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So reading seems to help me - both to understand what is happened and to reaffirm what i need to do. Before you say it I know it doesnt seem like very good GAL but i used to do a lot of reading/listening to audio books but had let it slide over the last few years and so this kind of self improvement is good for me - plus it keeps my brain occupied on me rather than thinking about what my W is doing.

anyways - here is my reading list as it stands though I'd welcome any thoughts on anything to be added, moved up the list or should just be skipped over


So far Ive read:
1) Divorce Busting - MWD
2) Connecting through Yes - Jack Ito
3) How to Practice: The way to a meaningful life - Dalai Lama
4) I love you but i'm not in love with you - Andrew G Marshall
5) My wife doesnt love me anymore - Andrew G Marshall
6) No More Mr Nice Guy - Dr Robert Glover

Next on the list to read are:
7) Divorce Remedy - MWD (if amazon ever manage to deliver it)
8) The 5 Love Languages - Gary Chapman (arrived today)
9) Stop Arguing, Start Talking - Susan Quilliam
10) Feel the fear and do it anyway - Susan Jeffers
11) His needs, her needs - Willard Harley
12) Love without Hurt - Steven Stosny


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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I've found DR to be great Jim.. I can't really speak for the others as funds haven't allowed me to purchase any more, but I can see how every little bit of reading can help, especially if they are the right things!!..


Me:35 W:31
S6 + S9
T: 10 years M: 7 years
BD: 7/2014
S: 8/2014
W has new BF: 12/2014
Still fighting the good fight!!..
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Wow, does that reading list look familiar. Let me know what you thought of I Love You But..., that was on my list but I haven't tackled it yet.

Seriously, I wish this site permitted us to recommend other books. There is a lot of great supplemental reading to DB/DR out there.

Anyway, you asked:

Quote:
On a side note I'd be interested to hear your take on the cross country moves. I'm the other side of that and feel like my W never tried to build a life here until she left me.


I haven't read through your whole thread yet, I've just dipped my toe in here and there, so this is just my experience.

Moving cross-country with tiny kids (my oldest was a year older than yours is now) was absolutely the hardest thing I've ever done, outside of my marriage crisis, in my entire life.

Harder than having small children.
Harder than grad school.
Harder than the CPA exam.
Harder than my first professional CPA job when I was working 80-100 hour weeks.
Harder than renovating our house.
Harder than moving cross-country with older kids or no kids.

I am not exaggerating. I bawled my eyes out every single day for six months.

When I moved to the west coast with my tiny children and my pregnant self, I was prepared to adapt to my new life. I worked my a$$ off to get us settled. We moved to an area where EVERYBODY was transplanted, so they were inherently welcoming of new faces, but the kids' nap/school schedules made it difficult. The challenge of just parenting tiny kids, who are interruption factories, made it difficult to have a continuous conversation with anyone. The way moms often judge one another's parenting on the fly made it difficult to connect ("I could never be friends with a woman who feeds her kid colored Goldfish/uses disposable diapers/lets the child bully her like that" or whatever the judgment du jour was).

My husband was no help at all. He was really happy at his job and our lives were separate and it was my responsibility to make it work. He traveled frequently. He unpacked maybe five boxes. I hated him for what I saw as his lack of compassion and appreciation for the sacrifices I'd made so he could take that job.

I ABSOLUTELY would have left him during those first two years if I could have figured out how to make it work. I was miserable. And I knew to expect all that, and had made efforts to counteract it. My OB and my pediatrician both were very concerned about me and suggested anti-depressants (the OB especially).

It took me two years to get to a point where I was willing to be close to him again, and the only reason I came to that place was that I recognized I couldn't be miserable forever. Either I had to bite the bullet and leave him, or I had to figure out how to be happy again. Since we didn't fix really any of the problems between us that had made me so willing to go, they really impacted our years after I decided to stay. I never told him I'd thought of leaving (fantasized about it, really) till after I found out about the affair. My impatient, judgmental treatment of him even after I'd made up my mind to stick around was primarily because my anger with him for how I felt after that move never got resolved.

I will read through your thread (or you can discuss more after you read my story) to see if I have any suggestions for you, but GO EASY on judging your wife for how hard she's worked to get settled after that kind of a move. These years when your kids are tiny are really, really hard, and best navigated with a lot of support (I missed my "mom mentors" -- friends with older kids -- most of all), and a move destroys that support. By the time you get it rebuilt you need it less.

God, it makes my stomach ache just to remember that time in my life.

Last edited by Maybell; 10/20/14 01:01 PM.

Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
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Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

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Thanks maybell. It sort of confirms what I was starting to realise.

