Your situation is SO HARD and I want to say the ONE thing that is so profound and meaningful that it changes your whole perspective and makes you feel better... but I just don't know the answer.
The question of "WHY?" in your situation is so HUGE. It just doesn't make sense and we can spend the rest of our lives trying to figure it out and I'll be frank... I don't think your H even knows. There is literally no one on this planet who can actually answer the biggest over-hanging question in your situation and THAT is overwhelmingly frustrating, I am sure.
I guess the big question now is: Does it matter?
I'm going to say No. It doesn't matter at this point WHY he left. It only matters if you want to stand. And you don't have to know now. And you can change your mind, multiple times if you feel you need to.
Those of us who can pinpoint specific reasons that lead to the failure of our marriages have the distinct advantage of working on those specific issues and that gives us hope (though no guarantee). You, however, have nothing to go on and the pain that comes with that is immeasurable. In fact, I think it would be TERRIBLY STRANGE if you didn't wonder if you should keep standing. He HAS been terrible to you in every single way. Who could blame you for not standing? For moving on and never looking back?
So I will ask you a hard question:
Why are you standing?
Any answer to that question is a good answer but it's important for you to know why. I suggest you figure out if you're standing simply because then you wouldn't be rejected because, while that's enough to keep you standing, it won't enough to keep a marriage afloat should that happen, you know?
I imagine that if H called you tonight saying "I want to come back" you'd be thrilled at first but given some time you might vacillate a little, right? You don't want the man he has turned into, right? You want loyalty, honesty, kindness and he has not exhibited these traits in a while.
So, basically you want R with certain conditions. As he is right now you don't want him back. That's what it sounds like you're deciding.
I don't think it's bad for you to move on and detach and be completely dark, mentally leave him behind. He basically has not given you any other option.
But you can give yourself options. You have THAT control. You can stand. You can drop that rope so hard it smacks him in the face. You can withdraw into a world of confusion and bitterness and wonder what went wrong and never trust another soul again (doesn't sound fun but it IS an option). You can open an ashram and preach peace and love and do yoga all day. Or you can get up tomorrow and say, "Who knows what the heck is going on with him, I know who I am, I know what I value, I know what I stand for and I do not compromise my core values".
It sounds to me he let go of an amazing gem of a woman. I wonder often (is it weird that I think about your situation so much?) whether his buddies are like, "dude, what did you do? Lisa is awesome, you two were awesome together. What has gotten into you?"
You can only control you. He can barely control himself.
Take this time, this precious gift of time and figure out why you're standing. The ugly honest truth of it. Then assess whether it's a reason that is consistent with your core values.
We'll be here either way. (((hugs)))
p.s. it's a good thing we don't give names of spouses here because I'd be THAT person sending hate mail to your husband. Frequently.
Ss -I just love you to pieces!!! Thank you for that awesome bit of wisdom! And for the support in hating my H along with me! And for calling me a gem. Woo hoo!
You ask the exact questions I am asking myself. And you answer my questions the way I would as well. Why am I standing? What do I want? Do I even want him?
And yes the truth is, I am doing it all for myself. He's become a new and worse person who I want nothing to do with. If he remains that person then good riddance. But if the H I knew came back, maybe I would be open to it.
I also wonder what his friends and family tell him. I think many of them are encouraging him to find himself and sow his oats. Before BD he also made a group of new and immature friends so they aren't helping the situation. They love partying and being promiscuous. But most of our common friends and his family adore me, whether or not they think he should stay with me is unknown. (my friends hate him and think he is a loser) Oddly a few of his/our male friends have been contacting me lately wanting to socialize, a bit unexpected. I wonder if they are trying to get the gossip from my side or if it is just that they miss seeing me or if it is just random.
I just read something from Maybell on Ganb8te's thread: "My DB coach said that our expectations often determines outcomes, so give yourself your best chance and expect positive things."
And it blew my mind a little bit.
My negative thinking is not going to help me get a positive result. It may help me drop the rope and smack him upside the head with it, but if I'm not sure that is what I want then maybe I should be a little more positive.
Thanks to you Ss for the terrific advice and to Maybell too!
I love the quote from maybell on Ganb8te's thread! I'd like to think that's how I'm living but be cautious, and I keep reminding myself to be too because it can be dangerous if not done correctly.
My expectation is that, after some solid time, serious soul searching and healing, my H will come back home. This is a VERY positive way of thinking but it could also be fantasy-thinking. Make very clear the distinction.
