What is going on in their heads?

[Mozza]

Zimmy, I just read your sitch and I can tell how hard it's been. To have such a level of comfort, trust and commitment in a relationship and see it thrown away for... what? I send you my support.

Is it possible that he didn't love me enough and now he really just found his soulmate? Or is he a man who is just incapable of long term love and commitment because he doesn't know how to sustain it?

There's no way he found his soulmate on a plane ride. I'm not a big believer in soul mates, but if they exist, it can't hit you that fast. Infatuation is a much more plausible explanation for what he had. I've felt this instant connection with people a few times. I noticed that they come through special ways, like alcohol and quick confidences. The element of surprise, i.e. to get into deep conversations with a stranger on a plane, can make one feel like this is very special. In any case, I see a very plain explanation to his behavior. I'm able to see when it happens and to hold back, but your husband may have lacked the maturity.

I'm afraid they don't think of us when in the throes of passion. I know, it's sad. Just think of when you fell in love. Were you thinking about anything else? Did you care about your parents' disapproval for instance? Heck, for Romeo and Juliet, it made their R feel even more special. Us against the world! They'll never understand us and our love with all their down-to-earth logic!

I realized today that my W couldn't be with me because of the way I was in the R, but also that perhaps I can't be with her because of the way she left the R. I put that out there for you to reflect upon.

You say you've been together 7 years and that you were engaged. How long was the engagement? Is there something there, in the long engagement, that reflects some deeper issues in the R? I'm asking because you paint a fairly rosy picture of the relationship. It might be entirely accurate, but perhaps you need more time to understand all aspects of it.

PS: We still don't see your signature. If you've added it to your profile, have you checked the blue "add signature" checkbox on the left of your response box?

It helps to look at an A as an addiction. Addicts are only thinking of themselves and have trouble thinking logically. How this affects you isn't fully understood, because that requires empathy, and while in the fog they have very little, if any, empathy to access. Addicts lie, cheat and do anything they can, crazy or not, to get to the source of their addiction. It really not about you at all- affairs are very selfish indulgences that happen in a "bubble" so to speak.

Wow, that's powerful. I'm still not sure if my wife had an A (perhaps an EA, prior to separation) but it sure looks like her behavior. I even used the drug addiction metaphor before seeing it here.

[Anaru]

That quote about affairs as an addiction is indeed to true and so powerful.
I see that in my situation with my W's A.
The only thing is to turn to other sources of support because, for now, your W or H really has very little or nothing to give you.

[Zimmy]

Mozza: Thanks so much for taking an interest in my story. It means a lot to me to have someone to talk to about all this.

I think your insights are dead on. The one observation you made about our long engagement is particularly acute. That is a long, somewhat sordid story and is the crux of any issues we may have. I will try to tell it as honestly as I can.

We got engaged in Aug 2009 after dating for 18 months. It was the best day of my life and the most romantic proposal I could have imagined while we were on vacation in Mexico. We were both super excited about the wedding and spent the following months in the fall happily planning the day.

However, shortly after the New Year in 2010, he dropped an unexpected bomb on me. I was working on some wedding planning while in bed late on a Sunday night and he seemed to be distracted, so I joked to him "What - you don't want to marry me anymore?" He turned to me with a face I had never seen before and he responded, "I'm not sure." I was flabbergasted - did not see this coming at all. We had just spend a very happy holiday season together and I wasn't aware of any issues.

When I asked him what was wrong, he really struggled to tell me, but he finally admitted that he was concerned that I had put on some weight over the latter half of the year (due to my very stressful job). I wasn't obese by any standards, but I definitely could have been taking better care of myself. On one hand, I understand that people should not let themselves go in relationships; on the other hand, I would hope that my partner wasn't so shallow or so cruel as to handle it this way. In any event, after talking through the issue a bit more, he apologized and told me that really loved me, I forgave him, and we seemed to get past this.

Fast forward to the day before Christmas in 2010: he drops the bomb again - this time says that he is having doubts about us, but couldn't seem to give me a reason (I had lost the weight). We split up over the holidays though were talking, and I went home to Detroit devastated and confused - had a miserable Xmas crying in front of the fire. Even worse, one of my single friends called me up to tell me that he had just checked out her profile on match.com, which meant he had just joined and was hunting for a new girlfriend. I couldn't believe he could move on so quickly. I called him up and confronted him and he immediately took his profile down - he told me that he wasn't ready to give up on us, and he didn't understand why sometimes these doubts crept in as he knew he loved me very much. When I got back to New York, we had a real heart to heart, he agreed to go to counseling, and we ended up getting back together.

