Wife in denied but ongoing affair, what to do???

[blndsid]

Hello DB board. Before I start I just want to mention I have been reading the posts in these forums for 6 weeks now. I have read so many similar stories to mine that I have obtained much of what I needed to get started with DB. I have bought the DB book and am a couple chapters into it, but I find the insight on this board so succinct as the advice is directed towards situations that are similar to my own. BIG thanks for that.

Here is the short version of my story, hard to believe I know, but it's been 6 weeks of beating.

We were married in April 2006. Two boys, now 3 and 5. Change of my vocation in Oct. 2013, now making about 60% of previously but sending out resumes, etc. This made her the clear bread winner, for now. She has good job with health insurance, etc. The work I do does not.

The bomb drop/land mine was discovered by accident about Sept. 3, 2014. Found excessive texting on phone bill (3000 to one #), did some detective work and confronted her. She said he was just a friend at work (OM - married 18 years, with two teenage daughters), nothing sexual, no physical contact. My investigation suggested otherwise, she finally admitted some texts discussed sex, and then finally admitted they had kissed a few times. Supposedly has been going on since July (2 months at that point). Figured there was more, but didn't have evidence at that point. She refused to let me see the texts in her phone, though I had seen them elsewhere already. She deleted most on a daily basis anyhow.

She said she'd end the A the next day and said she didn't love him. Said the stress from finances and my lousy fathering made her need an escape. Both cried and I forgave her right there, told her she could stay because of the boys. Talked to pastor two days later.

She said I didn't help with the kids enough, didn't listen to her concerns around my job change, and I was a lousy husband and father for last 2-3 years. I just listened and took the beating, though I did insist her reaction was beyond anything I did or didn't do. She had been complaining to everyone but me; family, friends, co-workers. We decided to keep the A between the two of us, though my best man knew the dirty details because I had to talk to someone (he's in a different country right now). She knows I talked to him.

I knew she was concerned with finances, but if we stayed on budget (her budget) we'd be putting money in the bank with both our current incomes. However, she was on a spending binge for last 9 months, progressively worse in last 3 months. Otherwise, I was completely oblivious to what was going on with her. Oblivious.

So I start to do more around the house, though not much more. After a day or two all I was getting from her was how I was now smothering her. So I backed off. In the end, the only thing I've really changed as a father is getting up a little earlier to make the boys breakfast while she gets ready for work. I take them to school/daycare every morning already, so not a big change but I can see it does help. I also took up more of the grocery shopping.

So for all the "how I suck" talk, there wasn't much more she wanted me to do without smothering. It was about this point that I started to realize her perception/story and reality were quite a different thing. According to my perception anyhow. This was a much deeper issue than it appeared. Boy was I onto something.

At this point, about 10 days later, we were trying new things to make the home life easier with the kids and their behaviors, etc. We had gone on a couple dates, but she still seemed distant.

Anyhow, we were discussing budgets again and she said she'd work on spending less. She has done better, but not great so far. She was still
talking about our future and getting out of debt completely this time, etc.

I can't remember what caused me to snoop a few days later, around Sept 15 (yes, snooping is BAD, but I had to know). Without giving up my sources, I find out they are still communicating and sneaking off for make-out sessions at work. Still at it, it had just gone underground. Worse than ever with the details. Damn it.

I can't take that too long, maybe a day. I bring up the fact that I know something is still going on. She denies and says it's over, repeatedly. I say I know they are still at it and ask if co-workers would have noticed what was happening. Then she wants to know who I'm talking to at her work. I explain that an affair at work is bound to end up with a co-worker snitching, but it was her fault, not any co-worker. I ask if she plans to leave me for him and she says no. She said he had no plans to leave his wife either. I asked if she had an end game in mind since they were both married and just having a good time. She said she'd never leave her boys and then literally threw up her hands and said "Fine, I'll just live in an unhappy marriage forever." As I went to walk out of the room I calmly said "It doesn't have to be unhappy." A few minutes later I peek back in the room and tell her calmly "just to be clear, I didn't threaten to take the boys away." I just wanted her to realize I could get custody, long-shot though it may be.

I had an appointment to go see a D attorney prior to that conversation, but later on that same day. I meet the attorney, a divorced female, and she listens to my story. After discussing everything she says, with your two boys, you need to go find a good marriage counselor, you DO NOT want a D. Strange but true.

