WAW - One month in but looking for coping advice

[South74]

PMA and I'm already tidy and clean anyway as I work better that way even working from home - no jimmyjams here!

Lol you sure you haven't got a zebra onsie on ?

[edz]

Wife just went, it was pretty much what I expected maybe a little better

We stayed civil and light, W is completely aiming for a place of her own with S, with S there most of the time for HE and occasionally coming to me to stay when I eventually move from here (which will be next year due to money).

Normal response from me at this point that thats not what I want but I wont, cant, stop her. Her comments are still being driven by anger she's not dealt with yet, we're slowly bringing some points up she told me she knows her mother controls her (which is major progress as she has denied it for 10 years) but progress in that we are (at the moment, may still change) all going for a meal tomorrow night (W and S that is not MIL and FIL who are out of town) (and no, no expectations from me).

She picked up some bits and bobs but hasnt taken her clothes etc that are packed away in the wardrobes. She says she knows I want to work together but she doesnt want to compromise. I would have dived in there once upon a time but much as I wanted to I didnt this time. I dont feel detatched, I dont really feel anything right now. She left in what appeared to be a good mood and I stayed as PMA as I could hopefully faking it more than I felt it so got until tomorrow night to paint a better mask as I know if I push tomorrow I'll set myself back a lot.

Happy we can all go out for a meal, W started to try to lay down rules on expectations but I admit I did stop her at that point (this is a big, huge 180 in me not being the compliant one, I had a habit of just "doing what I was told") bit of a balancing act but I made it clear I wasnt expecting anything bar a nice meal with S and W (as I say balancing since she isnt my W in her head right now).

So yes, some good, some bad. S coming to stay still seems to be up in the air and him coming here at all still seems touchy although I think this is going to be a Nike situation in that Im just going to do it next time.

On the whole, dont feel great about it (why would I she still is not with me and I have a lot of detatching left to do) dont feel horrible.

As to what W thought, well only she knows that.

Right, suppose its time to make dinner.

[edz]

Lol you sure you haven't got a zebra onsie on ?

ROFL

If you knew what I look like you'd know what a horrible picture that paints

[edz]

Not a lot to report from the meal.

Picked S and W up and had a nice meal. W asked would I take S to a card collector meeting Friday evening which I'm happy to do. We were discussing some blurays I got recently and mentioned I would watch with S wife made an unhappy jokey face in that she wants to watch too.

So we chatted about S events and what he's been up to. Nice food and it was a nice evening. Took them back and then came home to the usual empty feeling. Held my pma throughout was clean tidy and dressed nicely with good cologne.

Still feeling confused though as to what W is saying (yes get the believe little idea) but on one side she's saying she wants a place just with S the next she's hinting to get all together and saying that she's not interested in or mentioning divorce which is good but leaving me very confused as to what she does want if she wants to be totally separate to me?

Anyway updating from my phone and it's bed time....

[edz]

Back at a keyboard today so just to clarify some bits from my phone posting above.

The comment on wife saying she doesnt want a D wasnt last night (as S was there) that was on Tuesday when W came round to the apartment. We sat down and were discussing me seeing S etc and she was talking about compromises, that she knows I want to try to Reconcile but she just doesnt want to compromise anymore and wants to ensure she takes her happiness into account, that she just wants to have somewhere thats her space. Not sure where that is coming from as she has always been in control of space, transport and what she does. I actively encouraged her to go if her friends invited her somewhere and she always said no she wanted to be with the family. Anyway, listened, tried the repeating to understand method and validated and she went on.

I asked her what is it she wants, is she looking for time to think or (as she'd said previously in July) ultimately to Divorce? Since the rules in England don't allow for no-fault this will be 2 years away if we didn't want to make up a reason. She said she never mentioned Divorce (she did several times shortly after walking out when she said ultimately she saw us divorcing and her being on her own) I didn't argue just asked what she's thinking right now then. She says she wants to set up somewhere with S and continue HE but doesn't want him coming to me every weekend but see's us trading him off on days when I'm not working and weekends when I have somewhere different.

I don't have an issue with no formalised days but W doesn't appear to have put a lot of thought in and is just trying to keep S 7 days a week to herself which I feel really worrying from her perspective (she seems to be giving up herself, friends, our marriage and fixating on S 24/7) again though just listened. She doesn't really know how she's going to pay for anything right now as she's still signed off with her back and the doctors have said its going to be a while longer so she's going to drop to ssp and 1/2 pay soon. Her parents continue to try to sell their flat and she's betting the farm on them giving her the money to fulfil her request.

Her parents (mother) is/are not the most reliable in these kind of things. History is often edited to change what was promised and both W (and I) are worried that this will morph into they actually meant she can stay with them in a new place.

And that's pretty much were she didn't want to talk about it any more. Back before I started DB in the first weeks funk I had mentioned getting somewhere new for all of us to move to as a new start (oh if only it were that easy, right?) obviously not pushing that now. She did bring it up though but only to knock it down again and say it would be a compromise for her.

