I'm the LD in my R. I've just received and read through most of the SSM.
At first, I have to admit, that I was pissed. It seemed to me that all the 'solutions' are there to make the LD spouse(me) more like the HD spouse (him). But then I kept reading and saw some of the solutions for the HD spouse.
The mistake I made was that I spoke with him last night about some of those solutions, instead of waiting for him to read the book. The one I like is 'back off' and we kind of got into being defensive and ended the convo, not on a great note. I was trying to explain that 'backing off' w/out expectation vs backing off with hopes that i'll jump him are two very different animals! I need to be patient and wait for him to read the book.
Anyway...how can I assure him that it is not HIM that I am rejecting, but the sex itself? I understand that when I turn him down, it cuts like a knife into his ego/self esteem, but I need for him to understand that I do love him very much and I'm just not in a sexual mood.
I do give him massages, and caress him...in my opinion we are very intimate...stealing kisses, winking across the room, a caress as we pass in the hall or kitchen, etc. But I don't want every touch to turn into a sex session. Yes, I have expressed this to him, and he seems to hear it...until the next time I caress him or what-have-you.
The other issue I have with having sex with him is that it takes soooo long for him to finish. Some of that is due to his ED (which we use meds for) and some is just him 'enjoying the moment' and purposely making it 'last longer.' I don't want to ML for hours on end!
Anyway...I'm here as I do not wish for sex to be the demise of my marriage. We've been together 13 years and were just married last year. We are going to a MC and we do have pretty open/honest communication (although he tends to interupt and speak over me .. but that's a whole other issue).
a little about me/my signature...I have birthed no children of my own, however still have a fabulous and close relationship with my ex husband's daughter (xsd in sig). My present husband has two daughters, one has two daughters herself (which makes me a grandmother! awesome!) and his eldest daughter, sadly, had a still born baby girl this past June. Her and I are very close and I spent a couple weeks w/her over the summer to assist her thru grieving and healing (we damned near lost her too). His youngest and I get along when she wants to. Their mother is incapable of being in their lives. Sad, but true. I am honored to be the Bonus Mom to all three of these girls.
so that's me and my sitch...any words of wisdom (or just words) are greatly appreciated!
So since you have read SSM you know that the LD person is the one that CONTROLS the frequency of a SSM.
When you reject him is their anything else that you can DO? A marriage is 50/50 and you need to put 100% into your half of the marriage. How are you doing that? Do you know what your love language is? Do you know what his love language is? I am sure that the two of you are speaking different languages.
Have you read the DR book?
What other 180's can you make?
Men are very sexual animals and when we pursue and woman distance, which is the way it normally works, it can be very frustrating for a man.
Emotionally women pursue and men distance. I am sure that is just as frustrating for a woman.
When you reject him is their anything else that you can DO?
Sometimes...I am open to caressing him,a massage maybe, sometimes i even assist in his masterbation, but other times I just want NOTHING to do with ANY sexual activity. So when he suggests things like "if you're not in the mood, you could just give me a bj"...THAT doesn't go over so well.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
A marriage is 50/50 and you need to put 100% into your half of the marriage. How are you doing that?
I try to compromise (see above answer) and I will admit I get a bit resentful because I feel like I'm the only one who gives in (i know this is not true, its how i feel at times).
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Do you know what your love language is?
it's been a while since we read the book, but i'm pretty sure mine is words of affirmation. He's an engineer and no matter what, he always has to tell me how i could have done something better, etc. I would LOVE to hear "that was great" end of story, no 'that was great, but you could have...'
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Do you know what his love language is?
his is pretty much the same...and he'd like more appreciation for all that he does do.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
I am sure that the two of you are speaking different languages.
yes, sometimes it seems we come from different planets...oh wait! we do! hahaha
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Have you read the DR book?
didn't think we needed it
Originally Posted By: Cadet
What other 180's can you make?
a crap-ton of them. LOL. I know there is a lot *I* can and need to do to help things change in my R...I really need to get over my stubbornness. I get stuck in the thought that *I* am the only one trying to change things...and I can say that in reality, I am not...not really changing things and certainly not the only one. He tries too. I think we both need more patience in this as well...he might try something different, but if he see's no immediate result, it's back to the same old stuff that doesn't work...and same with me.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Men are very sexual animals and when we pursue and woman distance, which is the way it normally works, it can be very frustrating for a man.
this fact frustrates me. why does everything have to be about sex? and that's where i get stuck...in that type of thinking.
