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#2494316 10/05/14 04:04 PM
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Hi. I am new here. Have been reading some posts for the last 3 months. While trying to figure things out. My wife and I have been together for 9 year. Married for 7. We have young wonderful girls that I deeply love.
For the last few years out marriage has slowly deteriorating. We do not fight much but rarely talk or communicate. Part of that is due to kids, life and a my busy work schedule. Part of it may be that I have always been quiet and never liked to talk about my feelings. This spring after a holiday we went on together that did not go so well. My wife told me that she loves me but is not in love with me. I guess our relationship has always been sort of a tic for tac kind of relationship. (why to you get to go out when I don't etc) Before getting married we would have sex lots. Then after getting married we would have sex about 1-2 a year. This was very hard for me and I held a lot of resentment for it and blamed her. I have now found that the sex issue was both of our fault. I did not open up to her so she did not feel physically close to me
After the ILUBNILWY talk I was hurt and frustrated. She said she was had tried to make marriage work but felt I did not. Looking back I can see she did but at the time I was immersed in my work or just to stubborn to see it. We went to MC a couple times but she felt it was not working and I guess I was still to hurt/frustrated to make it work.
I always felt that I wanted control of my life so after MC did not work I set out to find another place to live (she felt it was best for the kids to stay at there house with mom). And Told her I wanted to get a new start on my life. We went to mediation to figure out best way share time with the kids. At mediation it clicked/dawned on me that I still really love my wife and family and want to do anything possible to save it.
I started to read books, research on the internet. That is when I found DB. SO I read DR and am currently reading DB. I did a 180. Told the wife I loved her and did not want to separate. Started to give her word of affirmation (her LL, mine is acts of service which I always did for her...hindsite) I tried to be a good friend. Validating her. Started working out (GAL), and always tried to be upbeat happy around her. I thought it was working as she started to talk more with me and maybe enjoy being around me. (She always said that she had a heavy heart when around me and felt like there was a weight on her)
Then this week happened! She felt more distant. When ever I would come home from work or come into the room she was in (we still live together) she would leave.
I never had time to talk to her to see what was wrong b/c she would leave the room right away. So I left her a note saying "that I felt she was not happy and that I hope she could talk to me if there was something she wanted to say".
I got this email back "Yah I guess I am getting pretty frustrated as time goes on. I hate this situation that we're in.... It's the worst. For some reason as soon as you walk through the doors I feel like I am dead inside. I hate the fact that I feel like I want to hide when you're home mostly because I feel like when I'm avoiding you I'm also avoiding the kids. I definitely don't want to be hiding from the kids. I think I hide because I can't handle putting up the fake front any more. I know you are trying and you won't say it but I can tell you still have hope for things to work out. I know you are trying to be what you think I want, but it's making me feel smothered. I think you are thinking you can fix things and change my opinion but unfortunately sometimes things just can\t be "fixed". The love is either there or it isn't. Like you said in the other email, we were just not getting what we both needed out of the marriage for so long that the damage was permanent. I think it's great that you have such a positive attitude and are wanting to compliment me, etc. but at this point I think it's starting to make me feel uncomfortable, which makes me feel bad because I know you are only trying to be nice. I give you huge props for trying and handling it the way you have been. I just don't think I can go on like this for much longer. I think it's almost time we start looking at a game plan for how we are going to move on in the future. "
I am crushed, lost, don't know what to do. I think she is just confused. I pretty sure there is no OM. I love my wife and my family and would do anything to save it. I would love any for of help/support/advice
Please Help!


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zed #2494597 10/06/14 05:07 PM
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W has checked out. Confirmed with her and she said she check out 6 months ago. She says she has no love for me. Wants to separate and wants ME to move out. Which I don't think is faie as she is the one that is giving up on our family. I don't know if I'm thinking clearly. But I guess the best thing to do is detatch, detatch, detach and GAL.


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zed #2494613 10/06/14 06:03 PM
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Hi. Sorry for the sit b you find yourself in. Work on you and stay strong

rd500 #2494706 10/06/14 09:03 PM
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Just venting/thinking/pondering. W was depressed for last 4 years. I thought I tried everything to try to make her feel better and support her. Was there more I could have done? Most likely yes. About 1 year ago she started to get into meditation, reiki, talking to a life coach. She was getting happier. I was so happy for her that she felt that she was getting happy. Now I think this may be like an EA. She is on such a high that she thinks that b/c things were not really great in our marriage that she doesn't want to work on it b/c she feels it brings her down.


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zed #2495014 10/07/14 06:12 PM
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Welcome aboard. What other things have you noticed about your W? Has she started dressing differently, guarding her phone, being gone from the house a lot, hanging out with new friends?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2495015 10/07/14 06:18 PM
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And don't move out of the family home.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2495023 10/07/14 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Drew
And don't move out of the family home.


x 2. In fact, x 10. Check with a good family law attorney, but in many jurisdictions this can then be considered as "abandonment" and used by your wife against you in a legal action.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
sandi2 #2495780 10/09/14 10:21 PM
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Yah she is dressing differently. Spending more time with friends. No new ones. Just ones she has known for a long time. She doesn't guard her phone.


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Yah a friend of mine mentioned to talk to a lawyer b/c maybe I was not thinking clearly. The l said absolutely don't move out. Talked to my DB coach the other day as well and she echo'd the same thing. Coach mentioned that if moving is not something you want to do then don't do it. Do stuff for yourself not b/c the W wants you to. I know wife will be mad as she thinks it will be easier on the kids if she stays in the house with the kids and I move out.(have had many coversations about this). She keeps trying to use the "its going to be easier on the kids" line to make me feel guilty/bad. But as coach said she is the one who wants to break up our family not me.


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zed #2495782 10/09/14 10:36 PM
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Plus side I have been able to keep myself very busy. I volunteered to manage D6 and D4 ice hockey team. Which is challenging but I'm starting to like it. W gave me the guilt trip on that one as well. "don't we have enough on our plate" I calmly said I doing it for me. I did not ask for any of your help. She was mad the other day as well as she keeps phoning/texting asking me questions when I'm at work on how to do stuff. The other day I said I was too busy at this moment but can help when I get time. She got mad/frustrated with me and hung up. When I got home I told her. I do not appreciate you getting angry b/c I could not help you at that time, do you still need help. She said in her angry tone. NO I DO NOT.


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zed #2495786 10/09/14 10:45 PM
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She keeps telling me about all the reading she has done about divorces and how the kids handle it good when they are young. She said D6 probably wont even remember it. She says if we stay civil after S then it will be easiest on the kids. But if we stay in same house it will be hard on kids as there will be tension and the kids will see the tension. We never fight in front of the kids. . But every time I come in a room she leaves b/c W feel uncomfortable.


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zed #2495884 10/10/14 05:20 AM
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Zed,
It seems like you are on the right track. As others have mentioned, don't move out. In my sitch my WAW wanted to continue her EA (not physical that I know of). So, initially doing and saying all the wrong things, I was coming to the decision to move out. I didn't and she went ahead and signed a 6-month lease on a rental home.

I wish I could give you advice on feeling the voids where you didn't in the past, but similar to your W, mine noticed the changes and said pretty much the same things as your W.

Lastly, I'm not recommending snooping or questioning, but in my opinion its just hard for me to believe a young-aged couple ML 1-2 a year and now the WAW just wants to walk away and no EA of any sort is going on. That was just my opinion, but given how she's trying to push you out, IF an EA is going on I think she'll probably reveal it sooner or later..


