I can be the lighthouse but not the tugboat

[daring]

OK, apparently in the DB website update my new thread got deleted.

Restarting it....
This statement resonates with me right now- I can be the lighthouse but I'm not jumping into the water to drag him back to shore. I'm standing and strong, but her has to make the journey himself to get to me.

Here's the links to thread 1 and 2

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2445162#Post2445162

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2489637&page=1

Brief synopsis of my sitch:

Me 40, H 39 4 kids: s19, s16, d13, s7

High school sweethearts, married 20 years
Since about 2010 knew " something wasn't right" with H. Became moody and very different personality. Started buying lots of motorized toys, having an EA with our friend/neighbor. In late 2012 told me he wasn't sure our marriage was going to work- said he was " deprioritized" and I wasn't meeting his needs. I do have a very demanding job and was building a new practice during all this so I tried to change as much as I could and work on things that I knew were issues ( including a somewhat SSM for years). Nothing I did seemed to be enough. Then in Sept 2013 he told me he was seeking out a divorce. I was shocked. Despite all our issues- I didn't expect him to do that. Found DB/DR 3 days later and realized this is MLC.
He moved out Oct 1 and filed Oct 10. Hasn't done anything more with it but who knows.
Moved back in Jan 17 because he was suicidal. Got on AD, going to IC but still not sure about relationship. Moved back out early May saying he just felt he needed to move forward with the divorce in order to get through everything. Hasn't moved forward on that yet, and I am just trying to drop the rope and Gal.
We have a good friendship right now and are good coparents. I see baby steps, but recent events have opened my eyes this is going to be a very long journey and I'm not reading every positive as a sign he's coming back. Slowly getting myself off the roller coaster.


So as I said when I started this thread before- the last few sentences above are as true today as they were when I started my last thread. Every so often a big event happens to remind me this is a marathon......

And thanks to the 3 of you who commented before my thread disappeared- I'm glad you liked the title!

[2BHappy]

I was on of them, LOVE this title

be the guiding light, the strong light cutting thru the fog. BUT do not jump in the water and drag them in.

[daring]

Thanks 2B!
I seem to be hitting a new phase of the LBS cycle and process- there is more anger lately, though I know that will pass. But there's also more of a " I am getting really tired of this and I have no interest in spending concentrated time with you right now as I deserve better".

I'm not ready to throw in the towel, or to date or anything else. But lately I'm just feeling different.
He showed me his new apt this past weekend and I was really annoyed. It was clean and tidy and not filled with the mess or the beauty of 20 years of family living. That really struck me for some reason and I didn't want to be there. I said I was going to head out and he kept saying " you don't have to leave, you can stay" like he really wanted me there. ( kids are staying with him his week too). But I didn't want to stay. Previously I would look for any opportunity to interact or demonstrated my 180s but nope- I just wanted some peace and alone time.
This week he has tried out some suggestive flirting, and I'm just not interested in that either. Before I would want to be sure I responded and or even ML to try and keep the connection going but right now I have no interest. And I'm ok with it. And I'm not worried about his reaction.
I seem to be cycling between a couple days of emotional mess and the new levels of detachment. I'm enjoying the quiet time right now.

I also just learned that a dear friend is going through the same thing. She knew about my sitch and wanted to talk Tonight since she knew I would understand. We are going to plan some girl trips that will be good for both of us.
I can see how far I've come I talking with her- I don't wish this on anyone but I've grown in the process. Staying focused on the positives and on ME!!

[daring]

So I am having a particularly difficult week. I'm in call and have the viral respiratory crud so that doesn't help- but it's more than that.

Like a few others on this board I am downright angry at my H and really do not want to see or talk to him right now.

The following is various journaling I have done today:

Texts with S19 today got tense about whether we should have open access to all his college records before paying anymore tuition. H tried to tell him- give us access or no money ( ok nevermind I am footing the bill for all the kids expenses b/c he has no job- but he did buy the iphone6 and a new rug for his apt). I texted H I disagreed with his approach and please talk to me before we end up on opposite sides of this. When H called and I was explaining my point, and saying S19 gave the transcripts and tuition screenshots he said "we " is missing someone- I didn't see them. ( I told him about them though) As we talked more and I said he's an adult he H jumping on me about ok then let him pay his car payment ( I make sure that's on time b/c I'm a cosigner and need to maintain my credit). and let him be stubborn and have to stop college.
I pushed back and said no. And then he was focusing on related issues. I said you're deflecting and he said no- two separate issues and I said you know what- I did tell you about his transcripts and if I didn't forward them to you I'm sorry but you weren't exactly very involved at that time. I was teary but tried not to be. H stopped and said I'm sorry, I didn't mean to attack you.
I said fine lets talk this weekend.

Then came texts as follows:
H: Thank you for bringing it up. I'm sorry I hurt you
Me: Thank you. I sent you the email.
H: Your mad at me for standing firm on this and im upset at the opposite. Either way. He is doing shitty at school and with his health. We need to get more involved in every way we can. Maybe I'm over stressing sure but this important and maybe our last opportunity to help him get this [censored] right.im sorry I'm handling this wrong with you.
Me: I'm not mad- it's just not the approach I would take and I don't want to be boxed in a corner. And we have talked about his grades and if there is a repeat he will not continue to go there (at least without paying himself), he can go to community college.
I agree about his health etc. but encouragement and modeling are all we have at this point. I have learned I cannot control anyone but myself.

No more texts after that.


So my final assessment..... This is about H and what he feels he failed at and needs to catch up on and what he sees in himself as a lack of guidance growing up.
My anger/hurt feelings- you chose to walk away from this ( had to, needed to, wanted to WTF ever). I am doing the best I can to take care of them. You're off spending your money on yourself and I'm paying for all of this- so you know what? No you don't get as much say and you f'n made that choice. So continue to be involved yes and we can disagree but without me you can't take care of all these kids and you don't get to manhandle the decisions.
And while you're at it- why don't you realize that you're trying to be like S19and start your life over as a responsible teenager and think he should do the same. But you're 40.

Then this was my journaling tonight:
I grow more annoyed each day with the lack of insight.
Topic of friend going through her husband leaving came up. H asked if she was going to be ok. I said don't know, I don't think anyone knows if they are ever going to be ok in the situation.
He says "oh you are more than ok." With a bit of a come on tone. Really? F'n idiot again. ( no I did not say that part) I said not really-some days I am some days I'm not. It's not a very pleasant existence. He says I'm sorry if it's uncomfortable to talk about. I said its not that it's uncomfortable, it's just you don't seem to have an accurate assessment of the impact based on your comments.
Crickets......
Then we talked about the how a gun that he ordered forever ago finally came in that got stolen out of his truck. I asked how much it cost and he told me when he ordered it two years ago it was $3000. ( purchased during the thick of replay of course) I feel like he used my money for a couple years to buy all his f'n toys and then walks out when he's got him.
Then on way driving around he mentions how he was supposed to go to dinner tonight with colleague and his wife and bring S7. F you again- I don't want to hear about your dinners with people who value marriage.
At least I got a thank you for driving him around to get things he needed since his truck is going to the shop for window repair and glass removal.

I know this is a long post, and it's mostly venting. I just seem to be so angry and annoyed by him right now.

Is this part of the journey to detachment? Because I don't like anger but I sure seem to need to allow myself to feel it and process it.....

[Shining]

daring, I'm sorry you're having a difficult week. Kinda saw that coming last weekend, I remember. I hope it finishes smoothly for you.

Ok, let me tell you everything you want to know about detaching.....lol....NOT.

I agree with you from Mighty's and my threads... We all seem to be at similar emotional places.

And, dang....I feel you....the MLCer's overall lack of awareness of others' feelings. It's strange, the way they just can't see certain things.

Even more strange when they would have seen that very thing in the past.....but now they can't.

I know the anger is normal, as part of the grief....and it will cycle with every other emotion.

I demonstrated that ride tonight.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi daring! I'm sorry you are having a tough time as of late. Yes, it's ok to feel angry at H and your sitch. Who wouldn't?

One thing I'm hearing, is that being the one making all the money is causing resentment in you. It's understandable that you might feel this way, but not helpful in a marriage, you know? Think "Team". I know you feel he might not deserve that right now, and I would kind of agree, but the hope is that someday he will, and will be grateful to you for giving him time to figure his stuff out.

"H stopped and said I'm sorry, I didn't mean to attack you."

See... stuff like this is uncommon from most MLC spouses around here. Focus on the positives, daring. The Big Picture. You knew this would take time, right?

[2BHappy]

Daring,

Try to get out to GAL this weekend, when I'm down about this mess, I have to find a way to have a GAL to make sure to not sit in the negative mindset for too long.

I feel like throwing some truth dart this weekend at my H, but since a week ago I told H that this was not working for me, I will hold my tongue for a while, focus on Me and our son.

[daring]

Thanks Shining, FY and 2B for the support and perspective. It really helps.

Shining I'm going to try and hop on your ride and cycle out the anger as I don't like it! I don't want to suppress it either thiugh as that will just prolong this cycle.

FY- yes there are positives. He is trying to notice my feelings. His mean part of MLC happened before BD in 2010-2012. I am very thankful that is not the case now and will try to focus on that.
As far as the resentment- you are right but it's not actually about the kids expenses. I'm good with that though I think the other issue I'm upset about is spilling over....
In the thick of his MLC H didn't file our taxes, for 3 years! Then in 2012 he started his company. The set up of it resulted in much more of a tax burden then expected. It's all coming back to bite us now. We owe hundreds of thousands due to accumulated fees and penalties and are close to having wages garnished and stuff taken.
I have a lawyer and have been working diligently to decrease expenses and save money to pay towards it. H is going to pull some money from his company that is a joint shareholder account to pay down the tax burden but I will have to pay that back ( as I'm the only one with the means for now). I'm frustrated that he's out buying stuff and I'm working on not changing our kids lifestyle but still paying this off. I know he feels bad about not being able to contribute based on comments sometimes but then he goes out and gets stuff thats not absolutely necessary. So I need to figure out how to let that go- I know it only hurts me in the long run to feel this way. And thus far I have managed to not be nasty about it to H- all those cuss words are only in my head and on here for now

2B I agree I need some GAL time! I'm still on call this weekend but hoping I can do something fun one of the days.
I also have fantasies of a DB meetup where we can all GAL for a weekend!!!

[2BHappy]

Just a tip you might already know.
When feeling anger, pray 1st then talk to H 2nd.

I just did reverse,,,not the best. But I did apologize to H, cause I could have said what I said in a different way with a peaceful kind heart.

[daring]

2b I may know it but can always use the reminder because knowing doesn't always translate into doing!
I had slipped in my prayer time and really need to get back to it.


