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Please note: English is not my native but my 2nd language, so grammar and other spelling mistakes will happen by me.

I live in Scandinavia, and laws including divorce laws are completely and utterly different in the country that I live in, when compared with U.S.A. and most other countries in Europe (example: applying for divorce can be done by one spouse or both by filling in an electronic form and emailing it - which takes maximum 5 minutes to do and is never contested nor read hence always accepted. To finalize a divorce the same "procedure" is done by one spouse or both after 6 months and before 12 months are up. No lawyers need to be involved at all at any stage, if all is agreed amicably between the spouses).

Before starting opening up my story, I want to thank all of you that have taken the time to post your stories on this online community and genuinely write about your flaws, faults, problems, progress and learning insights: that takes real courage and maturity to do so.
And a special thanks to the very active vets here, as in: 25yearsmlc, MrBond, sandi2 and Wonka: I have read many of your thread comments/feedback/insights/2*4 over the past weeks and thereby learned tons already (even though I know that each and every relationship and situation is different from another). Please keep them coming!

My story:
As I am here, I am DB-ing and busy with Becoming-V2 of myself and when/by reaching that being a man only a fool would leave. Hence I do not want to become divorced, and would like my soul-mate + lover + best friend of my life and current WAW also becoming-V2 of herself and starting in what I know can become a fantastic fulfilling relationship in due time if both our hearts are in it. I do have some work to do on myself, still, in the meantime...

My wife left me at the start of August to live in a rented apartment about 1.5km/1 mile away, taking of course half of the furniture and her belongings with her (it was a very tough day, but I helped and I held up till she had moved out). During mid June she gave the "IDNLYA" speech and also told me that that she was going to divorce me and live on her own, all of which for me at the time came completely "out of the blue".
During mid-June and mid-July we divided up our assets on paper and she filed for divorce, so all was done in what felt as "warp speed" to me during those weeks.

Background and why:
We have been living together for 18+ years and married for 14 of those, while living and working in a few countries during all that time (the last 15 years in her native country). I am 47 years and she is 45 years, and we have no children.
In several discussions we have had after the breakup at least the first 16 of those 18 years have been very good to good (her words). Those first 16 years were full of happiness, joy, joint quality time and good communications and...no real major problems nor fights between us. And yes: we are both conflict avoiding, as we now know and have acknowledged between us.

About 2 1/2 years ago my wife was so unhappy in her job that after long talks between us she decided to quit her job. Financially all was more than fine, and we had been living before on only my salary for a while when earlier on she had the opportunity to study abroad and later on she had also taken a 1/2 year sabbatical from her work (we have always agreed to live life to the fullest, meaning that when interesting opportunities arrive to take them up when we both agree. As "coulda/woulda/shoulda" regrets when looking back on life is no way to live).
She was happy for about the first half year while at home and taking up all kind of new courses, but then became more and more unhappy. I did not really noticed that, and all the time encouraged her to find her true work passion in live - which I now know put a lot of stress on her as she felt she was not able to find/figure such out. At the same time I became fully occupied with my work (the usual excuses like: major reorganization, possible promotion opportunities and having to jump in when others moved, etc. etc.) and a new hobby passion of mine, and additionally we bought a summer place that needed a lot of fixing up which I worked on like a madman (so to make it nice for us both and once done to be able to relax there) which used up any free time that I had left over in weekends.

So all the time I was thinking that I simply gave her more and more time and space while trying to find her passions in life, and what a good husband I was to provide for her and us and doing all I was doing. I was actually jealous every now and then on her, because she had "all the time in the world" which was a luxury I had not had for the past 20+ years. However in reality I thereby did not continue to make her my #1 priority in life anymore, and totally ignored her "nagging" (like: "can you please for once leave work on time so to have that nice home cooked dinner together that I make, can you please come to bed together at the same time for a good joint night sleep, can you please stop surfing the internet as you do all the time as it feels that you are trying to learn like a madmen and do 10K hours of knowledge in 3 years for your new hobby").
She in turn stopped "nagging" in due time and I was thinking that all was OK, but it was of course the opposite because she had given up on me to change/turn around my bad behaviors and started with making herself emotional distance from me during the last year. I still did not noticed anything (because she kept up speaking my love languages and thereby kept my love tank full, as I only now realize when reading the 5LL book during the last few weeks).

The breakup:
On that particular day in mid June I was actually very happy when coming home, because I had finally realized during that working day that I was my own worse work enemy and had trained everybody around me to always count on me almost no matter what the hour of the day or day of the week it was. So I had finally decided to re-train myself and all around me on work, so get a normal life - work balance (rather than work and not much life = totally wrong balance). I told my wife of my work actions and had brought her some flowers, and was very proud and happy with myself. I felt 10 out of 10 at that moment as life was perfect.
Hours later she sat me down and gave me the "I Do Not Love You Anymore" speech, and also told me that that she was going to divorce me and would live on her own. I felt 0 out of 10. I was totally emotionally devastated and pleaded and begged and cried etc. etc. I walked out a few hours later and had a talk over the phone with her sister while I was crying all the time, who told me to ask her the why and really listen to her and ask more questions. So I did.

I realized the next day while walking to work that I needed professional help from a shrink, as I obviously had totally missed/misjudged the status of what is THE most important in my life: being the relationship between me and my wife. I also realized at the same time that I would not be able to function well on my work for some immediate working days, as I was completely emotionally devastated and in the worse pain ever of my life. My work provides excellent private medical health care and I have bosses and an HR department who understand such situations, hence some days off and access to a shrink was arranged accordingly.

While being emotionally devastated, the logical part of my brain fully understood that my wife had made up her mind and was not going change it no matter what I would say or do in the days and weeks to come. So I made it very clear that I did not agreed and that I did/do not want to divorce, while being nice and not being in her way at all. And in essence I implemented and acted as per LRT, even though I did not knew anything about Divorce Busting or Divorce Remedy at that time yet.

