It doesn't feel like a fairytale anymore...

[fthnluv]

So, I texted H about changing the date for D4's birthday this morning. He called this afternoon and we talked for about an hour and lots was said. I'm going to write much of it down, if for no other reason than journaling.

H admitted that the date is not the issue. He does not want to be at a birthday party facing our families with this decision. I begged him to reconsider as it means so much to his little Daddy's girl. I explained that I would tell my family to be on their best behavior with H and that if they are not they would be the ones to leave as it is most important, for the kids, that we do these things together, amicably and as friends one day. He agreed with that but stated that I could not control people and he didn't want to deal with their barbs and I told him that so many people (including me) say we would die for our kids and that taking a barb here or there is nowhere close to that. He stated "I do take barbs, every day, from myself, the hardest one to hear them from" to which I responded that those are his conscience or God talking to him because he knows in his heart that this is the wrong decision.

I told him to let me know for sure ASAP because I may need to talk to my family before the party if he will be here and asked him how he wanted me to explain his absence if he does not come. H stated that I could either tell them that he had to work or that I could tell them that we are D'ing. I told him that I will not lie for him and that if I am forced to tell his family of his decision I will tell them that we are separated and H has filed for divorce and that I do not want one and ask them to pray for us. If asked more about it I plan to simply say "H says he has been unhappy for a long time, I did not know that, he thinks he will be happier apart and living in PA". I told H that I have no intention of telling people about OW as I do not want to make him look bad and make it harder for him to return one day. He didn't argue or agree with my statement and is slightly reconsidering coming to her party.

We also discussed what he wants to do when he does come to see the kids as he raised the concern that he does not want to stay at our home or spend time with me. I told him that I would never keep the kids away from him but that it really seems too early to take them away from me and leave me alone. His wishes (both prior to now and still expressed for the future) were for us to function as a family when he was in town as much as possible (his words were "I don't see my time at home looking much different than it has for the last 6 months" when we were still together and going through M counseling) and him completely changing that to traditional visitation hurts a lot. I realize that I will likely have to allow that one day, and, frankly, even if he chooses it this time I will have to allow it but it hurts. I told him that the only reason to do it the other way is to save H's feelings alone, it is not in the best interest of our kids, and that if he continually puts his feelings above his kids best interests I will have to look at the way I deal with him in other areas keeping this fact in mind. If he puts himself above the kids always why would I think he would do any differently when it comes to financial or other matters?

He also told me that he does not like to see me or talk to me on the phone because it hurts him and me too much. I told him that it hurts me too, especially when I want him so badly and he does not want me and that I am jealous that he has OW to provide him love and comfort while I am all alone in mine. He says this is one of the main reasons he does not want to do the whole "act like a family as we always have" routine, that would require him spending time with me. I'm sure that that is part of the reason I DO want to do it. I guess I keep thinking that if he sees that I am the person he always wanted me to be (or even better) that he will recommit to our family. I hate to admit that but I know it's true. He asked how long we would need to act that way and I told him that we would need to take that as it comes. I guess there is a difference between still doing holidays and birthdays together and making each visitation a family affair. I guess I am asking too much of that. I'm just not ready to be left behind.

At one point I told him that he is not being the kind of man who I want to be the father figure in my kids life, right now. His character and selfishness is not the kind of role model I want for them. I later apologized for that and told him that although I disagree with the choices he is making now and the selfishness he is displaying, I truly believe that the man I loved for 23 years is still in his heart and that THAT man IS the man I want to be the father for my kids.

He told me that he was surprised that I am not letting go of him. I asked him why he would say that, as, as late as Valentine's Day of this year in his card to me he was thanking me "for being the fighter that you are" why would he think I would give up now? He stated that I had told him that if he cannot be the father to my kids that they needed I would find someone who would (I did tell him this in an argument once, but then thought it through and apologized) and also that I had given him (apparently in another argument) until the end of July to make a decision (I don't remember that) and also that we were fighting all the time. I pointed out that we only fought a lot last year (when he was being a total jerk and I had a migraine that, literally, lasted from June to November) and that this year the ONLY thing we argue about is his commitment to our marriage. He was also surprised that the revelation of OW did not push me over the edge to give up. I told him that that one surprised me too but I stated that I will not give up until God gives me some nudge to do so and that so far God is telling me to hold on. I told him that I was sorry if that bothered him but that He is greater than both of us and that if His plan is for us to go through this for some reason before reconciling He is stronger than either of us and I will continue to do what I feel He is telling me to do.

