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I am the classic 'was happy in a 7yr relationship' story until I discovered his affair. Now we are separated and he is confused, but appears to be leaning towards being with her. A woman he met on a plane and who lives in Frankfurt, Germany. (I mean, seriously???). Before this, we had what even he calls a great relationship and were best friends and life partners who had just bought a house together.

How do I deal with the complete abandonment? He won't even see our dog that he adored! What does that say? He is like a totally different person.

I would love to know, whether they ever think about us and miss us while they are going thru the selfish affair fog? When that wears off and reality sets in, do they see us more clearly?

I am totally dismantled. Crying and can barely function. How does someone who used to love you do this to you? Is that love still there, just suppressed by all the craziness? Would love to hear from some wayward spouses about their story and what worked to get through to them. Desperate for some hope.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 350
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Zimmy

Sorry that you find yourself here. I am new to this process as well but can offer up some solace and suggestions.

- read the stories on this forum
- read DB and DR
- GAL and Detach
- See a therapist
- find some friends in whom you can confide

This is such a hard thing to do. No one can understand the mind of a WAS. You need to give him space and time. You also need to remember that you cannot control him and his actions. No amount of logic, pleading, etc will win him back. Logic does NOT trump emotion.

Do you have any sense for what could have been wrong in the M? Are there things that you can work on to improve yourself?

I am four months into this process and can tell you that the pain subsides. There are good days and bad days. GALing and detaching makes it much, much easier.


Me: 40, W: 40
M: 15, T: 18
D - 10, S - 7
D announcement 6/7/2014
A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W)
Still living together and sharing same bed
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Zimmy,

It helps to look at an A as an addiction. Addicts are only thinking of themselves and have trouble thinking logically. How this affects you isn't fully understood, because that requires empathy, and while in the fog they have very little, if any, empathy to access. Addicts lie, cheat and do anything they can, crazy or not, to get to the source of their addiction. It really not about you at all- affairs are very selfish indulgences that happen in a "bubble" so to speak.

Will you H see you more clearly? Yes, but only after the A is over. At that point, they "wake up" and realize what they have done, much like a sober alcoholic.

Read the stories on here, particularly the ones that resulted in reconciliation. You are going to have to learn that tough love is the only love that matters in your situation right now. You must avoid begging, crying, pleading reasoning etc., it only pushes them farther away from you. It feels frightening and counter intuitive to do so, but it's your best hope of winning them back.

-HS

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Zimmy,

Glad you are here. You have found the right place.

While I am fairly new here myself let me offer my prayers and sympathy to you because I can definitely relate to what you are experiencing and feeling right now.

A couple of extra suggestions to what Shodan has already mentioned.

1) Find Sandi's 37 rules here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2250607#Post2250607
I suggest you save them and edit them to reflect your spouses name instead of the pronouns. It was suggested to me and it has helped. Read over them often.

2) Edit your signature line to show some basic info, I.E. Time married, time together, children and ages, when affair was dicovered, etc.

3) Give us some more background on the relationship and what events led up to the current situation.

4) If you are Christian or are in need of some prayer guidance please visit oyr Prayer Circle thread in this section.

5) Post often, even if just to journal feelings, thoughts, and events. It helps you get it out and helps the long-timers here help you better.

It gets better. We all cry and have seriously down days, but it really does get better.


Last edited by Jefe; 10/06/14 05:33 PM.

Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Quote:
It helps to look at an A as an addiction. Addicts are only thinking of themselves and have trouble thinking logically. How this affects you isn't fully understood, because that requires empathy, and while in the fog they have very little, if any, empathy to access. Addicts lie, cheat and do anything they can, crazy or not, to get to the source of their addiction. It really not about you at all- affairs are very selfish indulgences that happen in a "bubble" so to speak.


Well put, HS


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Shodan: Thank you for your response. It seems like your timing of dealing with all this coincides closely with mine. I got the talk at the beginning of June but discovered the affair by accident in mid July. How are you doing?

Is it worth reading both DB and DR? I have DR and have read cover to cover, but not sure if DB is the same? Everything else you recommend is helpful and is in process.

The only things I can think of that might have been wrong are the following, but I don't think anything was fundamentally broken, as we were happy and very close, just bought a house together and were excited about our future just before the A started:

* We were both very busy at work and traveling a bit, so we probably didn't prioritize our relationship the last few months before this started.
* Could have had more sex and date nights, but nothing awful.
* I gained a few pounds at beginning of year and wasn't feeling super attractive in myself (good news is that trauma of all this has helped me lose all of that and then some - ironically, he can't stop saying how amazing I look right now, which I have been hard pressed to remind him is because I haven't been able to eat in weeks due to the emotional distress...)
* Could have communicated better if he had any grievances, but he said nothing. He is very conflict avoidant.
* I probably put him first too much, and he took this for granted a bit.

So I am working on a list of things I want to do to GAL. Have been eating more healthily, bought a new wardrobe, went to a spa this weekend, doing kickboxing and tennis, taking painting classes, joined a BAN support group that is meeting tomorrow, planning a leave of absence from work and how to fill this (maybe I finally write that novel), journalling, and signed up for a matchmaking service. Wow - when I write it all out, I'm not doing so bad considering...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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HopefulStill:

Thank you for your post! All this makes sense to me. How has your process been?

I have been talking to a DB coach, Leni, who is wonderful. She has really helped to calm me down, put perspective on things, and keep the hope alive. The only part I still struggle with is balancing the tough love / 180s with giving them the ability to see how wonderful you are and to reinforce their positive feelings for and connection with you. I guess they are not necessarily mutually exclusive?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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Jefe: Great to hear from you. Here is a little bit more detail of my story:

* In a relationship for 7 years and was engaged to a wonderful, loving man who I thought was my soul mate. We had a great relationship and everything in common. We were truly happy. Just bought a house together last August 2013 and were both excited about our future. He told me every day how much he loved me and how lucky we were, until...

* Apparently he met a girl on a plane last January. She lives in Frankfurt and he 'fell into' an affair with her. She knew he had a fiance but that didn't deter her - she went after him hard and eventually pushed him to commit to her and drop me. She is a woman who got fired from her job and then sued her employer. Lots of red flags...

* It got more serious before he knew it and now thinks he is in love with her and wants to explore that path in his life. Note that they have only really spent like 40ish days together, though they communicated regularly by phone and email for the past 9 months. He is actually considering bringing her to New York City and supporting her!

* I discovered the affair accidentally in July and immediately kicked him out of our house in anger. (Regret this now.) I was hurt, but I never thought he would actually want to really be with her. Shortly after, I told him that I wanted him to come home and work together on our relationship.

* Since then, he has vacillated back and forth - confused about who to choose but seems to be leaning towards her. Says if he comes home now, he will be miserable.

* Tells me that he and I didn't have a deep connection and never talked about our future. Says he doesn't 'feel it' for me right now, and he thinks he needs to feel it before he can really work at it and reinvest. If I take an unbiased perspective, this seems very off to me - we were very close, best friends, talked 30 times a day about everything - we worked together, ride horses together and spent every moment together that he wasn't travelling. Feels like classic revisionist history. Also I'm sure that compared to his foreign HausFrau, who he has been in a passionate long distance romantic affair with, our connection seems more muted and less full of discovery. Also, if he is giving her all of his emotional connection, of course this would result in less love for me - you can't really work on two relationships at the same time!

* He has turned into a monster and a person I don't know. Ready to walk away from our wonderful life, home, financial security, dog, etc. Doesn't seem to notice or care that he has devastated me. Doesn't seem to miss me. How is this possible???

* I tried at first to reconnect with him. Spent a lot of time with him, didn't bring up the R/OW, showed him that I was fun and attractive and wonderful. (Interestingly, he says that I am amazing and has a ton of respect for me as a person - he also said that I am younger, prettier and we have better sex than the HausFrau.) We still have a ton of chemistry, and he even cheated on the OW with me on multiple occasions recently. I thought I was really drawing him back home, but then he suddenly backpeddles very hard.

