for me to come to terms with the reality of that but I AM working harder at self-focus rather than focusing on him. Right now that means self-care.

Emotional, physical, spiritual care, every day. One day at a time. One step at a time.

I need to find my value without extraneous things. My value does not increase because I'm married to H, it doesn't increase because of my job, or because I'm a mom. What am I worth? To me? To others? What is my value?

I don't know who I am if I'm not H's wife, or D's mom, or Kelsey's BFF. I'm a karate mom, a library volunteer, an ex college swimmer, a college drop out, currently underemployed at Banana Republic, a child abuse survivor, a yoga enthusiast, an Italian food expert, a wine connoisseur...

But WHO am I? That's all stuff that I use to define me but when that's all gone, what's left. Only what I build, right?

I am on the slow search for my big girl panties but I am finding them, with your support. I'm just not sure they fit.

Should I be hanging out with H so much? Should I just put a hold on that for a while? It's confusing for me and it seems like a crutch for him. What do you all think?

It's hard to be ME focused when around him. It's clear he enjoys my company but maybe a week off. He hits NY next weekend and I'm super busy this week so it might happen naturally. I can reevaluate after that.

This stuff has absolutely brought me to my knees. It's not just hard, it's Herculean and not for the weak hearted.

I'll get there. I know I will. One day at a time.

Claire, I'm sorry about the pictures on the night stand today. I'm impressed with your strength and ability to recognize the hurt in the moment and move on with the day. I hope to get there. I will get there. It might take me a year but I'll get there.

I have to be honest, it would be super easy to become a functioning alcoholic during this journey. Super easy. Not saying I have a problem. One glass a wine a week does not a problem make but I can definitely see it as an easy way to numb this horrible pain.

[Card29]

Shining, that hit deep with me, too. I am scared of this journey tonight because for the first time since I started DB, I don't think I can do it. I'm always checking Ss's threads because I'm rooting for her, but also because of some similarities in our sitches and the peaks and valleys of our roller coasters.

Ss, I'm really hoping you have a great day soon. I was I had some wisdom for you regarding your conundrum of spending (too much?) time with WAH. I am a wreck this week and especially tonight, so any helpful advice I give would only be luck. I'll spare you and step aside for someone more stable to give you some insight

[Cadet]

I often read, and have spoken to a few, who ONLY regret that they took so long to really put the work into themselves.
Their only regret was waiting, stalling, hesitating.

I would not dwell on this.

Each person figures it out in their own time frame.

Just like we can not speed up their journey, we can also not speed up Yours.

We each do it at our own pace.

Their are no shortcuts or easy buttons.

[Ss06]

Card, wouldn't an easy button be great right now? Ah huh, it really would.

Well, I'm rooting for you, too. Our situations and roller coasters are similar and both new so we both struggle with settling into this journey.

I keep fighting it. Adapting and accepting are weaknesses of mine. I always adjust the situation to suit me and clearly that's not going to work here.

It takes physical and constant effort, Card, to stop thinking about him, what he's doing, thinking, his mindset, the impact on our D... I physically have to say out loud to myself, "STOP"!!!! I then try to direct my thoughts elsewhere.

Thinking about him and my situation just spirals and turns into me on the floor in tears. I see the pattern and I'm trying to break it. What is your pattern? What can you do to break yours?

Strangely I'm day dreaming about moving. Moving to Northern California. I submitted my resume for a position up there and I'm mentally day dreaming about living there. I even looked to see if there's a karate studio nearby so the transition would be smoother for D. The schools are incredible, teacher /student ratio awesome, near my BFF, near a big city that I love, better weather. Granted it's pricey but given what I hear alimony and child support could be, that may not be much of an issue.

It's not good because I've gone from one obsessive thought to another, I recognize that but it's helping me survive right now... And I'm not on the floor crying.

MWD says that sometimes doing nothing is doing something. I am not good at doing nothing... But it's something I'm going to get good at I think.

Saw H this morning really quickly and they are coming over to carve pumpkins later. Seeing so much is starting to get old so my plan is to throw myself into D and pumpkins maybe some baking, too. Anything but H.

[LisaB]

Hey Ss, random thought but what if you leave D and H together with the pumpkins and go out and do something fun! Wouldn't that be a 180? Get dressed up, and when H gets there say "oh hey have fun with the pumpkins, I have plans tonight ta ta!" and take your cute little self out the door. See a movie or whatever.

I know you love spending time with D but it seems like your H just playing house with you and always hanging around is not really working! Maybe you can shake things up and make him wonder if you have a date.

Just an idea.

And also I like the idea to move to Northern Cal. It is great up there! But darn expensive, although LA real estate is not cheap Nor Cal is CRAZY! Lots of well paying jobs though!

Good luck! Hugs, Lisa

[Ss06]

Thanks for suggesting that, Lisa. It's 1:10 right now and I have to leave around 3 for a photo session an hour away. So, I'll just leave them to it.

NorCal. It's sounding better and better.

[Gotan74]

Ss one day at a time. You can't make him feel differently, only he can decide that you can make him happy. I'm going through that now and it will drive you crazy. You can see that they want to be with you but you can't understand why they just don't come home. It hurts and is very confusing but keep up the good work and remember to take car of yourself.

[Georgiabelle]

SS,

You are one strong lady who has dealt with a great deal of caca in life. I know you are in a place you don't want to be, however you WILL get through to the other side.

This probably has been mentioned, but I'm just tossing out an idea. It sounds like your h likes to "hang out." I know you want to and hope that he sees the changes you are making. I would suggest pulling back a bit. Not in a cold way, just decline some things. I think that may help with your detachment a bit and help you get your mind to a better place. Just a thought.

Hang in there:-)

[Jefe]

"You can see that they want to be with you but you can't understand why they just don't come home. It hurts and is very confusing..."

Well put, Gotan. That's exactly how I feel some days.

[bravo61]

Prayers Ss. I know its tough. These WAS suck!!!!!!

[uRworthy]

Hey SS. I saw we had a mutual friend in Shining so I thought I'd stop by. Forgive me as I havent read all your threads.

I wanted to tell you what happened when I first got the bomb. I went to a therapist and I squeezed myself as far into the corner of her couch. I said, "My h wants to leave me and it is all my fault. I am a terrible wife. I dont blame him."

She looked at me and said, "Wow, you think you have that much power? You think that you could singlehandedly end a long time marriage all on your own?"

She was right. I didnt have that kind of power. There are two people in a marriage, S.

So, the important thing is to own only your own stuff. Leave him to his. In the beginning, we tend to take all the blame. Often its what we know to do.

Look at the things he has said carefully, and really determine which ones have merit. Work on changing those if you want to.

You have to make these changes for you, though, or he will see right through it. Trust me on that. You have to want to become the person you were meant to be.

I know that this all seems counterintuitive to what you think you should do. In your mind, letting him go means him going further away. But that isnt so.

Lovingly letting him go says that you hear him. You hear that he is unhappy and doesnt want to be married. You dont have to agree to it, but, you do have to hear it.

Because trying to hold on, causes him to want to run harder. Picture someone holding onto someones pants leg. They shake to get them off. The person holds on tighter and that causes them to want to shake harder and on and on it goes.

The way to honor your marriage is to allow him to walk this journey. That says that you love him so much you understand his need to do this. YOu want him to be happy and whole even if it means without you right now.

It means you put your marriage safely in a box for now. And then you begin your own journey.

I know you want to be with your daughter as much as you can. But remember you want to hear him. You want to give him space and time to work through what he needs to. He cant move forward, looking over his shoulder at you.

This isnt for the faint of heart. Its a marathon, not a sprint. So, its best to dig in and get to gettin.

I know its scary, the thought that you are going to detach. You want to hold on for fear he will go further away.

But this is what he needs to do right now.

This is an amazing opportunity for you to find you, to figure out who you want to be.

You will be ok, S. You just have to learn to believe in you.