We had kids about 18 months after we moved and my W found it really really hard and missed her mum so much. I felt like she kept being angry at me because I said we couldn't move back to her home town unless I could find a job to move to. she resented me for that and I think still does to an extent. We've tried to raise two kids with almost zero support (except nursery 3 days a week)

I never understood why she wouldn't try and draw on the new mums groups round here but then she has always been someone who doesn't make lots of friends. looking back I think that it was taking so much effort for her that she had nothing left for me or to make friends with. I really didn't understand how lonely she felt or what she needed from me. To an extent I was too busy trying to make sure the home was provided for, figure out how to be a good dad and deal with my own issues fears and guilt.

My reactions is where our downward spiral started.

Anyways from there it was 3yrs of negative cycle (classic avoidant nice guy syndrome on my part + some major errors) until she said she had had enough and wants to start a new life on her own so she can 'concentrate on being a good mummy' and 'find the love and happiness she knows is out there for her'

Its heartbreaking as its now so easy to see my mistakes and what I should have done differently to give us both the happiness we were longing for but she is too far gone and has nothing but contempt left for me.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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I should say that I think she has got to that point where she has decided she can't be miserable forever and that the solution is to leave me for the guy at the office (which didn't pan out quite as planned - thigh she is still trying to get him)


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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It's too soon to say she is so far gone. If my H had started turning around for me it would have taken a while for me to notice before I started being able to appreciate and accept that he was really doing what I had hoped for. I wouldn't have believed in it at first.

Hmmm... Note to self...

In fact, things between us didn't start getting really better till he made two or three really big, very uncharacteristic gestures that happened to be the right thing in the right moment. Then after a couple of years unfortunately life intervened and they went south again and now here we are.

Hang in there, Jim, your sitch is very new.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
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jim0987 Offline OP
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Thanks maybell

I've actually had a couple of really positive days just had a big wobble when I read your comments about the move and how hard that was. Reminded me how rough my W has had things.

This empathy business (new to me) can really get you sometimes........


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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I just posted this quote on another thread but I like it so am putting it on mine

The longer I love, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company...a church....a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past...we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude...I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you...we are in charge of our attitudes.

Last edited by jim0987; 10/20/14 11:10 PM.

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D paperwork in progress
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Originally Posted By: jim0987
So spent today with the kids and my W. It was actually a really nice day. Tried to be upbeat and did my own thing to enjoy the time with my kids. kids made us both laugh which was good so it was quite a happy day all things considered

W body language was all closed off and I made a concious effort to open mine. Not sure if it was the right thing but I want to try and be more confident and assertive and I figure open body language will help.

Not sure if I made a mistake as when the kids were in bed I said to her 'I had a really nice day. Thank you' she disappeared into her room for the evening

....I don't know if she could ever love me again, somehow I have to rekindle the attraction to me but right now Im being reminded of just how much there is to love and how good the good times were. Probably not helpful with detaching.


Congratualations on understanding covert contracts and starting to change the way you act around your W. You changed, your kids saw it and you and your W had a good time. Way to go! That is what DB is all about (changing you so your spouse has to change the way they interact with you).

As to your wife running off after you said you had a nice day.... When my SSM was at its darkest and our sex therapist gave us some sensate focus exercises to do, one day I gave my wife a massage and the moment it was over she ran for the bathroom, looked the door and spent forever taking a shower. I was left sitting on the bed in my underwear wondering what the hell had happened. Quite a while later and during a therapy session my wife confessed that she actually felt like making love to me after the massage ended and that scared her to the point she needed to run away. Maybe your wife felt emotions for you to a lesser degree, but was afraid of allowing herself to act on them.

If you had a good day and your kids had a good day, ENJOY.

Now you really have to stop wallowing in your mooning over your W. Yes, I know you love her, but it is so "NG" and it will not do a thing to win her back. You should be able to see what happens when you do the DB stuff right, it works. So knock off the NG stuff.

As to your reading list, self improvement is part of GAL and working on relationship skills is part of GAL. And she is noticing.


>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
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Im trying to knock off the NG stuff. Its hard work though and my defence mechanisms having really been tested yet.

she was much warmer toward me when she got in from work - even a tiny bit playful. I joked about a bit, fixed the printer she asked me to and then went out for drinks with a friend.

Less good during the night - S1 woke up crying and I went comfort him. W told me I was doing it wrong (normal for last few years) but I didn't say anything. Turned out he had a dirty nappy which I didn't think to check (couldn't smell anything) so wife ended up changing it and then saying something which felt like a smug dig. I simply said thank you for changing him and then went back to bed. Lots of detail for a simple interaction but it felt like I had not handled it well.

For the most part I'm feeling better more often and that is making acting like a more confident person easier.

Sounds false but reading two books (NMMNG and 5LLs) and a good IC session have really helped me see a couple of important things about who I am. Got to have a serious conversation with my dad as a result but i think that is going to be good for me and my relationship with him.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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