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stumps, that's one of the best life skill I've learned in this process, asking open-ended questions without an agenda. I use it on an almost daily basis.

The minute I feel my defenses rising about something, I ask myself "what's going on here," and then I know I need more information about whatever has triggered my response.

The question can be as simple as "Tell me more about that" and then just listen. Only interject if you need clarification. The difficult part for me is, I want a answer/decision/resolution NOW and you often won't get that.

Become comfortable with first, validating what you're hearing and then taking time, let's think about this more, or I need some time to think, or can we talk more about this tomorrow?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Mar 2014
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I decided to add "Piecing" to my signature info because W used the phrase last night when she was relating to me a discussion she had with her mom about our sitch. MIL was asking about what was going on with us, and W told her we were slowly piecing things together.

Kind of funny, but W also used the phrase "180", saying she wasn't sure if she could do a 180...meaning she wasn't sure if she could go from feeling like she wanted a divorce to feeling like she wanted to stay married, but she hoped that she could and felt like that was the direction she was moving in. In my mind, I liken it to turning a cruise ship. It's not going to happen on a dime.

Slowly but surely, things do seem to be moving in the right direction. I have been sticking with my work--the 180s and GAL. W has mentioned several times that although her guard is still up, she is warming to the idea of a future together. She is definitely interested in renewing a year-long lease on our house, and has been tentatively discussing other future plans--e.g., potentially buying the house we are currently in or maybe moving elsewhere together as a family.

Just have to keep the hard-earned changes going...


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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You're definitely not in Piecing yet.

Piecing is only when your W definitely says "okay, let's get this marriage fixed" and ACTIVELY does things to do that such as making appointments to the MC, reading books, etc.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Originally Posted By: stumps
I decided to add "Piecing" to my signature info because W used the phrase last night when she was relating to me a discussion she had with her mom about our sitch. MIL was asking about what was going on with us, and W told her we were slowly piecing things together.

Kind of funny, but W also used the phrase "180", saying she wasn't sure if she could do a 180...meaning she wasn't sure if she could go from feeling like she wanted a divorce to feeling like she wanted to stay married, but she hoped that she could and felt like that was the direction she was moving in. In my mind, I liken it to turning a cruise ship. It's not going to happen on a dime.

Slowly but surely, things do seem to be moving in the right direction. I have been sticking with my work--the 180s and GAL. W has mentioned several times that although her guard is still up, she is warming to the idea of a future together. She is definitely interested in renewing a year-long lease on our house, and has been tentatively discussing other future plans--e.g., potentially buying the house we are currently in or maybe moving elsewhere together as a family.

Just have to keep the hard-earned changes going...


This all sounds great.

Go slow, think, be open, trust, let go of the past...


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
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Well, despite fulfilling all of MrBond's requirements for piecing, it seems I was too confident about the state of my marriage. I have been sticking to DBing and GAL, but over the last couple of months W has been flip-flopping back and forth over where she stands and what her feelings are. She went from telling me she was confident we were on the path to a new and better marriage and wanting to see a marriage counselor to help ensure we would achieve that goal, to telling me that she no longer thought her resentful feelings about the past would change and she was no longer willing to put forth the effort to see if they would.

It's kind of weird though because the whole time she has still been wanting me to rub and massage her after work, and we have still been hanging out and doing stuff together. It's just very strange to me.

At any rate, she just told me about an hour ago that she's going to move into her parents house next Monday. I guess the plan for the time being is for the kids to stay in our house with me.

Not really sure on how to proceed as far as demeanor toward W. I mean, I'm being pleasant enough with her... But I'm guessing now just keep all interaction short and sweet? This all just so bizarre to me. She came home from her vacation with the kids all full of hope and promise about the future, and now she has moved in the complete opposite direction...but is still kind of acting like she didn't just drop another bomb with me. I'm in the bedroom and she just came in from the living room and asked if I would watch a movie with her and rub her shoulders...WTF???

Last edited by stumps; 09/14/14 10:11 PM.

H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
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I guess what I'm going to have to figure out is, do I continue doing all the stuff
that W and I do together (and all of the stuff that I do *for* her) now that she says she's leaving? She seems to have this vision that despite the bomb she just dropped, we will still just kind of carry on as normal...hanging out as friends. Frankly, I'm not sure if doing that is going to help or hurt my cause. It would almost be easier to know how to proceed if she seemed sick of me and didn't want me around. But as it is she still kind of acts like I'm her best friend.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
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stumps Offline OP
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Posts: 209
Journaling...

