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Good to hear from you AJ.
I understand what you are saying here and you are right. I guess it's not as much of my "trying" to read what is going on but more like how I come away feeling after I talk to her. How it seems like maybe she actually was being honest and didn't have any ulterior motive and then finding out that that wasn't the case.

I know I have to stop doing even that. I have to understand that I can't take ANYTHING my W says or does on face value and just know that in the end she is out to get as much as she can get and doesn't care about anything BUT herself. It's just that I've never been that kind of person and neither was she (WAS being the operative word) and it's hard for me to think that way. I need to learn to and quickly!

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Originally Posted By: Matt165
Oh Boy! I swear I'm so bad at reading what is going on with my W anymore.

So, after the 2 times I have spoken and seen my W over the last couple days, I find out that there is a reason for all this. My lawyers office called and although I only got a message, it looks like my W is playing hardball about the house!It's so bad that my lawyer wants to set up an appt. to speak with me and he's already been paid. He charged me a flat fee so for him to want to take time out and see me that is not good. I swear, my W is just so different than the person she used to be. I know she is in crisis, I know she is wanting what she wants and wants it now but I just don't get her.

First, "I'll never get a D"...this lasted 25 YEARS. Than, "I want a D, and I don't want to try". This lasted a few months. Than "I think it would be best for us to just separate. I know people that have been separated for over a year and it works for them" (at that time she gave all kinds of reason why it was better from money to the kids). That lasted a month. Then it was "I went to see a lawyer because my dad "made me" and I decided to file. But don't worry you don't need a lawyer of your own because we don't have anything much to split up and you can have the house". Than came the taking everything SHE wanted, putting my D14 in the school that was close to her even though it's 30 miles away from me, the freaking out if I just asked to keep something that we bought during the M. Then came her "Final Decree" where she offered to "allow" me to live rent free in the house until D14 was "18 and a day" and then sell it and she gets half.

I'm so disgusted with her behavior, who she has become, what is important to her and what means nothing. The fact that she will not even slow down and doesn't care even a tiny bit that she is hurting me, her kids, heck, herself. She won't even talk to me about what is going on with my d14's school. It's like I'm just this thing that's in her way. I read on here all the time where WAS's at least speak to the LBS. They are decent to them at least some of the time. They actually make attempts to "co-parent". My W won't even say thank you or acknowledge anything I do for her or D14. She is totally caught up in herself and her father. Oh, I just found out that her father has been "disciplining" D14 when he stays with my W. The man doesn't have the right to do that nor is he in a position to tell her how to act considering the kind of person HE is.

I guess what I'm saying is that my W has been in her MLC for at least a few years. By this time I would think that she would at least made some progress seeing that me and her M may not be the thing that has caused her so much pain and unhappiness but that's just not the case. I now am starting to think that there is no hope that I will ever see her as anything but someone that I would rather never have a thing to do with again in my life.The thing is I will need to deal with her in the future. There will always be times where we will need to see each other and important times at that. Someday my D's will get M. I don't want to make that an awkward time for them where they have to worry about if mom brings a date or dad does. Have to keep the families apart, etc. I so wanted, if it had to happen, that we could do this in a way that we could avoid any of the usual crap that comes along with D and my W said the same. But, just like everything else, she says one thing but does another.

I'm not spinning here, so don't get that idea. I'm just tired of having to deal with all that my W has caused. Having to always be responding to her latest "change of heart". Having to put up with knowing she is not doing what is best for my d14 and knowing there is nothing I can do to stop her. I'm starting to think maybe I should just sell the house "as is" if I can and give up the fight. I just am so tired and I know for sure that my W will never stop, never change, never be able to see past herself at what may be best for everyone. If I could I'd do like Heather and find a job far away and move there with my D's and never have to see my W again.

This is more or less a vent. A statement that no matter what I do to change, my W will never see me as anything but a block to her joy. She won't be happy until does everything she can to erase the last 26 years like they never happened. Until nothing is left of all the hard work of the last 20 years. No home. No family. Nothing at all. That makes me so unhappy and I really just no longer have faith in anyone. If my W, the person who I gave so much of myself to, worked so hard for can do this, can become such a different person, selfish uncaring person. How am I ever going to trust anyone ever again?


