my chance = HIS chance

[Lifes Twists]

MM,

How much do you value yourself?

Answer that and you will have the answer as to what you should do.

[claire7]

MM,
I think you hold onto these little crumbs he gives you because you are afraid that if you hold out for more, he will walk away. And I think you may be right. He doesn't seem ready to commit to you in a meaningful way, but likes you and the physical relationship enough to keep stringing you along since you allow it.

There are plenty of men in the world who would treat you like gold.

Perhaps you can't totally get him out of your life since you have a business together, but you can certainly have a business-only relationship with him.

I know you said he's trying and he's changed. But you are so focused on what he is or isn't doing with regards to you, and how you should play it so that he does what you want.

That doesn't sound healthy to me.

You want us to see it differently because you want it to BE different. No one wants to admit that something's wrong and they may need to step away.

and no one is saying he's evil.

But he really doesn't seem interested or able to give you what you want, and it seems to cause you a lot of anxiety and pain and self-doubt. You and he just don't seem to be on the same page. And at some point, you get to decide whether you are ok with what he is able to give you. If so, stop agonizing over every interaction. It is what it is right now. If not, pull back.

Honestly I don't think you are really ready to accept this.

Are you in IC?

[makingmagic]

Thx everyone for your comments.

First of all, I have accepted that he was a cheap LOOOOONG ago. Using business as an opportunity to get away is something that MANY business owners do, and we have not for a few years. He is wanting to take advantage of this again. Neither of us have been on any type of get away since before our BD. I am ok with this part.

Sandi ~ you are correct when you suggested that it did not make me feel special in the way he presented it to me. Apparantly, I am to read between the lines as it was OBVIOUS to him what his designs are. "some" work, nice dinner or casual dinner in our room, hang out, tv time, breakfast & country drive. I can assume "some" sex is implied too. However, getting laid? I dunno. Realistically, he doesn't need to go away for me to do that. He could attempt that here at home, and he has not. We fool around to a point, we take turns pleasuring each other. We have not had full sex. Its like we are both not going there.... for now. Maybe thats a commitment??

No he does not need to make a commitment with me to go away, but I do require some understanding if this was intended to be somewhat romantic. Recall, he has gotten EXTREMELY lazy in this area. YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD... yes, he is VERY frightened that I will run with this. He has mentioned this in the past. I know its a genuine fear of his.... PLEASE EXPAND HERE !!! What is the way past this feeling?

I agree... maybe it does make me feel cheap. I agree he needs to man up ALOT and make me feel truly WANTED. Yes, I can tell he does feel that way and right to the point of wanting to be living with me again (sometimes)... but he's chicken! I don't know what I am doing that he still feels like this.

ABSOLUTELY Right on again!!! BINGO... I cannot force him into anything anymore (I think he felt forced in our prev. relationship). Besides, I don't want to force him anymore... I want to know HE wants it all too. This new Xbf, will not be cornered or boxed into ANYTHING he doesn't want to do, he is very clear with that. When I have tried, he says I am wrecking the natural flow of things.

I don't understand what you mean when you say:

"You may wish you could put enough pressure on him that he would at least make you feel you were valuable enough that he won't let a "label" scare him down. I mean, seriously! I believe if you told him "no", he would say "Okay then, cheers!" and be gone on his own. Now, it may cause him to consider that MM has really changed and he needs to get a different game plan, IDK. " <<<<< can you explain again??

As for the tax write off comments... refer to my initial comments. I accept that he is cheap & this is an opportunity for us to get away. Period. He is a non-stop work aholic, always thinking ahead. He is the type of person who would stop at the bank on his way to his own funeral or wedding. His cheap and lazy way to offer a getaway is not suggesting that he does not want some quality time with me... to test & check out before he commits to a Miami business trip....LOL.

I too believe that IF I hold out for what I want, he would give it... eventually. I just can't seem to push it to that point.

As for him getting laid... that is OFF the table!! As mentioned we are not "there" anyway! We would not require a getaway to enable it either..... besides, I am no longer PMS'ing !!! So... thats that! I imagine it will be more of the same fool around, enjoy each others company, but now we can sleep in the same bed for a night bonus.

I AGREE... he is not clear because he does not want me to make more out of it.... but, whats so wrong with clarity & defining what we are? Why is this such an issue for him?

My friend suggested: That I am never going to be happy because I cannot accept taking it step by step and seeing how things go. He is offering what he is offering and I want more, not even considering how he feels at all.....(HMMM). He cannot reassure me if he is not sure himself, thats just him being honest. Lets see where this leads? nothing wrong with that. She thinks his approach is fair considering we have been apart for awhile. If it was a new relationship, new man.. would I want the same reassurances (NO)? She said that if I did, the guy would run for fear of being smothered......she has a point!!

