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Is she still willing to change jobs? I Would draw a boundary around myself and kids. As long as she continues contact with OM, she is not allowed in the circle. No contact. She can re-enter once she cuts off contact with him by all means necessary - new job, new phone number, delete/block on Facebook, etc. She would also need to be 100% transparent with me - texts auto forwarded to my phone, email passwords shared, etc. I would not demand these things of her, just stipulate that this is what is necessary for us to continue. And if you drew a line like that, you would need to stick to it rigidly


Me 38, WAW 30
D11 (former marriage)
S2
T 8 years
M 3 years
BD 8/20/23
S 8/20/23
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Hey TLuke,
So many similarities. I just can't believe it. I have had all of the feelings, reactions, and emotions that you seem to be having.

I wish I had great advice for you, as my situation may be further along than yours. It may just take the time and patience that everyone says. I am trying to do the same.

I still have the distrust that you talk about, wondering what is going on, but I found out that detaching really does help. I still don't know what's going on, but I can make decisions with thought instead of emotions. (and I have been a lousy detacher)

Detach, don't be controlled by your emotions, and look at your situation from the outside. You can see things much more clearly if you aren't ruled by your emotions. It is taking me a long time to get to that point.

Not much help - but know there are thoughtful, strong, charismatic, and honest people that are here for you. Keep posting (read through the advice that others gave me in my thread - ours really has a lot in common). Run through your potential setbacks and mistakes here first - sometimes someone will show you a different perspective beforehand.


Me-45 W-44
S21, S18, D15
T-27, M-21
BD Jan 2014
PA revealed March 2014
In-house separation - April 2015
I filed - Aug 2015
She moved out Oct 2015
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TLuke35 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the responses. My wife actually called me crying tonight said she wants to quit cause she thinks people at her office know of the affair. She said she can't take having her name destroyed anymore. Now, i certainly would have loved to hear her say she wanted to quit for me(our marriage), but for now i guess that's a little victory. Whether she does or not though of course is as likely as the wind change with MLC.
Also, she told me she needs to hear i love her, and i wont judge her, and i will be behind her. She wants to look for a job in a different city. I had told her 1 month ago i would be willing to leave where we live if it could save our family.

I didn't tell her i love her, i did say i was behind her. But, i can't see entertaining any ideas of moving with her. My dilemma is what if she thinks i'm really coming with the kids?

If she was committed 100% i might consider. A tricky one on how to deal with this subject if i'm pushed.

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Originally Posted By: Riley
Luke,

It would help other people if you add in a signature so that each post has your info in it. Below is an example I stole from rd500 ^^

your age -
her age -
married - / together -
son -
daughter -
bomb date -


I don't have any children so the most I can say is hang in there, the emotions you feel and will feel are completely normal, and depression is part of it.

Now, having dealt with a cheater myself I would ask her to change her phone number as well and have her change jobs. I'd make her crawl on broken glass to have me again but in my case even that won't be good enough anymore.


Riley

Since NONE of ^^^^that is part of this site's approach (Divorce Busting) or its philosophy, why post it here? Did you read the books and just disagree or did you not read them, or what?

Div Busting does NOT preach revenge or punishment.

Here is a quote from my DB coach, (a true Godsend if I've ever had one),

"it's not our job to 'teach them a lesson' or 'show them the consequences of their actions', b/c LIFE DOES THAT FOR THEM.... We are their spouses, not their juries, judges & executioners."


Luke, Don't assume this^^ concept was easy for me. I'm a L and I kept saying things like "fairness" and "justice" and how 'UNJUST" and "egregiously wrong" it all was to happen to ME.

In reality, under the guise of "justice" and "showing him the consequences of HIS actions" and "letting the cards fall",

I was simply looking for an excuse to punish my h, even though in my head it seemed like a way to get him home, it was really a way to hurt him back. I was damn hurt.

I had to keep my eye on the ball and remind myself of my goal, i.e. saving the marriage if possible.

(No, not at "all costs", but yes at the cost of my wounded ego, yes I'd like to save it. At the cost of ALL my self respect NO, I would not. And sometimes that's a hard wavering line to find--the line between healthy boundaries from self respect, and the line over into vindictive or petty desires to 'teach 'em a lesson' and punish.". But I did find the line, usually, and so can you).


I see now that being nasty or punitive

1) would have pushed him farther away by "proving" what a bitter woman I had become...I'd "fuel" his anger and justifications for leaving, in essence and I did NOT want to do that. I wanted him to DOUBT his choice...

and 2) punishing or shaming him WOULD FAIL anyhow,

AND 3) I would be holding onto anger that was consuming ME, not h....ME.

