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It's been a year since I last logged in. What am I doing? Living my life. I have good days and bad days. I am a grandfather now. Some of the fallout is kids who act out and forget what they have been told repeatedly so my middle child is now a father. Unfortunately, he is no longer seeing the mother of his child and he is not seeing his daughter like he should. I like seeing my granddaughter even though it isn't as often as I'd like. She is precious. Also unfortunately, the situation where she lives is not the best. The mothers parents are very unusual and seem to think of their house as a rescue for troubled teens. Like I said, it is not the best place for my granddaughter to live.

Now to my recent challenge. To be honest, I don't put much weight with therapists (not including you Michele). The majority of the ones I have met through the years (my ex wife is a therapist herself) are usually as much or more troubled than their clients. I also believe in taking responsibility for my actions and not passing the blame.

Which comes to the issue with my children's therapist. All three go to the same one. I am not impressed with her. She is a nice person but I just don't think she helps. She is good at encouraging the kids to blame others for issues where I think my children should own them.

Today, I mentioned to her (via text) that I am concerned with my soon to be 18 year old. I see him acting less mature, curses like a sailor no matter who is around, completing ignoring school (his progress report arrived and he has 3 As which are easy classes and 3 Fs), and I am concerned that he may be getting high after school with friends (who come from extremely troubled homes). He plays an instrument in orchestra and has for 7 years. he is now ignoring that as well and actually got into a loud argument in class yesterday dropping F-bombs. His teacher called him on that and confiscated his cell after he started texting someone in class.

Today, during a text with his therapist, mentioning my concerns, she stated that it would help my children if they saw me move on with my life. Since I actually get together often with my mom (I was not not close with my mom while I was growing up and until I had children, I didnt spend much time with her except holidays so now I see her because she is 73 and I dont know how long she will be here) and I ride my motorcycle as much as I can (I bought it to actually have a hobby and not stay at home all the time), the only thing I could imagine was that she meant dating.

I do not want to date. I admit, I am leaving it in God's hands if it is possible to restore my marriage someday but even if my marriage is never restored, I do not want to date. I have no desire to get involved with another family. I had my family. I have my children. In the past eight years since my wife walked out our door, I have known countless people who have divorced and remarried only to either be in a bad marriage or divorce again, sometime several times.

Yes, for the first couple of years, I was lonely and wanted someone in my life. I decided that I would wait until I was ready. Considering that I had been with my wife for going on thirty years, I knew that it was best to wait until I was over her because it wouldnt be fair to myself or the person I was dating. As time went on, I decided I didnt want to complicate my life and deal with someone new, along with her family, children, issues, etc. I have enough to deal with regarding my own family.

Since I actually am a pretty good actor (and can make myself believe almost anything), I do not act depressed around my kids, even when I am depressed. When I am around any of my kids, I am always trying to get them to do something fun with me. I act cheery and goofy (which comes naturally) so they do not see my crying or walking around with sadness worn on my face.

So i responded to the therapist "are you saying that since I am not dating, it is impacting my children negatively?" She responded that dating may help them and me (understand she is not my therapist and often the interaction she has seen with me and my son is teasing each other). While I take responsibility for not being the husband I could have been, I resent that I am being told that it is my fault that the kids are hurting because I am not dating.

I do not believe in saying anything negative toward their mom and my ex wife. She is still the love of my life and I will never say anything disparaging. I will say that I believe that many of her decisions have negatively impacted the children. I do not know this as a fact but it would impact me if I were one of our children. I can't imagine that it wouldnt. Of course, I consider the root of the problem was bad decisions I made when we were together. If I had done things differently, this may not have happened, ie she would have felt secure and therefore truly loved. She may have left still but then again, she may not have left.

My point is that I do not think that my lack of dating is negatively impacting my children and I will not date unless I want to.

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Quote:
I resent that I am being told that it is my fault that the kids are hurting because I am not dating.


I agree with you. I doubt your lack of dating is negatively impacting your children, unless they are worried about you having no friends and no social life (in which case, get friends and a social life - you don't have to date!). It's actually quite difficult for kids to see their parents with another partner; my dad died when I was a teen and my mom waited a year to date, but it was still hard. I didn't introduce my kids to any of my boyfriends until 4 years after the divorce, and they are in their 20's, but I know they still had a hard time adjusting to seeing me with another man.

kml #2489612 09/17/14 09:41 PM
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KML, thanks. I felt the same way. I work a lot of hours and have to be available (I am in IT) so I spend more time at home than I would prefer but I do have a social life, somewhat. I am sorry you lost your dad at such a young age.