Me:30 W:34
M:8 T:9
D:9 D:4 D:3 S:4 S:1
D bomb: 8/2014
S 12/2014
PA Confirmed in 3/2015 if I recall correctly
zed #2496369 10/12/14 03:13 AM
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I’m having troubles try to tell W that I don’t want to move out and if she want space she will have to be the one moving out and that the kids will be staying with me. Everyone tells me that I should not move out friends, Lawyer, C. Loose time with kids; lose any gull if divorce happens. It is not my decision to split. She’s got to deal with the consequences.
But I want her back so much that I am worried that she will get mad, resentful and push her away further. Maybe she just needs space so…. Do I crater. Give her everything that she wants and hope she changes her mind? Or do I grow balls tell her how I think it should be and risk losing the love of my life?
I so much want to tell her how much I love her and do not want S to happen. That I know we did have issues during our marriage. That I believe they were small issues and just communication problems and that I believe we could be happier than ever before. I mentioned it before, but maybe she still doesn’t really believe me. But she seems confident that she does not love me, that there was too much damage done (what damage?) and that you either love someone or you don’t. If I could just go back a year and knew how much she didn’t feel loved this probably would have never happened.


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zed #2496370 10/12/14 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: zed
But I want her back so much that I am worried that she will get mad, resentful and push her away further. Maybe she just needs space so…. Do I crater. Give her everything that she wants and hope she changes her mind? Or do I grow balls tell her how I think it should be and risk losing the love of my life?
I so much want to tell her how much I love her and do not want S to happen. That I know we did have issues during our marriage. That I believe they were small issues and just communication problems and that I believe we could be happier than ever before. I mentioned it before, but maybe she still doesn’t really believe me. But she seems confident that she does not love me, that there was too much damage done (what damage?) and that you either love someone or you don’t. If I could just go back a year and knew how much she didn’t feel loved this probably would have never happened.


So much to cover here.

1) Stick to your guns and Lovingly explain your position about staying. I had to tell my wife, You're the one who wants to leave so you need to leave. But understand you're leaving us and everything else. I know it seems like the opposite of what you should do, but stick with it.
2)She already knows you love her and don't want the S/D. Trust me, I blew it today by telling my wife...DON'T DO IT! She believes that YOU believe you guys can be happy. Where she's at right now she doesn't see it.
3)She's a potential WAW, she is completely operating from emotion right now. She doesn't feel loving right now and she is having a hard time understanding that feelings come and go. She is in self centered mode. Just stay the course.

You have to let her get to a place where she can look up and go: "Crap, how did I get here?" so she can see her own actions that led up to it. That'll never happen as long as you keep jumping in the middle and give her more reasons to blame you. Trust me, I just did the same thing in my situation and reset the clock all over again, I'm afraid.

Zed, let me catch up on your situation a little better and I'll offer some more.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
zed #2496624 10/13/14 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Or do I grow balls tell her how I think it should be and risk losing the love of my life?


Whenever I see a man question if he needs to grow b@lls, I can't help but grin a little bit, b/c he has answered his own question. Everything that makes him a male is telling him to act the part of a man. I don't think you can act the part of a man as long as you fear making her mad at you.

It's not about trying to make her do what you know is right. It is about you making the right decisions for yourself and your kids. Having the attitude of "This is not what I want (a divorce) but I won't stand in your way of getting it". As soon as you let go of her, you will be able to show a man who has grown a pair. A man who is not dependent on his W to make him happy. A man who can have a life with or without her. A man who lays down personal boundaries, and if those boundaries are disrespected, then he makes decisions accordingly.

In other words, stop trying to get her back. It turns men into weak sisters when they do that stuff! If she wants back, she will find you and ask what it will take to work out things.(Or similar words to that effect). Stop being afraid you will "push" her further away. Often times, when the WAW thinks she is getting what she wants.......she will question herself. If she realizes she does love you and decides she does want you, then you acting like a man couldn't push her away. Seeing you act like a self respecting man is attractive to her.

The WAW coming back is a process for her. She has to reach the conclusion on her own. That requires the LBH none assistance in her life. Allow her to discover things on her own. It is much better for her to return out of free choice, rather than pressure.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2496641 10/13/14 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2


It's not about trying to make her do what you know is right. It is about you making the right decisions for yourself and your kids. Having the attitude of "This is not what I want (a divorce) but I won't stand in your way of getting it". As soon as you let go of her, you will be able to show a man who has grown a pair. A man who is not dependent on his W to make him happy. A man who can have a life with or without her. A man who lays down personal boundaries, and if those boundaries are disrespected, then he makes decisions accordingly.

In other words, stop trying to get her back. It turns men into weak sisters when they do that stuff! If she wants back, she will find you and ask what it will take to work out things.(Or similar words to that effect). Stop being afraid you will "push" her further away. Often times, when the WAW thinks she is getting what she wants.......she will question herself. If she realizes she does love you and decides she does want you, then you acting like a man couldn't push her away. Seeing you act like a self respecting man is attractive to her.

The WAW coming back is a process for her. She has to reach the conclusion on her own. That requires the LBH none assistance in her life. Allow her to discover things on her own. It is much better for her to return out of free choice, rather than pressure.


Reading that put me in a good mood, sandi. Friendly neighbor, sure. But it's time to learn boundaries. I will admit, I will probably question letting the wife leave AND take the kids with her somewhere down the line (although I get plenty of time and a tight geo restriction). I probably did it wrong/weak. She was/is being reasonable and the risk/reward equation of fighting her didn't make sense - short or long-term.


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D21, SS15, S11, D8
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EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Thanks. Yes, we have to have boundaries even with friendly neighbors. smile

Zed, I hope you will keep your calendar full of GAL for yourself.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2496985 10/14/14 03:39 PM
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Finally had a constructive conversation last night. I'm in Canada so it was thanksgiving long weekend. I was not working so I made plans with the kids. Went to do something fun on sat. Invited W, which she declined. Sun, bummed around house. W took kids to relatives for thankgiveing supper. Did not want me to come so I went to a friends. Monday took kids to my sister's for Thanksgiving invited W she declined. Got home W told me she thought I was hording kids. She said I never spent a whole bunch of time with them before so she feels I am trying to win them over her. I calmly said. Before we were in this spot any weekend I would have off we would do something fun with the family. So nothing really changed expect you did not want to go. She opened up a bit and I could she was mad and angry. She said I always put work before the family. And now it seems like you are spending more time with the kids to hurt W. I said I can see how it seems like that. But it is not what I want to do at all. I want you to spend time with the kids and have fun with them. She asked me a bit about how things were and I agreed they were not great and that I do not want that relationship again. So I think I planted maybe a couple seeds of doubt. Still have yet to tell her I'm not moving out. But I want to try to get my game plan together a little bit better before I do. No use rushing into saying something. That is something that I always did. I now have a 2 day rule. Do react to anything she says for 2 days so I can think things through


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zed #2496986 10/14/14 03:41 PM
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Thanks everybody for your insite. I greatly appreciate it and it helps to keep me thinking


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zed #2498887 10/21/14 12:33 AM
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Hi Everyone. Bad Day. Wife was talking about how she is sick of the limbo situation we are in. She told me that she does not love me and we will never be intimate again. She is mad at me b/c she said I did not try in the marriage especially when she felt she was trying to save it. I aksed her if she wanted to talk about it she said she does not want to talk about the past as it does not good. I tried to keep her talking and said you don't know it may feel better. She said if I wanted to talk about the past then I could do it with someone else.