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Emotionally women pursue and men distance. I am sure that is just as frustrating for a woman.
yeah...i want affection, not sex. He see's them as the same thing...
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Keep Posting and learning
that's my plan, man
Thanks Cadet, for responding to my first post. I think my thoughts are scattered and probably will be for the first few posts. I've been reading the forums on here for a few days before signing up...and i see that a 2x4 comes out every now and again...i know it's gonna piss me off when it hits me in the head...but later, when i really see after that whack, i'll be glad I got it.
Cadet has good feedback and questions, especially his first point on your total control over the frequency.
As an HD in an SSM, my perspective is the "back-off" approach is a double-edged sword. On one hand, if I don't back off I irritate the heck out of my LD W and push her even further away. On the other hand, when I do back off, she is happy about it and thinks everything is great with us. All the while, I am growing more and more frustrated that nothing is happening from me backing off. This usually ends up with me getting rejected yet again and pushing away from her out of extreme frustration.
And, no matter how much you tell him it is not him but the sex that you are rejecting, if he is like me it won't matter. After all, I am not asking my wife to scrub the floors or pick up after our dog, I am asking her to ML to the man she (supposedly) loves, why wouldn't you want to do that if you were attracted to your H? These are the thoughts that go through my head when I get rejected.
The other thought is how selfish it is. After all, this is part of being married, I am busting my rear to provide for our family, and after we ML things are even better between us. So, what a selfish thing to say no just because you don't feel like it! These thoughts, especially when not expressed, build up and cause great resentment on my part (again, not speaking for your H).
Can't speak to the issue of lasting too long, my experience in in our SSM is infrequency leads to the other end of the spectrum .
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Thanks Charlie Brown...I appreciate hearing the POV from an HD H, it helps.
I did respond to Cadet's questions...but they haven't shown up yet.
I was thinking last night about 180's. And I think I found one that I can do.
Typically when he pulls away like this in all areas (avoiding me) I get a 'tude...I feel like he's avoiding/ignoring me because if he can't have sex, he doesn't want anything to do with me. And then that creates a snowball effect...I pull into myself further, he pulls into himself (thinking that the 'backing off' isn't working) etc.
I had a thought though...if i see this as him backing off rather than going dark, and I take the initiative and make the first move to ML, maybe, just maybe, next time instead of going dark, he'll simply back off sexually. I don't want him to avoid me or ignore me. When I say "back off"...I want the affection, just not the (what I feel is constant) sexual advances. a hug or snuggle without expectation would be nice. And my thinking is that when he is avoiding me (and i feel attitude from him) that i'm not going to 'reward' him with sex. I need to change my thinking and go ahead and 'just do it' and ML with him...taking the initiative...and see what happens. The worst that could happen is we have orgasms and he gets a good night's sleep!
so my plan is to wear some sexy jammies tonigt and make a move...whether I'm 'in the mood' or not.
Hi Amber. Allow me to commend you for wanting to work out this issue and preserve your marriage!
Have you read the section of SSM that talks about the reasons some are not interested in sex? Do you know what your reasons are? I realize that for many LD people, the reason(s) don’t matter. They just aren’t interested, and don’t see any need to be! But since you’re here, and read Michele’s book, I’m assuming you understand the importance of having satisfying physical intimacy in a marriage.
Sure, H needs to read the book and adjust his behavior and expectations, but I believe the key to success will be you finding a way to satisfy his needs/desires in a manner that works for you. Try to think along those lines.
Like Cadet wisely pointed out, you are the one in charge of the program (or lack of program) here.
My W was always LD in our M. Many years back, I read “Light Her Fire” and followed the advice to romance my W as a way to drum up interest. It didn’t help much. We had many tense periods because of our mismatched Desire.
Eventually, W stepped up and I relaxed expectations, seemingly at the same time. She agreed to, and initiated, regular Quickies, which were only done for my (sexual) benefit. I quit pestering her for more. I also learned that having occasional long sensual sessions were more satisfying, and would “hold me” for longer. It also gave me something to fantasize about the times I was solo, which a HD person should figure on doing at times.
I hope this helps!
Last edited by ForeverYoung; 09/25/1403:12 PM.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
One note about him withdrawing. What you are describing, our MC has described as our waltz. In our case, when my W rejects, my instinct is to get mad and want to tell her. But, I know that is counterproductive. So I shove my anger down deep and try to process it. For me, I can't pretend I am not unhappy and have a normal conversation, so instead I will usually not say much and retreat to the computer to surf the internet or play a game. Her read on that is that I am "pouting" or "being a baby" because she said no, but in reality, I am trying to process real emotions without causing a bigger issue. But either way, the result is her getting more irritated and less likely to want sex.