[Old Dog]

What a great post from Shining.

And what a lot of friends you have Ss. Lovely lovely people.

I also think pulling back a bit would do you good. Add a bit of mystery and let you do something for yourself.

I'm liking the sound of NorCal too. Do they take in Old Dogs?

[Ss06]

uR and Old Dog and everyone, thank you so much for stopping by.

I was so low I can't imagine being lower. Seriously.

UR and Shining, I want to let him to to do his journey. I do. I just hold on because I'm pretty sure he's not coming back but the reality is, me holding onto him doesn't really keep him here, right? He's a grown man.

While I was at work folding my 90th pair of navy blue chinos I thought (negatively) about how this is a depiction of my fall from grace. My retail demise. About 4 minutes later I got a call from the place I submitted my resume to in Northern California. Nothing exciting, just them calling to say they'd received my docs. Good to know, I guess. Tiny steps.

Anyway, back to letting go...

I'm trying. Detachment isn't what I'm known for. Is anyone known for detachment? Anyway...

I'm trying to focus on self-care. Not self-indulgence, self-care. I'm trying to be forgiving of myself and accept that I have limits to my perfection (lol). Tonight D had mcdonalds for dinner and there isn't a bite of real food in the house except for two carrots. Gah. But you know what? It's ok. It's one night. I'll hit the store tomorrow. I don't have to be super mom through all this, too.

Self-acceptance. One step at a time.

Oh and I refrained from scoffing loudly when H texted me that he REALLY missed our daughter tonight. Of course I wanted to say, "you did this to yourself, idiot" but I obviously did not and never would (I usually scoff instead) and this time I didn't even scoff.

Now I need to really start evaluating whether a move to northern California would be 100% for D and I if I got this job or if it would e a secret attempt at sticking H's nose in his own chit. I really need to look at my motives here because it's too huge and too important for me and D not to.

Plus, he said he'd be fine if I moved up north with D. Seemed thrilled by the notion. Do I need to get that in writing? I don't think he'd accuse me of kidnapping but I also never thought he'd leave his family and make me the scape goat for all the worlds problems. We have nothing legal or official filed. What do you think?

[Jefe]

"I'm trying to focus on self-care. Not self-indulgence, self-care. I'm trying to be forgiving of myself and accept that I have limits to my perfection (lol). Tonight D had mcdonalds for dinner and there isn't a bite of real food in the house except for two carrots. Gah. But you know what? It's ok. It's one night. I'll hit the store tomorrow. I don't have to be super mom through all this, too."

I need to print this and read it over and over a few times. Man, I will beat myself up on this exact thing often.

[labug]

I like the part about looking at your motives. Your D needs her Dad in her life.

[Card29]

How did you get the impression that he would be thrilled with you moving to NoCal? He still seems deep in his fog and is very erratic with this thoughts and emotions. He has been hanging out with you and D a lot, says he misses D after one night. Yet he's okay with D moving several hours away?

Try your best to get to a peaceful, detached place and think through all of the implications with that move.

[Ss06]

Card, right?

Yes, I mentioned the job in NorCal, he encouraged me to apply. He even said something about how the universe is clearly encouraging me to move up there, too. I said, "you'd be ok with me taking D up there?" His response? "Absolutely! The schools up there are great, I think she'd love it up there".

Uh, ok.

He really is all over the place. This isn't all that new, he's a scattered guy typically but he would never see the merit in it or look inwardly to see there's no logic in all this. It's illogical for me to expect that there would be, too.

He sees himself as very grounded and logical. He claims to think everything through very thoroughly (I'll bet, he wanted a divorce a full year before informing me, now THAT is thinking it through). I often criticized him for not thinking things through very well or taking preventative/anticipatory action. Then, when things would crumble around his ankles, he'd complain that everyone is out to get him but never consider that maybe he didn't think it out well enough. Whatever...

I do need to think about this move more carefully.

Labug, of course you're right. She needs her daddy. The reality is, even prior to BD he was rarely around because he was escaping to work even when he didn't have work. When he does, all bets are off, he is genuinely not around and frequently sleeps at the studio. She sees him now on Wednesdays and every other weekend (and all the other times he's over these days) and that is A LOT more than he saw her prior to BD. Prior to BD he didn't even call to say goodnight to her, he'd go weeks without seeing her for more than 15 minutes before school and he'd be yelling or critical of her during that time. Of course, he now claims all of that was my fault.

He also claimed that he's 100 lbs overweight because of me... But has only gained weight since he moved out.

I'm tired of everything being my fault.

His cholesterol was high - my fault,

Overweight? My fault.

Poor relationship with D? My fault.

Not where he wants to be in his career? My fault.

PTSD? I did that.

Yeah, it's all my fault.

Anyway, I've applied for many other positions near here and only one in NorCal. We'll see how things go.

[LisaB]

Hi Ss, I agree that moving to Nor Cal would probably add complications between your D and her father. And I think it is interesting that you mentioned it to him and he seemed cool with it. Shows he is in the fog, doesn't it?

Just keep on with your good, strong attitude and see how this all plays out!

Hugs, Lisa

[SunnyB]

Yes, I mentioned the job in NorCal, he encouraged me to apply. He even said something about how the universe is clearly encouraging me to move up there, too. I said, "you'd be ok with me taking D up there?" His response? "Absolutely! The schools up there are great, I think she'd love it up there".

Mindboggling.

I know a couple that D, they have 5 kids together. She then had a 6th with a BF, who has long since gone. XH moved two hours away.She decided that she couldn't raise them all by herself, gave them to dad full-time and moved overseas.

I don't understand either of those parents, especially mom. I can't imagine. If I couldn't afford 6 kids, I'd let them live with dad, and take a job down the street from them making fries just to see them on a regular basis.

And SS, it's time for lunch here. I'm pretty sure that's your fault somehow.

[raliced]

Ss - Kids do need their dad. That being said - LA is a short, cheap Southwest flight away.

If this possibility comes to pass - you should give all factors long and thoughtful consideration - I'm just saying you could probably maintain every other weekend and some extended school holidays with her Dad.

I'm very happy to hear your job prospects are looking up!

[uRworthy]

I just hold on because I'm pretty sure he's not coming back but the reality is, me holding onto him doesn't really keep him here, right?

Yep. It doesnt keep him there. Not for the right reasons, anyway. Here's the thing, SS. When it first happens, we are in shock and hurt and scared. Our kneejerk reaction is to try to hold on as tight as we can. In our mind, that gives us some control. But in reality, it causes a different kind of reaction from the person we are holding on to. They see it as us not hearing what they want. They see it as more of the same.

So the holding on by us really winds up stopping the forward motion in them. And honestly, you dont want to stop that. You want them to look within. You want to begin working on you.

Because the truth is, the old marriage is gone. That doesnt mean there cant be a new, amazing marriage in the future.

The thing is that the sooner you let go, the sooner you get to the good parts. Yea, you read that right.

This is an incredible opportunity for you to become your best self. It is an opportunity for you to get good and strong and confident. So that if your spouse looks towards you in the future, you can decide what is best for you from a place of strength and not fear.

Trust me that whether you worry has no effect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can.

Detachment isn't what I'm known for. Is anyone known for detachment?

People misunderstand detachiment and letting go. It doesnt mean you no longer care. It means that you are no longer going to allow his words or actions to affect yours.

Each day you should try to be the person you want to be. Some days you will make it, some you wont, but, that should always be the goal.

I'm trying to be forgiving of myself...

Here's how I feel about forgiving oneself. Did I do things in my marriage to cause harm to it? Yes, I did. But whatever I did or didnt do wasnt with the INTENT to cause harm to it or my h. I did the best I could with the knowledge and tools I had at the time. Had I known better, I would have done better.

and accept that I have limits to my perfection.

Yea, you need to let that stuff go. Because in the grand scheme of things, most stuff just isnt that important. People are. Memories are. Feelings are. The rest....just doesnt matter.