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zed #2498891 10/21/14 12:48 AM
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I have been very hesitant of telling her that I did not want to move out. But I finally told her after the last conversation. She got very angry and asked why. I told her I was not leaving the kids. She got angrier, hit me. Sheasked me what the lawyer said and I told her that her said it was not in my best interests and that I talked to 2 C and after talking with them I felt that I was doing what I wanted. She yelled at me and called me a looser. She threated to call the cops. I said if you feel the need to. She said that she was going to call her lawyer and try to get me out of the house. I said if want this done so much you can leave. She said she would take the kids. I said no you would not. The kids time would be 50/50. She said that I was making this difficult. I asked her why...b/c I was not doing what you wanted. She said that the lawyer will get what she wants. I said if you want to spend a lot of money with the lawyer you can go ahead. Or we can talk and discuss nicely. She kept telling me to leave. I said I'm not leaving but I will go down stairs. So I went down stairs and played with the kids. Though-out this I tried to stay calm. There were times that I wanted to really fight back but, I think I did alright to supress the urge. I hate this right now. I love my W dearly, I want to just lay over and take it all. But everybody says that you will regret it. This is tough. Help and insite please!!!!!!


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zed #2498947 10/21/14 03:06 AM
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I'm sorry, Zed. She sounds depressed. It will pass. Hang in there.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
Jefe #2498955 10/21/14 03:27 AM
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So much for being calm...W got home from her mom's with the kids. We put the kids to sleep. I wanted to tell her that I was not going to be called a loser. I told her that I wanted to talk. She said she did not want to talk. I tried to talk over her and tell her what I wanted to say. Things got a little heated. I feel like this is it. It's over. There is nothing else I can do. All this and I just want her to see that maybe all the trouble with our marriage was probably some minor communication issues. She always said she said it was both of our fault the marriage failed. Now she says that this is not her decision to leave. It is a concequence of our poor marriage. I don't understand that at all? If she would just talk civil.


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zed #2498965 10/21/14 03:53 AM
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Sometimes you get so involved in your own live that you don't realize that other people have the same or worse problem. That is why this site is great. You can read other peoples situations and realize that you are not alone, and there are a lot of people in the same situation. It somehow makes you feel better that we all have troubles and if someone else can get through it. Maybe I can as well?


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zed #2498977 10/21/14 04:30 AM
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zed - This is a difficult situation, but there seems to be hope. You will just have to be patient.

As Jefe said, maybe she is depressed and going through a difficult phase. She doesn't seem to be thinking very clearly and gets upset when she loses control of the process. So far, except for tonight when you spoke over her, you've been handling things fairly well, I would say (I'm not a vet...). One of the principles of DB is "speak with your actions". Just by staying in the house, you refuse to be called a loser. No need to tell her that. Resist the urge to ask for validation from her by verbalizing.

It will get worse before it gets better. Expect that she will move out, remain very angry with you, try to build a new life and find some happiness in it before even reconsidering her decision. Don't be fooled by the glimmers of hope she'll give you along the way, like a nice attention here and there, a lunch or something like that. She'll remain steadfast. You have to be patient: the only way back to you is through her heart. She will have to miss you and love you again. This will take time. Think of those patients arriving at the ER where the doctors say "We have to wait for the swelling to go before we can operate". Your wife's emotions are swollen. You can't operate now. Just give her the space.

Knowing that it will take a few months, take this time to GAL and think. Your wife seems to have some issues, if she's hitting you and calling you a loser (these were big no-no in my R). Farther down the road, you might reconsider whether that's the kind of want you want in your life forever. I know you're not ready for this question now (neither am I) but set it aside for later consideration. Let's say you were not separated, but would get every second week off, what would you do with your time? It might help you to tink about it more clearly by framing it this way.

I really like this from Jefe:

Originally Posted By: jefe
You have to let her get to a place where she can look up and go: "Crap, how did I get here?" so she can see her own actions that led up to it. That'll never happen as long as you keep jumping in the middle and give her more reasons to blame you.

Exactly: let her do what she wants (after leaving the house, it seems!). Do not take responsibility for any of her actions. Do not advise her or help her out. She's looking for ways to blame you. She's also looking for freedom. Get out of the way, it will do you no good to insert yourself. She'll find her own apartment, she'll find a way to get the kids, etc. She has to live with the consequences of her decision.

I feel like I'm speaking way too much for a newbie. And you have sandi2 on your board, lucky you. 11 000 posts of experience. Enjoy!


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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Mozza #2498979 10/21/14 04:37 AM
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Thx mozza. You have lots of wisdom for a newbie. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.


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zed #2499160 10/21/14 05:46 PM
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So today I'm feeling bad. I'm pretty sure that I didn't do too much wrong other then raising my voice and trying to talk over her. Should have stayed calm. But now I feel the need to try to smooth things over. I'm thinking of sending a email like this" Sorry you feel that I'm making this difficult. I wish I felt the same way as you. That would make this so much easier. But I'm here if you want to talk." What does anyone think. Send it or just wait for her to make the first move. And if she does make the first move should I tell her that I won't talk until she apologizes for yelling, hitting and calling me loser. We will only talk if you can discuss in a civilized manner? Any help would be appreciated
Thanks


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zed #2499207 10/21/14 07:18 PM
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The advice I've received and seen passed around on the boards would be not to initiate contact or try and fix your mistake. I believe it's also covered in the DR book but can't recall 100%.

When she does initiate contact I don't think you should force her to apologize first. If you want it might be a good time to establish some boundaries that hitting and name calling are unacceptable.

You've gotta stop trying to talk over her, remember she does not give a s*** about what you have to say or how you feel, you are there only to listen and validate.


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Forget about asking for an apology. You need to reframe your perception of the power relationship between the two of you. She has you pinned to the ground with the cold tip of a gun to your head. You don't get to ask for an apology. You don't get to ask for anything. Not even to offer something like help or talk. She's in complete control and that's exactly how she wants it. All you can do is validate her. You have to accept her point of view on everything, or at least show her that you do. You don't want that gun to go off because she gets angry.


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Mozza #2499537 10/22/14 02:57 PM
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Thx everybody. What are your thoughts then for ongoing conversations. We still live together for now. Yesturday she tried to make small talk like nothing happened. I did not initiate any talk. Should I try to avoid conversation unless she initiates it? Or up to the last fight I would always say good night and hi when I got home from work. Should I continue with that to show that I'm the bigger person.


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Hi everyone. I'm PANICED. Just got this email. "
I think it's time to go to the mediator to sort things out (again) and move on with our lives. Something needs to be done, this has drug on way too long and the more it drags on the worse it is going to get. I've tried to have patience and let things sort out at your pace to avoid any hard feelings but it's time to bite the bullet. Things are only going to get nastier which is what I knew would happen. I think we need to set a boundary and there is zero talk about money or the kids unless there is a mediator/lawyer present. I was ready to move forward with a legal approach and my lawyer said it's in the kids best interest to try working it out with cool heads amongst ourselves. When can I make an appointment for? I think the sooner we get financials and everything worked out the better."
Please help!!!!!


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zed #2499668 10/22/14 08:53 PM
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i think im missing some of the background context here but from what i can see your best bet is to validate the premise - if your try and block progress on things like this it will just come accross as manipulative and controlling.

I'm not saying rush and sign all the paperwork but you have to meaningfully engage in the process that she initiates otherwise you saying you dont respect her viewpoint.


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So a reply something maybe like this?
I’m sorry you feel that I am dragging this out. This is a big part of our lives and our kids lives and there are so many thoughts and emotions involved. I want to be sure that I am doing what is best for me and what I believe is best for the kids. It hurts me to think that we can only talk with a lawyer or mediator is present. I not sure how things got so far gone. But If that is what you want to do that is your choice and I will respect that. So we can talk at the mediator or whoever you want. However I am not rushing into anything without the properly thinking things through and talking to the right people.