So pastor recommends a counselor, a male, but I ask my W on the off chance she would go whether she'd prefer female or male. Of course she chose female, not knowing I had a male name in hand, but in his group there was a female so I sign myself up. I tell her she's welcome to go but no obligation. I was going no matter what, and same price either way. Of course the cost was her concern. I said if she didn't continue an affair I wouldn't need so much counseling.

She actually went to the first session as a couple, though reluctantly, and rehashed how I sucked. At this point I had a better retort, but still just let her talk. My complaint was how she told everyone but me how much I sucked for 9 months. She agreed to meet for a one on one the next week. She refused to go to second pastor meeting the following day. I did go, need all the help I can get.

Went to a friends wedding the weekend after the first session. There she pounded 12-15 beers in 6 hours, 4-5 was her usual max previously. Her and another woman there propositioned me for a 3-way of sorts. The sort where I sit in the corner and they go to town. I could see in W eyes that if I bluffed she would have called it and I would have been corner bound. Girl on girl was never something she brought up before. If our R wasn't in the crapper, maybe I'd have played along, but I know a guy who did once and it ended poorly, so it was best to graciously decline. She did however get the woman's cell number and the number of another guy at the wedding. Nice.

Snooped a little (I know, I know) and found her discussing girl on girl with OM. He encouraged her to do whatever made her feel good, and blah blah blah. I found she was searching for lesb!an p0rn on her computer in her Google toolbar, innocently I swear. Again, normally that might do something for me, but this is unlike her former self.

At this point I had already started some of 180 tactics that are discussed here. Minimal physical contact/hugging, very rare ILY's, minimal R talk except at counselor. Have started going out with friends at least one evening per week. Get the boys in bed then go out for a couple hours. Minimal alcohol now due to loudmouth soup issues. Man, there are things I want to say, but now I just leave the room.

I f'd up one night at her birthday dinner where her mom (MIL) bought several new dresses for her to wear to work. I said Jen and OM will surely like those. MIL picked up on the comment and asked about it. W told her a few days later some half truths about situation. MIL said she should pursue A and I was a deadbeat dad/husband. Nice.

The night of the blurt I got home and decided to take up running to vent. Now I run, pushups, etc. After BD I lost 25 pounds in 20 days. Now weigh what I did when age 23, 14 years ago.

She went to her follow-up session and lied to counselor about it being over, blah blah blah. Said she was thinking of a trial separation, which MIL encouraged. Counselor backed her off that, for now I guess. (Never mentioned to me) She hasn't been to a session since. I've been to 2 more couple sessions, alone, since then. Snooped again (I know I know) and she lied to OM about what she told counselor. basically she is lying to everyone, including herself I'm sure.

I have come to the conclusion that I can only work on me and the boys. I try to focus all energy on that and it is difficult to ignore ongoing A.

I've taken on more work in my spare time, manual labor is good for the soul. Throwing resume at anything that I sort of qualify for that's full-time with benefits. I will never be this dependent on a single individual, other than myself, ever again. F that.

W and I started alternating nights to run/walk alone, but I decided I needed to take boys with me. So I did and she decided to join us, most of the time. Have been on 3-4 walks as a family in last 10 days or so. Did a camp out with boys last weekend with tent in backyard, campfire, smores, hamburgers. W joined us on 2 hikes, one down by the river that included a picnic. Sunday we (me, W and boys) spent an hour or so at a park with another hike. All my ideas.

This week had one family walk and a couple with me and boys. PTA meeting with all of us. House has recently developed foundation issues (ironically I think) so that's another stressor.

Spent an afternoon this week with my FIL working over my resume and such. I figure he's the only one who might see things from my point of view, though I'm sure my MIL has not told him about the A and such. Met with an old friend who's in a similar situation on that evening (Wednesday, 2 days ago) and his advice was "LET IT GO", a little more each day, referring to the ongoing A.

Got home from that visit. Was in bed and W came to bed. At this point she still denies anything is going on. Says it is over and she acts as though there's nothing out of the usual going on. I know there is of course, at least within the last week, last I checked. I'm becoming numb to the details I learn of A from "checking the wind" on occasion. W laid down next to me, facing me. I decided that if anyone was going to F her it should be me. I started rubbing her back, asked if that was OK. She said yes. Worked down to her legs, lets say. Asked if that was Ok, she said yes. So this proceeds to a good time for all.

In my mind, my wife from before is dead and gone. I've mourned her loss. I looked at her as my live in nanny who is dating the OM, so I just F'd the OM's girlfriend. Take that, makes me laugh. Call it a backslide, but as messed up as her brain is she may believe her own lies that it's over. I'm beyond confused.

