Hi I'm new, I hope I won't be a burden... prt 4

[25yearsmlc]

Ok i tried encouraging her to go out and see her friends but she thinks im up to something like setting up a camera.

I had a great opportunity to go do photography for a birthday party but she had a issue with it apparantly how i wanted to go to check out other girls. How i wouldve had to check them out via the camera, how i would have had to make sure they look hot in every picture so i would have to judge them. So instead i cancelled it to keep her happy.

Did you believe that she had ANY justification for her fears? Have you EVER flirted with other women? Ever "checked" them out? Why would you wife fear that? is your wife "insanely jealous" or does she have some reason for her beliefs?

Did you cancel it to keep the peace, OR because she had a point, or both?

IF you are not the type to cheat or flirt, (at least not anymore), then

at some point you'll need to convince her of that --with action--or you'll never be able to reconcile and stay married.


And yeah mr bond i do want to change my male dominated oppinions i want to allow her to be herself.

^^ Sounds good, but that means sometimes you won't get "your" way. On the other hand, you will be in a relationship of equals and when she "lets" you get your way you'll know she's doing it b/c she loves you, not b/c she fears you.

In my heart/mind, that feels a lot better than getting my way b/c I bullied someone into that or whined enough to get my way.

To me, there's no better feeling in the whole universe, than

feeling understood & loved for being just me, just as I am.

How would it make You feel?


My plan of action is to just focus on moving myself forward, staying strong, not talking about us to her, and just enjoying the moments i have with her. Make her feel loved and understood.

HOW will you "make" her feel understood and loved?

I have some suggestions that MAY work but nothing is guaranteed and we ALL have moods. Like the moon and the sun, we all "ebb and flow".

Sometimes something will work better than it did before, or NOT as well.

But when she speaks to you, LISTEN WELL. In fact, you need to listen so well that if she asked you to repeat what she just said, you could.

In fact, I suggest you BEGIN to "re-cap" what she tells you right after, and here is why.

First, it will actually help you listen better (b/c you know you're going to repeat it to her and you don't want to miss out on an important fact!) AND b/c repeating what she just told you helps HER FEEL listened to, and reinforces whatever she said, in your memory so you will recall it better, later on.

That means when she's talking, you make FULL EYE CONTACT with her (don't stare off at another object -or woman-and don't look up as if you are rolling your eyes or look down as if you do not believe her...look at HER

LISTEN WELL (even when she's angry or sad, LISTEN FOR CLUES about what you can do to help),

OR what you may have done that caused her pain, like you are on a "mission" okay? RE-CAP what she just told you but ask her first.

"W, I want to be sure I understand exactly what you are saying. May I re-cap what I think you just said and if I missed something or misunderstood, PLEASE let me know so I get this right..." and then re-cap what she just told you.

This will help her a lot, to feel listened to and feeling as if the person IS really listening to you, definitely makes you feel more cared for and more valued.

Make sense? That is

ADVICE/Suggestion #1. Implement that and you will see improvements.

Do NOT interrupt her when she is talking. (I read that Men interrupt 6 times more often than women...)

When you re-cap what she tells you, ASK HER what she would prefer you do, "From this day forward".

In most marriage vows, at least in our culture, the words "from this day forward" are there. I think they're genius b/c it means we both must let go of the past.

And go "from this day forward". See my point?

So, if you both can do that, from now on ("From this day forward") you MIGHT be able to salvage things.

But you used the terms "betrayal" when there was NO betrayal, you kept harping about forgiving HER< but SHE is the one who needs to forgive you.

Hopefully she will learn to forgive but it'll be way way easier for her to forgive you if she sees you making changes and trying hard to earn back her trust.

ADVICE/SUGGESTION #2:

Also you used the terms "slut, bitch, whore," and a few other terms that I believe cannot ever be said to a woman, unless you are fine with losing her forever.

"Bitch" is a word that gets thrown out in fights and sometimes people forgive their spouse for using that term

"Slut/whore" and accusations of sleaze and adultery are a lot harder to understand, let alone forgive. They involve negative images AND sexual behavior, which is a very personal thing to say to a woman.

If my h said those ^^ words, geez....I cannot even go there in my mind to imagine what I'd do (thought I might ask him to get a CAT Scan of his head, if it were my h saying those words about ME...way out of character and very offensive).

So I'd eliminate those words from your vocabulary and never let them out of your mouth to her again. If you do, apologize right away.

Do NOT let those words hang around. Even when you think she is so wrong, don't disrespect her that way.

Be the gentleman. Have too much class to talk that way about her or toward any woman. Be GALLANT. It's incredibly attractive.


^^^This is a start, with a long road ahead of you. But the road isn't a horrible rough one; there will be fun and good times on this road, along with work and sacrifice.

