too late?

[jim0987]

So a typical disagreement would go:

W: have you got the kids for 5 minutes while I do my makeup

M: yeah fine

W: I've got to do my makeup

M: I said it was fine

W: don't be like that. I never get any time to do my makeup

M: (20 minutes later) I need to go as I'm going to be late again.

W: I've got to do my makeup so I can drop the kids off and get to work.

M: I know but to do my hours and get home in time to help with bedtime I can't leave this late. And I'm late nearly everyday.

W: well its really hard for me

M: well we need to come up with a better plan then because at the moment I'm defrauding my employer.

W: just go then.


I think this kind of shows what she means as although I'm offering a solution I'm not really listening to her concerns. We both go away annoyed my W that I'm putting my job over her and me because I feel she us putting me in an impossible position.

[jim0987]

MrBond, 25yearsMLC, you really have a way of making people take a good hard look at themselves. Thanks

I think your right I think I was/am a bully without ever realising this is what I was doing. I think its driven by my insecurities and any time I was made to feel insecure I would lose control of my emotions and lash out in a passive/aggressive way (sounds a bit like a child I know).

The more rejected I felt the worse I was and the more rejected I became. And so on.

I feel like I've been better since her dad died but its never fully gone away and the extremes of 3 years ago with have made my W sensitive to it and far less tolerant. I expect any time she was starting to forgive me I would do something to undo months of progress. And I expect our damaged communication (because of my reactions) made it hard for any misunderstandings to be cleared up.

The kids were easy. I gave them love and got love back. I felt wanted. That feeling of feeling loved and wanted by my W disappeared making it harder and harder to show her the love she wanted.

The pedestal comment comes from her - she wants to feel like she is the centre of someone's world. That they would go through fire and brimstone for her. The stupid thing is I would (she just would have needed to ask).

When she met her ex it whipped my thin veneer of security in our R out from underneath me and I have been punishing her ever since trying to recover that security and in the process doing all the wrong things.

Well there's a hell of a therapy session for me....

[MrBond]

While your insecurity may have been PART of why you acted the way you did, you're still coming up with excuses and a scorecard. Just admit to the part you did WITHOUT saying "but she" etc.

" The stupid thing is I would (she just would have needed to ask)."

She DID ask. Even in your example.

"W: have you got the kids for 5 minutes while I do my makeup" This is how she asked.

And this is how you responded..."M: yeah fine"

and with a the snarky response of...

"M: well we need to come up with a better plan then because at the moment I'm defrauding my employer. "

You didn't really care about her and still don't. You just care now because you're afraid to be alone.

Is this how you talked to her when you first dated? Not listening to her? Blowing her off? Being snarky?

[jim0987]

Whatever the reasons I did what I did. What I did was to make her feel unloved and underappreciated.

I don't think I can necessarily overcome it without understanding why I behaved the way I did.

At the moment I can't help to think the 'yeah but...' In my example the first 50 times weren't like that. I doormatted then resented it. But if I'm right your point is that that is not the point. I resented my own behaviour and then chose to hear blame when that's not what was happening.

Translating the previous example she was trying to say 'I need more help' I heard 'you're not good enough'. That's me reading the negative into things which I do way too much of.

The snarky has always been there its just until I started feeling rejected I don't think my W was ever on the receiving end.

And no its not that I'm afraid to be alone I'll do fine on my own. I love her and I want to share in her life. My happiness I get from helping people I care about acheive their goals.

Right now us staying together would be selfish, because I do not make her happy and happiness is what I want for her.

My fear is that she moves even further on to someone else and then I miss the opportunity to have a 2nd marriage to her that is more like the one she deserves. But you know what if I didn't have that fear, if it wasn't that I want to be the one by her side then I would simply throw in the towel and move on.

So I realise my current M can't and shouldn't be saved. what I can do is start the work that I need to do to build a new and infinitely better R with the amazing woman who happens to have just left me. And if it doesn't work, if I can't earn her love and respect, then I'll have done the groundwork for whatever comes next in my life.

[jim0987]

Sorry if that seems reactionary. Youre hitting close to home on a lot of things MrBond. I think I need that.

One thing you said was that I didn't care. That's absolutely not true. What is true and I didn't realise is that everything I did/said showed that I just cared way more about me.

And there is something I can turn into a 180 and really work to change about myself.

25yearsMLC talked about volunteering - that might have the double benefit of helping me make it not about me while at the same time be a big part in GAL'g

[jim0987]

On a couple of different threads I've seen Sandi talk about two books by Michelle Langley (?). I definitely thinks its worth reading but I was wondering if there is any sensible way to get my W to read them?

Anything I've can come up with is controlling (which wanting her to read them is) and is likely ti realky wind her up. At the same time I get the impression it will help.

