The Goddess of Goats Thrives Alone on Her Mountain

[Ggrass]

Well you can have room mates share house for your safety or a gay bf!

I'm not sure spousal support should be canceled if there is a legit reason why you cannot be home far from town alone. I'm sure you can find one, even if its your health.

[Nitty]

That's what people in the "real world" just DON'T understand.

That our MLCers are not rational people that have simply grown tired of their miserable, loveless, lifeless marriages with spouses who are best left in the dust, who can never change, who are thorns in their sides and albatrosses around their necks.

That they are not, in fact, moving on to wonderful, healthy, happy lives full of personal growth and the love they've never had with us.

Amen, GoatGal. You said it better than I could. I would've quoted the entire post but it would've taken up a lot of room. Just imagine that I quoted the entire post, ok?

[Matt165]

Hey GGG(G),
I'm with Nitty, loved that quote! My W has in fact stated several times that she is almost certain she will spend the rest of her life alone, could never find anyone who treated her any where close to how well I have. But at the same time spews at me and blames me for every bad thing she has ever had happen or "felt" in the last 21 years! How does that make ANY sense? They act like children that get angry and tell mommy (or daddy) "I hate you!" just because they feel that way at that moment. You are right about how others just don't get it. Even her "friends" can't understand why she is doing what she is (If they were real friends they would tell HER that but they have to work with her so they just say what she wants to hear).

If only my W could have acted the way you described. Logical reasons, considering the kids lives and how they will be affected by her actions, not being selfish and throwing tantrums and not changing history or making up things that I have done (that I never did) to justify her actions. Now that would be something that, while it would stink to give up on a 21 year M, break up a family, would be so much easier to get through.

I'm starting to believe that a large number of M's end due to MLC, more than most people think. My W likes to tell me about other people who D their H's because of really stupid reasons like that makes what she is doing OK. But it gives me an idea, like when she told me about someone who D because her H didn't "give her enough sex", that that person was probably in a MLC! She was looking for reasons why she wasn't happy and found that one. (You would think that would be a easy problem to fix :))

You sound like you are really doing well GGG. Keep going that way, you deserve it!

[daring]

GGG I am with you on the fact that no one gets it- so glad we have this board to vent with people who understand!

I have friends who are actually upset with me b/c they think I'm putting up with BS that I shouldn't. They cause me more stress as I feel regardless of what they think they are my friends and should support my decisions. I've learned that most of the time their upset has more to do with projection on me of their own issues.
I've distanced myself and focus on the friends that can be supportive.

Keep posting on your outings- I love hearing about dancing and skinny dipping!

[Maybell]

GGG, I agree with your analysis of why people outside this experience don't understand standing.

But I don't know that we can really assume we would break up a marriage the way you describe. I think that in order to get to the point that breaking up a marriage is the right choice, you have to be a little cuckoo. If you were rational, and had been in a long-term marriage as you describe, and really cared about the other person, then the work to repair would have happened. I know I was checked out six years ago. I know for sure if I could have left my H at that time, I would have, and there would have been nothing rational, kind, or reasonable about that choice.

What was rational, kind, and reasonable was my realizing my part in my own unhappiness and the steps I took to repair things before I made them worse.

And if I could have been rational, kind, or reasonable about his unhappiness, of which the affair was basically just a symptom, I would not have an eight month period of begging and pleading to my (dubious) credit.

I say this not as any kind of 2x4, but as a reminder that long-term marriages are, by their nature, emotional beasts, and "I would have done it differently" isn't really fair or knowable. I like to think I would have done it better, but I don't have any evidence at all to back that up and so it would be better not to make that assertion. Because sooner or later, it's probably going to kick me in the a$$. Almost every single "I would never have..." statement does.

Love your new thread title!!!

[GoatGal]

Maybell,

I agree with much of what you said above.

Even though in hindsight I can see that I was compensating pretty heavily on my own for some growing discontent in my M with H, my thoughts of leaving him were fleeting because, like you, I understand that marriages are living things and experience highs and lows.

