How to start rebuilding? - 2

[Hoju]

Well I'm 3 months in, looking back and reevaluating my progress. It's incredible how much can happen in such a short amount of time. I felt now was a good time to start a new thread as my other one is getting full, here's the link for those who want to catch up;

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...675#Post2497675

None of the goals I set for myself during my first read through of DR were achieved, they were too ambitious. My 180s have been a great success and have lead me towards a more fulfilling life. GAL has been going great, I barely have any time to just sit around, I've also realized what amazing family and friends I have. Probably the most important change is dynamic of the conversations between W and I have totally changed, she is no longer fearful to talk to me and what little contact we do have is very pleasant. She has also stated several times about my 180 changes and how proud she is that I'm making them, I also know she has been positively talking about me to her family.

I was hoping to get some help from the forums on setting some proper goals. I would like to focus on rebuilding a connection but I'm not entirely sure where to start. Here's what I was thinking:

I would like to be able to take her on a date.
Text more often about more personal things.
Have her slow things down where the separation is concerned.

The problem is these aren't action goals, I don't know what I can do to achieve any of these? I've never been good at goal setting Please help.

[Hoju]

Anyone have advice on goal setting?

Today W's best friend posted a picture on facebook of W and OM at a hockey game. Nearly killed me to see them together, I've known deep inside but actually seeing it was an entirely different kind of heartbreak.

I bought W a small gift of candy (it was for a coworkers fund raiser) and left it at the house for her to pick up when she goes tonight. She just said "thank you that it's very nice", I didn't tell her where or why I got the candy just that it was for her. I'm just feeling so sidelined right now and waiting in limbo is probably the most painful thing anyone can inflict on themselves.

[SunnyB]

Hoju, how about setting a goal of not looking at W's best friend's FB posts? I'm totally not kidding, don't torture yourself that way.

How about a goal of stop giving her gifts? That's pursuing.

Neither of those is going to help you along your journey.

[Hoju]

The facebook thing just popped up in my news feed. I guess I could unfriend everyone but that seems a bit extreme. I think I'll be ok going forward it was just the initial shock of how real it is now.

I guess this is where I get confused with how to DB. Aren't you suppose to be the man only a fool would leave? Wouldn't that man buy you something just because? It's not like I bought her diamond earrings or trip to italy, it was just a small gesture and one of opportunity at that.

DB hasn't seemed to do anything for me thus far and I would say my M has a lower chance of success then it did 3 months ago when I started. How long am I suppose to play uninterested and moving on? I'm seeing good signs and baby steps but all the large true indicators are still pointing to D.

I can't be both attached and detached at the same time. If I truely want to detach I need to go all in and get out dating again. Although I'm pretty sure this goes against what would be recommended for DBing. This passive endless tredding of water while the tide keeps drifting me further and further from shore is just killing me. I need to start swimming, either to shore (W) or to a life boat (someone else).

[SunnyB]

Hoju, you can unfollow someone on FB without unfriending them. They have no idea. It might be a tool you want to make use of with certain people. Your choice, of course.

Have you ever read this article on detachment:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

It doesn't mean you have to start dating someone else.

[Hoju]

I did not know you could unfollow on facebook, I've only recently started to use it while GAL to reconnect with old friends.

I read the detachment artical months ago, perhaps detaching is not really what I meant. I believe I've been detached from my W for years, I loved her for who she was and would try to build her up and encourage her beliefs and interests. I never tried to force or alter her to fit into my ideal image of who I thought she should be. I believe she was far too attached to me and when I didn't share that same deep all encompassing attachment she became unhappy and felt there was something wrong.

Perhaps I mean direction in life? Maybe it's the GAL portion I'm stuggling with. I do lots of things, have lots of friends, a solid family, good job, well educated and am financially stable. However, everything seems empty and rather pointless now. I'm putting all of my efforts for my future by trying to save my marriage, which has yet to bare any fruit. I feel like my entire life is in stasis and there is nothing more I can do about it, that doesn't involve giving up on my M.

[elltee2]

It sounds like we are going through a lot of the same things. A few questions;

Although W is complimenting you on your changes (which are great, btw), does she value progress as much as you do? Since your time apart has she done or accomplished anything to move forward as a human being?

That can be a huge issue especially for young couples. Some of us really strive for success in work, formal education, and activities outside of work. Others define themselves differently. Either but what they are, what they were, or something so simple as their job. Yet, others are totally cool with how things are and aren't seeking change or progress. It is important to you to perform the 180's and improve yourself, if such improvement isn't important to her, then you'll keep treading water in life when you get back together.

Who do you like better, the guy you are after her or the guy you were with her? Maybe she will come back and things will eventually workout. On the other hand, although it kills to think about-maybe she wont. If you can unilaterally find your own fulfillment, why not just stick with that for now and leave her out of your goal setting process?

[Hoju]

Thanks for the post Elltee,

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by progress or moving forward as a human? I suppose the answers would be no.

