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Hi everyone, Wow, some really interesting stuff over on my last thread over the last couple days!!

Today I found out that things at the company where I've been trying to really get things going are worse than I thought. Seems that the guy in charge of the money hasn't been up front about where all the funds have been going. He has been in France for the last 2 weeks and on Friday the internet died. Thing is that means EVERYTHING dies as we are on internet phone lines so we couldn't even call our clients or leads. Found this out just as I was about to make enough to get me through a couple more months but now, I'm dead in the water! As of today I'm waiting to hear back from the president (I'm Sr. VP) about if the internet is back or not. Nothing yet but he is going to call me tomorrow morning and let me know if things have been worked out.

So, today I applied for a couple new "jobs", back to working for someone else I guess. Too bad, a little more time and I really think things would have worked. I spent time polishing up my resume (I have been, just hadn't sent it out yet) and sending to a couple places in my field. Hopefully things will move along swiftly as I had really counted on this last couple sales and am broke and late on my car payments. I also missed a call from my lawyer and I'm not sure what that is about but probably not good (it seldom is). No one to blame but myself for not being more proactive and leaving this place sooner. Of course, it wouldn't be a problem if my W was still here like I was for her when she was trying to try a new job but, again, that isn't her fault, it's mine for not realizing that without her income, I wouldn't be able to make this start up work and walking away. I just didn't want the last year to go to waste as I worked so hard on getting the business up and running. And yes, Wonka, you warned me! I did network some after you suggested it but didn't find anyone who is looking to hire at the moment.

I may have to ask my parents for more money which is really hard for me at my age! I had to go to them to pay for my lawyer as my W left me with NO money when she filed. She, of course said I didn't "need" a lawyer as her lawyer could do "everything" and would be fair to me even though he works for her. When I told my dad this he offered to pay and I didn't need to ask but still my parents don't have much money and I hate to ask!

Still trying to digest everything that was posted over the last few days as I didn't have time today due to all that is going on. Thanks for listening everyone and I hope all is well with everyone!

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Hey Matt,

I am sorry finance dude was less than optimal... BUT, good for you to see this reality now and not keep hanging on and moving forward, I have done that a couple times too many when I was a principle or the owner...

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I just didn't want the last year to go to waste as I worked so hard on getting the business up and running.


I SO get this, it one of my personality traits as well. What is interesting is that "time not wanting to go to waste" ... kinda like a 24 year R and M.... ?

wink

Last edited by TSquared2; 09/30/14 04:00 AM.

In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm

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Matt, great on getting those resumes out ASAP. I know your not really interested in working for some one else right now, but until you get back solid on your feet, may be the best thing to do.

Hang in there,...this too shall pass


Me 43 ring off Oct 2014 (my ring back on Feb 2015)
H 51 (ring off 7/2013)
M 2007 T 1996
S 14
July 2013- H told me he was unhappy.....said he is staying for Son
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Thanks T2 and 2B,
I tried to post earlier but it disappeared when the site went down. I wonder when they will finish the "work" on the forum.

T2, I have always been very "loyal" when it comes to the people and places I have worked. I just can't understand the way people move from place to place and "loyalty" isn't seen as important nowadays. Of course it hasn't always been in my best interest in the end. This time I really wanted it to work not only because of myself but because of the others who joined when I did. I'm guessing that this is another opportunity to learn from my sitch. And yes, losing M and R of 26 years does seem like a great waste, doesn't it?

Thanks and I agree that it is probably best for now. I have to remember that there will be other opportunities. The worst part for me will be the lack of freedom that I will have to be there for my D14 if I start working for others. Funny, just when, after so many years of worrying more about making enough to keep the family going, my kids are now more important to me than my success in business. At the same time my W has gone the other way, wanting to be successful in her work being more important than her family. Probably a natural thing as the kids grow older and don't "need" her as much (or so it seems). Too bad, if we could have worked through this it could have worked out and we both could have gotten what we wanted. MLC is such an awful thing for those going through it and all those having to deal with the fall out.

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Matt

I tried to post this yesterday but the boards were down…… these are a few things from your last post over at your old thread.

