Haven't spoken with W in a few days- just feeling bitter about everything right now. Tonight is S12's bday dinner, so we'll see each other then, but she just sent the following email. Any advice on a response??
'Are you still going to the wedding this weekend? I can't get the time off work. Already getting crap for taking off Thanksgiving and am being told it will be unpaid. I also have concerns about us being alone together for 4 days. You haven't spoken to me since Thursday. I understand. I haven't done what you asked of me. I've done a lot of asking myself why. And why I got so angry with you when you pushed..not sure.not sure I am able to give up control of my life that I have built over the past year.'
My immediate reaction is to just say I'll cancel MC if she's not willing to give up the life she's built this past year....
I will admit that I am crap at setting boundaries, but canceling MC due to her hesitation sounds an awful lot like a threat to me.
I see her trying to work through conflicting emotions in her email. If you push, won't she feel justified in NOT giving up the life she's worked to build over the past year?
The no contact letter needs to happen, but I think it should be presented to her more like, "I am ready to work on our marriage, but I cannot do that unless the door to the OM is completely closed." Firm but loving, you know?
My 2 cents -- I've read your thread but I'm not in an A situation so I may not have a clue what I'm talking about . . .
Danggggg, Tar. W's message just spiked my blood pressure a little.
I will be looking forward to Starsky's advice on this.
Meanwhile, I think Elsa has a great point about pulling MC off the table right now. I think it would be too reactive of you. I also like the response Drew pitched; that would be advocating a STFU and KISS stance, pretty much ignoring all the other garbage she threw out there.
She is REALLY stringing you along, isn't she? What arrogance!
I also really found JCred's response from the other day insightful (somehow I missed it then), and it raises a great question:
Quote:
I believe you made the mistake of agreeing to MC while at the same time "insisting" on a NC letter and a host of other requirements.
On the one hand you are trying to come across as "strong" by insisting on NC and you won't share, while on the other hand, agreeing to MC.
Those two things would need to go hand in hand to really show her that you mean business. It would have been far better to tell her no counseling, no nothing UNTIL you have written the NC letter and such....
Then AFTER that is complete, you go to counseling.... Agreeing to and attending counseling is the same thing as saying you WILL share her.
This is what this whole thing is sounding like to me. Imagine how it sounds to her. No wonder you are confused.
" WS, I insist on NC or it's over between us, however, let's go to counseling to see if we can save this marriage while I wait to see if I can force you to write the NC letter and a host of other demands so that I can feel secure. Please don't call this controlling because I know I can't force you to do anything. Do you want to go to that wedding I mentioned a month or so back? What about a date on Saturday, do you want to go to dinner?
Oh, and one other thing, did you write that NC letter today that you promised? What about all of your passwords? Did you throw away all letters from OM and gifts yet? Please don't take this as pressure or me being controlling. If you don't write that NC letter today, then how about tomorrow, or should I wait until the next MC session?"
How are you telling W that you won't live in an open M or share her ... but also going to MC to work on the M before she has committed to transparency and giving OM the boot off her social-media accounts? At this point, while W is being such a brat, I don't know that MC is going to do you any good; in fact, it could HURT matters.
Still, I wouldn't yank it off the table now because it'd be just too dang reactive and, yes, would provide her with justification.
I'd still go with what was discussed earlier. Deliver your non-negotiables in front of MC. Stick to them. You could even tell W in front of MC that you're not willing to make further appointments until W agrees to transparency and NC. (But as for responding to her most recent message, maybe punt her a response like Drew pitched, ignoring her spew altogether.)
Then again, this is a bit of a tricky situation for me to figure out - boundaries, strength, etc. and MC when W hasn't committed - so I'm definitely anxious to see the responses from others.
Starsky? Where art thou?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I can see both sides of it. Yes, I made the mistake of not having W send the no contact letter prior to counseling. We both agreed it needed sent and she stated she had no problem with it, so I 'assumed' she was starting to write it. My fault. I really think she's not as concerned with no contact with OM as she is with how does she handle that new circle of friends she's made going forward. She's wondering- do I have to give them up too? She knows I don't like them and why would I? They basically encouraged her A.
