I cannot accept that this is it.

[Little]

I used to get antsy about wanting to text my WAS, but then I realized it's satisfying to let him text me first and ignore him. LOL.

[25yearsmlc]

Billman,

Bad news and good news.

The bad news is you have a lot of issues that are yours and yours alone, and you need to own them.

You were vague about what role you played in the marital challenges you face, but you played a huge role. You need to see this asap.

No more glossing over your flaws and skimming them to get BACK to hers, b/c she is not here trying to save the marriage. You are. So STOP focussing on her, today. ONLY focus on you.

The GOOD NEWS is that all this means you are NOT POWERLESS to repair things, b/c you only control you, and you are the lynchpin to repairing most of the problems in the marriage, b/c most of them are related to your behaviors.

By your own admission, you lack a lot of self awareness. You said you did "not know" or were "not aware" that you have major temper/anger issues AND that you are have an anxiety disorder AND that you a re controlling. You had to have her or others point it out. That's troubling. So start by dealing with that and it does require professional help.

Are you in treatment for any of these issues?
Okay, now to your post...

let me say up front, your marital history was quite often very self serving.

You seem to have double standards that allow you to do things that always have a wordy confusing explanation, which absolves you of responsibility or minimizes your culpability.

Yet you assume the worst about her behaviors and intentions AND you let yourself off the hook on almost everything, but blame her (or OW or life's unfairness I guess) for a lot.

I tell you this NOT To berate you but because You do it, at your peril. If you TRULY want to save your marriage, you must change this behavior - asap.

Just want to vent a bit.

If venting calms you, do it. But if it makes you more angry or keeps you stuck in victimhood, avoid it.

I had to realize that most, not all but most of my venting was NOT helping ME. My anger was consuming me, (not h, only me).

I find myself thinking of ways to get this affair over with.

STOP THAT NOW. Instead, work on yourself. Stop all the CONTROLLING BEHAVIORS. Do you see them better now? I hope you will learn to see it more with our help. But this drive of yours to control everything she does just screams out at me throughout your posts. Stop it. Look in the mirror if you MUST DO something and work on you.

I know that there is no guarantee I will "win her back" if that does happen. But I feel like I need to have hope and faith that we can be a good family, and a loving one if we can get through this.

No walk away spouse returns to marriage they left, UNLESS they come to believe,

that marriage to their spouse, can be better/different than before.

It's YOUR JOB TO SHOW HER THAT it can be better/different than before and you do that one way and one way only... You Demonstrate changes in you, to get there.
Stop the rest of all the manipulations and controls b/c that is MORE OF THE SAME and you have to back off and stop that. Read the books asap and talk to a counselor to get this through to you, b/c the more YOU DO to control or influence her, the worse YOU MAKE IT.

The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.

Your choices have NOT gotten you to a good place, Billman. So try to listen to us and read the books and learn from your mistakes; unfortunately my sense is you want to repeat the same mistakes that got you here. But more of that stuff will not help you.


I understand that my needs right now are to grow and heal, but I am having a hard time with these emotions and thoughts. I know what the right things are to do, but I find myself thinking of what I could do or try to "speed" things up. Then I calm down and realize I must not do anything. It's an endless pattern. I need help controlling it.

We can only do so much here. You need professional help. Are you getting it? It's not a shameful thing; and you would not be alone in needing it.

I cannot wait until the book arrives, to occupy my time more and learn to do the right thing.

Hey Billman, I feel like I had to PRY out the less flattering facts from you in your story. For future reference that isn't really going to help you, b/c it slows down our search for what will help you the most.

When you say you were raped, you better be careful using that term b/c rape victims I know, would object. They'd object b/c they'd say your story was pretty incredible.

They'll wonder how you could be "totally passed out & unconscious" AND produce a child - AND not know that for years,

and they may argue that even if all of that^^^ were true, (which defies most beliefs about conception) they'd still wonder about the whole set up in the first place. (Basically, "what were you thinking???" comments would be made, I think).

Even now, you have not come out and said "oh btw I have a child out of wedlock for whom I pay child support, which is money my own family could have used..".

Instead, the tough parts of the story came out in a piece meal fashion that was very confusing to read. . Making it hard to decode makes it look more suspect
Do you get what I'm saying there?

When I asked you why there were trust issues, you said you did not know why.

Billman, you need to work on self awareness or you won't understand how your actions are viewed by others. And as long as you pretend to not know, or really don't learn how to see yourself objectively, you risk more heartache.

You need to know, for instance, that burning the sheets looks batchit crazy to the rest of the world. But you did it. It also could have your custody rights affected.

So I would urge you to SLOW DOWN and take a deep breath (or 50) and THINK a lot more before you do another thing like that. Don't trust YOUR instincts right now...your emotions are not helping you.

When your emotions get you in trouble, you have to stop letting them decide things for you, while expecting them to solve the problems. Remember the definition of insanity is doing the same behaviors again, but expecting different results...
I think the more you own your problems and take responsibility for them, the more likely you are to get your wife back.

Also you said you have no friends except for her.Thats not good news for either of you.
Making and keeping friendships active, requires investing in others. So having no friends but her, doesn't flatter you. It makes it look as if you don't make the effort (which is also sort of how she describes your parenting) . I Highly recommend you read the book "Co-dependent No More" and "The Five Love Languages", which I think all couples should read. (Read them after you finish the DB book(s).)