SS, let him go. Leave him to figure his stuff out. You do yours.

So, tell me more about you. What are the things you think need changing? What are you doing about changing them?

[Ss06]

And SS, it's time for lunch here. I'm pretty sure that's your fault somehow.

This made me laugh. Thank you rppfl. I needed that.

[Ss06]

uRworthy, your post is so timely. Thank you.

I genuinely am trying to let him figure out his stuff. I'm leaving him alone to do it. This doesn't mean that I trust he WILL do it but I'm leaving him alone to do it. Baby steps, right?

Me? What do I need to change? Where does one begin when the list is so long?

I was a condescending shrew of a wife. I was resentful and frustrated with lots of unmet needs. I also wasn't very good at meeting his and we had a terrible SSM. I was critical and unempathetic, didn't love him the way he needs to be loved and wasn't very respectful.

What am I doing about changing these things, uRworthy?

I am getting to the root of my reactive communication problem. I am working through resentment by finding MY ROLE in it. I am owning my faults with NO excuses and NO "but he"s added to them. I am learning patience and acceptance of others as well as myself. I am learning to lean into the discomfort (this is so, so hard) and find peace somewhere in it. I am finding my values and why I struggle with upholding them when faced with people who disagree with me. I am learning that I have value outside of "what I bring to the table".

I am reading. A lot.

I am journaling. A lot.

I am asking the universe to guide me.

I am trying to hold my own hand through this, locate my big girl panties and with hope, never end up on the floor next to the vacuum again.

I am being the best mom I know how to be given the circumstances.

I am sitting with all the icky stuff inside me and observing it.

What else? Any insight on any of that? Any guidance?


On a very separate note:

I just had an incredible frustrating morning. D dawdles in the morning when she should be getting dressed so it takes forever (ok, not forever but about 30 minutes longer than it should given she wears a uniform to school). I got into it with her about that and then immediately felt guilty becuase I hated going to school after having been read the riot act by my mother as a kid.

I loathed it. I dreaded it. I was afraid to go home.

I don't want that for her and the guilt is eating me. Ugh. I apologized while we were on our way to school and asked for her help in coming up with ways to speed up her dressing process but I still feel terrible for how I initially handled the whole thing.

THEN, I came home to get ready for my IC appointment and somehow dropped my phone into the toilet. Yep. It was a clean bowl but I found myself reaching right in and dashing to a bag of rice. It worked enough for the phone to turn on and for me to back it up but yeah.

Then I cried through my IC session. My IC is great. A little clinical but very sensitive and encouraging. She is also stumped by H's "I miss D" and "sure! move to Norcal!" as well as his staunch closed heart.

I had an hour before my DB coaching session to get home, back up my phone (which seemed to work) and see if my phone would work enough for me to make that call. It turned on but I couldn't make a call, send or receive texts. I know no one who was home so I could use their phone. Ugh.

So I missed my DB coaching session.

I got in the car to head to the apple store and it took me an HOUR to go 4 exits because there was a fatality accident. I thought my day was going poorly... turns out someone else's was worse.

Got to the Apple store and after about 45 minutes of waiting (I didn't have an appointment) I now have a new phone but after restoring it on my desktop it is showing "recent texts" from August 2013. Um. That's not recent and I've backed up monthly since then. Great. Just lovely.

Luckily I'm alive, D is well and I have you folks. Phones don't matter that much in the scheme of things and I am not dead on the side of the freeway.

Gratitude.

[Jefe]

"I was a condescending shrew of a wife. I was resentful and frustrated with lots of unmet needs. I also wasn't very good at meeting his and we had a terrible SSM. I was critical and unempathetic, didn't love him the way he needs to be loved and wasn't very respectful.

^^ This is powerful. It gives me much respect for you. Stick with it.

And yes, we're all glad you're not dead on the side of the highway.

[uRworthy]

Yea, you cant control whether he does the work. All you can do it do yours.

Ok, so, you listed your stuff. When I went through mine, I tried to remember that looking back on all of it, it is very clear. But when you are in the thick of it, trying to live your life it isnt clear. If it was, you would have done something different.

As I said, I did the best I could with what I knew at the time. Not an excuse, but, understanding that I wasnt intentionally doing the things I did made a difference to me. We sometimes let the feelings of guilt stop us from doing all we need to do.

So, you are doing some good stuff. I think you need to dig in deep here. What was your childhood like? We often do what we know. It becomes our comfort zone.

Were you always the way you say you were in your marriage?
If not, when and why did it change?

While you do not want to use your h's actions as an excuse for your behavior, they play a big part in how you acted and reacted.

Ok, so about your daughter. What can you put into place to stop you from reacting in a way that you dont want to? Can you leave the room for a minute? Snap a rubberband on your wrist. Sing a song or say a prayer in your head. Count to 20.

Learn to recognize that you are starting to get heated and redirect.

I think you did great in speaking with your daughter. As I said, guilt often stops us from doing what we need to and you have to push through it.

It was a kind of crappy day. But yea, perspective, right?

[Maybell]

I used timers and reward charts to teach my kids to move in the mornings. And I built dawdle time into the timer & schedule. That helped all of us.

[Jefe]

Timers, what an excellent idea. Schedules we have.

[Ss06]

So, you are doing some good stuff. I think you need to dig in deep here. What was your childhood like? We often do what we know. It becomes our comfort zone.

Oh this is a big question, Urworthy. I've mentioned it before in earlier posts but suffice it to say, my childhood is a petri dish of dysfunction.

My mother abused the crap out of the three of us. My swim coach saw bruises on my neck in high school and reported my mom to DCS. Four months later she threatened to kill me and I believed her. DCS "detained" me from the home but left my little brother (my older brother was 18 and therefore not part of the case) at home. I lived in foster care for 8 months, a group home for a year (where there wasn't enough food and what food there was had bugs in it) and then lived with my swim coaches for my senior year. At the end of my junior year my little brother told me (we had to meet in secret to talk because my mom wouldn't allow him to communicate with me) they were moving back to Georgia and left me in CA. Alone.

My father was charged with neglect at the same time my mother was charged with abuse.

My mom has borderline personality disorder (think Mommy Dearest times 10 - no exaggeration), is a raging narcissist, is a recovering alcoholic and compulsive liar. It has also been said by a couple therapists that she suffers from paranoia and multiple personality disorder.

In the end it doesn't matter because she refused medication which is why the courts wouldn't allow me to move back home.

We were in "family reunification therapy" as required by the court. She befriended the therapist and they hung out and went to the movies on the weekends. That's just how she is. Incredibly brilliant (she is a chemistry professor), hilarious, interesting and fun to be around... when she's not beating her children for not cleaning the refrigerator properly at age 6.

Anyway, yes, I've been in extensive therapy for years for all that. It's no longer painful but it was my foundation.

I am generally pretty good at stopping myself when I start sounding like my mom, even a little bit. I'll rephrase or change my tone and then later address the internal feelings of angst, frustration, anxiety, etc.

Strangely, while I have never laid a hand on my D and never will because of my childhood and breaking the chain of abuse and all that...

... I fear I instead verbally abused my husband and look where that has landed me.

[claire7]

There are some hugely important takeaways for you. Clear evidence of moving in the right direction. Can you see it and name it?!

[Ss06]

No claire. i can't. Care to point it (them?) out?

[Jefe]

Hmm, that entire post, exactly as written, would be an excellent thing to share with H, when the time is right.

I mean, I'm sure he knows all of this, but the way you just wrote it, I think he needs to hear. Including the last sentence as written.

[Ss06]

Hmm, that entire post, exactly as written, would be an excellent thing to share with H, when the time is right.

I mean, I'm sure he knows all of this, but the way you just wrote it, I think he needs to hear. Including the last sentence as written.