IF you can manage to make THESE few changes , then at least we will know you are capable of it (=change). So will your wife, and we can go from there.

1Wish, if you don't change now, with this type of support, when will you?

Good luck!

[1Wish]

I can do that and im willing to do whatevers necessary...

Iwould also like to point out that i am not the religious type.. i was born and braught up in the uk... i do not want a subservient wife.. i want to be with someone that can accept me for who i am and love me for it. That being said, i also want to be an amazing person i want to be successful and a really good person who has good morals and demeaner.

I moved out a little while ago and she literally begged me back.. i went back straight away.. and then she started to go back to her old ways of ending things.. we went on holiday which she booked as a surprise and we really enjoyed ourselves but i could tell she had something on her mind.


i havnt called her no names it was just that once.. i have put up with everything she threw at me and became a doormat. She said stuff about my parents every single day. Even on holiday!! I put up with it.

Now she had a word woth me and said look im gna put all my cards out on the table....

When i first got with you i saw you as a project, i saw the potential to make you someone who is amazing.. and everything i wanted you have become.. but now ive changed as a person and i dont want it anymore. Its sad to see you leave and even more knowing what i wanted some other womans gonna have. But i dont want this life anymore.. i feel that ive given this relationship so much of my patience effort and time that i lost myself. I dont have any respect left for you, i dont love you anymore and i dont want to be in thism i want you to move out now and i want a divorce.

I want to only focus on my self and do what i missed out on through the time we were together, i want to focus on my hobbies, interests and become someone amazing and independant. I want to go into a career and not be a girl who goes from one admin job to another. I want to go back to uni and get a degree.

Even though you changed and become perfect i can never forget the person you were and how you mistreated me and neglected me.

I will never forget that and thats why we can never be together

[MrBond]

I have a feeling that you skipped alot of details. Did you ever go to C?

We all told you that moving back so quickly when you haven't changed was a bad thing so this is the consequence.

Fill in the blanks for us. Why did she talk bad about your parents? What changes have you actually made? it sounds like she's testing you.

[25yearsmlc]

When you both lived with your family, your mother behaved very badly to your wife. She judged her harshly, and you did NOT stick up for your wife.

In fact one of the many problems your marriage had was just that; your wife did not feel you had her back, and she was right.

You let your mother berate and judge your wife. ( Didn't your whole family follow your mother's lead, and begin to berate your wife or make snide remarks about her, behind her back?

You did Not stand up to your family for your wife. I know it's hard to do, but that's what real men do for their women; like the bible says

...Not to be too "Christian specific" here, or even religious, BUT to give you a meaningful cultural view that most of us western women were raised to believe about our marriages and our husbands, okay?

To most of us, Marriage means that

"a man shall leave his family, & cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one."

^^^That is our perspective on what marriage means.

You & your wife are now "THE family" that You are in. You are the "First Family" and then the "Extended" family includes your family of origin, --your mom and dad and siblings & HERS, okay?
EXAMPLE (small one) of loyalty in a marriage...

When I was first married, my h made a weird mistake and "trimmed" a tree in my parents front yard. But it was a really unusual EXPENSIVE tree they had ordered and h's tree "trimming" was like a military haircut. Way TOO SHORT and not requested by my parents! My parents were furious.

Now, I can tell YOU guys here on DB, that my husband was wrong. And I can tell YOU GUYS HERE on DB, that it's one of the oddest things h has ever done in all the years I've known him.

At the time, (privately, internally) I knew h was out of line, (and my dad was also over reacting), although for the life of me I did not know WHY h had done it.

(Years Later I came to realize that my h is a little compulsive about landscaping and can't stand "sloppy" trees. Of course that does not matter or excuse, but it explained it to ME). But sure, yes I knew h was wrong.

Still I DEFENDED HIM to my parents til I was blue in the face. I felt I had to. H appreciated it. Also, he apologized to my parents.

I'm pretty sure if I had Not backed my h up, he would not have been able to swallow his pride to apologize.

But b/c I was loyally supporting him, he was able to calm down, "take his armor off" and TALK with my dad man to man...

I just don't think you know this^^ stuff (about loyalty----\\

NOTE Loyalty is not what you give or show your wife when it's easy or when everyone expects it.
Loyalty counts most when it's the hardest to give/show. Like when your own mom says a nasty comment about the woman you chose as your wife, the woman who may someday mother YOUR children. But that is when it counts most.

Maybe you did not see loyalty or conflict resolution OR a happily married couple, when you were growing up.

Somehow you did not get all these "tips" on how to be a good husband. But you still need them.

Take the guess work OUT of this and find some good role models for what a happy couple looks like and how they behave and what a healthy self respecting man does when he disagrees with someone.
(HINT: there is no yelling and no insulting).