We're only human and can only do the best we can with what we have to work with at the time.

That said, I believe there are rational and positive reasons to leave a marriage.

There is adultery, abuse (emotional/physical), your safety is threatened (physical/financial), or your children are at risk

Or there is addiction, dishonesty, emotional distancing, an intimacy desert.

If the affected spouse does not take responsibility for their actions and work towards change.
If there is serious mental illness, arrests/incarceration, or abandonment.
(Whether actual or emotional.)
If the spouse deliberately withholds physical affection and emotional support.

These situations describe toxic relationships and I wouldn't blame anyone for leaving under such circumstances.

It's our choice to stand. I would hope that none of us would WANT to tolerate the above conditions were they to become permanent.

We are worth more than that.
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That said, I believe in only walking away if you have done everything in your power to save your M.

It takes two to make a R work, but only one to destroy it.

In the end, they must cooperate.

I don't believe on leaving a spouse because they become ill, unable to meet my needs through no fault of their own.
That comes with the promise "for better or for worse".

But if our spouses continue to choose behaviors which are harmful to us, show no signs of changing, well in my case there is an expiration date on that.
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I described the way I would go about a divorce because, if nothing changes with GUBU, I will initiate proceedings to finalize things if he does not.

And it would look very much as I said: Rational, final, well-thought out.
I wouldn't have any anger at him.
I would just know that he no longer wants to be/is able to be a partner I could trust, depend on, feel safe with, feel connected to.

I don't want to live like that down the road if GUBU is the best he has to offer.

My husband had issues--we all do---but his good points outweighed his bad ones.

GUBU has very little to recommend him, as a handy man, much less a husband.

I am giving him all the time I can to figure himself out.
But the truth is, he might never.

In that case, I must move on for my own well-being.


-------GGG

[Maybell]

GGG(G), yes, but...

* You've been here.

* You've already been dealing with this for a long time and have had time to get to that place.

* You're not MLC, which as you know is not a rational mind. So you are capable of rational thought and unselfishness.

* You weren't the one who opened the divorce conversation.

* You aren't acting out against any particular guilt for having hurt your H impacting the way you respond to him (meaning the affair, etc.; not the stuff you have changed since BD)

If your original point was how you WILL go about dissolving the marriage when you get to that point, then I apologize for misreading. If your point was how your H should have behaved when he decided he wanted out, then I think mine stands. Honestly, EVERY time I say "I would" or "I would never" it comes back to haunt me. So I try to avoid saying it now. Because life is long and chaotic.

As far as making the decision that you are done standing and have decided to move on, I don't think there's a soul on earth who would reasonably fault you for that decision, nor for being snotty about it when you go to implement.

I hope we're on the same page -- I'd hate for you to misunderstand that I'm essentially agreeing but with caveats.

[GoatGal]

Maybell,

I think we are on the same page.

I was only trying to contrast the way a rational adult who is not in the throes of a crisis might go about dissolving a marriage for (what I consider to be) "legitimate" issues,
vs. the type of behavior we see in our spouses who are no longer interested in being married.


"I was unhappy and while I was searching (on the Internet!) for the reason, I came up with YOU!"--- to me is not a "legitimate" issue.

To be clear, I am not done standing.
I am just doing a lot of soul-searching.
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The way GUBU has gone about this speaks volumes to his state of mind and inability to look within for the source of his troubles.

MLC or not, life-long issues which have never been dealt with--call it what you like--he is not behaving like a man who has thought things through with any clarity.

It is my opinion that he will live to regret the decisions he's made, and will one day truly regret that he let me go with not a wimper of protest.

No. I don't think he could have done better.
I think he is messed up beyond belief.
How long I am willing to live with that is the question.
I have never abandoned friends and family in their hour of need, and will not abandon him either. I believe he is ill, in one sense or another.