H told me he has a lot to process from this conversation and would get back to me likely tomorrow night on his final decision about coming to D4's party. I still doubt that he'll come but I am hoping, for both her sake and his.

[Matt165]

fth,
I understand that you are telling your H how you feel. I know that you are still hoping that you can somehow show your H that what he is doing is "wrong", that if you can just make him see that he is hurting his kids, you, the family, etc. than he will "see" that he is making a mistake and stop and come back. IT WON'T WORK. It doesn't matter if you are exactly right in what you say. He has a long way to go before he is even close to coming through his MLC. All you are doing when you say the things that you are is applying "pressure" on him. He will run from pressure every time.

As for him changing his mind about acting "like a family" when he comes home, going to birthday parties, etc. This is common. Now that he has told you that he wants a D and that he is leaving and that he has another W and you didn't just up and die or kill yourself or whatever, he is going to totally stop having any care about you or his old life. My W did the same thing. Once she told me what she wanted and the world didn't end or God didn't strike her down, she started no longer caring to keep up "appearances". He is relived that he is finally going to get to do what he wants and he is going to pull farther away now, not come closer.

When you talk to your H and say the things you did here, you aren't DBing, fth. In fact you are doing the opposite. I'm not putting you down for it at all. I did the same thing for a long time. But you have to stop doing this when you talk to him. This isn't the first talk you have had like this with him and if you look at it honestly, things are not only not any better, they are actually worse. You really need to stop and reread the DB basics. When you remind him how "wrong" he is, you are only driving him farther away. When you show him how he is hurting his kids, you are driving him farther away.

He is doing everything you say...he is putting himself before his kids, he is breaking his vows, he is doing all the bad things you say. But by telling him that is what he is doing you aren't helping anything. Your H is telling you this himself when he says he "..doesn't like talking to you because it hurts too much". He knows what he is doing is wrong and he doesn't like being reminded of this and will totally stop talking to you at all if it keeps going the same way.

I know how much you are hurting fth. I know you just want to say the right words and make your H see the light and turn around and come back to you and his family. There just aren't any words that can do this. Basics fth! Remember the basics.

You can and will get through this fth. I know it hurts, I know it isn't right or fair. But you need to start doing things that will help YOU get to where you need to be. The sooner you leave your H to work things out himself, the sooner YOU will start to move forward with your own life.

[fthnluv]

He has a long way to go before he is even close to coming through his MLC. All you are doing when you say the things that you are is applying "pressure" on him. He will run from pressure every time.

I know, in my head, that this is true. I guess I have a hard time reconciling what is typical for a MLCer and what God and faith can do. God *can* change this and change his heart in an instant. I find myself fighting this belief and not wanting to start speaking it to take another 3-5 years, if ever, to wait through if it could change tomorrow. You know the whole "speak it into existence" theory, I don't want to speak many more years of this if God could change it tomorrow. Of course, if that is His plan it will be whether I am prepared for many years or not. See how I do that? I convince myself one thing and then exactly the opposite...

he is going to pull farther away now, not come closer.

This is so true. He will pull away so as not to have to deal with me any more than he has to. I realized while thinking on this that I am so NOT doing a 180 here, he is used to me talking until I am blue in the face, trying to get him to understand where I am coming from to the point where he agrees it is best too. He has told me more than once that this annoys him and he feels "browbeaten" and I need to stop this at once. I can deal (sort of) with him making mistakes HE will regret, it's when he hurts our kids that I have a really hard time letting go.