I was so absorbed by my negative feelings, SO very pre-occupied, that I was not really "present' for my kids and they needed me then, more than ever! I lost weight and could not sleep and was not able to concentrate and all the stuff you are into NOW, I'm sure I did as well. So letting go of the anger was for ME, and I think that even though letting go of the pain right now seems nigh impossible, I bet you can see the positives of it, yes?

Also I started to "turn it over" to God (or a higher power or the universe or whatever term is comfortable for you). When I took showers or baths, I would say out loud (so the kids could not hear me and think I was nuts)

"God, I turn my m over to you" (OR "turn my pain/anger" over to you). I did this literally dozens of times in each "session".

Thinking of those words, saying them, hearing myself say them ALL helped those words sink in. So when h would call me, I'd be a LOT calmer. Really.

I say, do whatever works to calm yourself down, b/c losing your temper or your self control WILL be a regrettable event.


Originally it was for my children's sake that I began to let go of my anger and start the long process of forgiveness, which I did NOT tell h.

( It was not for him). Thing is, I'd never seen forgiveness growing up. But that topic is for another day...)

Here on this site, the goal is to save marriages if at all possible. IMO,

Happy Long term marriages always require some forgiveness.


If the marriage cannot be saved, the goal is to at least save ourselves. That means handling a divorce which we did not want, with honor and dignity.

You will never regret behaving with honor & dignity, especially in the face of adversity.



As for your W, shes confused and will continue to give you confusing answers, and conflicting information and sadly you will suffer these setbacks. I would say that it will seem bi-polar but my W actually is so maybe I'm biased.

The last resort is exactly that, if you feel that you have had the last straw and everything else has failed, use it.


The last resort means you have "resorted" to other approaches FIRST,

as in BEFORE the LRT, AND that you have given those approaches sufficient time to monitor for progress,

AND that you have seen them fail pretty clearly,

and THEN you begin the LRT.


Once you go there, (to LRT) it's hard to go backwards from that approach.

(No, not "impossible" - but a lot harder.)

So we don't preach going there prematurely, & we don't preach giving fake ultimatums.

You do not have to agree with me, but Do you understand what I"m saying?


The last resort is not a threat, you are effectively done and saying F it. Be careful to implement it too soon, my M may be somewhat different now if I had given my 180s another few weeks. Regrets are hard to live with so if you can go a full 48 hours without changing your mind I would say you are good to use it.


I'd lengthen that. I've been married 33 years now, and another week/month is a blip in time in the grand scheme of things. And it's well worth it.

Around here I see a lot of LBSers wanting to make decisions....too fast.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I LONGED for the limbo to end. But we had kids, and I knew not to rush. I figured the marriage was supposed to be life long so maybe I could stand to Not rush it so much, despite my pain. (The GAL lessens the pain too, btw. So it's easier to handle the limbo when you don't feel that you are in a "waiting room of life" so much as living your life AS IF and still moving forward, just not labeling or deciding your marital status THEN and there...

Do you get ^^^this?

My internal (=private) deadline for a decision on my end, was when my D16 was to graduate from HS. That meant I could Maybe give it 2 years more

UNLESS --- I simply felt I could not stay sane and go on as we were, AND OR

if our finances were just too threatened and damaged to stick around in limbo...

So if h wanted to mortgage the house for his "heroes" to use for their "investments", I'd have to act.

B/C of that exact fear, I eventually filed for a sep - (just to protect our assets. Otherwise I'd have filed for a divorce)

At the time, it made h angry at me! (Seriously!)

About 3 years ago, h casually mentioned how glad he was that "WE didn't mortgage our house for those guys" (i.e. His Alaskan heroes). OMG I almost choked....it's as if he had total amnesia! (I felt like Cathy Bates on "Misery" when she's yelling that "America has amnesia!!" It really threw me for a loop. ANYHOW...

I kid you not, h has no recall that the reason "WE" did not mortgage out house was b/c I had prevented it.

The important thing is we agree on NOW and "from this day forward". So I don't require us to recall our history the same way. ANYHOW.....back to you.

What are your GAL and 180s? How are they going?

We hammer them for one reason...they work.


Truly, no one can detach well, without GAL and without Detaching, you'll suffer a lot more.

We are all rooting for you! Keep on keeping on...

-


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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25yearsmlc, Thank you for your response.