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zed #2499672 10/22/14 08:58 PM
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Not the expert but seems clear. Talk to your attorney. Set an appointment.

Agree 100% you don't get to explain yourself, that you have a different opinion on how you got there or what is possible. But don't roll your eyes and act like you think she's crazy. Finally, don't agree wih everything.

the correct attitude says 'I get how you feel and respect your right to your feelings and decisions'. Then let to and move on. Get excited about your new life and decide what that will look like.

You can speed up her road, you can only slow it down. The sooner you can move forward on your own the sooner shell have the space she needs to realize you're not to blame for all of her problems. No promises she'll come to that conclusion, but I can promise she won't if you don't give her the opportunity.

I'd recommend a DB coach immediately as well. Requirement. Mine told me the first step is to let the dust settle. No emotional reactions, no escalations. Just create some healthy distance and boundaries and start moving forward while dealing wih and processing your emotions. Be mysterious. Follow the 37 rules at ALL times.

Make changes for you. Post often. Day by day. Make decisions hat jive wih your core values. THis isn't about getting her back. This is about becoming a better, healthier man that will be ok regardless of the future.


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That's just awful. I really feel for you. I merely get an invitation to lunch to discuss "kids etc." and I freak out, so honestly, I've no idea what I would do in your situation.

Again, I'm a newbie and uncomfortable sharing my inexperienced opinion, but here goes.

As I said recently, it will get worse before it gets better. This is the part where it's getting worse and it's not over. If you're going through hell, keep going. It's the only path that might lead to a reconciliation.

By all means, keep a hold of your feelings! Remember that you need to work really hard to the the right thing. Enjoy the efforts as it means you're on the right track. It's almost never what comes naturally. So you need to hold you tongue, never fight, never argue. It makes you the problem.

I get the sense that you have her anger on your side. I'm much more afraid of a cold, calculating and calm WAS than a hot-headed one. She can be more easily surprise, I think.

It seems like you won't have a choice but to go with the flow. It would be an interesting 180, since she thinks you're dragging your feet. Remember to always validate her: "You're right, I've been dragging my feet and you must be out of patience by now. It's a good idea to get the lawyers involved to help us calmly deal with this. As you say, let's bite the bullet. I'm available X and X." I bet she'll be puzzled.

Remember this: there's nothing you can tell her now to make her change her mind. It will take the pressure off of you. I know how it feels: "I bet if I just said the right words, this would all be over". If there's a magic bullet, and I don't know that there is, it will be in your actions, not your words. And it will take patience.

If you've even broken up from a serious relationship, tap into that experience. Remember how you felt and empathize with your wife.

Hopefully you'll get better advice from more experienced posters, but I see your distress and wanted to help. Take care.


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Mozza #2499675 10/22/14 09:03 PM
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Just to say there is a difference between validating and agreeing. and sometimes it might not be great to tell them how they feel.

for example you could say
'I know you feel like i'm dragging my feet so we should get lawyers involved'

or you could say

'I understand your concerned by the progress we have made in resolving these issues and so if you feel it is right that we should get lawyers involved then i'm willing to support that'

there is probably better wording but i hope that makes sense


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Mozza I like the idea of the 180. It is just so scary though. It is the total opposite that I want right now. If it doesn't work then am I rushing into something that I don't want. I can't think clearly right now. I did a lot of stupid things b/c I rushed into it. I even made myself a 24 hour rule. That I would not do anything for 24 hours after something happened, so that I could think things through. But I kind of think I can't wait my 24 hours on this one.


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zed #2499690 10/22/14 09:47 PM
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This is just probably just the hurt me saying this but what about. A nice short. "K lets do this then. I available x." Then start to detach and GAL


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We hope for the best. Keep us posted. We're supporting you, whatever choice you make.


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Mozza #2499944 10/23/14 04:21 PM
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zed

You need some advice from a vet or a DB coach. I know the money can be hard to find, but a coach is cheaper than a D.

My coach relayed what she call the DB mantra, but I cannot remember verbatim so maybe a vet can correct me where I am wrong. She said the mantra is:

"I do not agree that a long term separation and or divorce are the solution to our relationship issues. I understand you feel this way. I will not stand in your way, but I will not help you."

The words she used were much better so hopefully someone can correct me. But the essence of the statement is to state you beliefs and respect their's.

Wish I had more to offer.


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zed #2500050 10/23/14 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: zed
So a reply something maybe like this?
I'm sorry you feel that I am dragging this out. This is a big part of our lives and our kids lives and there are so many thoughts and emotions involved. I want to be sure that I am doing what is best for me and what I believe is best for the kids. It hurts me to think that we can only talk with a lawyer or mediator is present. I not sure how things got so far gone. But If that is what you want to do that is your choice and I will respect that. So we can talk at the mediator or whoever you want. However I am not rushing into anything without the properly thinking things through and talking to the right people.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2500053 10/23/14 09:45 PM
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1. Don't move out
2. Take a big dose of STFU
3. Ignore the spew
4. GAL
5. Be cordial. Calm, cool, and collected
6. See a lawyer


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2500253 10/24/14 02:02 PM
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Hey Everybody. Thanks for the advice. I am talking to a DB coach. She has gave me some helpful advice. But I still seem so lost. She is so certain this has to happen. That she will never love me again. I think she is even being colder b/c she says she does not want to do anything to give me hope. I feel I'm trying to hang on. And I really don't want this for the kids. It breaks my heart thinking of them. I'm talking with people exercising etc. But I still feel myself getting into a dark place. I even noticed last night she was not wearing her wedding ring. I feel one of the worst things is that I really don't understand how she can feel this way. I want her to try to explain how she feels it went wrong. But she doesn't want to even talk to me about it. I am dreading lawyers etc b/c I feel she is so set in her ways and she belives I should move out, I should only get to see kids weekends etc (I want 50/50). She believes she does not have to go back to work and that I will support her. I don't want hurt her but do I have to do what is right for me?


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gogofo #2500257 10/24/14 02:12 PM
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"I do not agree that a long term separation and or divorce are the solution to our relationship issues. I understand you feel this way. I will not stand in your way, but I will not help you."
[/quote]
Gogofo. I really like this. But I know she will say. I don't love you. And I don't want to be in a loveless marriage. So for me this is not a choice. This is just a consequence of our poor marriage. What on reflection I believe we just didn't listen and really understand what each other wanted. I truly believe we wanted the same things we just did not know how to get there of show it.


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zed #2500263 10/24/14 02:18 PM
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Quote:
I want her to try to explain how she feels it went wrong. But she doesn't want to even talk to me about it. I am dreading lawyers etc b/c I feel she is so set in her ways and she belives I should move out, I should only get to see kids weekends etc (I want 50/50).


Real quick, Zed.

Do not get her to explain anything right now. Even if she did, it wouldn't necessarily be the truth and her head is a mess right now.

I know you feel she is set in her ways, but try not to put labels on anything. Do not believe ANYTHING she says and only %50 of what you see.

