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Shakspr #2497478 10/16/14 05:30 AM
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Thanks for posting on my thread. I added a post. Check it out.

As big strong confident men its amazing how much power we give to the woman in our lives. We sometimes don't even realize it but just assume they know best about family, house, etc. when the day comes where we define out identity, self worth, and our own happiness by their opinion of us...that's just not good. That's codependency to the core. Problem is no one will ever love us enough to fill a bottomless hole, and we can't be true to ourselves if we're walking on eggshells trying to earn the approval of others.

This whole good day/bad day stuff is no good. Sorry bro, I have a feeling it's about to get rockier. I don't see your W suddenly recommitting to the M. Not a bet, just have a feeling she's going to go much further before she thinks about returning. I think this relationship is gone, and even if there is chance for a new one it will be long down the road and only if you're a different person. The 'you' you feel like today will lose her and there's no getting around that grief. I hope I'm wrong and she tells oh at counseling that she can make some adjustments and work through this, but her roller coaster, social engagements, and actions towards you tell me she's checked out to a large degree. I hope this comes out clearly soon because I know first hand nothing is worse than Wondering what she'll do. Want you to truly let it go and just run your life with pride and virtue.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2497481 10/16/14 06:27 AM
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lostluv Offline OP
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"I don't see your W suddenly recommitting to the M. Not a bet, just have a feeling she's going to go much further before she thinks about returning. I think this relationship is gone, and even if there is chance for a new one it will be long down the road and only if you're a different person"

I don't see her suddenly committing either, I would not want her to (you know what I mean) because I don't want to go through any of this again. I'm sure she will probably go further and that's the part that hurts. I'm REALLY hoping we can remain living together while we "work" on things....or at least stabilize. it crushes me to even think about her not living here....mostly because of my daughter. I do not want to put her through that if we don't HAVE to. right now, i don't see the reason to. she has said that she doesn't want to be divorced (a month or so ago) and I'm hoping she means that.
as for this relationship being over....at first I took that very offensively to be honest, but as I started to think about it....I'm glad "this" (meaning the old) relationship is over .... I don't want us to be the way we used to be if it wasn't what we wanted or we weren't happy. I told her in our last session "I don't want our relationship back, i want us to have a better one with each other using the knowledge we have now" **or something real similar**
she told me in June that she was ready to check out, and that's when all of this started coming out.
the suspense is definitely bothersome!!! However, at this point I THINK part of me would rather hear "I don't know what I want yet" than "it's over, i want out", yet part of me may want to hear the later. I'm extremely scared about the later....because I feel like it would trigger my cold/bitter side and that alone makes me want to start crying (even as I'm typing now). I truly love her with all my heart and know that somewhere deep inside of her is a glimmer of hope. I just need to quit pushing her away so she can relax and re-discover it.
Typically I'm the first one to cry in counseling. we have frequently talked about the issues that led up and how my wife has serious forgiveness issues and is holding onto resentment. the counselor was originally working on that with my wife and basically said at some point she will have to forgive me (but not forget) in order to start working on us. one session the counselor asked her in the beginning if she was still mad and if her heart was softening....my wife snapped pretty hard at the counselor and told her she is tired of having her feelings minimized and feeling put down. the counselor explained that it was no way intentional and she apologized and said she would never intentionally make her feel belittled .

anyways, the next session (our last one) is when I suggested that rather than a weekly session, we try bi-weekly because i wanted to reduce the pressure on my wife. I think it surprised the wife a bit, but I think it also gave soem slight relief. not sure if that would have been considered a 180, but for that whole session I pretty much validated my wife's feelings and tried to take the focus off of HER.
I'm really trying to GAL but working 3rd shift is a bit harder. i'm somewhat scared to do TOO much away from home because one of my wife's original complaints was I'm not there for her enough, I didn't support her, she felt like a single parent, etc.


me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


lostluv #2497483 10/16/14 06:47 AM
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i can definitely sympathize with the juggling act of working third shift and trying to GAL. i also understand the whole "you weren't there for me and the family". it's quite a balancing act to DB and the 180 of being there for the family. praying for you bro. in some respects, the lag (time between bomb drop and action) is the toughest. although knowing that the executioner's axe is coming down isn't a cake walk either.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

bravo61 #2497490 10/16/14 07:46 AM
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lostluv Offline OP
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so I'm reading DR and just finished the 4th chapter. I wrote down three fairly simple, short term goals and then the "signs" that would show there was progress..... then I dtermined the best time to approach my wife to "ask" for the goals. I was feeling pretty confident about where this was going. then I got to the part that said, now don't ask. your relationship isn't ready. so I was like WTF? and the next sentence basically said that I was probably wondering why I was told to do all that if I wasn't going to use it ..... it's like the book is reading my mind hahaha

on a side note, I'm looking at some of the timelines on people's signatures and see that i have a very youn gmarriage (4 yrs) and most of your guys situations happened relatively quickly from the first day until papers were filed or they were physically separated. that was giving me some slight hope thinking that I may be slightly ahead of the game ..... and then I read Bravo61's sig.... the bomb day is very close to mine and papers were delivered just last week. ugh.

