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A Message from Michele
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Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: Starsky309] #2505419
11/08/14 06:28 AM
11/08/14 06:28 AM
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Posts: 485
Ontario, Canada
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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PeterV2  Offline OP
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Wow! I love it!!!
This is the kind of back and forth discussion the I find invaluable. Starky & GoatGirl, you have great points of view. Equally valid and gender appropriate. I know that women general find porn offensive and men generally say what's the big deal. It is however a very relevant topic and I think the discussion here is very productive.

First of all there are all different flavours of porn. Some is photos of naked women posing for the photographer. I'm sure some are forced into it which I wouldn't approve of, but other women do it because it's easy money and they don't mind the exhibitionism.

Then there's the live sex videos which again, I'm sure some are produced from submission of unwilling women, but there are some produced with willing women who like the money.

I do not like the subjugation of a woman's right to self determination in order for others to profit from the resulting productions, however when the women are freely participating for commercial benefit, then I see nothing wrong with the resulting productions.

The problem is how to distinguish the two. Usually you can tell, although I'm sure some subjugated women act well enough to fool the viewer into thinking it's consensual.

The abusive porn is loathsome in my opinion. The consensual porn is titillating.

However, that being said, the fact that my W disapproved of me viewing any type of porn draws me to the conclusion that I should divest of any incursions into that realm. Until I do, my W will have a problem with it.

I can't quite wrap my head around the fact that if we're viewing it together it's ok but if I'm viewing it without her it's not. Can someone of the opposite sex help me out with that one?

Last edited by PeterV2; 11/08/14 06:29 AM.

M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: PeterV2] #2505435
11/08/14 01:07 PM
11/08/14 01:07 PM
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Maybell Offline
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Because if you do it together it's an activity that draws you closer and enhances your connection. Also, she gets pleasure from knowing you chose her and not the porn star. When you do it by yourself it's like saying the connection she feels with you during sex is unimportant and all you want is jollies with any anonymous body. It demeans the sharing of her body and also causes her to question why you'd want to spend time with an anonymous naked female when you could have her. And it feeds the insecurities most women have about their bodies.

Last edited by Maybell; 11/08/14 01:09 PM.

Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: Maybell] #2505501
11/08/14 03:55 PM
11/08/14 03:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Ontario, Canada
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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Ok Maybell I see your point. Well put.

The thing is what about when I can't have her. Like now - she won't let me touch her - hasn't for over a year (except a couple of slip ups).

I guess it's all the same. Even if I can't have her right now, I should save myself and not do it. Only once I can say I don't look at porn anymore would I be worthy of her acceptance and only then would be worthy of consideration for reconciliation.

I know even if our M ends in D, this would be a problem in any future relationship, as it seems the female view of it is fairly consistent across the board.

So I should honour myself and honour her and our M and do what's right for us. Because we need to build the "us" and having that issue overshadowing us is not just counterproductive but downright fatal to the M.

My W is absolutely beautiful and turns me on - always has. That's never been an issue. It's just I'm the HD S and she's the LD. About 3 years ago she asked me how often we should ML. I said daily - she thought that was too much - so we agreed on at least twice a week. That was too infrequent for me but I figured take what you can get and be happy with that.

But now it's never. I hope one day to get back to that point of twice weekly, but until I fix myself and grow that goal will be unattainable it seems.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: PeterV2] #2505513
11/08/14 04:23 PM
11/08/14 04:23 PM
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Maybell Offline
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I don't know what to tell you about what to do while you're not on that footing with one another. I will say, I would have had quite a lot more sex with my H if I'd felt closer and more desired by him. I'm not saying you're guilty of failing in that area -- though her complaints about the porn use suggest that impacted her sense of being desirable. But I'll tell you, the only time I felt like my H might actually desire my body was when he complained that I wouldn't let him see me naked. (I'd gained a lot of weight after my third child and felt really ugly. Didn't want him to notice.) it never occurred to me that he actually found me attractive when I felt so unattractive.