DO NOT MOVE OUT! Stand firm on this one.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
Drew #2500265 10/24/14 02:21 PM
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1. Don't move out-I think I'm good on this one. I'm really stubborn so once I decide on something I can stick to it.
2. Take a big dose of STFU- I have to learn to this better
3. Ignore the spew- It's tough b/c its hurts so bad when it's someone you love.
4. GAL- Trying my best on this one. But at times it feels like keeping myself busy is actually wearing me down
5. Be cordial. Calm, cool, and collected- Trying my best on this one as well. Hard not to take the insults to heart and then put on a happy face
6. See a lawyer- Have done this. His advice: don't move out, stay calm don't raise your voice, take your kids out have fun with them. If your work takes you away from home more than regular working hours, reduce your hours or quit. I talked to my boss and he is pretty understanding


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zed #2500277 10/24/14 02:41 PM
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Zed: I want to reinforce the idea that you shouldn't ask her to explain how she feels it went wrong. It will only reinforce her. You feed what you emphasize. Don't make her articulate what she dislikes about you and your R, it will strengthen it and occupy more of her mind space. I've once read that the best way to reinforce a person's opinion is to attack it.


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zed #2500278 10/24/14 02:42 PM
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Quote:
I am talking to a DB coach.

Good.

Quote:
But I still seem so lost.

Get used to it. DB is not for the faint of heart. It's a marthon not a sprint.

Quote:
She is so certain this has to happen. That she will never love me again.

That's how she feels right now. Doesn't mean she'll always feel that way. She loved you once right?

Quote:
I think she is even being colder b/c she says she does not want to do anything to give me hope.

Mindreading. Don't do that.

Quote:
I want her to try to explain how she feels it went wrong. But she doesn't want to even talk to me about it.

No, she doesn't. And you can't talk your way out of something your actions got you into.

Quote:
I am dreading lawyers etc b/c I feel she is so set in her ways and she belives I should move out, I should only get to see kids weekends etc (I want 50/50).

This alone should make you want to consult with a lawyer to protect your rights as a parent.

Quote:
She believes she does not have to go back to work and that I will support her.

As a wise counselor once told me, maybe it's time for a little dose of reality.

Read or reread DB/DR.

GAL.

Stop with the R talks.

DB101.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2500289 10/24/14 03:05 PM
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zed: Some excellent advice you got there from Drew.

Originally Posted By: Drew
you can't talk your way out of something your actions got you into.
I cried. It's something I only realized when my wife walked out after a week of pleading and begging -- actually, I may have realized it only when I read it here. I think we go back to words because we can cram so many of them in an encounter while our actions are more like drops in a bucket. But these drops are real and words are not. If we're honest to ourselves, it's much easier to say that we've changed than to show it. I know I had almost all the right words from day 1, but the true realizations and actions come slowly. Everyday I realize something important about my R that would make me a better man.


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Drew #2500291 10/24/14 03:07 PM
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Quote:
I think she is even being colder b/c she says she does not want to do anything to give me hope.

Mindreading. Don't do that.
Drew. She has told me that she does not want to do anything to give me hope. I just added in the I think she is being colder. Thanks for you in site. BTW how do you do the quote things. I am trying and can't figure it out
Thanks


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zed #2500377 10/24/14 06:35 PM
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Just talked to Therapist. She helped me realize that W is already gone. Nothing I can do can make her stay. I have to let her go and maybe 1 day she will come back. Now for the lawyers and/or mediation. I can't say I'm really looking forward to that.


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So this is starting to move quickly just got an unexpected email W is making a appointment with mediator. Would like a couple thoughts on a couple things. W now says she will move out and take the kids. Where we live I have rights to 50/50 time. Also I get that she is under the impression that she wont have to work. Which again where we live she is expected to help with child support and she did take Civil engineering so she should be able to get a good job. (Thanks to me for paying off her student loan) Should I tell her what I expect prior to mediation. I have 2 reasons why I don't want to. I expect her to flip out again and would rather have someone there. And the other one is I think it would be a nice suprise for her and might shock her (maybe a little vengeful).
The only reason I can think of to tell her is that I do care for her and hope she might be able to cope better if I told her ahead of time.


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All I can say is that your expectations appear reasonable, especially if backed up by the laws in your state. If you keep your emotions in check, you look like you have a good chance. As to what should be your moral compass, think of you and the kids and not what impact it will have on her.


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Mozza #2500405 10/24/14 08:00 PM
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Remind me - did either of you file for divorce?


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2500409 10/24/14 08:23 PM
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No nothing yet. Currently living together. W was pushing me to move out last 4 months. I have been DB and trying to make it work. Wife has been checking out


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zed #2500411 10/24/14 08:24 PM
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Sorry that was not very clear Drew. No one has filed for divorce yet


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zed #2500414 10/24/14 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: zed
No one has filed for divorce yet

So why are you going to mediation?


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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She want to start separation and someone to move out. Wants to divide assets. A plan for who get the children when etc


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zed #2500672 10/25/14 09:38 PM
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What do YOU want?

And you can't say "I want my wife back, I want my family back..."

We already know that.

What's good for zed right now?

And you don't need to do anything you don't want to right now. She wants to leave, she should leave. But she shouldn't get to take the children out of the family home. You need to be prepared with a custody order if she tries.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
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"And you don't need to do anything you don't want to right now. She wants to leave, she should leave. But she shouldn't get to take the children out of the family home. You need to be prepared with a custody order if she tries."

I'm a strong believer in this one right here. She wants to leave, fine let her leave. But she leaves with her clothes, her car, and little else. Wives that want to break apart a family should not be rewarded by getting to keep the fruits of the family.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Unless you feel in danger or you can't afford to, stay where you are. You also shouldn't file for D first if you don't want the D.

Let her know she's welcome to take any and all steps she feels are necessary, but if this is what SHE wants, then SHE has to make the moves.


ME: 38
BF: 40
T: 10y, no kids, no M (by choice)
BD: 7/14/14, BF admits to PA, wants out, lies about new R.
10/1/14: I move out, BF lies about move in with OW
12/4/14: OW confronted, reveals all the lies
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W and I have been having a couple good coversations lately. She if fighting life and death for the kids. W does not think it is fair for 50/50 with kids since I was working the last couple years to provide for family and wasn't around much to help with kids. W feels that will not be good for the kids to drastically cut her time with them. She says she doesn't have a choice with the separation. Either she lives in a loveless marriage(she says she will never lover me again). Or end the marriage. She says she can't fight for the marriage b/c she doesn't love me. Is it just me or does W sound a bit delusional. All this mumbo-jumbo is making less and less sense as it goes on.


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zed #2500832 10/26/14 05:04 PM
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The last couple have talks have been about the relationship. I know everyone says that is a no-no. But I think I am finding out a lot. In not so many words the wife is blaming the failed marriage on me. As she said she was trying. I asked if maybe you were just trying the wrong way. She would have none of it. But I'm starting to realize that she does not feel bad for anything she did as well. We would have sex maybe 2 times a year. Something that really bothered me and was discussed to great length. So much so that I quit trying to initate sex b/c I could not stand to be rejected anymore. She even brought up a couple trips that we went on together without the kids that were really sore spots for me. We went without the kids. I was hoping to have fun with her and connect. She basically ignored me the whole time. She said she did not feel like she wanted to be close. Isn't that her choice not to be loving when she knows what it means to me? Do I really want to be in a relationship with someone that doesn't want to take care of my needs? I now realize that I did not take care of her's. But I'm willing and trying to change that.


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Jefe #2500834 10/26/14 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jefe
"And you don't need to do anything you don't want to right now. She wants to leave, she should leave. But she shouldn't get to take the children out of the family home. You need to be prepared with a custody order if she tries."

I'm a strong believer in this one right here. She wants to leave, fine let her leave. But she leaves with her clothes, her car, and little else. Wives that want to break apart a family should not be rewarded by getting to keep the fruits of the family.


