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#2488545 09/15/14 04:54 AM
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Time for a new thread, because my old thread is long and absolutely everything has changed this week.

My previous thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2486951&page=1


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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OK, things are different now. I'm not sure they're better now, but I have more hope than I've had in a very long time... although the hope comes with some ambivalence on my end. It appears that Mr. Gritty wants to try to reconcile.

Over last week Mr. Gritty's friendly texts increased, and then I started getting phone calls, too. Then Mr. Gritty sent me an apology via text.

He told me he was very sorry for all he'd put me through in the last twelve months, and that he took full responsibility for it, that he owned it. He swears he has not been with anyone else for several months. I responded with a thank you. I mean, it's a texted apology but it's more than I've gotten before.

The next day was my appointment with my DB coach, who was surprised and glad at this turn of events. The plan: to listen to what Mr. Gritty has to say while affirming and validating, not push R, D or $ talks, and hold off on my emotional needs right now in order to meet his and better gauge where he is right now.

I'm taking this one day at a time. I do not intend to live like this forever. We've got a boatload of issues to work through at some point. He broke the trust in our relationship, he needs to help fix it. It's just that now is not the time. Hence, my ambivalence. He is not moving home until I feel like it is the right time. (He hasn't asked yet, either.)

We've seen each other a couple of times this week. As he is unwilling to visit me in our home, I drive to see him, which feels like I'm having to do the courting, or something. I haven't said anything like this but on one of our dates he said he felt bad about me always driving to see him and he took me to dinner at a local place near the house.

Yesterday he wanted to be intimate and I broke the no R talk rule. I asked him: "I need to know: what exactly has changed since last week when you said I 'manipulated' you into doing conflict resolution? What has changed since you initiated D proceedings and said you were 'through' and 'done' with our marriage?"

He said he was confused and trying to find his way, but he knows now where he wants to be. I asked him how he knew he wouldn't be confused anymore? Like, maybe, next week? How does he know he won't suddenly feel trapped and caged and controlled like he's suddenly felt at odd moments throughout the last year?

He said he just knows. I told him I was glad he was sure but I still have to protect myself and until I feel safe, I would be careful. He said he understood. And yet, during dinner, he was telling me about a work issue he had, and how he had to call the OW and get her to fix it for him. I didn't say anything but my face must've changed because he stopped and apologized and said he keeps forgetting that he had a relationship with her. I just changed the subject.

So other than that the only backsliding I did was after a walk. We're having a heat wave and were both were sweaty and uncomfortable after the walk so he told me I could shower at his place. When I was looking for deodorant I found a tube of mascara, a brand I never use. HER mascara.

I felt so angry in that moment. Why would he still have that in his bathroom? Was it, like, a trophy? Was he waiting to give it back to her? Telling her she could come and pick it up herself?

I wished I could call the DB coach and ask what to do. Frankly, I wished I could shove the mascara up OW's ass.

I decided the DB Coach would probably advise me not to mention it to him, because it would appear that I'd been snooping when I was not and what purpose would it serve except to put him on the spot?

So I put on a pretend face when I came out of the bathroom but he could tell. He kept asking me what was wrong and I finally told him. I apologized for looking for deodorant and told him I found the mascara and knew it was hers. He got defensive, said that it was left behind during a situation that was more innocent than I was imagining. AND... he wasn't going to talk about it.

I asked him how come he didn't throw it out if he was truly done with her. He said didn't know, that he just forgot about it.

I told him I hate it that she is still in our lives because he still has to work with her. He says he doesn't even think about her romantically or sexually because their relationship is "so over. Months and months ago, Nitty! I can't barely remember it anymore." He said he was not ever going to talk about her or any of the other women but that it would never happen again.

Maybe he can barely remember how much in love he was with the OW, but I remember very well him telling me how she was the most precious thing in his life and his only chance for happiness, and how he couldn't bear to break up with her. And if he doesn't remember why he left me, how will he know he'll not leave me again?

It was hard, but I made myself shut up.

We still have a D mediation appointment this week. In a very odd dinner conversation we were holding hands and he thanked me for "waiting" for him to get through this. And I had to ask: "Are we still getting divorced?"

He looked surprised and said we could cancel mediation "if we want to." I'm hoping we'll just do conflict resolution as a form of marriage counseling but I didn't say that. I'm not going to tell him to cancel it or not. He initiated it. It's up to him to stop it.