So I ask...

What did you think MLC is about ???






You are giving her way too much power over your life...

When you stop, things will change for you..

Until then, you trying to change it, control it, and manipulate it, will only drive YOU insane...

You are causing your own pain Matt...

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Matt, you keep doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. That's just craziness, ya know?

So, you cant trust anything that she says. You knew this already. She aint who she was. That's just the way it is. The sooner you accept that, the better off you'll be. You dont get her because you arent in crisis.

So, first you tell all the ways your wife has changed her mind over and over, then you say she will never stop or change.

Matt, she is crazy. She may change, she may not. The only person you have control over is you. That's it. Not her, not her father. You have to let that all go or you are going to go round and round and round.

Accept what is, even though it succks. Let go of the rest. Protect yourself and your children as best you can. Understand that no matter how many times you write or think about the situation or her or her father, it isnt going to change right now.

Be the man you want to be. Be the father you want to be. Leave her to her cray cray. Just get out of the way of it. You dont want to get any of it on you. smile.

Time to let it go, Matt. That is the way out of this for you. I know its so hard, but, it is what you have to do in order to come out whole.

You can learn to trust again one day. But I wouldnt worry about that right now. You need to take back control of your life. You are giving it all to her.

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Matt,

Yes, you're spinning once again.

Way back before in your earlier posts, I said that W may stay stuck for a long, long time. Or possibly forever. One can never know with the MLC....it is an invisible disease with no diagnosis or cure. crazy

Originally Posted By: Mach
What did you think MLC is about ???


Just about as fun as trying to pin some wet, semi-gelled jello on the wall.

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Hmmm... maybe it's time to try something new here...

Matt, every time you make one of those "I can't believe what my W is doing, this is so unfair, I'm a victim and it's all her evil daddies fault" posts, (or even just allow yourself to get stuck thinking like that) I want you to imagine me punching you in the face. (with love of course)

I hope I made you laugh buddy, now get to work and make us all proud of you. You CAN do this. You HAVE to.

Last edited by ForeverYoung; 09/22/14 11:22 PM.

M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
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Originally Posted By: Matt165
First, "I'll never get a D"...this lasted 25 YEARS. Than, "I want a D, and I don't want to try". This lasted a few months. Than "I think it would be best for us to just separate. I know people that have been separated for over a year and it works for them" (at that time she gave all kinds of reason why it was better from money to the kids). That lasted a month. Then it was "I went to see a lawyer because my dad "made me" and I decided to file. But don't worry you don't need a lawyer of your own because we don't have anything much to split up and you can have the house". Than came the taking everything SHE wanted, putting my D14 in the school that was close to her even though it's 30 miles away from me, the freaking out if I just asked to keep something that we bought during the M. Then came her "Final Decree" where she offered to "allow" me to live rent free in the house until D14 was "18 and a day" and then sell it and she gets half.



Hey Matt. Same garbage I got, and you know what? It's all par for the course in MLC land. Some things, you just have to accept. I know it's tough. I know it's frustrating, and I know you just want to understand WHY?

Believe me, Matt, I have a looooong way to go. I still try to figure things out. But I just want to share some things that have helped me from spinning over things. Trust me, I still spin, but not as often or as long. But, I can tell that some of the bigger things, some things I struggled in the beginning, are still affecting you.

First, you have to accept the fact that she is gone. Whatever you have to tell yourself to get through that, do it. Will she come back? Who knows? But for now, you just need to put her aside. You don't want to deal with crazy. So don't. What helped me detach from this was thinking (and trust me I was hoping and praying he'd come back) that if he wanted me, he'd come back. I would think, he knows how I feel. He knows I want to be married to him. If he wants me, he knows where to find me. I am worth him putting forth effort. If he doesn't, then why would I want to be in that r with someone who does not put effort into me and does not want to be with me.

Next, as far as the house and things. XH pretty much screwed me. He felt very entitled and took whatever. I still think he was hiding money, etc. Many things we agreed on, he did not follow through. I could have gone to battle with him. Here was my thinking, it is my s's senior year. He has had a tough couple years. I want to be there for him emotionally, mentally, etc. I did not want to waste his last year of high school in an emotional, mental, and physically draining battle.