As for progress, if you mean life progress she was always the one pushing to move forward with life, get an apartment, get married, get a house, have a baby. I was always the one trying to slow things down, we wanted the same things in life I just wanted more time at each stop. Her life progress has completely stopped, she does have an OM but they will be years from a home/marriage/kids IF they even make it that far.

As for moving forward as a human being, I don't believe so. W has been in an unstable dead end job for quite some time, I've always encouraged her to look for work else where but she never did. After we first split she said she started looking for a new job, when I asked her about it a couple months later she said she had given up looking. Also, when we first split she said she wasn't sure what she wanted to do and that maybe she would go back to school. While we were together she had plans to take some classes in office administration while she was off on maternity leave. I assume this dream of going back to change career paths is gone as she wont have the money.

I always thought she wanted to be a mother and have a nice quiet family lifestyle. W never had anything to define herself, she was/is always defined by others. Which is why when she wrote off her best friend (family oriented) as a toxic relationship and shifted her new focus onto a new besty who was single she completely changed. Started dressing differently, listening to different music, even doing her hair like her new best friend. In many pictures they look like sisters. Now she isn't sure if she is ready for kids and a family, something she has spent everyday for the past 10 years dreaming about.

When we were together I stopped seeking personal progress, I was comfortable with who I was and my life the way it was. We were looking forward to adding a new member to the family, that was my progress, that was why I got up everyday. I love who I am now without her, I've taken on several new projects and am bettering myself in every way. The issue with leaving her out of my goal setting progress is my end goal in life is to have a family and kids, which means I either need to write her off completely and explore other options or hold onto hope that she may return.

[Hoju]

I have a question about how to ask for something. During our separation talks W mentioned I would be able to have one of the cats. This was really hard for her as we both love them very much. I haven't pushed for the cat while the house was up for sale and we had staging furniture in the house. Now that everything has settled how do I go about asking for the cat?

I don't want to piss W off or hurt her by taking it away but I love them and have taken care of them since they were kittens.

[Hoju]

Well W is moving ahead with the seperation agreement today, I guess this truely marks the end. I thought maybe she was coming around but honestly as long as she has OM why would she? I've been dreading this for so long now, I just want to break down and cry, beg her to give us a chance, scream at her for disregarding our marriage vows. I feel so helpless knowing nothing I do matters to her.

[MrBond]

"I guess this truely marks the end."

Why?

"I thought maybe she was coming around but honestly as long as she has OM why would she? I've been dreading this for so long now, I just want to break down and cry, beg her to give us a chance, scream at her for disregarding our marriage vows. I feel so helpless knowing nothing I do matters to her."

What have you been doing for YOU?

[zed]

Be Strong!!! I know It is hard. I have a mediation appointment to go to in a week. Splitting kids, finances. Every night I want to break down. Shift focus on yourself. What can you do for yourself. Try to think of 1 thing that will be better. Work towards that goal.

[Hoju]

Why? Well simply we are both young attractive people with no kids. Once the D is done it's actually harder for us to get back together then to just meet someone new. For her to even face friends and family at this point would be tough, after seperation is done forget about it.

I do lots for me and I've been much healthier in my activities, I love the new (revived) me. I've been really depressed for well over a year and didn't even realize it. I was escaping waiting for time to pass hoping and praying the IVF treatments would work so I could stop blaming myself. I just wish it didn't take losing the love of my life to wake me up.

Now I feel totally helpless in my sitch

[MrBond]

"Well simply we are both young attractive people with no kids. Once the D is done it's actually harder for us to get back together then to just meet someone new."

Not true. I've known plenty of couples with no children who have gotten back together. The bottom line is that you're her H. No matter how many years down the line you are apart, you will always be her FIRST H. People don't forget that.

Everyone feels helpless. It's not just because they don't have kids together or whatever. Ask the person whose spouse runs off with an OM or OW who's rich or any other circumstance. They've all felt helpless.

[Card29]

For her to even face friends and family at this point would be tough, after separation is done forget about it.

It is impossible to say what will happen in time in any of our sitches. I'm sure she doesn't want to be around them or face them right now. Give it time and don't worry about it.

I don't know if your family would tend to be harsh towards her since she left you. If so, I would request that they treat her respectfully. That will help to keep the road home paved a little smoother, plus it's simply the right thing to do. I know a few women in my family would love to "speak their mind" to WAW, but I made it clear that I would never condone that. They love me enough to be pleasant around WAW if they see her (which they will tonight).

And if it's your W's shame or guilt for leaving the M or hurting you that makes her not want to be around your family, that is understandable right now, but it would fade if things improved in your sitch. It is not that big of a road block unless something ugly happens between her and your family.

I just wish it didn't take losing the love of my life to wake me up.