I don't know what to do or how to proceed so I'm making my way carefully, just focusing on one day at a time. Reconciliation is what I've wanted more than anything, but this is not how I imagined it to be. Like, I'm still taking care of his emotional state, holding my tongue when all I want to do is ask questions and discuss what happened. But I have my eye on the long-term prize and I must not get resentful.

I find myself concerned that I did the right thing. Today I was thinking about how all the GALing I've been doing has been a lot of fun, and I won't be GALing if I'm back with him, right? No! I will still GAL! But invite him along... and if he doesn't want to go?

And what if OW makes a play for him again? Is he going to be ready for that? And what was with all the hostility of the last months? Will I have to walk on eggshells, worried about it starting up again?

I won't think about that today. I'll think about it if it happens. One day at a time.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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A-freaking-mazing.

You have the right attitude. And yeah, while the books are pretty definitive on phases (GAL, LRT, piecing), the truth is that these things blend and bleed on each other.

You are also asking the right questions. The good news is, they don't all have to be answered right away. DB'g is weird - it's almost like you should tackle the easiest questions first. Read the affairs/infidelity chapter in DR - my guess is that erasing the OW completely from his life will be the last thing that happens.

We men (okay, most of us) are stupid about emotional things. He honestly might not have even thought about that mascara for 6 months. It could genuinely just be a thing sitting in the cabinet. I know that's hard to believe, but sometimes it's true. My W found some old postcards from a long-past girlfriend once...I had no idea they were even around (sitting in an old Army trunk.) She flipped out; I was like, hey, it's not like I had a kid with her (okay, I didn't say that. But I thought it.)


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Posts: 242
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Wow Nitty -- some good developments there. But, I just can't 'un-see' that image of you....oh never mind. (!) I agree with Shakspr, though - he probably didn't even realize it was there. Anyway, take it s-l-o-w...yes, one day at a time...you'll know what to do and when...


Me 53, XH 57
M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids
BD June '13
H moved out July '13
Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14
H filed for D Nov. '14
D March '15
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I'm very happy to hear this, Nitty!!! Protect yourself, but this is great news!


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 95
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Good luck Nitty!


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Posts: 1,174
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Nitty!

Down and dirty with Mr. Gritty!

Interesting developments for sure.

I love that "I can hardly remember that I had a relationship with her."

Wow. I got the: "Oh THAT. (About his adultery). THAT was just stupid...."

Oh yeah, sure it was. How quickly they (want to) forget!

I can't wait to hear what happens next in your nutshell.


---GGG


Me 54 Him 63
M 23 T 29
0 Kids
Funny Farm of Rescues
12/12 OW--
5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied
9/13 Proof OW: ENDED
2/14 Got D papers on my BD
I kicked him out for my sanity
9/14 He wants to "talk"?



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Not sure if this post will stick with the board maintenance, but I'm going to post anyway.

I'm still riding the roller coaster.

TEXTKRIEG

The evening I wrote my last post, I accidentally sent a text to Mr. Gritty after his "bedtime". I'd written it earlier, forgot to send it, found it and tried to erase it but accidentally hit send.

It woke him up and ... tada... Bring on the textkrieg. He blasted me for:

1) waking him up.

2) not responding to him quickly enough. "I wrote my last text 2.5 hours ago!" (I was in my adult ed class)

3) "going out and meeting others". He was really ticked off about that. A quote: "I need to go out and meet others. You are. What the hell is wrong with me? Screw this sh!t." The implication being that he is questioning reconciliation because I'm going out and he isn't and that is bad.

4) lying to him. He claimed I changed my story in my texts as to where I'd been. Told me how much he hates it when I keep on lying. Of course, I didn't lie in the texts, and I didn't lie during our marriage, but this is back to one of the reasons he gave me for cheating on me.

All he needed to do was re-read the texts, to see that my story did not change, but instead he just went off the handle.

I finally remembered the rules and stopped responding. I figured: well, that reconciliation didn't last long. And I was pretty sure I was right because he didn't text me for the next 48 hours. He didn't call, didn't do anything. We went from frequent and consistently friendly daily texts to nada.

Was I upset? No. Confused, yes. Agitated, yes. But not rolling around in despair. I'm getting better at detachment.

MEDIATION

When he showed up in mediation, though, he surprised me. He acted friendly and happy to see me, almost pleased with himself that he was there and ready to work on conflict resolution.

The mediator asked how we did the previous week and I said I sure as hell didn't know what we did last week... and maybe Mr. Gritty could explain what was going on, because I thought we were in reconciliation, but apparently not, not anymore.