So in other news my sitch takes the craziest turns!!!! Yesterday morning after writing here with you all and praying ( thanks again 2B) I was feeling a bit calmer. Anger dissipated.
While getting S7 ready for school he realized he left his uniform shoes at dads house so we had to stop over there on way to school.
H brought the shoes to the door in his underwear- which caught me off guard as he looked HOT and I was a little stirred up. Whew!!
I also had to ask him to take S16 to the doctor b/c he pulled a muscle and couldn't move his neck. Thankfully H does not work full time right now so while nanny is on vacation he has been doing lots of the errands and kids appts. ( thinking team FY )
So he was texting me quite a bit throughout the day about kids etc. He also texted me that money was in our account from his business to pay taxes and he's sorry if he got weird about it all- he was just trying to be a grown up about his finances. Wow- that was nice.
So then when I got home he asked if I needed anything and gave me a hug before he left for the night. I tried to let go first but he kept holding and rubbing my side. Then he headed out.
So last night at about 135 AM our house alarm goes off. Scared the bejesus out of me and the kids. Still can't find the cause as no break in attempted. D13 called H while I was trying to get the alarm silenced and he came right over.
Joked with me that if I wanted him to sleep with me I didn't have to go to such lengths. I laughed but didn't say anything.
Then after checking out house he hugged and held me b/c I was freaked out.
One snuggle led to another and well..... In 48hrs I go fom wanting to yell at him to ML.

I'm not sure if this is the pursuit and distance dance or him trying to recognize that I'm stressed and he needs to help more.

It was a nice moment, I enjoyed it, I don't feel used. Now I just have to realize to expect nothing other than maybe God will set off more alarms to bring those moments together

[Shining]

I'm not sure if this is the pursuit and distance dance or him trying to recognize that I'm stressed and he needs to help more.

Yyyyuupppp. ^^^^ I see you've been taking dance lessons in my class.


I'm glad to hear he's making efforts t be a "grown up" with the finances. I don't recall whether yours was a spender....might be good to make sure what he said matches what he did in the bank account?

And yeah....why do they have to have moments of underwear hotness....that's not very nice.

Glad you didn't have expectations after the night together. I love the image you described of God setting off more alarms.

[2BHappy]

ML or having sex can stir up ALOT of feelings, it's hard to pull back afterwards and not expect more, sometimes its easy sometimes very hard.

Just be careful with your expectations the next couple of days,,,

Check out my post on how I reacted after a hot night of sex, dumb me expecting kisses in public the next day acted like it was my 1st time, then had a tantrum when it did not go my way.

BUT on the other hand, glad you enjoy yourself:)

[daring]

Yeah Shining- I do love to dance! But preferably not in this situation....
The underwear hotness caught me off guard which made it so much more effective d@mnit!
As far as the finances- he really did do it and I have paid it towards our back taxes already. Then one of our accounts went low today due to an unexpected payment and he put in money from his own account to cover it. I was shocked- told him I would give it right back. ( especially since he has no job right now). He said it's ok, he just got paid for extensive conference speaking engagements and is able to cover rent and his expenses right now. I said ok and let him do it- he seems to need to feel like he's contributing. ( or he found this site and read my money rant!)
2b I read what happened with you- I'm so sorry that is such an awful feeling. I know I have to be careful, but on the other hand my H's love language is majorly physical touch and definitely sex is the highest on that list. The first several years of MLC it was clearly about sex- he behaved completely differently. But the last few months I've noticed there is serious emotional connection. There is also eye contact and they don't look " empty".
This was also an area of issue for us and part of my 180 has been to be more receptive. That said I also reserve the option to say no or stop at any time- and I have done that sometimes. I figure I'm experimenting and monitoring response....

In general it was a pretty decent weekend. I tried to keep my expectations at zero and let him be on Sat. He took our daughter to her counseling appt in AM and then went and did his own thing for most of day.
Texted me in afternoon to see if I wanted to do something fun with the kids- I said sure and we went to play place and then the mall. Was low key but fun.
This AM H texted me and asked if it was ok if he came to my house to work for the day ( he's building a new company). That's a new one compared to last several weeks when he was mostly doing is own thing- I said sure.
Today I felt really crummy- I'm getting over a virus and now it feels like it might be going into bronchitis or pneumonia. I walked over to where he was working to let him know I was going to run to grocery store and he said you sound terrible- why don't you go rest. I said no it's ok I can go. He insisted and said send me a list.

He grocery shopped, changed out all batteries on smoke alarms since we think that might be what keeps setting off the alarm, changed out all air filters and went and picked up take out for dinner for us all. Wow!
And in he midst of all that we had a conversation with S19 about college stuff ( H and I disagree on the approach to this) and while it was tense we got through it and I stood my ground.
Later he texted me saying he was sorry for being negative about it all, told me I didn't say or do anything wrong and didn't deserve him to react that way. I said thank you but also said I understand and validated his feelings.
So I'm looking at the positives. Last week he seemed to have no insight- this week there's lots of insight and he was incredibly helpful. It was nice.

[daring]

Teeter tottering back to some anger again. I hate seeing my kids hurting b/c of this sitch. D13 is just an emotional mess which leads to adolescence on steroids behavior. H was dealing with her today but was very frustrated ( rightfully so) and set reasonable boundaries. I can see her hurting, and I remember being that little girl too so it triggers similar issues for me ( yep- my chit to work through).
I told him ( nicely) that it's hardfor me to see this happening with the kids and I get angry. He said you're at the front of the line of people angry with me but it's better than the alternative, which he described as us constantly angry with each other. Huh??? Must be MLC logic.
Later he walked up to me and said " I'm sorry, I'm listening and I know this is hard on everyone, especially D13". He said he doesn't want to be the bad guy forever either, and that he's trying. <<< not sure what this last part means but his stopping and thinking and trying to respond in a healthy way was refreshing.

I know the MLC spouse is hurting and can't handle others' ( especially LBS) hurt, but what about the innocent kids in all of this? I really have the hardest time DBing and being understanding with H when they are hurting.

Writing helps. It makes me work through the anger. And it makes me think about the pain I see in my kids and have compassion for H since I know his journey is much like an adult version of adolescence with wounds long forgotten but needing to be dealt with.

Sigh

[daring]

Quick update- MLC land has been calmer in the last day or so ( I'll take what I can get).
H stayed home yesterday with D13 since she was sick and they had some good quality time together. He also watched the kids last night as I had a work dinner.

Yesterday when I got home he could tell I wasn't feeling well ( looks like my virus has gone into pneumonia- uggh). He asked if I needed anything and said make sure you rest.
He checked in on me this morning before taking the kids to school as I was having coughing fits and he wanted to be sure I would get evaluated by my own doc today.
I did go in to be seen with the result presumed pneumonia. He had asked if I would be home in evening with kids as he needed to run errands. I texted him to say I would be home as I was leaving work early to pick up meds and rest.
He immediately texted- how can I help?
I asked him to just pick up kids as planned and if he had time to pick up dog food.
After running errands he came back by and took kids to get them things they needed for school and packed S8s lunch. He was really really helpful.
He kept checking on me to see if I needed anything. He really seemed like he wanted to help. Right before leaving for the night he asked again and said " are you sure? How about tea with honey?" I said that did sound good so he made it for me. Then headed out for the night.

I don't know if this is guilt or part of the dance but it seems pretty genuine. I'm appreciative and make sure I let him know how helpful he is being but don't ask for anything more.

[mleigh4]

Hi daring. Isn't it hard when H is so nice? I have a very nice MLCer too. Always friendly and helpful. I have the same reaction as you. Is it genuine or guilt? I can't figure it out either and try really hard not to because nothing about my H really makes much sense these days!

[Atsbaby]

Daring,

Clark began doing that stuff with me. Then he filed for D, only to tell me a few weeks later that maybe we could work on our R. I never could figure out if it was guilt or genuine. I think it's mixed, just like everything else going on with them!

That was clear as mud, huh!?

[daring]

Thanks mleigh and Ats for stopping by!

It is oh so clear as mud...... That they ae crazy!!

H is still being helpful- he checked in on me this morning since I stayed home from work. And went and picked me up lunch midday.
Trying to just enjoy the moments- and realize that they do not mean everything is suddenly going to be OK.

[ForeverYoung]

Isn't it hard when H is so nice? I have a very nice MLCer too. Always friendly and helpful. I have the same reaction as you. Is it genuine or guilt? I can't figure it out either and try really hard not to because nothing about my H really makes much sense these days!

My W is also a nice MLCer, and I couldn't agree more, it can be hard! How does one give up on a spouse that is still still partially in, still trying, still showing some signs of love?

I think it's both, guilt and genuine. Guilt, because they know they're not doing us right, (or in my case, not doing me at all!) and genuine because if it was all fake, we'd know. After all these years, ain't no way W or I could pull one over the other.

Hey, it is what it is. Best to accept it and live our life as we choose.

Get well soon, daring!

[daring]

FY you crack me up- love your sense of humor!!

I think you are right- it is a mix of both. The hardest part is releasing that it means anything about where our sitch is going- they may still walk away they may not.

Funny thing happened yesterday- when I left work on Wed and picked up my antibiotics, I also bought a little bouquet of flowers. I figured I can buy them for myself as a get well cheer up!
Well yesterday H is over and says S7 was really upset about the flowers. ( H hadn't asked me where they came from so maybe he was wondering too :))
S7 piped up and said yeah- someone bought you flowers! Who was it? I said I bought myself flowers since I was sick. H made a point of walking by me and saying again how disturbed S7 had been.

H is starting to see the impact on the kids not only from a parenting standpoint but also as a family unit. Not that I was trying to upset S7 by any means, but clearly he still thinks of his parents as the ones that should be together. I think it's good that H sees these reactions and the importance of it all to the kids.
( and maybe he was a little worried himself!!)

[Shining]

daring,

I was going to take your flower idea today!!! What a cool thing to do for yourself!!

I think anything we do differently can cause our H's to take notice....the flowers seemed to get his attention! Interesting tho, that your H said about S7 being disturbed....did YOU get that impression from S7, or was it H projecting....

If it bothers S7, then I would check in with him. It may also be a seeds thing planted by H, questioning S7 about the flowers.....I remember there were times my kids weren't concerned about things until xh told them they should be. Grrrrrrr. He would say things like, "doesn't that BOTHER you????" And "you mean you don't think that's ODD??" Oh, he was great at building their sense of security. Not. Then the kids would second guess their original response, and change their opinion.

But, if it was just H fishing....eh. Let him wonder. You have better things to do!

[daring]

Hey Shining- it was nice to have flowers, and of course the " air of mystery" didn't hurt either.

Turns out it was a mixture of curiosities. S7 said something along the lines of- nice dad you glt mommy flowers since she's not feeling well. H responded saying it hadn't been him. So then S7 started asking- well who got mommy flowers?
I have to wonder if there wasn't some projection in there too as S7s comments were likely innocent.

Another interesting conversation tonight- H had come to hang out for a little bit with kids ( he did dishes for me, ran errands for kids and picked up meds for me- really helpful again). He asks me about my friend who's going through something similar. He didn't know any of the details, just that they may be splitting. I told him she filed for D. He sounded surprised and said "SHE filed?"
I said yes, her H started having a friendship that turned into an affair and he's pretty much living with her. My H says " well I didn't do that", I said no you didn't. He said I looked upset and I said I just feel sad for her- she decided she doesn't have the patience to deal with it and is just done. He asked if I had offered some of the books I read in the beginning of our sitch and I said yes. ( he doesn't know specifics of the books- just that I have read a bazillion).

So what I take from this is two things- he wanted to contrast that he hadn't gone that far ( though he has admitted that he took the EA too far) and he noticed that my reading and working on myself has made a difference.
For my part- I'm focusing on the positives. But I know he's still cooking......

[daring]

I am not doing real well right now and if weren't for the fact that it will require major cleanup I could seriously break a few sets of dishes!

Weekend was low key, H came over and did some things around house and got one of our old cars running for S16 to start driving. He was very nice and helpful.
Today we all went to a movie together which was fun.