I made sure I had enough of what I needed to take care of my kids. I picked up a couple odd jobs to make a little extra cash (things that would not interfere with time with my kids, and since they are older, I can do that better). I decided to cut my loses. The fight was not worth the time and emotional energy it was going to take from my kids. I realize it is not always like that and everyone's sitch is different, but you have to find a balance.

I remember xh was ticked off one day bc he saw what child support was (his l was way wrong... even though I told him ahead of time... whatever). Anyway, he was in full-blown monster rage. He followed me home (from l's office, which he would show up to my appts and wait in the waiting room and call and text me while I was in there). He was hooting and hollering, and I told him to give me the key to the house. He went home and changed and came back and started clearing stuff out. I was mowing at the time (or he probably would have taken that). He was trying to tick me off. He totally cleaned out the shed, took everything. Things that my parents had given us(his parents have never given us ONE thing- not that I care, but c'mon, he was taking that to bother me). He took the propane tank for the grill, we had 2 seed spreaders and he took both, things he didn't need, and some things that were my grandfather's.

I was getting so agitated, but I didn't argue. I finally said (as he was filling up the utility trailer- he had his brother helping him)to him, "You know what, xh, if taking this is what is going to make you happy in life, then go for it. Have fun."
Yeah, I was ticked, but I wasn't going to give him the battle he wanted. Normally, I would have had my tail-feathers high in the air, and been going off- something I did when I felt I needed to put up a fight. But I left. I got in my car and drove off. I left him to the house to do whatever. He texted me and I ignored it. I waited a couple hours before I returned.

I would get ticked sometimes when I needed something. And now the thought of my stuff being with hww (stuff my parents bought and that was my grandpa's) could make me see red, but I just kept telling myself, they are just things. I am over it now. Things can be replaced. It is not going to kill me. I needed my sanity! I needed to put it in perspective for my kids' sake. Honestly, Matt, this has helped me detach and move away from the crazy.

For me, doing this, was one of the biggest growths I've had. I just let it go. Again, I know it is not fit for everyone's sitch, but the point is to find a balance. What can you emotionally remove yourself from for the sake of detaching or peace? It's hard, but you can do it. It makes it easier in the long-run.

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Wow, Mighty. I think the name really suits you!

Following and hollering at you? Following you to to and from Lawyers office and texting you? All because HE got some young thing knocked up? Wow, now that IS crazy! As for the fact that "..she is gone..", I really wish she was. The truth of the matter is she will never be totally gone. She will always be in my D's lives so therefore my life. Oh, how I wish she would just have run off and disappeared. Of course, I'm sure that many here feel the same.

The thing I'm most bothered by is that I keep having to fight for things that I shouldn't need to fight for. For the life of me, I just can't understand my W's need to take "things", now including my home (which she has said over and over she "hates" because it's "unhappy"). I actually can see something like what your H did. Taking things just because he was angry and wanted to hurt you. Stupid and juvenile, but I can see someone doing that. What my W is seemly doing is trying to take anything and everything of value that we ever had. At the same time she also wants to be the martyr who is having to pay for "everything". She told me that she has had to buy clothes for D14 because she "needs to have a set of clothes for when she stays with me". Now, she has plenty of clothes for school. The only reason she needs more is because my W decided to leave. Doesn't it make sense that if she wants her to have more just because she needs to live half the time with her simply because she wanted to leave me and destroy her family, that it stands to reason she should be paying for that? If she so hated living here why would she want to just recreate the same home only 30 miles away? Are MLCers so irrational that she actually believes that she is in the right? I hear you Wonka....you can't reason with crazy and I need to stop doing that. You are right. But I still get so frustrated at times. I'm trying so very hard to get on with my life, one without my W as my W. I'm stressed, I'm trying to make ends meet, make sure my D14 has a stable parent and make a better life for myself and my D's. Having to deal with w's crazy is just not helping.

I'm tired of having to be the one who has to be there for my D14 when she is with me and also when she is with her mother. I'm tired of having to take my time and energy and devote it to fighting for what any rational person would see as reasonable for me to get after so many years of working so hard, of taking care of someone who was "sick", of being the sole "bread winner" for most of our M, especially since I wasn't the one who ended the M. I just want this whole thing to be over and done with but I'm not going to just roll over and give her everything either.

