Wife in denied but ongoing affair, what to do???

[blndsid]

She said I opted out of a camping trip, leaving her to take the kids camping without me. Yes, I did that too. She took them camping twice, first time I went but left a day early because a friend was in town for a visit prior to moving out of the country for 3 years. The second trip I didn't attend because it was poorly planned and from the website I knew they couldn't camp overnight.

I didn't go but said she was free to enjoy the disaster. About 7 that night I get a text that says she was heading home, didn't even set up the tent. W said that several people (part of their group) were drunk and fighting in front of the kids. I considered an 'I told you so', but instead I told her I would set up the tent in the backyard, build a fire, and get fixins for smores.

So, the 2nd camping trip I did attend as well, just not how it was planned. And for the record, the people who stayed had to sleep on their boats because overnight camping was NOT ALLOWED. I didn't even say I told you so. She mentioned the camping trips at both group MC sessions we had, that is until she stopped attending the group sessions with me, ironically.

She went to the lake with friends, twice plus the 2 camping trips. The first I went along. The second I skipped to paint a house for extra money. I felt I was sacrificing a good time to earn extra money we needed for her misc spending. Apparently I missed that one too.

[blndsid]

So, yes, without any sarcasm I definitely had shortcomings and missed things I should have caught. Said things that could be hurtful even if meant jokingly. As I find or realize those things now, I tell her I don't want to start a big discussion about our R, but I wanted to apologize for X, Y, or Z. Usually she says they were no big deal, or knew they were jokes, but I insist on making amends as I find them. I have my 180's and am working them.

I am very far from a perfect father or husband. However, I'd still take my shortcomings over her lies and ongoing affair 99 out of 100 times. Bad attitude, maybe, but that's how I see it. Back to DB.

[blndsid]

Oh, and without snooping, I snooped. Appears she is still at it. Apparently this last week has all been cake eating. Knowing the A is ongoing bothers me but not like I expected. It's the continued denial that I think bothers me most. I've told her, I can handle anything she might say, just be honest (though I don't need the dirty details). If you want to leave, GO. My only request or boundary, "Just be honest". I harp on the boys all the time about how they are not to lie to me. I discipline more for the lie than the thing they lie about. She sits in the same room, straight faced, and hears me say that to them. People are crazy.

GAL, Let it Go. So tough some days.

[blndsid]

To review the events of this last week:

Starting with last Wednesday (8 days ago) the W started acting different to me. As mentioned before we had sex that night, followed by the next night with her lying about taking the same flight as OM to her conference, which I knew she was before I asked. Since it had been booked months ago, I allowed myself to believe she lied to avoid an unnecessary issue. They could have ended it but still have to be on the same flight. That was my illogical logic. Same night she said she didn't know how she could prove it was over. Maybe I will put together a list of ways and see if she'll fake her way through that.

Since then she offered to snuggle, even though that's not her thing. This week we started hugging again. I still don't go to hug her, but I will hug back if she approaches. I kiss if she moves to kiss me first. I started to return ILYs when she said it first. Even the "I really do love you" I got last night. Sunday night (3 days ago) neither of us could fall asleep, so she asked if I wanted to 'fool around' as we call it. You know, to help us sleep. Hoping we had turned a corner, and wanting to believe that, I said yes. Good time had by all. Then I cooked dinner Monday night and had it ready when she got home. Last night, after my trust but verify moment, not so much.

This all goes back to my original reason for feeling the need to post on here, how do you know when a W denying an affair has actually ended the affair and is willing to reconcile, without some sort of verification? Obviously any advice is appreciated because I'm just spun around after last week.

I got fooled again because I wanted to believe her change in actions, towards me anyhow. Now I have to take a step back and not accept her advances. Cake eating, dang it.

[shodan]

Blndsid

My situation is very similar to your situation. W is in A, I have the evidence but she denies it. She has been much "warmer" over the past two months which has caused me from time to time to think she has ended it. But I have found evidence more recently to the contrary. I think she is waffling and not sure what to do. Or perhaps the guilt of ending her M for the A is causing her to rethink her position. Your W is probably in the same boat. Being nice to you allows her to take the A underground AND keep you in limbo. No need for her to make a decision if both the OM and you are in play.

The advice given to me has been the obvious ones from DB:
- detach, detach, detach
- GAL...it helps with detaching
- STFU...don't talk about the R; she knows you know about the A, she knows that you ideally want to work on your M, so no need to say this again.
- Focus on you...what improvements can you make? How can you make yourself better? How can you be the husband only a fool would leave?

How will you know when she ended the A? She will tell you.

As mentioned already, my W refuses to admit to the A. My DB coach believes that once my W admits to the A, she knows she will need to end it. Therefore, by denying it, she can pretend that everyone is still in the dark. Perhaps your W has the same "logic".

Further, when you spur her advances, don't say "as long as the OM is in the picture, we are not doing this." That will just cause her to get angry and spew hatred and more lies. "Fake a headache", say you are not in the mood/tired, switch positions in bed when she wants to snuggle (but not in an abrupt, d*ckish way), etc.

