Wife having emotional affair part 3

[3kids]

Ok 25years some Gals. I recently started hunting again. Haven't done this since I was a kid. Took the oldest out trap shooting the other weekend. While D9 and S5 shot with the BB gun at targets. This weekend going pheasant hunting with the oldest. Really really looking forward to it. Next month going deer hunting with the oldest for the first time in my life. He really loves hunting and I want that bond with him. Plus the S9 seems to really like it also so maybe we can do it as they grow up. Really looking into learning Spanish. Would love to do it by audio books or iphone if possible. Have thought about trying to play. This guitar the wife bought me a couple of years ago, at my request. But OM plays guitar and I just feel if she found out I was playing it. She would think I was doing it to be like OM. So not sure if I want to start that up just yet.

Trying to look at my career right now. Don't know if I like it. My company has just taken away all the 401k options. To cover the new health care act costs. Which sounds more and more not promising. Going to be hard to cover health care cost and everything else by my self. With no help from the wife. As far as income goes. So either a big raise to cover all the expenses or find a new career. Bowling part time to get out of the house and meet new people.

180's I struggle with. Still working on anger. Even tonight had a blast of it. Oldest is a teen man and must of had a hard day. His sister was picking on him and he let the fury out on her with a very hard punch to the shoulder. Hitting in my house does not work and not on girls to the extreme. So I screamed and grabbed by the back of the neck and brought him to his room at 8 and to bed he went. Anger is hard to control sometimes! With the wife I'm trying to be less available not reply as fast or at all. But when we do talk it's PMA the heck out of her. Seems to be working a little she's trying to call more and ask more questions. Listening to new music or what I use to like in music. Signed up for Amz. Prime and you get free music that way. Keeping a spotless house. Trying new meals. Trying to give each kid some time with just dad alone time. Daughter is tough for me because she needs a lot more time than the boys. And needs to be girl time. Boys are easy. Not watch as much tv but some days that just clears my head to watch a movie or two. Creating a bucket list.

I think you mentioned it a while ago, how a wife treats her affair shows something. Just wondering like stuff like this. When we are at school functions she wears nothing that OM has bought her like new coats and fancy stuff. Just older cloths and coats from before him. When they do stuff with the kids it's never any where close to our home town. Like the kids said they went bowling on Sunday but drove over an hour away to do it(only for it to be closed). There is ten bowling alleys in just the five town stretch. She has still yet to have him meet any of her family except for her mom. I'm not trying to mind read but there has to be something to this all. It's as if she doesn't want her peers to know about him.

Gosh I feel bad about yelling at my oldest. But he needed to get some of it just not all of it.

If you have any suggestion on 180's or Gals let me know. Thanks as always!

[25yearsmlc]

What a great line and I apologize if it seems I'm mocking you.

I don't mean to! But this is such a great teaching point I don't want to waste it, okay?

When you get advice for YOU, and deflect it to them, it's as if you (and WE did it too so you are not alone), are saying "But what about THEM???"

Like kids do and it's so easy to do but it's so Unhelpful...
See it here...

You wrote:


[quote=3kids][b]Here is a good question. You said don't play games, but I think the wife is. [/b]


So, um, do you want me to track HER down and tell her to stop it?

Or take her behind the wood shed & straighten her out??? OH but wait, oh wow, She's NOT HERE so... as you can see.....

HER actions are not our concern....She does not know about DBing and she is NOT trying to save her marriage; you are.

So, let's get back to you and only you, okay?

(Just thought I'd point it out to you because MANY others are doing it too, and so did I!!)

But it's sometimes very useful to SEE IT in writing -- and realize what WE are doing that isn't helping our cause. We are comparing and competing and they are not. It's self inflicted and we are doing it to ourselves.

Enough said, I'll drop it now. But Do you get my point?

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

I will post about your 180s tomorrow. I'm glad to see some!!

[PatientMan]

Alone time with each kid is great for many reasons! I've been dating my daughters individually for years now, and it's truly invaluable.

I'm glad to see you self-analyzing. That's good.

Remember your short list - have them memorized. These should be ingrained in your brain now (or very soon):

• Be an honorable man.
• Be a man only a fool would leave.
• Be yourself - Figure out who YOU want to be. Diligently work on becoming that person and don't let anyONE or anyTHING get in your way.
• Keep the road paved home smooth.
• Set and enforce boundaries for your own good.
• Read sandi's rules every day.
• LEAD your family - make sure it is as healthy and intact as possible. She is welcome to join you if she wants.
• Focus on creating the best life possible for you and your children.
• Accept your W for who she is right now instead of wishing she is who she used to be or trying to make her into someone she is not.