Having no friends other than your wife is also Not healthy for either of you.
That is way too much pressure to put on a spouse. It means they must fill ALL YOUR SOCIAL and EMOTIONAL needs. We are responsible for our own happiness and self esteem. (Seriously, we are and we always were).

No ONE Person can do all that, or should. It's not healthy and it must have smothered her.

Do you see that now?

So now lets get back to YOU. What problems do YOU want to work on, in you?

[Mozza]

How long does nothing take, for the points to matter? if there is a "time".

How I wish I knew this! I've been asking this question too in my conversation, but there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. You definitely seem to be way too early though. I'd expect that she will start reaching out to you, at least a little. A friend told me: "You'll know when it's time" Perhaps he's right, but that's not very precise either.

I suspect it's enough time for two processes to run their course. First, your wife has to de-escalate her negative feelings for you. At first, she wants out and far. All she'll give you is rejection. Then she'll feel a little less bruised and become less sensitive to your presence. She may see you as you are, not as you were. Second, you need to be in a better place where you have a life and you detach. It's almost impossible to bear this thought in the beginning, but I'm starting to understand that it's the only healthy way to get back together. If people tell me this, I resist, but I can see how it applies to other people. See what I mean? ;-)

Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment.

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Since there is a protective order on you, don't risk more legal action against you or losing custody rights to your kids,

b/c your tendencies are to "make things happen" and those emotions are not guiding you to good choices. Back off b/c you should and b/c you MUST.

You need to be doing 180s, ( a term from the book that is fairly self explanatory)

which are NEW and DIFFERENT behaviors that show you are changing AND that your wife's reasons for leaving you (her justifications) are no longer valid.

You want to counter her negative images of you with new positive different images. Make sense? Don't fuel the negatives more, contrast them with the new you. Get her to second guess herself by NOT pushing her to come around your way.

Be The Billman who backs off for real She said she felt smothered and I believe her. She won't ever examine her choices if you are constantly making her defend them.

Here are the "Newbie Rules" that are mere guidelines, b/c there is no one size fits all. But for now, try to live by these til you get a DB coach and know what approach you are going to take.

I reduced them and laminated them and carried them around for months...


1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

***17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.

21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.

39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is freeing.

[billman12]

I used to get antsy about wanting to text my WAS, but then I realized it's satisfying to let him text me first and ignore him. LOL.

I have not had Any contact with her in any context direct or indirect since the day I went to jail. I also have no idea if she has thought about it or not. Some of me expected her to say..something on the 14 (our ten year date), but I have still heard Nothing from her, no tried contact at all. - I have no intention of trying so either. I believe it is in the best interest for her to make first contact - regardless of how long this takes.

[25yearsmlc]

I used to get antsy about wanting to text my WAS, but then I realized it's satisfying to let him text me first and ignore him. LOL.

I have not had Any contact with her in any context direct or indirect since the day I went to jail. I also have no idea if she has thought about it or not. Some of me expected her to say..something on the 14 (our ten year date), but I have still heard Nothing from her, no tried contact at all.

This is^^^ still all about HER. Billman, get off of the topic of HER and onto the topic of you.

Please reply to my post.


- I have no intention of trying so either. I believe it is in the best interest for her to make first contact - regardless of how long this takes.

clearly

[25yearsmlc]

Don't skip the hard parts of this. It's HARD as he11 and we know that.

Ironically, this gut wrenching ordeal ended up being a huge blessing in my life, and I'm sure even now, a part of you knows that you could/should come out of this a much better, more aware & loving man.

(At least you'll have confronted the anger, the controlling parts and the anxiety ridden way of thinking that has contributed to you being here and NOT being at peace within.)

Those^^ are darn good things to achieve, and they're mandatory for you to have a good healthy loving marriage, with anyone...not to mention being a good father. NOTE*** no woman is unmoved by the loving interactions of her children with their father. Be the best most involved father you can be now, b/c your children need you more now than ever.

And yes, it's a turn on...do it b/c it's right, but it probably doesn't hurt to know that some women stay with their h's solely b/c they are 'Good fathers/providers".

The kids will share their experiences with you, with her so you don't have to worry that you are not going to be thanked or that your efforts will go unrewarded. They will be.


Justs don't shy away from the parts of this that make you the most uncomfortable. That's where the real work is.

Remember when I said "the real journey in life is an inward one." It is true.

But the only way through this, is through it.

ARE YOU READY?

[Maybell]

25, Do husbands value a great mother the way you say wives value a great father?

[25yearsmlc]

I can only hope, but I'm a woman so you'd have to ask the men around.

My husband told me before, (and I know he still feels this way) that if we were to ever split and he were to date an OW, if she did not take to the kids - and they to her, she'd be out the door. I felt the same about OMs.

I can only assume that a man values the mother of his children in some honorific way. I sure hope so. (I admit that there may not be the same "need" of parenting from a stepmother, b/c the kids have their own moms, but that's not really the question you asked).

I think it's safe to say that a "bad mother" would be considered pretty bad news.

[Card29]

It just depends from one guy to the next, but yes, I'd say most men value a great mother. In His Needs, Her Needs, Harley talks about the emotional need of domestic support, which includes childcare. Historically, this was a need of men and was met by women, almost exclusively. It was a not a need a women. Times have changed, and now women also greatly value a good father. But according to Harley, it is still slightly more important to men.