I see my W looking like she hasn't slept, being way too thin and gaunt. Every time I have seen her even when she was out with her relatives early after she left and she was still inviting me to family events, I never see her smile. How is it she still thinks I'm the cause of her unhappiness? She sure doesn't look any happier than before she left! I don't want her to see this so she changes her mind about our M. I really believe that boat has sailed. I would just like for her to maybe see this so that we could maybe be able to actually co-parent our D's in a way that is healthy and where we could maybe work together for their good at least.

Yes, I deserve the 2x4's. Yes, this is stuff I've been through before but now I have to go see my lawyer and take time off work and out of my life. I have to answer her demands from her lawyer. I have to act nice, when I'm around her because my D14 is always there. I have to hold my tongue when my 14 year old D says how much she likes not having anyone around when she gets home from school until 8:00 at night. She may like it because she's a teenager but it isn't good for her. And at the same time I can't trust my W, even when she seems to be being reasonable. I know that this is just the facts of life for me now and i just need to get used to it. But man it sure can be a pain!

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Originally Posted By: Matt165
What my W is seemly doing is trying to take anything and everything of value that we ever had. At the same time she also wants to be the martyr who is having to pay for "everything". She told me that she has had to buy clothes for D14 because she "needs to have a set of clothes for when she stays with me". Now, she has plenty of clothes for school. The only reason she needs more is because my W decided to leave. Doesn't it make sense that if she wants her to have more just because she needs to live half the time with her simply because she wanted to leave me and destroy her family, that it stands to reason she should be paying for that?


To her ?

Yes, is makes complete sense....

Just because your plan is different, doesn't make it right...


Originally Posted By: Matt165

If she so hated living here why would she want to just recreate the same home only 30 miles away?


What is the ONE thing that is different in that equation ??

Not trying to bash you, just trying to keep it real here.




Originally Posted By: Matt165

Are MLCers so irrational that she actually believes that she is in the right?


Uhm....yea ???

Why would you say that she is wrong with what she feels ???





Originally Posted By: Matt165

Yes, I deserve the 2x4's. Yes, this is stuff I've been through before but now I have to go see my lawyer and take time off work and out of my life. I have to answer her demands from her lawyer. I have to act nice, when I'm around her because my D14 is always there. I have to hold my tongue when my 14 year old D says how much she likes not having anyone around when she gets home from school until 8:00 at night. She may like it because she's a teenager but it isn't good for her. And at the same time I can't trust my W, even when she seems to be being reasonable. I know that this is just the facts of life for me now and i just need to get used to it. But man it sure can be a pain!


Once again....

Please...

Stop trying to control this and manipulate it, to get what YOU want....

You aren't working toward anything positive for yourself, and you are playing just as convincing "martyr" card, as she...

You aren't the victim in this...unless you allow yourself to be...

Make a plan for YOUR future, and work toward that....

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Hey Matt, When I was cleaning and sorting stbxw's years of almost hoarding, I found myself getting angry again, because she didn't HAVE to just take what she wanted, she could help, she is just a few miles away with no responsibility, etc.

That anger was not helping me, at all. I was getting short with the kids, and getting less done.

I had to change MY mindset or I was not going to be who I wanted to be...

She wasnt and isnt going to help, THAT was reality...

Quote:
Matt and Mighty, some realizations came to me since June, granted I've had 3 years (BD #1 anniversary this month) to come to terms with the possible loss of my M, these still came fast and hard, because though I don't easily quit, once I do get to the point of futility, I drop the rope fast and hard. Here is what came to me:

She's gone.

I need to heal, I have kids full time, work 40-60 hours a week, I am taxi and school bus service, and I have a disaster of a house to remedy, etc... Like the Van Halen line from the song "Ain't Talking About Love" goes... "I got no time to mess around..."

I had to see my life without her, hard as that was.

My healing has nothing to do with her anymore.

Nothing she can do or say is going to change how I feel. It's about me.

It's up to ME.

So I re-framed this into "as if" she died.

Absolutely no chance of reconciliation, her changing her mind, etc.