Fast forward to Dec 2011 and yes, it happened again. He told me out of the blue that he wasn't sure about us. That 95% of the time he had been very happy, but sometimes he has doubts becasue he felt that being in our relationship would prevent him from doing other things in his life (though he couldn't actually name any things that he thought he was missing out on, and admitted that our relationship had brought him experiences he had never imagined having - for instance, I got him a job at Morgan Stanley, we traveled the world together, etc.). He told me that he realized that he was really messed up in the head, and he recommitted to working with this therapist. What came out of that therapy was that he realized that he was a very insecure person, didn't really know himself or what he wants in life, that he is not sure he is capable of being in a mature relationship, and that despite all of this, he really loves me more than anything and he wanted to try to make it work because we had such a special bond. He seemed devastated and very shamed that he had hurt me so repeatedly and could be so shallow and selfish.

After all this introspection, things really got better. We had our happiest years in 2012 and 2013. In Aug 2012 he asked me to marry him again and he seemed really settled and sure. We had such fun that year as I invited him to take up my sport (riding horses) and he fell in love with it - it was wonderful to share this with him and enjoy the sport together. In June 2013, we bought a house together and we were so excited about making this our forever home. We spent a lot of money on the horses in 2012 and 2013, and so as a result we pushed the wedding back to next year in order to get our finances in order. i didn't push the wedding planning because I was nervous about his prior freak-outs, and I didn't want finances to be a point of contention.

Of course, then the affair started in Jan 2014 and that was the end of that....

That is the very abridged version of the story. Bottom line is that I left out all the wonderful times - the fact that other than these horrible episodes where my fiance would freak out for ridiculous reasons, we were very happy. He was always very loving. He was my best friend - we shared everything (or so I thought). We had great sex. We were building a life together, and he told me he had never been happier than with me and he was so grateful for our life. I knew naively that he had some real internal issues / demons / insecurities, but I thought my love was strong enough to make him a better man. I believed in him.

You should also note he was married once previously to a woman he dated for 7 years, then married and then had doubts a year in and they divorced. I thought it was just becasue they weren't compatible and fought all the time, but maybe I don't know the whole story there...

Maybe I was stupid for hanging in there so long. I guess I wanted to believe in the happy ending and believe in the power of love.

Be gentle...

[Mozza]

Woah, what a load you dropped on us! So far, your story had been a fairytale of love for seven years, of best friends getting together, of buying a house recently, etc. Now, we see that there had been breakups, a twice-delayed wedding, a prior marriage (same duration!), etc. These are all important aspects of the story leading to the WAH.

For your own good, be transparent on these boards, otherwise you'll get a good whipping like 25yearsmlc just gave to billman12 (mandatory reading for all of us!). Much like you got to be honest to your doctor, you will get perhaps less reassurance and validation, but more useful advice and solutions. Of course, it depends what you are looking for and perhaps right now you need to be told something specific, but friends might be better for this.

My concern is that you choose to ignore the flaws in your relationship. It seems to have happened before as you were caught by surprise and never seem to understand why he would want to leave you. It might be a mystery, it might be all in his head, but there's also a pattern on your part, no?

I'm probably not as gentle as you'd hoped, but believe me, it's with your own good in mind. It's not easy for any of us, let's hang together and get through it.

[Zimmy]

Mozza: Agreed with your observations. I hung in there all this time because I thought that what we had was special, we had gotten through some rough times before, and I believe in fighting for love/commitment - I believed in us and in him. I knew that he had issues in the past, but therapy back in 2011 seemed to make a huge difference and then we had a solid subsequent 2 years during which he recommitted to our relationship twice - first when he asked me to marry him again and second when we bought a house together. The last couple of years have been truly solid - no issues and lots of happiness. So hence the affair was a rather shocking revelation in light of this. I never thought he would cheat on me, despite his prior issues.

I wasn't trying to hide any of this. I alluded to some of this history in my thread and signature, while also trying to keep my history from expanding into volumes... But I agree that he and I had some patterns. Maybe I should have given up a long time ago, but I really loved him and I am somewhat stubborn to a fault, I guess.

[Mozza]

Thanks for sharing, Zimmy. I thought I had been a little too hard on you. It's sometimes hard to face everything immediately after the shock and also, we can't tell everything in the first couple of messages. I realized that there are still large swaths of my own relationship that I haven't shared yet, some might be crucial to understand the separation.