Iwish, What was your dad like to your mom?

IWISH, don't forget that You also judged your wife harshly, not just your family.
I'm sure that is coloring her views of things.

Remember when your w had planned a surprise beach trip for you two? She didn't want you to know about it all, b/c she was handling it on her own---

So she got all excited about planning it, (such a touching vision in my head). I recall giving her a thumbs up symbol while reading your post, at first. I thought "wow, she's really coming around & getting it! Good, they have a chance!"

Then You came here on the boards, and you were angry at her. You called her names b/c she packed some shorts for the beach,
she did not read your mind to "know" you would call her a bitch and a slut
(for packing shorts!!) Mind boggling to everyone who read it & bothered to comment. Some never came back to your thread.

Do you think You got that from your mom, who poisoned your family against your wife?

It is crucial for women to feel protected and provided for, by their husbands.

SO if We women want protection/security from our husbands, and instead of being our protector, he is one of our attackers, that is a rough betrayal to get over.

Of course your wife resents that. Any/Every woman would.
[u]

Just FYI, you really need to know this.

When a man does Not defend his wife to HIS own family, it's very dangerous for the marriage.
In my opinion, it almost always means the marriage will End in divorce, OR at least one of them will wish it had ended in divorce.

So yeah, it's a big deal. In your wife's situation, loyalty is even more important b/c of her own orphaned w/"no family for her" background.

She wanted YOU to be her family. Marrying you was her way of having, finally, her own family, someone who would always be there FOR HER, someone who would watch HER back...and her own place to live, grow, learn and maybe someday her own place to raise her own family with her husband...

I'm not trying to rub this in your face, okay? I swear.

But you failed your wife in this ^^ important matter. In this regard, you let her down quite badly.

If she has not seen very different behavior from you on this front, consistently, then maybe it's best for HER --Not to get back with you.

What do you think?

[1Wish]

I have a feeling that you skipped alot of details. Did you ever go to C?

We all told you that moving back so quickly when you haven't changed was a bad thing so this is the consequence.

Fill in the blanks for us. Why did she talk bad about your parents? What changes have you actually made? it sounds like she's testing you.

yeah you and my friends were right, dont move back in too quick. Big mistake.

ive been putting up with everything if im being honest.

only my insecurity got in the way. I questioned her here and there if she spoke to that guy. And one day found a card saying thing of you. It was brand new i questioned her and she said it was for a staff member that just left.

I dont think shes testing me.. what makes you say that and what is she testing me on?

Well i get counselling from my sister now.. funnily she has a degree in phycology and she said this:

[01/10 11:04] sis: Act indifferent, you need to willingly go without being clingy, don't fight her to make her change her mind because most likely she won't. Make her think you're moving on with your life. While you're away, work on yourself, keep yourself busy. And don't think like that, there are loads of girls out there, don't compare her to everyone. Think about all the good qualities you have. And anyways, you don't know if you're gonna lose her just yet. She can do all of the things she wants to become that amazing person whilst still being with you. You just have to support her dreams. But in order to get to that point, you need to be the bigger man and just leave before she kicks you out.
You'll be okay, you just have to learn to be independent and obviously we're all here to support you
[01/10 11:09] me: What do you mean act indifferent?
[01/10 11:10] sis: Act as if this doesn't bother you, whatever happens happens
[01/10 11:10] me: But not in a rude or cold way?
[01/10 11:11] sis: Yeah exactl, Don't be like bye, I'm gone &#58398;
[01/10 11:15] me: But do i contact her after
Or just let it be?
[01/10 11:17] sis: I don't think you should. Let her contact you first
[01/10 11:18] me: And then?
But i need 2 detach fully first right
Have time for me to be independant n happy without her
N give her the same time to remove all negatove associations
After a while she wont b angry at me amymore
[01/10 11:21] sis: I think she'll still remember the things you did to her, it'll still be in the back of her head but those thoughts will dull down in time
In the mean time, become a better person. Don't pretend to be better, you need to genuinely become someone more amazing. Not just for her but also for yourself. And when she sees that, she'll want you back
There was a point in your life when you were fine without her and you can go back to that. But remember, you need to work on yourself
[01/10 11:29] me: Yh
I need my mojo back
I need 2 regain my self confidence
I need 2 let it walk and move on in life
And not worry if she comes back or not
If she does then i should take it from there
If she dont it shouldnt matter because i would have accepted that and given all hope for her return
And progress for a brighter future
Life goes on...
This can only make me a stronger individual
[01/10 11:35] sis: Exactly! And I know it seems impossible right now to get back to that point but trust me you can. Don't let this relationship define you, you are your own person
[01/10 11:36] me: It sounds easy
But due to my feelings its very hard to let go
[01/10 11:38] sis: You need time and space. You don't know what's going to happen, she might come back
[01/10 12:01] me: Hmm
I wanna vent all my feelings and stuff
Coz i no 1 day wen im strong again i want to look back and see how irrational i acted
[01/10 12:15] sis: Bad idea, you want to look back and see that you've acted rational and that you did everything you could. You need to start changing yourself from now, not tomorrow, not next week. Acting irrational will mean undoing everything you've changed so far

[1Wish]

@25 I just had a big click.. your right about the whole defending thing.. when we were going through all the notions and i first found out about thw other guy.. i told my friends and my friend spoke to my wife and they got into an argument and he called her a slut and she expected me to back her up.