* I was the most loving, supportive, kind fiance he could have had. I was totally blindsided by this. I know that sounds naive, but I think he fell into this not becasue there was something awful or broken with us, but I and my therapist believe that he is:

1. trapped in an affair fog and not seeing reality
2. has detached from me and our life in order to justify stuff to himself + he is emotionally attached to her (can't really work on our relationship while he is tied up in that, though he thinks he can and would just 'feel it')
3. immature about what real committed love is vs. infatuated affair love
4. maybe needing to explore other options in his life (mid life crisis?); feels like very selfish behavior to me - not about love!!! I also think that he has low self esteem and was stressed about work, other factors that may have contributed to his affair at the outset
5. content right now because the affair is filling some emotional needs that I used to fill
6. but ultimately still torn on some level
7. can't really be madly in love with the HausFrau if he is already cheating on her with me, right?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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Zimmy,

My marriage has been recovered for two years now :-). It's been great, now that we both know how to meet each others needs and avoid bad habits!

By tough love, I don't mean being a jerk. I mean that you must put boundaries in place, for you, and enforce them. So no, the two concepts are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they work beautifully together!

I will add that, in my opinion, you only try to be "super wife" for a short time before you separate yourself from your H. Unlike women (where H's should continue to try to meet their WAWs needs for even years), men tend not to respond in the same way. The better bet in the case of a WAH is to leave them with a good taste in their mouth, then turn them loose and let the A explode on them. Once it does, they'll be back on your doorstep, if you've left the light on. of course, I'll defer to your coach.

Take a look at Train's thread if it's still there. Like you, she had a WAH in an A and they reconciled earlier this year. There's a ton of good experience there for you to tap in to!

Stay strong,
-HS

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What a great post! Thank you! I am so glad to hear your success! Would love to hear what worked for you specifically! Will check out Train as well in the meantime!


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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Is it possible that he didn't love me enough and now he really just found his soulmate? Or is he a man who is just incapable of long term love and commitment because he doesn't know how to sustain it?

My mind keeps spinning from one end of the spectrum to another - that he got lost and will realize he made a mistake to maybe I just wasn't the right girl for him and that is why he cheated and left me.

Anyone have thoughts on this?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Sep 2014
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Happiness in not in having what you want, but rather in wanting what you have.

Soul mates, didn't love you more... Love is a choice. Being soul-mates takes work, hard work. True love isn't found. It's built from the ground up.

Don't try and figure him out right now. He's in a fog and not himself. You'll only drive yourself crazy. Instead, focus on being a wife only a fool would leave.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Gosh Jefe, you are so right. And I really was a good fiancé - I treated him kindly and with love, admired him, helped him succeed at work and supported him unconditionally, contributed fully to his lifestyle, gave him gifts and affection. We had fun together and I always could make him laugh. Maybe we could have had a bit more spark but after 7 years it wasn't awful.

My DB coach (who is awesome) says that there is some lesson he needs to learn for himself in all this. We'll see... Maybe he needed to learn how not to take real love for granted and recognize what it is.
.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: Jefe


Don't try and figure him out right now. He's in a fog and not himself. You'll only drive yourself crazy. Instead, focus on being a wife woman only a fool would leave.


There; fixed it for you. ^^^ cool

Seriously, it's an important distinction. As harsh as it sounds, Zimmy's husband has basically "fired" her as his wife right now. Through GALing and the other DB principles her job is to detach and portray herself as a WOMAN that any man would love to have, while communicating to her husband that while she doesn't WANT a divorce, she respects his wishes and she realizes that she's going to be okay as she begins to move on.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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You are correct, sir.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Thanks. This makes sense.

What happens to their attachment to us in these situations? Is it just buried temporarily while they are in the affair fog?

What about dating others as part of GAL? Does that help or hurt the situation?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Dating is an intensely personal topic, and highly controversial as well. I only did it when:

a) I had already filed for D;

b) I had totally moved on;

c) I let my wife know I was going to begin to date;

d) I clearly let the other woman (only ended up having one date) where I was at with my marriage.


Interestingly, it DID work -- immediately. But I wouldn't have ever done it just as a mere "tactic." I had to TRULY be done; otherwise, I was just fighting infidelity with more infidelity.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Starsky:

All good points. I still love my wayward fiance, but the old him - not the one who he is being now. He has broken my heart.

I am not married so that is not an issue. I don't feel like I owe him loyalty or have any duty to tell him. I am not ready to move on, but then again is don't know when and if I ever will be. Don't I need to start somewhere? I'm so scared that I'm going to end up bitter and alone while he is happy with the OW.

What do mean when you said it did work?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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I am having a rough night. Still in denial that I have been abandoned for a woman he barely knows. Not sure what I am going to do with my house (sell or fight to keep, just move out into a new apartment back in NYC, etc.), how to handle the upcoming holidays, etc. Really low.

Have considered really letting go and accepting that he has moved on. You know, all these books say that betrayal is never about the BS. For me, I think that is mostly true - I wasn't perfect but I was a good fiancé and didn't deserve this. And then I think, was it just that I wasn't good enough? That he really did find someone better for him? Sigh. Brutal thoughts.... Just venting.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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I am going to a betrayed spouses support group tomorrow night, which I am really looking forward to. Think it will be very sad but soothing to connect with others in person who have been through all this.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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Hi zimmy. Its been a few days and thought I'd check in and see how your doing?

Last edited by jim0987; 10/17/14 09:08 AM.

Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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I am totally dejected. Ex told me last Sunday (after returning from a weekend with her) that he had chosen her and wanted to figure out the sale of our house, etc. so we could both move forward. His eyes were blank and cold. I tried so hard to stay poised, but the tremendous hurt overwhelmed me and I couldn't control my reactions. I burst into tears and tried to get him to tell me why and I asked him how could he betray and abandon me like this? He basically ran from me because he didn't want to face what I was saying. Told me that he never meant to deliberately hurt me, but we are where we are, and he just wants something different now.

What happened to the man I loved? This replacement is awful. I am totally a mess - depressed, constantly crying, no interest in anything now, self esteem is crushed, having nightmares. It's unfathomable that he actually chose her in the end - I really thought I was starting to make progress and he was starting to lean back towards me at times.

Please somebody, tell me something of comfort. I can't bear this.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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Posts: 1,104
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Zimmy, have you talked to your DB coach about this yet?

Put you life info in you signature line, it helps so we don't have to dig through the thread the freshen up on your situation.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Hi zimmy. Best I can offer is a big transatlantic hug and to say that YOU will be OK.

Its horrible I know, most people on thus forum have been somewhere similar or worse Its heartbreaking now but good will come from this.

Look at some of the stories that are around of people who saved their marriage there are a few of those. There are way more of people who have saved themselves.

It hurts now and will for a while, but that's alright. It won't beat you if you don't let it.

Keep posting and other people with better advice than me will help you find your way.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
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Hi Zimmy

I'm so sorry - that's really rotten for you. It sounds as though all you can do is detach and let him get on with things. You are calling this the end, but only you can decide that.

But it sounds as though he has made his decision at least for now - although you could bear in mind the stats - only 3-5% of affairs end up as marriages and around 75% of those fail. But, that's a lot of waiting, and this may not be much help to you right now.

One thing I keep telling myself is that my happiness does not depend solely on my S. There are many other good things in my life - and I need to focus on the other good things right now. Only time will tell who is happier in the longer term.

He will have to live with the fact that he destroyed your relationship - and he may not end up all that happy in this relationship going forwards. You on the other hand know that you did all that you were possibly able to do to try and save things. I know which person I would rather be out of those two options.

That said, probably none of this offers much comfort at this point - but I do send my very best wishes to you....

Toots x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thank you Jim! That was so nice of you to reach out. These little things mean the world to me right now.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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Toots: thank you. That is actually comforting. I know I need to let him go and play this out - I have no choice in this, which is so unfair.