The why:
My actions, or actual lack of them, towards my wife for the last 2 years made her feel that she was not my #1 priority in life anymore. I was no longer the man she had fallen in love with and had been for the first 16 years of our relationship. More specifically/detailed:
- I did not pay her nor our home any enough attention, and took most of what she did for us for granted.
- I did not give her by far enough quality time, including really listening to her.
- I totally underestimated the importance of not being in paid work job place and what that does for anybody who is used to such (even though I know it so well), let alone for my wife.
- I paid all the bills etc., and that made her feel completely financial dependent on me. We have never made any problems nor fights about our finances and money in general, and I have always adhered to the simple principle of he/she who earns more, pays more. Additionally she has always had full access to all bank accounts, so I never saw money as any problem between us. But it actually was.
- As she acknowledge to me afterwards: her love for me was slowly killed over time by 100+ disappointments, and she should not have to threaten with a divorce for me to "wake up" (alas: so it was!), "too little too late".

OM:
There is no OM.

MLC
Perhaps, but I do not know nor am I any expert in any of this.

My 180's:
- I had already put my work down to normal hours on the day/evening of the Bomb Drop, and have kept that up ever since.
- I immediately cleaned up our home of junk and stuff I had not filled away. I was rather ashamed of it, because it felt like the "broken window syndrome" in one sense when I started to look around me: how could I have missed that/just let it go! Obviously it has been kept totally clean ever since by me.
- I am learning to really listen again.
- I have minimized my internet surfing time drastically, and almost never watch TV anymore (and do not miss it one bit).
- I have started to home cook and make nice dinners every day (I used to cook only every now and then, even though I have always enjoyed doing nice cooking).
- I have started to exercise again and now daily for the past months, as I had not done for many years (and only then once or twice a week). I'm starting to be in a really good shape, and being proud of it.
- Rather than planning and pre-planning a lot, I am more "in the moment" and relaxed now.
- Getting more in touch again with my emotions and feelings, and letting others know about those in a positive way.
- I have bought and read a lot of books on relationships, including Divorce Remedy which I received on 7th August 2014 and have re-read many times since (if only I had known about it years ago...).

GAL:
- Reconnected with old friends and made some new friends.
- Making sure that most week days and each weekend days I go out and see and do things, thereby not staying home.
- Started with salsa dancing lessons.
- Having a permanent PMA on everything. Smile, smile and smile!

Detachment:
This is indeed hard to do, also as I have been in the worse pain ever of my life - like all LBS's as I have read here - so the feeling/need to want to reach out/contact the WAW is there often. But so far I have been able to control it well, and ~95% of the first contacts has come from WAW with my other contacts been due to mostly logistical reasons (like postal items or things to do with our summer place).

Positive signs:
- After many weeks of absolute no to minimal contact, while she was picking up some remaining items we ended up having a 4+ hour listen and talk about why we ended up in this situation. It was very frank, open and honest and the best listen and talk about our feelings and behaviors we had for a long time.
- After that the contacts has been a bit more frequent, albeit mostly texts.
- Several weeks ago we had to take care of the summer house garden, and although agreed on only 1 1/2 days we ended up 2 1/2 days together. We were both very relaxed, enjoyed each other company while not bringing up the R and sleeping next to each other (there are enough beds and a couch in our summer place so to sleep separately, and we talked about it).
- A week ago she asked if I wanted to go to the summer place with her + her sister & dog. Again we agreed on 1 1/2 days while we ended up 2 1/2 days. Same pattern as several weeks ago.

Do I still experience the "roller-coaster ride" for myself: yes. Not so big up's & down's as in the first few weeks and months, but definitely yes.

Another key thing what I have re-learned from DR: do more of what works, and stop what does not work!

Some initial questions:
1. Next week is another major milestone, as in that I will buy her out from our main home/apartment as we have agreed upon earlier. That will provide her the financial freedom for a very long time (well, of course depends on how she will spend it. She has planned to sooner or later buy an apartment, but anything can happen of course).
On the one hand I know (my logical brain) that this is purely a business transaction as part of her started divorce process, on the other hand I feel that I would like to tell/remind her (my emotional side) that this is absolutely not what I want (as the only true winners here are the bank and the tax man). In the end I really do not care about money, and only about our relationship: so let my urge to tell/remind her go, as it will achieve nothing but negative feelings for her and she already knows what I want?

2. I feel like writing a letter to her in the weeks to come, so to tell more about feelings etc. But is this wise and/or pursuing or...?


Me:47 W:45
T:18 M:14
No children
BD: Jun 2014 INILWY and want to divorce
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W called early in the evening today with some info around our summer place (as it is for sale).

I asked how she was feeling and doing and if next weeks bank appointment is still on, and she said she was doing fine (and sounded OK) and yes it is on.
We then still talked a bit, but this time I was not good in taking the lead of bringing the conversation to a finish as I was obviously too happy to listen and talk. We wished each other a good weekend at the end.

So my own above question 1. answered, as in: I better keep that purely business during next week.

Any vets or experienced DB'ers wanting to give me further insights/questions/help on my question 2. and/or other questions for self improvement: I'm all ears so to Becoming-V2.


Me:47 W:45
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Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.


Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Hello, B-V2. I'm sorry you're here, but it sounds like you're making pretty good progress.

You can write the letter if you want, but absolutely do NOT give it to her. I've only been on the boards a few months, but I've seen bunches of letters handed to estranged spouses but never, ever, ever seen them do any good whatsoever.

Of course if one of the vets you named above disagrees, go with their opinion.

I don't want to comment on the financial transaction because that's beyond my scope. But I would like to say I recognize how painful and final that must feel. Just remember that our feelings are very changeable and only reflect the truth of how we react to the situation, not the truth in total. There's a reason for the saying "nothing is sure but death and taxes."


Me42, H40
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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Welcome to the board

Get out and GAL.

DETACH.


Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.

Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.

USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Thank you for your welcome, Cadet, this forum is a life and divorce saver.