The he!!acious part of the day started when it was time to get D13 and S16 over to H's apt for the week. ( we are alternating)
D13 threw a fit- said she's not going she hates it etc
I said you have to go, you need to soend time at your dads. She packed but was really nasty to me. I tried to diffuse it saying yo her I know she's hurting and doesn't want this but being mean to me isn't going to make it better.
When we got to H's she refused to get out of my car. S7 was already there so I went up to chat with him while H talked to D13. She still wouldn't go so he had to lift her out of the car. She then started kicking and broke free and walked away. At one point she said she was going to walk home.
I asked what H wanted me to do- I said I'm not leaving yet. He said he could handle her, I said yes I understand that but she's hurt and I want to help and I can't even do that. He was very calm and kind through it all and I kept my composure but I'm sure through the tears and red face he could see I was hurt and very angry. Once she went inside I drive off without even looking at H.

I just don't get how he can sit there so calmly realizing that his choice to tear apart the family is tearing his own child apart and he doesn't even want to fix it. ( I know I'm assuming, it probably does hurt him but he just can't deal with those emotions). It is so unfair that the kids have to be hurt by these adult problems. Uggghh!!
I also have more of an issue because I went through a lot as a kid and never wanted my own children to suffer through the same, and here we are.... H was the same way until the MLC alien took over.
He just texted me to say she was calm watching her TV show but he's sure he's in for he!! soon. Sorry but you deserve it....

[daring]

So I find that the weeks I'm by myself and the kids are with H that I oscillate between feeling anger and empowerment. There are a few moments of sadness but mostly the other two. Maybe it's because it's one of the few times I'm alone with my thoughts
I went to exercise this evening ( yay feeling better enough to get back at it) and am planning a get together with a friend tomorrow night. Kids come back friday and we have an awesome plan to go to a festival all weekend.

Sometimes I feel like I did this all backwards- I had no anger in the beginning
( granted I found DB after 48hrs) and I just started furiously reading and working on everything I could and trying to be understanding and compassionate with him. ( not a fixer type at all right?!!) The anger for me came much later. And I still frequently cycle through it- especially seeing the kids hurt.

Tonight I was thinking about everything and how I may have had a lot of things to work on in the marriage- but we both did. And if any of them were truly divorceable offenses than we would both have deserved it 80 times over. But I don't deserve it- I deserve someone who is committed to me and loves me and is willing to take the good with the bad.
Sept 14 was bomb " I want a D" and this Friday Oct 10th is the 1yr anniversary of receiving the D papers in email. They are still just sitting with no further action and given its been a year maybe he really doesnt want it and he will find his way back.
I dunno- I think I'm just needing some inspiration and some refueling of my hope. I can be realistic, but I am one who needs hope to continue moving forward and I'm running a little low right now.

[daring]

I am so angry, hurt, whatever else I can come up with. Granted this is only the second week that H has fully had the kids and I haven't seen them much. But up until today they always come back to my house in the morning b/c our neighbor takes D13 to school, D16 catches the bus and S7 is picked up by our nanny.
Yesterday all of that happened but I had to leave for work very early so I wasn't home to see them.

This morning around 730 I texted H wondering if they were ok. He said they were fine. D13 was just picked up, S7 would be leaving soon and he was taking S16 to school. The missing detail was he " thought" he had texted me.
I was a basket case- it's not much but just a few minutes in the morning brightens my day. I was expecting it and just felt shattered.
( speaking of shattered if you throw Corelle at a wall it just bounces- must use China)
He apologized and asked if anything else was going on. I said no. He said are you done with me for now? ( meaning talking) I said pretty much yeah.

He texted asking if I wanted to go over and hang with them tonight- I said I had a meeting. He said he didn't know I had meeting.
Then I sent this text:

It was just scheduled last night.
We need to discuss all of this further so that the communication is better. When it is my week you are still over here seeing them a lot. I would like to know when I will and won't see them when you have them. And I don't want to have to rely on a neighbor or my nanny to communicate what's going on but I did just ask our neighbor to give me a heads up so I can prepare for what to expect in case you don't tell me.

Maybe that was anti- DB- maybe not. But I deserve to know and it's true- when I have them he's over and hanging out and it's good for them because they are having such a hard time. But it looks like on his weeks I won't see them much- partially because I try not to intrude. I'm not sure beat next steps.

He hasn't responded to my text.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi daring. I oscillate too. I think we all do. Pretty normal I’d say.

I like to accept all those feelings of hurt and anger, then stand back as far as I can and look at the sitch from a purely rational, non-emotional angle. As you are well aware, emotions come and go!

What are all your options here? How do you suppose each would play out, now and in the future? Just something I like to think about.

I like knowing that I can bail out of my M at any time. That is one of my options.

Just a reminder: Our spouses are not doing this TO us, they’re doing it FOR them. I’m convinced they HAVE TO... And I do believe part of them doesn't want to, which is why they're still partially in.

Good job on standing up and requesting better communication regarding the kids… that wasn’t anti DB at all. Actually, it makes you look strong and attractive.

[daring]

Well he texted me back and seemed upset that I asked neighbor to let me know ( just for background that's also the former EA so I think he worries about what she thinks of him sometimes).
I called him- I said it's better to talk so things aren't misunerstood. He asked me to give him benefit of the doubt. He thought this was something we could work through. Of course I'm on the phone crying like a dumba$$ but I couldn't help it. I explained that I wasn't thinking he did it on purpose and I wasn't trying to talk badly about him to anyone else. I just felt left out of the loop of the plans and I feel like I try and over communicate with him and think through things and I just wanted the same courtesy. I explained I had no problem with the plan to pick them up at his place, it made sense, I just wanted to know and minimize my own emotional distress when I thought I would see my kids and didn't.
He apologized and said it was good that we could talk through it and figure it out b/c it could have built up into resentment and a big issue.
I reiterated that I did not think he was being devious or hurtful on purpose.
I didn't say this but Clearly he feels pretty bad about himself because lately if we have a disagreement or I'm upset about something he immediately jumps to the conclusion that I think he is selfish or a jerk or purposefully mean or doesn't have kids best interest in mind. I always make sure to clarify that I am saying none of those things and please don't assume those feelings are coming from my thoughts.
While I do think those things at times- the moments that he brings them up I'm actually trying to be compassionate and understanding but also have him be respectful of my feelings.
Clearly he has a ways to go......

[daring]

Thanks FY- I needed the " feel it but then step back and look at it" reminder. I just think I lose my rational approach when it comes to issues with the kids. And this is really the first time that there has ben more time and space separation between H and I and the kids and I.

I know he needs to do this- he will never be whole and we will not even have an option for a new M if he doesn't gonpn this journey.
I just feel like I was doing really well and all of the sudden I'm a mess!!

I do have to say that he is trying- he texted me later a picture of a new potato peeler and said " peace offering?"
I had made soup over the weekend and didn't have one so I was peeling potatoes with a paring knife. I'm pretty impressed- he actually tried to think of something that would be helpful to me. My LL is acts of service and quality time pretty equally. He's doing the AOS a lot lately.
Focusing on the positive....

[ForeverYoung]

I do have to say that he is trying- he texted me later a picture of a new potato peeler and said " peace offering?"
I had made soup over the weekend and didn't have one so I was peeling potatoes with a paring knife. I'm pretty impressed- he actually tried to think of something that would be helpful to me. My LL is acts of service and quality time pretty equally. He's doing the AOS a lot lately.

That was sweet of him, and I too am impressed.

I wish my W would give me a piece offering. My LL is... oh, never mind.

[Matt165]

That one made me laugh FY!
The idea of my W even knowing what a LL is let alone caring is about as likely as the Zombie apocalypse starting this afternoon!

[CaliGuy]

The peace offering was a very nice thing ... I laugh a bit because I think to myself ... even if I were a nutjob-MLC'r I am not thinking I would hand over anything that could be used against me as a weapon to my W who I have wronged ... lol

Reading your sitch ... I think like many of us here .. one of the challenges is wrestling with those deep emotions, processing them .. all while still appearing to our MLC-WAS as strong, positive, attractive ... when under that calm lake is the Loch Ness Monster that wants to jump out of the water and whack em with a potato peeler .... looks like you are doing well holding it together .. Kudos !!

[daring]

FY- I sure hope you get a "piece" offering soon too! You are an amazing guy and deserve to be loved in your LL. As always you make me think and lake me laugh and both are much needed.

Matt- I'm sorry your sitch is where it's at right now. I read up on the issues with your D14 and I understand how hard it is when we feel our kids are affected. Sending you hugs.

CaliGuy- you cracked me up too- the visual of the Loch Ness armed with a potato peeler will be my go to when I need to hit the reset button!
Im sorry you find yourself here with us but it soundsxlile you are doing pretty well yourself. I'll wander over to your thread to read more...

As an update I had IC today which was great timing. As I already knew we touched on the fact that my D13s difficulties are hitting a wound I need to heal. At a year shy of the same age I was the one who discovered my father's affair and ended up telling my mom eventually. It sparked off several years of even more dysfunctional dynamics and me caught in between two parents and lacking for any nurturing in adolescence.
Not that I want D13 to experience any of this- but at least H and I are not at that F'd up level and she has much more support and guidance. My IC reminded me I'm not failing and dooming her to the same pain.
I also now have an opportunity to work through the emotions of that time in my life. I ordered an " inner child healing workbook" to help me dig into this more. If it's helpful I'll share the resource.

Thanks all you guys for stopping by. I needed the " visits" even if just to commiserate.
I also Gal with a great friend tonight over dinner and wine.
Crappy day at least ended in a good note

[2BHappy]

Keep up the good work of working on you. In this crazy mess that is all we really can do is work on ourselves, and pray for our MLC.

When we have kids in all this, it's even more important to work on ourseleves to be there to help our kids. To keep stable environments.

[daring]

Thanks 2b- yes- we need to heal ourselves in order to be a stable environment for our kids. I never wanted to or thought I would be here but I need to do the best I can for them..... And for me.

[Ggrass]

That one made me laugh FY!
The idea of my W even knowing what a LL is let alone caring is about as likely as the Zombie apocalypse starting this afternoon!

Snap, matt snap!

I tryed to get h to read ll 11 years ago when we were first together, never happened.

See you at the zombie apocalypse Mmmmwwwwaahhha.

[daring]

Been " offline" for a few days- had a rough weekend- H and I disagreed about some things. And I got a little too intoxicated Sat night and was not feeling too good. I think I need to take a break from alcohol as when I'm feeling down already it just makes me feel worse.

So today I had a mini meltdown- months ago I had asked H to get his clothes out of the house. Tonight after I got home all of the sudden I turn around and see his side of the closet empty. I just started bawling. Clearly I've been diving deeper into my abandonment fears and childhood wounds and I'm doing some serious processing.
So I called H and I asked him to please inform me before he's going to do something like that. Unexpected changes ( like last week's morning when I thought I would see the kids and didn't) are upsetting and cause stress.
He apologized and I told him he didn't do anything wrong- I was just informing him of what I need from him.
Then he started talking about how he would like some kid pictures and family pictures and could he scan them? And then mentioned he had to put together an inventory of what's his and mine and he didn't want me to be surprised by that. Which means he is definitely moving forward with the D as that is paperwork required to finalize the process.
H said something very sweet to me at one point when he was talking about showing the kids our good parts and he said " half of my heart is you". Oh really? Then why the F are you doing this????? I know I know, MLC. But he seems closer to finishing the process and coming out of the tunnel- I see a more mature version of old H emerging.
So why does he have to go this far? Uggghh! I am really feeling hopeless.

