I cannot accept that this is it.

[Mozza]

Wow, billman12, I hope you measure your chance for getting such feedback and guidance. Even I find it useful to read. Hope you'll use it!

[billman12]

Wow, billman12, I hope you measure your chance for getting such feedback and guidance. Even I find it useful to read. Hope you'll use it!

i don't understand what you mean by this response. wait, do you mean that what is being said to me is excellent advice? I agree if that is what you meant. and I am reading it over and over to make sure I get it through.

[billman12]

I would also like some guidance on how to behave, respond, and talk to her when the times arise. What am I trying to convey to her in terms of what is happening, i mean if she asked me "how are you", i think i should say more than fine or good, but I believe that I should not over elaborate. what is the message I am trying to "convey" to her whether spoken or unspoken?

[Mozza]

i don't understand what you mean by this response. wait, do you mean that what is being said to me is excellent advice?

Yes, that's what I meant.

[25yearsmlc]

I would also like some guidance on how to behave, respond, and talk to her when the times arise. What am I trying to convey to her in terms of what is happening, i mean if she asked me "how are you", i think i should say more than fine or good, but I believe that I should not over elaborate. what is the message I am trying to "convey" to her whether spoken or unspoken?

The response IF SHE ASKS you about the marriage, is something like this:

"If I had it all to do over again, there are a lot of things I'd do differently."

^^^ This shows your willingness to change, but it does not make you a doormat. It also does not escalate the discussion.

For your general "attitude", you can say "I'm struggling with things but I know in the end, it'll all work out."

AND OR, "I'm doing alright, given the circumstances."

Essentially, you want her to see that YOU have had an awakening, which means that you know your life will improve b/c you are working on it & making changes.

Understand?

.

[25yearsmlc]

whatever you do, do NOT act as if you are a victim. (But I know your concern is you don't want to seem "too happy" b/c you think she will believe you are "just fine" with a divorce.)

But there is no way she'd really believe that. She won't believe you have done a total 180 and suddenly "don't care" about the marriage. IF you begin to wonder about it, it's b/c you are trying to convince yourself to pursue her and that's NOT called for at this time.

Back off - like she asked. Plus you have to show that you are not irrational or unstable. NO OFFENSE MEANT by that, but when a protective order is issued on you, it's something you need to deal with.

Okay?

[billman12]

Understand?

I believe so. I need to make these changes happen and she will see the on their own and/or through the kids. But I am making these changes for myself because they need to changed for me to be a better person with or without her.

If she brings up anything in regard to how I am or feel, or what is going on, do not be mean or rude, but vague, with a subtly of I would like things to be better, but respect her decision - no matter how much it hurts.

How does that sound?

[25yearsmlc]

Understand?

I believe so. I need to make these changes happen and she will see the on their own and/or through the kids. But I am making these changes for myself because they need to changed for me to be a better person with or without her.

If she brings up anything in regard to how I am or feel, or what is going on, do not be mean or rude, but vague, with a subtly of I would like things to be better, but respect her decision - no matter how much it hurts.

How does that sound?

Mostly great.

I think the part about "no matter how much it hurts" makes it sound as if you feel sorry for yourself, or see yourself as doing something sacrificial & noble.

But in reality

1) you have no choice but to accept her wishes. For one thing, there is a protective order in place, so you can't really "Fight" this. Moreover, Spouses no longer "give" a spouse a divorce (like the old days). Today, states grant divorces.

So the only only real option you have, is HOW you will go about doing it;

and besides, you now realize (b/c of the "awakening" you have had) that

2) you got yourself here by mistreating her, and or being clueless about control issues, anger mismanagement and an anxiety disorder.
The anxiety disorder probably manifested in yet more control issues, while the frustrations & anger probably showed up as more anger and or criticism.

SO INSTEAD,

I'd be more of a "wish I had treated you better b/c NOW I GET IT! NOW, and from this day forward, I'd be the husband you deserve and always wanted."

"And w, the thing is, I'm becoming that MAN now! And I'm the father of our children...SOooooo....."

[what you hope she realizes - is what you are really saying, which is....}

"So who better than I, should help you raise OUR children? And since I am now the man you always wanted me to be, why not make it work -- with ME?"

Billman, understand that Her fears now, are probably that if she takes you back again, you will do what you did in the past, and revert to your old ways. She can't do that again.

OR do what you did in the past, just not fixing things at all, to merely fake it well til she agrees.

Then you'll be your old self again, controlling her, micro managing, NEEDING, having no friends or hobbies and abdicating the parenting to her, OR micromanaging it. Remember

Your consistent changes, + sufficient TIME = changes she can believe in.


When all this^^^ happens, which does take TIME & consistent effort from you, the rest can fall in place.

Such as what she'll give up or modify to reassure you, and ways you both will keep tabs on how the marriage is going, etc.

On another note, here's a comment about GAL, I am paraphrasing.

"When someone says they can't GAL, b/c their other obligations hinder it, or whatever their reasons are, here is what they don't realize. They don't see how little they bring to the table for their WalkAway spouse.

Having zero interests outside the family & work, makes someone NOT a very interesting person. Whereas GAL means you are interestED in the world around you, and interestING to others.

People who won't GAL, are spectators in Life, not participants. Chances are a WAS wants a participant, and already regrets/resents what they've missed out on life."

Food for thought, yes?

So in short Billman, you need to Become a Man Only a Fool Would Leave...


Okay?

[Zues126]

First I want to pipe in about guys wanting their W to be a good mother. I think it's important, but it can cut both ways if guys feel like the kids are more important (or all important).

As for this sitch, trust 25, but be careful to read her words carefully about interacting with your W. remember, if it sounds like you are telling your W you've changed to get what YOU want it is controlling and pursuing. If you let her see that you've changed naturally it is better. Personally I let her see that I had realized the error of my ways, but didn't talk too much about my changes. She commented about those on her own not much later.

really get the point that this is ABOUT YOU, FOR YOU. In a perverse way you have no shot at a good relationship with you W until you can live without her. Sorry, there is no chance you can avoid the entire grieving process if you play your cards right. That's the 'bargaining' phase of acceptance. That's why it's so important to focus on you. The more you focus on you the better you'll feel. The more you focus on her the worse you'll feel.

Last point (i was going to post on my thread but maybe it's better here) is GAL. I had other critical 180s, and personally I thought GAL was overrated because I did a lot on my own before BD. But I've learned GAL is about something more important and relevant to your sitch- it is about you meetin your own needs. 25 said this, and it is so right. The more you meet your own needs the more you can do all of this: focus on you, let go of her, demonstrate change, and be a confident man she can admire. I'm assuming you have some fears/discomforts about having friends as that is unusual. Maybe start with a councelors to get help for that. Or another approach is to start in an area you are comfortable (if you are great at chess join a chess club so you have something in common and have a reason to feel confident).

Lots of advice, probably overwhelming. But make sure to follow sandis and 25's rules when you're interacting with W, and for when you're on your own take small daily steps. This isn't about your W anymore. It's a path you'll be on for you for the rest of our life. Welcome aboard, good luck, and may you find comfort soon.

[Maybell]

Zues, that was awesome.

Hope you're doing well.