I know he is not a new guy.... but he is scared much like you are in the beginning. We have been apart for a long time. Obviously a reason for the breakup in the first place. We are BOTH rebuilding, he is being cautious. Small steps at a time.

~~~~~~~~

I can see what she is suggesting.... I also see what the posters on the site say too... I do want to value myself MORE. I do not want to accept crumbs. I do want to see his part as baby steps/effort.

ITs a fine line. Tough call.

~~~~~~~~~

I have to run... more to comment later.

[ericmsant2]

Omg.

Then listen to your friend. Take it slow and let him lead. Accept whatever he can give be it crumbs or whatever you want to call it.

[makingmagic]

Eric... her opinion, is like yours... an opinion.... I didn't say I was following it (although my IC would agree to some of her points... as long as I found a way to value myself).

Like I said, I am going more on the base of how Matt suggested. .... "I want him in my life IF he wants the same thing that I do<<<< and because of feeling like this, I keep the door open...

but, at the same time if he is not willing to give me what I need, I will have no problem going elsewhere for it." <<<< I will come to this decision IF I do not see continual progress from him. At this time, I guess I still see it as progress (pool time, dates, drinks, hang out, dinners, his place, t-giving, offer for getaway) <<< these are things he has done.... without my lead.

I need him to lead! Leading shows me HIS invested interest.

Many of you see this as crumbs, at times... I do too. <<<< for this I THANK YOU!

Eric & others, let me ask... would you agree that I could go... IF... I hold my value, not have expectations, HAVE FUN, do things on MY terms AND reserve myself enough to test him in return.... Recall, I am interviewing him, as well. Fyi, he isn't passing with flying colours yet... I know this!

Eric... "having never really lost me"...you make a valid point... I am scared to test this.. not for his reaction, but for mine. It makes me mad, that it takes losing someone to realize what you have.

Claire... actually, the opposite... you think that I am fearing him walking away for good? not at all! I do feel that if I had enough balls/guts that I could toss him to the curb and within a short time, he would be sooooo sorry. However, I just don't have the strength/will/guts to do that. I don't want to HAVE to do that, to get his response. However, you are ABSOLUTELY right when you state "He doesn't seem ready to commit to you in a meaningful way, but likes you and the physical relationship enough to keep stringing you along since you allow it." ... ugh!

So, with that realized.... I do not want to be strung along... I want control of myself. Therefore I will do things on my terms... words like "we will see & maybe" come out of my mouth more often. & will continue!

This is where it gets fuzzy for me... my terms obviously are wishy washy and I come across as game playing. Yes, I enjoy any and all time with him so it is hard for me to pull back and harder to cut him off. Geez, I'm typically so easy going that I would enjoy organizing his paper clips just to be with him (as long as he was treating me right). So, I have a new list of things that I need to do... social list, activities, time spent with parents, DD, errands, etc.. his name is at the bottom. He needs to not be first anymore. If I am not his priority, then he should not be mine.

Claire... I love how you put the last post. Especially suggesting that other men would treat me like gold (this would be nice, thank you)... your point suggesting that things may not be right & needing to step away could be accurate. This is why I am "seeing how it goes" to ensure I get what I want TOO. I will not commit back to him either until I see him make permanent changes too. He just assumes that I am desperate to get back... I'm sure my responses/reactions show this too. I don't know how to be different, without it appearing as games. If I didn't agree to going away, it would have looked fake from me at this point anyway.

Yes, I have said he is "trying" and is "changing"... he is not changed yet. You are also right, I am still focused on it all too much. Hmmm... still not healthy. I agree we are not on the same page anymore. At some point I will determine if it is enough... at this time, it is what it is (and I am trying to just accept THAT for now)... As you said, if it is not... pull back <<< I do this a little even now. Trying to hold off a bit..(I see myself doing this more within a few months). I am working towards accepting this! Thanks for pointing it out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OH.. tonight he made a comment to our friendly associate that "MM used to like X about him" and I was quick and said "if XBf would work a little harder, he may just impress me again to get X from me". He smirked, impressed with my quick witty comment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, tomorrow morning starts our journey. I will hold the context of VALUING MYSELF, reservation, and FUN (all while interviewing him secretly without putting pressure or a damper on our time out). He better be on his best behaviour!!