When you talk to your H and say the things you did here, you aren't DBing, fth. In fact you are doing the opposite. You really need to stop and reread the DB basics. When you remind him how "wrong" he is, you are only driving him farther away. When you show him how he is hurting his kids, you are driving him farther away.

You are right about this too, as I stated above. I will re-read the DR book. I think I need to review the LRT and infidelity sections and I know I am not following the LRT because I am clearly still pursuing him.

"..doesn't like talking to you because it hurts too much". He knows what he is doing is wrong and he doesn't like being reminded of this and will totally stop talking to you at all if it keeps going the same way.

Right again. I guess I hoped that if he talked to me and felt bad enough he would realize his errors and change his mind. I've gotta stop that!

But you need to start doing things that will help YOU get to where you need to be. The sooner you leave your H to work things out himself, the sooner YOU will start to move forward with your own life.

Yes, I do need to start working on me, and not just as it relates to a WAS and DBing and MLC. I need to figure out what I need to do to discover who I am and what I like and who I want to be.

Once again, thank you Matt. You have such a way of getting me to think.

[Matt165]

fth,
Please don't be too hard on yourself. What you are going through is one of the hardest things you will ever go through. It isn't fair, it isn't right, it just is. I have been much closer to God since all this started as my W lost interest in church a few years ago and I just went along (funny how when you start to look back you see how you yourself allow other people to change you without even realizing it's happening!). One thing I have told myself is that God is on his own timeline. There is something I need to learn in all this and until I learn what that is, it will continue. I also remind myself that God does always answer our prayers, just not always the way we hope.

Do the work for you and your kids. Do it because it's what YOU need whatever the outcome with your H. Also, keep in mind that underneath it all, your H isn't really happy. Happy people don't do what he is doing. He is in pain and looking to make that pain stop and the more we try and "help" them stop the pain, the more they will resent us as we are who they have chosen to blame. The best thing you can do is just get out of the way and let him learn on his own how wrong what he is doing is. I doubt his new R with OW is going to last, they usually don't. The best thing you can do is get out of the picture and if he still doesn't become "happy" he can't really blame you if you aren't around.

[fthnluv]

Matt, you are so right about remembering that it is on God's timeline, not ours. If ever. I recently told my sister that this is H's journey to go on but, clearly, it is also MINE. I need to learn a few more lessons too. I have already learned many things that will make me a much better person and W to whomever God leads me to one day.

Also, keep in mind that underneath it all, your H isn't really happy. Happy people don't do what he is doing. He is in pain and looking to make that pain stop and the more we try and "help" them stop the pain, the more they will resent us as we are who they have chosen to blame. The best thing you can do is just get out of the way and let him learn on his own how wrong what he is doing is.

This is a truth I am learning too. I was just saying to my favorite sweet lady at church this morning that I am struggling with the whole idea of holding on to hope for my M to H and also believing with my whole heart that God is working for my good in this. I think it feels to me like if I let go and let God direct my path, no matter where it leads, that somehow it feels like I am giving up on the hope and faith that that path WILL lead to a restored M to H. Giving up on MY hopes and dreams of a life with H to defer to God's plan is still scary to me.

Off to take care of these 3 little blessings... I need to remind myself of my blessings often as I can often only see my pain.

[Shining]

I think it feels to me like if I let go and let God direct my path, no matter where it leads, that somehow it feels like I am giving up on the hope and faith that that path WILL lead to a restored M to H. Giving up on MY hopes and dreams of a life with H to defer to God's plan is still scary to me.

Fth,

It is really scary stuff, this letting go. We become so attached to our original plans, and what we just knew our future would look like.

Our H made promises to us, and to God. And in their "brokenness", they broke those promises and vows.

To let go, as I learned here....does not necessarily mean the same as giving up. It does not mean there is no hope.

It means you love him enough to let him figure himself out.

The hope is that he returns a whole person. That he comes to terms with who he is and what has happened. And he wants to work together on a new, better R.

I know you want to help him, fth. I am the same way.

I kept wanting to "lead" my H down his path. Show him how to face his past. I stopped short of chasing him around the house with self-help books, but not by much.