As Starsky has said to me, why would your W end it when she has two men meeting her physical and emotional needs?

[blndsid]

THANK YOU. It's like I know that I know what to do, but after the roller coaster of the last 10 days I don't even know which way is up.

The first 'go round' last Wednesday was after I went out with an old friend from high school. Part of GAL, I go out at least one night a week after putting kids to bed, just an hour or two. My W knows my usual friends are pretty harmless, so he was different.

However, the day or so before we met up I told her about my friend from HS and how nuts he was in HS. Got expelled at prom, drugs, booze, gun. A real class act. Looking back that might have been a reaction to GAL that made her come to bed that way.

Up to that point I didn't hug, kiss, or say ILY's for a couple weeks. Sure, I'd give a friendly hug or pat on the back to acknowledge her existence, but I was pretty short about it. Avoid being in the same room unless it's the living room to watch kids watch TV.

Back to HS friend. . . now he doesn't even drink, except water with lemon. Apparently he discovered it was toxic to him. Told my wife we went to a bar for 2 drinks. However, we just met at his house to discuss my sitch because his W had an A their first year of marriage, 6 years ago. They're still married, not happily, but luckily no kids. His advice was "Let It Go", referring to the A. Let it go a little more each day. It was working well as part of my denial during the last week too.

[blndsid]

Last night she had asked "for my thoughts" about going with coworkers to a bar on Thursday night. I told her she was an adult and could do what she wants, regardless of my thoughts. This ticked her off and then she said she text a coworker and they weren't going anymore, to forget about it.

I had been with her on the last co-worker trip, 4 weeks ago, and it involved the same bar. We were together but one of us had to get the boys from her mother. To show what a good dad I am, I offered to picked them up and put them to bed so she could stay with coworkers (OM wasn't there, of course). I left at 8, told her if she stayed to 10, home at 10:30, that was fair (she's sort of self grounded herself because of the affair that she ended, thus she asked for "my thoughts" this time). She ended up getting home at 12:30, pretty well loaded. Her phone died about 10:30, convenient.

So at bedtime last night I brought it up. Told her that last time we had agreed on a time to be home and she ignored me and did what she was going to do. I told her I realized I'd done things to cause her to lose all respect for me, and that is understandable. I proceed to tell her that she is going to do whatever she is going to do and I can't do anything about it. I can only change me, and work with the boys, and that is what I'm doing. I'm changing me. W will have to change herself.

She said she'd noticed changes around the house but that it was going to take her more time to work on things. I repeated what I said before, I can only change me, you are going to do whatever it is you want to do. I have accepted that.

This morning she sent an odd text regarding how I implied she doesn't work when at the office, but I graciously apologized if she misread something I said last night. She also changed her pw to one of my snooping methods, which is for the best (it notified me of the change on my phone for some reason, I didn't check it). I don't need that during next week when W and OM will be at a 6 day conference together.

I was not in a good mood when she got home last night as I figured I had to go back to my previous routine. No kissing or ILY's. I let her hug me this morning, but I wasn't going to go to her. I could tell she was quite bothered by my 180 last night and this morning. I assume I have no option but to revert back to what I was doing, even though I said nothing specific about my distance or change in affection last night.

GAL, Let It Go. PMA. I know, but it's tough today. Getting better as the day goes by though.

[blndsid]

Do NOT tell her what you know, and what you don't know. Say only "I know all about you and ______, and it needs to stop, immediately. It's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and to our family." By not telling her what you know specifically, she will have to assume you know EVERYTHING.

Tell her nothing more than "I do not want a divorce, but make no mistake -- I am not willing to live in an open marriage. End your affair and come back and work on the marriage with me, and you will find that I am ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own, as I've already been doing as you know."

Then end the convo, and remain distant and mysterious. The phrases "I'm not sure how I feel about that" or "Sounds like we both have some important decisions to make" are your friends.

More later, gotta go to an appt . . . how you handle this is a CRITICAL step. Make sure you post here first without doing anything drastic or getting into any deep convos with her!!!


Starsky

I think I'm going to attempt this conversation since we're within about 24 hours of me switching back to detaching. Tell her I thought we'd turned a corner but I was presented with information that the affair is still going on. Then lead into this dialog. Going out tonight so I thought I'd bring it up in 20 minutes or so, after the kids are in bed, then leave to go out as an end to the conversation. I highly doubt she will break down and confess. I expect resentment. Wonder how she'd act if the shoe was on the other foot?

Thoughts?

This can't possibli go wrong.

[blndsid]

It is done. Kept pretty good with the script but tailored it to fit. I'll add a post later to describe how it went.

I have no idea how this plays out, but this is the best I've felt in 6 weeks. It was the right words in the right tone. I feel like I took the control back when I said I wasn't afraid of divorce like I was 6 weeks ago. I realize this is a short timeframe compared to many other stories, but the constant lying about how it was ended was too much. At least now we have an understanding of what's going on.

Thank you Starsky, wherever you are!!

[1foot2]

Way to go B. Let us know how that plays out. I'm definitely following your thread as our sitches are similar.