We've all had that thought, usually many times. But keep working against that type of thinking. It only causes you unnecessary pain. Dodge those thoughts, man! It's history, it's past. It [censored] that it happened, but it did. Stockdale Paradox!

[Hoju]

Thanks mrbond and card for your posts, I really appreciate it.

W texted me this morning and asked if I needed help packing, I should decline right?

[Hoju]

W also just told me she has a dentist appointment next week and asked if she can still use my work insurance plan. I want to say yes because I feel it's the right thing but that's cake eatting right?

[Hoju]

Well after being dark for so long it feels like a whirlwind all of a sudden.

I asked W if now would be a good time to split up the cats. She very politely asked if there was any way I would consider letting her keep both. She offered compensation in the form of money or to buy me a dog. I don't care about money and I'm moving to an apartment so as much as I want a dog (not that i would let her get it for me) that is completely out of the question. I love my cats and don't want to lose them too but I really don't want to hurt W.

Also something I found odd was that she asked if this was a conversation we should have in person? I don't want to meet in person, if I see her start to cry I would give her anything.

I know DB says to do things that challenge her core beliefs which awkwardly enough in my case would be to take the cat as I've always put others needs and feelings ahead of my own. That being said I'm sure that's not what was intended by 180 and if that's who I need to become to get her back, then forget it I don't want to be that person. I guess in typing this I've answered my own question

[Hoju]

Anyone have any advice on the packing help, benifits or that cat issues?

[SunnyB]

Anyone have any advice on the packing help, benifits or that cat issues?

On the insurance, I don't see this as a matter of cake eating, but whether she still had coverage on your plan or not. If she's still covered under your plan, then yes, she should use it. Someone (you or your employer) paid the premiums, why wouldn't you use the coverage?

[Hoju]

Ok thanks I'll let her know she's still covered. Maybe I don't know what cake eatting is. Just seemed like she wanted to take advantage of a perk of marriage without having the commitment of being married.

[Hoju]

Ok thanks I'll let her know she's still covered. Maybe I don't know what cake eatting is. Just seemed like she wanted to take advantage of a perk of marriage without having the commitment of being married.

[Hoju]

If anyone is around I would love some advice on how to handle the cat situation it's been 3 days and I haven't answered her yet.

[jim0987]

Hi Hoju

My gut reaction is to say that she leaving you and the life connected with you and that includes the cats (unless they were hers first)

[Hoju]

Thanks for the reply Jim, we got the cats together about 4 years ago. We agreed that she would take one and I would take the other, she has had both in her new apartment while the house was up for sale. Now that the home sale is final and all the staging furniture is gone she wants to go back on her word and keep both cats. I love the cats and could really use the comfort they offer right now but I don't want to hurt W as she is very attached to them as well. My dilemma is how do I approch asking for the cat? Should I even ask, because I really don't want her to hurt any more, but she did this not me.

[Hoju]

W contacted me about the lawyers again today, we are meeting next week to finalize the house sale and the separation agreement. I'm very sad things have gone so far in the wrong direction and so quickly. W is still with OM although they haven't come out publically yet, I'm pretty sure she is just waiting for the separation agreement to be signed before announcing her new bo.

I had an interesting offer at work today and could use some advice on how to proceed. I finally got the nerve to tell a long term friend about my M problems, very few people at work know. This friend recently bought a house and immediately asked if I wanted to move in, rent free, just pay the utilities and take care of the dog while they are out on business 2-3 weeks a month. Sounds great right? Well the catch is it's a she, and a smoking hot she at that, who has a reputation of being easy (slept with the ceo and a vp). Would it be appropriate to move in with her or would that conpletely kill any chance of saving my M?

[Nitty]

Focus on your life right now. Don't make any decisions based on "will that save my M or kill it?" Your W is gone.

Does that mean you do something boneheaded like move in (for free) with a person known throughout your universe as a skank? As the office "ho-worker"?

"Hoju and the Office Bicycle. Yes. They are living together. He left his wife. He says it's just a business arrangement. Yeah. Right."

Thereby guaranteeing you to be branded by everyone in your employment as a member of Ho-Workers United even if you never touch each other?

Frankly, that would be a stupid move for your job, for your work reputation, etc.

Frankly, nothing ever comes for free.

Frankly, moving in with this gal would be a bad idea, I think, even if you were a single man with no R history whatsoever.

Therefore, I would recommend against it. Not because it would hurt your chances of reconciliation, but because it is a bad decision for Hoju.

[Hoju]

Thanks Nitty, I thought that might be how others would view it too, just wanted to make sure from a 3rd party. It's really a shame because it would be the perfect living arrangement, as we get along great and I would largely have the place to myself. I laughed pretty hard at the term ho-worker, it isn't one I've heard before.

After things are settled next week I see no reason for W to contact me. Anyone in a similar sitch without kids know any good ways to keep contact with out pursuing?

[Hoju]

Not much new to report, I signed a lease for an apartment I will be moving into come January next year. Which means I will be staying at my mothers over Christmas. It's hard to believe the house will be gone in a little over a week.