I went to look at apartments back in NYC yesterday. So depressing. I loved my home and my life. I loved him and put him on a pedestal every day. I don't know how he could just throw our life away.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 96
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Jefe: I have not spoken to her since Sunday's debacle. I wonder if there is even a point if this is really over? Don't I just need to accept that he doesn't want me anymore?

I did add my signature. Thanks for suggesting!


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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Posts: 1,104
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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
Jefe: I have not spoken to her since Sunday's debacle. I wonder if there is even a point if this is really over? Don't I just need to accept that he doesn't want me anymore?

I did add my signature. Thanks for suggesting!


Zimmy, only you can decide when it's over. I wouldn't give up just yet.

The reason I asked about the signature is I don't see one directly below. Like mine.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Posts: 1,720
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Hi zimmy.

Its up to you about the DB coach - they are solution focused and I'm sure a lot of people would say they have been brilliant.

DBing is worth it though. One of the first things I was told was that I need to become a man only a fool would leave - so that's my goal whether my W sees it or not.

So right now you don't need to accept it or not . that can wait - you need to focus on you, what you need to learn and how you want to be a better version of you. You'll hear this loads and its not easy to do but you need to try and detach from your current situation and focus on positives for you.

It'll get better and there are plenty of good people here for you


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Zimmy, I just read your sitch and I can tell how hard it's been. To have such a level of comfort, trust and commitment in a relationship and see it thrown away for... what? I send you my support.

Originally Posted By: Zimmy
Is it possible that he didn't love me enough and now he really just found his soulmate? Or is he a man who is just incapable of long term love and commitment because he doesn't know how to sustain it?

There's no way he found his soulmate on a plane ride. I'm not a big believer in soul mates, but if they exist, it can't hit you that fast. Infatuation is a much more plausible explanation for what he had. I've felt this instant connection with people a few times. I noticed that they come through special ways, like alcohol and quick confidences. The element of surprise, i.e. to get into deep conversations with a stranger on a plane, can make one feel like this is very special. In any case, I see a very plain explanation to his behavior. I'm able to see when it happens and to hold back, but your husband may have lacked the maturity.

I'm afraid they don't think of us when in the throes of passion. I know, it's sad. Just think of when you fell in love. Were you thinking about anything else? Did you care about your parents' disapproval for instance? Heck, for Romeo and Juliet, it made their R feel even more special. Us against the world! They'll never understand us and our love with all their down-to-earth logic!

I realized today that my W couldn't be with me because of the way I was in the R, but also that perhaps I can't be with her because of the way she left the R. I put that out there for you to reflect upon.

You say you've been together 7 years and that you were engaged. How long was the engagement? Is there something there, in the long engagement, that reflects some deeper issues in the R? I'm asking because you paint a fairly rosy picture of the relationship. It might be entirely accurate, but perhaps you need more time to understand all aspects of it.

PS: We still don't see your signature. If you've added it to your profile, have you checked the blue "add signature" checkbox on the left of your response box?

Originally Posted By: HopeFullStill
It helps to look at an A as an addiction. Addicts are only thinking of themselves and have trouble thinking logically. How this affects you isn't fully understood, because that requires empathy, and while in the fog they have very little, if any, empathy to access. Addicts lie, cheat and do anything they can, crazy or not, to get to the source of their addiction. It really not about you at all- affairs are very selfish indulgences that happen in a "bubble" so to speak.

Wow, that's powerful. I'm still not sure if my wife had an A (perhaps an EA, prior to separation) but it sure looks like her behavior. I even used the drug addiction metaphor before seeing it here.


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That quote about affairs as an addiction is indeed to true and so powerful.
I see that in my situation with my W's A.
The only thing is to turn to other sources of support because, for now, your W or H really has very little or nothing to give you.


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Mozza: Thanks so much for taking an interest in my story. It means a lot to me to have someone to talk to about all this.

I think your insights are dead on. The one observation you made about our long engagement is particularly acute. That is a long, somewhat sordid story and is the crux of any issues we may have. I will try to tell it as honestly as I can.

We got engaged in Aug 2009 after dating for 18 months. It was the best day of my life and the most romantic proposal I could have imagined while we were on vacation in Mexico. We were both super excited about the wedding and spent the following months in the fall happily planning the day.

However, shortly after the New Year in 2010, he dropped an unexpected bomb on me. I was working on some wedding planning while in bed late on a Sunday night and he seemed to be distracted, so I joked to him "What - you don't want to marry me anymore?" He turned to me with a face I had never seen before and he responded, "I'm not sure." I was flabbergasted - did not see this coming at all. We had just spend a very happy holiday season together and I wasn't aware of any issues.

When I asked him what was wrong, he really struggled to tell me, but he finally admitted that he was concerned that I had put on some weight over the latter half of the year (due to my very stressful job). I wasn't obese by any standards, but I definitely could have been taking better care of myself. On one hand, I understand that people should not let themselves go in relationships; on the other hand, I would hope that my partner wasn't so shallow or so cruel as to handle it this way. In any event, after talking through the issue a bit more, he apologized and told me that really loved me, I forgave him, and we seemed to get past this.

Fast forward to the day before Christmas in 2010: he drops the bomb again - this time says that he is having doubts about us, but couldn't seem to give me a reason (I had lost the weight). We split up over the holidays though were talking, and I went home to Detroit devastated and confused - had a miserable Xmas crying in front of the fire. Even worse, one of my single friends called me up to tell me that he had just checked out her profile on match.com, which meant he had just joined and was hunting for a new girlfriend. I couldn't believe he could move on so quickly. I called him up and confronted him and he immediately took his profile down - he told me that he wasn't ready to give up on us, and he didn't understand why sometimes these doubts crept in as he knew he loved me very much. When I got back to New York, we had a real heart to heart, he agreed to go to counseling, and we ended up getting back together.

Fast forward to Dec 2011 and yes, it happened again. He told me out of the blue that he wasn't sure about us. That 95% of the time he had been very happy, but sometimes he has doubts becasue he felt that being in our relationship would prevent him from doing other things in his life (though he couldn't actually name any things that he thought he was missing out on, and admitted that our relationship had brought him experiences he had never imagined having - for instance, I got him a job at Morgan Stanley, we traveled the world together, etc.). He told me that he realized that he was really messed up in the head, and he recommitted to working with this therapist. What came out of that therapy was that he realized that he was a very insecure person, didn't really know himself or what he wants in life, that he is not sure he is capable of being in a mature relationship, and that despite all of this, he really loves me more than anything and he wanted to try to make it work because we had such a special bond. He seemed devastated and very shamed that he had hurt me so repeatedly and could be so shallow and selfish.

After all this introspection, things really got better. We had our happiest years in 2012 and 2013. In Aug 2012 he asked me to marry him again and he seemed really settled and sure. We had such fun that year as I invited him to take up my sport (riding horses) and he fell in love with it - it was wonderful to share this with him and enjoy the sport together. In June 2013, we bought a house together and we were so excited about making this our forever home. We spent a lot of money on the horses in 2012 and 2013, and so as a result we pushed the wedding back to next year in order to get our finances in order. i didn't push the wedding planning because I was nervous about his prior freak-outs, and I didn't want finances to be a point of contention.

Of course, then the affair started in Jan 2014 and that was the end of that....

That is the very abridged version of the story. Bottom line is that I left out all the wonderful times - the fact that other than these horrible episodes where my fiance would freak out for ridiculous reasons, we were very happy. He was always very loving. He was my best friend - we shared everything (or so I thought). We had great sex. We were building a life together, and he told me he had never been happier than with me and he was so grateful for our life. I knew naively that he had some real internal issues / demons / insecurities, but I thought my love was strong enough to make him a better man. I believed in him.