As to the after the last resort, it seems right when i'm on the edge and can't take it anymore. A glimmer of hope appears and i think just one more moment, just one more day. I think limbo is just such a hard place to live. Waking up everyday knowing that it could end. Knowing that I can't trust the one person i had given all my trust too. But, luckily i do have a very long term view in general. Your words do help.

I think the hardest part for me is sharing my wife and not saying anything about it. In knowing that someone else makes her feel things that i can't or haven't yet. It's just hard to swallow from a self worth issue. But, i understand it's part of allowing the situation to play out. I tried the other way of demanding her to end it, ultimatums, and that led to threats of her moving out. Now, she feels space to figure her MLC and affair out still within the family for now.

As for 180's. I wont say i don't snoop still. But, it's much less, and i don't do anything with the info I get. That's why its hard. Cause i know she's lying to my face by omissions of truth, or altering truths. I do agree i shouldn't snoop, but i guess like her affair i just can't help not doing some.

As part of the 180 too we are going on dates. We never did that before much. She seems to like it. I'm trying to be more romantic, and show more affection in public which she likes, but i'm not really that type normally.

I'm also focusing on myself and trying to see her less outside of dates and family time with kids. I'm going out 2x a week by myself or with friends to places or events i want to go to. And, i am working with a career/life coach to figure out if what i'm doing is what i want to do for the rest of my life. As it pays the bills, but i do or did it for my family. Now that i realize that the life i had is over, i need to find meaningful work that is more than a job. That will sustain me emotionally, and spiritually either if the marriage gets saved or not.

I think focusing on oneself is not anything i would have thought of without DB, but because of it my wife is noticing some changes in me. I know cause she's told me. And, she seems more interested in my whereabouts with me not around sometimes at night. It seems to create some intrigue in our marriage.

M: 41, W: 38
D:8, S:5
M: 12 Yrs, T:17
DDay1: July 18 '14
DDay 2: Aug 15,14
DDay 3: Aug 27,14
and so on.

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TLuke35 Offline OP
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This past weekend a friend of my wife's confided in me that my wife has been having an affair. The friend thinks they are moving to a different level now, and felt too much guilt not telling me. Her friend says she has been sharing details with her.
Anyway, my wife has been saying she is not seeing the OM but on Friday night she actually went to his house for the first time. She told her friend she went to talk about ending it again but did just about everything else and had to stop b4 they had sex. My wife also told her that she is getting over the OM but just can't say no. She thinks maybe once he gets what he wants that he will leave her alone. And, maybe once she sees what he is like in bed she will be able to move on. But, she still doesn't want to have sex for many reason like pregnancy, and keeping one thing left that only we have.

On Friday night, my wife had called me telling me she did something that night that told her she still loves me. She said she's done a lot of bad things, but she also did good things too. I'm assuming the bad things were all the stuff she did @ his house. And the good thing is not having sex. To me it's almost like well, "I shot the guy, but only in the leg."

I went the whole weekend with this info doing my 180's. It was the hardest thing for me. But, last night we went out to dinner after her work. She sensed something was wrong, and on the way home she kept asking me to tell her. Finally, i couldn't take it anymore.
I told her that I have been trying to do things to ensure we have a chance. But, I was afraid she had gone to far in her affair. Of course, she denied talking with him or seeing him. And then, i lost it. I told her i know she was at his house, and i know they were in bed together.

My wife flipped out. Screaming at me saying it wasn't true. She doesn't even know where he lives, and didn't have sex.
She started to hit me and scream at me for awhile that it wasn't true. She did this about 5 minutes. Saying i had to believe her. She said no matter what she does i will never have trust in her, but she can live with that. I told her i'm sorry she felt that way. But, she shouldn't assume what i can or can't do concerning trust. During the screaming i got loud too. And, I lost it again saying she was a liar and then i told her to get out of the house, and I didn't want to see her anymore. She was stunned with those words.

Then she calmed down and said she thought she was turning the corner that earlier afternoon. She thought we were rekindling our marriage, by the dates we were going on and alone time. She thought we were good, and everything was fine. I told her that i have been very patient, but i'm only human. I told her i have my limits.

When we got home we talked for awhile. I felt very bad about what i had said, and apologized. I told her i shouldn't have said any of those things. I made a mistake. She told me she deserved to hear it, and maybe she needed someone to tell her it.

I think i messed up pretty big last night. But, i just can't sit back anymore pretending nothing is going on. I'm moving on with my life but eventually it just builds up like a volcano. I just wanted her to know i have limits. That she just can't do whatever and come back to me.