You're doing great! Keep working!

I don't mean to get all list-happy, but here's one from my wallet:

• Be you. Be who God calls you to be.
• Be a leader. Be bold. Be honorable.
• Faith. Patience. Perseverance.
• Quiet confidence. Strength.
• Be a man only a fool would leave.
• Keep the road paved home smooth.
• A man is not finished when he is defeated, he is finished when he quits.
• It is never the wrong time to do the right thing.
• The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

-PM

[25yearsmlc]

Ok 25years some Gals. I recently started hunting again. Haven't done this since I was a kid.

You're talking to a female hunter, so I applaud this!!

**(Folks, Unless you are a vegan, plea don't judge hunters who eat the meat, okay? And even if you are vegan, don't hassle him about hunting, At least not here...Thank you, thank you very much... )

Hunting can be great to get outdoors, to move early in the am, learn the ways of wildlife and see nature and it helps you get in shape and bond with any fellow hunters...also for OUR family, (h and me and our kids), retrieving the meat for your family (a year's supply in some cases) with your own 2 hands and preparing it, feels empowering. IF the sh1t hit the fan in the world, WE would survive. (Well, for awhile).

Good for you!

Took the oldest out trap shooting the other weekend. While D9 and S5 shot with the BB gun at targets. This weekend going pheasant hunting with the oldest. Really really looking forward to it. Next month going deer hunting with the oldest for the first time in my life. He really loves hunting and I want that bond with him. Plus the S9 seems to really like it also so maybe we can do it as they grow up.

well that^^ is a LOT of hunting. You might not need to buy meat for a long time. We didn't buy beef OR fish of any kind, for 2 years when we lived in Alaska. (We had Halibut and salmon we had caught ourselves for that source, fyi. Plus moose, caribou and bear meat---tastes like pork -- IF the bear has been eating berries...taste like poop if its been eating fish/garbage.)




Really looking into learning Spanish. Would love to do it by audio books or iphone if possible.

I'm glad b/c it's so useful. (My parents are French, which we all had to take. And that's not as useful here out west...oh well, maybe if I go to the UN...)

Thing about iPhone language "courses" is that they are intended to be refreshers, not to TEACH you a new language, let alone any grammar that would stick.

I do it with French, so I'm familiar with that app and it's wonderful. But it's no way to learn a totally new language.
With audio books (And the iPhone "class") You won't meet OR interact with any people. YOU need to do that.

(Note - there are some free or cheap language classes in Adult ed, one to 2 nights OR a Saturday morning, per week.)

I believe that

GAL requires that we (meaning YOU in particular) need to do interact AND MEET NEW people...

3 Kids, if my instincts are right, I think you retreat too much from "life", and you don't want to get out of your comfort zone nearly enough.

FIGHT & OVERCOME THE FEAR & INERTIA ----and then GAL for real---b/c Fear & Inertia are part of why you are here.



Have thought about trying to play. This guitar the wife bought me a couple of years ago, at my request. But OM plays guitar and I just feel if she found out I was playing it. She would think I was doing it to be like OM. So not sure if I want to start that up just yet.

Fair enough conflict in this^^ choice EXCEPT W should not even know about it so her opinion won't be on your radar. Remember that GAL is NOT FOR HER to notice...it is for you to protect YOU, to grow YOU, to improve YOU and to increase the joy and fun in YOUR life..none of which she needs to know.

but note the "zero others" factor. Did you notice that before I did? OR is this the way you approach things, cautiously and without anyone else?

I'm not knocking you, but I'm curious and hopeful that You will begin to spot "customs" holding you back from an authentic life as a participant and NOT as a spectator. Make sense?

Trying to look at my career right now. Don't know if I like it. My company has just taken away all the 401k options. To cover the new health care act costs.

Wow, that is a zinger. Time to find a solution there...yikes. (No answers from me on that, yet...Sorry but I'll put my thinking cap on)

Which sounds more and more not promising. Going to be hard to cover health care cost and everything else by my self. With no help from the wife. As far as income goes. So either a big raise to cover all the expenses or find a new career.

That's a clarifying nudge toward a career change, isn't it? Maybe it's useful?

Bowling part time to get out of the house and meet new people.

YAY! Especially for the meeting new people...(Just don't pull a "25" and throw your back out, and you should have a ball..).--get it?? "Ball"??

180's I struggle with. Still working on anger.