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For her to tell me to my face that she was fine with what we agreed to and then when it came down to actually doing it, (and after she had already claimed all that she wanted), she, once again, "changed her mind", was, in my mind, another huge betrayal.

Get used to “betrayal”…it may happen for a long time. That said, what is most important is to learn that HER ACTIONS should not DRIVE how or what you do.

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I can no longer afford to see my W and feel compassion for her because that has only served to allow her to take advantage of me up to this point.

You should realize that this ^^^^ is a CHOICE that YOU are making. I know it may not seem like it right NOW…You could though have compassion and NOT allow her to take advantage of you. All it takes….is a choice.

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Besides her actions have shown she has no compassion for me and how her actions have affected my life, nor does she even seem to appreciate it when I do.

F*ck HER ACTIONS – you have no control over them. What you do have is control over YOUR actions. She is NOT going to appreciate anything you do…at least not for a very long time. The question here though….is are YOU doing with an EXPECTATION that she will do something nice in return? If so, then IMO, you are setting yourself up for disaster.

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My life won't be my own until the D is final.

IF you feel this way then it will be…..if you CHOOSE to feel differently…it will be different. IMO, you are already divorced. What you are doing right now is going through the legal process. Your emotional divorce occurred a long time ago.

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I really do get that there is no other outcome possible at this point. I don't have any hope that there will ever be anything close to "reconciliation".

Loss of hope is the biggest motivator in divorces. I am not saying that you are wrong in feeling how you do, nor am I suggesting that you will or will not reconcile. I guess my point is maybe…you should change what you are hoping for. Maybe, it is time for you to hope for a happy life for YOU – whatever way that looks.

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Besides, it was never really about me or our M. It's always been about her and how she feels about herself and her life. I really see that she is searching for what she feels is "missing" in her life more than trying to escape me. Sure, she is running from me but it's not the only thing she is running from. She is running from herself and her "old" life, I was just the biggest part of that life.

As hard as it is…..take comfort in knowing that YOU did not cause this. It was bound to happen. YOUR W was bound to have her crisis. So be gentle on yourself at the same token try and have some compassion that she is really messed up right now. FTR, I know how hard that is when she is trying to carve up your testicles and serve them to you with dinner. J

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I really miss my family being together

(((hugs))) dude. I know how much it hurts. What helped for me was trying to focus on my “new” family structure and focusing on making “new memories”. Keep your focus on you and the kids. Ignore your w.

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For now it's a lot harder due to the timing of my W's crisis but it won't always be that way.

Hard does not equal impossible – remember that. Also, consider…….do ever really appreciate things when they are easy? Hmmmm….if you are like me – no. I appreciate things a lot more when I have had to bust my butt to achieve them.

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I agree that my W is going to be in for a really bad time when (if) her father does end up dying. I also don't see any way I can either make that better or worse for her. I don't see any way anything I may say or do will have the slightest affect on her.

It is not YOUR job to make things better for her. She is an adult (okay probably a child in an adult body) and has to figure this out herself. Stop for a second….do you think HEALTHY R’s are R’s where one of the other partners always figures it out? Do you think always fixing things for her is in HER best interest? How is she suppose to figure it out?

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She has totally disassociated herself from me and only see's me as someone that is supposed to help pay for the things that our D's need.

She has to. Right now chances are that YOU represent everything that is wrong in her life. Consider a teenager if you will. Notice how they blame YOU for the choice and mistakes THEY make. It really is no different.

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She doesn't seem to have any respect for me, any appreciation for anything I may do that helps her out. Like this weekend when I offered to keep D14 until Monday so she didn't need to rush home from visiting her father out of town. I still do these things but not because of any other reason than it's the right thing to do.

First she is not gonna respect you if YOU do not respect yourself. Second….I think and I could be wrong…that you are still doing “these things” in the hopes that she will see it and change. Stop it. Do what it is that YOU want to do. Wanna to spend more time with D, then do it and expect NOTHING from her. It is after all your D14.

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Yes, I hate what she has done. I hate that she totally just gave up after so many years without even trying ( I understand she may feel that she did "try", I just don't see it).