How does that change how I feel?

How does that change MY ACTIONS in recovering, healing myself and my kids, getting to the needful?

Life is for the living, and my kids and I are far too blessed to be waiting around for a ghost to maybe re-appear and be re-incorporate, meanwhile life passes by.

That mindset change gave me strength and determination to do the right things for my sons and myself. To tackle the hoarders hoard, organize, super-clean, create the NEW normal in a positive, healthy way. My kids deserved it, and it was completely up to ME to make it happen.


Changing my mindset ^^^ helped me be better, how could I be blaming her for not helping if she had "died"? How could I be so angry at her if she had "died", it wasn't her fault...Ya know?

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Hi Mach,
Umm, why is what she doing the "right" thing or "wrong" just because it's different than my plan? Well, for starters it is wrong to take more than your share in any situation. In a community property state it should be very cut and dry 50/50. That includes EVERYTHING. To her anything that we acquired during the time that I was the only one working should be 50/50 (or better towards her) and anything we acquired in the time since she went back to work should be ALL hers. Not only doesn't it make sense, it goes against the law. I do get that what you are saying is that this is the way she see's things, I just don't think any "rational" person would. (And I know she's not rational but isn't her lawyer at least rational enough to tell her that she is out of line?)

I would agree that the one thing different is that I'm not living there except for the fact that, even now, she says it wasn't as much me as it was that it wasn't "happy" where we lived. Of course that is what she says and that is meaningless so....(nor am I hurt by it any longer. If she really can't see how hard I worked for her, how much I tried in our M, that's on her!)

I'm so dang sick and tired of her "feelings" and the fact that they are more important than facts, what's best for her kids (yes, this is how I see it but it's also the way most people would see things), that as soon as they change everything changes with them. I'm sick of her "feelings" being hurt by this or that or that because she "feels" depressed/anxious she should be given slack because she is "sick" so it's not her fault. I have lived with a person ruled by her "feelings" for years and now I have no choice but to deal with her and try to keep as much as I can of what I worked for for the last 20 years.

What I'm doing is trying to NOT be a victim here at least where the D is concerned. If she gets to keep all she has already taken AND the house, along with the fact that she gets to have D14 going to school a mile away while I have to drive 30 miles, I will be a victim! My plan for my future involves whether or not I get to keep my house. If I do I'm going to fix it up and make it my own. We let it go for years because W wanted to move so badly so we figured why put the money or effort into it? Well, if it's now "mine" I will put that effort in. If I can only live there until D14 is out of HS, I'm not doing squat to it to improve it.

I will say this. I have come up with a plan over the last 2 days. If my W has to cash in her retirements and pay for all the antiques she says are "morally" hers, it's a wash at the value of the house as is. Not to mention she has our barn filled with her crap that she has collected over the years or that she brought with her when we got M. Stuff she hasn't looked at in years. She will need to store that stuff somewhere or get rid of it. As of now she just thinks that she can leave it there at least for the next 4 years. The only advantage she gets is that she thinks that I will take the offer because I won't need to rent a place like her. That and the fact that she screws with my life some more.

I guess what it boils down to is I don't want to be a victim. If I let her have her way like this I will be. I will have NOTHING to show for the last 20 years of work and sacrifice (except a good relationship with my Daughters). It just sticks in my crawl when she complains about how hard it is. I had to keep everything going while I was the only one working and making a lot less than she is now. Not only that I had just as many bills AND two kids in private school. She never understood how hard that was and now that she is on her own she is feeling the same stress I felt for 15 years, half of that time with her so "depressed" she didn't help out much at all in any way. I'm really losing any feelings of concern or empathy towards my W seeing what she is pushing in the D settlement. The fact that she really expects me to "roll over" and just do what she wants also bugs me. At this point I need to just hold my ground and do what I "feel" is best and whatever she "feels" be damned.

You are right, Mach, I have been feeling like a victim. I don't want that any longer and step one is to fight for what I think is right. Time to take away any power that W has over me at all. If she wants to live the way she is now forever, so be it. I, for one, plan on making a better life away from a depressive S who thinks throwing away the last 26 years is the key to a life of happiness and "joy". Thanks for hitting me upside the head. I needed it!

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