You should also note he was married once previously to a woman he dated for 7 years, then married and then had doubts a year in and they divorced. I thought it was just becasue they weren't compatible and fought all the time, but maybe I don't know the whole story there...

Maybe I was stupid for hanging in there so long. I guess I wanted to believe in the happy ending and believe in the power of love.

Be gentle...


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Woah, what a load you dropped on us! So far, your story had been a fairytale of love for seven years, of best friends getting together, of buying a house recently, etc. Now, we see that there had been breakups, a twice-delayed wedding, a prior marriage (same duration!), etc. These are all important aspects of the story leading to the WAH.

For your own good, be transparent on these boards, otherwise you'll get a good whipping like 25yearsmlc just gave to billman12 (mandatory reading for all of us!). Much like you got to be honest to your doctor, you will get perhaps less reassurance and validation, but more useful advice and solutions. Of course, it depends what you are looking for and perhaps right now you need to be told something specific, but friends might be better for this.

My concern is that you choose to ignore the flaws in your relationship. It seems to have happened before as you were caught by surprise and never seem to understand why he would want to leave you. It might be a mystery, it might be all in his head, but there's also a pattern on your part, no?

I'm probably not as gentle as you'd hoped, but believe me, it's with your own good in mind. It's not easy for any of us, let's hang together and get through it.


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Mozza: Agreed with your observations. I hung in there all this time because I thought that what we had was special, we had gotten through some rough times before, and I believe in fighting for love/commitment - I believed in us and in him. I knew that he had issues in the past, but therapy back in 2011 seemed to make a huge difference and then we had a solid subsequent 2 years during which he recommitted to our relationship twice - first when he asked me to marry him again and second when we bought a house together. The last couple of years have been truly solid - no issues and lots of happiness. So hence the affair was a rather shocking revelation in light of this. I never thought he would cheat on me, despite his prior issues.

I wasn't trying to hide any of this. I alluded to some of this history in my thread and signature, while also trying to keep my history from expanding into volumes... But I agree that he and I had some patterns. Maybe I should have given up a long time ago, but I really loved him and I am somewhat stubborn to a fault, I guess.


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Thanks for sharing, Zimmy. I thought I had been a little too hard on you. It's sometimes hard to face everything immediately after the shock and also, we can't tell everything in the first couple of messages. I realized that there are still large swaths of my own relationship that I haven't shared yet, some might be crucial to understand the separation.

I agree with you that the last two years gave you solid ground to expect him to be committed for good this time. If you look at my recent post you'll see that my W had an A in 2009 and yet barely more than a year later, we conceived our second child. Three years later, she said she was moving out. It's hard to know if someone is really committed.

It looks like you'll need to be patient. You have the coming weeks and months to work on yourself. Learn from this experience, GAL, etc. It won't be easy at the beginning, so start with small things. Perhaps start with a list? But try to build on your momentum. And keep sharing with us.


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Thx Mozza - you were fine and I value your input. Pls let's stay in touch. I need friends like you!

If you had to analyze, what do you think is behind your wife's behavior?


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I'm glad if I can be of any help. We all need the support. You'd benefit even more of the attention of the vets though!

Originally Posted By: Zimmy
If you had to analyze, what do you think is behind your wife's behavior?

These are the reasons she gave me.
1. She was tired of the fights at home. They were too frequent and intense.
2. She didn't feel accepted because of all my criticism.
3. These behaviors had reduced her love for me.
4. She didn't see a future together.
5. Her new job had given her the last independence she needed: financial.
6. Her new colleagues made her see that another life is possible.

Here are additional reasons I can think of.
7. She has a strong flight reflex when things get tough.
8. She is narcissistic and places her immediate happiness above all else.
9. She is impulsive and will not look far ahead at the consequences of her actions.
10. She got a lot of male attention at work.
11. She was prodded by a divorced friend.

There may be more to it and I'm still sorting it out. I'm curious how I will see this list in a few months. Incomplete or too long? Indulgent or harsh?

Go ahead and make your own list now!


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Mozza:

Great (or at least thoughtful) list. Here's mine:

1. Insecurity; need for validation and ego boost from the OW, who is "lesser" and therefore he feels like a bigger man. She strokes his ego and says everything he wants to hear.
2. Narcissism and selfish tendencies - it's always about him.
3. Shallowness / lack of emotional depth. Lack of understanding of what committed lasting love is and entails.
4. Partial mid-life crisis - doesn't seem to know who he is, what he wants, afraid to commit and settle down when there may be other options out there.
5. OW gave him a glimpse of another life that he currently feels compelled to explore. Also in the affair fog and thinks the fantasy is the real deal.
6. Thinks that we should have prioritized our relationship more and gotten married sooner after we got re-engaged.
7. Ability to compartmentalize and detach from his feelings rather easily.
8. Conflict avoidant and doesn't communicate how he is feeling (probably because he doesn't fully understand his feelings). Turns off his feelings to avoid the guilt.
9. Ability to rationalize his awful behavior (we must not have been right if he was able to start an affair, it's not an affair becasue we weren't married and he's found his soul mate and it's not about sex, I should get over it since I will find someone better for me, we are where we are so there is no turning back, he doesn't feel "it" for me right now and he would feel it vs. the affair if we were meant to be together, he's not a cheater since he's never cheated before, never intended to hurt me / it just happened, etc.).
10. Parents have always enabled him and never put any pressure on him. Never learned how to cope with unpleasantness, conflict. Dad had a 9-year affair on his mom after 25 years of marriage and ultimately left for the affair partner.

Wow, that's a long, damning list. Sigh...

Also, he just emailed me with: "Hi. Thought we should try to talk tomorrow. Maybe by phone or email. I know there is a lot going on and I think it would be helpful."

Which means he wants to talk about the logistics of splitting up. Breaks my heart. I don't want this. I shouldn't want such a damaged person, but I miss the good side of him and all our wonderful memories. Do you think he will ever miss me?

So sad...


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Good work on the list. Also try to make a list that he would approve of, the kind of things that he probably says to his friends and relatives to explain why he's leaving you. It will help you to understand his point of view.

Originally Posted By: Zimmy
Do you think he will ever miss me?

Perhaps. Probably, in fact. But right now, he doesn't. Imagine he's on some kind of drug that will wear off in a few months. There's no talking to him. Abandon hope that he will not separate. Give him the space. Have you read DB or DR? Order one now. Think of surprising him with your change of attitude. He might not change his mind just now, but he'll think about it, now and later. Adopt a behavior for which you'll be proud. It's not just DBing, it's really the only reasonable thing to do.

If you've ever broken up with a boyfriend in the past, tap into that experience. I remember being completely detached after I had made my decision. I could not be reasoned or begged back into the relationship. Try to see things his way and you will have a better idea of what will influence him, eventually.

This phone call is not going to be easy. Lots of temptations to slip. Make sure you read the 40 newbie rules in the morning and just before the phone call. This is the kind of situation where most of us break down and come to regret it.


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All: Need some real emergency insight here.

Ex just emailed me with: "Hi. Thought we should try to talk tomorrow. Maybe by phone or email. I know there is a lot going on and I think it would be helpful."

Which means he wants to talk about the logistics of splitting up. (We jointly own the house, though he is only person on the mortgage. The house would be a huge burden financially for just one person, so I suspect he will want to force a sale. He also is the person named on my car's lease.) Breaks my heart. I don't want this. I shouldn't want such a damaged person, but I miss the good side of him and all our wonderful memories.

So my options are as follows:

1. Ignore him. Have my accountant outreach to him directly and negotiate the details since I am way too emotionally fragile and I have no desire or strength to watch us dismantle our life. Move out into my own apartment this week and move on - leave him with my dream house to sell and pay the full mortgage by himself. Go NC and leave it to fate. Hope that the reality of taking over all the bills by himself opens his eyes to the reality of the financial situation and the no contact helps him to miss me someday once the fantasy of the affair wanes. (Dreaming, I know...)