Fth, we can't lead them. This is a journey that we were not invited to go on. He has to do this on his own. He just has to. That's the only way this works, for him to see it through to the end and come out whole.

When I first realized H was in MLC, I prayed and prayed for my marriage to be restored. I bargained that I would learn how to communicate better. That I would promise to be more patient. That I would listen and fix everything he complained about if we could just have another chance.

Then my eyes really opened to the whole thing, this MLC.

As I realized this was truly a marathon, and H was not going to simply "snap" out of it, I began to really look inward. I'm still looking, and still learning.

My prayers have since changed. I can't control what happens in my M. I can't control what H thinks or does. I can control me. I could pray for my M to be reconciled. It's bigger than that, though.

What I learned, for me, was that I would rather see my H become the man he is meant to be, than have him turn around and come back without learning what he must. To face his demons so he can live a life of peace. So he can become the man God intends, regardless of me. I wouldn't want him to be deprived of the gift of wholeness.

I had to decide to love him enough to let him go. Do I still hope we reconcile? Oh, yes. Very much so. Before that happens, there must be growth.

So, you and I are in a similar stage, fth. I believe, with everything that I am, that what happened was meant to happen. I believe that if H is meant to come back, he will. I am focusing on myself, my kids, learning who I want to be, in "hopes" that one day, my R with H will benefit from my growth. That I can be a better wife going forward. That I can learn lessons I'm supposed to learn.

Regardless of H, these lessons are for me. That I will be better, no matter what the future holds.

There are no guarantees that your H or mine will return. That isn't up to us.

If we use this time we are given, to work on ourselves....really dig deep.... We cannot lose.

It is so important, fth. Keep the focus on you.

(((((((Hugs)))))))). I'm in this with you, fth.

[fthnluv]

Fth, we can't lead them. This is a journey that we were not invited to go on. He has to do this on his own. He just has to. That's the only way this works, for him to see it through to the end and come out whole.

I like how you say this is a journey we are not INVITED to go on. I never looked at it like that. It's like he's taking a trip and says "no, you can't come". I can't change that and he will go alone. He must go alone... And I must go on a journey too, alone. I must go on a journey to discover who I am, without him and not just as a Mom either. I am coming to realize that this really is the way it MUST be.

What I learned, for me, was that I would rather see my H become the man he is meant to be, than have him turn around and come back without learning what he must. To face his demons so he can live a life of peace. So he can become the man God intends, regardless of me. I wouldn't want him to be deprived of the gift of wholeness.

I had to decide to love him enough to let him go. Do I still hope we reconcile? Oh, yes. Very much so. Before that happens, there must be growth.

This is so true too. He cannot come back as he is now, or even how he was. I cannot be the person I have been and was. We BOTH need to use this time to grow and hopefully one day we will grow back together but I need to learn that I will be ok, even if we do not reconcile.

Is it really just a *decision* to let him go and let God handle it? I know I need to do that and somehow I feel like I can't. It's like the image in Titanic where Rose lets Jack go and he dies. I guess I figure if I let go of H he will not make it without me. Not that H is giving me any other choice, in fact he's pushing my hands off his and saying "let me go". I need to work on this. I think I'll begin to pray that God helps me let him go.


So, I finally told my parents about H filing for D tonight. My Dad is mad but supports me in standing for our M and says he will welcome H with open arms should he choose to come around for D4's party or anything else. That is a relief, because my Dad tends to get a little testy and speak what is on his mind (I wonder where I got it?). He will support me in welcoming H so that is a huge relief. I also told my Grandmother (who I am VERY close to, and she knew some of what was going on prior to D filing) and she also supports me and H completely and was telling me about 2 different sets of family friends where they split and reconciled after anywhere from 3-7 years and are still married to this day, happily. It seems that most everyone I tell my story to tell me of someone they know that has reconciled. I'm not sure if that is God trying to give me hope or if it's just the law of averages...