Me:47 W:45
T:18 M:14
No children
BD: Jun 2014 INILWY and want to divorce
W filed Divorce: Jul 2014
W moved out: Aug 2014
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Originally Posted By: Maybell
Hello, B-V2. I'm sorry you're here, but it sounds like you're making pretty good progress.

You can write the letter if you want, but absolutely do NOT give it to her. I've only been on the boards a few months, but I've seen bunches of letters handed to estranged spouses but never, ever, ever seen them do any good whatsoever.

Of course if one of the vets you named above disagrees, go with their opinion.

I don't want to comment on the financial transaction because that's beyond my scope. But I would like to say I recognize how painful and final that must feel. Just remember that our feelings are very changeable and only reflect the truth of how we react to the situation, not the truth in total. There's a reason for the saying "nothing is sure but death and taxes."


Maybell: thank you very much for taking the time of posting in my thread and providing your opinions to my questions.

I am not familiar with your particular situation yet (I will read up), however being a total "noob" at the moment I doubt that I will be able to advice anybody yet in the weeks/months to come (apart from providing a general man's point of view, in case somebody request such for particular questions).

I'll take you up on not giving the letter even if I write one, as I was already doubting myself if such is a good idea at this stage.


Me:47 W:45
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Yesterday Sunday 28th September, she contacted me per text in the early afternoon, asking if I had fun with my salsa lesson (as those are on Sunday from 12-13) and if I wanted to join her for a walk as she was in my neighborhood (the area that she stated she was going to walk is exactly where the salsa dancing lessons are held).

As I was GAL at that moment and sitting at a restaurant outside enjoying a beautiful sea view with stunning blue sky and having some coffee and cake, I answered her with:
- Thanking for asking (being polite and nice)
- stating that the salsa lesson was fun (as it was)
- and if she would like to join me where I was.
Mmm: lets check the above for proper DB'ing: me too eager in answering semi immediately (2x4 myself), validating OKis, and too perusing for asking to join me (2x4 myself again)?

She replied with "I'll pas this time..." and that she actually want to talk with me as somebody was potentially interested in buying our summer place, and if she perhaps would call me in the evening and tell me about it?
I replied that with "Call me in the evening, bye."

When called later in the evening, it became clear that she was already contacted during Friday evening. I thereby got the feeling that she actually contacted me only on this Sunday to check up on me (like: is he really going to salsa dancing? What else is he up to?), but hee: I guess that now I am mindreading and that is not good either!

Any tips/insight on the above and/or 2x4's: I'm here to learn and improve myself, so let me know and give it to me straight.


Me:47 W:45
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It has been very inspirational to read MrBond (aka Stuck808 in the beginning) original thread, among others, with so much insights provided from vets like sandi2, 25yearsmlc, Coach & Mrs. Couch. Lots to learn.

For my upcoming tomorrow's banking business of buying her out from our main home/apartment, I will have to be as cool as a cucumber and therefore will practice upfront during today to STFU and just let it be the purely business transaction that it is. All the while while being relaxed, confident, secure and being attractive.

Any thoughts by anybody on this and my earlier writings?


Me:47 W:45
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Originally Posted By: B-V2
Any thoughts by anybody on this and my earlier writings?

Reading quickly what you wrote, and I may have missed something.

Do you think you can FIX this?|
Cause the two of you are now on separate journeys.
You can FIX YOU but not HER.

25mlc like to say make yourself into a person that only a FOOL would leave, those are the changes that you need to make.
There are no guarantees that your marriage will be restored.

The only thing I can say is the LBS gets to choose in the end, and if you have not yet choosen then it is not yet the end.

Keep reading and posting


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Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: B-V2
Any thoughts by anybody on this and my earlier writings?

Reading quickly what you wrote, and I may have missed something.

Do you think you can FIX this?|
Cause the two of you are now on separate journeys.
You can FIX YOU but not HER.

25mlc like to say make yourself into a person that only a FOOL would leave, those are the changes that you need to make.
There are no guarantees that your marriage will be restored.

The only thing I can say is the LBS gets to choose in the end, and if you have not yet choosen then it is not yet the end.

Keep reading and posting


Thank you for your follow up reply Cadet, much appreciated. And yes: I will keep reading and posting.

I knew and know that I can only fix and improve myself and thereby Becoming-V2, and that is what I am working on (I had actually just realize one part that I needed to change on the day of the BD, see my 1st posting). My changes are structural for me and for the rest of my life, not just so to win her back.

Our marriage as it was is now over and there is no looking back on restoring that as it had become: only going forward. In the past months I have been asked the real tough question: if I would not have changed for the next 5 years would I have still liked myself as I slowly had become. And my answer was: no. So from that point of view I'm guessing that I was myself in some sort of fog too for the past 1 to 2 years.

And so I am here for the reason as I have not yet choosen to give up on a potential future relationship between us, and I still need to do more work on me so to become a person that only a fool would leave. And the future will unfold itself, and I will be OK no matter what.


Me:47 W:45
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W filed Divorce: Jul 2014
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B-V2, the best way to get people to comment on your postings is to visit their threads too. Even as a newbie you have valuable perspective on what you see in people's postings, and if you don't, then just saying you were there and offering support can get people interested in you. I don't have many men visiting my thread (which is super long and overly wordy, so just catch up where you are!!) but I do find their perspective useful just to help me understand gender differences.

You seem to have absorbed the teachings in the postings pretty well with the journey, making yourself a person only a fool would leave, etc. Know it, but go on your journey and let yourself be surprised to see what you learn. Don't worry about asking for 2x4s. They aren't the only way to learn. Sometimes just seeing yourself from someone else's eyes can be surprising and thought-provoking.

Hope you're doing OK. You're in for a wild ride. smile


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Welcome aboard B-V2.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Originally Posted By: Maybell
B-V2, the best way to get people to comment on your postings is to visit their threads too. Even as a newbie you have valuable perspective on what you see in people's postings, and if you don't, then just saying you were there and offering support can get people interested in you. I don't have many men visiting my thread (which is super long and overly wordy, so just catch up where you are!!) but I do find their perspective useful just to help me understand gender differences.

