Fresh separation - trying to play by the book

[Mozza]

Eventually, when she realizes that e grass isn't greener and she can't solve her own emptiness problem by losing you, she will come to some hard realizations about herself.

Is it normal that I hope she will for her own sake? I'm concerned that she will have a miserable life if she doesn't get a hold of her immaturity. Maybe, deep down, I hope either she'll come to that realization or she will have a miserable life. Then, I think maybe she found her own special way to be happy and that I was holding her back. There are more than one paths to happiness. As you can tell, I'm afraid that my assessment of the situation is wrapped into my understanding of the world and that I'm missing out on hers, which might be equally viable.

Your W does sound very focused on certain priorities. Still, I have the same hope for you that I do for me, that with some distance from this decision, they will realize it was not as simple as they'd imagined.

Yes, my wife is simply elsewhere, doesn't think of me and focuses on her new situation. Today, she put a picture on Instagram: a cup of hot coco, a cup of tea and two pains au chocolat, tagged #happiness. Snacks for two... It felt like it was directed at me, especially as she put it up an hour after I posted (but that would imply she thinks of me). Oh well, cry a little and move on.

I don't hope she'll realize it's more complicated than she imagined and come back for that reason. I hope she'll realize she loves me and wants to be with me. It's very hard to accept that, but it's the only way forward for a healthy relationship. She needs to WANT to be with me, not just come back for convenience. I don't say that lightly. I hope I'll reach a point where I will have some standards to accept or reject her return. Right this minute, I would accept anything, but I know it means I'm not ready (my heart is screaming at my reason for writing this!).

I didn't have a good evening. I cried again because of the basic fact that my W is gone and that I miss her. I miss the touch of her skin, the look in her eyes, the way she walks across the apartment. I was also coming back from a week-end at my parent's place, with my daughters, and I was afraid of the responsibilities and the special kind of solitude of the single parent. I cried in my mother's arms, for goodness sake.

Before I finish for the night, I want to quote Fartiltre from a different thread:

My guess is that not even she knows right now! ….furthermore if it is so, it can easily change tomorrow. I have seen it many times here!

We want answers from our WAS that even they don't know. I try to remind myself often that she doesn't know yet if she's done with me, if she can love me again, if she'll ever return. Seeing what others have gone through when it fell apart for good, it might not be such a bad place after all. So it's not a matter for us of refraining from asking for answers: it's that these answers do not even exist yet. As other vets said: you can have an answer faster, but you're not going to like it. It's something to keep in mind, as we practice our patience.

I spoke with a friend tonight that broke up with his girlfriend of 5 years because he was fed up with her. She had some issues and he was impatient with her all the time. It took him 6 to 9 months to get over it -- he called it a detox -- and then they go back together, unexpectedly. It's been several years and the change in attitude has been permanent for him. Know hope.

[Mozza]

Oh, I forgot to proudly report that I had followed this rule today.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

My FIL wrote me an email today for my birthday (it was Thursday). It was quite unexpected, as he and his wife never really took to me and he approves of everything his daughter does. His email was very kind, thanking me for posting pictures of the kids, attaching a picture of the view from his house and asking about work. I replied by sticking to the same topics and giving a few details about work. No mention whatsoever of the breakup. I've no idea of his email was some sort of feeler to see if I'd bring up the separation, but I didn't bite. Well, I did write a paragraph on how much I love his daughter and how saddened I am by all this, but I didn't send it. ;-)

[Little]

I hope she'll realize she loves me and wants to be with me. It's very hard to accept that, but it's the only way forward for a healthy relationship. She needs to WANT to be with me, not just come back for convenience. I don't say that lightly. I hope I'll reach a point where I will have some standards to accept or reject her return. Right this minute, I would accept anything, but I know it means I'm not ready

I'm in the same boat.

I told BF (when I told him we can be friendly, but I'm not interested in being friends) that the bottom line for me is that I love him and feel like he's "home" for me. I don't care who did what to whom or why in the past (IE: I'm not keeping track of the wrongs like a score card), we can't change it. The past is only to be used as a learning tool for what to change and fix in the future, if he's ever willing.

This is the only condition I'll take him back under and I'd be pleased as punch if it ever happened.

But I'm not holding my breath, unfortunately.

[Mozza]

Argh! I found this in an old email where I explain to a friend how my W and I reconciled after she almost left me in 2009. He was going through a divorce himself and I was telling him to hang in there, not to give up even if his wife had suggested it was final.

W and I came that close to separating in 2009, while D was about 1 year old. Actually, the decision was so final that I had announced it to my parents, which is something that I had hidden from then until that moment because I didn't want them to know and worry about our difficulties -- only [best friend] knew in real time. We were already in the logistics. It was W's decision but I didn't want it to happen, so even though we understood that there was no going back, I wouldn't let her forget that I didn't want this to happen. It sure was easier for me than for you because I was there in person. But eventually, it paid off and W came to see the light and my point of view. The wall came down in one evening. We had just gone to some counseling session were she was completely disengaged. It really looked like a lost cause. But today, W is thankful that she changed her mind and our couple is stronger because of that. I can't imagine how much we would have thrown away because of these short-term difficulties.

In 2009, I did the opposite of DB. After a few weeks of arguing, reasoning, I understood she was leaving me and I broke down. I cried. A lot. I wrote her a letter, telling her that I had finally heard her. This letter was a turning point, among others. It worked.