Jefe, I have admitted multiple times over my faults to him. I have apologized. I have done it and more. He's not ready to hear it. He knows he was treated badly. He doesn't need me to remind him. He carries it around with him daily.

I'm not trying to suggest he put it down and forget about it. Not at all. In fact, it's clear he needs to carry it around for a while. I wasn't good to him. At all.

I hope there comes a time where what he's carrying around isn't all he remembers about our marriage. There were GREAT times and the potential for even more GREAT times is there, I believe.

He's not there. The view finder through which he views things has a lot of vaseline on it. A LOT!

[Jefe]

I understand. I haven't followed your sitch long enough to know some of the older history.

I know that would speak volumes to me.

Keep at it. Your brutal honesty with yourself is invaluable.

[uRworthy]

SS, I am so sorry that you had to endure that. No child should have to. I am an adult child of an abusive alcoholic mother, but, I did not suffer physical abuse. It breaks my heart to read that you did.

So, as I said, we do what we know. Sometimes in different ways.

I believe, with everything I have, that this was a journey I was meant to go on. I hope you do, too.

You do have to eventually learn to forgive yourself in order to heal because holding onto the guilt weighs you down and stops you from moving forward.

You cannot undo the past and the real disservice would be if you didnt learn from it.

You are right, your h is not ready to hear any of it, mainly because it makes it about you and right now he needs it to be about him.

You are so brave, S. It takes real courage to be so vulnerable, to be willing to look within and face the demons.

This journey is a difficult one, but, man, it is so worth it.

[Ss06]

I am taking your word on the "so worth it part". It's hard to believe that right now but people who have been through it do say that so, let's hope!

[Maybell]

Ss, if you could compare my posts now to the ones I wrote in June/July, you would not believe I'm the same person. I don't know if my H will wake up, but I sure have, and it is both terrifying and 100% worth it.

Hugs, lady.

[uRworthy]

S, you would probably not be looking within had it not been for this. These are demons you need to slay in order to be your best self.

I promise you, that if you really do the work, you will be forever changed. I am excited for you.

[claire7]

No claire. i can't. Care to point it (them?) out?

Ss,

It takes incredible inner strength and self-awareness to come through what you have been through as a child, and what you are going through now, and remain poised, and dignified, and able to look inward honestly and purposefully.

In short, I think you are amazing.

To me, the first steps towards change are a) recognizing that change needs to happen; b) recognizing WHAT changes need to happen, specifically; c) noticing when we act in the ways that we want to change, and then d) (slowly) actually making those changes more and more consistently so that the changed behavior becomes habit.

You are at the very least up to point C. To me, that's HUGE. Think about how many people can't even acknowledge they need to change!

Don't be so focused on the fact that you didn't get a touchdown yet. You've covered a lot of yards. Forward movement is SUCCESS.

You recognized that you overreacted with your D, and apologized, and tried to get her involved in the process. Win!
You recognized that, even with all this crap going on, you have a lot to be thankful for. Win!

Seriously, you're amazing. Thanks for being here to inspire me.

[Card29]

Cheering for you tonight, Ss! It absolutely will be worth it

[Ss06]

Maybell, that's encouraging, thank you. I admire your strength on your journey. It means a lot to me that you impart your wisdom on me.

You too, uRworthy, it means the world to me that you stop by and take an interest in helping me see this all for what it is. Man it's hard. Alarmingly hard. But if you're excited for me, I can't help but be a little, too.

Claire, I have tears! Good tears. What kind and supportive things to say. I used to just pooh pooh compliments like yours but if I honor what I've been through I can say, holy chit it was hard doing what I had to do at 16 years old. And it's hard doing similar work now.

If I'm honest with myself, I've had A and some of B done for years. Not sure that's a win because after that I had no idea HOW to make meaningful changes that could turn my marriage around. Instead I stood there stumped and resentful expecting him to do his share. What a missed opportunity. But, yes, I would say I'm at C.

Huh, that IS kinda huge. Yeah. Definitely nothing to overlook. Thanks for pointing that out, Claire. Wow. That's big. I'll take that realization, thank you.

Huh. That feels good. Still a long way to go of course... A lifetime no less but it's good to have people who can point out your strengths because I'll tell ya, I've been staring at my weaknesses for a little while now under a 100,000x power microscope and it's refreshing to see some strengths too.

Thank you, Claire, so much!

[Ss06]

Cheering for you tonight, Ss! It absolutely will be worth it

Thank you, card! Your support is awesome and I have been a bad friend and not reciprocated to any of you. I feel like I'm drowning myself so encouraging others to swim parallel to the rip tide whilst I can't get past the ankle slippers seems silly. Please know I'm cheering for you, too.

This LBS stuff is for the birds.

[claire7]

(((Ss)))

[labug]

"I was a condescending shrew of a wife. I was resentful and frustrated with lots of unmet needs. I also wasn't very good at meeting his and we had a terrible SSM. I was critical and unempathetic, didn't love him the way he needs to be loved and wasn't very respectful.

Hey, we're sisters! Twins, maybe.

And our childhoods have some similarities. I felt I was so far in a hole I couldn't see daylight and then there was H, kicking dirt down on me.

But as I've said before, I wouldn't take nuthin' for my journey now. My life is almost unrecognizable to 4 years ago. You're getting there, it's just sometimes a crappy trip to the other side.

Open yourself up to the it as much as you can. Say yes to the life you have now, it may not be what you would have chosen but it's the one you have. It can be beautiful and when we decide to be in control of just us and our happiness NO ONE can take that from us.

I think I understand how scary it is to let go...that's dangerous territory for us because something bad, painful even might happen if we don't control for everything.

But look at where you are, and how much you've changed. I've seen the changes. Look at the things that have happened and you're still standing. You're a survivor. You can get to the other side.

Re his comment about NoCal...remember, believe only half. Who knows why he said that but you don't have to do anything based on what he says. That's the beauty of letting go and living your life. I have confidence you'll do what's best for D.

((( )))

[Card29]

Cheering for you tonight, Ss! It absolutely will be worth it

Thank you, card! Your support is awesome and I have been a bad friend and not reciprocated to any of you. I feel like I'm drowning myself so encouraging others to swim parallel to the rip tide whilst I can't get past the ankle slippers seems silly. Please know I'm cheering for you, too.

This LBS stuff is for the birds.

Ss the thought never crossed my mind! I know exactly what you're going through. There are days/weeks that I feel like I shouldn't even try to offer advice or support. Take care of yourself. We all know what a great friend you are

[Jefe]

I'm praying and cheering for everyone here that I interact with. We all need the support. Sometimes helping others here is a blessing for me.

Have a good day!

[Ss06]

Open yourself up to the it as much as you can. Say yes to the life you have now, it may not be what you would have chosen but it's the one you have. It can be beautiful and when we decide to be in control of just us and our happiness NO ONE can take that from us.

Does a opening up to it mean acceptance? I am really trying but it is a lot to ask to succumb to the life someone else has chosen for you, you know? Add to that the impact on D that H seems to ignore because he doesn't want to face that this could actually be hard on her (lest he feel guilty) and acceptance seems silly and almost cruel. I realize that fighting it is futile... Is there no middle ground?

I mean, my life right now consists of a part time, hopefully temporary job, possible temporary living arrangements, awkward holidays... How does one open up to that? How do I create some permanence, consistency, predictability for D and I?

I think that's why this NorCal job is so tempting. Change big enough to start over. Granted, I'm seeing some escapism on my part in the decision but I'm looking at that. It may not be the best idea but I haven't even been granted an interview yet so it's not like I'm moving next week.

And labug, I am a survivor but I am brought to my knees when I think about D. I can't make this stop for her, protect her from it. Part of me despises H for thinking she's "fine" and will continue to be "fine". He doesn't want to face his decision as being hard on anyone but himself and I never knew he could be that kind of man. It makes me cringe to think I picked someone who could do this to her and convince himself that it's not that big of a deal. I just can't reconcile that.