Lemme ask you a question……. Why don’t you “see it”? Is that conclusion because you did not get what YOU wanted?

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I hate that because of her doing this my life must now totally change from what I planned it to be for so very long. I hate that I have to do things that I don't want to do, give up things I don't want to give up. More than anything I hate that she has taken away my best friend in the world and the one person I trusted more than any other.

I know the feeling…..HATE though is so closely related to LOVE. You can only HATE what you are ATTACHED TO. Once you really DETACH….your hate will turn to indifference.

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Some days are so much harder than others, usually because I'm reacting to something my W has said or done that shows just how much she has changed from the person I loved so much.

OR because you really have not detached enough.


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So, today I applied for a couple new "jobs", back to working for someone else I guess.

Sorry about the job sitch dude. Good luck finding something else. Stay positive. A lot of times, one door closes and a better door opens.


"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter".
"Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!"
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Hey eric,
OK, a lot here......
Yeah, I may not be totally used to it but I get that the "betrayal" thing is likely to keep happening. As far as feeling compassion, it's hard, as when I do I find it hard to do what I think is best for me. It's hard doing something that someone you are feeling compassionate towards will fight you on and already made clear that they will not want to do. Not impossible but up until now I've let my compassion get in the way of what is best for me. That's why I made a choice to try and turn off the empathy at least when dealing with the D. It doesn't mean I don't have compassion towards other things that may be going on with her.

I really have dropped the expectations. Even though I don't expect anything in return, it still shows me how far my W is from being able to have any kind of decent R even if just for our D's that she is still unable to even acknowledge something I do that she would be grateful for from anyone else. No expectations but also the lack of anything tells a story as well.

I really held on to hope for as long as I could. I just don't think hope is justified, not because of my thoughts or feelings but because of my W's actions and words. Besides holding out hope leads to things like expectations. If you have no hope, you can't have any expectations either.

The part about when her father dies was in answer to a question (I think it was Wonka, maybe job?) about her having a really hard time when he dies and if I would be able to be there for her or not. I actually agree with you that not only can't I have any positive or negative effect, it's no longer my place. If things were different and we were still (really) married, I would be there for her as a sounding board, a steady hand, etc. All the things that H/W's do for each other during times of grief and pain. I just don't think she will want that from me and even if she did, I don't think she would allow it. She is the kind of person who will stubbornly refuse to allow herself to change her mind once she has made it up. Sure, she changed her mind about her M but now that she did, she will fight anything that may make it seem like that choice was wrong. Especially after ignoring her mother, her relatives, her friends telling her that she needed to slow down and at least give it a chance. She would lose face and that is something she will never allow to happen.

Again, anything I do that may help her out I do only because it's the right thing to do and I would do for a close friend. I expect nothing in return. It just is telling that even if I don't expect anything in return, the fact is that she can't even seem to appreciate it. Shows just how bad things still are in her mind, nothing more.

I know my W didn't try. In fact, she made herself NOT try. Not because I didn't get what I wanted at all. If she had tried at all and it still failed, I would feel differently about the whole sitch. Her first sentence on B-day was "I want a D and I have no intention of even trying to fix things between us". She refused to do MC, she refused to do any number of things that might of made a difference (this was before I knew anything about MLC so I thought that the usual things had a chance to work). She even admits that she didn't try. She has said that why bother when the problem is she just that she no longer feels the "right kind" of love for me? She said she either feels it or not and she doesn't, end of story. Oh, she said she feels "love" for me but "There are many kinds of love...". Believe me, I don't need to get things "my way" or nothing. I'm sure there is always a middle ground. Our M just wasn't important to my W anymore. At least not as important as her having a chance at having a great R with her father before he dies. Again, she actually said this, not mind reading. I think that (and this is just speculation) for a long time she was feeling like she wasn't "happy". She wanted "more" of something. I couldn't "make" her happy even though I did try. She started to drift away from our M and our F and looked to her job and her "friends" for what was missing. She enjoyed being away on business and taking care of only herself (again, she told me this) and didn't "miss" me when she was gone. To her that meant she didn't "love" me because if she did she would miss me (yes, she said this). At the same time, she also knew that D wasn't something you just did. She had told herself she would never get D without trying everything she could to make the M right. So, when she made up her mind to say to me "I want a D" that was it. She had to build a wall around her and not wavier. (She often talked about that wall. Saying that what I was saying made sense but it was too late since she put up this wall between us and can't let me back in).

