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Mozza Offline OP
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Hello all. Reading through this forum convinced me to register and participate. I'm impressed by the wisdom of many commenters and feel that I could benefit and could, perhaps, contribute. It's good to find other people thinking through all of this. This post will be my background story, so forgive the length.

Me: 39 W: 34
D: 6.5 D: 3
M: 9.5 years

9/4/2014: First mention of separation
9/11/2014: I relent and accept that she will leave.
9/20/2014: She moves out of the apartment.

My W caught me by surprise when she announced that she wanted a separation and that it was too late to fix anything. She was tired of my criticism and she needed to find her true self, far from my influence. She wanted her freedom and it couldn't be achieved within the family. She gave me her version of ILYBINILWY. She didn't want her kids to think that one has to stay in an unhappy marriage and they'll adapt to anything anyway.

For a week, I begged and pleaded. Then, I came across some DB-like advice and decided to get out of the way: I relented. It all happened quickly and nine days later she was in her own apartment. Her parents are well off and paid for the move, the furniture, the rent, etc. In the meantime, I slipped several times, asking for reassurance, attention, sex. Once she left, it became easier.

The understanding is that "all options are open, but we shouldn't base our lives on this". D is never mentioned.

There were a few triggers. First, she started a job at a start-up a month before she left. She found there people who valued and complimented her. It's the kind of place with a live-in dog, chess boards, Playstations, social clubs, drinks at the office on Friday afternoon, etc. She bonded with her colleagues who are younger, free, fun, etc. She was happy at work and not at home. Second, a long-divorced friend came to stay with us for 5 days and told her that I'm not good enough for my W, that her divorce was a liberation for her. Two days later, my wife asked for a separation.

I have lost at least 15 pounds and I was already skinny. I cry several times a day and I sleep 5-6 hours a night. I see a therapist who's helping me work out why I was pushing away the W that I love so much. We're not there yet. W sees a therapist for some 7 months now (she takes antidepressants) and says that she doesn't talk about the separation with her friends.

We share the kids every other week. They take the whole thing in strides.

All of our interactions are positive. I play by the book: I don't contradict her, I avoid R talks, I don't question her, initiate communications, cry or say that I love her and want her back, etc. She reaches out to me several times a week and not just about logistics. She shares her difficulties from the separation (insomnia, anxiety, sadness, loneliness, etc.) but remains steadfast.

QUESTIONS

When can I re-initiate contact and start the courtship? Our contact is good already, no fights or even negative talks since she left. Am I supposed to wait that she reinitiates by inviting me for lunch? (she already did 2 weeks ago) At what point do I take the initiative? What's the signal?

During the separation talks, she told me she didn't know I loved her this much. I'm concerned that keeping her at arm's length will only confirm her decision to go. For a LBS, are there circumstances where you're supposed to open your heart more and show your true feelings?

I'm sure I will have more questions along the way, especially as situations arise. I'm really grateful I found this place.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza, welcome. Glad you found us! Sorry you had to find us.

Find Sandi's 37 rules if you haven't already and read them daily/often.

"During the separation talks, she told me she didn't know I loved her this much. I'm concerned that keeping her at arm's length will only confirm her decision to go. For a LBS, are there circumstances where you're supposed to open your heart more and show your true feelings?"

I seriously doubt she didn't know before but I guarantee she knows now. No reason to keep telling her. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, and I struggle with it my damn self, but keep it up.

You are on moderation so your posts don't show up in real time. Post a lot in small bits to help get you off mod quicker. So be patient if the replies don't come flowing in like you'd want.

Wonka, MrBond, Sandi2, Starsky, just to name a few are your best allies. Listen/read carefully what they have to say and think about it before you reply.

Hang in there, help is on the way.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Thanks a lot Jefe for your reply. As you said, I'm both happy I found you and sad that I had to.

I did read the 37 rules compiled by Sandi2. In fact, they were what brought me here and I keep them in an open tab. They gave me a little boost a couple of days ago and I'm still on that high. Very useful.

There are two anecdotes that explains why I wonder if I should open up again about my feelings.

1. After a week of begging and pleading and I-love-yous, I decided to get out of the way and adopt a DB attitude. After the conversation I told her: "I might look different tonight, but I feel just like yesterday inside" to which she replied "Thanks for telling me. I wasn't sure." Doubts had entered her mind already, probably because she considered me detached in the relationship. Now it's been over three weeks I've acted as if everything's fine, so I wonder if she thinks it proves I never cared much about her.