I'm still having very little contact with W, just a few logistical emails as she coordinates moving the last of her things. They are always plesent as she does't seem to have any hard feelings towards me. We will be meeting the house lawyer together on Wednesday, just need to focus on being the best and most attractive me I can, there is a good chance she will give me the finalized separation agreement when we meet which I need to be prepared for.

I don't understand how DBing is suppose to work when you have no contact. I've checked out her facebook and she seems to be having a great time. I feel in my absence she is just getting closer and closer to OM (quite sure they are "officially" together now) I know this is her journey and I can't control her, I do understand the concepts but never initiating contact or doing anything together other then D tasks just feels like I'm giving up and giving my consent that she is free and single. I often find myself dreaming that she came back or that life was normal again and none of this happend, then I wake up and face the harsh reality.

[Nitty]

I don't understand how DBing is suppose to work when you have no contact.

Hoju, because DBing works on YOU. You can't change your situation until you change you.

I got nowhere with DBing until I started doing it for me, and not as a way to get my H back.

There are LBS who DB their butts off, and their WAS still don't come back. DBing is not a guarantee to save your marriage. Rather it's more of a way to save you.

DBing is not about manipulating your W into coming back. It is about making honest changes within yourself so that if:

1. If she does come back, you are a better man and your R will have a good chance to survive.

2. If she doesn't come back, you are a better man and your new Rs will have a good chance to survive.

Either way, you win. Either way, your life will be awesome.

[Hoju]

Nitty, I can appreciate that DBing is a personal thing and needs to be done for each person and not simply as a way to manipulate a spose into returning. I've made many honest changes for me personally to be a better person. I believe in M, and I truely believe my W and I can get past this and have a very wonderful life together.

DBing is also about doing what works and I can tell you if I stay on this path I will end up divorced for sure. There must be something that can be done to increase contact with W without seeming needy.

[Hoju]

We met with the lawyer today to finalize the sale details of house. I walked in calm, cool and collected, looking and smelling great. Things were going well, sign here, sign there. Then the lawyer left us alone for about 5 minutes. W was very pleasent, she asked how my trip to jersey was (i went with some friends last weekend) i just told her it was amazing and left it at that. I asked about her family and made a joke about the snow and her cousins who live in buffalo, she asked how I was doing with everything and I just told her I was doing good, I then asked how she was doing with everything she just shurgged and looked sad like things weren't great, I'm sure she just did that to spare my feelings so I wont read into it. I also asked about the cats she said they were good and that I never answered her text (the one about her keeping both) I just said I know and changed the subject, I'm not ready to give up the cat so I'm postponing it.

The lawyer came back and asked for my forwarding address, for some reason at this point I lost my nerve. I will be staying at my mothers until the new year and didn't want to admit that I was moving back home in front of W. I started to choke on my words and tried to get out that I would just let him know. When we left I was so rattled I was shaking like a 14 year old at his first high school dance. W told me to drive safe home (it's snowing heavily) i said you too and essential ran off.

I'm not sure why I get so nervous around W. She has been nothing but nice and is just trying to get on with her life. I feel I may have squandered one of my last chances by losing my nerve, which is not something that happens ever to me.

[Hoju]

Got a text from W this morning saying she wouldn't be able to come get the swing on Monday like she had planned and asked if i would be home wednesday. I told her I would be and asked if she needed any help. She then asked if I still played hockey on tuesday nights, so I replied "if you don't want me there just say so.", she replies with "i just don't want to be in your way". I just said "you wouldn't be, just let me know when and if i should disappear for an hour, what ever is easier for you"

I know it's mind reading but she doesn't want me there because it's OM who is helping her. I'm just curious as to why she doesn't just ask if I could make myself scarce for an hour.

[Nitty]

Nitty, I can appreciate that DBing is a personal thing and needs to be done for each person and not simply as a way to manipulate a spose into returning. I've made many honest changes for me personally to be a better person. I believe in M, and I truely believe my W and I can get past this and have a very wonderful life together.

DBing is also about doing what works and I can tell you if I stay on this path I will end up divorced for sure. There must be something that can be done to increase contact with W without seeming needy.

That's true, Hoju, I can see you've been working hard. You are in an awful situation and I know the feeling. But try to look at it as an opportunity. This is your opportunity!

As you become a better Hoju by DBing (PMA, GAL, No Expectations, DETACHING), you automatically become more like the man she fell in love with. Better yet, it becomes obvious that while you never wanted this, you are respecting her wishes (not pushing or pursuing her) and are ready to MOVE ON. If there is a any chance in her hard little heart, this will loosen it up a bit.

Anything that focuses on her won't work long term. It might work short term, but then you'll be living a facade that will break down eventually.