Yes, I still need work on detaching for sure. I'm getting there on expectations. One step at a time. Right now I really need to think about me and what I'm going to do with my life and getting a new job. Trying to stay positive! Thanks eric, you really make many great points.

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Hello everyone,
So, today I got word that the office is back up and running. It came too late for me to go in the office (i work 1.5 hours away) but at least I know it will be back up in the AM tomorrow. I am going to keep actively looking for a new position and at the same time try and get some money from this job. I can't live like this any more, not knowing what will happen next. I hate it. I will say I can see how since my W over the years never wanted to know what was going on with the finances, she could have felt out of "control" when it came to money. Since I was in sales, I never had a "steady" income. When I got paid it was a large sum but sometimes it was a long wait between pay checks and we would need to be careful. I'm not saying it was all my fault as my W could have taken a more active role in our finances but I also could have kept her more aware myself. I also think after her depression, I tried to "shield" her from the hard times and that was a mistake on my part. See, I am learning more about my part in all this mess!

Right now I must think only about how I can make my life better and right now that means income. It will give me a chance to stop thinking about my M or D (although I do need to see my lawyer Monday and it probably won't be good news from the sound of his voice when we spoke) but I can't let that trump doing what I need to make my life work.

So, I'll be looking for more places to send my resume today and try and stop worrying. So far God has provided when I needed it most as long as I did my part. Time to do my part in spades!

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Matt

Quote:
As far as feeling compassion, it's hard, as when I do I find it hard to do what I think is best for me. It's hard doing something that someone you are feeling compassionate towards will fight you on and already made clear that they will not want to do. Not impossible but up until now I've let my compassion get in the way of what is best for me. That's why I made a choice to try and turn off the empathy at least when dealing with the D. It doesn't mean I don't have compassion towards other things that may be going on with her.

As you mentioned hard is not impossible. I totally understand why you feel the way you do. It’s like you try and pet a dog who is wagging his tail at you, you give him a treat, he keeps wagging his tail and then as you go to pet him – he bites. I get it. What works for me was REALIZING and ACCEPTING that even though I was not “legally” divorced I actually was divorced. At least divorced emotionally. So I approached the legal divorce as a business transaction. So as long as you are not allowing the anger to drive what you do in the legal divorce process…you will be okay.

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Even though I don't expect anything in return, it still shows me how far my W is from being able to have any kind of decent R even if just for our D's that she is still unable to even acknowledge something I do that she would be grateful for from anyone else. No expectations but also the lack of anything tells a story as well.

Far may be an understatement. She may NEVER be able to have a civil and decent R with you. I hope she will but no one knows expect her. Believe it or not…this is one of the biggest lessons I think we need to learn. That we, our love, our actions……can never really control another. Your W, right, wrong or indifferent can be who ever it is she wants to be. Just like you. So you can choose to be honorable, honest, fair, firm, even if she is not – cause the only person that controls you is you. Another lesson here is …is trying to figure out who you really want to be – when faced with someone who is crazy. Do you want to be the type of person that respond in the same way they do to you OR do you want to respond in a manner that is consistent with who YOU want to be. The third lesson is “accountability and ownership” – yep. YOU own HOW your respond. A lot of times we give ourselves excuses. For example – my ex may do something that really pisses me off. I COULD (but choose not to) call her up and scream and insult her because I was angry. Ya see…we can use someone else’s actions to tell ourselves that we are justified in how we respond. IMO, we own how we respond and therefore we can choose to respond differently.

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I really held on to hope for as long as I could. I just don't think hope is justified, not because of my thoughts or feelings but because of my W's actions and words. Besides holding out hope leads to things like expectations. If you have no hope, you can't have any expectations either.