I want to get to a place where I'm ok with all of this unpredictability, hurt, struggle but I'm definitely not there yet. I can't really imagine ever getting there but you've done it so I have hope. I'll keep doing the work.

And, if I'm making all these changes and YOU all can see that, why is H so closed off and blind to my changes?

[Card29]

Ss, I'm sure labug will respond to your questions and concerns. I'd like to offer you thoughts as a fellow struggler. EDIT: Sorry for the novel. I've had this open in the background all afternoon at work today and kept adding things as I thought of them. I tried to stay within my own experience so far.

Does a opening up to it mean acceptance?

Depends on what you're accepting. Accept reality, but nothing more. Your H left, has blamed your for all of his and your problems, your D is hurting right now, you are tremendously underemployed at the moment. But it doesn't mean you should accept the fears you have for you and your D's future.

I am really trying but it is a lot to ask to succumb to the life someone else has chosen for you, you know?

YES, that is a huge challenge. I struggle with this very often, and it is still one of the biggest challenges that faces me everyday. I always wanted to be a good H and had no idea my W was unhappy. It feels unjust to learn about her struggles after it was too late to do anything about my contribution to it. But the days I dwell on those thoughts are my worst days, and wishing for a different past does nothing for me. It is not the "good" kind of pain. It feels like self-torture to me.

Add to that the impact on D that H seems to ignore because he doesn't want to face that this could actually be hard on her (lest he feel guilty) and acceptance seems silly and almost cruel. I realize that fighting it is futile... Is there no middle ground?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a middle ground, but this is not strictly a discrete choice between two or three options (futile resistance, fearful flight or hopeless succumbence). You know that fighting and resisting your H's decisions is not the way to go. I'm not suggesting that you moving to NorCal is simply "flight"...that might be the best option for your life going forward! More on that below, though. But there is much more to embracing reality than just "giving in". Right now reality is terrible for us (and especially you at the moment...I could be back there with you any day or moment ), but it won't stay that way forever. You and D7 have a beautiful life ahead of you, with or without your M to WAH. I know you've heard these words here many times, and I don't expect you to be suddenly filled with joy at reading them one more time. Just know that those of us that write things like this to you truly believe you will feel this way someday, too, especially if you stick with DBing.

I mean, my life right now consists of a part time, hopefully temporary job, possible temporary living arrangements, awkward holidays... How does one open up to that? How do I create some permanence, consistency, predictability for D and I?

I, too am somewhat dreading the holidays, my first with split custody of D2. I am waiting around for my house to sell so that I can move into my mom's basement for a while. I don't have any sage advice for you here. I just want you to know I'm walking that part of the struggle with you. I know we're just anonymous people on a message board, but I really do think about Ss06, Maybell, Ahoy and others throughout my day. I will say this...what has kept me from falling into depression with these things IS accepting reality and trying to find things in these situations that do make me happy, even the tiniest things. Selling my house? I never liked having the laundry 2 floors away from the bedrooms. Moving in with my mom? I will be moving into the guest suite that has an awesome, cozy wood-burning stove/fireplace. And I know that this is just a phase. With or without WAW, someday I will find a place of my own that I love again. Somedays it is just too much for the "little sweet things" to outweigh the dread. But keep searching for them and you might find a day or two when you can see a light. Is there anything at all about your BR job that makes you happy? It doesn't have to be life-fulfilling happiness because this is not a lifetime job. Same thing with the holidays. I know what will su*k about them. What is something you could look forward to?

I think that's why this NorCal job is so tempting. Change big enough to start over. Granted, I'm seeing some escapism on my part in the decision but I'm looking at that. It may not be the best idea but I haven't even been granted an interview yet so it's not like I'm moving next week.

I know you will not make a hasty decision if it comes to that. Also, not a single person on this forum can tell you if a move to NorCal is the best decision for your and D7. When you get to a detached place, you will be able to make that decision. You know the advice we've given you so far, though (grass is not always greener, but also there are ways to make that work if it is best for you and your family). Also, I'm sure you didn't mean it literally, but nothing you do will be a clean "restart". But like labug and other survivors/vets have said, they wouldn't want to start over if they could. I believe you and I (and everyone else in the midst of this here) will say the same thing in the future. (Right now I still sometimes lean towards the "I wish I could go back in time WITH my new knowledge" fantasy silly me).

And labug, I am a survivor but I am brought to my knees when I think about D. I can't make this stop for her, protect her from it. Part of me despises H for thinking she's "fine" and will continue to be "fine". He doesn't want to face his decision as being hard on anyone but himself and I never knew he could be that kind of man. It makes me cringe to think I picked someone who could do this to her and convince himself that it's not that big of a deal. I just can't reconcile that.

You're right, you can't make it stop for her, and there's only so much from which you can protect her. It is naïve (foggy?) for him to believe that she is fine. She is in great pain. She can heal and grow, too, though. He could also simply be trying to convince himself of the lie to make his decision easier to make (speaking in absolute negatives), like every other WAS here does. I was reading through the piecing board the other day for some inspiration and read from some ex-LBS whose WAW had came back and admitted that she willfully ignored or forgot about memories or thoughts that made it more difficult for her to leave. They all do it. If he let himself believe that he was harming his D7, he would cause himself a self-inflicted wound. His fog is allowing him to avoid this. So don't believe him, don't even believe that he believes it.

And know this: You DIDN'T pick that kind of man. None of us would have picked our WAS's as they are now. They are not the same person right now. They will never be the same old person again. But who knows what kind of person they will be in the future. If he truly loves his D, when he comes out of his fog, whether he recommits to the M or not, I would hope there is a great chance that he recommits to D7. Will that happen? Who knows at this point, so don't waste too much energy wondering about what he will do. You have no control over what path he decides to walk. D7's long term happiness and growth doesn't totally depend on him, either.

I want to get to a place where I'm ok with all of this unpredictability, hurt, struggle but I'm definitely not there yet. I can't really imagine ever getting there but you've done it so I have hope. I'll keep doing the work.

You can't be expected to get there on any kind of timeline. It is your journey. Just keep walking. We're all walking with you, whether we're being wheeled in on a stretcher (sometimes me), limping through rehab (sometimes me, as well) or striding on the other side of our life (labug, sandi, Bond, Wonka, others).

And, if I'm making all these changes and YOU all can see that, why is H so closed off and blind to my changes?

Because seeing those changes makes his decision to leave more difficult and "on him". Of course the point of your changes is not to make him feel guilty. But if you were doing nothing to change yourself and suggest a different possibility for your M, if you were begging and pleading like many LBS's, or if you were reacting angrily and insanely like many other LBS's, you would have already made the decision for him. You might feel like you are spiraling out of control, but he is much further from reality than you are at the moment.

[LisaB]

[quote]And, if I'm making all these changes and YOU all can see that, why is H so closed off and blind to my changes?

This might not be what you want to hear Ss, but we can see and appreciate your changes but didn't live through the bad parts of your marriage. As much as his complaints of PTSD sound silly to me, you have admitted your relationship wasn't so great a lot of the time and that you weren't so nice. And yet you hope (as many of us do) that realizing the error of your ways and saying you are sorry and have changed will make him forget or forgive the bad stuff.

That's not usually how it works, as you well know, having been through your own share of bad stuff. You need to keep up the changes going for a lonnnnnnggg time. And still he may never forgive or forget, who knows.

Give him time. Focus on YOU, not on HIM.

And I'd just like to add, I think you should look at the positives in your situation. Many of us would love to have our WAS coming around all the time, wanting to spend family time. Many of us would KILL to not have the horror of OW/OM and the pain and nightmares that causes. And lastly, many of us thought our marriages were going really well until BD and would happily focus on changing things we did wrong if we could only figure out what those things are...

Your situation is hard, I know, but it could be a lot worse! Just a little perspective.