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Hi MMF, I'd like to go on record as saying I admire your stance. You too, Mtnman. (I hope you're still reading around here) Both men of true integrity.

Quote:
In the past eight years since my wife walked out our door, I have known countless people who have divorced and remarried only to either be in a bad marriage or divorce again, sometime several times.


Funny but sad how that works, isn't it? If my M fails, I too am not looking to date. Why complicate my life with something I never wanted? (starting over with a new partner) Just to satisfy others or bow to the pressure of society? No thanks. I'm stronger than that.

But I do worry that you have to hide your depression. Not a good strategy for the long term, right?

Are you satisfied with your social life? If the answer is yes, don't change a thing just for others. No one else besides you gets to decide what is best for you.

But wouldn't it be nice if you found a way to not have to put on an act? Just something to think about.


M: A really long time.
Crisis: 5 years.
She's still worth it.

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I'm a bit confused. The T did not tell you that your kids are in pain "because" you are not dating.

Here's what you said:


So i responded to the therapist "are you saying that since I am not dating, it is impacting my children negatively?" She responded that dating may help them and me (understand she is not my therapist and often the interaction she has seen with me and my son is teasing each other). While I take responsibility for not being the husband I could have been, I resent that I am being told that it is my fault that the kids are hurting because I am not dating.


I think you are putting a spin on her words that isn't there. To be fair, chances are high that she is saying things based only on what your kids tell her.

So, she is sensing or hearing directly that to THEM, you don't seem happy "enough", and in some way they feel responsible for it AND OR impacted.

That does not release your ex-wife from anything; it just means that as of now, not the past 8 years but today,

they are affected by their perception of your happiness, or lack thereof.

Maybe it's a matter of you "acting" better, and or just telling them how you feel.

But the resentment of the T, seems out of line, at least based on this one interaction.

But hey, that's Just my .02


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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PS

MMF I do have a question and I'm being totally sincere and not implying anything negative with this question.

But since you have been here a long time (me too!) I wonder this:

IF your ex wife were to come back and want to reconcile,

How would your marriage be different/better now, than before?

How have you changed?

Also, I have 2 family members who divorced and later remarried their former spouses so yes, it can happen.

But in each of those cases, each party in the couple (i.e. all 4 of them) all worked on themselves quite a lot. I noticed significant growth in my cousin and an incredibly more peaceful aunt.

I doubt the changes were made "For" the former spouse so much as changes they each wanted to make in themselves anyhow. (And yes, they were happier the 2nd time around.)

But again, a lot of work and growth happened within each. Hence my questions.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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25, how have you been? I hope the family is well and you are doing awesome!

In response, in these posts, they don't always share the details. With the therapist, her text was lengthy enough and in response to my comment that my three children are hurting. For example, one child was involved with substance abuse, casual sex, and dropped out of school. Since then this child has received their equivalency diploma and is studying criminal justice (lol) in order to eventually go to law school. Another child has had a rough time with relationships resulting in leaving college, although is planning on going back to school next month. The last one is my youngest who I have gone into depth already.

I am not saying this to boast but I have a gift for being able to understand or determine underlying meaning from both body languange and the words people use. I am not always 100% accurate but typically I learn that I am usually correct even if it takes time to receive proof.

I have known my childrens therapist for six years and I watch her mannerisms and her word choices. Even though the conversation where this issue came up was via texting, there was enough history and experience along with her word choices that led me to believe that she is pointing toward me as the cause, specifically that I am not dating. It isn't the first time she has asked. She isn't the only one. I have been asked by many people and I just casually accept their good intentions instead of justifying the reason I prefer not to date.

She confirmed that she meant "dating" may help my children. She didn't mean going out with friends or joining a club. She specifically said to date. And I know you didn't have that information. I would probably draw the same conclusion if someone else wrote my words.

Something I think is important that I should relate. I am "safe" for my children. They know they will never lose my love and I will always be there for them. I am not saying I will save them from a lesson they need to learn but they know I won't turn my back on them, no matter how bad.

My XW isn't the same, unfortunately. There have been many times that she will cease keeping in touch with friends and even her children, if she feels slighted or disappointed. Please do not get me wrong. She is a good mother but has a flaw. We all have flaws including me, believe it or not.

Her flaw is giving up on people too easy. She has many good character traits. I just wish she didn't give up on others.

The point I am trying to make is that my kids aren't worried about anything they say or do to me. With their mother, they are much more careful. They dare not say anything negative about her. It wasn't until recently that my youngest actually said to me that mom gives up to easily and she left all of us. He kept that to himself for eight years. To my knowledge, he has never said that to his therapist or anyone else. He told me that he didn't want to say that to anyone.