2. Be polite, kind, compassionate, mature. Tell him that I want to find a path forward that is fair and respects our love and history and working relationship. Try to leave him with a good impression of me / leave door open for friendship and relationship later. Still get my own place and protect my financial position but do it in a totally classy way.

3. Go nuclear. Tell him that the only way he gets me out of the house is if he drags me out. Make the process as difficult as possible just for fun. KIDDING - I wouldn't do #3, but it's fun to think about...

What do you all think? Door #1 or #2. He doesn't really deserve kindness and compassion - he certainly wasn't kind to me when he had the affair and abandoned me - but I also hope that he regrets his behavior one day and I want to be the better person. I keep repeating the following mantra to myself: DO THE RIGHT THING. So what is the right thing here?


Engaged Aug 2009
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His approved list might look something like:

* Really want to explore possibilities with the OW, who is wonderful and perfect and such a good person and makes feel amazing and jealous and insane - ahhhh, I'm so in love! (NOTE from Zimmy - gagged when I wrote this...). We have a deep connection that only we can understand. What we have can't be wrong - I am sorry that Zimmy got hurt, but that wasn't intentional, it just happened and the OW feels awful.

* There is something about the OW's simple life that is appealing. She has a normal 9-5 job and his a homebody, cooks, etc. (in contrast to Zimmy who is a successful and ambitious investment banker with many stressful responsibilities and works long hours).

* Don't feel in love with Zimmy anymore - maybe that means that I never really loved her and our relationship was never right, though I admit that we had a great 7 years together and I miss her and I will always love her. Things just ran their course.

* Something must have been wrong with my relationship with Zimmy to allow me to fall into an affair. Don't think we prioritized each other enough recently and should have gotten married sooner (he said that he thinks this was the initial crack that led to the affair). Fact that we broke up several times before is a sign that we weren't working.

* Have a right to be happy; shouldn't force myself to stay in a relationship if there is a better option. People break up all the time.

* Initially I was just naive and fell into the affair and things got far along before I really realized how far gone I was. Would never have imagined before this that I would jeopardize my life with Zimmy.

* I've caused too much damage and things have gone too far to turn back now. I've committed to the OW, and if I came home now I would be miserable. Need to play this out. Time will tell if I made the right decision (but I think I have).

Any of this sound familiar???? I have taken this pretty much verbatim from clues and bits and pieces of feedback he has given me.

As to your example of the break-up, they detach once they've made the decision because they don't want to be talked back into things. It's a total defense mechanism, and one which I am not sure how combat.

I have read DR. It's these really final conversations that always derail me, because I feel like it's really over, so I go into freak-out mode and lose my cool. I just sent a separate email to the group asking how best to handle this tomorrow. Welcome guidance. It's really hard to know what the right answer is. I guess it depends on how fed up you really are....


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Hi Zimmy - really sorry to hear of your situation, and good luck with your talk.

In DB terms, option 2 sounds like a better bet to me. You may want to spend some time listening and validating - rather than feel you have to make a response or decision. Have anoter look at the 37 rules before you speak to him and try to apply them.

Also, whilst you say he doesn't really deserve your compassion - I would see option 2 'the classy way' more as a gift to yourself. In that, during a difficult situation you remained centred, blanaced and strong.

If you aren't ready to make a decision, you can always let him know that you are thinking about things and that you have some decisions to make, without actually making them...

Hope this helps, and best of luck


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Nice work on the H's list. It's good to know how they rationalize their decision. As much as it doesn't make sense from our perspective, it has to make some sense from theirs. Until we understand that, we'll be in denial and weaker to address it.

As for the call, I admit I don't know enough to provide advice. Just remember that there's nothing you can say on this call to make him come back immediately. He will have to go all the way into his new R before coming back to you. This will take time and give you time. Sometimes, to find strength, I imagine that my W is only gone for 6-9 months and that I have to make the best of the time. I met a friend who was separated for only two months and he was regretful he didn't do more in the meantime.

Other times, I realize that my W is gone, maybe for good, and I just break down...


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If you want him back, or if you at least want to keep that option open for now while you decide, then think in terms of what moves the ball in the right direction.

Option 1 is a little cold. It may come to that in the end, but I think you should hear him out.

Option 2 is better. Always take the high road. Don't mention the "respects our love and history" part, though. Right now your love and history have no value to him at all, sadly. Really all you have to do with option 2 is listen to his proposal. Validate where possible, and give absolutely no definite response on any issue. Whatever he proposes, you'll "have to think about that."

Quote:
He doesn't really deserve kindness and compassion.
You have to bury this. He may not deserve it, but you're the adult here, so you give it anyway. I'm glad to see that you know you have to do this.

Finally, he said by phone or email. It can be really difficult to hold back emotion on the phone. email is definitely safest -- he can say whatever he wants and your reaction will be completely private. You will miss the opportunity to validate that you would have with the phone. Guess it depends on how much you think that is worth right now, and if you're sure you can hold it together on the phone.

good luck.

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Zew: thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with everything you said.

I decided to just forward his email to my accountant and have him outreach to the Ex and negotiate stuff. I really don't have the stomach for it right now. I am so angry with my ex for causing this situation where he is forcing me to dismantle my life. I'm not sure I can keep myself from unemotional outbursts.


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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
I decided to just forward his email to my accountant and have him outreach to the Ex and negotiate stuff. I really don't have the stomach for it right now. I am so angry with my ex for causing this situation where he is forcing me to dismantle my life. I'm not sure I can keep myself from unemotional outbursts.
This sounds very mature. There's what we should do, but sometimes there's what we can do.


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Hey guys. Rough night. Got another email from him today asking to talk so that we can sort out the separation so "we can move forward". I can't believe he is really pulling this trigger on our 7-year relationship. I am utterly devastated. How can he choose this awful OW over me - his loving, loyal and supportive partner? This is my worst nightmare.

You know, every morning I wake up and for just a moment I have this blissful few seconds of forgetting what my life is like now. And then it all comes back to me, and I think to myself, "did I dream it". And then the hurt comes back in full force.

The person he is today is like a stranger and so incredibly detached from me. I can't reconcile this monster with the man who just a few months ago was so loving and cuddly and excited about our life. Is this who he really is or is this who he has to be in a break-up where he is involved with someone else. I miss the old version every day, every moment. I don't know how he can't miss me or feel any remorse or question his decision to destroy our life for this woman / other life. People talk about the affair fog, and how when you are in the midst of the infatuation, the person in the fog does crazy, irrational hurtful things. Is that what is happening here? Is there any possibility that this wears off over time and one day he will look back with clearer eyes and realize what he lost. Would love to hear others' perspectives on this.

There are a lot of folks on here that are dealing with spouses in MLC. I don't know if that is a factor here as well. My ex is 42 almost 43, spent that last 15 years of his life working his way up on Wall Street, we just bought a house with a lot of financial responsibility, said things like "this year is going by so fast", seemed unsure about settling down / committing in the past, is always worried about getting older, etc., and then proceeds to fall into an affair and completely dismantle his life, saying that our relationship was great, but he just wants something different now. Or maybe he is just a pure commitment-phobe. Arghhh - why can't people just be normal and kind and loyal and be grateful for what they have? Is that too much to ask???

And how do I recover from this? My self esteem, confidence and excitement about my future are completely shot. My fiance was the most important thing in my life - I loved him profoundly. I would have given my life for him. And he abandoned me horribly.

My only solace is that during the month of September, he cheated on the OW with me several times as I tried desperately to rekindle our relationship. Guess she can't be his soul mate if he is already lying to and cheating on her... Wish I could forward her all the emails he send to me that proves this - maybe one day, just shortly before their wedding... How does it feel, you soulless, sneaky homewrecker...???? Sorry, I know that is mean...

Venting.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
Chose the OW Oct 2014
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I might not be the right person to chime in here but it doesn't sound "mean" it sounds like you're hurting. I understand that pain, and for a good laugh you should search for my old thread titled "is OW batshit crazy?" You need a good laugh, and the story of how my (soon to be ex) husband and the woman he called his soul mate broke up is just what you need.