It would be nice for a WAW to give me an opinion on this.


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zed #2500838 10/26/14 05:18 PM
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I guess to clarify a bit. W says that she has no choice to separate b/c she does not love me and never will. And she does not love me b/c of choice's I made during the marriage. There for the separation is not her choice. It is a consequence of my actions due to my choice's during the marriage. Any time I bring up it is her choice to separate. It is a big fight.


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zed #2500853 10/26/14 07:17 PM
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Stop bringing up her choice to separate. You are both at fault. The failure of the M was not all you, the S (while her decision) IS partially a consequence of your actions/inactions and therefore is not all on her. Yes, she is in her fog, speaking in absolute negatives, etc. But there is some element of truth to what she says, especially regarding her complaints about you. And here's the thing: She BELIEVES what she is saying right now. Whether she is actually correct or has just convinced herself of things to help her feel better, she believes it. You are he last person on earth she is willing to reason with right now. So just stop reasoning with her about your M or the S.

Look at it a different way...what is your goal when you tell her the S is her decision? If it is alleviate your guilt and place it on her, then keep going because you are meeting your goal. If it has anything to do with trying to help your M, then it should be obvious at this point that its not working. She's not going to suddenly say, "You're right, this is my decision. And it's a bad one. Let's get back together and live happily ever after." So DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT and stop saying things like that. i would avoid all R talks until you have learned some better strategies for how to act during them.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Card29 #2500856 10/26/14 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: zed
Isn't that her choice not to be loving when she knows what it means to me? Do I really want to be in a relationship with someone that doesn't want to take care of my needs? I now realize that I did not take care of her's.
Her "love bucket" was already empty by then. She did not just simply choose to stop loving you. I'm not saying she's without blame. It was almost certainly a mutual failure to fulfill each other. It's good that you are noticing this and are willing to change. But you can't expect for her to suddenly allow you to try to fulfill her. It will be her decision to come back to that. I am going through the exact same thing, and I know how much it hurts to have this new knowledge and motivation, but no or limited opportunity to use them. Here's what you CAN do:

- Focus on yourself. What were/are her complaints about you? Yes she is in her fog, but there is probably at least some truth to everything she says. So listen intently. List every complaint you can think of. Can you identify her Love Languages and/or primary emotional needs?

- Make changes based on that list, but do it for YOU, not to win her back

- Do not overwhelm her with these changes, and definitely do not mention them to her directly (unless she specifically asks). But use every interaction with her as a chance to practice/demonstrate the changes and fulfill her emotional needs in any way you can. But you should be practicing these changes all day, everyday, with everyone in your life. Since I have limited interaction with WAW, I have noticed that the same failures I had with her show up in my other R's, just on a much more casual level. So I've been practicing them there.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
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M 3 years
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Card29 #2500863 10/26/14 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Card29
Look at it a different way...what is your goal when you tell her the S is her decision? If it is alleviate your guilt and place it on her, then keep going because you are meeting your goal.

Little confused by this. When W was telling me to leave other people were telling me to make sure you let her know the S was her choice therefore I was not leaving. I guess my goal would be that she does not think it is mutual. Expecially for the kids. It is her choice to leave so how can she take the kids. I know that I could have done things differently during our marriage and I have taken responsibility for that. But I want stay and fix it. I choose to fight for our marriage for kids. She does not. If that makes sense.


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zed #2500866 10/26/14 08:08 PM
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The main point behind that advice was to NOT be the one that leaves. That WOULD have put some of the blame for the S on you. It's important that she knew it was not a mutual S, but to continually tell her that is only doing something negative. She already knows how you feel about the S. Your goal shouldn't be to convince her it's her decision. Everytime you do that, she will be less likely to want to talk to you and will associate you with whatever negative feelings she feels when you put that on her.

I've had to learn the same lessons recently, so don't feel bad. But learn from them and don't keep making the same mistakes


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Card29 #2500868 10/26/14 08:10 PM
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Thanks Card. Makes so much sense. Hard to think with all the emotions.


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Card29 #2500869 10/26/14 08:13 PM
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I admit I'm not a vet. Take my advice with a grain of salt and trust the vets over me. But I don't see any good thing in you continuing to have convos with her that end in fights every time. Until you learn how to deal with those talks, avoid them. Don't initiate them, and if she does, if you feel it going down a similar path, ask her if you can talk about it another time when you are ready. Someone else might have a more clever line to use.


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
Card29 #2501494 10/28/14 04:15 PM
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Been in a really dark place last couple days. Having troubles feeling good about this situation at all. Talk to coach, therapist, keep working out and trying to GAL. But still feel like im going downhill. Not looking forward to mediation. Not looking forward to W or me moving out, less time with kids. Not looking forward to Christmas being by myself. This [censored]


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zed #2501500 10/28/14 04:26 PM
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In reference to GAL, do or do not there is no try. That said, yeah this all six. Try to pick one thing fun to do for yourself every day and do it. Make a checklist if you need to. If nothing else you'll have a sense of accomplishment as you go through the list which will give you more confidence. Don't give up!!!


M40 XW35
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Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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What hobbies did you have before you were married that you've set aside?


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2501561 10/28/14 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Drew
What hobbies did you have before you were married that you've set aside?

Drinking and Partying. But I don't think that is a good idea right now.


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zed #2502106 10/30/14 01:29 AM
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So my W keeps sending me links to these hand picked articles about how people are happier after splitting and their children are alright. She asks me what I think and if it helps. I haven't said anything back. All these articles are when both people want the separation. I DO NOT this separation. I believe it is bad for the kids. I have told her this many of times. I do not want to tell her again as I know she will get upset and it will not get anywhere. I guess I will just keep avoiding the situation for now


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zed #2502153 10/30/14 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: zed
So my W keeps sending me links to these hand picked articles about how people are happier after splitting and their children are alright.
I understand how you feel. On a related note, this is the very reason why one of the 37 rules is not to share articles about M with our WAS. On the other side, it is not well received because it doesn't confirm a choice that's already made and felt. Your W's behavior is a great teaching moment for us, LBS.

I don't really know what you can say back. Perhaps a simple thank you, perhaps adding that you appreciate how she shares information to help you understand her perspective.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
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D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
zed #2502201 10/30/14 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: zed
So my W keeps sending me links to these hand picked articles about how people are happier after splitting and their children are alright. She asks me what I think and if it helps. I haven't said anything back. All these articles are when both people want the separation. I DO NOT this separation. I believe it is bad for the kids. I have told her this many of times. I do not want to tell her again as I know she will get upset and it will not get anywhere. I guess I will just keep avoiding the situation for now

More eggshells.....

Why don't you just be honest with her? In a nice way, of course.

"Thanks, but I really don't need you to send me these."

Then hit delete.


Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Drew #2502361 10/30/14 09:46 PM
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I feel like I might have PMS. One minute I'm feeling good then in 2 seconds flat I'm back down. I am having a hard time coping right now. W says she does not love me b/c she felt neglected and didn't feel loved. Why can't she just see that I always loved her and just didn't know how to show it....


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zed #2502390 10/30/14 11:36 PM
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Zed,
U are not alone. I showed my wife through gifts, her love language are words of affirmation. If I'd known then then what I know now...
But we are where we are, unfortunately. You can still show her love by listening to her. And actions speak louder than words. Or some other platitude that's meant to help us all right now. Seriously though, just do your best, that's all u can do. Prayers.