Hugs, Lisa

[Ss06]

Lisa, you're right. My situation is certainly not an example of the worst or hardest or most extreme. And there are many things in my situation that seem positive, yes.

However, there may not be an OW as of right now, H has said he "would love nothing more than to have a romantic experience right now" . It is by no means the same as the actual horror you're speaking of, but there is no guarantee it won't become an issue. He did go to Santa Barbara three weeks ago with TWO women and paid for everything. He has been finding hookers on craigslist since 2009 (and that's what I was able to find). He may not have an OW right now but it's not for lack of trying.

And yes, I wasn't so nice. I can't argue that fact. My instinct is to say "but he acts like a child and I needed a partner who was an adult so anyone would become not so nice after a while" but that doesn't get me anywhere. I have no defense for my actions.

Card, I appreciate the mini-book you wrote. I'm impressed with your wisdom so early in your situation. I was there at one point and I lost it. Hold onto your direction and don't let anything sway you.

[CaliGuy]

Ss,


To me, the first steps towards change are a) recognizing that change needs to happen; b) recognizing WHAT changes need to happen, specifically; c) noticing when we act in the ways that we want to change, and then d) (slowly) actually making those changes more and more consistently so that the changed behavior becomes habit.

Wise Words ... my first MC therapist..I felt she was amazing .. W hated her ... OM was still around and I had no idea .. go figure but I digress. Anyways she said this excact same thing to my wife, but I realized I too could grow and become better from such wisdom. I went home that night and made a short list of things I wanted to change. It really helps ... with the big ones and when you start catching yourself ... HUGE step let me tell ya.

Rooting for you Ss

[uRworthy]

Great post, Card.

SS, I know it doesnt seem like it, but, you are still early into this.

I came kicking and screaming into DBing. Trust me on that. I would say to the vets then, "Are you people crazy? You want me to let him go? How is that going to serve me?"

Until I got it. Here's what I learned. The sooner you come to the acceptance of what is, the sooner you get unstuck. You dont have to like it, but, you do have to accept it.

I learned that no one can make us happy and it must come from within. When you learn that, the real healing begins. We can’t really love someone else, until we love ourselves.

When I began this, I made a roadmap. I started to think about some questions I wanted to ask myself. What did I want to see when I looked back? Who did I want to see? What did I want to show my son?

I knew I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I did everything possible to save my marriage. I wanted to be able to say I acted with dignity, courage, strength and grace. I wanted to see that I had grown and changed. I didn’t want to fail at this opportunity of showing my son how to get through life’s tough parts. I wanted to know that I did nothing to interfere or cause harm to my son's relationship with his father.

So, with this roadmap, I figured out how to move forward and detach. I learned to believe in me. I knew that I trusted in Him. I knew because of that, I would be ok.

I learned that the hardest part in all this is in letting go. But, that is the greatest act of love. It doesn’t mean you are giving up. It doesn’t mean you do not care. It is saying that you hear your spouse; you honor their feelings, and cherish them enough to lovingly allow them to walk their journey.

With that mindset, you begin to detach in that their actions and words do not affect your actions and words. You are allowing them to live their life, and figure themselves out and you are allowing yourself to do the same.

When it is time, the hope is that no matter what, you come to a place of forgiveness. That is so important. You do not want to carry that anger and bitterness around with you forever. It saps your energy. It weighs you down. Forgiveness is a way to honor your relationship, your marriage. It is an acceptance of what is and the letting go of expecting something different.

SS, I know how devastating this is. I know that you feel lost and powerless. Please know you will not always feel that way. You will get through this. You will be ok. You will come out the other side stronger and wiser.

Your h is lost right now. He is trying to figure out what is wrong. He cannot deal with knowing that his D will be hurt.

I know that as parents, we want to shield our children from everything we can. Here's the truth of this. If you are ok, your d will be ok. I am not saying it isnt going to be hard. I am saying that you are her touchstone. She will be looking to you to determine how she feels. Show her someone strong and loving.

As far as the changes, they have to be for you S. If they arent, then they arent real. They have to be consistent and long term. He isnt ready to see any of that yet. He has a long road ahead.
Leave him to it.

Get on your path. Feel what you feel than let it wash over you. You cannot change the past. You cannot force him to see things. That only person you have control over right now...is you.

Be the person you want to be today...for you and your daughter.

You have to let go of the life you imagined and begin to see the life you can create. It may look different, but different isnt bad. You can make it anything you choose. How powerful is that?

[Ss06]

Caliguy, I'm starting my list. All this nebulous talk of growth and change... I need to see what it is I'm working towards. What do I want to change about myself? For me, not stuff to change for H. That's a really tough part. I know the things I need to change for us to have a good marriage...

... Looking at what I need to change for me? That's harder to pinpoint.

[claire7]

Try thinking of it not in terms of just your marriage.. what about relationships with others? Your D? Friends? Colleagues? What changes can you practice now so that your next romantic relationship (whomever it is with) will be better.

Because at the end of the day, whoever you are with next (your H or someone new) will still have some sh!t. We all do. No one is perfect.

That's the faulty thinking our WAH have... they think it's because we are just not a good match. Instead of a lack of skills (which can be learned and improved). And that's why people get divorced multiple times.

[Ss06]

Great post, Card.

SS, I know it doesnt seem like it, but, you are still early into this.

i know. I hate that fact but it's true.

I came kicking and screaming into DBing. Trust me on that. I would say to the vets then, "Are you people crazy? You want me to let him go? How is that going to serve me?"

Until I got it. Here's what I learned. The sooner you come to the acceptance of what is, the sooner you get unstuck. You dont have to like it, but, you do have to accept it.

I get this, too. Unstuck would be good. I can sort of hear the desticking sound like the pulling up of duct tape from a table... I'm hoping that's the sound of my imminent unstuckness.

I learned that no one can make us happy and it must come from within. When you learn that, the real healing begins. We can’t really love someone else, until we love ourselves.

this I agree with this of course but it implies I don't already love myself. Maybe I don't, probably I don't but I understand this takes time. How does one begin to realize their own happiness? Where do I begin here?

When I began this, I made a roadmap. I started to think about some questions I wanted to ask myself. What did I want to see when I looked back? Who did I want to see? What did I want to show my son?

I knew I wanted to be able to look myself in the mirror and know that I did everything possible to save my marriage. I wanted to be able to say I acted with dignity, courage, strength and grace. I wanted to see that I had grown and changed. I didn’t want to fail at this opportunity of showing my son how to get through life’s tough parts. I wanted to know that I did nothing to interfere or cause harm to my son's relationship with his father.

So, with this roadmap, I figured out how to move forward and detach. I learned to believe in me. I knew that I trusted in Him. I knew because of that, I would be ok.

I learned that the hardest part in all this is in letting go. But, that is the greatest act of love. It doesn’t mean you are giving up. It doesn’t mean you do not care. It is saying that you hear your spouse; you honor their feelings, and cherish them enough to lovingly allow them to walk their journey.

I'm in the early stages of this: the "I want to let him walk his journey. I want to get out and stay out of the way". I keep backsliding and I think it's because I'm so reactionary to my emotions. I'm adding this to my list of things to work on. I assume that because my heart is breaking he should stop doing what he's doing. In reality it doesn't work that way, does it. Big girl panty moment. My emotions rule my actions and it has been an excuse for bad behavior "but it "felt" justified. I am in control of my emotions... Or at least I need to get there.

With that mindset, you begin to detach in that their actions and words do not affect your actions and words. You are allowing them to live their life, and figure themselves out and you are allowing yourself to do the same.

I can't wait to get to a place where his actions and words aren't constantly making me wonder "does that mean he still wants a divorce? Does that mean he's considering coming home? I can't even believe it's a possibility but I have hope"

When it is time, the hope is that no matter what, you come to a place of forgiveness. That is so important. You do not want to carry that anger and bitterness around with you forever. It saps your energy. It weighs you down. Forgiveness is a way to honor your relationship, your marriage. It is an acceptance of what is and the letting go of expecting something different.