For what it's worth my H was DEEP in the fog for a long time. And it was my decision to finally end things after I didn't think he put forth genuine effort into piecing.......


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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He's been abducted by aliens, that all I can say.

I can also identify with every single emotion you are having right now. Hang in there, it gets better. I promise.

"is OW batshit crazy?" Oh, Twinmom, I am so looking that one up. Too funny.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
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Thank you!!!!! I needed that! We should start a thread of OP karma stories...

How did you know that you had had enough? Do you think your husband has regrets?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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It appears that a lot of folks here have been abducted by aliens... and they all came back brainwashed with the same script. If you are going to go bonkers, at least be original...!


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
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We are all quite predictable unfortunately just in unpredictable ways. I never thought I was so obvious but turns out there is a book basically written about all my screwups.

It sounds like your hurting a lot, and that us perfectly normal. I go through cycles on this but my positive progress is when I focus on me and my issues - making me a better person.

And the more crazy and miserable my W gets the more confident I feel. That might sound harsh and vindictive but it supports the 'don't believe what they say and only half of what they do'

They are trying to escape something but chances are in the same way my insecurity was in me - what they are trying to escape is in them.

Last edited by jim0987; 10/24/14 07:34 AM.

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Hi Zimmy, I'd bet my bottom dollar she isn't his soulmate! Although, he may well be thinking that she is at this point in time. Also, bear in mind that in his R with her, he may be getting a need filled that wasn't filled in your R. And, hard as it is, that is an important thing to think about. Not just if you want you and he to potentially have a future - but for your own understanding of - why did this happen to us?! And as learning for future loving R's.

My H and I did have a number of talks about what happened and why. And I was glad of his honesty (many S's aren't honest at that point) and glad to understand more.

You are talking as though this is the end of your R - and I can understand that as it can all seem pretty bleak at this point for us all. But if you don't want it to be, this needn't be 'the end' - Presume if you haven't read DB & DR, you will do. I found DR better...

Main thing for now is 'coping' and having a sustainable plan for the next few months whilst you see how things unfold. One big piece of advice I followed is not to make any huge decisions about our R in the first 3 months of 'trauma' - make those sorts of decisions calmly and with plenty of thought. You don't want to look back and think - could I have done more to save our R. You want to be happy with your own part in this.

Toots x


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We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Thanks for updating us, Zimmy. I was wondering what was up. I would be dreading that phone call if I were you because I can barely handle any interaction with my W. Good luck, really.

I can tell you're hurting and here you find a lot of us who have a lot of empathy. We know that feeling in the morning because we've felt it every day for weeks already. Sometimes, I give myself a good, loud and physical cry. Can't say if it helps, but I wouldn't do without them.

As there will be some time before any of the dust settles, I encourage you to take a hard look at your R with WAH. Like all of us, you focus on what's positive because it feels that's what will make them stay. It leaves you wondering: Things were so great, how could he leave? You're right: if things were as good as in our memories right now, they wouldn't have left. To understand what happened and what we can do differently in the future (perhaps with them), we need a more comprehensive understanding of our R. It's not a step away from them, it's a step on the path to better, long lasting relationships.

Hugs.


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Oh zimmy I can tell you're hurting. You're right, our situations are very similar. From how you describe his many pullbacks from getting married, it does sound like he has some insecurity issues. You sound like a real go-getter, and I think you're on to something when you say that OW might have lower standards in a man. I'd bet that he feels less pressured by her (of course, all WAS feel less pressure from their APs, that's kindof the whole point), and sees a life with her where he doesn't have to sort his issues out. That is 100% what my W is doing right now.

I don't get the sense that this is over, at all. But I think we are in similar positions where we know what we want, and it might just be a lot longer before our WAS figure out what it is they want. Look for the silver lining in your separation, he now has the true opportunity to miss you. That's what I'm struggling with, a cake eating W who won't/can't leave, and is only digging her hole deeper. You are smart, you've got your kit together, you know what you've gotta do right now. It's ok to express your emotions, and feel the profound sadness and confusion, but once you've run thru all of those thoughts, the best thing you can do for yourself and your potential new R is to get out and do Zimmy better than you ever have. We all believe in you here!

Also, google "affair fog" and read the article that comes up first about its chemical components. You will find it describes your man to a T.


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Thanks Mozza and 1foot2. It's nice to correspond with others who understand what I'm dealing with and feeling. I can't help but hope that someday he will come to his senses. But there is so much broken glass now, and tomorrow I am moving out of our wonderful house likely never to see it again. Why did he have to do this? My heart is broken. I want to believe in the fairytale movie ending, where one day he wakes up, has a WTF moment, and moves heaven and earth to find me, apologize and beg me to take him back. But he is so far from that now, it seems impossible. It's like he has put me and all our memories in a shoe box and shoved them in the back of his brain closet so he doesn't have to deal with them and the reality of his actions.

I know that no relationship is perfect on either side, but no matter what I may have done wrong, nothing justified this outcome in my situation.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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Chose the OW Oct 2014
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"It's like he has put me and all our memories in a shoe box and shoved them in the back of his brain closet so he doesn't have to deal with them and the reality of his actions."

This is exactly what he's done.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
I know that no relationship is perfect on either side, but no matter what I may have done wrong, nothing justified this outcome in my situation.
Yes, I feel the same and this feeling has been echoed several times here. I also just had a realization today that might be relevant to your situation: the reason they might come back is not the past, it's the future of the R. No matter the beautiful moments, if our spouses don't see more of them in the future, they won't come back. That's why one of the DB principles is:

Originally Posted By: sandi2
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc.
So work on ways to create more beautiful moments in the future by working on yourself, by becoming a better person.

Good luck with the move. It will be difficult. I'll have a thought for you tomorrow.


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Thanks guys! So good to hear from you all! It's so nice to get responses! Makes me feel like I can cope and I am not crazy and alone.

Agree that I can use this time to be a better person and hope that he somehow notices through telepathy...

My therapist says he will need to dig out the old shoe box someday and this Tory isn't over, but we'll see.

I will tell everyone two more datapoints that give hope:

1. My parents had a really tough relationship due to financial pressures and alcoholism. They got divorced, my dad got remarried to a woman he was crazy about, who turned out to be crazy, and ultimately my parents got back together 4 years later and are still together. They have there ups and downs but work well together.

2. Just heard a story today about one of my colleagues who came home from a business trip only to find his house emptied and his fiancé gone with no warning. Wedding was canceled. My colleague, in a drastic move, took a job in Saudi Arabia a month later and left without telling the WAS. After about 6 months she realized the error of her decision and they got back together, got married and are now happy with 4 kids...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
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My H said he does not regret his actions just regrets the pain he caused me. THAT is part of the reason I am done.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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What an A$$.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
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Jefe..... you have no clue the crap I have been through..... you want to take your mind off your sitch for a while? Search and read my thread, although you might feel the urge to physically hurt my H........

Sorry to hijack......

It's rough, I get that. But the hardest part is after they come home. I didn't make it. I can be here to sympathize with you right now though. You feel like you would give anything for him to be home, that it would be so much better if OW were out of the picture...... I get it and I am here to give virtual hugs and try to make you smile.


Me: 35 husband:39
Sons 16 and 11 from my first marriage
Twins 5 (boy/girl)
Daughter 3
Affair bomb 2/27/14
He moved in with ow 3/13/14
OW kicked him out 6/15/14
4/2016 he seeks help for sexual addiction



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Zimmy..I feel your pain and have been going through a very difficult situation as well. My husband of 16 yrs chose to be with one of my good friends..very devistating for our family! Most of what I hear is to just focus on becoming the best we can be. That might be anything from starting a new hobby or working out at the gym but something that makes us feel good about ourselves! Be strong and he will realize what he's lost! Hopefully sooner than later for the both of us smile


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Thank you intime. I am so sorry to hear about your situation. It's unbelievable what they are doing to us.