Mr. Gritty told us that he had, indeed, realized he "was bad" and blew up unfairly. He said he realized that after he cooled down and read the texts.

He also explained his lack of texting me after the textkrieg because he figured he had held out the olive branch long enough, and that it was my turn to reach out to him. He didn't text me after his textkrieg because he wanted to see if I would reach out to him.

All righty then. Even the mediator looked a little confused. He gave Mr. Gritty the lecture about texting being bad for communication. Then he asked if Mr. Gritty had done his paperwork.

Of course not. So then the mediator asked him, "Well, do you want to get D or not?" Mr. Gritty said we should still move the paperwork forward, "just in case". But that he feels good that we are headed for reconciliation, and winked at me.

Yes. We are trying to reconcile while in D mediation. Not that this is riddled with mixed messages, or anything.

Nitty Gets LOUD

During our session of conflict resolution Mr. Gritty ended up shouting and leaving the room twice. This is how he acted just before he dropped the bomb, and just before he left me. He wasn't always this bad. But now he is and I basically roll up into a little ball when he does, so we really, really need this conflict resolution stuff.

We practiced discussion techniques meant to diffuse heated situations but when Mr. Gritty got so loud and angry the second time around, the mediator told me to talk to Mr. Gritty just like he talked to me the next time he blows up. (He said this right in front of Mr. Gritty. And hello! MWD's 180! I've always believed a soft answer turns away wrath, but not when you're doing 180s!)

And so I did the first opportunity I could, which turned out to be when Mr. Gritty got angry because I was "making him" provide paperwork for the D. (Because, you know, you don't need to put stuff in writing when you get D. Apparently you only need to give your word that you're being honest and the court will be fine with that.)

I copied Mr. Gritty perfectly, raising my voice and using the same inflections and facial expressions he likes to use, even hit the table once. I have to say it felt good to talk to him like that. He just crossed his arms over his chest and looked sheepish and kind of laughed. But he stopped blaming me for creating paperwork.

TWO MONTHS IS THE NEW DEADLINE

That evening he asked me to dinner, and I went. I asked him how come he still is keeping D mediation going. He said "we should know for sure within at least two months" as to whether or not we should D. He started to go off on me about not trusting his word regarding the paperwork and I asked him to stop.

At that moment I figured, he's probably going to change his mind about reconciling at least a couple of times within the next two months. If we get through it and he want to reconcile, good. If we get through it and he wants to D, I'm not going to fight him one bit.

I am so tired of fighting. And frankly, I'm not so sure what I'm fighting for anymore.

WE'RE GETTING A D! UM, NO, WE'RE NOT!

The next day, he texted that he wanted to make a large purchase using our joint account. I said, "Wait, don't we have a date of separation? Are you buying this for the community property or for yourself?"

His response was that we could do whatever we want, date of separation be damned, and "We are getting D as far as I'm concerned."

I immediately hunkered down in detached mode. Ah, I thought, we are back to this again. Wait a couple of days and we'll be back in reconciliation.

But then he sent a flurry of texts apologizing for the typo. He intended to say, "We are NOT getting a D as far as I'm concerned."

It made me laugh, because in the old days I'd be really upset. Now I'm just, like, business as normal.

TODAY

Today I spent the afternoon with him. At one point he told me, "We have to talk" with this stricken look on his face and instantly I was transported to that awful moment in December when he said the same thing and turned my world inside-out.

But today he only wanted to say "screw the two months," that we should end D mediation and just focus on the conflict resolution. I was relieved, but then we actually got into an argument within five minutes of that announcement. LOL.

The argument reached a crescendo when Mr. Gritty said, "I knew it wouldn't work out!" And I tried to leave.

He stopped me and we agreed to start over. No R talks unless we've got the mediator with us. Before we stopped talking about R, he did say that he will never cheat again because now he fully understands the pain it caused me.

This is not what I consider a good answer. That cheating would cause him pain is a given, but it's not the reason I'm faithful to him. I do not cheat because I don't feel the need for another man, because I value my relationship and know I would destroy it by cheating. So I was a bit concerned about that answer but didn't challenge him on it. Enough of the arguing for today.

After that the afternoon was pleasant, although still a bit stressful for me. After all, I am not saying what I want to say, not telling him about my fears and concerns. The goal is to meet his needs right now, not mine. To save the difficult talks for counseling.

