If its any consolation. My daughter just turned 16. She is in the middle sometimes because she chooses to be. I can see that it hurts her at times. She still loves her mom, but.....its really not her mom anymore, its an imposter.
I have to let her go to choose what relationship she has with her Mom, but.......... My daughter has said you are always there for me, without you this would have a lot tougher. The actions that I chose made all the difference to her. It give her the chance to try to have a decent relationship with her Mom always knowing she has a strong independent parent to catch her if she needs it.
It is sad at times to watch a young person struggle when they know something is wrong. Remember growing up at that age. a lot of emotions flowing.
Listen, validate her, walk away when shes in a mood. DB her. it works.
Hi Matt, I read your thread yesterday but could not post at the time. Felt happy for you .. so today I returned with that in mind only to see that your tone has changed. Sorry about the turn of events. What I get from this is to not have expectations. She's not changing (at the moment anyway).
>>also found an old journal that I kept when my W first became depressed.<< keep that safe, you never know what it might mean (?)in future, but don't read too much - its hurtful. Now is not the best time!
>>The amount of work that this house (which is paid for) needs now, let alone over the next 4 years, will more than offset any amount she would get if it was sold today, as is (if it even could be!). It needs a new roof, new A/C, new floors in most of the house. The septic will need work. The foundation is in need of repair.<< am in very similar sitch, i can empathize. an mlcer, money concerns & 'reno works' to be done. (got plumbing probs just today and did repairs earlier this year, but wait there HAD 2 b MORE!)
>>If she is willing to lie<< Matt they lie. you know that. have NO expectations. my h is being nice ...the 1st thing that I thought of today was, is he 'being nice'? Or 'ACTING nice?'. He is GOOD & I know the lying is going on big time. I just find it hard to believe any of this nice behaviour is real - makes me sad but there is very little trust (if any). I wouldn't recognize a baby step right now even if it looked me in the eye ... a straight case of h crying "wolf" too many times. Your W has done the same - do not let her actions keep 'surprising' you.
re your w. I think in cases where there was so much (!!) dyfuntion within a family, the issues are so colossal that time is really needed. Your w needs LOTS of it , so much undoing of what was done, has to take place.
We/LBS lived/w ... & they/MLCer were 'functioning,' nothing was 'out of the ordinary' as such. However, we/LBS were on 'timers', on borrowed time before their poor, abused minds & hurt feelings would catch up with them, overwhelm them and strike out at us in the process. This is 'real inner violence & turbulence.' They can't remember so much because so much is vile & messy, not 'clear cut,' organized ... 'logical' ... should we have any expectations given the enormity of the mess?
>>I'm starting to think she is losing her grip on reality..again!<< Again? this is actually the other way around Matt. She experiences a 'warped' reality more often than not I suspect ... & drops into 'reality' only now & again ... I thinks she appears to be in reality until 'tested' and not in a 'state of rest' (nothing to upset her world, her narcissism). She isn't starting to lose her grip - she lost it long ago.
>>don't think she ever got over her depression<< you're right Matt - I'm no pro or db vet here, but this is probably true (& don't forget it! ) It's probably worse sometime, 'better' at other times ... but depressed/depression? >>> ongoing!!!
>>She has gone back on every thing we have<< written above!! don't count on morals to be in play here. They don't seem to have any during this time. I have read that they live 'emotionally,' which would explain behaviour. If one is logical or can rationalize a sitch, that's different - you write as if she is 'logical'. That's NOT the case here. I don't know if mlcer realizes if they are 'going back on everything' - I don't even know if they really 'know' what the heck they're going back on or or off or what ? They seem to be reactive when pushed (not getting THEIR WAY), so self centered (prob. self exteem, DESPERATION re life gone wrong for them, so it's ME, ME, & ME!!!) & maybe that's what creates the blinders. Why wouldn't she 'go back'/her word, if it doesn't suit her another time? She is not seeing anything, she's just feeling everything she WANTS for herself. And you're in the crossfire (!) .. 'oops!'(!!) at which time, she gathers her skirts walks over your body (since they have the sensitivity of a slab of concrete for the LBS) and moves on.
you cannot expect: (re W, above) NOT to go back on NOT over depression NOT losing grip NOT lying (this one's my fav ) It's so unreal, wreckless ..
No expectations, ok? This is going to happen over & over & over again - for one reason. SHE IS NOT BETTER.
