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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
Oh, it's going to be good, regardless.

Took a tough blow tonight from D21. She's telling me how she thinks I should handle counseling et al w/ siblings. Says she was subjected to much abuse from me and W and that coupled with a history of abuse and divorce in the family, we should have the kids in counseling early and often.

I'm happy she trusts me enough to tell me this stuff, but since I only agree with about 25% of it, how the heck do I simultaneously validate her and tell her to butt out. She's a blamer and a lasher. I am stymied at how to even begin. Fortunately she blasted all this via text, and she accepted my request for time to respond.

Just, ugh. I wonder if this will ever end. Makes me understand the motivations of the hardcore MLC'er!


Is this your D together with XW or her D or your D?

If you drop the labels you have on her, is there truth to what she says?

Maybe you could have a conversation where you hear her out, if you haven't already. Listen and validate what's true, let the rest go. Don't argue with her, just hear her.

About the advice, you could thank her for her insight and tell her you'll take it under consideration and then do that. She might have insight you don't.

I think medic in the military is a good career choice, it's been the starting point for many careers and it's training for civilian job.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Originally Posted By: BigMac
Thats a tough one. It's been interesting looking at the female psychology of how they don't like to leave one relationship before lining up a new one.

Fear of being alone is strong in these women.


What women specifically?

As I recall, Shakes W was from an abusive background and got into abusive Ms. It's not surprising that without help working on the abuse stuff that she gets into new Rs so quickly. It's the baggage we talked about early on when I asked why Shake was drawn to her.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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This is the D who was born after my W was assaulted. I adopted her at age 9.

She has been the source of much strife, and it is very difficult to hear what she has to say without having an emotional response. She simply makes people uncomfortable because she constantly seethes. When that much negativity oozes out of someone, the validity of their statements doesn't hold a lot of credence.

Her accusations that we abused her and didn't get her the help she needs is true from her POV. She was not physically abused as a child. My wife's parenting style can sometimes be oppressive. I was sometimes drawn into that because I felt stuck between choosing to agree with my W or simply ignore the problems (I know, there are other options.)

Additionally, while she says we didn't get her the help she needs for her depression... well, 1.5 years of counseling and she only got worse. I know, many have been in therapy for years. I did the best that I could and there is a limit to my financial resources. We loved her and supported her more than she is able to recognize. It saddens me tremendously that she feels the way she does.

So, I will attempt to hear her out, validate as much as I can, and chart a path forward.

I won't let my ego get in the way. Just because I'm tired of doing the heavy lifting doesn't mean the job is done.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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After she was assaulted, does that mean rape? Sorry, I don't remember the whole story.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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labug. Yep. Stranger (day laborer) broke into her uncle's house where she was staying alone. He got 10 years probation and time served (which, in itself, was a tragedy). It was a landmark DNA case.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Very, very sad and damaging for everyone.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Jul 2014
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Originally Posted By: Shakspr
I could give the whole story but here's the bottom line. My home is a happier place when she's not in it. Inserting her personality into a crisis is like pouring gasoline on a dumpster fire.


Raliced is right... 21 is the age of blaming parents. Very similar to MLCers blaming LBS for all their woes.

I use my ninja DBing skills to deal with my boomerang S23. I also use Al-Anon techniques. My S has been much more supportive than your D21 has been, no gasoline on a fire, not at all. But he's not the best roomie, he makes terrible life decisions (didn't respond right away to a job offer for excellent pay and lost it, etc), and I really think he should be on his own by now.

I do not ask him what he is doing with his life, or if he applied for any better-paying jobs, or if he paid that parking ticket he got last week, etc., because that is none of my business. (Thank you, AL-ANON and Byron Katie.) No ultimatums, no unsolicited advice.

These things, however, ARE my business:

1) Is he a good renter? (I charge him about half of what it would cost to rent a room in our town). Does he abuse our property or does he respect it?

2) Is he a good roommate? Does he abuse his roommate and our neighbors or does he respect them?

Your D21 sounds like she is not a good roommate.

When my S broke agreements, was messy, didn't pay rent, etc., I told him he was not being a good roommate and I thought he would be happier living with someone else. I asked him what he needed to do to find another living arrangement and move out. He started working on it, complaining vociferously! Ultimately he decided to be a better roommate.

Our lives are much smoother than they were. Sometimes he asks for advice. I give it but then tell him I have every confidence he will figure it out on his own, and then I let it go. That's hard to do and sometimes I mess up. No biggie. Just as long as I get on track again.

Sometimes he just wants to tell me something without me offering advice. Also hard for me to do.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Thanks, all. Like most of us, I typically don't air more dirty laundry than I feel I need to. These days I feel like Paul Harvey..."and that's the rest of the story..."

labug, thanks for the support, again. Your words gave me a compass - I already have the map. I'm getting stronger and I am done just throwing up my hands. The answer is love. The answer is roll up my sleeves. The answer is do what must be done to the best of my ability. I am fighting not only for my marriage, but for my very family. If I fail, it will be because I am in the grave.

I only wish D21 would use her medic/EMT training as a springboard. I encouraged her to do so when she dropped out of college, but have since backed off. She does best when she figures things out for herself.

Nitty, I moved D21 out of my home the weekend before my W moved out. That was a relief. Whether or not she can go on affording her apt is on her. The other children were also complaining about her openly to me and W. It's not just my own distorted "parent of adult children" lens that views D21 this way.

Today is going to be a good day. I can make that happen. 7 hours, 45 minutes until I see my children. YEAH!!!


Last edited by Shakspr; 10/29/14 03:18 PM.

Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Shakespr -

First of all - from reading the backstory - you and your family have had a lot on your plate for many years. I admire you all for your perseverance.

May I add one timid thought re D21? I remember you sharing some of your personal history - and frankly it sounds like you are a pull yourself up by the bootstraps, super overachieving type of guy. Your XW has obviously overcome a lot of hardship as well. Not everyone is like that - and I know of several families where the parents have had to overcome significant hardship in their lives and their children struggle to meet that very high bar.

Just a thought.


2 Ds: 7 and 4
BD and Sep: 7/14
Divorce Final 2/16
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Prayers to you Shake! 7 and counting.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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