[daring]

Yesterday morning after being upset still from various things I decided to take all of H's pictures and memorabilia down from the game room and office and put it together in a bin. I need to make this MY home, not OUR home- at least for now. It felt really good- I needed to do something like that.

He picked up kids from school so he got to the house before I did last night. He texted me saying " I take it this bin of chit by the door is stuff I should get rid of?"
I couldn't tell if he was upset or just being sarcastic and playing around- could be either depending on which H was present for the day. I texted back " no not to get rid of, those are all your pics and some of the duplicate pics of kids." He texted back thank you for putting it together.

So later in evening he brought D13 home from running errands for school supplies and told me when they had walked in earlier she asked him if mommy was " putting his crap on the curb". I sensed a little bother in his voice though he was laughing.
He then sat down next to me on the couch ( that's a rarity these days) and we chatted about kids schedules etc. He asked if I needed anything and then he headed out.

I have noticed that he comes nearer when I show some of my vulnerability and upset and when I ask him to help with certain things that are joint responsibilities. I'll have to continue to experiment there some more.
But I'm also taking care of myself and trying each day to accept that it looks like he's going to need to progress to D to be able to complete his tunnel exit.....
So weird!

[ForeverYoung]

reachingHigher's D came within mere days of being final before her H started to turn back towards her and the marriage. That was almost 2 years ago and last I talked with her they were doing well.

I'm a fan of asking for things from our spouses... it works for me too. But then our sitches are different than most because our spouses are still partially in the marriage and being nice. Doing the best they can while in crisis, I believe.

Good job not using his pictures to fuel the fireplace.

[daring]

Funny you say that FY- I remembered her story and had been looking for her threads recently to help me get out of this rut.
I found them and they are very helpful.
I seem to be on an upswing from that angry, sad place that I was.

Have GAL planned this weekend with a friend and her adult kids. We are going to spend Sat night in a hotel in nearby town and go shop and out to dinner and dancing. I'm looking inward to it!

[daring]

Had a nice girls getaway last night- went out to eat and dancing! Lots of fun!

I've pulled way back lately just because I needed to regroup some. H seems to be reaching out- texts or calls about things that aren't absolutely necessary. He was at my house when I got back from the girls weekend. Stayed for a few min then left. Then he realized that S7 needed some stuff for tomorrow and texted me he was coming by and did I need anything. That's his tag line lately- he will check in if he's running errands or before he leaves the house he has been asking that everytime.
Sometimes I do ask for him to do things and he's very helpful when I do. Sometimes I say I'm fine ( which is mostly true but occasionally I just don't feel like asking).
I can't tell if this is a habit he's getting into or if he's trying to connect in some way by helping me ( one of my LL is AOS). Seems to be a bit of both.
I also notice he seems to think I don't want him around- tonight he chatted for a little bit and then said " well I'll get out of your hair". I'm not going to chase him- that dance was getting old. But seeing as he felt rejected and I'm pretty strong and independent- I don't want to be so distant he figures there's no chance.
Tough balance.....

[daring]

Arrgghh- I'm grumpy again!
Today got text from H that D13 was having a rough time with math ( her hardest subject) and she failed her test and was being rude to everyone trying to help her. ( she's a pistol anyway but add the situation with H and I to her adolescence and it's like 4th of July sometimes). I also got a text from my nanny that S7 had a hard day at school, was crying a lot at minimal things and was being aggressive to two of his friends (not like him at all).
I really don't do well when my kids are having a hard time- and I get very irritable that the adult issues they shouldn't have to deal with are contributing.

When I got home H had been trying to help D13 with her math homework for a couple of hours. He was clearly out of reserve but as soon as I walked in said to me " S7 needs to talk about his day as it's pretty emotional for him and D13 needs to work on her math in order to retake her test and they haven't had dinner yet". Ummm- ok- can I walk in and catch my breath??
He at least stayed a few more minutes before leaving- when I walked outside to talk with him I said " I know you're stressed but telling me what's going on the way you did right when I walked in was a bit much" he said sorry- didnt mean to take it out on you. I said he didn't take it out on me- he wasn't mean- it just didn't set the stage positively for me to take over a try to help them.
He was understanding of that- and then said earlier D13 was being ugly and just said " what are you even doing here". He seemed almost teary when he said that. I said she's lashing out in the ways she knows will hurt- but she's also hurt by the situation.
I left it at that- those are his issues to work through- he made this choice and his kids are suffering. It's a harsh reality that makes me very angry ( especially compounded by my own issues) so I have to work very hard not to project- but I'm also not going to be the fixer and try to minimize it all.
Gotta work through my own issues on this topic as it's keeping me cycling through anger.....

[daring]

I am venting here so I don't do it anywhere else. I'm feeling down today. It's our neighbor/friend/former EA birthday today. H wrote something nice on her FB timeline. It wasn't inappropriate at all- but I'm just feeling chitty about myself and so it really bothered me.
My birthday is in two days- wonder what he will write on mine- " thanks for being a great mom to our kids- sorry I kinda love you but destroyed our family" ....
Yes I know I'm being ridiculous and that's why I'm putting it here.

I'm beginning to think the LBS' cycle more often as we reach closer to acceptance b/c despite the fact H and I aren't interacting much except for kid stuff- I feel like I'm spinning.

So on a good note I saw this on FB today and knew God meant for me to see it:
" some people have a spiritual mark on them, a designation that says " when the right thing needs to be done and no one else will do it..... You're it". People that have it will know it- they will look back on their lives and realize that whenever something was wrong, others looked to them for change. It isn't easy. Lots of times, people with that mark get worn down and tired. They just wish that someone else would be the support they could lean on in their own hard times. It doesn't work that way. They are built to stay steady even when expectations are at their highest. If you're one of those with this mark please accept my encouragement. It is hard but the joy of knowing you have pleased the One that put that mark on you surpasses any acknowledgement that another human being could ever give you. "

Wow- that is me- and I am often weary because there is no one else to lean on. At least I have a glimpse of why. And I'm reminded I need to lean on Him.

[daring]

I feel like I've been posting in flurries but there is so much emotion I'm cycling through I need to get it out somewhere. S7 is still having a hard time with emotions. I'm thinking he needs to go to therapy and my nanny even suggested he might benefit from counseling. So I'm going to look for one for him.

It really hits me and makes me sad and angry that ALL of my kids are so affected by this. S16 went through an admit for suicidal ideation and depression treatment in Feb ( thankfully thus far he is much better), D13 is an emotional and sassy adolescent on steroids, and my sweet and sensitive, caring S7 is having a hard time regulating his emotions. It feels very overwhelming and I feel like I have failed them.

So I've started reading a book from the rec reading list that I bouht a long time ago but hadn't been ready to deal with: Journey from Abandonment to Healing. It's time to dig into this as it's one of my major issues and it keeps getting triggered by watching my kids go through what they are. I hope it helps- it's good so far.

[daring]

Yet another post.....
Interesting conversation this morning. Went to S7s parent/teacher conference and called H afterwards to tell him about it. ( he had to drive other kids to school). Was very good, I really like the school headmistress.
He said it sounded similar to what the headmistress had been telling him when he picks up S7.
Then we got on the topic of how she told him she's a lesbian and had a bad marriage before and is now looking for a new relationship. I was like geez- why were you discussing all this? He said he goes early sometimes and chats. And then asked "am I surprised that he found out everything about her? " ( he prides himself in the fact that people are comfortable talking to him even though he's not terribly social) I said no not surprised. He said what then? I said it's not a fruitful conversation. He kept pushing and I said it's annoying and upsetting. He said do I think there are things he doesn't know about me? I said no- then he said or is it more that I should be paying attention to you. Then he asked is it in general or that I'm not paying attention to the day to day right now? I said yeah in general but from before, not right now at all. I also said I'm working on some major issues that are wounds related to him and then the same wounds that have nothing to do with him. He said playfully- " what you want me to take responsibility for some of the issues?" He said I know- I know you're dealing with a lot. I said I hesitated to answer because I know you are dealing with a lot and I don't have any expectations right now.
He said I couldn't right now if I tried- I'm not able to do much of anything.
I tried to ask how he was doing, was he sleeping etc- he said sort of but don't worry about me right now.
Ok......not a bad conversation- I showed that I wanted attention from him at some point but I'm letting him be for now.

I'm thinking he's in withdrawal- he looked so tired and downtrodden the last few days. But I also see more maturity, more " trying to do the right thing".
I'm so emotionally exhausted too.
I think I need to take a mental health spa vacation.....

[ForeverYoung]

You're peeking in the oven way too much, daring. Looking for any signs that he's almost done. This is understandable, we all do it, but it is not helpful.

Remember, you need to Outlast his Crisis. This is very difficult to do when watching him so closely. Let Him Go.

I'm in with the spa vacation idea. Can the headmistress join us?

What other things did you used to enjoy doing without H?

[daring]

Darn FY- I didn't think I was peeking in the oven- I thought I was doing pretty ok as this is the least interaction we have had in months. But better doesn't mean not peeking, huh?? It's really hard for me to not know what's going on with him, and also not to have him as even a friend right now. But I know he's not capable of that. He needs to take his journey.....

So I'm thinking adding the headmistress to the spa retreat might not help your sitch much?? Might help mine as I'm sure the idea of watching is appealing to most men including my H!

What did I do without H? Good question- I didn't. I've been with him since I was 17- all social stuff was together and with the kids. With me being in medical training my free time was limited and precious- so it was spent on H and kids.
The one thing I like to do that he doesn't is go out dancing- and that I have been doing more often lately.
I'm going to keep digging into the abandonment book as well. If I'm actively working on my own chit- I won't be so tempted to perseverate on him and where he's at emotionally.
This is so slowwwwwwww! I was already a very patient person but God must really think I need to be even more.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I was already a very patient person but God must really think I need to be even more.

You have no idea the depth of your patience, yet.

Instead of things you used to do before H, change it up things you wanted to do but never did.

Dancing is good, good for you body and soul.

[daring]

Jack- you are such a legend in these parts- thank you so much for stopping by!!

I know I'm getting weary and need to purchase more patience shovels and dig deep. I am also really being triggered by the " withdrawal" of my H as well as the impact of this whole sitch on my kids. My IC agrees I'm on the right track addressing my abandonment fears. Going to do some EMDR work on it as well.

So what have I always wanted to do??? I would love to take dance classes and I would love to travel more. I'm working on incorporating some short trips here and there. I also love horseback riding and need to spend more time working with my horse that D13 and I share. I have also wanted to get in shape and find boot camp to be a great stress reliever as well as good for my health. I'll keep working on these things.
In the meantime- I turn 41 tomorrow. I bought myself a new dining room set for my birthday. I know it may seem strange, especially since I'm not much of a cook. But something about H having his new place and all new stuff made me want to have some things of my own that help this be MY house not just what was OUR house ( and could still be in future).
I'm envisioning having Thanksgiving dinner with that new furniture and focusing on what I'm thankful for b/c I know there are many in much worse places than I am. Time to remember all my blessings!

