Just to be clear, theoden and Starsky's approaches are in regard to the situation AFTER the cheating WAW has shown a willingness to work on their marriage again, correct?
If the WAW is still very much engaged in the A with the OM, and has made no indication to reconcile, then I would think "standing ground" would simply drive her away faster (according to DB principles), no?
That's a very good question.
But...part of the way you act during your WAW's affair may have an impact on her willingness to work on the marriage.
A hard-line doesn't necessarily mean you're a jerk or manipulative. It means you have some non-negotiables, which means you are person with a spine and worth respecting. . You are solid and trust-able. In addition, you may need to protect your children, finances and health, so hard-lines are sometimes necessary. The same idea in DB is there when it tells you not to chase, beg or plead. It's unattractive to be a doormat.
Sometimes boundaries are attractive.
It's something to be balanced. What will attract your spouse in the fog of an affair? On the spectrum between milquetoast and intransigent idiot, what is the wise choice?
My personal experience was I tried to GAL, 180 and "nice" my wife back into the marriage and I found it to be very exhausting. When my wife was ready to try working on the marriage, she had already taken an attitude of entitlement (she has right to have an affair), and did not show any remorse. I needed those things to trust her. In addition she was rewarded with a new and improved husband to reward her for her infidelity. Also the "new and improved" Theoden couldn't keep it up for long. I am who I am. And she was only coming back to a marriage as long as I was the better option. New problems arose and she moved on to OM #2.
In hindsight I could have saved a lot of time (years) if I just took a hard-line and gave her an ultimatum.
This doesn't mean that the softer, non-confrontational approach doesn't work. I'm just speaking from my failed attempts.
If a reconciliation is only based on the betrayed spouse keeping up their cheater's love-bank full and maintaining their GAL and 180 changes, then you are choosing a marriage of "What have you done for me lately?" On the other hand, if the cheater has an "aha" moment and really, deeply realizes that betraying trust and harming their children is NOT the way to deal with mariage problems, and actually acts in a way to make amends, which includes expressing remorse, then the marriage is on stronger ground.
The cheater is the kind of person with a moral compass that says it's OK to cheat if my needs aren't met...so....then they need to grow a conscience, plain and simple.
So when in the process do you address your cheating spouse's mis-aligned moral compass? And how do you know it's really changed?
Just to be clear, theoden and Starsky's approaches are in regard to the situation AFTER the cheating WAW has shown a willingness to work on their marriage again, correct?
If the WAW is still very much engaged in the A with the OM, and has made no indication to reconcile, then I would think "standing ground" would simply drive her away faster (according to DB principles), no?
Hi Mindsin,
To the extent that I have an "approach" (I really try to tailor my advice to each individual poster, their sitch, and their marital backstory), I have one THROUGHOUT the process. From how to handle the "bomb drop," to how aggressively to fight any affairs, to protecting the family finances and getting your legal ducks in a row, right thru to the (hopefully) moment when your formerly wayward spouse asks you "What will it take for you to take me back?" and you being the hard long slog of "piecing."
So no, that's not an accurate assessment. If anything, I'd probably stress a little more of the OPPOSITE -- I'm very much a "If you ARE going to lay strong boundaries, lay 'em EARLY" guy. I find that it saves the betrayed spouses months if not YEARS of emotional damage and heartache.
What you DON'T do (and maybe this is what you mean by your question) is start laying out "Well let me TELL ya, this is what it's going to take for me to take you back!" when your spouse is still wayward, looking at you like you're nuts, and saying "Um, dear, who said anything about me even WANTING to come back??!"
Thanks for your response theoden. I actually brought this up to my W very early on (a few weeks after the bomb).
I told her that I was afraid of losing her respect if I just stood by and did nothing, and that I didn't want to be a man who didn't fight for his W and family.
Her response was, "I would respect you more if you just let me be happy"
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Btw, sorry if I'm hijacking here Shodan. I'm trying to keep my posts on topic and relevant to the discussion without delving into my particular situation.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Thanks for your response theoden. I actually brought this up to my W very early on (a few weeks after the bomb).
I told her that I was afraid of losing her respect if I just stood by and did nothing, and that I didn't want to be a man who didn't fight for his W and family.
Her response was, "I would respect you more if you just let me be happy"
My wife said pretty much the same thing while she was still in the throes of her affair. "Why won't you just let me go?!" and "I will never, EVER love you again . . . can't you see that?" and "What you're doing is only driving me away!" Etc.
When we reconciled, she tearfully asked me why I fought so hard for her. I told her:
- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";
- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;
- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;
- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;
- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.
After we reconciled, she THANKED me for fighting for her, and told me that she RESPECTED WHAT I DID (even thought she was royall p*ssed off at me at the time!, lol)
What you DON'T do (and maybe this is what you mean by your question) is start laying out "Well let me TELL ya, this is what it's going to take for me to take you back!" when your spouse is still wayward, looking at you like you're nuts, and saying "Um, dear, who said anything about me even WANTING to come back??!"
Yeah, that's where I was going with my question. For example, demanding commitment to rebuild the marriage, and having her take ownership of mistakes, wrong-doings, etc.
Thanks.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Thanks for your response theoden. I actually brought this up to my W very early on (a few weeks after the bomb).
I told her that I was afraid of losing her respect if I just stood by and did nothing, and that I didn't want to be a man who didn't fight for his W and family.
Her response was, "I would respect you more if you just let me be happy"
My wife said pretty much the same thing while she was still in the throes of her affair. "Why won't you just let me go?!" and "I will never, EVER love you again . . . can't you see that?" and "What you're doing is only driving me away!" Etc.
When we reconciled, she tearfully asked me why I fought so hard for her. I told her:
- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";
- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;
- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;
- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;
- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.
After we reconciled, she THANKED me for fighting for her, and told me that she RESPECTED WHAT I DID (even thought she was royall p*ssed off at me at the time!, lol)
Starsky
Wow. Good stuff here Starsky! Is your thread still active? I'd love to read your story. If not, could you outline some of the key things you did to fight for her, and perhaps which one(s) you think were the most crucial to your success? Thanks.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