Back to your other questions, would I allow reconciliation?

First, any of this isn't up to me. It would take a literal miracle for a restoration. I have almost stopped praying for a marriage restoration and instead have asked God if He will bring my XW and my children to rely on Him and Him alone. I have even said to Him that I would prefer that over ever having my family whole again. I do not normally share this but it is how I feel.

I do not believe restoration is possible without God in our lives being number one. Some would probably disagree but to me that is why it failed in the first place. If I treated her as God told me to, things may have been different. She may have still left or she may have stayed and worked through these issues but I did not make her feel safe.

I think to answer "how would my marriage be different" relies on "how have I changed."

While I am a work in progress, I sincerely hope that I would treat her as God would want me to, ie to be willing to "sacrifice" myself as Jesus did for the church.

In the past, I got my feelings hurt too easily. I had to be right. I still battle this but I think before I respond now. While many people would argue against this, her feelings would have to be more important than my own. In my opinion, she should never have to worry about me going off when frustrated with work or other situations.

But when it comes down to it, it is up to God. Trusting Him is what I need to do each day.

The question remains, do I love her. Yes. I love her no matter how much I have hurt. I look at my children and have been hurt repeatedly. I still love them. I am called to love my wife only second to God (and of course Jesus). Unconditionally. I think that is where my love comes from because I can't explain it any other way.

Thank you 25.

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Originally Posted By: missmyfriend
25, how have you been? I hope the family is well and you are doing awesome!

In response, in these posts, they don't always share the details. With the therapist, her text was lengthy enough and in response to my comment that my three children are hurting. For example, one child was involved with substance abuse, casual sex, and dropped out of school. Since then this child has received their equivalency diploma and is studying criminal justice (lol) in order to eventually go to law school. Another child has had a rough time with relationships resulting in leaving college, although is planning on going back to school next month. The last one is my youngest who I have gone into depth already.

I am not saying this to boast but I have a gift for being able to understand or determine underlying meaning from both body languange and the words people use. I am not always 100% accurate but typically I learn that I am usually correct even if it takes time to receive proof.


Hey I'm doing well & thanks for asking. We are facing our life choices together and still working on h' relationships with our d's, who were very hurt when he left. More than you might think all these years later, and despite effort on h's part.
Then again, he did leave for a long time.

Anyhow, back to you and the interpretation of what the T said....

As a L, I choose my words with as much precision as possible. I want to be held accountable ONLY for the words I used, not how someone perceives my body language, or other non verbal "communications". I feel as if my career demands that we be "wordsmiths" of sorts, and words are our tools.

But I'd detest thinking people were not hearing what I actually said... Especially since I've had back surgery and am pain often, I'd really dislike it if someone chose to ignore or dismiss (or give less credence to) the words I choose- in favor o their interpretation of other non verbal 'messages". I know I sigh from pain, and wince at times, and really have to watch out for it so no one thinks they'er boring me.

Plus some men are highly sensitive to what professional women say to them, and some would take a male's words at face value - but even with the exact same wording from a female, they tend to read into what a woman says, more so.

I know for a fact that a colleague and subordinate at work, (and my younger brother as well,) have told me in the past that I "speak aggressively" and my brother actually said "it's like you're a man", which was weird. But telling!

I find I have to really soften/sedate my voice when I disagree in court, or negotiations, b/c some men are intimidated or "uncomfortable around women who project authority" (that's actually what my colleague told me).

Though it isn't "fair" - at least I"m aware of it. But it's a guy thing for the most part, or at least it has been with me. I'm petite, but I think the term "lawyer" and speaking directly (and at times TOO bluntly), does bring that out in men with me. (Thank God I'm not tall and husky, or they'd run for the hills I guess).

With my h, if he feels uncomfortable or remorseful for anything, then my tone really gets examined and scrutinized by him, and it's times like that I wish he'd only listen to the content of my words,

-- and NOT his fears or guilt. or whatever else he projects onto me. Like I Said, I really do choose my words carefully...at times I truly do act as if I took a valium, b/c talking to h when he's upset requires it, at least when we discuss the "ordeal" or marital challenge we had...or if he thinks I'm upset with him.

Anyhow, I just don't think it's very fair to the T to go with your gift over her wording.

B/C let's face it, it means in effect, you "get to decide" what people mean to say, even in the face of their contradictory words.