I'm 99.9% sure I know the answer is no but thought I'd ask

[bdub]

I have read 4 or 5 really good books in the past 3 months. After I finish each one I simply take the book to my W and tell her I am done with it and say here it is if you want to read it. She takes it and puts it in the night stand on the side of the bed that used to be hers. At least I know where they are if I need them for reference.

[25yearsmlc]

On a couple of different threads I've seen Sandi talk about two books by Michelle Langley (?). I definitely thinks its worth reading but I was wondering if there is any sensible way to get my W to read them?


1) I'm not familiar with those books, so I can't comment b/c I lack experience/knowledge of their content. And, don't you? I mean, you have not read the books either, but you are ready to suggest that your wife should?

(Do you see any problem with that^^ scenario?) Read them first on your own. THEN let's chat about how to get HER to do what you have not yet done...

2) it's NOT your job to suggest what might "help HER"...help her what? Change? That is SO NOT your job or place... Not your job to fix her. Plus it implies she needs fixing, (and by you...really?) OR to help her...be happier? I'd have to read the actual books in question, to know the answer.

I CAN imagine a scenario in which she reads the books and sees a "trick" you use (i.e. a technique suggested for better communication, as one potential example) and then she decides it was Not a sincere or authentic change in you that triggered the new behavior (i.e. the "trick") but a tactic of your controlling, manipulating self.
If it's not seen as an authentic change or insight on YOUR End, just another same old same old (="control")... that is a big way to backfire in that scenario.


Anything I've can come up with is controlling (which wanting her to read them is) and is likely ti realky wind her up. At the same time I get the impression it will help.

I'm 99.9% sure I know the answer is no but thought I'd ask

Like I said, read the books first. And get real about this b/c although it's a small matter, it's telling. You are asking us the following:

"Should I try to get my spouse to read a book I HEARD was good- but have not gotten around to reading myself...?"

So, any insights into WHY you would want your wife to read it. Does it suggest a wife return to a sad marriage? --

See, On one hand, I think there must be a reason for you to want her to read it, but then I wonder How valuable it can be if you yourself have not read it yet...

So the answer at this point is NO, Because:

1) I have not read it myself, so I'm not familiar with it enough to know the "real" value of said book,

2) but I do know that a person recommending a book TO their estranged spouse, tends to negate the value of that book in the other spouse's eyes.

Another person mentioning it might get somewhere, but not the LBH.

And finally,

3) IMO, one should read a book yourself, before you suggest to Anyone that they read it.

Make sense?

Also, I HIGHLY recommend you look into the workshop called "Essential Experience" (aka "EE") which is conducted in Philadelphia. I've been to several personal growth "touchy feely" workshops and retreats.

This is, by far, the best one for individuals to break down walls they've built for years. "EE" is profound & deep, whereas a lot of workshops scratch the surface of issues and touch on solutions but don't "get you around all the bases to home plate".
In other words, at EE, you'll have enough continuity to work on your issues to get to an action plan, and follow up support is plentiful and cheap/free.

For me, one problem with weekly therapy is how fragmented it can be. You may have an insight or real breakthrough, but then you have to go get the kids or go back to work...the following week you need to start all over again to reach where you were when you had the insight IF you can recall it all, ETC.


And that's when you have a good therapist! Also, Essential Experience is "experiential" so instead of the lecture format, you will experience the exercises that will reveal to you, things about you. Reactions, responses that are genuine and unrehearsed. Speaking for myself, I have "edited" my answers to questions in the past b/c I know how they will "Sound" to a therapist or my h.

So for me, to go to EE and discover a lot about myself in one long weekend, was just amazing. Then, to have also left there on Sunday night with a workable Action Plan, is just remarkable.

Literally, a life changing workshop.

A number of DBers have attended, and say the same. (Power Of Now, Autumn Leaves, Lucky Luke, Stubborn Dyke, to name some)...

I went many years ago. When my h picked me up at the airport afterwards, he later said he could tell I had "done something miraculous..." and he said HE wanted to go as well, on his own. And he did. And he loved it. Later on we went together, as "TEAM" helpers, and boy was that bonding!

So check out their website. And Good luck.

[MrBond]

On a couple of different threads I've seen Sandi talk about two books by Michelle Langley (?). I definitely thinks its worth reading but I was wondering if there is any sensible way to get my W to read them?"

Ha ha. That's a funny statement. The answer is NO. That's controlling and pursuing.

"Anything I've can come up with is controlling (which wanting her to read them is) and is likely ti realky wind her up. At the same time I get the impression it will help."

Nope. In fact it will push her farther away because you're forcing her (yes that's what it is) to read something that she doesn't believe.

Don't do it.

[MrBond]

bdub,

"I have read 4 or 5 really good books in the past 3 months. After I finish each one I simply take the book to my W and tell her I am done with it and say here it is if you want to read it. She takes it and puts it in the night stand on the side of the bed that used to be hers. At least I know where they are if I need them for reference.

That's the worst thing you could do, especially if they're relationship books.