[sandi2]

"You may wish you could put enough pressure on him that he would at least make you feel you were valuable enough that he won't let a "label" scare him down. I mean, seriously! I believe if you told him "no", he would say "Okay then, cheers!" and be gone on his own. Now, it may cause him to consider that MM has really changed and he needs to get a different game plan, IDK. " <<<<< can you explain again??

I was referring to him asking you why you had to put a label on it. You would prefer he clarify it so that you could find "closure" instead of analyzing it to death.......however, no matter how much you want him to value you......even to the point of you pressuring him into giving this trip a name or category or label......he won't do it. You want him to value you so much that it overcomes any fear he has of labeling a trip or relationship. (Your persistence is the same as pressure to him.). If you tell him you won't go (trying to pressure him into valuing you enough to step up), I think he would rather choose to say "Cheers" and leave without you. He would do it before he would man up and give you a decent answer to your request about how to categorize this overnight trip. He just wants you to agree to going without him having to call it anything. He would do without your company before he satisfied you with a glimmer of hope about the future. He does not want to be hooked.

Hope that explains it better.

Look MM, it doesn't matter how much we want you to keep your dignity and hold out till he cries "uncle", it is what makes you feel right.....happy....and cherished. If this man does it for you, then it is your free choice to do whatever you want. You don't have to do what we want you to do. I think you have grown just enough to want what you deserve.....which is respect. You want the man you love to show you some freaking respect!!! Why does it seem so hard for him to do? Everyone wants to feel they are valuable to the people they love most in the world. It is not too much to expect. Neither should it be compromised......nor sacrificed. Did you hear that, MM? Do not sacrifice your self value for his love.....b/c if he really loves you then he should value you. That is what love truly is, don't you think? And if it is just his way of loving......then ask the question, "At what price?". How much are you willing to pay for his way of loving? If getting his love costs you your self worth (dignity, value, respect) are you willing to pick up the tab?

[claire7]

MM,

I am totally on board with Sandi:

Look MM, it doesn't matter how much we want you to keep your dignity and hold out till he cries "uncle", it is what makes you feel right.....happy....and cherished. If this man does it for you, then it is your free choice to do whatever you want. You don't have to do what we want you to do

I feel like everyone on your thread has been trying to convince you of something... and you spend a lot of time trying to convince US of something else. But you don't need to convince us. I wonder if you feel that, if you convince us to change our opinions, then it will validate you and your relationship. Like, you ask for suggestions, but instead of agreeing and following the overwhelmingly similar response from everyone who responds, you defend and try to persuade. Because you want it to be ok. I get that.

But it is ok.

I don't think that what you say will do much to change my opinion. But my opinion doesn't matter, does it?

If this R is working for you, if you are comfortable with your choices and actions, then that is what matters.
Good luck to you.

[makingmagic]

HI Sandi & Claire:

Sandi ~ thank you for your explanation... I do understand it better now. Yes, I would prefer closure so that I could stop analyzing it to death. Even tho I understood what he was doing and what the overnight was to him, I didn't want to assume. I get your point, although he would not have gone... he still would not give me that inch....

He does not want to be hooked....nope, not yet! Why??? Why do the good stuff but not want the label? I don't get this. I know he wants more (eventually). To him, this is us going slow.

I do want his respect.

Claire ~ Im not sure I understand. I feel I agree for the most part & clarify the truth for the other part. I don't fee/think l I am trying to convince anyone of anything...other than more truth. Please point out where I am doing this? Also where I ask for suggestions, I feel I do agree again... please show me? Please also show me where I am not following with the responses?

I have been clear that I intend on "seeing how things go" a little while longer to "see" and allow him the time/space to follow his lead. Throughout this, I will learn to value myself & not accept the crumbs. I am somewhat comfortable... for now. However, I am WATCHING & learning along the way. I will not accept a non-defined relationship for very long.... just long enough to treat it as a "new" relationship and "see" where it goes, naturally.

Thanks again...

~~~ I could really use some direction/advice on how to BE during the next 24 hours on this overnight stay. I want to enjoy myself but I have been putting pressure on myself because of these last few posts. What is the best way to get my control back? ... did I lose it?

[Starsky309]

If this R is working for you, if you are comfortable with your choices and actions, then that is what matters.
Good luck to you.

This is what I tried telling MM a month ago.

As usual, she didn't listen.


Starsky

[ericmsant2]

Then listen to your friend. Take it slow and let him lead. Accept whatever he can give be it crumbs or whatever you want to call it.

I'm with ya Starsky....

MM, he is what you want..accept him the way he is and just go and try and be happy. No one here can change your bf. No one. Not even you. so why not just go be happy. Life is really to short.

I'm out...peace.