SS, I know how devastating this is. I know that you feel lost and powerless. Please know you will not always feel that way. You will get through this. You will be ok. You will come out the other side stronger and wiser.

I will. I believe you. It's mostly based on faith rather than deep rooted belief but sometimes that's all we need to take the first steps, right?

Your h is lost right now. He is trying to figure out what is wrong. He cannot deal with knowing that his D will be hurt.

I know that as parents, we want to shield our children from everything we can. Here's the truth of this. If you are ok, your d will be ok. I am not saying it isnt going to be hard. I am saying that you are her touchstone. She will be looking to you to determine how she feels. Show her someone strong and loving.

I am. I'm trying. I am strong and I am loving. I am proud of what she is seeing in me and our really good co parenting. I am really lucky that H has decided to step up big time in this department. Just yesterday and had gotten in trouble at school and was sent to the office. I didn't handle it well. When H was talking to her last night before bed he handled it SO well. Calm, collected, reasonable, understanding... Just really great... AND I TOLD HIM. I wanted him to know that I don't see myself perfectly and him terribly. I told him he handled it much better than I did and that I would reframe my outlook on the situation. He seemed surprised that I complimented his parenting but he deserved to hear that. And so did I.

As far as the changes, they have to be for you S. If they arent, then they arent real. They have to be consistent and long term. He isnt ready to see any of that yet. He has a long road ahead.

ok, this is where I am really stuck. The changes I want to make would Profoundly change me and my relationships in general. I'm not making them FOR H per se but the changes he has always said he needed are on the list, just for ME. Can you give me an example of a change you made for you and not for H? I know it sounds fundamental but it'll help me.
Leave him to it.

Get on your path. Feel what you feel than let it wash over you. You cannot change the past. You cannot force him to see things. That only person you have control over right now...is you.

I need to tattoo this to my face. Feel free to copy and paste this into every single post you make to me from now on. I need to see this constantly.

Be the person you want to be today...for you and your daughter.

You have to let go of the life you imagined and begin to see the life you can create. It may look different, but different isnt bad. You can make it anything you choose. How powerful is that?

I love this but I wrestle with not changing the physical aspects of the life I want to create. Like moving to NorCal. It's uncomfortable to be in the house where all this ickyness has occurred, in this town, with his family... Again, escaping perhaps, I know, but the idea of creating a life amidst the pain sounds... Well, painful and it's hard to dive head first into that.

[Ss06]

Try thinking of it not in terms of just your marriage.. what about relationships with others? Your D? Friends? Colleagues? What changes can you practice now so that your next romantic relationship (whomever it is with) will be better.

Because at the end of the day, whoever you are with next (your H or someone new) will still have some sh!t. We all do. No one is perfect.

That's the faulty thinking our WAH have... they think it's because we are just not a good match. Instead of a lack of skills (which can be learned and improved). And that's why people get divorced multiple times.

This is helpful and a good mindset. I feel like my regression is so huge. I knew all this stuff two months ago, what happened to me? I forgot all the things that were holding me up and helping me every day and need to be reminded now. It's frustrating for sure...

But I'm practicing self-acceptance so it is just what it is, right?

In other news, I made D's staff for her Halloween costume. She is Maleficent and her staff lights up and glows. Im pretty impressed with myself. I'm not super crafty but I rocked this thing! Just have to wait for the air-dry clay to dry and I can paint it black! I think she's going to love it!!

[Card29]

Try thinking of it not in terms of just your marriage.. what about relationships with others? Your D? Friends? Colleagues? What changes can you practice now so that your next romantic relationship (whomever it is with) will be better.

Yes. For a LBS, this is essential as we don't have our SO with us on a regular basis (and accepting to our efforts) to practice. But I believe almost all skills that apply to our M's and intimate R's can be applied to normal social and professional environments on a smaller, although still significant, level. So for all LBS's, make your list and start finding ways everyday to practice.

[Ss06]

Try thinking of it not in terms of just your marriage.. what about relationships with others? Your D? Friends? Colleagues? What changes can you practice now so that your next romantic relationship (whomever it is with) will be better.

Yes. For a LBS, this is essential as we don't have our SO with us on a regular basis (and accepting to our efforts) to practice. But I believe almost all skills that apply to our M's and intimate R's can be applied to normal social and professional environments on a smaller, although still significant, level. So for all LBS's, make your list and start finding ways everyday to practice.

That's exactly what I'm doing, card. I started my list. And I'm thinking if ways to put it all into practice every day. Have you started your list??

[Maybell]

Ss, I wanted to say something profound but it flew out of my head. So I'm going to stew on it and will be profound tomorrow. Until then, sleep well and be well. This funk is the pits but it's a really important stage of the journey. Be proud of yourself for getting to it so promptly. That will matter to you a year from now.

Hugs!!!!

[Ss06]

Oh maybell, I can empathize. All things round and amazing seem to fly out of my head before I get a chance to formulate my point which is why many of my posts are disjointed and rambling. I'm calling it my " style". When in doubt, call it a "style".

Can't wait to hear your profound something.


On a separate note (because I'm full of separate notes these days), I did something very out of the ordinary for me tonight. Stepping out if my comfort zone. I ordered take out sushi for ONE, poured myself a glass of wine, and I'm about to watch a movie via netflix. I'm not doing laundry, emptying the dishwasher, dusting, holiday shopping online or cleaning out my fridge. I may put a facial mask on later but my point is this is unusual. I'm actually eating dinner (winning!), enjoying some local-ish Chardonnay and settling down to watch Katniss rebell. I'm not going to say to my self "you should have exercised today" or "this house is a wreck". Nope. I'm enjoying some sushi and wine and a movie.

How very different for me.

[Maybell]

Right on lady! Have fun.

[uRworthy]

I can only speak for me. I didnt love myself. Not really. When this began, I realized a great many things about me. Some good, some not good. I didnt see myself as lovable because two of the most important relationships in life...my mother and my h, didnt value me and didnt think I was enough.

I know now that I am the only one that gets to define my worth. But I allowed them to do that. When I looked at who I was, it wasnt the person I wanted to be.

I think expecting someone to make us happy is a terrible burden to put on someone. Imagine being responsible for someone else's happiness.

So I had to learn to be good within myself. I had to learn that I was worthy and enough. I had to choose joy in my life. Everyday. In the people in it. In the things around me. It was my choice.

A partner shouldnt determine your happiness. They should add to a life you find joy in. For me, finding that including being really good with who I was. Happiness and joy really are choices we can make.

Backslides are going to happen, S. Its what you do with them that matters. Letting go is one of the hardest things in all of this. It is counterintuitive to what you think you should be doing.

And no, it doesnt work that way...where he should stop what he is doing because you are hurting. The truth is that he is hurting, too. It may not seem that way, but, he is. No one's happiness is more important than another's.

You will get to the place of detachment when you get there. We all do this in our own time and in our own way.

It helped me to remember that having those thoughts about what his actions meant wasnt serving me well because I couldnt possibly know. So, why continue to watch them?

Faith matters. Sometimes we have to take the first step even when we cant see the whole staircase.

Good on you for how you handled that with your daughter. You are fortunate that he has stepped up. You did the right thing in telling him what you did..

You asked about my changes. There were plenty of them. I took what my h said and looked at them. I determined which ones had merit and threw the rest away. I looked at who I wanted to be. While I looked at what he said, I didnt make the changes because he said them. I made them because I could see that I wanted to change those things about me.

If you are looking and wondering why he doesnt see the changes, then they arent for you. I got to a point where it didnt matter to me if he saw or not. What mattered is that I was good with them.

I can understand not wanting to be in the house. Why not make changes to it? Make it more you. Make new good memories in it with your daughter.