You seem to have absorbed the teachings in the postings pretty well with the journey, making yourself a person only a fool would leave, etc. Know it, but go on your journey and let yourself be surprised to see what you learn. Don't worry about asking for 2x4s. They aren't the only way to learn. Sometimes just seeing yourself from someone else's eyes can be surprising and thought-provoking.

Hope you're doing OK. You're in for a wild ride. smile


Hi Maybell, thank you for your follow up and I definitely will visit several other people's threads (have just started to do so).
I'm doing OK and can always do better, and am aware that my journey has just started and some way to go still (understatement). A large part of the wild ride it up to me/us, isn't it?


Me:47 W:45
T:18 M:14
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Welcome aboard B-V2.



Thank you sandi2, and especially for what you are doing here continiously for all others: amazing.

This older post of your's is I think compulsive reading for most:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...450#Post1133450

And interestingly enough the two books from Michelle Langley was the first decent information I stumbled upon days after BD (I highly recommend those too) even though it does not seems to be fully applicable for my particular situation (as there appears to be no OM), and many weeks before I found out about Michele Weiner-Davis and DR let alone this place.
My wife read large part of book 1, don't know if she ever read book 2.

Looking forward for reading any further advice from you and all other vets, on all our journeys!

Last edited by B-V2; 10/01/14 05:41 AM. Reason: Corrected wrong link.

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B-V2, you sound like you're doing all the right things. Definitely don't send the letter to her, as it likely won't do any good. Let her initiate contact, and just be friendly and pleasant toward her when she does. Sounds like you're dong well with your GAL activities and adjusting your life to get rid of the habits that weren't contributing to your happiness. You've obviously done your research! The trick now is to stay on course and not deviate from this path. She may or may not come around, but as you noted, you can at least focus on yourself and your own happiness for the future.


M: 43 H: 39
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BD: 6/2014
S: 8/2014
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Originally Posted By: Ahoy
B-V2, you sound like you're doing all the right things. Definitely don't send the letter to her, as it likely won't do any good. Let her initiate contact, and just be friendly and pleasant toward her when she does. Sounds like you're dong well with your GAL activities and adjusting your life to get rid of the habits that weren't contributing to your happiness. You've obviously done your research! The trick now is to stay on course and not deviate from this path. She may or may not come around, but as you noted, you can at least focus on yourself and your own happiness for the future.


Hello Ahoy: thank you for having posted in my thread. Me doing all the right things: I wish, but I don't always do so.

I will not send any letter, and yes: I let her initiate contact, and being friendly and pleasant comes natural to me because the way I feel about her and I do not carry anger nor bitterness (sadness however: yes. However no need to show that, just PMA).
I still need to worker harder on my true listening capabilities, and make sure that my inner "Mr. Fixit" learns not to speak up/lecture after listening. Validate and move on with more listening, sometimes easier said than done...


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Journaling:

"Good":
Last week Wednesday banking/buying out business went well, as in: I was indeed as cool as a cucumber, confident and looking and smelling the part - and she gave me a very nice according compliment when she walked in as she was positively surprised of all that. The signing and banking work was all over in less than 10 minutes.

Feelings: when outside, I told that I was sad due to the divorce path that we were and are on was and is not what I want, nor the part what we had just finalized in the bank.
She did not really responded, but looked sad too. She then asked for going on lunch together, but I declined (first of all as I was feeling very sad inside myself) also as we had weeks ago already agreed on meeting up that evening - and we walked our separate ways. She had some tears coming up while walking away, and so did I.

Not good:
When meeting up in the evening in a local place for a bite to eat and a drink, near the end I blew it because I lost my true listening and validation and instead started to argue.
Why/what about: several weeks ago I had provided a potential hot inside tip on a work opportunity, for which she had then text me back "thanks..., I'll think about it." Near the end I brought this up, and I said that I understood that her reply read like a big hint of "not for me!" and why then not simply writing such instead of unclear hinting, as I am still not able to read minds. And that I know this was not a nice subject for her, however lets not always avoid those kind of not nice subjects and lets talk like adults about it.

Obviously I should have been thinking before speaking any and all this, because: what was I actually trying to achieve with saying all this? Be Happy OR be "Right", and I was obviously busy with trying to be "Right"...wrong, wrong, wrong (as it serves no real purpose)!
As I noticed that it all started to go wrong, I called it "the end" and we left the place and departed just like that.

After 1 minute of walking away I felt so bad, that I called her and apologized stating that it was not how I wanted to end the evening together on a total bad ending, and if it was OK for me rejoin her so to still talk for a few minutes. That was OK with her, and so we did and the first thing she told me was: "here you go again, lecturing me.". So although bad, at least this gave me direct feedback and insight into a problem area of myself.
Then I said something that made her burst with positive laughter, and I had to laugh too and then we both left.

Had a scheduled session with my shrink this Monday, which was a very good session (the shrink continues to ask me tough questions, which is what I need).

Any vets caring to provide questions/feedback/help/2*4: I'm all ears. Continuing with LRT in the meanwhile and GAL and my 180's (although I wish so much just to call and listen to her and be together, however I fully understand that such has to come from her side for any future R to have any change).

Last edited by B-V2; 10/08/14 10:18 PM.

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HI B-V2, I'm a "Mrs. Fix-It" so I am familiar with this issue. And actually, I'm finding it liberating in many ways to not feel responsible for his problems anymore. Certainly, in my next relationship (whether with him or someone new) I plan to avoid trying to "fix" or "rescue" or "help" others unless they explicitly ask for it. This is an opportunity for growth.

I hear you about wanting to just connect with her, and about writing a letter. I am struggling today with wanting to connect with H to get some clarity about the direction of our R, but I know that is verboten. Some days it's all I can do not to think about the problem as something I want to "fix." Instead, I need to work on fixing myself, and that takes introspection (which you are doing), and GAL, and time.

Being patient and allowing time to take its course is the hard part. I feel for you. Hang in there.


M: 43 H: 39
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Hi B-V2

You do sound good and as I read your posts you seem to be on the right track.