2. In 2009, we came close to a breakup and I successfully pleaded and begged her backed into the relationship. She told me then and recently that seeing my love for her, realizing we had something real, was one of the reasons she came back. She loves being loved and won't stay if she doesn't feel it.

Anyway, at this stage I won't be writing or calling her about it. I guess I'll keep it to myself for a good while longer. As you said, it's counter-intuitive.

(BTW, there seems to be a little typo in your signature: "WAW / Separated - 8/5/15")


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In the name of sharing small bits and help get me off moderation, here are a few of the things I find hardest.

1. Finding out all this information about WAW now, a few weeks after the breakup. I had no idea my marriage was at risk, but now I see all the signs were there. How I wish I knew this in time and acted on it.

2. Being unable to share information with my W on the benefits of marriage and the downsides of divorce.

3. Having to hide my struggle from my W. I fear she doesn't realize how much I love her, that she'll think I move on real quick so she made the right decision.

4. Falling back into the depth of despair at regular intervals. It's not the daily improvement I was expecting, it's more like ups and downs. The higher I get, the lower I go. I'm tired.

5. Having to GAL and be normal in front of my W. I'm at my lowest and yet I'm supposed to spring with energy. Human nature is upside down sometimes.


And here are a few of the upsides, if I may say so.

1. The separation was a true wake-up call and I feel I'm becoming a better person. I doubt any other shock treatment would have had the same effect.

2. Finding out how many people care deeply about me. I don't go a day without speaking to a friend. My parents have been on the phone with me some 4-5 hours a day sometimes. It has gotten us much closer. Before, I could go a month without talking to them.

3. Enjoying the time without the kids more than I had anticipated. I miss them, but it's nice to have a reduced workload. (though it makes me sad because my wife probably thinks the same which supports her decision to leave)

4. Not falling into depression. I thought this would happen to me, but I manage to work part time, keep the house clean, see my friends and family, take care of the kids, buy new clothes. I find pride in this.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza, now I see why you caught up with my sitch- yours sounds very similar.

You didn't mention any potential OM, but with your W's new circle of work friends (sounds familiar to me), keep your guard up. In my sitch, that seemed to be the catalyst for my W. Just be prepared so you don't act out of emotion should you find out something like that.

Seeing that your BD is still pretty new, I'd avoid any courting or initiating contact right now. For me, it's been over a year since BD and I still initiate very few conversations. Let your W get a taste of what she'll be missing without you. I think it's ok to accept some of W's invitations, but not all (being only 1 mo in, I'd accept less than 50%). The longer you remain available to her, the longer it will take for her to miss you/ the M. Focus on taking care of and improving yourself. Try some new things and spend plenty of time bonding with your Ds.



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Originally Posted By: Tarheel
You didn't mention any potential OM, but with your W's new circle of work friends (sounds familiar to me), keep your guard up. In my sitch, that seemed to be the catalyst for my W. Just be prepared so you don't act out of emotion should you find out something like that.

I'm pretty sure there is someone. I've seen him operate from day 1, when she was still describing everything going on at work. He started by showing a strong interest in her, asking her tons of questions (it initially freaked her out). Then he could use the information to give her all that she likes: invitations, gifts, help. He's been there throughout the move (assembling IKEA furniture because he has "Swedish blood" haha! sigh...) and the kids see him several days a week when they're with my W. During the separation talks, my wife said she wouldn't be with so and so, not even a fling. She left out this guy so I asked about him and she said "I don't know. At least, he's good looking". So yes, I'm pretty sure, but then I don't have any power over it. She left me, she can sleep with half the town and then I'll have to make a decision. I never mention him to my W. I don't even use the kids argument ("before you introduce anyone to the kids....") because he came in as a friend initially. I try to think of it as little as possible.

In fact, it might be the best scenario for me. She could be disappointed quickly and I simply don't think they have enough in common to build a relationship. I'm not afraid of the fling, I'm afraid of the credible partner with whom she would build something new.