And now I do just the opposite of this through DBing and giving her space, not reaching out, etc. In my defense, I pleaded for a week this time and it got worse every day. Perhaps she saw the same pleading and expected the same result. Still, I am now all confused. What am I supposed to do under the principle "do more of what works and less of what doesn't"?

I mentioned this close call above: yes, there is a pattern. My W has a strong flight reflex -- it shows beyond the R. Friends tell me to brace myself, that if she comes back, I'm in for going through this every 5 year or so. It's part of my reflection, but right now, I believe I can avoid it, make things better for good. I didn't know it was a pattern until recently so that's why I didn't address it.

In 2009, there was an OM. They had a short PA. He was a sweet talker, a married man who promised her was divorcing his wife anyway (four years later, he still hadn't...), that she was the most wonderful woman in the world, that he couldn't imagine how someone would level any criticism at her, etc. She fell for it. He disappointed her in the affair and she thought about what she was leaving behind. That's why she came back to me and our D. I forgave her A. Her commitment was firm and we decided to have another kid a couple of years later. Then five years later, she moved out and we share the two kids every second week. Sigh.

[1foot2]

Wow, similar sitch here. Ws first affair was in 11. I too wonder if this is all part of some pattern. Post-partum factors are present at both of my BDs, and seems like maybe for you too.

Is there an OM this time?

[Mozza]

Wow, similar sitch here. Ws first affair was in 11. I too wonder if this is all part of some pattern. Post-partum factors are present at both of my BDs, and seems like maybe for you too.

Perhaps some post-partum in 2009 (1 year after giving birth), but now our youngest is 3 so it's unlikely. What might have happened this time is that she stayed home for a year, after a very stimulating career and a move to a new country. She was job hunting, taking classes and freelancing from home. Once she got a job, she was overstimulated. She acknowledged herself that the new job had been a trigger. She saw how nice people were to her and she became financially independent (not quite: her parents supported her move entirely and probably pay part of the rent). Her shrink told her it was the last independence she needed to leave me, after detaching emotionally over the previous year (revisionist history? maybe, maybe not). The pattern here is that every time my wife starts a new job, it's the greatest thing, everybody is fantastic. Once she leaves, she can't bear anyone anymore and just wants out (flight reflex, I'm telling you). This may play in my favor, as she comes back down from her initial high. I know she's been under a lot of stress at work lately and, just after the breakup, she had her first warning that her productivity was not as good as expected. I don't want her to lose her job, but it was nice to hear that she got a reminder that this is just a job, not a new life.

Is there an OM this time?

I don't know. There's this one colleague who's helping her a lot and visiting her since she moved, but he doesn't sleep there. She told me there was no one when she left, mid-September, that she didn't want to be in a couple, she wanted to be alone with herself. Then again, her decision was quick and she moved on very quickly, which suggests and OM. Also, everybody who found an OM seem to have been lied to in the same fashion. As I said, I try not to obsess about it, but knowing would help me understand better the reasons for the separation.

[1foot2]

My W told me it's important to be on her own as she's never "been single" and "she's always moved from one relationship to the next", which is really strange to hear from your W of 9 years and mother of 3 of your kids. And, she is seeing OM several times a week, constantly texting him, etc. there's no logic or sense here.

The last A, W had just gone back to school and was riding a high of being newly engaged with that. This time, she's in a job she likes and is taking outside coursework to advance. And she has the same flight reflex you describe. She dropped out if school around the same time she came back to the R. What will happen this time?

[Mozza]

On a different thread, Zimmy asked me a question and I thought of pasting my response here.

If you had to analyze, what do you think is behind your wife's behavior?

These are the reasons she gave me.
1. She was tired of the fights at home. They were too frequent and intense.
2. She didn't feel accepted because of all my criticism.
3. These behaviors had reduced her love for me.
4. She didn't see a future together.
5. Her new job had given her the last independence she needed: financial.
6. Her new colleagues made her see that another life is possible.

Here are additional reasons I can think of.
7. She has a strong flight reflex when things get tough.
8. She is narcissistic and places her immediate happiness above all else.
9. She is impulsive and will not look far ahead at the consequences of her actions.
10. She got a lot of male attention at work.
11. She was prodded by a divorced friend.

There may be more to it and I'm still sorting it out. I'm curious how I will see this list in a few months. Incomplete or too long? Indulgent or harsh?

[Mozza]

I'm in a good place this morning. After reading the amazing list of GAL activities from 25yearsmlc, I decided to start my own. I just have a few ideas and I'd rather have acted on them before sharing them.

Also, after repeating to everyone here that their spouse has to go through their journey before coming back, I'm starting to believe it for myself. Instead of living day to day, analyzing every sign, I need to see this as a holiday and make the best of it. I already keep busy, but I'd like to do more NEW stuff.

Today's anecdote shows that my analysis is biased anyway (pessimistic). I shared a video on Facebook and my wife re-shared it saying "Thank you H!" I thought: of course, she likes the topic, she doesn't care about me. Then I realized that if she'd done the same thing to someone else, I'd have thought: "Lucky him, he found something she loves". Interestingly, while my head engaged in the analysis, my heart was not really affected. Usually, these things tie me in a knot for a while, but this time it was more curiosity.

[jim0987]

Hi mozza. Good thing your trying to make the best of it with new things. I agree 25 has an impressive GAL list.

It so easy to read the worst into things but that's where the standard 'derach' stuff comes in. Its way easier to post good advice on someone else's thread than follow that advice yourself

Glad your having a good day.