Since you have not been posting for that long I don’t have the full picture! I am not a VET but as you already know I have been here for some time and I have read a lot. I do have a few comments for you:

You seem to be very focused on your W, her actions, sayings and the way you believe she comprehend your interactions - and that is totally normal! I was the world champion of this and almost all LBS does it for some time. IMHO one of the key-issues to DBing is to snap out of this. You have read the “focus on you” sentence probably a million times – now you have to implement it.

(Sandi tried, without any luck I might add, to tell me this when I started here. I believe I “wasted” half a year focusing solely on my W and possible R instead of saving me. Today I believe that the only way to save your R is to start by saving you)

You do want to become the H that nobody would leave but not for your W – it has to be for you. It won’t last if you do this for anybody else – but you. This Ver. 2 of you will take time to design and shape and then some to become.
You have a good starting place at your 180-list and your W certainly gave you a major hint about the lecturing. You are reading R-books and might have gotten more from these. We LBHs seems to be so focused (at first) towards saving the R that we forget the most important thing in all of this: Ourselves!

So my first little advice is that you start changing your readings a little. Try finding books about how to develop you and get inspiration towards being a good and decent human being with a fulfilled way of life. I would suggest Hold on to your N.U.Ts, 7 habits, Psyko Cybernetics, How to win friends and influence people in the digital age as starters (should keep you going for a week or two smile )

(If you want further understanding about Rs I have had great pleasure in reading “Co-dependent no more” and “his needs, her needs”. Start with the latter.)

It took me at least ˝ year to grasp or comprehend this “Focus on you” but when I got started (and went LRT) I took some major steps rather quickly. I started to restore my self-confidence and IMO that might be the single most important thing into all of this.

Second advice is to slow down. Again you seem to be doing what we all do – you want to fix it all NOW….trust me on this one: You can’t! Change is good but radical and fast change sometimes tend to be shallow and chances are that your W just sees this as your way of winning her back and therefore thinks little of it. You want her to think “WTF is going on” but not followed by “what an idiot – does he really believe that this will work….” You want the “too little – to late” not the “to much – to fast”. I got both smile
Slow down, consider the changes you want to make, think them through, apply time and then do it! If you want to cook, then think it through, start by doing it once or twice a week. If you still like it then increase otherwise discard. Make this way into a habit otherwise you will come out as changing all the time, not steady, not believable, not consistent and you don’t want that – not for possible R and especially not for you!

And then a few Qs:
1/ Why do you want to write the letter?
I did it! Some VETS told me not to and some told me to. There is no clear answer on this issue as I read the VETs. My opinion today is that you shouldn’t write the letter. You have told you W to her face what you want and you have talked about your M so what is the purpose of the letter?
Think it through!

2/ Are you absolutely sure about no OM?
It is rather seldom in here smile

So in short: Make this about you and do slow down smile
If your situation is as most you are in for a long ride. Nobody knows where this will take you but if you do the work it will be to a fantastic place and your W just might choose to follow you when you get there.

Nice to have a fellow Scandinavian in here!! I will try to follow your journey and extend advice if I have any!
All the best!!
F


Me:44 W:43
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Thank you F, for taking the time and giving such detailed feedback.

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

...
You have read the “focus on you” sentence probably a million times – now you have to implement it.
...


Real and full detach is indeed the hardest part. I now starting to understand it much clearer why this is an absolute must.

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

...
We LBHs seems to be so focused (at first) towards saving the R that we forget the most important thing in all of this: Ourselves!
...


Yes: so true also for me.

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

...
I would suggest Hold on to your N.U.Ts, 7 habits, Psyko Cybernetics, How to win friends and influence people in the digital age as starters (should keep you going for a week or two smile )

(If you want further understanding about Rs I have had great pleasure in reading “Co-dependent no more” and “his needs, her needs”. Start with the latter.)
...


Thank you for those suggestions, I will order these and read them all (while also continuing with GAL and 180's).

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

...
You want her to think “WTF is going on” but not followed by “what an idiot – does he really believe that this will work….” You want the “too little – to late” not the “to much – to fast”. I got both smile
...


Understood.

And as answer to your 2 questions:

1/ Because a letter can be re-read over and over again if so wanted by the receiver, while a conversation gets filled with more noise over time (and/or important words missed out or not heard or forgotten more and more).
Also the writer, me in this case, can really express exactly and as clear as possible what the relationship and loss of connection - and re-finding it - is all about. As time can be taken/used to write such.
And yes: I do fully understand that as long as the WAW/ex-wife is not interested in such, it will never happen in the first place.

2/ No OM: to the best of my knowledge till date. Am I 100.0% sure: can we ever be?


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Journaling:

Had a major setback/"crash" last weekend 10-12th October, by losing my positive "mojo" and ending up with interaction with W because of her feeling very worried - which equate to me as me being "needy"...

What happened:
I had been reading a lot more and thinking about what made us slowly growing apart during the last year or so, and W losing the connection/giving up without me fully noticing. I realized - in simple terms, in reality it is of course much more complicated than that - that we were caught in the mutual circle of negatively amplification of not longer giving to each other the real love we both need(ed).
And that made me extremely sad to realize, because for me to give out love is a very conscious (not even a) choice and not just a feeling that one day stops and then is simply lost forever. And not having done so from my side for a while, without even me realizing it fully, was/is so out of character for me.

A bit later on I then sent out a text to a relative of my W, so to thank for always sending out good positive energy and being there. And this was almost immediately answered with a text reply...by my W if I was doing OK (as they were both together at that time).
And that totally took me of my guard, and rather than thinking it over I responded with just a "no" reply - as was my true feeling at that moment: I was crashed and was crying to the bone. That let to an immediate call from her (as she was very worried about my possible state, as she said so) and a follow up walk & talk the next day.