Cadet's love language question is a good one. For me, it is physical affection with a bit of verbal and gifts, for her it is acts of service. So, when she says no, to me it is her saying she doesn't really love me.
One question I have never gotten a good answer with my W is, if you know how to "fix" this issue (make sure you are having sex more often, which not only is what he wants but is shown to usually increase your satisfaction and desire as well), then why not do it? It is like knowing you need to lose weight to save you marriage and still eating pizza and ice cream, right? Except in this case instead of having to eat celery all day you get to have lots of sex? Why wouldn't you want to do this???
My theory with my W is that this has become "her thing" just like me wanting more is "mine". But why I still don't understand, I would be interested in your thoughts, might help me understand better.
I like your idea for tonight, have some fun with it! Looking forward to hearing how it goes.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
thank you all for your input. CB, i really appreciate hearing your pov on this...as you seem to be much like my H. He also processes his emotions of rejection and I tend to believe he's 'just pouting'
so...last night... I got home from work and did my thing with the dog (we play frisbee after work). Then I sat down with my H and asked him if he was 'in a funk' the past couple of days because of our convo Monday or due to work. He said it was our convo...apparently some things were said that made him feel bad/down, etc. He did not wish to rehash it, said he needed to process. I told him that I was rather randy and asked if he wanted to go get naked and see what happens. He didn't necessarily believe me or that I was really in the mood as he thought I was just faking it. I assured him I was not. we had some good wine and convo and then went into the bedroom where I showed him that I wasn't faking. However, after nearly 3 hours without him having release, I was exhausted and frustrated and pretty sore...so we went to sleep...I did anyway, I doubt he slept much (he has insomnia issues)...got up this morning and he was on the couch...so I asked if he wanted to finish what we started...again, nearly an hour and still no release for him! I had to stop to get ready for work (he has off today)... I feel like a failure. I can't give my own H any release! I tried, I did all the things he likes and he did all the things I like. but no release for him!
His original attitude after work yesterday (not believing me) would normaly have me give up and walk away, but my 180 there was that I persisted. I can't blame him for having a negative attitude when I suggested we continue in the middle of the night when a certain part of his anatomy is wide awake. I've pushed him away too many times for him to believe I would let it happen at 4am. That will just take time and repeated acts of not pushing him away.
I just feel so frustrated that after so many hours of fooling around/ML, he didn't finish. I get angry. I get resentful because here I am putting myself out there for something I have to push myself to want and then it fails.
ForeverYoung, yes I have read that part of the book and you're right, I don't necessarily see it as anything being 'wrong' I'm just not a high desire person. I don't know (and don't much care) the reason why that is, it just is. At times I think, I accept it, why can't he? On the other hand, I think I'm a bit backwords...once I am stimulated, then I have the desire and arousal, etc. So, I do like it once it starts, it's the starting that I have trouble with. I'm working on just letting it happen, rather than rejecting the idea off the cuff. I guess you could say I try to follow the Nike advice and "just do it".
Like I said, he is off today and had mentioned that he needs/wants to read the book so he can get a better understanding of my pov. Perhaps he'll start reading today. I just need to be patient and let him read at his own pace.
Again, thank you all for your words of wisdom and experience. I appreciate and I'm sure my H does too
One question I have never gotten a good answer with my W is, if you know how to "fix" this issue (make sure you are having sex more often, which not only is what he wants but is shown to usually increase your satisfaction and desire as well), then why not do it? It is like knowing you need to lose weight to save you marriage and still eating pizza and ice cream, right? Except in this case instead of having to eat celery all day you get to have lots of sex? Why wouldn't you want to do this???
My theory with my W is that this has become "her thing" just like me wanting more is "mine". But why I still don't understand, I would be interested in your thoughts, might help me understand better.
CB
That's a good question CB and I really can't answer it. We also need to lose weight and know we need to, but we don't do anything about it...except buy more cookies! I also know very well that if I consume less carbs my pmdd (think extreme pms) isn't as bad and I don't get as moody, depressed, etc. You would think that I would stay away from carbs! I even KNOW I feel better physically and mentally when I do, but I still get sucked back into carb snacking/overload. These, I think, are things that each individual needs to process and figure out. Sorry I don't have an answer...but thanks for making me think more on it.
