still holding on - 4

[u-turn]

Thanks Peter - I am often outsmarted by this validation thing too. She is too good with reading people and knowing that I am just validating. I don't think she really wants just validation. Her verbal quickness and people reading skills far outshine mine. I often have to take time to respond or add to a response which usually seem out of place when I formulate a great thought.

So it's back to realizing that this is a marathon and I need to be patient. I don't think anything went to wrong, it just still doesn't seem to be going in a direction. We finally sat and talked for a short time and I let her lead with a starting nudge from me.

This is what I got from the conv.
She knows that I have only been offering conversation about the kids and logistical items. She wants more. She wants regular everyday conversation about anything and lots of it (as long as it isn't about us).

I guess that has been the advice here too.

She wants less silence from me - that's actually a 180 for me - I have always been less talkative than I probably should have been - always. She sees this detachment as being worse - duly noted (I'll try something else). I have never liked talking about myself and especially lately, I listen to her talk about herself and work as much as she wants, but never say anything too specific about my day or what's going on with me -

I think we are running two different races, but I will run in her race for a while. Hopefully we have the same finish line in mind - I don't know.

This makes total sense to me and is acceptable to me, and I can keep that up for a very long time. (but the question is always in my mind, what is she REALLY thinking - stalling, cake eating, or really wanting to go slow - I don't know these things without asking - but can't.)(don't know status of OM and haven't asked)

Earlier in the week in an e-mail conv, when she asked me to open up and communicate, I asked her not to be afraid of being open and honest with me too, it is what I want and I am not afraid of it.

She never responded to that.

But back to me. I'm hoping to fix my communication issues that I have always had. As I still look into myself to figure out what really went wrong with all of this, my communication and my lack of confidence may be my two weak links.

[PeterV2]

Ok. It seems like she just want to talk. Oblige. Talk about stuff that's fairly neutral. No talk about A or OM or R. Talk about work. Talk about things that she's interested in. What are her interests? Hobbies? Passions? You know her. List her interests and if you're at a loss of what to talk about in relation to them, then do some research on the internet. Learn about those subjects. Then you'll be able to talk to her about something she likes talking about, and in depth - having good conversation.

His Needs Her Needs List: Men's Needs
1. Sexual Fulfilment
2. Recreational Companionship
3. An Attractive Spouse
4. Domestic Support
5. Admiration
His Needs Her Needs List: Women's Needs
1. Affection
2. Conversation <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< provide this need
3. Honesty and Openness
4. Financial Commitment
5. Family Commitment

[u-turn]

Thanks again PeterV2 - I am going to do this. I know we use to talk about everything - all the time. That comfort level has been gone for a while though and it almost seems awkward to try again with the elephant in the room. But I will. I don't really need to research what her likes used to be - I've known her for a long time.

Though her interests have changed since our problems began. Many of her new interests are in tune with OM and not me though - fitness and competitive racing and her work. It is hard for me to talk about these things without thinking of the situation and without thinking that I am fueling her thoughts of the OM - but that would be mind reading
------
I have probably been weakest on providing #2 that for her needs^^^. I do feel and I don't think that she would deny that I was strong on the other 4 needs.

Thanks again for keeping up with me. I wish you luck!!!

[dawgy]

Yeah Peter is great . Hes helped me a lot too Turn . Pete is very strong and I pray for some of his strength to keep going . Ive had a couple days of seeing " my Girl " then boom shes gone again . texting a lot , secretive evreything that drives me crazy . For two days I could see the light . Now its all gone dark again . This behavior is soooo hard to deal with . Its torturous . I would agree its difficult for you to have conversation but i find if you can control your mind and act confident when speaking to her she will be more responsive . Acting like you are not bothered by whats going on when your in conversation does really work and it puts her mind at ease that your not making her feel guilty every time you talk . Just a thought guys Dawgy

[u-turn]

Keeping this up. We are having regular conversation that friends would have I guess - when she wants.

She says she feels very neutral right now (?) and I asked her if that is good for her. She said it's like she can breathe again, not drowning.

I don't know what this means. Just seems like she wants me to be a friend.

I look at the calendar and every month and I think about the time that has been lost with her. I am better with myself, but I'm always hoping for more.

I still want to dig deeper, but will stay back.

[u-turn]

I had a great time with S17 and D14 last night. I went to the movies/dinner with them and we had some great laughs. It makes me believe that they are ok and resilient. Or I have kept everything normal enough and my PMA in front of them to cover it up.

This morning W asked about our evening, she has been pretty disconnected with me lately, I just said we had a great time.

She apologized for being distant lately.

I said "it was ok, but you want me to open up, but you are keeping me at arms length and if you are not going to talk, all I can do is try to read your mind, which I am not good at". She apologized again and said "nobody's good at that and you over analyze things". She said then, "I'm still here". an indication that she isn't giving up - we've used that phrase before.

Not as much of a conversation that I was hoping for, but I guess I should take what I can get - doesn't mean she's in or out. I try to let go of all of the signals that I "think" I'm getting.

Just more crumbs and more limbo.

On another note, she says she is actively looking at moving to another facility within the same company. This is also promising to me - not that it will end the A (if it is still going on), but it would limit their face time together.

[PeterV2]

U-turn, you are seeing some positive progress. Just learn from my mistakes and don't apply any pressure. Keep up the light conversation. Accept the crumbs and live with the limbo. If your sitch is not deteriorating then that's a positive.

That's great news that she's looking to transfer to another facility. She's working on getting away from the OM. That's a step in the right direction. Be supportive but not over the top.

Keep up the PMA and detachment. Stop mind reading and focus on yourself. Time is your friend right now. Be patient and keep up your self-improvement program. Don't pursue. She will be drawn back to you. I know it's hard - I'm struggling to stop pressuring my W - takes discipline.

You're doing well - keep it up.

(Pray for Dawgy - he needs our support right now)

[u-turn]

Thanks Peter - I've been reading here a little, but not posting much as I'm trying to calm down and focus more on other things in my life. I appreciate your (and everyone's) input always. I find myself being a little obsessed here though.

I am really looking at the patterns where I have applied too much pressure and I'm trying not to repeat this. It noticeably shuts her down and turns her away. Which in turn makes me feel bad about the pressure I put on her.

This weekend is her birthday and we are spending the day together on Saturday (she asked to do this). I am striving to show her the best me without pressure. She seems very open to that right now.

All I can do is trust that this is real until I know otherwise. Maybe she will believe in me too.

It is hard to not ask questions or know answers and move things along but I have my distance shoes on.

Thank you!!

[PeterV2]

U-turn, I know how hard it is not to ask questions or let your imagination run away with you. Just chill and smile. The more you do, the easier it gets. Things will move along in due course as the universe unfolds. Take a Zen approach. Recommended reading: Tao te Ching - English translation by Stephen Mitchell.

[Old Dog]

U-turn I think you are closest to my situation on here (that I've read anyway - I have read everyone's because I need to sleep at times :-)

2. Conversation <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< provide this need. This rings true with me also. We were sitting in the kitchen earlier and I was thinking I must say something but what? So many things are just so trivial now and the relationship is out of bounds.

Looks like I'm going to start reading some of the books she reads. The trouble is she reads much faster than I do so I'll always be behind.

PeterV2, you provide good advice. Thank you.

(Not so) Old Dog xx