[Shining]

Fth,

This is so true too. He cannot come back as he is now, or even how he was. I cannot be the person I have been and was.

Exactly. Because that didn't work. With 2 "whole" people that have the desire to work on the R, it is the deepest, most fulfilling M that can come from that.

We BOTH need to use this time to grow and hopefully one day we will grow back together but I need to learn that I will be ok, even if we do not reconcile

As far as BOTH of you using the time...Ideally. Yes. We can hope for our H's to do the same. They may not. But that is not within your control.

Besides, even if we told them exactly what to do, unless and until they are ready to receive that information, and work through it, it will not mean diddly to them.

They have to first realize the need. Then they have to decide to do the work. And they have to do this on their own. The best thing is to stay out of their way.

The energy focusing on whether they do or they don't face their demons, is a waste of headspace that could be used on YOU. So many on this board wished they started their GAL and working on themselves sooner. Many regret wasting time on H. Really do it, fth. You will not regret it.

"You" are the best investment you could make right now.

Is it really just a *decision* to let him go and let God handle it? I know I need to do that and somehow I feel like I can't.

Fth, I have asked the same thing.

It is not as easily done by making a simple decision. It is a process. It's also one of the most difficult parts to this. It will take a long time.

You're discovery of ow is still very new for you. What you are thinking, feeling, wondering are all to be expected. All of us here who learned of ow/om have been exactly where you are. And fth, I believe you are exactly where you should be in this.

I guess I figure if I let go of H he will not make it without me.

I know you want to fix him. I did, too. It's what I've always done. Fix things. Make it all better.

It was written to me once, that he has to do this for himself, in order to learn the valuable part of his own journey. It is his. If you tried to fix it for him, even if he came back for a while, he would have skipped over some important steps along the way.

You want him. Of course you do. To me, truly loving him doesn't mean you want him with you at all costs. Loving him is stepping aside for a while, and allowing him to focus on himself, while you focus on YOU.

The truth is, fth, you don't want him back as he is now. You could tactically draw him toward you, but it would not succeed. Not long term. You would end up exactly where you are now, possibly stalling any chance of reconciling.

He has to get through all of it. He has to make a choice to work on the M from a place of health. You have to make the choices from a place of strength.

Even then, there are no guarantees. Becoming the best fthnluv you can be, gives your M the best possible chance. I know it's hard. You can do this.

Take care of fth. There is no better place for your attention.

[fthnluv]

Thanks Shining. Your words are so true and also encouraging.

Today, I will begin to GAL. I am committing to doing at least 1 small thing, each day, to help me towards a goal for ME. Today, I am going to resume my math practice I had been doing so that I can do the assessment test to get back into school next semester.

I think doing long division and exponents is a good way to keep my mind off of H anyway...

Hope everyone has a great day!

[fthnluv]

Did some ME work yesterday. Went back into my online practice for math assessment and made some progress. Had been 31 days since I had done it last, it told me, so I had to relearn some of the stuff again. At least I did something for me and my life I have ahead of me.

Went to bible study today. Man, the study we are doing just hits home. REMIX is the word of the day... I thought my life was going along fine and now REMIX... let's see where this takes me.

Texted with H and he is not coming for D4's birthday party, but we already knew that. He is going to come next weekend instead which works ok because the kids have a 3 day weekend that date anyway. I asked if he was open to taking the kids to the pumpkin patch together and he said yes. That's good, better for the kids for us all to be together. I plan to not discuss anything regarding financial settlements or our R unless he brings it up. No pressure. I want him to want to spend time as a family, not run away. Even if we never reconcile it is best for the kids for us to do these things together as friends if we can.

Talked to my sister about this yesterday. She can't wrap her head around his decisions and says what he is doing doesn't make sense (I did not tell her about OW) and I told her that MLC does not make any sense, no matter how she tries she still will not understand or make sense of it, I still can't. I told her that the hallmarks of MLC (to me) are 180's in his personality and what used to mean something to him no longer does and complete selfishness. She's still trying to make sense of it and we know it doesn't make sense.

Onward and upward on MY journey!