Watched a little tv this evening, and when the show was over I got up and went to the bathroom to brush my teeth and take out my contacts. W called out to me from the living room, asking if I was getting ready for bed. When I said yes, she replied "weren't you even going to let me know?"

This. This is the puzzle. This is the thing I find interesting. And it is a dynamic that I have seen present itself in various ways in our relationship. My W can tell me that she is not in love with me and that she is moving out...and yet still feel slightly wounded that I would get up prepare for bed--perhaps even go off to the bedroom and go to sleep--without letting her know.

The mind of another person is a vast unfathomable place, the depths of which are best left unplumbed.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
S
stumps Offline OP
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And then... As I lay in bed, eyes half shut, doing a bit of pre-sleep mind clearing and some meditations on the good things in my life despite this current adversity, W at my side says "do you think you could rub me? I'm having bad anxiety and can't fall asleep." And I say "sure", but what I think to myself is "hey, let *me* tell *you* about anxiety, and what might cause it... like... having your spouse change her mind literally from one day to the next about how she feels about your marriage, and her commitment, and whether or not she loves you."

But I of course don't say this, because I am DBing. And I am outwardly cool, calm, and collected to the greatest extent possible no matter what I am feeling inside.

But I can't imagine that I would ever tell my spouse that I was done, that I wanted out, that I was indeed moving out, and then turn to her and ask her to comfort me.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
S
stumps Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
Journaling...

W asked me not to come with her and the kids to family dinner at her parents tonight (our Monday night "ritual") so that she could talk to her parents about moving in and arrange a day for doing so. When the kids asked me if I would be coming with them, I just told them I had some extra stuff to do for work and wouldn't be able to.

Part of me feels like the carpet has been pulled out from under me. Two months ago W was so positive we were on our way to a better marriage. Now she is just as positive that all is hopeless. And although she had identified some things that would help her deal with her resentment and negative feelings, and that would help us build that better relationship, she now says she doesn't want to do them... that she is tired, and that she has done enough, and she doesn't think her feelings will ever change. The extent of her vacillation was something I was not prepared for...although I guess I certainly should have been.


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
S
stumps Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 209
Texted W while she was at her parents last night to let her know I was going out for a bit and probably wouldn't be home when she and the kids got back. When I did get home the kids were already in bed and W was on the couch surfing the web watching the Os/Toronto game. I know she doesn't like getting into "stuff" when it's later in the evening, so I was only half-surprised that she didn't bring up any discussion with her parents about when specifically she was planning on moving in with them. In keeping with DBing, I certainly wasn't going to bring it up...although I have to confess I definitely did want to ask if she had talked to them about it and what had been decided. Instead we just hung out watching the game for a bit and then went to bed.

Thought it was interesting that as I was lying in bed and as she was getting prepared to join me, she started talking about doing 30 days of "getting healthy"... starting to eat right, exercising/doing yoga, and--most importantly--reducing (if not quitting altogether) the amount she has been drinking and going out/partying. This last thing has been a huge issue...I'm realizing there is a substance abuse issue at play in our sitch. I'm not sure the exact nature of it...if she could be called an addict or not...but she definitely uses alcohol as a coping mechanism, and it's been 2, 3, 4 nights a week sometimes of drinking and going out to bars...particularly notable because she is on two meds, neither of which should she be drinking much while taking. All of these things, the getting healthy/exercise/reducing partying-drinking, were things that she said she was going to do back when she first dropped the bomb on me in March. Back then, she had said that she owed it to herself, and the kids, and me and the marriage to do them before making any final decisions. But... they just never happened.

So, it was good to hear her say last night that she was once again planning on doing them...whether or not any of them actually happens remains to be seen. Of course this time she didn't say them in the context of doing them before deciding for sure to move out. I wanted to ask, but didn't. I think it's best to assume that her goal is to do (I hope) all of these healthy things not INSTEAD of moving out, but in addition to moving out. Her parents are both pretty big drinkers though, so I don't how much moving in with them is going to be conducive to a reduction in drinking, but... I wish her the best.

Yet again, just as I was drifting off to sleep last night, W asked me if I would pet her head to help her fall asleep...and this morning she asked me to massage her back before I started getting ready for work. Hope that's something she misses when she moves out...


H: 43
W: 37
M: 11 years
T: 12 years
S: 11
D: 8
ILYBINILWY, "I want to move out" and "I want a divorce": 3/23/14
MC started: 9/22/14
Affair and past infidelity discovered: 9/26/14
Piecing: 10/20/14
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