Only towards the end of the walk & talk did I started to talk about loose of connection, and what I had figured out about that for myself (see above). She only acknowledge that she had lost connection.
Additionally I went into my pain from BD till now, and that the only main positive I could see from that deep and long pain being the confirmation that all we did have before (i.e. the good relationship for at least 16 out of 18 years, from her point of view) was totally real for me. She did confirmed that, stating if all fake we would not feel all that pain for so long.
Then I stated that I was also hurt of no interest from her side what so ever of me seeing a shrink as of from immediately BD day and onward, which is a huge thing for me (and she knows that).

I thereby definitely broke Newbie Guidelines/Rules To Survive item 39:
39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.

Why I still did that: talking about real emotions and true feelings is a 180 for me. By exposing these to her, I hoped that she would open up on her real emotions and true feeling to me too - whatever they would be. I was also thinking that in real terms we are already divorced (because we are: separated, assets divided and paid out, and only the final paper is outstanding), so what else is there to loose?

Then I ended up asking how she sees us now going forward: best friends, or nothing or what? She started to cry and when I asked what she really wanted her answer was this:
" Leave me alone, because I feel that you pressurize me in having to make a choice and I do not know what I want. I am not ready to go on dates with you. Please do not wait for me, but go on with your life. "
I told her not to worry about me, and we both left. I am still confused about her reply as she is till not fully direct to me. Is this her indirect non-confrontation version of "I am fully done, please never ever see me again"?

I really need to detach and work on me exclusively!


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Thank you so much for sharing this experience. I feel I'm right on the other side, just before doing the same thing. In fact, I'm impressed you got to the end of the walk before bringing up the R. Your story tells me that I should keep my distances for now and wait longer until my W shows more than a little interest in passing.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

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Take the pressure TOTALLY off her - TOTALLY!!

You do NOT know where she is, what it is her mind or what will happen and you can't trust what comes out of her mouth!

Start working you! Stop wondering about her state of mind - it will do you absolutely no good!

I understand that this is so easy to say and so F'ing hard to do but it is the ONLY way to move forward right now!

Stop calling her!
No R-talk at all unless she initiates.
Read Sandi2’s rules every morning
Journal more often in here - it will help you take off the tension and it will help you clarify the thoughts in your mind.
Find out what kind of man you want to be and then start transforming yourself into this man.

Originally Posted By: B-V2
I really need to detach and work on me exclusively!

Detachment comes with time but you can start acting as if! IMHO you can’t decide to detach. Detachment follows automatically if you do the work!
I fully agree on the "work on me" - THAT'S your prime (if not only) focus

About the letter……
With this development and her statement about pressure I would seriously give the letter some more thoughts. I recommend that you do not send it – it will (no matter what) put further pressure on her!

Originally Posted By: B-V2
Is this her indirect non-confrontation version of "I am fully done, please never ever see me again"?
My guess is that not even she knows right now! ….furthermore if it is so, it can easily change tomorrow. I have seen it many times here!
….BUT do look at her this way!
If she is really totally gone for good what will make you the best and happiest man on earth. Case is that good, happy and self-confident men attracts women and that goes for your W as well.

So start defining what will make you happier tomorrow than yesterday! Make the list and get to work. This will not be over in a few days but the sooner you start working the faster you will get through and maybe you W will follow you!


Me:44 W:43
D7, D5 (S11 from other R)

T: 8y - not M
ILYB: 8. Mar 2013
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B-V2,
Even though the text you sent had a positive message, reaching out to W's relative is a no-no and against sandi's rules. If you look back at the chain of events, you can trace it back to that catalyst.

Perhaps in your mind you felt that having this open conversation with her would give you a better understanding of the situation, but you only ended up feeling worse in the end.

Next time, try to hold back on your impulses to communicate with her and her family.

You need to drop the rope and move on with your life. Perhaps in the months to come she will attempt to reconnect with you, but right now she is giving you a clear message that she wants you to back off. And it will not attract her if you are needy and upset. It will have the opposite effect. When you are feeling that way, try reaching out to your own friends and family and this board instead. We all need to vent our emotions.

Stay strong!


M: 43 H: 39
D: 14
Married 15 Together 16
BD: 6/2014
S: 8/2014
OW revealed 10/2014
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Originally Posted By: Mozza
Thank you so much for sharing this experience. I feel I'm right on the other side, just before doing the same thing. In fact, I'm impressed you got to the end of the walk before bringing up the R. Your story tells me that I should keep my distances for now and wait longer until my W shows more than a little interest in passing.


Mozza, yes: keep your distance, read and re-read sandi2's rules (while understanding that those are not iron-glad rules) often and understand that while we LBS's go through the roller coaster ride, so does the WAW/S. Just on different cycles/depths and up's and down of it.

The following has served me well too thus far:
- Practicing on how to STFU most of the time while listening and replying with proper validation (which is not the same as agreeing with everything said) while looking them in the eyes when they talk is another great help and tool (as per sandi2's rule 25), and not only for this crisis.
- Be the one who ends meetings at the right moment (as you are busy and having a live) and then to leave. That, instead of sitting and dragging it out and then have an awkward ending/departure. Good to keep in mind for your upcoming lunch meeting next week and beyond.
- First healing ourselves is key. And as you do not want to "rinse repeat" and bring the same problems into the next relationship (with whoever that will be), it helps to be self critical as we can only change ourselves.

Last edited by B-V2; 10/22/14 08:48 PM.

Me:47 W:45
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Originally Posted By: Ahoy
B-V2,
...
You need to drop the rope and move on with your life. Perhaps in the months to come she will attempt to reconnect with you, but right now she is giving you a clear message that she wants you to back off. And it will not attract her if you are needy and upset. It will have the opposite effect. When you are feeling that way, try reaching out to your own friends and family and this board instead. We all need to vent our emotions.

Stay strong!


Thanks Ahoy for keeping on following my thread and providing your feedback, I appreciate that a lot (even though my own posts and follow up's are slow and in between)!
You are so correct, and after that I went back to LRT and NC and concentrating on me and GAL. More to come in me journaling here.


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Originally Posted By: Fartiltre
Take the pressure TOTALLY off her - TOTALLY!!