Thanks for your advice on waiting to reach out to my W. It's probably my main concern at the moment. I wish I knew when it will be time and now I don't even know what parameters to use. As I said, our contacts are already positive and she reaches out to me regularly enough, so I'm left wondering if her interest in me will really increase over time.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Sorry to hear your story. My wife didn't leave me or the A after I confronted her. The A continues and she acts like and says nothing is going. Not at all saying this sort of thing is going on with you, but after almost 2 months of constant in my face lying, I'm starting to think it'd be better if she wasn't here. I assume most would disagree, but it wears me thin.

Keep reading, focus on yourself and your kids. Get a life and Detach. So very hard to detach, but important to give space.

Good luck. God bless.


Me: 37, W: 36
S6, S3
M: 8
T:11
Discovered 1st A: 9/3/14
Began DB: 9/20/14
W "ended" 1st A repeatedly
Discovered at least 3 more A's, filed 10/29/14

God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy.
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Mozza Offline OP
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(wow, this moderation thing is really serious - I posted some 16 hours ago and it hasn't appeared!)

Tonight, I had my first 'argument' with my wife, over a month into the separation. My W was upset that I told her friend she was sad about the tragedy that hit her family (friend lost a cousin). My W had told me about it, saying she was sad. Then yesterday the friend reached out to me about work. In my response, I offered my condolences, mentioning in passing that my W was also sad. It seemed polite. The friend became distressed that she had caused worries to my W. My W was now concerned that her friend was worried on top of the tragedy and would clam up and no longer share her difficulties with my W.

My W send me a pointed email. I replied quickly but briefly ("Sorry, that was not my intention"), then she emailed back asking if my intentions were to hurt her friend, then she tried to call me, then texted me asking for a call ASAP (but I was on a conference call). It was quite out of character for her. Everything has been smooth since the day she left. She'd never make any excessive request or criticism.

I called her and tried to smooth things out. I made her restate the problem to show I was listening and repeated it to her to show that I had understood. I explained my position trying not to sound defensive, but she was really upset. In fact, I could tell that she wanted to be upset. Along the call, she showed up in my backyard to pick up the stroller (more on that eventually) and I caught up with her in person. I explained what I had really said, which was different from what the friend had reported. I, of course, explained that I never meant to cause any trouble, that I was just being polite. But what seemed to seal the deal is when I asked her to trust me that I'm never trying to cause her any harm. She calmed down, even chuckled and said that it was good to hear. She was in a rush and left, but it felt like a resolution.

The sad part is that even after all these weeks of collaboration and getting out of the way, my W can still think that I'm out to get her. The good part is that the resolution might have dispelled this impression.

Three days earlier, I had asked my wife to return the keys to what is now my apartment. She seemed surprised by it and when we met (I was returning the kids), she did not make eye contact or say anymore than needed. She was in a rush. She then sent me a curt email about a mistake I made in the package that I brought at her request. She later apologized, saying she was tired.

Asking for the keys was the first time I was taking control of the process. I think it caught her by surprise and upset her. Then again, she might have issues elsewhere, perhaps at work (she had to work on Monday, a holiday). Or having the kids for the week might be more work than she thought. In any case, it felt oddly satisfying to see that she has some difficulties during the separation, given that she painted a rosy picture of it when she explained her decision. I'm also glad I asked for the keys and that I resolved the argument without damage.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza Offline OP
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It's my birthday. A month into the separation. Not easy (please, no "happy birthday"). Birthdays have always been important to me, something symbolic. At least, I'm turning 39, not 40.

W wrote me a short message this morning, full of indifference (like: "Happy birthday. You have plans? It should stop raining. Kisses.") This indifference is what hurt the most. Losing the connection with my wife has caught me by surprise and hurt me more than I could have imagined. She was making plans for my birthday until recently. Spending it without her is hard. Birthdays are a moment where we connect with a lot of people, so I will have to spend part of the day announcing the separation.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Mozza Offline OP
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I have an obvious and delicate question: does this thing work? I believe in it, I preach it, I've seen some progress in applying it and I've seen the success stories (most recent are 2 years old though), but what I'm really looking for is a (recent) thread. Someone who started at a difficult point and ended up back with WAS. Not just an email of thanks, but a thread on this discussion forum where I could follow point by point how things progressed from bad to good. As should be expected, most of us are in the throes of a separation, so most stories are at a difficult point or perhaps in development. Any pointer from the veterans to such thread would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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