M40 XW35
M11 T15
S9 D5
Bomb 6/3/14
Papers del 10/3/14
D final 12/5/14

I wish I could love you and make you believe it
'Cause that's all you ever wanted
From me

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Again with this PMS [censored]. Now I angry. I know I was not the best husband. But thinking back I believe I maybe did the best that I knew how. Is there things on reflection that I would change. Absolutly. But I never knew how to deal some things. W would cry and be sad about once a month(history of depression). I always wanted to be alone with my thoughts when things were tough so I thought she did. Next day she would seem better. I thought leaving her alone worked, but obviously did not. I never did cheat on her, even though I got sex 1-2 times a year. Work lots but I rushed home as fast as I could to help her out. Helped around the house, folded laundry, cleaned out dishwasher, cleaned up. Did not gamble all our money away, was not a druggy or an alcoholic. I thought I was a good dad (she thinks I was too). Made good money and bought her what she wanted/needed. All this and it still was not good enough for her. Shes giving up and she is going to hurt our kids. I am so angry at her right now.


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zed #2502528 10/31/14 10:57 AM
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All those things are superficial. It's not what your W really wanted which was to feed her emotional needs. You can't be angry at her for things you didn't give. It doesn't matter that you didn't know. She gave you all the signs and you chose to ignore them.


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
MrBond #2502566 10/31/14 02:20 PM
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Hey zed - I understand and share your feelings: I wasn't such a bad husband, so why leave me without warning? But I have to agree with MrBond here: all these things do not matter if she didn't feel loved. She is a jury of 1 and she didn't think that you were doing the right thing. The fact that you had sex 1-2 a year was a red flag that she didn't connect with you. Your best bet is to do the right thing now. And it will take time.

This being said, getting angry every now and then can be a good thing. I know it helps me to get through some days. You also need to process that emotion, whatever that means.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza #2502716 10/31/14 07:28 PM
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Yah hindsite is 20/20. I realize all that now. Not too sure how I missed it. Stuck in my own world I guess. If I only new what I know now...1 year ago. This may not have happened. Now it seems like it is too late. Wife doesn't want any part of me anymore and the kids are going to suffer and my heart is breaking b/c I never did stop loving her...Not too sure where to go from her. Anybody have any ideas for LRT when still living in the same house...For now anyway. Maybe only a month more.


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zed #2502891 11/01/14 02:38 PM
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This is getting harder by the day. W was sad and said she has not friends as she thinks they are on my side. Small town 1000 people. People have noticed that I am skinner and seem sad. One of her friends mentioned that I did not look good and said she felt sorry for me. She did not tell her friend but told me. Why is she sorry for you I am the one you hurt.

So going back to last night. She was sad and said she doesn't like going out b/c she feels people are talking about her. I asked if she wanted to talk about it and she said she did not. 2 older kids were in bed so I suggested W take D2 to play. B/c that always made me feel better. After D2 went to bed I could still tell she was hurting. I sure she feels lonely, sad, confused. I now how that feels and I don't wish that on anyone. All I want to do is comfort her but she does not want me to do it. So it brings me down more to think that someone I love is hurting and there is nothing I can do about it


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zed #2502901 11/01/14 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: zed
People have noticed that I am skinner and seem sad. One of her friends mentioned that I did not look good and said she felt sorry for me.
RED ALERT! This is contrary to the DB principles. No woman is attracted to a sad man, especially one that other women find sad. Pick yourself up, even if only in public. Look upbeat and happy, then cry your heart out in private. Be upbeat in your wife's presence and don't crowd her. She wants control over her life and show her that you give it all back to her. It'll be hard? That's the point: it's your opportunity to make efforts to make this work.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza #2502913 11/01/14 03:57 PM
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Thx Mozza. Hard to realize until someone calls you out. I always gave my W this advice when she was feeling down. Who cares what anyone else thinks. Maybe I should start looking into my own advice. I guess all you can do is live life for you and not worry about the W. She will be happy,or sad it may be b/c of you but she has to want to talk about her feelings with me


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zed #2502953 11/01/14 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Jefe
"And you don't need to do anything you don't want to right now. She wants to leave, she should leave. But she shouldn't get to take the children out of the family home. You need to be prepared with a custody order if she tries."

I'm a strong believer in this one right here. She wants to leave, fine let her leave. But she leaves with her clothes, her car, and little else. Wives that want to break apart a family should not be rewarded by getting to keep the fruits of the family.


It would be nice for a WAW to give me an opinion on this.


I agree.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Quote:
So it brings me down more to think that someone I love is hurting and there is nothing I can do about it


Perhaps if you understood that this is a natural or necessary process in a WAW finding her way out of her crises. Sure it is hard to see her sad, but it is not your job to fix things for her or try and make her happy. Don't rescue her from these experiences she's having.

The wayward wife must see their fantasy collapse. They must be hit with hard reality. When things start happening that makes her feel uncomfortable or sad, don't try to shield her. I realize this is a new position to take, but it is for her own good. She has to deal with the anger, depression, dissappointments, and reality. She has to see how life without you will be for her. She has to discover that things will not be what she dreamed. She has to suffer some kind of loss.

All that is necessary in order for her to get back to her former self. Every time you interfere with that process, you slow things down.....or maybe even deter it.

It's like giving birth. The labor is long and painful, but necessary to produce such a favorable outcome.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Hi everyone. Little bit of a crisis here. I am currently texting back and forth with the wife and I admit im over my head.
Here is the conversation. Wife intitated it
W: I think I realized why my resentment for you keeps building and I get more angry every day..you are trying to force me to stay with you. The more forced I feel the more I want out. Which is why I'm on the verge of exploding all the time
M: If you feel comfortable. Would you like to tell me why you feel I'm forcing you to stay
W: B/c you wont leave for starters after I told you theres nothing left and we are done
M: I don't know how to respond to that. But this is both our house. And I don't want to be the one holding you back. All I ever truly wanted was for you to be happy. I don't want to force you into anything you don't want to do
W: Guess it hard for everyone all around. Rips me up leaving the girls and going places. Im torn between staying and letting them feel all the tension or losing time with them to let them feel ease in the house
M: I see you doing that. That is why I try to suggest doing something or telling the kids to "go play with mom" I hate that you feel you have to leave and hate that there is tension. I don't know what the answer is. But I know it is hard for you to talk with me. So I appreciated you time and honesty
W: I just feel like I am losing my connection with the and it just rips my heart out. I can tell it affects the too but I don't know what to do. I physically and emothioally feel like I cant be in the same house and feel like myself
M: I love our kids very much. I believe they need both parents. I do not want to get in the way of any connection you have with them. In fact I want to encourage them to have a connection with you.
How did I do. Any suggestions for next time?


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sandi2 #2502966 11/01/14 07:44 PM
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Thanks Sandy. I so assuring to hear this from such a vet. Thanks for taking you time to help.


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sandi2 #2502969 11/01/14 07:57 PM
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[
Quote:


All that is necessary in order for her to get back to her former self. Every time you interfere with that process, you slow things down.....or maybe even deter it.

It's like giving birth. The labor is long and painful, but necessary to produce such a favorable outcome.



Any suggestions when W if sad then. Just sit and wait to see if she wants to talk. As that is what I did during are whole marriage and this is one of the reasons we are where we are. Or should I just say something to the extent. "I see something is bothering you. If you want to talk I'm here to listen"?


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zed #2502979 11/01/14 09:08 PM
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First of all, I believe the LBH needs to give a lot of support during the piecing stage. Just want to make that clear.

But during the stage you find yourself, it is a narrow path. I believe it is important to give her space and not be as available to offer a lot of soothing for her emotional frame of mind. Remember, she is leaving you and all you can give (support, comfort, etc.). That may sound cold or punitive, but it is not to punish her. It is not you teaching her a lesson. It is you allowing her to experience the reality she has caused. You are leaving her alone to sort and deal with the circumstances she has brought about due to her selfish decisions.