I re-read her last line of being 'not sure I'm able to give up that life' and can't help wonder if that's a cry for help in giving it up or her way of saying she's not 'willing' to give it up. And what a sweet life that is- sharing a 2 bedroom condo away from her kids/animals.
Part of me agrees with the above advice to ignore her spew and just address it in MC, but I'm also just fed up with her continued delay in all of this. 3 weeks ago I gave her the choice of working with me or we're done- and I meant it. Yet here we are still discussing her lack of cooperation....
So I have 2 responses drafted- 1 following the above advice and 1 basically saying MC is a waste of time if she's not willing to give up that life, we'll start discussing D after I get back from the wedding (and we're not going to dinner tonight as a family).
... and 1 basically saying MC is a waste of time if she's not willing to give up that life, we'll start discussing D after I get back from the wedding (and we're not going to dinner tonight as a family).
Lots of pressure there. She's made her bed, I'd just let her sleep in it for awhile.
Be strong, confident, happy, and moving on with your life. And look DAMN good at the wedding!!
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
I can somewhat relate to your sitch, when my W and I went to MC back in may I was under the impression OM was out of the picture ... turns out W only wanted MC so we could communicate better, but had no intentions of R .... I then realized why I was having difficulty connecting and making any progress with her. So in MC I called her on it .... our MC was very good and basically fired a ton of truth darts at W. She blew up and walked out ... as I apologized to my MC she told me, W has to fix her, and out M would never work until she did that , and committed to it .... as she told W ... she has never seen a M work with 3 people.
Reading that line where you W is not sure she is ready .... well as ugly as it is... its her choice, she can live that life (Seems a rather empty and shallow one at best) ... or she can try to work on your M ... you have told her what needs to happen, she has been dragging her feet. I think you need to stay strong, continue LRT ... they have brought you this far, something in your W seems to want the M, but do not allow her the cake eat opportunity. I, like you set a boundary a couple weeks ago and she talked me into a "trial" that is quickly about to expire, I have done all I can, I have changed, and at some point I am enough for her or I'm just not. I am willing, but I refuse to be the only one running into the burning house to save it for someone who cant get away fast enough ..... lets face it, we all are here in a spot we don't want to be in, and its going to take alot of work from both to get to where we need to be.... you can not do it alone.
I also have concerns about us being alone together for 4 days. You haven't spoken to me since Thursday. I understand. I haven't done what you asked of me. I've done a lot of asking myself why. And why I got so angry with you when you pushed..not sure.not sure I am able to give up control of my life that I have built over the past year.'....
My response would be "Then I guess I have my answer. Because at this late date, no decision IS a decision as far as I'm concerned."
And then I would show up for the MC session, ask her in front of the MC if she is willing to send the no-contact letter and be fully transparent with you and come back and work -- REALLY work -- on the marriage . . . and if she wasn't . . . I'd be polite, thank the MC for their time, and I'd say "Then I guess I have my answer. Thanks -- I'll leave the rest of our time for you two." And I'd leave.
The no contact letter needs to happen, but I think it should be presented to her more like, "I am ready to work on our marriage, but I cannot do that unless the door to the OM is completely closed." Firm but loving, you know?
Tarheel has done that. 3x, by my count. His wife has given him her (non-) answer. For Tar to continue to restate his boundary would only serve to WEAKEN it.
I wouldn't much care how anyone would perceive me canceling MC. If she's unwilling to kick the 3rd person out of her marriage that she's unilaterally invited into it, and take the steps necessary to work on the marriage with Tarheel, then the MC sessions are a charade and a waste of time at best, and are going to be used as a platform for her to exit the marriage at worst. Either way, I wouldn't be much interested.
I'm fed up with the games. I responded that I had my answer and that it didn't make sense to continue MC with a 3rd person still involved. She responded 'what time for dinner? or am I just taking the kids?'
Really?! She then responded again saying not to make her unwillingness to change all about OM.
I sent her one last email saying she can either send me the letter and unfriend him tonight or I'm cancelling MC. Maybe I should have waited to address at MC, but she's been dragging her feet too long...