[CaliGuy]

Daring ... well .. first off ... Happy Birthday! I did similar ... decided I would buy myself that Harley I have ALWAYS wanted for my Birthday, went in about a month before just to look, ended up spending 3 hours "just talking because I am not buying" to the sales guy handing me the keys.... funny thing ... when you buy all the people who work there grab the closest bike, crank it up, rev and honk the horns ... I tell you .. that moment was liberating for me I had tears in my eyes ... yeah .. all badda$$ at the Harley place and I am almost crying!!

Question ... can you explain to me the EDMR technique ... I am very curious... head alot about it.

So .. yes .. go dance .. do you ... I received advice on my thread in the past couple days... totally changed my outlook, was asked how I would act if my W died, and ya know .. totally changed how I am dealing with things, I realized I have been mourning for a year now, ... that M and that W died ... if I am going to have any future .. its new, with or without her. So I have behaved as if when I do see her its a blessing, like I get a chance to see her alive in a way, and I am living my life as if she is gone ... which she is .. and if she ever comes back its not the same girl I married anyways. .... just thought maybe this might help you aswell.

[daring]

Thank you for the b-day wishes CaliGuy!
So this wasn't an MLC Harley you purchased- right?!! And I think guys that cry ARE bada$$ ( bad boy good heart kinda thing).

So EMDR- I have found it to be very helpful for deep rooted issues. It stands for Eye movement desensitization reprogramming. Basically my IC uses " tappers" you hold in your hand that alternatively vibrate. I've also done it with the eye movements. Basically the concept is bilateral rhythmic movements are occuring while you are focused on a feeling or belief about yourself or memory and the emotional pain is able to be processed in a way that doesn't have such lazing and profound effects.
The thought is that it accesses emotional memories that may have been stored without being processed in a healthy way and we now carry around as baggage. I find it helpful when I can't quote pinpoint the issue and to get through issues faster rather than getting stuck.
I highly recommend it- just need to find a good therapist with solid training in it.

The idea about our spouse having passed away- I agree if I could do that it would help. For some reason I seem to be in a worse emotional place than I have been in many months. Maybe I've peeked the onion layers back to the deeper hurts- I don't know. But I'm trying to face the issues head on as best I can.

So one interesting interaction to describe tonight- and yes I know I need to be patient and let him go. I don't think this is the oven dinging but it's nice to see progress.

Tonight I came home to H at the house b/c my mom was locked out and then fell.
He followed me into the bathroom and kept staring at me. He had feeling in his eyes. I said what? He said happy birthday- then asked if I was ok. I said yes- he said uh uh what's wrong? I kept saying I'm fine. I tried to seem positive and said nothing I'm just workin through my issues. He kept pushing and at that moment it seemed walking away would be worse. I finally told him- I said it was hard to see nice things written about someone else on their birthday (former EA) and I'm chitty. ( he wrote something teasing me about how I'm still older than him and heading to my 50s..would have been fine if the other post hadn't been on FB to our friend 2 days before..) He looked very sad that I felt that way- I said its my issue I'm working on it. He said "its ok I wasn't sure what to say either" He started to take my hands and hold them. I said well I wouldn't say something that nice about someone else if I couldn't say something nice about you. He said I thought that I was doing good posting at midnight and making you laugh. I said its fine you were trying to be thoughtful. He said no you should expect better. I said I don't expect- he said well you should. Then he hugged me for a really long time. With those relief sighs like he does sometimes.
He said Im sorry. I said really I'm ok- it's my issue to work through. He said stop- no- I would have noticed the same thing too. I said thank you.

So I know this is not a sign of anything other than he is taking some baby steps. He's able to see my feelings and feel compassion ( evidenced by his actions) and he seems to be able to get some perspective on how the EA history impacts me deeply and appeared genuinely sorry.

Back to letting him go....

[daring]

And one last post to round out the day- MLC is so weird!

H came by to pick up stuff for S16 who is staying the weekend as they are doing a school fundraiser.

He was talking about different things and at one point asked if we could do the holidays together at my house. I said OK. He said "well you may change your mind as things progress. You may want to uninvite me by then".
So I replied " don't give me papers to sign on Christmas". He said he wouldn't, and that they might be done before then. Ummmm ok- looks like we are doing this.

Then talked about visiting his mom after Christmas as his brother wanted to arrange a trip. I had said that was fine but all the kids may not want to go with him. He commented he wasn't sure he wanted to go- didn't want to deal with some things. He said " do you want to go?" I said I don't know, I didn't think I was necessarily invited. He said " they're your family" ( very adamantly) and then said " they like you better than me- I just get called an a$$hole". I told him they don't like me better, they just don't understand your decisions, and I know they're my family too but I'll just visit them separately because you and I won't be family. He said we don't have to go separately, we might be D by then but we can just sleep separately.

Let me get this straight- he wants to spend the holidays together at my house and take a trip to visit his family as if we are all still family but we will probably be D by then? ( I didn't say any of this but it's so F'd up logic I can't even follow it)

He also kept fluffing my hair and saying happy birthday, asking me if I got the cookies he bought me since he wasn't sure what the " rules" are and wanted to do something nice.

Maybe I'll have a ReachingHigher moment where he will call off the D at 11th hour. But I don't think so- seems he really needs to do this- yet he really doesn't want to let go of me either.
I have one DB coaching session left, I haven't done it in months. Maybe it's time to chat with them. I'm just not sure what to do at this juncture. I'm not sure this marriage is DB-able.
What did I say above.... Letting him go??? yeah I s@ck at that!

[BrightFuture]

Oh, daring. Your H is so confused. He seems to be thinking that D will fix something for him. He is in a fantasy land. He probably wants it both ways, but he is going to find out that it is not going to work this way. I’m glad you have one DB session with a coach. Maybe you can use it before the holidays to help to have a plan in place.

[daring]

I agree Bright Future- he is so confused! Last time we really had an R talk ( initiated by him) he discussed how he would rather remarry me after doing things right and making things up to me. He still has some resentment towards me for some things but he also recognizes he has major issues and I think the D is " safer" for him b/c he feels he can't measure up or will end up hurting me.
The MLC logic is such a mess.

I called to set up my coaching session- I need some help on best ways to handle all of this.

[daring]

I had an interesting phone conversation with H tonight. My DBing is changing to be a friend but be honest. Not sure if it's good or bad but it's wherei am. I'm expecting him to finalize the D at some point just based on recent conversations and his behavior. I know that doesn't mean the end but preparing myself for it helps me detach a little.

So our conversation tonight started off about kids stuff and then he wanted to talk about trip with his family after Christmas. I am invited as well and he actuslly wants me to go- I gave him option either way. The discussion went as follows:

H: I don't know about going. I just don't want it to turn into like it did at my sisters wedding. ( when both his sisters and mom gave him he!! about the situation- for the record I did not prompt any of it- I am just really close with all of them).
He said it will be stressful for all of us blah blah blah.

Me: ok well then I can not go if that's easier

H: no I don't have a problem if you go I just can't handle that again.

Me: well you're going to have to deal with them at some point and I thought it would be good for the kids to go. I'm trying to be understanding but I see this from two sides- one the receiving end of your decisions that wants to say too f'n bad you made your situation deal with it, and another side that understands you are hurting and trying to work through a lot.

H: yeah maybe I just need to let you know about it and then if conversations start I can walk away or something. Or maybe I shouldn't be telling you this at all- I don't know.

Me: maybe we should start now with me not taking these trips with you. I mean- I'm not going to be going on family vacations with you to see them for the next ten years or something.

H: well you could be. We decide how this is going to be going forward. We are going to do this different. Maybe we will do Holidays together over the tears and might go in town or out of town.

Me: no it's not going to be like that because I don't plan on being alone forever.

H: you'll never be alone for long you are too wonderful

Me: clearly

H: just because you and I made many mistakes doesn't mean I can't think you're wonderful.

Me: ok well I think you should just go with the kids, spend time with your family and I can go see them separately with or without kids at a different time.

H: we don't have to make a decision right now- can we talk about it Thursday. I had my counseling today and maybe I'm just stressed and all jumbled up.

Me: I understand I get like that too.

End of conversation. ......

So WTF??? So much of him seems to be waking up but he still has this idea of divorced happily ever after.
I am at a place where if that goes through I may or may not want to continue standing but I will definitely do so until that time.

On a good note- I'm getting stronger. My mojo is coming back. I can do this no matter how it turns out.

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Daring,

For me, to remain standing, does not mean giving up on life even when the D does happen. I figure I will continue on my path with or with out her. If I meet someone, then her loss. If she chooses to catch up with me, then I will decide if I want to start a R with her or not.

Right now my wife also the idea that D means happiness for her. I would suggest that you should not make the D a deciding factor for you. What really counts is you and where you are on your own path.Even if he goes down the path of D, he may eventually change his mind. If he does then you can decide based on who you are at that time.

[2BHappy]

Daring, IF you are D before Christmas,, you need to decide what is best for you! How will you feel spending Christmas with your H or his family?

Like your H gets a D, but still get to have "family"time with you....NOT fair right now...IF D happens and LATER you want to spend family time when its "safe" for you, when your feelings for your H are truly like a friend or family member and it works for the kids,,,then YES but this year with the way things are now,,, DO what is is BEST for you!

If the D is not final before then, but papers have been served,,same thing almost..

What do you want to do? Don't make the choice based on your M to your H or even what is the best for the kids at this point. Make this choice about if you want to spend the holidays with your H and his family...

I just want the choice to be about YOU and what you feel comfortable with.

My recent example:
My H had a close aunt pass, he and his family expects me to attend funeral, but my H is not going does not want to take off work, so I'm not going, not driving 8 hours to a funeral of my H close aunt, becuase him and his family expect me to. I told them if H goes I will come, if not I'm not. I made that choice not based on saving my M, but on how I felt, a 180 for me normally I would go because He wanted me to.

[daring]

LT- I think I'm in the same place as you just saying it differently. The D isn't my deciding factor- but it is the point where I really need to accept that this may be over. Which means I will be open to dating at some point. Might be a new R with a new person or H, but I'm just getting my mindset such that I can envision a life without H if I have to and I will be happy!
But of course, I would much rather a life with him. Hope he and your W figure it out before we leave them behind!!

2B- way to send me some girl power cheerleading! Thanks for reminding me to stop and think of ME too. I need to do that more.
That said its a bit complicated ( preaching to the choir I know)! H filed for D last year Oct 10. He didn't want me to be formally served so I was emailed the papers. He hasn't done anything since but about every 4 months or so he says that's what he needs to do. The most recent discussion seeming more likely that he will actually go through with it.

So what do I want? Well I want this to be the least disruptive as possible for my kids. My PMA and ability to cope goes down the tubes when they are distressed. So I think Holidays together at my house this year is the best for them. I feel strong enough to handle it and not think it means anything regarding H and I.
As far as the trip- H's family is my family. I Was 17 when we started dating and his siblings ranged from 8-14 at the time. I'm just as close to them as he is. So I woukd actually like to go on this ski trip- I think it would be a blast. Heck I would even take the kids without him in a heartbeat if he wimps out about going.
But I also know that he is trying to work on a lot of childhood stuff so if he wants to go, and me staying behind makes him more comfortable ( which it doesn't sound like- his reactions are that he wants to hide from them) then I think it's important for him to be there to help him work on his chit.
Guess we shall see when he and I talk tomorrow. But one thing I'm not doing anymore is trying to buffer the reactions of family and friends in regards to being upset with H. Those are relationships he has to repair on his own. ( look at me- learning to not be a fixer- who'd a thunk??!!)