Some may interpret having positive expectations and thinking positively as license to day dream and be unrealistic. I'm not accusing you of doing that of course but I want to make sure people don't think, "oh it's perfectly ok for me to ignore my faults and just positively expect him home. Great! Done!"
Positive expectations isn't a way to avoid the hard work.
We love you Lisa.
I go back and forth between mentally castrating your H and wishing very bad things for OW because she's just low down dirty. If your state was one of the few that permitted suing for alienation of affection, I'd be inclined to consider it. Not that it would get you anywhere but I'd REALLY want to.
It's very hurtful when your H paints you in a negative light to OW. My H has been doing that. He is desperately doing the online dating thing and saying things like he keeps meeting the wrong women. After being together for 22 years it's hard to hear him say things like that when you are used to hearing him say I love you more than you will ever know. Then to ILYBINILWY. I really hate that phrase.
H:45 M:44 D:15 D:11 M:16 T:22 BD:4/14 OW:4/14-8/14 H still refusing to try Praying every day for a miracle
Ss I completely agree that having fantasies or false expectations wouldn't be useful. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of positive vs negative thoughts. For example, when my H sends a friendly text message my first thoughts are negative. And if my thoughts are negative that is going to come through in my communication and behavior. Maybe this is not a bad thing since he deserves to be frozen out. But then again it depends on my goal.
Since I don't know my end goal it is probably wise not to burn bridges.
I have been reading about pursuer distancer dynamics. It turns out I definitely still have some reading to do that can help me. I fit many aspects of the pursuer profile, while my WAH is a distancer in many ways. For example:
Me: primarily people and feeling oriented, gives up individuality for the sake of the relationship, overly impatient, cannot delay dealing with problems, lacks restraint, impulsive, sex seen as a sign of caring for and by partner Him: avoidance, believes ignoring a problem will cause it to go away, seeks peace, avoids emotional crisis, avoids facing relationship problems, protected, closed, primarily object and logic oriented, overemphasis on thinking and logic, fears emotionality
When we were in a happy place this was not as evident in large part because he is extremely clingy. Not needy, but clingy. He doesn't need a lot of assurance but he does need to be together all the time. It is difficult to be a distancer and be close, right? But he was often emotionally distant which I took as part of his introvert personality. I took the fact that he always wanted to be around me as evidence that he really loved me. But maybe there were other things going on below the surface with the p-d dynamic.
Reading a bit about this dynamic made me realize it might be useful in the situation we now find ourselves in. When I pull away as I mostly have been lately, he seems to reach out. But if I respond too warmly he backs off again. On the other hand he also stays away if I respond too coldly. Anyone else working on repairing this dynamic, reading The Solo Partner, etc?
Reading into the pursuer distancer dynamic brought me to some info about MLC. My H is 30 so hardly midlife. However, I believe he is having a crisis. His career and lifestyle recently changed quite dramatically and I believe that precipitated a lot of what is going on now. He fits almost all of the features of someone in MLC, other than his age... -Preoccupation or fear of aging or death (don't think so) -Vanity: Obsession with appearance (yes) -Dissatisfaction with previous goals (yes) -Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped (not sure) -Impulsive Behavior (yes) -Irritability (yes) -Restlessness (not sure) -Substance abuse (yes it seems like he is drinking MUCH more, possibly some recreational drugs too)
Again, I don't think he is having a MLC, but I think some of the ways of dealing with it can be useful in my situation. Anyone else have experience with a WAS who is not midlife but going through an identity crisis?
Just thinking out loud here... wondering what to do differently in my situation, if anything.
I also read through some other's old threads and it is always enlightening to see the twists and turns and ups and downs that we all have in common. I'm not sure if the similar stories give me hope or make me feel like I'm just another person waiting in line for the awful rollercoaster.
Again, I don't think he is having a MLC, but I think some of the ways of dealing with it can be useful in my situation. Anyone else have experience with a WAS who is not midlife but going through an identity crisis?