---------- other post / #2487537 >>I have spent much more of my income on our D14 as a % of what I make than she has<< It doesn't matter from what I have observed. It's 'tactical' type of dishonesty - spend/use yours, preserve theirs ... (remember, 'morals')
wife's mental state: prepare for this one, get advice. This is sensitive, the mother of Ds. Just be informed re how to handle. don't know how to advise here
The thing is, it would be the truth. W is all lies. This would hurt but that's MLC for you - all pain! The truth will be freeing in long run if handled tacticfully, IF you decide to go this route.
take care, pb
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
Matt, sorry about delayed post above. It was on screen tab for awhile, I edited not long ago & submitted. Since time does not stand still (oh no! ), quite a few posts accumulated!
All my greatest fears are coming true, one by one. My W isn't stepping up to be a "better" Now you're talking!! As long as her trigger is around, so is your 'MLCer W'!
I need to take away her power. To do that I need to think in ways that I'm not used to thinking. Like how to get over on my W. How to lie to her face while I'm doing the opposite behind her back, like she is doing to me. It's not in my nature to act this way. I'm a very up front do what I say kind of person.
Don't know what to say here. I never thought of this type of '180' or reverse psych for MLCer ... am not a vet' as u know ...
I know that W is wearing on you. You have been standing for so long are are fatigued. You've received good advice - focus on daughters, self, take time outs for yourself.
Going to post NOW before this ends up in a place long after the intended post!
pb
Last edited by pbetra; 09/12/1408:46 PM.
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
Matt, I am responding to a message from you on my post. How did you deal with those times your wife was out till all hours, knowing she was hiding something? If you were able to ignore it so she wouldn't get to you, can you please tell me how?
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Hi mighty! Well, I guess you can say that I'm OK. Still feeling anger but not as intense. I had my D14 with me until Sunday and I always feel better when she is here is with me. Today on my way home from work I got a call from D14. She had locked herself out of her mom's house and asked if I could come and get her. I was going to be passing by so, of course, I wasn't about to let her stay locked out of the house. So, I asked her if she had called her mother to let her know and what she had said. So, D14 says that her mother told her to call ME! Umm....ok, as far as she knew I was already past her home as I worked a little late today. I get to my D14 and I ask her what she wants to do. She said that her mom told her to just take her to her work and she can wait there until my W was done. BUT my D begged me to let her just get the key and take her back because "I don't want to wait for mom to get done. I'll have to wait there until 8:00!". So, I ask her if her mother leaves her alone until that late every night. Her answer was "Yes, but I don't mind. In fact I like it. I get the house to myself.".
So, just like I thought, my W is acting the same as she has for the last few years. She is putting her work ahead of her D14! Look, I know that the worst time for a teenager, the time when they get into trouble is the period from after school is out until a parent gets home. With no supervision teens are going to get into trouble. When her new friends at her new school find out that they can go to my W's house after school and no adults are going to be there, they will start pressuring my D14 to come over there. All it takes is one bad kid with the wrong things on their mind and trouble follows! I knew this was going to happen!
What I don't get is why my W even cares to have D14 living with her if she is going to do this! My W doesn't HAVE to work late every day. It's her choice to do that. It's her choice to be the one that they always ask to work extra because she will never say no! My W is so afraid of being seen as not part of the team, she gets stepped on at her work all the time! This is what she did when she and I lived together and when I asked her to please try and say no she told me she wanted to work late because "It's so unhappy here at home". Of course, she wanted to stay at work because being with me was making her unhappy! Now I'm not there and she is still doing the same thing! She wants so badly to have split custody and when she gets it, this is what she does?
So, I took D14 to W's work. She picked up the key, I took her to get ice cream and took her back to mothers house. So, my W didn't have to be put out once again. It took an extra 2 hours out of my day and about 20 miles but W didn't have to do a thing! So, did my W text me a thank you? Did she at least acknowledge my effort? Nope. Nothing. Zip, nada, not a word. Once again, I ride to the rescue so W doesn't have to miss a second of work and she doesn't even have the decency to say "thanks" or even acknowledge the effort. Same thing she did the last couple years when I would get a call at the last min. asking me to pick up both our kids from school (they went on opposite sides of town) and that took me an extra 1.5 hours and I wasn't able to do anything like meet with friends or go to the gym! Then on B-day my W tells me one of the things she wanted me to do was go out and do things on my own without her. How was I supposed to do that when I had to always be the one who took care of things at home?
Even now that my W and I don't live together, even though she has taken my D14 away from me and the only home she has ever known, my W is still using me to get out of having to be a decent, caring mother. Worse is that even if I brought this up in court, my lawyer says that in my state I will not get custody unless my w is smoking crack WITH my D14. It just is how it is where I live. He says I'm "lucky" to get 50/50 being a father since here mothers are always awarded custody. If my D14 would tell the court she wants to live with me that would change things but just the way she defended her mother saying she "liked" that she worked late, I know that won't happen. Of course she 'likes" it when she doesn't need her mom (like when she gets locked out of the house, say) but because she knows I will always be there for her she doesn't have to hurt her mom's feelings AND she knows I will still be there for her like I always have.