[CaliGuy]

Daring

You are handling this well .. MLC is bad enough then ya toss the Holidays in .. .seems they want the cake eat session, forget about all the issues during that time, have us put on our acting suits for the family .. then after we know what we are in for ... back on the rollercoaster to Limbo-ville... lol .. and ugh at the same time.

Seems to me .. just my opinion, yes you need to think of you, seems your H wants his holiday cake eat fest, you called it .. Divorce happily ever after? I think he does not want to lose you, but is in the MLC tunnel filled with fog and his logic is .. he can D .. figure out his chit, and marry you like nothing happened .. like you will wait forever, even typing this I feel like I am in the same boat, but I am atleast woking on my poker face. I am personally at a loss on how the Holidays will go, but I do believe we need to put our needs first here.

[daring]

Thanks CaliGuy- I feel like I'm doing pretty well right now and I relish the good days b/c the down days s¥ck!

Tonight's conversation was interesting. H came over and seemed very discombobulated. He's seemed that way more lately. He's back to his MLC fog with poor sleep and no memory.

So anyway- the conversation starts with him saying " what are we going to do about the trip?" And I say " well I think you should go with the kids and since you're worried about drama I'll do something else like visit my sister".
H says " I don't know how I feel about that".
I told him the decision is his but since he won't straight up tell me if he doesn't want me to go ( or he doesn't want to go) b/c he will feel bad I'm trying to help make the decision easier. I said I don't know if your interactions with your family will be different with or without me there so it's up to you. Then he says " if they give me a hard time I'll just tell them to F off".
Hmmmmm- guilt coming out as anger it would seem.....

Then he says " S16's birthday is during that time". I said yes I can spend time with him after. H says no- S16 birthday trumps any feelings I may have about this. I told him it didn't seem that way. I told him he seemed distressed. He said " I'm distressed about taking S16 away from you on his birthday, that's what you're hearing".
I said ok- why don't you do this- tell your brother that we are going but if you get uncomfortable I'll change my plans. He said " if I get uncomfortable I just won't go". Ok whatever.

In general he seemed irritated and " spinning". He mentioned something about changing up the kids schedules with each of us and I said I don't think it will work between my schedule and your work schedule- then he said " you mean my lack of work". ( he still hasn't found a steady job or really started his next company but he is doing consulting and speaking engagements to earn money).
Then he said he was going to get S7s stuff from his place since he will be gone this weekend. He's going with a friend to a game, but is also going to briefly see some of his dad's side of the family since they live there. That might be part of why he is spinning so much right now- his Dad and abandonment is a huge part of his issues he needs to work through.

I was proud of myself- I prayed before the conversation as I didnt want to be too emotional or closed off. I haven't seen him much lately so I was nervous. But God got me through it and I actually didn't even have to try and fake it. I was strong and really didn't even have the " longing" feeling. I more felt bad for him, like I was dealing with an indecisive and immature teenager that needed guidance.
I don't want him as he is- he's got some serious work to do!

[BrightFuture]

Daring, you handled it very well. Good job! I hope your H will work out his issues of abandonment. I think this might be a big part of his MLC.

Stay strong.

[2BHappy]

Good job Daring,

Sounds like a good decision has been made, and either way you will have to montior your feelings.

It's tricky when you are close to your H's family, I've very close with my SIL and actually nervous about how that R might change if H and I get a D:(

[daring]

2B and Bright Future thanks for the support!

Sooooooo as usual what goes up must come down and my mojo crapped out a little tonight.
H came by to be able to trick or treat with S7, (the others had gone with friends).
He was telling me how he has to travel this week earlier than planned and I said ok. Then he tells me his friends company is in trouble, then nonchalantly mentions his friends marriage is in trouble. My inner lion got the better of me and I immediately responded " I've got enough of that myself- I don't need to hear about anyone else".
H was taken aback a little bit. Then asked if he had done something ( other than leave me and break up our family was clearly what he was asking about). I said no. He said " well your standoffish- you've been that way more and more lately but today it's even extra". I said I'm fine.
Later in evening he tells me the new dining room furniture looks nice ( I think it really bothered him I did that- he said earlier that he didn't know I was getting a new dining set. Welcome to we aren't together and I don't share those details with you). I said thanls it just needs to be put together and so and so is coming by on Sunday to help. He said if it's not done by the time he gets back from traveling he will do it. I said you don't have to. He said I know- I'm offering.
I am noticing some underlying fear of losing me.......

So then he asks again " are you sure you're ok?" I said yes-I'm just trying to deal with the situation as best I can and move forward. And I told him I had apparently skipped a lot of the anger stage. He seemed confused. I said " you know- the grief and loss process. I'm hitting the anger stage". He said so now you're mad at me? I said I'm mad in general. Then he said I didn't mean to add more to you by mentioning friends marriage issues- was just trying to share about his work issues and his partner is almost suicidal. I said I understand I'm just trying to get through my own stuff. ( plus I'm thinking- MLC, EA, marriage falling apart, H suicidal, S16 suicidal, D13 an emotional mess over the situation all in the last year and you're about to D me and I'm supposed to be my usual stronger than everyone you can lean on me self???? Whatever!)
Then some small talk and before he leaves he tells me- you look nice ( I made sure my trick or treat attire was HOT yet tasteful!) and then says " and if you need to yell at me you can". I said no I'll figure it out.

H also turns 40 monday. And he keeps talking about how he wants to cancel his birthday.
So I clearly have feelings- wanted to reach out and hug him. But I'm not a blubbering mess- so that's progress, right?

[daring]

And today I am angry- boy this back and forth is exhausting but I'm finding that the anger really does propel me forward as long as I don't get stuck.

H went on a trip to a rugby game for the weekend with friends. Last night they posted a picture of him smiling away in front of a huge pizza with " 40" candles on them celebrating early for his birthday Monday.
The pic didn't really bother me but the comments- someone wrote wow you got him to smile in a picture and another wrote look there is evidence that he's actually happy.
Grrrr! I know I can't make him happy- that comes from within him. But why can't he be that way when he's with me??
I know I'm asking for MLC logic and hurt to be explained and it can't.
And on the flip side- I did find it ironic that even his friends noticed he'd been a sad grump for a long time.

Ok time to let the anger go and move on. Happy f'n birthday to him!
I had a coaching session yesterday and she said I was doing really well. That I was hitting the " final surrender" where you face your fears and know you can live through them and it puts me in a position of power. And he is noticing.
So as soon as I get rid of today's upset I will continue to rock on wit my bad self!

[LoisB]

Hang in there Daring.

You are doing great.

On my H's 47th b'day, someone posted a picture of him on a boat holding a gift of Crown Royal. He was in the middle of a group of a party-ers with a big smile and the OW sitting right next to him. Everyone looking tan and happy and responsibility-free!!

Gag.

I got wind of the picture from a family member or friend. Some "helpful" person immediately let me know. When I heard, I sat in our driveway and sobbed.

That was a bad day.

I kept my distance from FB after that. And, I made sure that family and friends understood that I didn't need to know the gory details of my H's new life.

Just remember, appearances can be deceiving. They usually are. It's called masked depression because it's hidden...M.A.S.K.E.D.

People who cope by running from their problems are usually really good at hiding their true feelings, even from themselves. This doesn't mean they are happier than the rest of us, or happier without us...it just means they are good at hiding their feelings and remaining out-of-touch with those feelings.

Stick to your own truth today.

[2BHappy]

Highs and lows..ups and downs,,,they will happen but we have to remember we are strong and that the downs/lows will be less and less in regards to our situations with our H's.

You are right, dont get stuck keep moving forward.

The anger be careful dont let it consume you.

I need to take my own advice,, WE can get thru this!

[daring]

Thanks for the support ladies!

Lois- you are so right about the masks- I need to remember that. Thank you!

2B I feel like I'm on my own roller coaster separate from H. But yes- as will get through this!

I had a Gal day today watching car races with a good friend and S7. We had lots of fun and it was much needed time out of the house and not thinking about H!

[daring]

I had to share as I feel God really works in ways we have no idea. This has nothing to do with H, but as I have been for many days, I started this morning off sad and angry.

Then a few hours ago one of my staff asked to meet with me real quick- I walked out into a lobby full of staff and hospital admin. They had nominated me for physician of the quarter for demonstrating our values ( integrity, compassion, accountability, respect, excellence) every day. They each wrote several things about me a presented me with a plaque.

Thanks God for a reminder of the good in me and for holding up a mirror that boosts my confidence.

[Ss06]

Daring! Congratulations! That is wonderful!! We all deserve good confidence boosts and the best ones are the ones we least expect!

Enjoy it and celebrate it!

[CaliGuy]

daring .. Congrats on the award .... and yes I truly believe God has a way of nudging us .. saying .. "hey .. hang in there .. I have you."

[ForeverYoung]

Awww, how sweet. You deserve this award, daring. To be able to excel on the job with all that's going on in your life is no easy feat. Great job!

[GoatGal]

"They had nominated me for physician of the quarter for demonstrating our values:
(integrity, compassion, accountability, respect, excellence) every day."

Something we all should aspire to.

Way to go, daring. With so much on your plate, you can still deliver.

---(G)GGG

[Jack_Three_Beans]

That is awesome daring. Congrats.

[job]

Congratulations on receiving the award. What a nice way to present it to you w/the staff all in one place. You should be very proud of what you've accomplished and stand for each and every day.

[LoisB]

Daring, that's amazing!

[daring]

Ss, CaliGuy, FY, GGG, J3B, Job, and Lois- thank you all for the congrats.

I really, really needed this today. I was feeling quite defeated this morning and God wrapped his arms around me and reminded me I'm on the right path.
Sometimes it's bittersweet with things like this at work b/c one of H's complaints is that he was deprioritized and second to my job. As we all know, there are many things I could have done better in my M. But starting this practice and the work it would take to go into it was a season in our lives that we chose together after much discussion. Today after receiving the award that "tear down" voice we all have tried to say to me that I destroyed my M by being this person at work. So I prayed, and thanked God again for reminding me that who I am and what I do matters. And I'm not responsible for filling H's void and facing his wounds- he is.

Thanks again for all the love! It helps to get through the days having the support of you all here!

[Wonka]

Daring,

I'm thinking about switching docs. Do you have any openings?!

Way to go, girl! Good job!!

[daring]

For you Wonka? I will save a room with your name on it!!

[daring]

Ok I have to share something else that happened. As I've mentioned I've been feeling very weary lately. Supposedly my H is working on the papers to finalize the D but I haven't pushed it or asked. Just been going about my business- though lately I have been wondering if is joule just say " when are we going to get this over with?"
So I subscribe to a daily bible verse and commentary email from Seven Seas ministries. This was in my inbox today:

Matthew 19:6 (NKJV) "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

Marriage is an incredible gift from God. Sadly, it has become devalued in today's society.

As followers of Christ, we don't have to fall into the traps of the enemy, destroying what God has joined together.

Making a marriage last takes hard work on both sides. But it can be done!

Are you in a troubled marriage? Have you cheated on your spouse? Have you mistreated them?

Have you given up hope because your spouse mistreated you?