I've read countless books... They all basically boil down to the same thing, which DR and DB sum up nicely: Change yourself first. Everything else will fall into place... whether it's what you expected or not (and remember... no expectations! Just focus on yourself, live your life, be the best Hoju you can be.

I'm not telling you, "Ooo la la it's so easy you must be doing it wrong." I'm telling you, "Sh!t! This stuff is hard! I mess up all the time, then I get up off my a$$ and keep on moving forward."

My H & I are trying to reconcile, it's very, very hard. We still live apart. I mess up all the time. I find myself losing detachment then I have to do my mental exercises to get me back in the right place. No one event will destroy it all, no one event will save it all.

Don't focus on increasing contact with your W. You are focusing on the wrong target. Focus on making your life fun and fulfilling. You can't push her into contact, but by being the Real, True, Honestly Hoju, you become the world's biggest magnet if your W is meant to be with you, she will be drawn to you.

She may not be ready. You don't want her back until she's ready, anyway. And what if she never changes? The Real, Honest, Authentic Hoju doesn't want a W who's been acting the way she has. He wants a W who realizes she messed up, big time, and that she needs to work to regain your trust, to make things right.

You deserve much, much better than what she has to offer right now.

[Hoju]

Thanks Nitty, I try to focus on me and on GAL, PMA and detaching. I've done so much for myself, counseling (both solo MC and IC), I quit wasting time on computer games, I've been working out, learning a new language, reading, started more vigorously managing my own stock portfolio, eating better and trying to make sure I get to bed at a decent hour every night. I've also reconnected with plenty of friends and have been on several trips with them, I'm hardly ever home my life is so busy. I've always been a very positive person and have managed to avoid letting the world get me down so keeping a PMA has been easy... at least to the outside world. However, I still feel a great void and emptiness, I'm lonely and without purpose. I know GAL and detach is to help with this feeling but I just can't get rid of it, everything reminds me of her.

I met with a friend for some rock climbing this weekend. Over a couple of beers he told me that he had been at a Christmas tree lighting ceremony with W and that she was there with OM. Now it is official that they are dating and the fears I always knew to be true but hoped they weren't are breaking my heart all over again.

W is still very pleasant with me and we've texted quite a bit these last few days as we get the final things finished for the home sale. I asked if she would like a couple of wedding artwork pieces that we had, I just told her to leave them if she just planned to throw them out and I would keep them. I came home tonight to find they were still here, it hurts to think she really didn't want them at all and would just toss them (I know lose the expectations, and honestly I didn't expect OM to carry out a picture of every ones best wishes on our wedding day). W has also blocked her friends from tagging her in photos, I assume this is to prevent her family from seeing that she is already with someone else, however I don't really mind so much as she's left all of her pictures up which are primarily of me, good times we've had and our wedding, I'm sure it will hurt again when she takes those down but for now it's nice to see them.

Sorry for the long winded post, it's been awhile and a very emotional week for me with the house and learning the truth about OM.

[Hoju]

I need some advice.

For those who haven't been following me here's a quick background. Me and W have 2 cats, when we split we agreed to each take one cat. She has had both since I stayed in the house to sell it. After the house sold I asked W if I could get the cat back, she sent a very kind email asking if there was any way I would consider letting her keep both. I just ignored the text as I wasn't sure if I was willing to give her both. I've tossed and turned about it as I really don't want to hurt my W, but I've decided I would like my cat. I will send her an email tonight asking for the cat and wanted some feed back as to how this sounds before I push send

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply to you regarding Ellie, it's been a very difficult decision to make. I am very sorry but I would like Ellie I hope this is still ok with you. I am staying with my mother until january when I get my new place, if you would like to keep her until then that would be ok.

Does this sound ok? Anything I should add/remove?

[raliced]

Hi Hoju,
I think your email is fine, but I have different feedback for you. Didn't you say you had had these cats since they were kittens together? Are they bonded together? If so it might be unkind to separate them.

[Hoju]

They are brother and sister and have never spent a day apart in their lives. When we got them W only wanted 1 and I said lets get 2 so they would have company when we weren't there. We were given these 2 because of how close they were as kittens when the family had originally intended to keep the male. They are as bonded as cats can get, it kills me to break them up but this isn't my choice. Why should I be the one who keeps suffering? Any guilt from breaking them up should fall on W not me.

[raliced]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree about your having a choice. It seems you do have the choice to not break them up. I sympathize as I certainly know the pain of being split from a beloved pet. I'm sure you know there are tons if cats and kittens who need the home you could provide. It probably doesn't feel like one could replace Ellie, but you might be surprised. Good luck with your decision.

[Hoju]

Well another shot to the heart today. Got an email from W the other day about how I would like to recieve the revised separation agreement, she could mail or have her sister delivery it at our weekly soccer game. I just said what ever was easier for her.