Can you list some of those 180s a bit more specifically? And MAYBE (not sure, but am throwing this out) instead of saying "don't be angry" as your 180, you can cite a specific behavior to do, OR not to do.
EXAMPLES:

"I won't raise my voice when 'discussing' chores with son",
or "Will not curse if I throw a gutter ball", and so on.

I think it is easier to notice and measure and identify and CHANGE, specific behaviors, rather than "traits" of ours.

Make sense?


Even tonight had a blast of it. Oldest is a teen man and must of had a hard day. His sister was picking on him and he let the fury out on her with a very hard punch to the shoulder. Hitting in my house does not work and not on girls to the extreme.


unless he's an underdeveloped shrimp for his age, a "boy" over about 14 y/o -- is too big and too old to hit anyone, let alone a smaller person OR a sister...just not acceptable. He'll learn that in THE hardest of ways, if you don't get through to him on this, asap. Dang... sorry you had to deal with that.

SO NOT COOL of your son to do that. I'd be upset too.

So I screamed and grabbed by the back of the neck and brought him to his room at 8 and to bed he went. Anger is hard to control sometimes!

Oh yeah, it's very tough to punish someone for their anger, while we are expressing our own. I get that.

IT's not easy. Hence the sayings that "being a parent is the hardest (and best/most challenging/most creative/deepest/most frightening/most fun/most demanding)--- job in the world".

With the wife I'm trying to be less available not reply as fast or at all. But when we do talk it's PMA the heck out of her.

Good!

Remember that you are "Busy meeting interesting new people, going to exciting new places and doing fun new things!" That's the mantra (or better yet- that is your Phone greeting for when she calls!!) "So leave a message!"


Seems to be working a little she's trying to call more and ask more questions.

sounds as if it IS working. Do more of it...and monitor for results when can

Listening to new music or what I use to like in music. Signed up for Amz. Prime and you get free music that way. Keeping a spotless house. Trying new meals. Trying to give each kid some time with just dad alone time.

^^^ very nice. Truly. They'll notice it more than you realize. When h went back to hthe "tundra" the day after Christmas, I took the kids to a ski place 2 hours away, for 3 days. We had a blast at a reasonable price. Super fun.

It was the First time we had gone, and NO h in sight, and no reminders. Really had a FUN time. Hot tub, DVDs at night, with pizza or whatever dinner food THE Kids wanted, and we laughed and we RELAXED...

The very next year, our youngest said "We're going skiing, right? We ALWAYS go skiing after Christmas"....so "New traditions" can happen pretty fast when the kids like them.



Daughter is tough for me because she needs a lot more time than the boys. And needs to be girl time. Boys are easy. Not watch as much tv but some days that just clears my head to watch a movie or two. Creating a bucket list.


ASK your daughter what SHE'D like to do. AND OR watch some "chick flicks" (Not all of them will make you cringe) and probe for HER reaction to them, and see about probing the positives (not the sad movies so much but at times, sure, ask her about her "darker" feelings if you are comfortable doing that.)

MAYBE if you and your w have a good chat sometime, IF you don't think your d would mind, you could ask your wife what SHE Thinks Daughter would enjoy...tell w what you've already done, or tried or wanted to try.

But word it in a PMA way you know? Like you are excited about getting to know your d better and you are connecting with her like never before...even if it is too late, this is still going to help YOU in Your new life...got it? Cool...


I think you mentioned it a while ago, how a wife treats her affair shows something. Just wondering like stuff like this. When we are at school functions she wears nothing that OM has bought her like new coats and fancy stuff. Just older cloths and coats from before him. When they do stuff with the kids it's never any where close to our home town. Like the kids said they went bowling on Sunday but drove over an hour away to do it(only for it to be closed). There is ten bowling alleys in just the five town stretch.

Sounds as if Your wife does not want to be seen with OM. Though some will harp on how deceitful that is, I'm GLAD she's not proudly tooling around with him and resolutely announcing her desire for a "Real marriage NOW", with OM.

Things are far from great between you two, but thankfully, she is Not throwing it in your face. To me that is a good sign. Certainly not a negative.


She has still yet to have him meet any of her family except for her mom. I'm not trying to mind read but there has to be something to this all. It's as if she doesn't want her peers to know about him.

^^^ That's a fair interpretation and it's not mind reading. It's a series of choices SHE has made that you are observing, about which you are making reasonable inferences...

Gosh I feel bad about yelling at my oldest. But he needed to get some of it just not all of it.

Why not MODEL an apology to him, so he can give his sister one, too? Teaching point??

If you have any suggestion on 180's or Gals let me know. Thanks as always!

I'll check to see if I posted my GAL list already b/c I don't want to bore you with it again if I already did.