Regardless of what you've been through, this doesn't have to be the end of your relationship. There is hope and there is help for you. You can make it work and have victory in your situation.

Start by forgiving each other. Make a decision to do whatever it takes to work things out and don't quit. Don't give up.

And instead of dwelling on what the other person did wrong to you, stop and ask God what He wants you to change in yourself. If both people in a troubled relationship would do this, and then take it seriously enough to take action to fix the problems, not a single relationship would end up broken.

We know it's not easy, so don't think we're saying that it is. But we've seen God work some miracles in cases where both people were willing to admit that they had faults and then work through the problems in front of them.

So don't give up hope. Trust God. Let Him lead you. If we could all just let God lead us, how much better would our lives be?

It's never too late to start.


Ok God- I'm listening. I will sit back and wait. Purchasing some dig deep patience shovels for the Holidays!

[Matt165]

Hi daring,
First, congrats on the award! Don't think for a min. that your doing a great job hurt your M. I can relate as only a few months before my B-day my W and I decided TOGETHER that I was going to go into a startup business. It meant I wouldn't make anywhere near as much for a least a few years and I would need to spend more energy on my work but she was all for it as it could be a life changer down the road. 3 months later she wants a D and isn't going to even try and "fix" our R problems (or even be able to tell me what the heck they were!). They just become so selfish. In my case she even knew that without her income I couldn't keep this new business going but didn't care.

My W also seems to think that D means "happily ever after". It's so odd how so many MLCers seem to think that just doing this will solve all their problems and they will then be able to fix all their demons. I have asked her straight up how just no longer being M, no longer being a family with our D's is somehow going to "fix" everything for her and help her "find her joy" (her words). She can't give an answer. I don't think any of them can. They got this thought into their heads and until they get what they "know" they "need" (get away from the M if not us) they use it as the reason they aren't any happier no matter what they do. It's as if they think D is some kind of magical thing that wipes their slate clean. My W also thinks that she will spend holidays with me and the kids like we are a "family" even though she was the one to destroy the family. Part of her knows that this can't work but she just can't stop moving forward on the D. It's her only real goal now. Doesn't matter that she isn't any happier living alone. Once she gets that done all will be good in the world. You aren't alone in that from your H, that's for sure! Maybe it has to do with feeling pressure to be a good S. That they know they just can't be the partner they should be and by no longer having the pressure to be a good H/W, they will now be able to "friends" with us without the pressure to be anything more. Who knows? Heck, they don't even know and they're the ones doing it!

The email you got from the ministries really hits home! I really think that this helps spell out the difference between a S that just wants a D because they just don't feel compatible and the S that is in MLC. Both your H and my W know that their own actions were a big part of why the M "won't work". They know that their "reasons" are things that can be worked thru and "fixed" if both parties were just willing to do the work. Our S's just don't feel they are able to do that work. They seem to want some kind of "do over" where all the events of the past are just wiped away and that just isn't possible. They seem to think that D will do that but once they get that, what has really changed? Nothing. A piece of paper saying you no longer are M isn't going to change a thing about THEM. But until they try and find this out for themselves they want to, have to, believe that it will fix everything without the hard work. I would be more than willing to "forgive" my W, make a vow to do whatever it takes to make things work, not just quit. Unfortunately, both of us have to be willing and able to do this and in their MLC state, they just can't do this!

We have much in common daring, I was (and still technically am) M for 21 years, together for 26. We have 2 kids together. My W has suffered with depression for many years and while she never tried suicide, she talked about it many times. In my case I really don't think my W would have actually filed for D without her father pushing her. Until he got involved she would threaten to file but never do anything about moving forward. Even now she doesn't seem to know what her lawyer is sending my lawyer or what it says because I really think her father is the one doing all the leg work. But I also know that without her father she wouldn't ever stop until she gets what she thinks will magically fix all her problems...a D. That may be where your H is as well. Makes no sense to us but in their fog, deep in their tunnel, they seem to believe this.

Hang in there. You are really doing well with dealing with H's weirdness. You really have seemed to find the right things to say. Stay strong and you will get through this a better person than you started, that I'm certain of!

[CaliGuy]

I have read similar passages daring ... and Matthew 19:6 (NKJV) "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." Has been a battle cry for some time.

And yes ... there comes a point when we realize that we are not always strong enough to handle MLC alone, and sure this forum has wonderful tools .. but they are aimed at working on our selves ... so you come to a crossroads at times and you have to just give your S to God ... let Him work on them for a bit. I firmly believe God has given me a few mini nudges and signs ... its the only reason I have a grip on this rope.

Hang in there .. God will take care of you, keep the faith and know he has a bigger and better plan. God does not want us to suffer, he only gives us what we can handle ... apparently its a good deal, just tells us we are stronger than we ever thought possible.

[daring]

Than you Matt and CaliGuy, this process really is so crazy in how they think and what they feel will solve their problems. I really need to hand it over to God as I feel like a complete mess lately.
One min I'm fine, the next angry, the next emotionally shattered. Maybe it's the reality of the D- I don't really know. Maybe Im finally strong enough to actually process these feelings and " be in the moment" when they come on.

Last night I had a short conversation with H. This is what I journaled from it:

I had texted in morning that I realized we needed stuff for D13 school trip. He said he'd take care of it. Then I texted that needed to talk about S7 presents for his birthday next week.
Never heard back so I called in afternoon. Chatted for a bit about present options. Also about needing 2013 taxes for upcoming appeals hearing ( we owe lots of back taxes and I've paid half but hoping to get payment plan for rest). He said remind him later b/c he would prob forget. ( MLC fog seems to have resurfaced).
Couple hours later I texted asking about the taxes as well as making sure he would be paying estimated taxes on his 1099 work so I wouldn't lose opportunity for payment plan. Never heard anything. Uggh I hate it when he ignores me! One of his big issues is finances though so I figured he was avoiding.
Couldn't stand it so I texted couple hours later saying didn't mean to upset him and since I didn't hear back I would just get S7 the presents we had discussed earlier.
He immediately called saying you have a phone- you can use it. Ok whatever you have fingers you can use those f'n jack a$$. ( no I didn't say that- just said I figured he didn't want to deal with the money stuff since I hadn't heard from him).
We talked for a bit, then I also asked about impact of divorce on my taxes and claiming kids etc. I make quite a bit and I'm worried about coming up with enough to pay tax repayment plan plus anything I owe for 2014 if D goes through. He said he hadn't thought about it or the potential impact. ( how nice) Said he thought we would still file as married this year, or either way it wouldn't be something they would know at the hearing. Yes I know but it's something that impacts me. Asked what I thought was fair- I said I should claim all the kids for now b/c I'm paying 100% of expenses to which he said no you're not. ( I didn't argue because he's prob right- I'm paying 98.5%. A$$hat) Then said he came up with a big chunk from his previous company's sale to pay toward back taxes and I said yes- and I have to pay it back plus whatever else I'm going to be hit with.
Then he said if it makes sense that's fine- all he cares about is parenting the kids well.
He stayed very calm- I was the one sounding irritable. I told him I have no idea when he's going to complete the papers or what to expect from any of it and I just need to plan.
He brought up how this is all impacting him too b/c he isn't able to buy a house or anything else- I said not b/c of taxes- he said no other debts- I said different issue. We will work on that next. He said you're right it is. Then he said sorry I'm so frustrating to deal with. I said I didn't say anything about that. He said ok is there anything else we need to talk about? I said no.
Then he changed subject to kids- S7s dynamic at school, D13 sleepwalking etc. apparently trying to lighten the mood.
Then there was a pause and an ummmm- and I said do you have something else? He said no have a good night. I said you too. And that was that.
Second guessing his decisions? Who knows. No point in mind reading. I just know that if this is what he is going to do I need to better understand his timeline and his plans. This uncertainty su£k$!!
And this morning I couldn't sleep and all I wanted to do was cry b/c I feel like I'm just being thrown away!

I'm reading one of the abandonment books from the rec reading list. Maybe that is heightening my sensitivity right now b/c I'm delving in and dealing with that.
I just feel like a big mess!!

[Atsbaby]

Hey daring,

I haven't caught up on your sitch lately, but I do see how frustrated you are getting with H. I get the need to plan and all the financial stuff...I'm opposite of you; I'm not the bread winner and had no clue what I would get and how we were dividing things or how I was going to survive. The one thing I did was NOT contact him. So some advice...stop contacting your H.

Plan what you need to and then talk with H about the kids things as needed. Worry about YOUR finances and set up a payment plan that works for you in the worst case scenario...and if things work for the better, you can pay off more each month and not feel the pressure/obligation if it doesn't work out. I hope that makes sense...it did in my head...lol!

The thing is, he hears you. I know the MLC fog is there, but it's amazing what they "do" remember. Stop contacting him. Let him contact you. Protect yourself and I know that some of it you need his cooperation with, but say it once and let it go. He'll remember, Clark did. It shocked me with some of the little things I said or did that he remembered.

So just a summary, stop contacting your H

[daring]

So ATS- just to be sure I get your message clear- what you're saying is stop contacting my H?

Thank you for your advice and sharing your experience. It's very helpful.

Today I went to boot camp, then to IC and did some EMDR work, then had dinner and a beer with an old friend I hadn't seen in 4 years.
It was all much needed and awesome!

The EMDR seemed to give me some peace even though I didn't feel like I got to any clear resolution. I'm hoping I can keep building on that to get re-centered.
I feel like a bouncy ball- I'm up, I'm down, I'm up, I'm down. Gotta get out of this pattern.

[Shining]

daring, good for you, the boot camp! It sounds like you had a nice, GAL kind of day.

Also great to read you met with an old friend. Isn't it nice to chat with those who knew us long before we lost ourselves in this mess? (Temporary loss, of course. . )

Yeah....the patience thing. Why we can't go to the "peace" store and call it a day, I don't know. My guess is that if it was easy, we wouldn't learn from it. Pain has a way of getting our attention, doesn't it?

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Daring,

Reading your interaction with H, I agree you need to pull back and stop contacting your H as much as possible. I get the feeling that you like many of us, send a message to your spouse expecting a normal, courteous response. When you don't get one you get worried you did something wrong and try to rectify it. Like many of us, I think it may come off as pursuing.

You need to pull back for yourself. Do what is right for you in regards to finances and taxes. Seek your own counsel and make decisions. Only contact him with your needs in regards to those decisions. I would consider married filing separately. Last year I thought I would be mr nice guy and file jointly hoping she would see that it would be better for us if we were together. What she saw was the money returned and not the fact that it was all money I had taken out and that she would have paid more otherwise. This year I will take my own advice and not bail her out again.

[daring]

Thanks Shining and Life's Twists- I really need to keep the focus on me and the kids- it's just so hard some days!!
Our lives remain so entertwined no matter what b/c we have 4 kids who have busy activities and I have to rely on his help ( and my nanny's) due to my unpredictable schedule.
But I definitely need to keep the communication as minimal as possible right now.

It's been a little easier this week since he is traveling. I am traveling all next week so that's good too.
Sunday is S8s bday party so I have to deal with him then. I've noticed that birthdays or other celebration days are definitely harder.
Will fill up my PMA cup so I have plenty to spare before seeing him!

Thanks again for the support everyone- this board really is such a help.

[daring]

So today I had a date with S16 and S7- we went to see Big Hero 6. Adorable movie!! We all cracked up ( and of course I cried a little too).
I truly felt joyful which was nice.