Today I get the painful response that she will mail it because she is out of town and wants to make sure I get it soon. Of course this sends me into a nose dive, why is she out of town? How long is she out of town that she has to send mail?! I assume she is with OM (probably visiting his family for christmas), someone would have told me or I would have seen on facebook if she was just taking a vacation. I know it's mind reading and I can't change it so I'm posting, that's what these boards are for right?

[Hoju]

Why can't I just move on? There is a very attractive girl at work who keeps throwing herself at me. We've been friends for years and laugh all the time as well as share many of the same interests. Why am I not excited to get to know her better? Get to know her family and friends? Or even simply just sleep with her? I feel nothing for her, I enjoy our time together but if she quit tomorrow and I never saw her again I wouldn't care.

My W cheated on me, she is happily with someone else, what's wrong with me? why can't I just let it go and move on?

[Mozza]

The simple answer is that your W started detaching months ago, if not more. Also, you facilitated the process by pursuing and begging, which is not attractive. Now, you're just starting to detach and, on top of it, she makes herself very attractive by being unattainable and with OM. Of course, it's going to be hard for you until you focus elsewhere. The main reason you're not attracted to this girl at work is likely that your attachment to your W is still very strong, but I suspect that the fact that she's 'throwing herself at you" is not helping. Be patient with yourself.

[Hoju]

Well it's been over a week so I figured I should post something. Nothing much has changed in my sitch, it's been very quiet from WAW's camp and as I'm not initiating any contact very quiet on my end too.

W broke the silence today with a text to tell me she is having the gas company send me a rebate cheque, not sure why she is having it sent to me but what ever. Nothing special but was still nice to hear from her, I just texted back really short "ok thanks".

Still crazy busy 2 hockey and 2 soccer games this week, saw the new hobbit movie with BIL yesterday, work xmas party tomorrow and I'm planning for the first time ever attending the after party. I told another friend about my split and he told me another mutual friend had just split with his W as well, I reached out to him and we are getting a beer next week to commiserate together. Other then that pretty quiet, no desire to play video games any more and my french is coming along quite nicely, I'm picking up much more when my friends speak.

Thanks everyone for your support I'll continue to watch others and keep up on weekly logs. Of course I'll post more frequently if anything W related changes.

[jim0987]

Hi Hoju

Keeping yourself crazy busy is a really good thing to do, the distraction will help.

I know exactly what you mean though about the video games. stuff i used to enjoy doing like that or watching certain TV shows they just dont hold my attention or relax me like they used to.

Can you remind me what your 180s are and how you think you contributed to the problems in your marriage. its helpful to get a sense of how your doing on these

[Hoju]

Thanks for the reply Jim, it's been quite awhile since I've evaluated my progress and reviewed my flaws and 180s.

A very large part of our problems was my video game addiction. I never realized I had an addiction until I lost my W. I had a good job, loving family, a very nice house, money in the bank, loads of friends, beautiful wife and played dozen of sports, how could I possibly have an addiction? Only junkies without real lives have addictions, mine was nothing more then a hobby. Now looking back I can't believe I didn't see just how highly rated games were on my life tree and because of that how badly I treated my W and neglected her feelings, she was a real trooper to hang on as long as she did. She went to bed alone pretty much every night because I would stay up playing, I would turn her down for sex if it was going to interrupt my game time, I made her wait if she wanted to talk about something until I was finished, I was a pain in the ass every time she wanted to go somewhere, I even choose to play games when she got stuck in a snow bank and needed my help.

My 180 for most of this have been easy, I simply just quit playing video games the same day W told me she was done. I wiped my computer, joined an online gaming addiction forum for support, confessed to my W that I had a problem and was seeking help and I started seeing an IC. I've filled my time with more productive hobbies like learning french, working out, more closely managing my stock portfolio and reading.

Without video games I've become a "yes" man, games made me say no or be difficult if i had to do things that would take away from game time. Being a yes man has given me plenty of great stories to tell and many new friends. It was tough at first, I remember my head screaming why are you doing this? I remember the fear of the unknown, but I would get through it and saying yes is becoming more natural now and I'm learning to accept the fear with the excitement of not knowing how a night will turn out.

Another problem was I stopped being a good person. I felt the world owed me because of my fertility issues and my dad leaving. I was spiteful and negative and my W would feed off of that being a naturally negative person herself. I've been trying to always stay positive and help people. I began regularly donating blood, I helped a friend paint and another friend hang some shelves and pictures, I even filled a coworkers windshield washer fluid on my lunch because she didn't know how. I've accepted that the world doesn't owe me anything and my choices are my own (my IC has helped a lot with this), life isn't always easy but it's very important to keep smiling and hold your head high.

W would also complain that I wasn't there for her and that she would go to anyone for support rather then me. I've just tried to validate her concerns and listen to her feelings when she speaks. She was very emotional over the sale of our home and I just tried to make sure I was there as a friend to listen and offer comfort.

I probably don't deserve a second chance with my W and I'm ok with that, I'm living with my actions and moving forward as a better person. I do however remain hopeful that one day she will come around and want to work on us.