Take that for what it's worth.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: Maybell] #2505566
11/08/14 06:59 PM
11/08/14 06:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Ontario, Canada
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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My W too has gain a bit of weight however I still find her stunning naked. It's not really an issue with me. However she is very self-conscious about it. I think women's self-images are much more fragile and linked closely to self-esteem and self-love issues. By me looking at skinny young women it would make her feel demeaned by comparison - not that I would ever be comparing her. She's flesh & blood right in front of me and there's a whole lot more to love making than intercourse.

I always wanted to take it slow and pleasure her, as that would stimulate me, but she would get impatient and jump me. Not that I didn't mind, but when she complains now that I always went straight for sex it feels like a bit of a disconnect from the past reality - more rewriting of history, which is script.

Yes, as you said, my viewing of porn did make her feel less desirable, even though I desired her no less because of it, but there's no point trying to convince her otherwise. That just dismisses her feelings. I need to validate her feelings: my viewing of porn must have made you feel undesirable and that must have hurt.

Last edited by PeterV2; 11/08/14 07:00 PM.

M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: PeterV2] #2505609
11/08/14 09:31 PM
11/08/14 09:31 PM
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Jefe Offline
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"But I'll tell you, the only time I felt like my H might actually desire my body was when he complained that I wouldn't let him see me naked. (I'd gained a lot of weight after my third child and felt really ugly. Didn't want him to notice.) it never occurred to me that he actually found me attractive when I felt so unattractive. "

I could have done a better job sharing it with my wife, but ditto with her and child bearing weight gain. I think she is absolutely beautiful even more so naked.

"Yes, as you said, my viewing of porn did make her feel less desirable, even though I desired her no less because of it, but there's no point trying to convince her otherwise. That just dismisses her feelings. I need to validate her feelings: my viewing of porn must have made you feel undesirable and that must have hurt."

Absolutely. My wife made it clear too.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: Jefe] #2505895
11/10/14 02:23 AM
11/10/14 02:23 AM
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Posts: 485
Ontario, Canada
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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My W was having a girls night at the RH last night in her suite and I had worked the afternoon shift, so when I was done at 9pm I said goodbye & left. Went home, then went out to hear some jazz.
Today I told my W I went to the jazz club last night (it was one hour) and she got extremely angry. Must be nice to be able to go out whenever you want. I should have asked her if I needed her permission but I didn't want to be sarcastic.

I worked the pm shift again today and when I got home she texts me: where are going out tonight? I just said nowhere.

My MC told me to GAL, go out to the jazz club. I should have just told my W it was doctor's orders. But I told her once the RH is sold she'll be free to do as she pleases.

She's still angry. Not much I can do about it. I guess I could say to her, I see how frustrated you are with your being tied down to your job and not being able to be spontaneous. I know it's hard...

Last edited by PeterV2; 11/10/14 02:24 AM.

M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: PeterV2] #2505901
11/10/14 02:31 AM
11/10/14 02:31 AM
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unbidden Offline
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Why would you apologize? You didn't do anything wrong. Be detached and confidant. Let her worry that you're moving on.

Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: PeterV2] #2506014
11/10/14 03:20 PM
11/10/14 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
Florida
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Starsky309 Offline
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Florida
Originally Posted By: PeterV2


She's still angry. Not much I can do about it. I guess I could say to her, I see how frustrated you are with your being tied down to your job and not being able to be spontaneous. I know it's hard...


I wouldn't. You didn't do anything wrong or inappropriate, and supplicating isn't very attractive. When you screw up -- own it, but in this case you were GAL'ing like you were supposed to. At best, this is a "I'm sorry you feel that way" situation.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
Re: Continuing DBing after the affair [Re: Starsky309] #2506036
11/10/14 04:13 PM
11/10/14 04:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 485
Ontario, Canada
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PeterV2 Offline OP
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Yeah, she's furious at me. She's telling me to move out of the house once the RH closes. She said she's going to move me out.

She sent me a text saying I'm full of secrets and games. I denied it but she replied that that's a typical response. She thinks I went to the jazz club to pick up women. I told her I just like to listen to jazz live. She said I wouldn't have told her about my trip to the jazz club if I hadn't lost my keys and jacket there.

This fury is hard to take.


M: 59 W: 53
M: 9 yrs
T: 14 yrs
No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine)
W moved out 11/18/2013
D-Day 12/14/2013
W moved back home 12/1/2014
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