I agree with you that the last two years gave you solid ground to expect him to be committed for good this time. If you look at my recent post you'll see that my W had an A in 2009 and yet barely more than a year later, we conceived our second child. Three years later, she said she was moving out. It's hard to know if someone is really committed.

It looks like you'll need to be patient. You have the coming weeks and months to work on yourself. Learn from this experience, GAL, etc. It won't be easy at the beginning, so start with small things. Perhaps start with a list? But try to build on your momentum. And keep sharing with us.

[Zimmy]

Thx Mozza - you were fine and I value your input. Pls let's stay in touch. I need friends like you!

If you had to analyze, what do you think is behind your wife's behavior?

[Mozza]

I'm glad if I can be of any help. We all need the support. You'd benefit even more of the attention of the vets though!

If you had to analyze, what do you think is behind your wife's behavior?

These are the reasons she gave me.
1. She was tired of the fights at home. They were too frequent and intense.
2. She didn't feel accepted because of all my criticism.
3. These behaviors had reduced her love for me.
4. She didn't see a future together.
5. Her new job had given her the last independence she needed: financial.
6. Her new colleagues made her see that another life is possible.

Here are additional reasons I can think of.
7. She has a strong flight reflex when things get tough.
8. She is narcissistic and places her immediate happiness above all else.
9. She is impulsive and will not look far ahead at the consequences of her actions.
10. She got a lot of male attention at work.
11. She was prodded by a divorced friend.

There may be more to it and I'm still sorting it out. I'm curious how I will see this list in a few months. Incomplete or too long? Indulgent or harsh?

Go ahead and make your own list now!

[Zimmy]

Mozza:

Great (or at least thoughtful) list. Here's mine:

1. Insecurity; need for validation and ego boost from the OW, who is "lesser" and therefore he feels like a bigger man. She strokes his ego and says everything he wants to hear.
2. Narcissism and selfish tendencies - it's always about him.
3. Shallowness / lack of emotional depth. Lack of understanding of what committed lasting love is and entails.
4. Partial mid-life crisis - doesn't seem to know who he is, what he wants, afraid to commit and settle down when there may be other options out there.
5. OW gave him a glimpse of another life that he currently feels compelled to explore. Also in the affair fog and thinks the fantasy is the real deal.
6. Thinks that we should have prioritized our relationship more and gotten married sooner after we got re-engaged.
7. Ability to compartmentalize and detach from his feelings rather easily.
8. Conflict avoidant and doesn't communicate how he is feeling (probably because he doesn't fully understand his feelings). Turns off his feelings to avoid the guilt.
9. Ability to rationalize his awful behavior (we must not have been right if he was able to start an affair, it's not an affair becasue we weren't married and he's found his soul mate and it's not about sex, I should get over it since I will find someone better for me, we are where we are so there is no turning back, he doesn't feel "it" for me right now and he would feel it vs. the affair if we were meant to be together, he's not a cheater since he's never cheated before, never intended to hurt me / it just happened, etc.).
10. Parents have always enabled him and never put any pressure on him. Never learned how to cope with unpleasantness, conflict. Dad had a 9-year affair on his mom after 25 years of marriage and ultimately left for the affair partner.

Wow, that's a long, damning list. Sigh...

Also, he just emailed me with: "Hi. Thought we should try to talk tomorrow. Maybe by phone or email. I know there is a lot going on and I think it would be helpful."

Which means he wants to talk about the logistics of splitting up. Breaks my heart. I don't want this. I shouldn't want such a damaged person, but I miss the good side of him and all our wonderful memories. Do you think he will ever miss me?

So sad...

[Mozza]

Good work on the list. Also try to make a list that he would approve of, the kind of things that he probably says to his friends and relatives to explain why he's leaving you. It will help you to understand his point of view.

Do you think he will ever miss me?

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. But right now, he doesn't. Imagine he's on some kind of drug that will wear off in a few months. There's no talking to him. Abandon hope that he will not separate. Give him the space. Have you read DB or DR? Order one now. Think of surprising him with your change of attitude. He might not change his mind just now, but he'll think about it, now and later. Adopt a behavior for which you'll be proud. It's not just DBing, it's really the only reasonable thing to do.

If you've ever broken up with a boyfriend in the past, tap into that experience. I remember being completely detached after I had made my decision. I could not be reasoned or begged back into the relationship. Try to see things his way and you will have a better idea of what will influence him, eventually.

This phone call is not going to be easy. Lots of temptations to slip. Make sure you read the 40 newbie rules in the morning and just before the phone call. This is the kind of situation where most of us break down and come to regret it.