You do NOT know where she is, what it is her mind or what will happen and you can't trust what comes out of her mouth!

Start working you! Stop wondering about her state of mind - it will do you absolutely no good!

I understand that this is so easy to say and so F'ing hard to do but it is the ONLY way to move forward right now!
...


F: very wise and so true feedback (as you have: BTDT), thank you so much for sharing and further informing me.

Finding out what kind of man I want to be and starting transforming myself into that man, is under way and my work in progress for some months already.

And I am not sending any letter, not now and not for a long time.

More info by me keeping on journaling here.


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BTDT smile -exactly!

But there is one more thing to this! At some point I actually thought I took the pressure of her but I didnt!
Go through my threads from august last year and you will find advice give to me from Sandi2, LTH (LoveTheHub) and others that guided me through the start of LRT. These advices might help you! It was and still is invaluable to me. I would be nowhere today without it!

Make this about you and only you - but optimize your chances by learning about how to handle the interaction you have with W smile


Me:44 W:43
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T: 8y - not M
ILYB: 8. Mar 2013
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Journaling:

W contacted me in the past day about a bill (I have been on 100.0% NC), and if I wanted to join her for lunch today after she had done a job interview. I confirmed, and we did lunch for about 40 minutes today.

Almost a complete "180" from the earlier 12th October ending talk from her, and thereby proving so right what Fartiltre wrote on 10/18: "My guess is that not even she knows right now! ….furthermore if it is so, it can easily change tomorrow. I have seen it many times here! ".
All part of both of our roller coaster rides...

She was happy (as she has several job interviews lined up now, which is super important for her - as per my first post) and conversation was light. Mostly her telling and showing (phone pictures) what has and is going on in her life and me validating. She did probed me a few time, like for example: "are you going to keep holidays (as she knows I still have some weeks left for this year 2014)?" which I confirmed (because I will and I do have plans) but did not gave any details while bringing the conversation immediately back to her with other subjects. Nor did I share any other details of my GAL activities till date.

When I ended the lunch (back to my work) she asked for a big hug, something she had not asked for anymore for several last times. And I would lie if I wrote that I did not liked that.

I am fully aware that I was just her Mr. Nice Guy (and yep: I have bought and read NMMNG although that is not entirely me), available for lunch with her so to fill up her day. Hence I am not going to see this as any big turn around or anything more than what it was: a pleasant lunch meeting.
Still I saw some glimpses every now and then on her face and body language from past good times interactions and laughs between us, from way before BD times (like in last year and before). Having written that, at the same time no any false hope from my side and back to NC and continue working on myself.

And feedback/insight/2*4's: let me know as I am not made from sugar.


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B-V2,

Sounds like you handled that just fine smile …and well done on NC! Try keeping it that way for now and see what happens.

Many LBH “invents” things that they find very important to address immediately (BTDT) and therefore I believe the 48 hour rule will do you good from hereon.
If you find yourself thinking about contacting W then wait at least 48 hours. If your have to make decisions or statements that include W in anyway then consider doing the same. DBing is counterintuitive and therefore our instincts are often wrong. Sandi2s rules are so easy to read but very hard to follow as you might have learned reading through threads in here. The reason for that is that they work against our instincts.

The WAW is hard to understand and that goes for your W as well! She might be happy, she might not – my belief is that most WAWs go through many of the same feelings as the LBH. The despair, the hurt, the anger and so on but that this is combined with the feeling of relief. The decision they make has been on their minds for a long time and they have not been happy in the R – BD removes that pressure and many WAWs almost seems to celebrate BD for a short time. They announce it to the world, buy new clothes, start going out and just seems plain happy - for a short time. The reality kicks in and other feelings get mixed in with the relief (I am not saying this is what your W is experiencing) So the roller coaster applies here as well as you write.

Bottomline is that you won’t know and it doesn’t matter. What matter here is you working on you! You need to get to a happy place without your W because once there the self-confidence, the smile, the positive outlook and so on will return and that attracts! Many LBHs tries to turn this around by reading about attraction to save time or cut a corner, but it doesn’t work. You need the basics (YOU) set first and you have to be you on an honest foundation. Yes, you can play games (BTDT) but you will fall through and come out false or shifting. You need to be you – maybe a different you but still with a strong foundation in values and beliefs. That is why this takes a long time and at some point you will get the “she is giving you a gift”.

The act as if applies to the above. Act as if you have already found your happy place and then save the tears and grieving for when you are alone. The act as if applies in all your interactions with other people. You can pick a few close friends that you trust and talk with them. My advice would be to either pick zero (and do the talking here) or make sure that the ones you pick have absolutely no contact with your W. Stop talking about your W unless asked. Stop talking about anything that has connection to relationships, divorce or likewise unless asked.

Act happy until you become happy! Act as if your W is never coming back and make yourself the happiest man in that light! Make this about you!
F


Me:44 W:43
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T: 8y - not M
ILYB: 8. Mar 2013
W moved: 1. Aug 2013
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F: thank you very much for again having taken the time to follow up my thread and helping me with all what you have learned, it means more to me than I can ever express here.

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre
B-V2,

Sounds like you handled that just fine smile …and well done on NC! Try keeping it that way for now and see what happens.

Many LBH “invents” things that they find very important to address immediately (BTDT) and therefore I believe the 48 hour rule will do you good from hereon.
If you find yourself thinking about contacting W then wait at least 48 hours. If your have to make decisions or statements that include W in anyway then consider doing the same. DBing is counterintuitive and therefore our instincts are often wrong. Sandi2s rules are so easy to read but very hard to follow as you might have learned reading through threads in here. The reason for that is that they work against our instincts.