(So why bother having anyone use the spoken word with you? Just look at them and glean their meaning.. ) BTW, Was this something you developed inside your marriage or more so after the divorce?

(I'm not "going anywhere" specific with this, although I found your response to my "Hey, don't mindread", really surprising and I wanted to comment on it).

In my personal general experience, b/c I don't know your children's t, I find that therapists use their words carefully...so I still don't think you can skip that and

1) rely on your gut or your gift, and 2) I definitely disagree with you telling other people that she said 'X', when in fact it's what you inferred & not what she said.

In a way, you are not only mind reading, but you're holding yourself out as qualified to do so. cool Just give that some thought, okay?

Just my .02

I have known my childrens therapist for six years and I watch her mannerisms and her word choices. Even though the conversation where this issue came up was via texting, there was enough history and experience along with her word choices that led me to believe that she is pointing toward me as the cause, specifically that I am not dating. It isn't the first time she has asked. She isn't the only one. I have been asked by many people and I just casually accept their good intentions instead of justifying the reason I prefer not to date.

She confirmed that she meant "dating" may help my children. She didn't mean going out with friends or joining a club. She specifically said to date. And I know you didn't have that information. I would probably draw the same conclusion if someone else wrote my words.

Fair enough. But given the intent behind her opinion, why "resent" it? I don't get that. I DO get why people would tell you to move on, and their belief is that by dating, you'd prove you are not pining for your w still and "refusing to accept reality". It's possible your kids are worried about you.

I'm sure you know that some of the "Standers" here, who are waiting for years really are just waiting....They ARE standing still. They are Not being happy or making the most of their lives, or digging deep to truly work on themselves, or improving or changing...it seems sort of lazy but maybe is more fear based. (for instance maybe they fear they really are unlovable or whatever the WAS told them was wrong with them was ALL true and they're going to die alone and under a bridge...) And they can get self righteous or become martyrs and sniff on the holidays but insist that NOTHING is wrong... and that is a turn off and or --for the kids---maybe yours too---possibly worrisome.

Maybe you can "Act as if" a bit more blatantly. ("Yee haw kids! I'm having a BLAST!!! grin )

Or just tell them you are genuinely content with your life as it is...and be honest with them so they don't worry.

See, imo, IF they are worried about you, that IS probably a hinderance to their growth & happiness, b/c their focus is not on their own path, but yours....

Make sense?


Something I think is important that I should relate. I am "safe" for my children. They know they will never lose my love and I will always be there for them. I am not saying I will save them from a lesson they need to learn but they know I won't turn my back on them, no matter how bad.

Kids need an emotional rock in their lives and it's best when they have more than 2 (like both parents AND a sibling, or a favorite uncle, etc) who will truly be there... but at least yours have you.

My XW isn't the same, unfortunately. There have been many times that she will cease keeping in touch with friends and even her children, if she feels slighted or disappointed. Please do not get me wrong. She is a good mother but has a flaw. We all have flaws including me, believe it or not.

Her flaw is giving up on people too easy. She has many good character traits. I just wish she didn't give up on others.

The point I am trying to make is that my kids aren't worried about anything they say or do to me. With their mother, they are much more careful. They dare not say anything negative about her. It wasn't until recently that my youngest actually said to me that mom gives up to easily and she left all of us. He kept that to himself for eight years. To my knowledge, he has never said that to his therapist or anyone else. He told me that he didn't want to say that to anyone.

I've heard similar things from my youngest and my h DID come back!...Geez be careful what you wish for...(kidding ---sort of)


Back to your other questions, would I allow reconciliation?

First, any of this isn't up to me. It would take a literal miracle for a restoration. I have almost stopped praying for a marriage restoration and instead have asked God if He will bring my XW and my children to rely on Him and Him alone. I have even said to Him that I would prefer that over ever having my family whole again. I do not normally share this but it is how I feel.


I relate. I eventually just prayed that His will be done AND that He let me know what the heck his will for us was! But you know, I can't guarantee I did what He wanted rather than simply convincing myself that it was....know what I Mean?

I rationalize things so well, there are times I'm not sure if I'm doing it, OR if it's really my reasoned and thought out opinion.


I do not believe restoration is possible without God in our lives being number one. Some would probably disagree but to me that is why it failed in the first place. If I treated her as God told me to, things may have been different. She may have still left or she may have stayed and worked through these issues but I did not make her feel safe.

I think to answer "how would my marriage be different" relies on "how have I changed."

While I am a work in progress, I sincerely hope that I would treat her as God would want me to, ie to be willing to "sacrifice" myself as Jesus did for the church.