As of now, i don't see anyway of us working out. My plan is to keep changing my life in a positive way and give our marriage a chance by my actions. But, i don't see any other outcome but divorce now. She doesn't wan't to divorce. I am seriously considering it not too far in the future. It was just a really bad day. I think i may have just pushed her back to him.
______________
M: 41, W: 38
D:8, S:5
M: 12 Yrs, T:17
DDay1: July 18 '14
DDay 2: Aug 15,14
DDay 3: Aug 27,14
and so on.

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While you may have lost control, it sounds like you may have sent the right message. No idea, though, really.

A question for 25 (sorry to hijack but this seems relevant to you TLuke): After reading DB and this board for about a month, I detect a bit of a split in philosophies amongst the vets here about how to deal with limbo. On the one hand, there is advice like 25's above, that patience is the DB virtue above all, that one must dedicate themselves to fulfilling their role in the 180s/GAL/LL activities and let them take time to work. On the other hand, there is strong advice to lay down boundaries with a WAS in an A, to show strength, confidence, independence and pride.

I understand that the DB techniques are differently applicable to each situation, but this is an interesting area where they seem to diverge a great deal.

Luke I am in a similar spot as you. W is seeing OM. I have ceased any Qs or pressure or even acknowledging that I am aware of A. But I am and she knows it, and it continues. I am focusing on myself and finding success in my 180s/GAL. But exactly how "patient" am I to be here?


M: 33
W: 33
M: 9 T: 10
3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5
BD: 8/3/14
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1foot2,
The hard part is we are still close. We are still intimate, and are going out on dates a lot more and she likes that. But, like you it's so difficult to pretend there's nothing going on. It seems like she just has a blank check to do whatever she wants cause she knows i'm here.
One other thing i told her yesterday is that i'm not a backup plan. I want to be the one she wants, and that's how i feel.
She told me this morning , that i wasn't a backup plan.

I know my wife feels trapped. She can't choose between two people. She just doesn't want to hurt anyone and by doing that she is hurting everyone. That's why she needs me to believe she didn't go over, so she has a way back home. Because i told her a long time ago if she slept with him i would never get over it. But, eventually she has to choose or I will. Even though the 180's seem to be working(she is noticing changes in me and knows i'm trying, and she thinks we are rekindling) It's just so hard to stand by and pretend.

And the OM will not give up. He keeps going after her and after her. I know it's her choice to say no. But, as a husband i sometimes feel a meeting between us would help. I know everyone says not too. It's just he won't stop.

I suppose days like yesterday are bound to happen. I'm only human, and i just need to go back to 180.
______________
M: 41, W: 38
D:8, S:5
M: 12 Yrs, T:17
DDay1: July 18 '14
DDay 2: Aug 15,14
DDay 3: Aug 27,14
and so on.

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Yup, I too struggle with thoughts of contacting OM. Especially when I heard from my W's original AP from 2011 just last week, "I wish I had listened to you". Of course, he didnt listen to me then! He only realized his mistake later.


M: 33
W: 33
M: 9 T: 10
3 S's: 8, 6 and 1.5
BD: 8/3/14
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Just to update, this past 5-7 days have been terrific. My wife and I spent alone time Saturday night out, and for the first time since i can remember she paid complete attention to me. Normally, she had spaced out i'm sure thinking about the OM.

This was the most connected i've felt to her in a long time.
She now tells me she is no longer searching, she knows she wants to be with me and kids. She still works with the OM and she now realizes that she needs to leave her job. She said i told her months ago they couldn't work together, but she couldn't listen then. Now she sees the truth. She is now working on her resume, I actually saw her do it.

She says she no longer has romantic feelings for the OM but still needs to help him through cause he's falling apart at the breakup. He still chases after her at work i'm sure. But, she is also said she's getting afraid a little cause he won't stop. I'm conflicted on this part. I feel like he's harassing her, and would love to step in, but i know she needs to do this unless she asks me for help.

I'm feeling good on how we are together now. The intimacy we have is like never before. The connection we have together is great.

I'm also still confused on how to move forward. I'm sure she is still holding back interactions with him at work. I'm sure everyday i'm still lied to. Are they still physical @ work. Outside of work? I don't know. It feels like she's coming back , and she will be fully when she finds a new job. That said, it also feels like she just wants to sweep it under the rug.

Last week she thanked me for being patient with her and not giving up. I guess that's a complement, but could also be seen to her as an opportunity to continue what she's doing while she's at her job cause she knows i'll take her back. I did tell her i have been patient, but i'm also moving ahead with my life. And, where my patience ends i didn't even know.

So, things are better but still confusing for me.

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