In other strange news- H does not seem to be doing so well. I didn't expect to see or hear from him until Sunday at S7 birthday since he's traveling. ( yes I have been following everyone's advice and haven't contacted him about anything).
So out of the blue he calls tonight around 5- says he had to come back home yesterday ( his travel was within a few hours drive) because he forgot his laptop and wasn't feeling well. Huh???? So weird!
So he was calling to see if I needed anything before he drove back to his meeting. I say no, we are good, getting ready to go to a movie. Then he asks if I need anything for lawyer ( taxes) or before I get ready to travel next week. Again I say I have it all set. He asks if I need ride to the airport Monday morning. I said I was fine. He starts to say- well that way you don't have to leave your car- well it's up to you just let me know.....
I said I would look at my schedule and see but would probably drive myself.
He said ok guess I'll see you Sun- what time is S7s party again??

So the part I'm most happy about is that I wasn't all excited that he called or even wanting to stay on the phone. I have things to do- was setting up my new dining room furniture and then getting ready for movie.
He sounds terrible, lost again. Hasn't sounded like that in awhile. I have some theories but they are all mind reading.
So back to me- big trip next week- couple days with old high school friend, a spa day, and then 3 days of conference. Will be a nice getaway!

[daring]

Well I survived the b-day party and kept my PMA!
H seems off still- memory poor again, tired, health seems down. He's also worried about making money and setting up consulting jobs so I'm sure that's part of it. Yet he also made a point to pay for the extra charges at the bday party when I said I would take care of it all. Reminds me of the teenager trying to prove to Mom he can really do it all on his own.
He also mentioned to me how his family was asking about me when he visited them a couple weekends ago ( dad's side, the one that brings up a lot of issues for him). He said they want to keep in touch with me no matter what and that they hate him ( same thing he said about his mom and siblings). I said no they don't, then realized I prob should have at least validated that he felt that way.
I actually feel bad for him on this issue- he must have a really horrible view of himself and a lot of guilt to keep saying/feeling those things.i know he's also probably trying to reconcile what he's doing and the fact that his dad disappeared from his life at age 12 and basically started a whole new family.
I know- his chit to work through- I can't fix it for him.

I'm off to my combined GAL/social and work trip- will be good to get away!

[CaliGuy]

Wow daring ... way to have yourself together regardless of H and his chit. Kudos!!

[123Gwen]

Sounds like the limiting contact is really working well. Kudos on a great week.

[daring]

Thanks CaliGuy and hi Gwen- thanks for stopping by also!

It's hard, but I am continuing to let him be to figure out his own stuff. I know if I don't leave him alone to get through this there can't be a restored M as a possible ending to this story.

I had a phenomenal time with my old HS friend yesterday and today. We realized we hadn't actually seen each other in 24 yrs- crazy how we can lose touch with people we were so close to!
We stayed up until the wee hours drinking wine, reminiscing, and exchanging thoughts on our situations ( she is having marriage issues also). What's beautiful about our friendship is that we reconnected like it was no time at all AND we listened and pondered and offered thoughts but no " you shoulds" when it came to discussing our sitchs. Just trying to understand and make sense of our own messed up pasts and those of our Hs and how does this all fit into what we want from life.
I get so tired of people who tell me what to do and why am I staying etc, that it was just so nice to hang with someone who could just be there in the moment with me and not have to advise me.
We have promised to make at least an annual but preferably semiannual visit with each other.

Tomorrow I scheduled a spa day for myself. Then it's conference time.

[daring]

General update-
I've had a nice break this week. Feeling less angry, more grounded, but still some sad moments. Great to reconnect with old friend, had an awesome massage, and the conference has been outstanding!

Tonight I started reading back through all my journaling since BD. It's very interesting- I can see H's cycling patterns, my cycling patterns, and many of the triggers other than our M that sometimes push H back into the tunnel. I could also see how the issues gradually moved from me and M being the problem to him realizing that most of this is his stuff. Nice to see forward motion by reviewing all if this.
My journaling has been much less the last two months b/c I have significantly backed off. I'm letting him take his journey and figure out his chit. It's hard not knowing what's going through his head, but I think before I was enabling him to not face his fears by still keeping things essentially the same for him.
I think his awakening happened when he became suicidal in January. Best I can tell he is now in withdrawal and maybe " peeking" out of the tunnel. He is reconnecting with the kids. Not as much with family ( trying but he thinks they hate him).

In any case- I am not stage obsessed or trying to predict- I more wanted to look at " the year in review" and see where progress has occurred in both of us. I'm actively working on " inner child" healing and this was a nice way also to see how I respond to things and how that's changed over time.

Keep trying to tell myself the journey is the reward........

[Shining]

Tonight I started reading back through all my journaling since BD. It's very interesting- I can see H's cycling patterns, my cycling patterns, and many of the triggers other than our M that sometimes push H back into the tunnel. I could also see how the issues gradually moved from me and M being the problem to him realizing that most of this is his stuff. Nice to see forward motion by reviewing all if this.

I completely relate to this on so many levels. I, too, am enabling H to not look inward, every time I see him or make myself so readily available. I'm getting here....slowly. Your post is encouraging for me. Thanks, daring.

And I agree, the journey is the reward. You are well on your way.

[daring]

Thanks Shining- I hear you!

So I just got knocked into crazy..... I'm spending day with the kids going to a play and D13 casually mentions that she wants to do yoga. But she doesn't want to do it with daddy who is going to have someone come to his house 2-3 times per week. WTF??? S16 and S8 knew about it too.
Of course none of them think anything of it.
Meanwhile- I am an emotional wreck! Because I know him all too well- he is feeling empty, he is still working on himself, and if some single chic comes to his apt to teach him yoga and the kids aren't there??? He is going to f¥€k her!!
He can't help himself right now b/c he is desperate for attention to validate his empty self worth.

So luckily I have a few hours to calm down first while watching the play. But I know I have to say something- I won't be able to leave it alone. And I feel like I need to say this- " If you are thinking of sleeping with or dating someone else, than I would appreciate out of respect to me you completing the paperwork first.

Thoughts???

I needed to add that H has never done yoga in his life nor has he ever been interested and I seriously doubt he is turning over a new leaf!

[Georgiabelle]

Daring,

I don't always post to your thread but I do follow along. I think a comment like that to your h would be a preemptive strike and the reality is that you can't control what he does. There is a great deal of speculation in that post including the yoga teacher would automatically do the humpy schlumpy with a student. Let's slow our roll.

Relax. I know you love h and want to save the M. The reality is you need to let him go. You can only control you- not what he says, thinks or does. And you know that!

Hang in there. Keep the focus on you, the kids, and congrats on that honor again.

[daring]

Georgiabelle- thank you! You are so so right. Lots of assumptions in there.
Unfortunately I have an idea who it might be and if so the " humpy schlumpy" ( I totally love the term!) is more likely as its someone I think might crush on him a little. But it may not be her. And if it is, well, can't do much about it as you said.
Clearly this is more about me and my insecurities and self worth, and childhood history, and so forth.....

So you will be proud to know that I STFU when I saw him. Had to swing by his apt after the play to pick up some things for the kids. I prayed on the drive- ALOT!! And I wasn't sure which direction God was leading me about the issue other than the very large 2X4 that came down with a loud "DON'T" attached to it.

So we went in and H knows me so well so he said- Are you ok? I said no not really but I will be. He sat down on the couch near me, and kept looking at me like he clearly wanted to talk and ask me more- I looked over and innocently said "what?" He shook his head and said " nothing". I think he was afraid to ask and I'm glad b/c that way the duct tape stayed in place

So after I got back to my house I texted him b/c I forgot to give him his mail. Said I would hold it till he's back from traveling midweek. He said thanks- then texted sorry for whatever was stressing you. I texted back saying thanks was just a rough day. Then he sent back- apparently made rougher by seeing me.
I didn't want him to think I didn't want to be around him so I chose my words carefully and texted back- no it was not made worse at all. Just hard.

Hopefully he will think it was the play that got me upset b/c it's the Broadway version of my favorite movie Dirty Dancing, which already makes me cry and now with my sitch the romance is even harder to watch.

And that's that. I did it for now- didn't lose my mind and say something stupid- yay me! Hopefully the next 24hrs won't be a different story.

[daring]

So I managed not to say anything about the yoga teacher until last night when H brought it up. S8 wanted to face time him and after talking to him handed the phone to me. We chatted for a few minutes about travel schedules and thenH asked if he could borrow D13 for a little while the next night. I said sure what do you have going on? He said he and D13 were going to start doing yoga. I said yeah I heard that your girlfriend I mean yoga teacher is going to come over. ( I know, shouldn't have, but he was being somewhat old H and so humor worked). He said " she's not a girlfriend" and laughed. I told him I don't see him being into yoga. He said " I'm not, but I have to do something to help my tight muscles and get more flexible". Then he added " Especially if I'm going to date a yoga teacher" and laughed. ( yes I know I deserved that one). I told him thanks for sharing that- he said he was joking. And seemed like he really was.
So I feel better about re whole issue. And today in IC I worked on some of the issues that led me to go nutso when I heard about the yoga teacher. Did some EMDR and have some homework to do.

Glad I have this place to vent. Keeps me from losing my cool with H.
I just wonder when my emotions won't feel like a dam^ hurricane that keeps changing course and intensity level!

[CaliGuy]

Daring ... yeah .. I can see how the Yoga thing could set you off, I have been there. You allow yourself to go to crazy vill but then have to have the outer body experience and realize is this really going to happen? The fact he invites D13 ... Good thing ... the fact he joked about it when you tossed the "girlfriend" at him .. another good thing ... if there was any truth to it ... I doubt he would have handled it that way ya know?

Curious ... the EMDR stuff .. how does that work? W started it a month or so ago, I am just curious and dare not ask her anything personal of the sorts ... I read up on it some but still do not understand it. Do you find it helps you?

[daring]

Cali-

Yes the joking helped to decrease the concern about it- though I need to let him go more for sure.

The EMDR- I find it really helps me a lot. The thought is that the eye movements or hand tappers ( I think there are other ways to do it but these are what my therapist uses) basically distract the conscious mind and allow for accessing the subconscious and feelings and memories that were stored in an unhealthy way or that incite certain reactions. Then by continuing to free associate thoughts and memories ( that often do not seem related or to make sense, but the brain " gets it") the thoughts and feelings are rewired and stored in a healthier way. Many times, including today, what I come up with seems a far cry from the issues I'm dealing with. But I leave there feeling better.

The area it has been most studied is PTSD, which makes sense- trying to reframe the trauma in the brain so associations aren't so debilitating.

The one other thing to know is the rewirong process continues at a subconscious level. So your W may be more sensitive to weird things ( ie that window rolling down motion that upset her).

[CaliGuy]

NOW ya tell me .... lol

I too need to let go more too... Realizing its my own fear of losing her completely has actually helped ... because I realized the W I am letting go of is not one I really want right now anyways .. I was holding on to the one I remember, yanno .. the nice one. I see a glimpse now n then ... but till I see more of that one I must let the zombie go. Looking big picture, if the MLC said today .. ok sorry I am back in the M we both know as much as we would love to say "About time get in here" it would last a few hours and off they go again. There is a good deal of damage to repair, and this will not be done before they get off the MLC gravel road and decide to take the paved one home, or to where ever they would rather go.