So, in short, she doesn't want to live with me but doesn't want to Divorce me (Cake Eating?) doesn't want us apart (events and S) but wants to be on her own with S. Ok, that's clear then..

Last night got myself ready, booted and suited and picked up S and W from MIL (she and FIL are away and it shows in W as she is far more relaxed and herself) Went and had dinner in a local restaurant which was a nice meal, we had a good non R chat on politics, what S had been up to, TV and movies which brings up the other point I raised.

We were discussing what we'd been watching, Tv shows, movies and that W had picked up some films S hasn't seen and they will be catching up on at MILs on DVD. I've got the US BluRay edition of a couple of movies that turned up this week. Mentioned them and that when S is free and can come round we can watch those together. W then said she wants to watch them too. At this point I got a bit flummoxed, said she can borrow them (she'll need a bluray player though) but no she wanted to be there together. Now I'm confused so I simply said ok, well when you want to work it out give me a ring and we can discuss what you'd like to do and left it at that.

Very confused as I'm being told she doesn't want to be together, wants to live alone but wants to be part of this. I *think* this is her 24/7 must be around S more than anything to do with me but she didn't portray it as that. Anyway no expectations and I've left it with her.

S went to the bathroom at one point and she asked me can I take him to a card trading meet up happening this weekend (he collects trading cards) she's not certain on the age of the meet up and wondered could I take him. Happy to spend time with him especially sharing his hobby so said yes, she has said she will send me the details today, still waiting on those right now.

So the meal wound down, settled the bill (ouch expensive this month) and took them both back, was allowed a small kiss on her cheek which is the most contact we've had in three months and then once they were inside I came home and dropped the PMA shield a little, not quite the pit of despair last week was but still very low.

Just left very confused at the moment, I don't have an issue being "on my own" as such, I'm self sufficient and do enjoy solitude to an extent but I don't want to live this way forever and I miss my friend and companion. GAL / 180 helps (and I cant imagine the basket case I'd be without it) but even so things just feel so empty and I cant imagine carrying on indefinitely like this.

Its a (long, long) road to walk, I know that and accept it, but right now I feel like its just a circle with no end and Im utterly confused about the best way to handle some things. I cant NC with W due to S, I'm also very worried about W's relationship with S as I think its getting unhealthy with her always with him 24/7 but she wont see it any other way. Maybe her being away from MIL will be good for all involved but I cant see anyway that's going to happen unless MIL changes her attitude from the last 15 years entirely and I just cant see that happening unless its in a nuclear way and she tried to move W and S with them. Not going to torture myself too much with those thoughts though.

For those of you playing along at home you may spot that all the feedback and comments I seem to get from W are no/don't/didn't those are obviously my slant on things but it does seem she's very negative (with the exception of S of course) on almost everything. I'm just not sure how to reach her and talk at the moment as obviously anything she doesn't like the sound of just triggers me being ignored by text, email and phone.

For now, just going to concentrate on today and getting from the morning to the night, GAL swimming this evening and carrying on with the 180s and the PMA in front of W until I believe it too.

Thanks

[raliced]

She says she wants to set up somewhere with S and continue HE but doesn't want him coming to me every weekend but see's us trading him off on days when I'm not working and weekends when I have somewhere different.

I don't have an issue with no formalised days but W doesn't appear to have put a lot of thought in and is just trying to keep S 7 days a week to herself which I feel really worrying from her perspective (she seems to be giving up herself, friends, our marriage and fixating on S 24/7) again though just listened.

Hi Edz,

I have no idea of how the legality of things work in England, and I know you don't want to make things adversarial with her, but you might want to think this arrangement through more carefully. Its often said that children do better with routine, and I can tell you, in my case anyway, having a schedule where the kids know that they are going to get to see their dad on certain days, has been extremely helpful and seesm to have eased any anxiety they may be feeling about his sudden disappearance from our day to day lives. Plus your son is going through enough changes without wondering when he is going to get to see you next.

Would your wife be open to going to a counselor with just the express purose of discussing how to make this easier for your son?

[edz]

Hi Edz,

I have no idea of how the legality of things work in England, and I know you don't want to make things adversarial with her, but you might want to think this arrangement through more carefully. Its often said that children do better with routine, and I can tell you, in my case anyway, having a schedule where the kids know that they are going to get to see their dad on certain days, has been extremely helpful and seesm to have eased any anxiety they may be feeling about his sudden disappearance from our day to day lives. Plus your son is going through enough changes without wondering when he is going to get to see you next.

Would your wife be open to going to a counselor with just the express purose of discussing how to make this easier for your son?

Hi raliced, thanks for replying.

I agree, I'd rather have a routine and be involved with having S, bedtimes etc. It's made more difficult by W home educating him but not impossible but W wont have any of it at the moment. Legality is murky here, its nigh on unheard of for men to get anywhere in custody unless theres a really, really good reason but most courts prefer to have the father involved. I've mentioned councelling both together, separate and just to discuss this but have been turned down cold. W just doesnt see anything wrong with her having S from first thing in the morning through the day, teaching him and then putting him to bed all day, every day hence my concern.