I am packing up my house by myself and crying the whole time. I can't believe this.


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
Fiancé is confused about whom to choose
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Do you believe that down the road they will realize what they've lost? On one hand I can't believe that my ex wouldn't see reality once he sees reality. On the other hand, if he is so sure of his decision right now, why would that change? He tells me that we had a great relationship but now he just wants something different, maybe someone who is not so much alike...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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Zimmy. I have been on both sides of the equation. I was once a wayward spouse. Yes, there will be a reckoning one day. You cant walk out in the middle of a relationship and start a new one the same day, or the same month, or the same year for that matter, and not have an awakening at some point. But it comes on it's own and no outside force can bring it about any sooner.

Listen to NOTHING he says. The fog has warped his brain.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
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Jefe - thank you, thank you! Would love to hear more about your experience while wayward - what happened, why, how did you detach, etc.? It helps me to believe that there is a chance for the fog to dissipate...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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I encourage you to go back to my situation from the beginning. That will paint a clearer picture than I can do in one or two posts.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
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Zimmy..

It truly is unbelievable..how could these men love us so dearly one day then the next be totally detached?? I have no answer but I'm going to keep loving my husband regardless of the situation and as long as we have love in our hearts we can either reconcile if they come out of the fog or move on! It is so sad and very hard but be strong, we can do this!


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Intime:

I know! It's like they've gone totally insane suddenly. My situation started in June when he turned to me at 11pm at night just as I was about to fall asleep and said, "I'm just not sure I'm excited about getting married anymore..." Out of the blue! Of course, he neglected to mention he'd been having an affair for 5 months... Then he tells me that his decision to leave me had nothing to do with her - he actually believes this ridiculousness! Until he met her, we were very happy and excited about our future. We had just bought our dream home!

Some moments I'm ok and realize that he was really messed up and has serious character flaws and that all this had nothing to do with me. But most moments I'm crying, miserable and wondering what happened to the man I once loved.

I packed up all my things and moved them into storage yesterday. It was the most painful experience so far, because it's so final and I don't think I really believed this was happening till then. I kept running across all the evidence of our great life and memories.

I too pray that the fog lifts and we can find our way back together someday. I know he must miss me sometimes but I don't know why that isn't enough to compel him to come home (other than he is filling his needs with her). I worry that because I had to tell our work colleagues we had broken up because he had an affair (I was falling apart and needed to explain why), that there is too much broken glass. On one hand, I wish that I could have kept a lid on all this better, but on the other hand I needed to protect myself and be honest. If I had to do this again, I would have kept the disclosure tighter. Some books tell you to out the affair as broadly as possible to try to break up the fantasy, but in my case he was so deep in the fog and the rationalization, that I'm not sure it worked like it was supposed to - he just buries the guilt and the shame...

What about you? How are you coping today?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
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Just venting. When do the pain and feeling of intense loss go away? When will I start to have anything to look forward to again? I am so depressed. Just a bad morning, I guess...


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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It just takes time. Some days I feel great, others awful. From what I've read about you, you have a lot going for you and deserve someone more mature about relationships. I have confidence in you. Think back to a hobby or a project you might have stopped doing when your R started and start doing that again!


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Its easy to dwell on the negatives which is why you have to really try and focus on the positives

Easier said than done I know

Youre doing good and you'll be fine


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Congratulations for the courage it took to move your stuff out of the house. May the move help you heal. I didn't mind staying in the family apartment, but now you make me doubt whether this is getting in the way of detaching. My W being in a brand new apartment surely help her moving on (she doesn't seem to need any help).

As for the pain, five weeks after my W left, I would say that the highs are more common and longer, but the lows are just as low as 10 minutes after she left. I was hoping for better, but there is an improvement and we have to be patient.


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I just got the following email from him. Pls help me interpret!!! What do I do with this?

Hi. I just wanted to say hello and that I was thinking about you. I care very much about you, Zimmy. I continue to learn new things about myself and our relationship. There is so much I wish I would have done differently over the last 7years. I know how much you did for us and for me during that time. I wish I would have done more for you. I wish I would have made you my priority like you made me yours. I wish I had communicated better. I wish I would have recognized and appreciated your dedication and commitment....and everything you did for our relationship. I wish I would have reciprocated that back to you. You deserved it all and more. I see you now better than ever. Wherever life leads, I am determined to be a better person.

I know I have caused an unimaginable amount of pain. That burns my heart every day. Please forgive me for writing this email. I know your wishes. I know you want / need some time to yourself. I respect that completely. I'll leave it at.

You know I love you,
C


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
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Regarding last post:

Oh great, now he is going to be a better person with HER! This makes me sick! He is right - he took me for granted all those years and now he figures it out, in time to be a better man for the OW???. Somebody kill me now...

Why did he need to send this? He isn't rethinking his decision to split up, right? So is he just trying to be kind? I feel like it's a final goodbye letter trying to make me feel better and I just got broken up with all over again!

Thoughts?


Engaged Aug 2009
Fiancé had doubts Jan 2010
Happily re-engaged July 2012
Discovery of affair July 2014
Separated July 2014
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Hmm, sounds like second thoughts to me. Sounds like he is starting to realize he f'd up.

Just my, never to be humble, opinion.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
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But S-L-O-W D-O-W-N...


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
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I concur with jefe.


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I agree - sounds like there is some regret there, rather than a final goodbye. BUT - it is common for WS to swing like a pendulum. One day thinking - this is the right decision - and then the next day - Oh no! Then back again etc.

So, I wouldn't set too much store by it. But good to see a chink of remorse creeping in there...


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Definitely be slow on this. Sounds like second thoughts but it might just be testing to see if he still has a plan B and who wants to be plan B?


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These mixed signals can be traps. We get our hopes up, show our obvious desire to get back together and they shut down the door on us, apparently regretting their openness. I really wish a veteran would come to give you proper advice here. Have a look at the 37 rules or the books for inspiration, perhaps.

To put myself in his shoes: when I left my gf of 5 years a long time ago, I was full of guilt for causing her pain and I hoped that she would be happy without me, but I had no desire to go back with her. I know this is not hopeful, but at this stage of selling the house and just getting with the OW, I doubt he'll give your what you're hoping for. This is already a lot and I'd see it as a baby step. Perhaps something to be hopeful for a later time.


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Paging Starsky, Paging Starsky


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Time to take the high road Zimmy. Maybe wait for a vet to chime in but I think you can craft a masterful, brief response to this. I see our situations as very similar (our WAS' only slightly acknowledge their role in our Rs decline, and are seeking someone else with lower standards so they don't have to confront an adult responsibility). This is clearly remorse, and a good sign, but far from the real thing.

Don't read negative thoughts into this. Don't think of OW. Your fiancé is trying to tell you something, but is clearly struggling with his communication. That's all this is. The temptation is to read into the WAS statements as if they are these complex, rational, completed thoughts, like they are a Supreme Court ruling or some such. They are not. BUT: he is trying to say something to you.


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I don't get the sense that he is regretting his decision to leave me and choose her. I think that he is taking responsibility for the fact that he took me for granted and let the OW into our lives by not realizing what he had. And maybe he is realizing that he had a great person in me and he should have cultivated that more sooner. But it's not like he is ready to change his mind. Maybe he is just trying to assuage his guilty conscience with this becasue on some level he does "care" about me (pffffff), but I guess not enough


Engaged Aug 2009
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Mozza: Why did you break up with your girlfriend? I think he does feel guilty for this break-up and the way he handled things so that is probably some of this. He probably doesn't want me back right now as he is "committed" to this OW (UGH!!!!!! how ridiculous when he was committed to me too when he took up with her!), and he is still in the throes of trying to figure out this other life. I just hope he crashes and sees that the grass isn't greener someday and misses me. I truly was good to him. Do you think it is possible to be too good to someone?