I can see where the move would mean a fresh start, but, you still have to take you with you, ya know? Im not saying it wouldnt be good for you. I dont know that. Only you do. I am just saying that it doesnt matter where you are, you still have to do the work or it comes with you.

[Card29]

That's exactly what I'm doing, card. I started my list. And I'm thinking if ways to put it all into practice every day. Have you started your list??

Yes but it evolves as I think of things or make progress (which is honestly limited so far). I downloaded a journal app a few weeks ago and have been using it for jotting down random thoughts, saving key DB posts, whatever. Among the entries from September is my 180 list. It is definitely a living list as I add or change things every week or so.

On top of my "180 topics", I also use this. I'm not exactly sure where I found it - a recent DB thread, a classic thread shared with me or someone else, or somewhere else on the internet. It is a 180 inspiration list. In my journal I highlighted the words I want to focus on in green, the negative words I need to practice avoiding in red, and things I want to pay special attention to for my W (now or in the future) highlighted in blue. So my inspiration looks like this:

1) mean/nice
2) disrespectful / considerate
3) nagging/reassuring ,comforting
4) needy/ undemanding
5) criticize / praise
6) fake/ honest, genuine
7) attack/ retreated,support, console
8) boring/ alluring, mysterious ,fabulous, energizing
9) hateful/loving, affectionate , kind
10) reject/defend, cherish ,accept

[Ss06]

I've done better the past few days. Much more detached. Less in pain. Living more me centric. It's not easy but I'm getting the feeling that it's kind of like riding a bike... If you slow down, your balance suffers... Keep pedaling! So that's what I'm doing. Not climbing any mountains just yet, just pedaling on flat ground for now. I'm slowly getting my mind in the right place.

Tonight H texted me asking if he could come over and kiss D goodnight at 7:30 ( that's their usual time to talk on the phone). He came over, played with her and the dog for a bit, chit chatted with me for a bit (no indication of anger or frustration or even hard feelings which is somewhat strange to me), helped ad brush her teeth, tucked her in and then came downstairs and sat on the couch.

We talked about next week and D's karate tournament as well as Halloween and the plan, what time we'd head to our friends' house, etc. I asked him if he'd be able to pick up a veggie platter to bring since I'd be up to my elbows in costume readiness and make up (D's costume requires an HOUR of make up). He said no problem and then got up to leave. Said goodnight and said, "see you tomorrow" with a big smile on his face. Wtf?

Not thinking anything about it. It means nothing. At least nothing significant.

Tomorrow should be very fun. I know d has been excited for weeks. Combine that with the amount of candy she's sure to intake tomorrow and she's going to be insane so I'd better rest up.

I hope you are all well. I'm regaining my inner strength and look forward to providing support again instead of just taking it. Very soon... I hope.

[Jefe]

Wow. The tri-polar activity of the WAS's is mind boggling sometimes.

[bravo61]

Easier said than done I know but just have a good time. Go into w/the expectation that it will be fun and it just might be! I spent 3 1/2 days w/W and kids & I let myself have a great time. That spirit is infectious even to WAS. Think about it like this, if you had a friend you knew had a deadly sickness would you look for reasons to fight? No ofcourse not. Funny thing is, I bet your D picks up her mood from how y'all interact. I know my kids do. Long story short, have a good time. PEOPLE R GIVING AWAY CANDY FOR GOODNESS SAKES! whats not to love about that. Good luck!

[labug]

Does a opening up to it mean acceptance? I am really trying but it is a lot to ask to succumb to the life someone else has chosen for you, you know? Add to that the impact on D that H seems to ignore because he doesn't want to face that this could actually be hard on her (lest he feel guilty) and acceptance seems silly and almost cruel. I realize that fighting it is futile... Is there no middle ground?

Yes, being open to it means acceptance because this is the life we have. Not accepting means you're not looking at reality, you keep wishing to fix the past or fix your H. I know, I was there.

"It's a lot...to succumb to the life someone else has chosen for you." (I hate the term but, stinkin thinkin)...it is tough to do. I have a couple of things to say about that, first, it rings of my H's feelings when he left and two, that's the little, scared girl in you talking. What if you change that to "this sux but I've been given an opportunity to work on stuff I know I need to work on and become a better R partner, a better mother, better business person, better friend? To be OK WITH ME! My H may grow and change and become my partner again or I may find a new partner more suited for the new me. Either way, I win."

Not all gifts are wrapped in pretty paper with bows.

About your D, this is a difficult thing for kids but they do better when the parents do better. Show her that you will all get through this together and you will. She may always grieve the loss but she can learn to deal with that appropriately, just as we do with other loss situations. Be her rock, her listening ear but don't automatically think she has the same feelings you do.

You don't know that your H is ignoring the effects of D on your D. What do you know to be true about how your H interacts and cares for D, right now, today? When we try to figure out the motives of others we are often led to where our mind is, not where their mind is. Mind-reading is dangerous.

Let go of blame, forgive him for being stupid or short-sighted or lost or in a fog or whatever and let it go. Put all that focus where it can do some good, you and D.

I mean, my life right now consists of a part time, hopefully temporary job, possible temporary living arrangements, awkward holidays... How does one open up to that? How do I create some permanence, consistency, predictability for D and I?

You control you.
You can control whether holidays are awkward or not.
You can control the consistency, maybe predictability (I'm not sure what you mean there). Permanence doesn't happen. For anyone. Life is constantly changing. Which you may come to see as a good thing because even tho you may have some very low, lows there can also be some amazing joyful highs.

I get what you're saying, I controlled to the nth degree in order to guard against unpredictable things popping up. I was filled with so much fear that I would be blamed for the bad, unpredictable things. It would all be my fault. I would be punished.

I couldn't see that everyone around me was miserable. And so was I. My attempts to control things outside myself didn't save me.

I think that's why this NorCal job is so tempting. Change big enough to start over. Granted, I'm seeing some escapism on my part in the decision but I'm looking at that. It may not be the best idea but I haven't even been granted an interview yet so it's not like I'm moving next week.

Escape fantasies are fun. I lived some of my escape fantasies throughout my life, changing jobs, moving house, moving from one state to another. I had many more in the year after H left, my friends probably tired of hearing them but I was given some very good advice, don't make any big decisions like selling house (unless have to), moving away, new R for at least a year. We're so full of emotion that we're not able to make a decision based in fact. Not unlike our WASs when they just have to get out of the marriage.

With my previous escapes I always found that wherever I went, there I was.

And labug, I am a survivor but I am brought to my knees when I think about D. I can't make this stop for her, protect her from it. Part of me despises H for thinking she's "fine" and will continue to be "fine". He doesn't want to face his decision as being hard on anyone but himself and I never knew he could be that kind of man. It makes me cringe to think I picked someone who could do this to her and convince himself that it's not that big of a deal. I just can't reconcile that.

Do you really think your H wants to hurt your D? Go back to what you know to be true. I think what scares us the most is our S was so unhappy with us that they feel this is the only way.

If your H is truly that shallow and uncaring then you're better off without him. But a shallow, uncaring guy doesn't call to see if he can come over and kiss his D good night.

Get out of his head, stay in yours. There was a phrase that another ex-poster used for those times when you might want to spin what the WAS is saying or doing "Isn't that interesting." In my experience, I did a lot of mind-reading and I can tell you that I've since found out from H that I was wrong 90% of the time.

And, if I'm making all these changes and YOU all can see that, why is H so closed off and blind to my changes?

We don't know that he isn't seeing them, that's your story and your timeline. Read The Untethered Soul again. ((( )))

You're doing great but peeling these layers is painful. Don't expect otherwise and it makes it easier.

Hope today is a better day.

[labug]

One other thing, really think about how much power you give him over how you see you.

Be the person you want to be, work on your stuff, walk your path. He's either decide he's like to walk beside you or not.

If he's not a man who can walk beside you have your answer.

[labug]

I hadn't read UR's post when I wrote this. She said it all so well.