Your 48 hour wait rule is a very good one, which I will start applying. And yes: I did slip some days ago exactly like you wrote: " LBH “invents” things that they find very important to address immediately...". cry

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

The WAW is hard to understand and that goes for your W as well! She might be happy, she might not – my belief is that most WAWs go through many of the same feelings as the LBH. The despair, the hurt, the anger and so on but that this is combined with the feeling of relief. The decision they make has been on their minds for a long time and they have not been happy in the R – BD removes that pressure and many WAWs almost seems to celebrate BD for a short time. They announce it to the world, buy new clothes, start going out and just seems plain happy - for a short time. The reality kicks in and other feelings get mixed in with the relief (I am not saying this is what your W is experiencing) So the roller coaster applies here as well as you write.


Very well description of my W and what she has done till date as well, also your bit about "...mixed with relief.". That relief comes also that thus far all has gone as she had in mind and all is more or less done now, apart that the missing me part has not really happened yet for her.
I think as we have been too much stuck in the being very good ex/"friends" mode, as caused by myself, never mind my done NC's and awaiting her initiating contact towards me...

Originally Posted By: Fartiltre

Bottomline is that you won’t know and it doesn’t matter. What matter here is you working on you! You need to get to a happy place without your W because once there the self-confidence, the smile, the positive outlook and so on will return and that attracts! Many LBHs tries to turn this around by reading about attraction to save time or cut a corner, but it doesn’t work. You need the basics (YOU) set first and you have to be you on an honest foundation. Yes, you can play games (BTDT) but you will fall through and come out false or shifting. You need to be you – maybe a different you but still with a strong foundation in values and beliefs. That is why this takes a long time and at some point you will get the “she is giving you a gift”.

The act as if applies to the above. Act as if you have already found your happy place and then save the tears and grieving for when you are alone. The act as if applies in all your interactions with other people. You can pick a few close friends that you trust and talk with them. My advice would be to either pick zero (and do the talking here) or make sure that the ones you pick have absolutely no contact with your W. Stop talking about your W unless asked. Stop talking about anything that has connection to relationships, divorce or likewise unless asked.

Act happy until you become happy! Act as if your W is never coming back and make yourself the happiest man in that light! Make this about you!
F


"Act as if" I have been doing for many months now, and there are some times where I do not feel that it is only "act": that is when my self-confidence, and my genuine real smile + real PMA is really there as I can notice such immediately with interactions with others - and I know that is indeed attractive. More work ongoing by me to really be in that state permanently.

F: please keep your hard earned learning and advices coming, and continue to give it to me straight - that is how I learn and implement fastest.


Me:47 W:45
T:18 M:14
No children
BD: Jun 2014 INILWY and want to divorce
W filed Divorce: Jul 2014
W moved out: Aug 2014
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 28
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OP Offline
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 28
Journaling:

There were some text exchanges on last week Friday with W, as I was obviously too eager to respond (rather than to wait for at least 48 hours) to her positive job hunting results.

Then on Sunday she invited me to join her for a concert in the evening for which she had tickets. As I happen to like the artist, and had ask her if it was her going to be with her friends (whoever that might include) and her reply being that it was just going to be her and me, I decided to go with her.
We had some drinks before, and I listening and validated while looking her in her eyes and we had nice interactions all the time - all smooth and sometimes (old familiar for me) signs of attraction from her side. The concert was good, we both enjoyed it.
On the way back I asked at some moment about going to sleep every evening by oneself (wrong subject, as this might be interpreted in so many wrong ways!), and her response was that I should be used to that now. That made me say a divorce related remark (as in: I am not used to it as I did not wanted her divorcing me), which although perhaps "right" did not add to being "happy" and was totally unnecessary from my part as she already knows that very well. So an awkward ending...

I do not have any illusion at the moment that my W is really missing me at all (i.e. she is not, because I have allowed too many interactions in the last four months) let alone anything beyond that, so back to Fartiltre advice: "act as if your W is never coming back and make yourself the happiest man in that light! Make this about you!"

And so I will.


Me:47 W:45
T:18 M:14
No children
BD: Jun 2014 INILWY and want to divorce
W filed Divorce: Jul 2014
W moved out: Aug 2014
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,160
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Member
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F
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,160
I would take her invitation as a positive or at least a non-negative. She obviously still wants to spend time with you or perhaps you are a plan B – but she doesn’t want you completely out of her life! I also believe that you did right in accepting her invite but try making it a rule that you do not cancel other appointments to be with W and then get your schedule filled with GAL!!

Do not in any way interpret invitations, her helping you with something, her calling you or initiating contact in other ways as anything else than a non-negative! It is not an invitation to R-talk, it is not an invitation to tempchecking – it is nothing but a small thing that you can celebrate internally.

Many LBH takes these small things as something very positive and feels an urge to talk about it with the WAW or they try to change the interaction into a deep talk about something R-related. DON’T!
(You have tried this more than once – stop it! She is the only one from here on that should initiate R-talk and likewise)

Keep the convo light and about matters that can’t be related to R or D in any way. If you remember Sandi2s advice from my thread consider yourself the pleasant, nice and kind neighbor that chitchat’s with other residents in the neighborhood. Your W is the very nosey neighbor that you want to have a decent relation with only because you live door to door. Don’t talk about deep issues, personal matters or anything like it.

Keep up your good work with listening and validating!

If you find the convo part hard (I surely did) then read up on the subject but case is that the more you GAL the easier it will get. GAL is the way to relieve stress, to forget about the sit for a while, to have a meaningful life, to make the most of your time and much more, but GAL-activities also makes good subjects to talk about! Remember that GAL is something you do with other people – not alone!

If you already feel that the act-as-if is turning into to real business then you are doing fine – keep the good work going!

You seem to be doing just fine smile - but journal more often and not only about interactions with W!!
What is going on in your life?
How are those 180s working out for you?
Other GAL activities than Salsa? You mentioned going out – where do you go?
How are the new friendships coming up?
Read you first post again – are you on track?

You don’t need to answer the above Qs – they are just meant as a little inspiration! I will follow you and hopefully a VET will chime in at some point as well


Me:44 W:43
D7, D5 (S11 from other R)

T: 8y - not M
ILYB: 8. Mar 2013
W moved: 1. Aug 2013
LRT: 20. Aug 2013
_______________________________
Do or do not – there’s no try.
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