Hi Lisa, I have absolutely no idea what's going on with my WAH, but a MLC was certainly suggested (by my DB coach) so I ended up reading up on the subject quite a bit. Like your husband, mine fits some but not all of the MLC criteria. However, he was definitely depressed, and apparently MLC is a type of depression (so who knows which one is happening, since a lot of the symptoms are the same). Alas, with both of these conditions the advice appears to be back off(while being friendly and keeping the way home smooth- so nothing different than what you are already doing), because they are the only ones that can fix themselves. I will say that my DB coach said that to a a depressed person, having an affair would be like using crack cocaine, which is why you can only sit back and wait for the high to wear off. My personal opinion is that in my case anyway, H always thought he was the type of guy who would never, ever have an affair, and now he is having to come to terms with the fact that he has broken his own moral code and is not the man he thought he was. That must be tough - occasionally I even feel some sympathy for him.
Its maddening when they are not themselves, you really want a "diagnosis" that explains what the heck is going on, but alas I don't think either one of us will get a definitive answer any time soon. My marriage was also easy going and conflict free, we used to talk with relief about how drama free our lives were compared to other people's relationships. Times have changed.....
Yeah I guess depression, affair, MLC, identity crisis... does it really matter if the results and methods for dealing with it are the same? The WAS acts like a looney and we just have to basically ignore them and focus on ourselves.
I read that one of the pursuer traits is being obsessed with the explanations for things. That sounds familiar. I have a need to understand what has happened. I should let go of trying to explain what happened and why and just accept the situation as is.
Talked with him briefly today over chat. He was friendly and seemed to suggest meeting again, this time because of mail he has for me and that other (unimportant) stuff I still have not picked up (that he borrowed for 3 months but suddenly needs to give me).
I find myself not wanting to meet up. I see that this has been a pattern however. Him suggesting we meet or asking to come by the house to get something. Me avoiding him. I'm not sure if I have been doing the right thing in avoiding him or not but again I find myself doing it.
I am also going on a business trip for nearly 3 weeks next week. He doesn't know I'm leaving. I wonder if I should see him before I leave or if it matters or...?
I feel like a lot of time will have passed when I return. I haven't seen him in 2 weeks and we've barely communicated. By the time I return from my trip we will not have seen each other in 6 weeks. That's a very big change for us. Will it be beneficial to us, to me? Will it help me heal not seeing him or having the possibility of seeing him for 3 weeks? Will it help him move on and forget me? Will it make him miss me more or less? Well, of course no one can know the future.
I lean toward not seeing him before I go. I don't know why. Am I afraid? Do I want to punish him by avoiding him? I don't even know my own emotions and reactions, how can I possibly understand his?
Well, as always, I could have written the post you made before the previous one. In fact just the other day, when I asked what would you be doing differently if you weren't DBing I was going to add that I think our Hs are going through a personal crisis. Depression/MLC - I've definitely wondered if these apply in my sitch (I think I would have substituted the yes/no to a few on your checklist though, e.g. life of accommodation left him feeling trapped - yes, preoccupation with aging - yeah, I've thought so at times). But as raliced says, putting a label on it probably doesn't change much, especially since it is a guess AT BEST.
I think you have to go with your gut as to whether or not to meet up before you go. Do what works for you. If all it takes is 3 weeks for him to "move on and forget you" then you never had a chance, right? Thinking more realistically though, I get the impression that it'll take a little more than 3 weeks to get over you ;-)
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
You guys are in a pattern that isn't working for you and it's up to you to break it.
Business trip that length sounds like a form of GAL to me. Not telling him acknowledges the reality of where you guys are in your relationship, and emphasizes that reality to him. Go, don't meet him, and rock your project. That will give you confidence and it will give him information.
Hope you're headed someplace awesome!!
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
hi Ganb8te and Maybell! Thanks for the advice and checking in!
I agree Maybell that we are in a weird pattern. You are so right. However I am wondering if I am causing some of the weirdness in the pattern, as I am always very hesitant to meet up with him and tend to avoid him when he seeks me out. I wonder if sometimes he is reaching out and I am shying away.
Today he again asked to meet. This time he did not use an excuse, he just asked to meet for lunch. While my first instinct was NO, I didn't respond and thought about it for a while. I realized that when he uses an excuse to meet like his stuff or my stuff it angers me and I think he should directly ask me to spend time together rather than be vague and use excuses. So now that he did that I guess I would be silly not to encourage it. That is what I wanted, and then when I get it I am still angry. ha. That makes me realize I am part of the problem.
However I do agree with you Maybell that he deserves a bit of space so to speak.
I think I will agree to meet later this week. I don't know why he wants to see me but most of the time I do enjoy my meetings with him. Or at least 50% of the time.
We shall see! Thanks again ladies for your support.
PS: my PMA is so good today, it seems to have flipped around from a down period the past few days.