1) No hope IMO equals no life. Hope exist just because it does. It should not be based on anything that you see or expect.
2) I personally believe that maybe it was fear that had you holding on as long as you did. I am not sure it was hope. Then again, I am not you so I may be wrong.
3) You have looked at your W actions as an indication of who she is, which is understandable. Have you ever considered separating her actions from who she is? Do you think that SHE your W is BAD or is it her actions that really suck?

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She is the kind of person who will stubbornly refuse to allow herself to change her mind once she has made it up.

Another reason for compassion. Imagine how messed up it is to go through life unable to change due to stubbornness? Kinda sad if ya ask me. Compassion FTR, does not mean that you open your wallet and hand everything over. For example…I have a lot of compassion for my ex. I do not like her actions. I try as much as possible not to speak with her. I do not want her in my life. Yet…I can still be compassionate towards her……compassion with a distance. Living this way has allow my heart to heal and not hold on to the anger.

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Sure, she changed her mind about her M but now that she did, she will fight anything that may make it seem like that choice was wrong. Especially after ignoring her mother, her relatives, her friends telling her that she needed to slow down and at least give it a chance. She would lose face and that is something she will never allow to happen.

See that up there ^^^^ that is “attachment”. You have not truly detached yet. Until you do…you will remain angry. Why? Cause you keep looking at her vs looking at you and living YOUR life.


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I know my W didn't try. In fact, she made herself NOT try. Not because I didn't get what I wanted at all. If she had tried at all and it still failed, I would feel differently about the whole sitch. Her first sentence on B-day was "I want a D and I have no intention of even trying to fix things between us". She refused to do MC, she refused to do any number of things that might of made a difference (this was before I knew anything about MLC so I thought that the usual things had a chance to work). She even admits that she didn't try. She has said that why bother when the problem is she just that she no longer feels the "right kind" of love for me?

Allow me to show you something…….

Can you please email me tomorrow’s winning lottery numbers for the Texas state drawing.

Okay…your probably like WTF…..

Can you tell me what your W is thinking right now?

Can you tell me what the CT Powerball winning numbers are for tomorrow?

My point.

You THINK you know what you wife is feeling and thinks. Yes yes she said this and said that. Is your wife in MLC? Well then….believe none of what they say and half of what they do. What I think is that you FEEL like she did not try as hard as you did.

Here is another lesson…… Can Matt make choices for himself? Yes. Can Mrs Matt make choices for herself? Yes. Do the two choices have to be the same? No. They can be different choices Matt. It is everyone God given right. The power of Choice.

Also, although your W said she would not try….she may feel like she already did Matt. She may feel like she did everything she could have done. So she gave up. Once again her choice.

Did it suck for you…for the kids… YEP. Does it always have to suck? NOPE.


Learning that everyone has a free will to make the choices that they feel they need to make is a HARD lesson to grasp.


Letting go with Love Matt…..is hard.


You do not have to agree with her choices.

You do not have to bend over and hand her everything.

You do not have to keep trying this or that to fix this.

You do not have to like her Matt.

You do not have to respect her or her choices Matt.

The only thing you need to do is figure out who you want Matt to be.

He could be angry, he could be a victim, he could be a martyr, he could be a LBS forever, he could be a divorcee, he could be a greedy pita OR

He could be someone that acts with integrity, with honor, could be someone that finally accepts that the only person he can control is himself. Could be a man that stands in the face of adversity and continues to live his life based on his moral and his principals while RESPECTING others – even when he himself does not agree with them. He can be happy and filled with love and compassion.


At the end of the day Matt – YOU choose to stand for your M. YOU choose to give it all you have. Now maybe it is time for you to stand up and become all that you want to be.

Then again….what do I know…these are just words on a screen….or are they?

God Bless,
Eric


"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter".
"Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!"
"Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
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Awesome post, Eric.


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H moved out July '13
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D March '15
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Really good post Eric. Matt, I know how painful and hard this is for you, I am so sorry you have to go through this. Your wife does not define you and who you are. Don't give her that power. You can't control her or her actions. At the end of the day, look in the mirror and like who you see. Be proud. It takes a really good man to stand the way you have.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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