The next night, after discussions of foundation repair (great for marital relations) I offered a foot massage for stress relief (and said 'no strings attached'). During foot rub I mentioned counseling that's scheduled for next day. As usual said it was completely up to her if she wanted to go. She asked about cost, but followed quickly that she didn't mind, was just curious when insurance kicks in to help. Assuming from that response she wasn't going, I proceed to tell her one of my topics to discuss, that I intend to get stable job with benefits and never rely on anybody else for support in the future, regardless if it's her or someone else. I will get out of debt and never go back, again with her or without her, that's my plan.

I told her I felt there was still something going on with OM. I can't divulge my sources, so I call it just a feeling. She says it's over and she doesn't know how to convince me of that. Now, she has a week long work conference coming up Oct. 21 to 26 in Chicago. I've seen that her and OM are booked on the same flight there and back. I ask if he's on her flight, she says no. After almost wringing her foot off, we discussed a few other lighter topics and I left her with a 'good night'.

I went to bed a little later. We are woken up by my S5 about 5:00am. He goes back to bed. She asks if I'm awake. I say yes. She asks if I want to snuggle. Now, she never snuggles. After sex one gets about 10 minutes before she's done with that. And on any given night she doesn't want to be touched by my toe as she tries to sleep. So for her to ask if I wanted to snuggle/spoon is beyond odd. I didn't turn it down of course, because I'm just a man, so we lay there for about an hour until S3 comes in and wants mom to make breakfast. Even then she tried to stay in snuggle mode, surprisingly.

I'm beyond spun around at this point. Today we talked, mostly her, and I look her in the eyes like I'm supposed to while she talks. Discussed replacing flooring in the house after foundation repair, etc. For the most part I try to be in another room from her, to give space. When she went to bed, as I am writing this, she comes to me, gives long hug and then she offers the kiss and I accept.

So, WTF? All opinions are welcome. I feel I fell off the wagon with the whole sex thing, but what can I say, I'm just a man. Did I mention the work conference in 10 days? That will be hell week. I do have a few friends that know of hell week and offered to buy lunch or dinner during it. Damn it all.

Do I ever show her the transcripts of what I actually know is going on? I assume not, that I need to detach and let it go, but for being oblivious I'm not a complete fool. Thanks in advance. . .

[blndsid]

Sorry for the long initial post, but that is the short version that still catches major details. Since posting that a couple days ago more has changed.

I think I want to confront her with the info I have, but if I do then she knows I'm on to her, and then my way to verify in the future is squashed. At this point I can't trust without a back channel verification, so I don't want to lose that. It just drives me crazy, she doesn't understand I don't ask a question unless I already know the answer. Other than the foot rub night, I keep R talk to a minimum, and even that was minimal. Since I feel I can't confront, I just try to "let it go" since I can't stop what she does or says. I assume confrontation would get a poor reaction from her at this point anyhow.

That said, with the way she was acting somewhat different the last 5 days or so, I checked the wind (snooped) and the few messages I saw were pretty harmless. He mentioned "I miss you" at the end of a message and she made no specific mention of it in her benign response. I still don't trust anything, her next message could have been plans for sex the next day, I don't know. I can't bring myself to snoop any further. I'm tired of the anxiety, loss of appetite, and sleeplessness it brings when it's bad news.

She's said it was over for 5-6 weeks before this, when do I know she's really done and wants to reconcile without snooping? I hate snooping, but I'll do it. Please someone tell me I shouldn't. Thanks.

[Cristy]

Hi,

I am sorry for the situation you are in. The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. A coach can also speak with you specifically about snooping and confronting her with what you know. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[MrBond]

Sorry that you find yourself on here. How much of the DB book have you actually read? It sounds like you are belittling the issues you had and concentrate just on the A.

[MCS]

Your sitch sounds just like mine. Two young kids, me oblivious to anything wrong, about same ages, an EA/PA w/coworker, huge personality changes, ugh. Only difference is that my wife left the house right after the BD and now won't talk to me or see me even for kid swaps.

[blndsid]

Thanks Christi. I will consider a call since my local counselor is out for the next two weeks due to a surgery she's having.

That's a fair question and observation mrbond. That was the condensed version so I left out all the ways I suck, and there are many. Too many to type from my phone. Since these threads are a journal of sorts I will put together the things I was told or self identified and get back.