Now, if you are there, say watching TV together and she is crying or doing something to obviously get your attention.........or if she dramatically throws herself down on the bed and start bawling.........you can ask her if she wants to share her feelings with you. I would not suggest you initiate any form of physical comforting, but if she leans on you to cry or ask you to hold her......I would not refuse. Just beware that it means nothing but the pain of her selfishness wants comforting. You can put your arm around her and wait till she crys it out. Listen to her talk. You don't have to agree or even make comments other than "I'm sorry this is happening" or "This has not been easy". something alone those lines. But do not follow her around, trying to get her to talk about it. If she comes to you, then be strong and compassionate.

Everyone does not agree with me on this, just so you know. They encourage more validating. And if you know how and can, that's up to you. But be careful what you say b/c I feel this particular time for her is crucial. And it depends on what she's crying about. If she is tormented over the confusion in her heart/mind, then I say to be more sympathetic. If she is crying over her life being hard and she has no friends or what people think of her, whatever.......then not quite as sympathetic? Does that make any sense? This "sadness" needs to resonate with her choices.

Again, I do not mean to imply you act cold and uncaring. Don't sit there with some kind of self-righteous air. Don't act like her judge. Just continue to show strength and offer to let her talk if she wants to. But don't offer suggestions or try to fix what's hurting her. Don't pet her or smother her in your attempts to make her feel better.

Hope this not confuse you more.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2503362 11/03/14 02:33 AM
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I was doing good today. Then tonight I hit a wall again. Youngest D Bday is on the Nov.7th. W has totally shut me out from all her family. Mine live 8 hours away. She decided to have a Bday party with youngest daughter and her family while I was at work. Because she did not want me around. On top of it all it really seems like she is trying put on a big show in front of me with the girls to make me jealous. I know I can never compete with her and I don't want to as I want my kids to love us both equally. But so hard to see it and not call her out on it.

Last thing is. 2 oldest daughters are really starting to act out. Needing attention. We have not told them anything yet but I know they know something is not right. I know I was a big part or why the marriage failed but I am so mad at her that she will not give me another chance. Now the kids are suffering. My heart hurts so much for them. Any suggestions, comments.


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zed #2504086 11/04/14 06:24 PM
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So I have been trying to detach. No more relationship talk, been more business like etc for last couple days. Our mediation is in a week. Out of the blue I get text from W while I'm at work. "Just wanted to say sorry for any way that I have hurt you through this. You may not believe this but I really do feel terrible about this".
There is so many ways I wanted to respond to this. The advice on Mozza's thread have been great as well as Sandi's advice has been awesome.

I replied with a simple" Yah I know this is hard on you" What I feel is validating and also not cold, short and to the point.


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zed #2504093 11/04/14 06:38 PM
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Wrong response.

BEST: ignore it (there's no question in there, and nothing about the kids)


OR: "Yes, this has been very difficult on all of us."


There's no need to validate someone who is fleeing from their family, in my opinion.


Starsky


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At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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So much to learn. I can re-read DB and DR so many times. But you learn so much more from everyone hear.
Thanks Starsky


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zed #2504115 11/04/14 07:17 PM
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Ha! I thought it was a fairly good response. I defer to the vets, of course.

One observation though:
Originally Posted By: zed
" Yah I know this is hard on you"
I try to avoid any validation that implies "I already knew that". Even starting an answer to an affirmation with a "yes" implies that you had already thought about it. I personally feel much better understood when the other person expresses a reaction suggesting they learnt something new. The "I knew that" kind of response is a disappointment because it implies that the other person had already taken that into account. My LL is "words of affirmation" by the way and quality of attention is very big for me.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Mozza #2504301 11/05/14 05:14 AM
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Wife must be starting to feel guilty and depressed or something. Last week she has quit dressing up to the nines to go out to get grocery's, working out, and she says she hasn't been sleeping. Which she has been doing the last 2 months or so. She texted me about how she was feeling guilty this morning as per above. Then tonight before bed she asked "how are you doing" I said "good...why?". W "i feel so cold right now". Me" Why do you feel so cold?" W "I guess with all the stuff we are going to go through we cant expect to be best buddies". Me calmly "yep". Then there was approx. 1 min of silence. She was watching "The Batchelor Canada". which she know's I don't like, so I said. "I don't really feel like watching the batchelor right now" and left to go do my own thing.

I am feeling pretty detached right now. I don't really have much feelings for her. I know my feelings will come and go but it feels pretty good not to think of her 90% of the day. Now it is only 50% LOL.


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zed #2504469 11/05/14 04:48 PM
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I'll take 50%. That'd be a 45% improvement.

Sounds like your getting on the up trend of the, my life will be good journey.

Don't try to guess if she is guilty or depressed. Just keep showing your positive confident side.


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
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Yeah you handled that just right. And one of my Ws informal LLs was when i sit and watch the bachelor with her (show is awful), so i would have done the same thing!

i think its a good sign that she felt comfortable enough to tell you those things. theres probably 10x more of that going on in her head.


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1foot2 #2505846 11/09/14 10:25 PM
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I'm trying to make sense of this all and I think it helps to compare it to something. This is the best I can think of.nI think of the failure of my marriage sort of like this.

This is like a important test in school. Where you studied and thought you were going to do good. When you went to wright the test you realized that you studied the wrong lesson. You still tried your best but ultimately failed the test. Who is to blame?

You beg and plead with the teacher. Trying to explain and hoping you can get a make up exam or extra credit assignment to no avail. Then you get mad and angry at the teacher b/c she did not give you another chance and say how unfair she is.
But you soon realize that it is your fault. For maybe goofing off in class and not listening correctly. Not asking other school mates to confirm that you were studying was the right lesson. Maybe the teacher will give you another chance. Maybe not. But I'm guessing next time you will listen a lot better in class so that this will never happen again


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zed #2506574 11/12/14 03:31 AM
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So tomorrow is my mediation with wife. Splitting up assets. Seeing who and how much we each get the kids. Deciding who get the house. It will probably be the worst day of my life. Arguing over things that I wish just did not have to be done and with someone that I still very much love and don't want to hurt. I know I have to be strong for me and my kids. I almost want to cave and let her have everything. But a lot of people say that I will regret it in the future.
Things I want. 50/50 with the kids. She has said in the past that this will not happen
I want the house. It is what I thought our dream house. We built 3 years ago. But wife reminded me that I was the one to push to build a new house and she just wanted to buy another house for the time being. No she wants it for some reason.

Told wife this morning that this feels like the last day we will ever be a family. She said she has been to busy being angry and sad to think about it. But off to work out to clear mind. Anyone with suggestions for tomorrow would be great.


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zed #2506580 11/12/14 03:37 AM
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Zed,

I'm going through this as well. I know you love your wife, but I agree with the people that say you will regret it if you cave to her. Your kids need you to be guided by what is in their best interest right now. I'm not sure exactly how the system works there in Canada - but I presume the mediator is there to help you be reasonable with one another. Utilize that.

Good luck- it will be a tough day - but you will get through it.


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Try reading the 37 rules tomorrow morning. Find a quick way to detach. I know mild anger has this short-term effect on me, giving me a clearer head for a few hours. Might be enough to go through this ordeal without pleading, giving up, etc.

Remember: nothing you will say tomorrow will make her stay. Except perhaps "Fine, go. I'll be ok."

Courage. And report back.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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