[Hoju]

I signed the final separation agreement today. It was not easy, like finally giving up after a long fight. I figured I would wait until after Christmas to return it to W.

Just feeling pretty low today.

[JCred]

Why can't I just move on? There is a very attractive girl at work who keeps throwing herself at me. We've been friends for years and laugh all the time as well as share many of the same interests. Why am I not excited to get to know her better? Get to know her family and friends? Or even simply just sleep with her? I feel nothing for her, I enjoy our time together but if she quit tomorrow and I never saw her again I wouldn't care.

Many times people with low self esteem subconsciously think that since I don't even like myself, there must be something WRONG with HER if she can like someone as low as me....

[Hoju]

Thanks JC, I think you might be right about my low self esteem. I try to hide it but I think deep down I under value myself. I'm going to my friends house today to help her hang some pictures and shut off her outside water. Moving forward with my life becoming the good person I want to be.

Had an awesome Christmas eve hanging out with my family. It's so important to have a great family in these hard times, something that tends to get forgotten in the good times. Every family get together I nominate myself as babysitter, which I love. My back and neck are a bit sore from being a horsey to 3 kids but it's worth it
Merry Christmas everyone.

[Hoju]

Nothing much has changed in my sitch. I moved into my new place on friday maybe i can get my life settled down alittle now. I signed the final version of the separation agreement over the holidays and will deliver it to W after work tonight, it might very well be the last time I ever see her so I should be prepared.

I guess I should just stick with the standard answers tell her I'm doing good.

She often asks if there is anything I want to talk about, how should I answer this? My gut would be to just tell her nothing as nothing I say will change anything.

Anything else I should be prepared for tonight? It might be just a simple "here you go" "bye".

[jim0987]

How's the new place? Are you able to make it 'yours'?

More importantly how are you getting on with the changes you've decided to make?

And finally how did the delivery go?

[Hoju]

The new place is really nice, it's not as nice as the house which I seem to regret more and more letting go of... can't change that now though. Much of the furniture is stuff from the house, W took pretty much all the new things we bought together and left me the items we inherited from my parents, their is some comfort there. I'm not really one for decorating so it's pretty barren but I'm hardly ever home so as long as the bed is soft I'm happy.

I did break out in a weird rash on my forearms and back. Not sure why as I've never had an allergy to anything. I just hope it's not something hidden in the apartment like mold or some chemical in the water. Been about 3 days now and not sure if I should be checking with a doctor or just ride it and see what happens.

Changes are going well. My life is full of activities and as mentioned above I'm almost never home. Still staying off the video games, looking back now I can't understand why I thought they were so important.

The delivery went not as hoped but as expected. "Here you go" "thanks" "bye". It's sad but that's probably the last time I'll see W.

[Hoju]

I recieved an email from W today letting me know about the lawyer bill and what my half of the payment would be. She also said the lawyer can put through the divorce papers now, they wont be effective until july (1 year min separation in canada) but essentially everything will be filed now, if I was ok with this.

I don't know what to do, obviously I'm not ok with this but what choice do I really have in the matter? Should I tell W it's not what I want?

I have no reading on where she is at as we haven't really spoken in months. I also avoid the topic when hanging out with mutual friends and family. I would assume OM is still in the picture but I have no way of knowing for sure. Could she be looking at this as a way to take the temperature of where I'm at or is that just wishful thinking?

[jim0987]

What do you feel would be the gain from either not agreeing or by saying something?

Did you get that rash checked out

[Hoju]

Honestly, I have no idea. In the long run I don't suppose anything I say will matter much at this point. I guess my fear is that by just saying go ahead it will close the door forever. Where as if I say something like I would rather wait it leaves the door open ever so slightly, but then will it turn her off to think I'm still interested? I don't want her to think I'm just sitting around pining over her. How do I say wait without sounding needing?

The rash went away on it's own so all good there, still no idea what may have caused it.

[jim0987]

Does saying wait Really close or open the door any more or any less - I'm not sure it does.

Given where you are at my feeling is that something more positive is the right response. Something that says your moving on so not bothered either way.

Probably not a bad idea to post a draft for people to look at

[bdub]

Hoju,
Good to see you again old friend.
Could you respond to her and tell her you need a little time to think it over? Also, how are you getting roped into paying half the lawyer bill? She walked, not you.

[Sotto]

Hi Hoju

I think the standard DB response would be to say - This isn't what I want, but I respect your decision and won't stand in your way if this is what you want to do.

[Hoju]

Thanks for the replies

Jim my main concern is we don't have any kids or any reason to ever talk again. If I say just go ahead and file then it's over now, if I postpone until july it might give her a chance to realize life isn't all sunshine and rainbows on the other side of the fence. I will definitely post a draft later today to get some feed back.