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Oh yes, Starsky - where are you? Is this message a goodbye message forever? Or should I be hopeful that he has some conscience and maybe once this stupid affair runs its course, he might look back at me more realistically? Ugh. I worry that this email is his way of giving himself closure and its really over...


Engaged Aug 2009
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Happily re-engaged July 2012
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1foot2 - You email is is like a clever code! He is trying to tell me something, but who knows what it is. Probably no more than it says. He wishes he had been a better partner so that he had realized what he had when he had it, didn't leave the door open for an affair and end up here. But we are where we are now, he is in love with her and not with me (though he certainly cares for me). Didn't mean to hurt me with all this and hopes he learned from it. Realizes now what an amazing fiance I was and how much I gave of myself, but apparently not enough to change anything. Sigh. It's like being broken up with again and again and again...


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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
Mozza: Why did you break up with your girlfriend?
It was some 12 years ago. I broke up with her because I was bored with her and didn't see a future together. I had become unpleasant with her, probably because I wanted out but also because she couldn't keep me in my place ($2 psychoanalysis). Also, I was about to go abroad for a year and it was not the kind of relationship worth waiting for. I simply didn't want to be with her anymore. She was perfect though: blonde, blue eyes, valedictorian, med student, competitive swimmer, super gentle and never upset... I used to joke that she was perfect. She just didn't take her space in the relationship. So perhaps, yes, it is possible to be too good to someone.


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While we're paging starsky, I'd toss it out there for him to have a look at my thread. Contemplating and struggling to change to a more forceful approach. (Sorry to hijack zimmy!)


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So I continue to agonize over his stupid email. Why did he send it? To assuage his guilt probably and be kind (trying to make me feel better)? He says that he has learned a lot about himself and our relationship and wishes he hadn't taken me for granted - that he sees me better now. But if that were all true, then he should realize how great a life we had and how much I loved him. No one will ever care for him and put him first the way I did. Unfortunately, he may need to figure that out the hard way and it absolutely sux. I think he thinks that the OW will do the same for him going forward and now he will treat HER better.

Is it possible that this is all the regret I will get, or will he become more regretful over time when he realizes the grass isn't greener, and he threw away something wonderful (amazing home, me, our dog, our future, our financial security, our shared hobbies) to be with a woman he barely knows and has nothing in common with? I want to be the one that got away and maybe he will try to outreach again someday with more...

Despite everything, I really want us to find each other again someday. I wish I knew how to effect this. I will make an appt with my coach today, becasue I don't know what to do and I feel so powerless.


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Just a thought: perhaps your response should hint that you're glad he's made some progress, but he still has a long way to go. Not so directly, but along those lines. It's good that you'll speak to someone more versed in the DB method. Keep us posted.

Originally Posted By: Zimmy
No one will ever care for him and put him first the way I did.
Twelve years ago, my girlfriend told me about the same thing. It wasn't a good argument to stay with her. What we want in a couple is to love first, even more than to be loved (though we want both!). Don't focus too much on how much you love him, think of how he can love you again. This morning, I spoke to someone who recently broke up and he did say that his ex-gf's behavior could bring him back because he's touched by it. It gave me some hope.


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Mozza: agree. He used to love me very much, but I think he took me for granted a bit in the end. But I think sometimes you realize what you had only when you've lost it.


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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
I just got the following email from him. Pls help me interpret!!! What do I do with this?

Hi. I just wanted to say hello and that I was thinking about you. I care very much about you, Zimmy. I continue to learn new things about myself and our relationship. There is so much I wish I would have done differently over the last 7years. I know how much you did for us and for me during that time. I wish I would have done more for you. I wish I would have made you my priority like you made me yours. I wish I had communicated better. I wish I would have recognized and appreciated your dedication and commitment....and everything you did for our relationship. I wish I would have reciprocated that back to you. You deserved it all and more. I see you now better than ever. Wherever life leads, I am determined to be a better person.

I know I have caused an unimaginable amount of pain. That burns my heart every day. Please forgive me for writing this email. I know your wishes. I know you want / need some time to yourself. I respect that completely. I'll leave it at.

You know I love you,
C


Zimmy, I'm afraid I don't know enough about your sitch nor your fiance to even be able to give you a clear opinion on this. Has he ever been married or engaged before? Is this woman the only person with whom he has cheated on you during your engagement?

If it were me, I wouldn't respond nor would I read too much into this. People while they are wayward tend to be pretty fogged out, and it does sound like he may just be trying to relieve his own guilty conscience here. If I DID respond, I'd probably recommend a confident "Thank you for sending this. I'll be okay. While this isn't what I wanted, I do realize now that I"ll be fine and a better person and wife to someone down the road. I wanted that to be you, but if it's not I think we'll both be okay." (or something similar that fits your sitch).

Starsky


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Thanks, Starsky. Appreciate the insight. Very nice of you. He was married once before - dated her for 7 years and then married for just one. So similar pattern to me. This is the only woman I am aware of, and he seems like he is deep in the fog.

I think I prefer not respond. I am definitely not ok with any of this.

I worry that he is just trying to be kind, but it is actually more hurtful to me to hear all this. He is blowing up our whole life for this ridiculous OW - says he just wants something different. It is so hard to fathom. My therapist tells me that eventually the fog will wear off and he will be disappointed and start to see reality and think back to how good our R was...


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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
Thanks, Starsky. Appreciate the insight. Very nice of you. He was married once before - dated her for 7 years and then married for just one. So similar pattern to me.



I'm sorry to say it, but this is a HUGE red flag.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
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Yes, he always just told me that they were friends and should never have gotten married. He said that after they married all they did was fight, etc.

When he met me he seemed so amazed by how we fell in love, had a fairytale, got along so well, etc. Then of course, he now seems to feel the same way about the OW.... though he and I were quite happy and I didn't see this coming at all.


Engaged Aug 2009
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Originally Posted By: Zimmy
My therapist tells me that eventually the fog will wear off and he will be disappointed and start to see reality and think back to how good our R was...



Possibly, but then what? String you along another 7 years, only to run for the hills as soon as he smells true commitment?

I think this man may have issues that are beyond the scope of this forum, Zimmy. I know you have a lot of years invested here, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses. This to me doesn't sound like a man of quality, and you're NOT going to be able to "fix" him!


Starsky


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Yes, sadly I'm sure you are right. I am so flabbergasted he could act this way and lie and cheat and do all these terrible things to me, when I would have never hurt him in a million years. It's truly sick.

Thank you for taking the time to opine. It means a lot to me.


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You keep talking like your M was wonderful and he's a sadistic @$$ for leaving. When you first came on here it didn't sound all that great and it wasn't until he had someone else that you started making changes.

Right now he left to be happy or at least trying to do what he thinks will make him happy. Stop concentrating so much on him and give him space.

btw you need to start anew thread.


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That's not entirely true. We had a very good relationship for most of our time together and there was nothing to warrant this treatment of me. I am not glorifying him at all - he is very flawed, but I gave him the best life he could have had.

And trust me - he has all the space he could want right now. I'm not going to respond or have any interaction with him except what's necessary for work.


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"We had a very good relationship for most of our time together and there was nothing to warrant this treatment of me."

I'm not saying that he should treat you negatively, but I don't see where he's doing anything to actually go out of his way to hurt you. I mean, he's trying different things that he believes will make him happy. Just because you're not in that equation doesn't necessarily mean that he's "hurting" you.

"I am not glorifying him at all - he is very flawed, but I gave him the best life he could have had. "

Okay now you're just mindreading. That's from your perspective. Evidently he felt otherwise. There are no perfect relationships.

I mention all this because it's a typical phase that LBS's go through. They start coming up with their own rewritten history where they were perfect and the WAS was always the wrong one. Then they stop their "changes" and go back to old habits and wonder why the WAS hasn't come back yet. It happens.


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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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