But at some point, I need to think of myself. I can't live with someone who treats me like something they tried to scrape off their shoe but still stinks.
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I have done nothing to him, other than yell at him for cheating on me and betraying my trust, and throwing him out when he served me with D papers, yet somehow, he feels like he is the "victim", or so he says.

At this point, I don't think he's capable of much in the way of looking down the road at the consequences of his behavior, or looking inside himself for answers to deal with how he feels.
He doesn't feel good around me anymore, (doesn't matter WHY), therefore the solution is to just get rid of me.

"No bad feelings allowed" should be his motto.
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He appears to have no real compassion for me, or hides it well.
It's all about HIM, what HE wants, what HE needs.
He's unapologetically stated this several times.

To be honest, most of his communication with me has "I want" at its core.
And when I've balked at obeying his command, he lashes out in one way or another.
It's getting really old.

He's been treating me like crap for more than two years.

While he's said---proudly--"I lie like a rug" and "I am a master manipulator".

When I recall these things, and other seemingly small things from over the years, I wonder if there is any hope for him to improve.

And I also remember really great times with a man who was so different, so generous, sociable, who liked people, who loved and respected me.
I do believe that man was REAL. I married him.
But he's not here anymore. Not that I can see.

That man seems gone for good. And I am not interested in being married to his replacement, is all.

I believe that this is not about me, or OW, (real or imagined).
I think this is about him, his pain, his problems; all of which have finally caught up to him and he has no where else to run.

I'm just collateral damage. I don't believe his goal is to hurt me, but he will continue to hurt me until I put a stop to it.
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Still, I'm waiting it out, much to the chagrin of friends, family, and potential suitors.

That's my choice, to wait and watch and see.

At least I want to know I gave it as much time as I could before throwing in the towel.

But in the meantime, I need some emotional distance from him to feel safe and get my head straight.
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I have also contacted a DBing coach, just trying to figure out how to pay for it.
Then I can say that I tried that too...


---GGG

[Wonka]

GGG,

It seems to me that for various reasons we're on a Soul-Searching path this week here in DB land. Makes me wonder "what gives!" Super Moon? Whatever the reason behind our quiet contemplative moods, we are inching toward and arriving at our own truths with each revelation slowly peeling away one by one.

Interesting process, isn't it?

[BrightFuture]

But I don't know that we can really assume we would break up a marriage the way you describe. I think that in order to get to the point that breaking up a marriage is the right choice, you have to be a little cuckoo. If you were rational, and had been in a long-term marriage as you describe, and really cared about the other person, then the work to repair would have happened. I know I was checked out six years ago. I know for sure if I could have left my H at that time, I would have, and there would have been nothing rational, kind, or reasonable about that choice.

Maybell, you described exactly what I am thinking too. I just had a hard time expressing it.
And this:

I say this not as any kind of 2x4, but as a reminder that long-term marriages are, by their nature, emotional beasts, and "I would have done it differently" isn't really fair or knowable. I like to think I would have done it better, but I don't have any evidence at all to back that up and so it would be better not to make that assertion. Because sooner or later, it's probably going to kick me in the a$$. Almost every single "I would never have..." statement does.

I was almost a WAS six years ago too. Only now I realize that it was about me not being happy, and that my actions at that time DID hurt H. This might be the reason he is doing the same thing to me now. IDN. I also refrain from saying “I would never have” statement.

From H’s point of view, he HAD the reasons to end the marriage. It was too much for him to handle the things he didn’t like in our marriage. Was there a way to repair what was not working? Absolutely “YES”. It was not only my fault, he contributed to whatever behavior of mine was not likeable to him. He just didn’t want to do the work. He wanted a different partner where he would not have to try and everything would be happening naturally. He decided that our M didn’t work anymore and it would be beneficial for both of us to end it. Yes, he decided for me too and convinced himself that I would be better off without him.

Then, comes the rest… Wanting to be the best friends, not wanting to be the best friends, not wanting to file for D, then wanting to file for D, then not filing for D…

Wonka, it must be the full moon .