But the bowling at least gets you meeting new people.

GAL does a lot of things.

GAL helps us detach.

Getting our minds OFF our spouse is key, so meeting/interacting with people HELPS that a lot.
Doing solo activities as GAL, not so much. (Exercising is healthy for us and ought to be done. But is it really "GAL" or is it more like 'taking care of ourselves"??

I think the latter, but it's not a big point. It's just to say GAL should involve others and imo, not consist of a lot of solo things. Just my opinion but loosely based on something my DB coach said along those lines.

GAL helps detach and Detaching helps us truly move forward (NOT = Giving up)

and without detaching, how can we really grow and evolve into the people we were meant to become? How can we do that while we are obsessing?

Obsessing is unhealthy and that's another reason why Detachment is crucial. IT's not just a "Goal" or aspiration; it's mandatory to being a healthy person who is not co-dependent.

That's my long winded .02 for now.

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter.

I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you are, or 'too busy' to GAL).

Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).

I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).

I auditioned for community theater and met some VERY fun, creative people. I got cast a lot, too. Nothing takes your mind OFF your WAS, better than having to learn lines and blocking, and being in front of a live audience or rehearsing with other actors, knowing a live audience in coming soon.

Once after a back injury, I had a dress rehearsal for an intense play I was in. For almost 3 hours I was standing on stage, learning all the blocking (movement)& cues for a "tech rehearsal" & how the lights would do their "Tricks" etc.

Never once in that 3 hour period did the herniated disc really get to me. I was SO preoccupied by the play & coming opening night. Boy, talk about mind over matter!
So I learned a lesson that day and it SO applies to DBing as well.

Get busy, get pre-occupied and the WAS will NOT take up so much of our brain OR heart space.

I also do stand up comedy **(and in 2006 I did a whole set on a MLC at the Improv. It went very well! We LBSers are Not alone, that's for sure).**

I learned to cross country ski, & became a better shooter.

I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile (="snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding that.

I Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license. INTENSE, longstanding bucket list item.

Went skydiving. I Loved it so much, I did it again. I plan on doing it again, soon!

Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape.

Looking good makes a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.

(Plus I'd just had our last child, so I needed to lose the baby weight. It was NOT easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long LONG winters).

In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.

I Saw a therapist and for some months, I went on ADs. (Both helped)

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it).

Joined the Officer's Wives club (after 15 years of active duty wife status and being an officer myself).

(I Wish I had joined sooner! I Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group

Took a class in Conversational French

Took a class in Italian cooking--delicious!

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest some things you can do that don't cost much.

Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were Free, or darn cheap.

Finally, there's another dimension to GAL that we ALL need to remember.

GAL makes us more interestED in the world, and more interestING as people.

SO WE bring more "to the table" than our neediness.

(Do you understand ^^ this?)

Well, on that note, GOOD LUCK GAL and
being a happy camper

[3kids]

25years thank you so much. I don't want you to think I'm an intravert. I do try to get out once a week at least. The weekend before I took the kids to the town Catholic Church social, which was very fun and got to see all of the wife's family. Which I miss very much because I do not have that big of a family. Last weekend a friend called me up on a spur of the moment and we went out for the whole night. My kids call me a social butterfly. And I try to install that on them.

I really think I'm doing a great job with my kids through this experience. My youngest has a field trip today to the local fire hall. I wish I could have made it to it. But work got in the way. Anyways I asked the wife if she could go and she said why can't you go. I explained and she said she would make it to it. This morning the youngest was crying because he wanted dad to go because he thought mom would forget and not show up. Tells a little about he feels about the wife, WOW. Anyhow I made him feel better by just telling him that mommy wouldn't forget but if she did that dad would show up no matter what his dad's boss said. And have his teacher call daddy. He calmed down a little but continued to cry all the way to school and to the class room. Sometimes I wish she could hear some of the stuff they tell me. So she could feel the pain in there hearts. But that's between them.

Ok have a question. Don't know about DBing on this part. I had to miss my first football game for the oldest because of a work meeting. I thought I could make it to it but I called the wife on the car ride home to see where they were at on time frame of the game. She said I would never make it in time. Turns out I wouldn't. She called me 15 minutes later to tell me the game was over and they had there first loss. She tried to explain the game to me but doesn't know football that well. Then she went into how she had a great time with all the other moms and had some great laughs. I validated the best I could. Because I was upset at my self for not being able to make it and I ended the conversation. My question is this. I was looking internally and was wondering. What if I was so independent in my life with the wife. She felt left out of a lot of things. Like being a MOM. With her busy schedual during our marriage. We talk a lot about mirror affect and butterfly affect. Was she calling me back so I would start to do the same with her. That I don't know. Just have to see I guess.