Hey bdub, been a while it's good to see you again. I'm not sure this is the kind of thing I can think over as there really isn't much to consider, either I'm done or I'm holding on hope. I conceded half of the lawyer fee as my W was very fair about the splitting of the finances, without going into detail I had a lot more to lose financially then she did.

Hey toots, thanks i think that's the method I'm going to use, I'm sure she will say file now but at least i will have tried.

[bdub]

Hoju,
You can tell her you need time to decide if now is the right time to file. Ask for 2 weeks and settle for a week.
I agree with toots. When you do give her an answer it should be similar to "this is not what I want, but I respect your decision and will not stand in your way"

Regarding the finances: Smart move. If you have a LOT to lose financially, you might consider agreeing to file right now, that way she cannot change her mind. I don't know the exact numbers but your chances to R are about the same regardless of the status of the legal filing.

In my sitch I am pushing to file quickly because she has been making changes to our original agreement and I am trying to protect my finances and my 50-50 time split with the boys.
Once it gets filed she cannot make any more changes.

[Nitty]

First... get all your finances and legal work taken care of. You need to protect YOU.

Then I would tell her, "I don't want to end our marriage, but I won't stand in your way. I respect your decision but I disagree with it. I'm sorry I tried to hold on to you when you didn't want to be held." No sarcasm or extreme grief. Just a gentle sadness but determination to move on.

Don't keep worrying that you'll say the wrong thing that will end all chances of reconciliation. Thats not how it works.

If she realizes it's not all sunshine and rainbows out there, and she wants you back, she will come back and try. In the meantime you'll use her absence to focus on you and being the best man you can possibly be... and for YOU, not for her.

And the above is the speech I gave myself so many times. Just FYI. I had to tell myself this over and over and over.

[Hoju]

Thanks guys, I believe all of the finances have been settled with the signing of the separation agreement so there should be no more issue on that end. I'm not overly sure why she wants to file now especially since it wont be effective until July anyway. W has always been one to move very, very, very quickly when she wants something. Here's the draft for my email;

"W,

I don't want to end our marriage, but I won't stand in your way. I respect your decision but I disagree with it. If you would like the lawyer to file now here is my address. Just let me know what you decide.

I am doing very well and enjoying my new place, thank you for asking."

There are a few other logistical things to add but they aren't really important so I'll add those after. Even just writing this it feels silly, she doesn't love me any more and clearly wants out. Should I even bother with the "I don't want to end our marriage, but I won't stand in your way. I respect your decision but I disagree with it." or just tell her to go ahead. Thoughts?

Thanks again guys

[Hoju]

I think I may actually be pretty close to being fully detached. I sent the email tonight and while writing I realized I honestly didn't care how she answers. I don't expect a positive response for opening up again and telling her it's still not what I want and honestly I don't really care. I had an awesome weekend and life for me is very good. I suppose this is just a high right now and reality may come crashing in again but I feel completely at peace with the idea of losing W forever.

[Hoju]

Well today would have made 3 years being married. Honestly it's hard but I thought it would hurt more.

I still haven't heard back from W regarding the filing for D, not sure if that's good or bad. I know the answer doesn't matter, just continuing to move forward with life.

[Hoju]

W emailed me back today regarding moving forward with the D. Simply said, sorry it took so long, this isn't easy but she is going to tell the lawyer to go ahead and file. Looks like this is the end of my rollarcoaster ride, not the stop I would have liked to get off on but it's one I've come to terms with. Thanks everyone here for all your help and support.

[helpjim]

my God i completely feel for the situation. it is tragic. my marriage was failing and with no hope for counseling and such loneliness for two years before the surprise filing and looting she did. EA or PA maybe happened, dont know. we havent spoken since May.

it took me months to mourn, but i feel like she never existed anymore.
you will heal, you deserve better. pray or work on yourself to find someone better.
i did and there are many that find me attractive.

we want to forgive and reconcile, but the women in todays society are told "there is always something better"
i know there will be many lonely empowered females that are high off ruining us until karmic debt is repaid

[jim0987]

Hi Hoju, sorry to about your latest news.

Wife and divorce aside, how are you doing?

[helpjim]

my gosh are all american born women evil?
affairs, OM, PA. so wrong

[Hoju]

No they aren't evil and I'm sure all WAS have no intentions of hurting the LBS. They do it because they are unhappy, feel trapped and see it as there only way to happiness. While I'm sure others make the decision to leave much easier for the WAS, as they offer comfort and support, it is our own actions that more often then not cause our sposes to stray.

I haven't posted in several weeks as my sitch is over but I'm hurting today. Probably because of valentines day and the thought that she is happy with someone else. I know it shouldn't bother me and it's petty, but if i'm alone and hurting, she should be too... at least for now.

Jim, i'm doing ok personally. In the best shape of my life, still doing a ton of activities, work is going great. I feel like the best person I have ever been and I wish W cared enough to look and see .

I hope everyone is having a very nice Valentines withwhat ever they may be up to today.