She's said she doesnt have an issue with him staying over once I move but I pointed out that financially I cant do that yet (most places to let here want two months rent as a deposit which is about £2000 on top of a first month rent of £1000 (around $4,900 US) thats going to take some time to sort out. I also pointed out that I cant afford to just entertain him when I see him and need to be able to bring him back here and, finally, that I need to be part of his routine and not just fun, buddy daddy which is bound to help her as he wont just think she means work and I equal fun (although she's not presently educating as much as indulging as he's suprisingly enough - not showing interest in concentrating at the moment)

Unfortunately, right now, I cant see how to go about this short of getting social workers involved and if I do that I just know W will dig her heels in, go dark and MIL will encourage her to throw any and all legal options straight at me.

I did make a very small inroad by discussing concerns on his learning and she confirmed he has two weeks to start picking up lessons again before school is back on the agenda (not sure how this works as she is his teacher though).

I try very hard to not demonise w here and never in front of S (Im human so may sound like I do in some journals - more to vent my emotions!) so in her defence I will say I know she's putting a huge amount of effort in has organised study trips, materials, lessons and runs through material but I just dont think she's seeing the connection between our situation and this except to say when he came over (3 weeks ago) for the day he was "upset" the next week (wanting to move "home" again). I do get to see him, probably in more concentrated chunks then when they were here (as I have 180'd a lot connecting to him) but I do miss all the "small" moments of kissing his head tucking him in etc. We also (as you say) do not have a "fixed" day to see each other although its been saturday or sunday for the past 6 weeks or so.

I do worry about the impact on him (although W says there is none) and especially about how my W is acting and I of course, miss them both terribly.

In some ways I hope he returns to school, its not what he wants but I think the origanisation (whilst possibly not best for his educational progress right now) may be good for stability and structure. No way for me to push that just now though

[South74]

Edz

You could try family mediation , they try and sort out things like custody without getting the courts involved .

I'm my situation W seems happy to see D for an hour and a half on a Friday after D finishes school .
W makes no real attempt to contact S or D and I've learnt to back away and stop trying to push the kids to make contact as someone posted on my thread that they are not my relationships to get involved in .

When your W said your S got upset when he stayed at yours did she explain why ?
I wonder if it's that he wanted to stay .
Would have thought that an arrangement where he stayed over every Saturday night would help that because your S would be looking forward to each Saturday staying at yours . And not thinking it's the last time etc.

Hope it makes sense

South

[edz]

Edz

You could try family mediation , they try and sort out things like custody without getting the courts involved .

I'm my situation W seems happy to see D for an hour and a half on a Friday after D finishes school .
W makes no real attempt to contact S or D and I've learnt to back away and stop trying to push the kids to make contact as someone posted on my thread that they are not my relationships to get involved in .

When your W said your S got upset when he stayed at yours did she explain why ?
I wonder if it's that he wanted to stay .
Would have thought that an arrangement where he stayed over every Saturday night would help that because your S would be looking forward to each Saturday staying at yours . And not thinking it's the last time etc.

Hope it makes sense

South

Hi South

Yup offered this to W, she is not interested in her head theres no problem and I cant do very much to change things unless I nuke any chance at getting back together, not there yet. W has never really been able to explain what she meant. As far as I got was that he may say he was ok on coming around and then going back to MIL (wife says "home") he then acts up over the next few days, guessing simply that (A) he doesnt want to be at MIL and (B) he's grown up with my level of tech in the house (media server, tv hooked to media pcs, music on tap, pc's etc - although nothing more than a radio / cd in his room) wheras MIL is prehistoric and rather backward in her opinions on tech and access to it - he's also a screen addict for minecraft which W now has on a laptop - and generally anything tech based.

W also changes story based on whats being discussed on S, when he complains to me about MIL being mean or not getting something W says he's being manipulative and a "dramaqueen" (hopefully that doesnt offend anyone here -not meant to be offensive) and I agree he's done that before and often "convinces" friends to play his way, he's often played us off against each other as well - but when he acts up in relation to me, then thats different and so she closes down my options.

For now I just say YES to anything connected to him and show my relation with him as my #1 180 in the hope it reassures her and opens things up but I'll have to see. I'm seeing him every week at least want more but Im also keeping an eye on my main goal to try to get us all together.

If it comes to it I'll push for more time on a legal basis but thats going to have serious repercusions so holding off.

Sorry to hear your sitch South, I seem to have the opposite that W wants to spend all her time with S to the exclusion of all else including me

[edz]

Oh on the subject of overnight staying, W is NOT opposed to S doing it and has said so many times in her defense - BUT - but she's really adamant she wants to wait until I move from the apartment we lived in together. Unfortunately I cant really do much about that right now which I've raised with her (as you can see above).