In the past, I got my feelings hurt too easily. I had to be right. I still battle this but I think before I respond now. While many people would argue against this, her feelings would have to be more important than my own. In my opinion, she should never have to worry about me going off when frustrated with work or other situations.

But when it comes down to it, it is up to God. Trusting Him is what I need to do each day.

The question remains, do I love her. Yes. I love her no matter how much I have hurt. I look at my children and have been hurt repeatedly. I still love them. I am called to love my wife only second to God (and of course Jesus). Unconditionally. I think that is where my love comes from because I can't explain it any other way.

Thank you 25.


You're very welcome. And your post is so Well said....but a bit vague. I want you to consider answering that question again, not for me per se, but for you.

Flesh out a few specifics so you know what it might look like to love her as God instructed. IT's not going to be easy for sure, or more men would be doing it.

But I think you'd benefit (and wouldn't we all) benefit by thinking about what God would want us to treat our spouses like....it does require belief in God of course. My h came back from his deployment to the Middle East much LESS a believer. He sort of threw out the baby with the bath water, as he was very turned off by the religious zealotry he saw over there. IF we were dating this would be a deal breaker but we are married. So there's that.

Anyway, I also heard someone suggest that when you are in an emotional discussion with your spouse, REMIND yourself of how you saw your h/w on your wedding day.

Then ask yourself how you'd have handled the "Y" issue, on that day.

That sounded like a good idea. So, can you give a few examples? I do sense the need to be right in there, but hopefully you have gained enough self awareness and learned some new ways of avoiding that trap, to have it licked soon.

Also I cannot now recall what your w's biggest complaints were about the M, but did you find any of them valid enough to work on them?

IF so what did your wife say about those changes if anything? I'm simply curious.

Good luck with those kids of yours. I'm very glad they have you.

More later...

Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 09/21/14 10:15 AM.

M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Posts: 3,313
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Sorry, it looks like several posts were dropped during the forum upgrade over the weekend.


Me:56, W:51
D:26,S:24,S:22
Married:18
Bomb 9/27/06
Separated 11/27/06
Divorced 10/6/08
Leaving it up to God
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25, I have a tendency to over complicate things so overall the changes in myself are evolving but overall to think long and hard before I respond. I am human though so I am far from perfect but my goal is to love a person without expecting anything in return. With three children that are transitioning from teens to adults, I get a lot of practice. How do I say that I am not worried though. Most of the work isn't really mine. I am just trying to listen to Him and go day by day.

Why did she leave? I don't really know. I have had eight years to think about it but I am not certain why she left. I am not saying there weren't problems but what was it or the combination of things that was enough of a reason to walk out the door. I know she loves our kids and honestly I believe that she still loves me although I don't know how she loves me. It would take too long to say how I think there is a love for me from her but in brief, let me say that it may have been too hard to live with me considering challenges she has faced growing up.

Let me put it this way. No one would doubt her love for our children but she decided to leave them behind as well. They didn't do anything that would justify that. I admit to my issues that hurt our marriage but was it the reason for her leaving? Possibly, but I would stay in even a loveless marriage for my children (no abuse, and good environment for the children just the same). People were surprised because even though my XW does not like to show affection publicly, it was obvious she loved me.

I apologize for not going into detail about the ills she faced growing up but it is her personal business but let me say, it wasn't good. In our marriage, there was no physical abuse although there were harsh words time to time. I did not call her names but if things were bad, I was loud.

She wrote a story in one of her classes (Masters in Counseling -- yep!!) which she shared with me before she left. It was sad. She imagined herself, living alone in a small house, remote, while I was in a new marriage and very happy. It was not a story that sounded like wishful thinking but extremely sad.

When we were dating, we had broken up for about a year (her decision, not mine). We ended back together and, of course, getting married. Many times, she said that she knew we would end up together, even if we had gotten married to other people. She felt that we would eventually be together.

The reason I bring that up is that was something she shared with me up until she told me she was thinking of leaving. I cannot state whether she was justified in leaving and sharing this isn't my way of saying that I was perfect or treated her as I should have. I don't believe I treated her as God instructed and I own that.

The sad thing is that she didn't say what bothered her (of course, it doesn't require a braniac to figure out what bothered her) until she decided to leave. The marriage therapist (we went to for 1 1/2 months) told me separately that she had already decided she was leaving when she told me that she was not happy. Any problems she had with me were not really shared. Again, I am not an idiot so I knew that I needed to be more gentle simply because I knew she should be treated more lovingly.

She was my best friend. I really miss that.

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