I was in such a emotional state against her that i didnt. Ofcourse now that i look back its one of my many regrets

So my question to you 25 is how can these things be rectified?

[1Wish]

Ok so yesterday me and her had a chat and i used I statements and apologised for my wrong doings in the relationship but didnt act all soft. I was very understanding and i was very careful. I said i didnt want this to end but im not going to stoo her leaving if thats what she wanted. She seemed to talk about it more.

Today she got jelouse about my manager buying me breakfast.. and said atleast now you got a slutty whore for yourself. You two can now do stuff with eachother :s... anyways she met me after work and kept tellin me about her future plans. How shes going to try getting another job and get a car for herself. She seemed very enthusiastic about it.

She doesnt seem at all bothered about us ending... but a song was played in my car.. young and beautiful by lana del ray.. it brought tears to her eyes but she acted strong and started talkin loud and talking about random things on the road.. like reading an ad on a bus loud... i could tell it affected her.

I really do feel her pain.. i can imagine that even though shes ending it.. it seems as though its also hurting her inside but shes putting a brave face on. Shes a good person and i do hope the best for her. I just wish we could work out.. but not like this.. not if we cant be happy together.. i feel as though moving out may be a very viable option as it will help remove negative association from me in her mind. And maybe one day we can re-ignite the fire. I want to be there for her and help her out.. but i dont want to seem like im intruding. I get paid fairly well and she doesn't. I actually changed to the person she wanted me to become. But i never took the time to realise that i let her treat me like a doormat.. i let her loose respect.

Ive learnt from this and i hope the very best for her.. i truelly love her and i really want it to work. I feel im much more stronger now but have the occasional anxiety atyacks and act irrational. I feel ive grown as an individual but the road is very long and this is just a start.

Once i move out i want to do 101 things that will make me a better person. I want to volunteer to help people in need.. learn to ride a motorbike.. learn to play the piano. LEARN TO MEDITATE!! and quit smoking

I also want to work towards a future where me and her can get back together and make it work. I have never gave up on anything but maybe not giving up is whats keeping me in a standstill? Maybe im holding on to something thats not meant to be.. not right now anyways? I dont know. But im a logical thinker and believe in science. Theres no such thing as the one and theres no right or wrong person. You just have to have mutual understanding and respect and learn to compromise.

Today when we got home we spoke about her mum and dad and how she has no one. I was again understanding. I hope she realises that shes made a mistake by breaking up. Rather than regretting it. I will in that time move on and focus on bettering myself so i never hurt anyone again.

I feel like this experience has changed me fully.

[Card29]

Just remember, if you don't focus on making and sustaining these changes for a long time (months/years), they will not be permanent changes but rather a temporary phase. You have to make it part of your personality for it to be permanent, and that just takes time and effort. It will be a long road with or without her, so just be aware of that so you can fight against discouragement

[Wonka]

1Wish,

I really liked how your sister framed the most basic DBing principles. She seems to know what this is all about.

Once i move out i want to do 101 things that will make me a better person. I want to volunteer to help people in need.. learn to ride a motorbike.. learn to play the piano. LEARN TO MEDITATE!! and quit smoking

No. You don't wait until you move out to do those stuff. It starts NOW. Just get out of the house and just do them. GALing will be the best thing you've done right next to treating your W with respect she deserves. All of this starts NOW. Not 5 minutes later...tomorrow, next week.

Nike: Just Do It

[1Wish]

1Wish,

I really liked how your sister framed the most basic DBing principles. She seems to know what this is all about.

Once i move out i want to do 101 things that will make me a better person. I want to volunteer to help people in need.. learn to ride a motorbike.. learn to play the piano. LEARN TO MEDITATE!! and quit smoking

No. You don't wait until you move out to do those stuff. It starts NOW. Just get out of the house and just do them. GALing will be the best thing you've done right next to treating your W with respect she deserves. All of this starts NOW. Not 5 minutes later...tomorrow, next week.

Nike: Just Do It

ok i have a piano at home so will learn a new song! And i feel like i treated her with so much respect unless im mistaking it for smothering her.. that she has lost all respect.