but I'm not letting that stop my positive thinking yet!!!! she has not filed, and I do not believe she has seen a lawyer, let alone talked to one. She has yet to "decide" what she "wants".

now I'm thinking on here again, but it's better than telling my wife the following:

i'm really hoping tomorrow she at LEAST agrees to avoid separation right now. worst case, i can get yet another hobby or do other things in the evenings if she wants more time to herself....or I can just spend most of my time in the basement working out, online, or playing music. and if I want to play with my daughter, i can let her ride her bike around in the basement or help her practice her "gymnastics" in the basement on my mats. i'm determined to make it and to do it by avoiding separation. I know most of you have done the separation, but I do not feel we could reconcile after an extended separation. Maybe I will change my thought, but right now I feel the only reason she would have to be completely separated is to see other men or to try to meet someone new and justify it's "ok" because we are "separated".

i'm sure you have all been there, and hoped for the same. maybe I'm just still delusional frown I'm trying to hold on to hope here ......


me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


lostluv #2497492 10/16/14 08:37 AM
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lostluv Offline OP
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ok, i'm still reading in between working (shhh, don't tell my boss)
anyway, instead of dreading the outcome of our next session, i've decided to use the "act as if" technique as used in chapter six when michele refers to her plane ride home "knowing" that her husband is going to be grumpy.
Can't hurt to try. because if I go into our session acting depressed, down, anxious, and miserable..... even if she was considering saying somehting positive, I may trigger her into being pushed away.

so I guess that sort of leads me to the next idea as well, "try something different" ....


by now you are probably thinking * great, he is going to give us a play by play while reading this book *

not really, I'm just trying to log my thoughts, idea's and progress on this board to maintain my positive attitude.

it's all therapeutic right?


me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


lostluv #2497499 10/16/14 10:45 AM
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Lost, this is very tough. I can see how much it hurts and how scary it is. I do believe you are doing your best. But you HAVE to make some changes here. You are the opposite of detached. You are holding on so tight it is painful. Here's the thin about DBing...it is for YOU. It is NOT about controlling her. I know you're thinking, "I thought the point of DB was to salvage the M!'
I don't feel that way anymore. Ill be the first to admit I was controlling in my M, couldn't stand the thought of life without her, and when i realized i couldnt control her directly anymore i read DB/DR trying to find a way to control her ndirectly through my behavior. That's just not going to work.

As long as you NEED the R to work out you ate not in a good spot. Why?

-you will automatically fixate on YOUR needs and pain, and automatically minimize/dismiss/misunderstand your Ws needs and pain.
-you wont grow as a person. This is because you will avoid taking accountability for your own behavior that drive her away.
-you will be weak and needy. You can act as if and I'm glad you are, but the reality is clear. You have no idea how much comes through in body language, instant reactions, etc.
-it will HURT more

I've read all your posts. You really aren't in the right ball park as to understanding your Ws feelings. Read my thread. My W said she was 'checked out' as well. What followed was a four month alcohol binge, several affairs, and a suicide attempt. God knows I don't want that for her or you, but the fact you still want to say 'sorry, we can work on this honey' just shows you don't understand he magnitude of what you're up against.

Bottom line, you need to make some big personal changes in your heart and attitude. Detach and let it go. Don't kill someone you used to love (you can't love her now because you don't even know her, she is NOT who you think she is, qui trying to force her to be). Let her find out who she is. You find out who you are without her and work on making that person strong, healthy, etc. you can do that. All this about "I don't know if I could forgive separation" is more control. You may feel it is true, but that just shows how controlling/needy/dependent you are. Learn to take care of yourself.