I did get a point off to the owner of my company in yesterday's meeting that I am not happy with him or this company. He is setting up a time later this week to talk with me. I am a manager for one of his seven stores and I do it very very well for him. Have had a lot of promises not met by him. Now it's time for him to step up for me or I can start looking for a new job.

By the way 25years I loved those videos. The super women stance works wonders. It's like an instant mood picker upper. Just saying I forgot all that stuff from my college years. Thanks for the reminder!

Thanks PM for the list, it's a constant list I can melt into my brain. This whole situation does bring down your confindence. So it's nice to see it come back alittle.

[3kids]

Sorry but the question was, do I contact more? Remember I was always pretty indenpendant. I have never been the one to contact her through this whole seperation. Should I contact her more? Or give the less available approach more time. Food for thought.

[Roberta]

Your questions are valid. It's hard to figure out the right thing to do. That's why the help of a Divorce Busting Coach is crucial while navigating this tricky period of your marriage.
DB coaches can help you with answers and strategies that will give you the confidence you need to know that you are making effective change. Call me to discuss our coaching program.
303-444-7004

[3kids]

Just wow!

Well I ignored a phone call from the wife last night. And this morning she called again so I answered. Probably shouldn't have, ha ha. She got the blunt end of my D9 sadness. The tears and pain. And of course it got put on me. Beginning of conversation= the D9 told the wife that daddy still loves her and wants to make it work and that daddy tells her this all the time. Just so you know I don't do that. That would make my daughter hurt even worse and that's not ok. I console my daughter the best I can, she is a very emotional little girl. Then she went into how the youngest has been really acting up for her and crying. I told her that is why we need to get these kids into therapy and maybe us as well. She went into she can't afford it and I shouldn't front all the bill on it. I stated it is our kids we need to help them through this. She said she understood but it didn't help her money issues. Then she went into how the oldest keeps stuff from me. I think this was to hurt my feelings more than anything. She stated that he doesn't want to tell me about stuff he does with OM. And that the iphone case that he just got was from his bio dad and not her. I think there is an important part right there. That my oldest doesn't want to show his feelings about OM and bio dad. Because me hates both of them. Don't know how to fix that or what to do on that. I don't want to control S12 but I don't want to hide my feelings about either of them either. Portraying my feelings isn't good either. I validated by telling her I'm sorry you got that feeling of our daughter wanting us to work but I am not telling her that. D9 is just expressing her feelings and pain. But know you now what I deal with and we just have to be there the best we can for our kids. She then went into how the daughter told her that she would be happy if dad and mom would be just together. The wife told her so you want mom and dad to be together but mommy not to be happy. D9 response "yep"(laugh to my self "kids").

So this is when I brought up how are you doing to the wife. She said terrible.
M- what is going on
W- I'm not happy and depressed
M- how can you change that
W- I don't know
M- I thought you had a plan for this of having a support group and doing yoga and meditation.
W- (no answer to question) things are not great between me and OM either. There is a lot of problems with his family and us and everything.
M- (didn't respond to OM comment) how about your sister and family. Why aren't you talking to them about how you are with your depression.
W- I can't talk to them
M- what can I do to help you. You have to be open and honest with me. Do I have to go down to the cities in a back alley to find you some medication or take you in to get you help or what. I can't help you if you don't let me. I truley care about you and your well being your my kids mom and you have to be there for the rest of our lives. Through graduation and weddings and everything.
W- I love my job and my school. But I'm just not happy doing any of it and can't consitrate on them. I took a test at school on depression the other day and out of 50 I got 38. I don't know if it's all situational or what it is. I'm just not happy.
M- so how do you get happy. What will help?
W- I don't know. (Crying)
M- well what ever I can do to help with your well being. Your health is a big concern of my.
W- thank you(crying harder)
M- have a good day good bye and let me know if I can help

Long conversation, but that was pretty close to it all. Few things I think I need to address with my self. First I have to figure out about the oldest and what to do there. Second I have to figure out something for health insurance but can't until November 1st. She needs help but until she lets some body help or helps her self nothing I can do on her depression. The kids at my place are mostly happy so I think I'm good there. I know in my heart of hearts that I don't portray hate towards there mom or tell them that I want to be with her or anything like that. So that's on them to figure that out. But maybe I could do some thing about my portray of OM but I just don't care for that type of person. I mean who does what he is doing not a moral person what so ever.