For my W to be leaving my D14 home alone every night is bad enough. telling her to call me is bad enough. But for me to ride to her rescue and her to not even have the decency to text a "Thanks for doing this so I didn't have to leave work early" just is so RUDE! God, I really hate how selfish these WAS's become. If I was a "friend who did the same thing, my W would be so thanking them and saying how much she appreciated the effort, etc. For the person whose life she has turned upside down? Well, it seems I'm not even worthy of a simple text message "thank you"!
The point is you got to spend more time with your daughter. You got to show her what someone who steps ups is like as a parent. All the other stuff about your wife is a moot point.
I get it that your wife is not who you want her to be, or make the choices you want her to make......but think about this, you would definitely not want her making choices for you.
You keep looking for her to acknowledge what you do and then beat your head against a brick wall each time she doesn't.
Why do you keep hurting yourself?
Why do you keep looking?
Wouldn't it be better to stop and be pleasantly surprised if she does?
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
Good vent, Matt. I know, so frustrating. Try not to get so hung up on what w is thinking and doing. She's screwed up. Nothing we can do about that. Her reasons for insisting d stays with her and she works till 8? Who knows.
Here is the thing: You are there for your d when she needs you. That is major. She will always remember that. Right now, she is 14 and the only thing she thinks is that you should be. Remember, you are giving her security. As long as you continue being there for her, you are making a statement without saying a word.
Trust me, Matt. You are giving her a feeling inside that she does not even realize. If you told her to call her mother and that it's not your time, yadda, yadda, she would have a totally different feeling. D14 knows she can count on you. That's a good thing. She will always know that; she will always remember that.
Your w- well, she is missing out. Someday she will look back and realize that she should have said "NO" to work. D14 is more important and she WONT be 14 forever. That time does not come back. Again, nothing you can do about her... you just be there. You get it. You know it's important.
I'm just going to share this: All spring, xh didn't really have much time for the kids. He made "time" when he had it. Since October (almost a year), I have asked him to do 2 things. I asked him once to pick up s17 from work at 6PM. He waited until 6PM to respond and texted something like, "This is your day, you can do it." What a joke. Every day was "my day" and I did tell him later that I am always a parent, not on certain days. (BTW, on "his" days, I still did EVERYTHING- I don't think he has had dinner with the kids since we went on vacation in February).
The second thing, well actually I DIDN'T ask him (so I only asked for 1 thing). XH said he was going to take the kids for ice cream. D was just about to get out of practice, so when he came to p/u s, I just said he could just get her now.
S was back about 10 min later and was putting ice cream in the freezer for d. I was like, "What the heck? Isn't xh p/u d?" S was like, I don't think so, he told me to give this to her. I tried calling xh bc I hadn't planned on p/u d and was in the middle of something. He did not answer. I had to text another dad and ask him to bring d home.
I saw xh the next day and I asked why he didn't p/u d or answer my call. He said he had to go tanning and couldn't pick d up and didn't answer my call bc he was in the tanning bed.
At this point, I'm like, OK, I'm being punked, right?!
Nope, I know now, it was a couple days later he went on a cruise with his little sweetheart and her kid.
Sorry Matt, didn't mean to ramble, but I do have a point to this. Now, my kids don't even want to bother with xh. They know he is unreliable. I think xh now regrets some of this. He can't take it back and he has a lot of ground to cover to reestablish a r with them.
I know it is different since your d14 lives with w, but my point is that d14 still has feelings inside from this, whether she is acknowledging them now or not. You are giving her the sense of security and she knows she can count on you. I don't think you would want it any other way (outside of this sitch, of course). That will always be there in her because you will be there for her. Forget w and her shenanigans, there is nothing you can do about that. She will regret it one day, and d will realize you were a rock for her. You are the calm in the storm. Don't get swept into the storm, Matt. D14 needs you.
Matt, LT just gave me a thought. We are supposed to "expect nothing" but what if you changed that a little bit? What if you expected the worst from w. What if you expected crazy? Then if it's not, it is a pleasant surprise (credit to LT, here!!!)
.. so today I returned with that in mind only to see that your tone has changed. Sorry about the turn of events. What I get from this is to not have expectations. She's not changing (at the moment anyway). 
They can't remember so much because so much is vile & messy, not 'clear cut,' organized ... 'logical' ... should we have any expectations given the enormity of the mess? 
) It's probably worse sometime, 'better' at other times ... but depressed/depression? >>> ongoing!!!
) It's so unreal, wreckless ..