I went and looked and I've made it through chapter 4 of the book. Honestly the changing myself has been my focus as I realized through counseling and reflection that I can only change me. I also know she's noticed some changes as she's made comments about them. I guess I still dwell on the A because I don't see the two of us working on the problems in the R while it continues underground. Additionally, I don't want to miss that transition if/when she actually ends it because I've grown tired of the stories that have all been lies before.

More to your subtle point, I plan to get back to reading in my alone time. Thanks for the reminder to look at the big picture.

[blndsid]

As to my shortcomings, and there were many, so I'll try to lump and then give specific examples.

She said she felt things started downhill after S3 was born. I didn't help out enough in general. Came home late from work so she felt like a single parent in the evenings. Of course we also had the lack of going out on any regular basis after second son was born.

About a year ago I had a change of vocation as mentioned in the first novel above. She saw it as me quiting, I saw it as me being run off. (Long story, for the next post maybe, related to complaint above) Best I can tell this was the tipping point for her, which is why it was mentioned in the novel. It was a major stressor for her and I misjudged the scope of stress.

More recently I would pass on some events she planned with her and the kids. She would plan a trip to, lets say, the zoo. She'd ask if I wanted to go, but she'd say that her mom would go instead if I had other things to do. Typically I would pass thinking she and her mom enjoyed time with the kids together. Another misjudgement on my part. There were other similar events like lake trips, camping, and lunch gatherings with friends/kids that I did not attend.

More on this in the next post.

[blndsid]

So regarding my shortcomings, when I first heard them in the first session talking to pastor, they seemed fair enough. After reflecting on them it appeared to me to be selective memory or just seeing the negative side of the situation.

To begin with:

The previous job that caused me to work late and often miss dinner with the family was one I'd taken with the idea that my W could then stay at home with kids, as SHE wanted it. We planned our life/budget around the idea of one income, including the house purchase, so she had the choice to stay home. I was hired to become the general manager after a few years, and so I worked like that. One day in early 2013 boss came to me and said he was ready to hand the Co. over to me as GM, however, he said his GM would not be someone who stayed home with sick kids, that my wife should be doing that. Other comments were made along those lines, that I was his to use 24/7. I had one week to consider.

W and I discussed. She no longer wanted to stay home and, honestly, had gotten raises since then that put her within $2000 or so of what I would be making as GM. We decided I should decline since I already missed too much with the kids. I told her, if I turn down the position you must understand he could let me go right there that day. So I go in, tell him I don't want the position anymore.

At the time he kept me on in sales, but it was downhill from there. Talking to some of the long term guys in the warehouse they explained his preferred method was to make life miserable so the employee would quit, to avoid paying unemployment or severance. Eventually we came to an agreement that I'd leave to do my own thing. He suggested December, I said October. So I did choose to leave earlier than possible, but in the end he told me to leave at the end of August and paid me through October. I was done there regardless, so I didn't see it as quitting.

One thing I did take away from the couple times we were together for counseling was the idea that "perception is reality". Even if I look (or looked) at all my issues and could explain them here logically, that doesn't mean that's how she "perceived" the issues at the time, or even now. Apparently that can be dangerous.

[blndsid]

That all said, I still work part-time while job hunting for a full-time gig that pays more than my part-time small business. I even do home remodeling work on free days for extra cash.

The finances/budget are doable on paper, putting money in the bank if we (she) wasn't spending $1000 - $2000 over budget per month. Just misc. stuff, I don't even have a boat to show for it. When I realized we were draining our savings, instead of putting money into it, I took over budget duty. That was July 2014. The spending was another indicator I missed, but when I saw it I told a friend I thought it looked like a kamikaze mission. It appears I may have been correct. She saw finances as a problem, and by over spending made it one.

[blndsid]

Regarding the lack of participation with the kids, my part-time gig gave me more time to be around the kids this last year, doing doctor appointments, t-ball, swimming lessons, and other things so my wife didn't have to leave her job to do them. She still cooks dinner, but she says she likes to do it, so I believe her.

That is why I say now, after she said one problem was not helping enough with the kids/house chores, I found the only thing to change was feeding them breakfast. Everywhere else I tried to help I got the "you are smothering me" response, so I backed off.

Regarding the outings with her and the kids, I obviously did things but didn't feel I had to be there all the time. She never listed all the things I had done for the kids, just the ones where I opted out. There were a few things I didn't do, for sure, but the way I saw it her mom wanted to go if I didn't, so enjoy the kids with your mother. Seemed normal to me. Just one part of why I was oblivious to the problems.