So specifically, let go, stop controlling. In your posts focus on talking about any insights you had on how you messed up, how that made her feel, and how you're using those lessons to make 180s for YOU to be a better man in your next R. Don't make changes just for her, they won't stick. And don't think it gives you the right to expect her to forgive you. Please read my post. There's one by 25 where she copy/pasted a quote from a WAW about why she didn't accept her Hs changes. Please read it. It's obvious to me you were very controlling and your growth at this point is still trying more of the same. Better let go before you get hurt worse and crush any chance left. You can't force her back, but you can force her away.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
lostluv #2497501 10/16/14 10:48 AM
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lostluv Offline OP
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just purchased "no more mr. nice guy" as well. it has been recommended in my thread as well as many other threads and I have always been "the nice guy" ..... can't hurt.

is it considered a 180 that I've read several books in the past couple months when I only ever completed two books cover to cover in my first 40 years? or does it make me pathetic?

books I've read so far:
1. love busters
2. his needs, her needs
3. the 5 love languages
4. Divorce busting
5. divorce remedy (reading now)
6. give and take
7. fall in love, stay in love (half way done)
8. Half water - science fiction that my friend wrote (on amazon)
9. Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia of bodybuilding (half way - rest is pretty much reference material)
10. my wife doesn't love me anymore


dang, I didn't realize I read that many !!

you would think I would have the knowledge of an expert about relationships.....yet mine is not good.....YET!!!! wink

Last edited by lostluv; 10/16/14 10:49 AM.

me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


Zues126 #2497504 10/16/14 10:59 AM
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lostluv Offline OP
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Zues....I know it sounds harsh, but thanks for taking away all of my PMA

I'm working on the detaching. I admit is is very hard for me. i'm doing MUCH better now than I was ....and it will get better. I can't do it over night. a lot of what I type here never makes it to my wife. i come here to vent and release so I don't do anything stupid. I don't feel I'm controlling her, i definitely tried in the beginning and it majorly backfired.

i did EVERYTHING wrong in the beginning ...which is pretty normal. I have been making changes...slowly but surely.

Last edited by lostluv; 10/16/14 11:02 AM.

me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


lostluv #2497508 10/16/14 11:16 AM
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Now you're using controlling techniques on me. You're acting hurt and blaming it me to try control my behavior and that of others to steer us towards what you want. Only you control your PMA.

If you want everyone to tell you great job for doing your best that's fine. Just ask us to. When your divorced just reread our cheer leading, I'm sure it will make you feel better.

Why am I so sure? If you read both my threads you'll see I did/said he same things. I was used to acting sad/depressed when hurt to manipulate others. I saw that in my posts. I owned it. Not only am I (gradually) becoming less controlling, but I AM NO LONGER DEPRESSED. The only reason I hurt so much because I had learned it was a way to get what I wanted. Stop the controlling behavior, stop the hurting, suddenly I felt better.


Me:38 XW:38
T:11 years M:8 years
Kids: S14, D11, D7
BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Zues126 #2497523 10/16/14 12:40 PM
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lostluv Offline OP
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My intensions were not to control you. I'm not acting hurt to blame you. I was just saying my positive attitude was being brought down by your negative response. I'm not the best at communicating / interpreting so maybe I misunderstood ? I just felt like I was being told that a divorce is inevitable so I might as well just face it and accept it.

I am not acting sad and hurt to manipulate others. I am working on me, and trying to accept things as they are. Detaching without feeling like I've given up is very hard.....we all know that. I've owned what I've done but I can't change the past. I can only move forward from here.

I, simply trying to avoid separation unless it is absolutely necessary. Like I said before, if she decides she still wants to be separated we will deal with it. I just feel like I would be a door mat if I just left. She has never feared me and I have never abused her in any way. I did take her for granted and I have openly admitted that. I have no doubts she would make it on her own. She is a very intelligent woman with masters degree in her field and a decent a career. She is an amazing mother as well.

If worst case happens, I have no doubts I would make it on my own and be fine....but opening my heart would be a near impossible challenge.

I didn't mean I wouldn't forgive a separation, I meant I don't think I could forgive one if it was just to see other people, Maybe there is someone else right now.....maybe not. Yes I consider the possibilities, but that is normal given the situation.

Right now I have the gift of time and I intend on using it. I'm not holding anywhere near as tight as I was for the first couple months.

I cannot control her, I get that. I don't think I'm trying to. I am controlling me and how I act around her. I am changing to prepare myself but absolutely am hoping for a better outcome than worst case.

I apologies for any misunderstanding.


me-42
w-33
d-3
together-6
m-4yr
6/1/14-w check out
6/15/14-EA?
8/1/14-mc
9/1/14-IDLY-started DBing
9/15/14-w suggest separation
10/17/14 wife is done
12/13/2014 - wife move out
me file 1/1/15


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