I'm taking this day-by-day. I'm not going to think about tomorrow, only about today. And frankly, when I think about tomorrow, I lose heart. There is so much we're going to have to resolve, and right now we can't even spend one afternoon without him blowing up or getting so agitated he wants to quit the marriage.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Wow Nitty,
Crazy times in the MLC world! Amazing some of the stuff that he has said...like how his A with OW was "..so long ago I can't hardly remember it..". Man, 6 whole months...that's like a lifetime in MLC time! I really don't know how you do it. You are so strong!
Good luck and hang in there!

PS The board message said 24-48 hours. It's been 72+ hours! I sure hope that they are finished and we don't lose all posts from this weekend!

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Nitty:

You are now officially way better at this than most. So cool. You are doing amazing work.

Come say hello on my thread. I lost your post, but I did read it from the "misty time" over the weekend.

Shakspr


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,523
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Nitty

You are holding it together well, LOTS of positives in your sitch ... keep your head on straight and look at the big picture, looks like a the least you are in a much better spot now ... both with the R and yourself than you were a few months ago!!


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Nitty,

I'm glad to hear the positive stuff going on. Some of your Mr. Gritty is sounding like Clark.

Hang in there. I know the rollercoaster isn't over yet, but keep doing what you need to!! Continue to take care of yourself. We will make it through this craziness smile


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Nitty,

Thanks for stopping by my thread...much appreciated!

Wow. Mr. Nitty is off the charts with his hourly/daily mood swings. Just wondering why you two are not in MC or in some conflict resolution workshop.

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Your story has given me hope. I think my situation is a little more dire than most, but don't we all? Thank you for sharing these updates.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 708
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Wow Nitty! That is a wild ride. I'm amazed at your ability to find calm in the midst of the storm. Reconciliation sounds almost as bad as limbo. At least you're closer to the finish line (whatever that may be).


M: 43 H: 39
D: 14
Married 15 Together 16
BD: 6/2014
S: 8/2014
OW revealed 10/2014
Instigated dissolution 12/2014, in progress
So over it!
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Thanks, Shakespr, Matt165, Caliguy, Atsbaby, and Ahoy, for your encouragement.

nmwb123, never give up hope, but keep your focus on you. So many times I've believed we were truly over and yet somehow we still have a chance. There is always a chance.

Wonka, Mr. Gritty and I did 8 sessions of MC after the BD for his EA, but then he confessed that he really had a PA, left me to go back to her, told me to cancel all future MC appts. Since then he's been adamantly opposed to MC, even after he told me he'd broken up with her. That's why I was so encouraged when he agreed to conflict resolution as part of D mediation. Even tho the purpose was merely to keep the D civil, I felt it would help our relationship.

TRYING TO HOLD THE COURSE

Mr. Gritty is out of town this week. For the first time in over year he is sending me very frequent and very affectionate texts. He tells me he loves me, that he is going to work on the R, how he will make everything up to me. The polar opposite of the GritStorms of last months.

In a matter of days my concern has gone from him railroading us through D... to him railroading us through R. Too soon and too fast.

Shakespr used the term "mercurial". Yes. That is what he's been during the separation. Emotions changing like quicksilver within hours, sometimes minutes. But this is BY FAR the biggest positive change in his attitude toward me since the BD. There've been thousands of negative ones, LOL.

I was stressed yesterday about my not answering his texts promptly. I have to work, I have meetings, I had C yesterday afternoon... I've never been tied to my phone. That was one of his complaints about me he had before the BD, that I "never returned" his texts.

Not true... I would return them when I saw them. He saw any delay as a lack of respect because he takes his phone everywhere. One of my complaints about him was he was constantly texting. And of course now I know that before the BD he was texting her.

Yesterday when I'd find a bunch of texts, I knew he'd be upset. I knew he'd feel like I was ignoring him. Pre-BD I would jump in and say, "Sorry! I was in a meeting with X and Y!" I'd explain everything. I got worse immediately after the BD. After he left me I didn't need to worry about answering texts because he rarely sent any, except for business.

But now I have the mindset that how he reacts is not my business. So I let it go. I would respond to the texts when I found them, without apology but with affection.

One of my text breaks yesterday was my IC appointment. My C is concerned about me. He told me I must hold on to my recent independence and confidence and not lose it if I let Mr. Gritty back in my life. He asked me if I remembered all the bad stuff Mr. Gritty said and did.

The C asked me to read a book by Pia Mellody on love addiction and I felt...embarrassed? I asked him, "You think I'm a love addict?" The C said no, but he thought it would help me keep from repeating negative habits.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Posts: 216
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ROLE REVERSAL

So last night I got an astounding text: "I just realized you probably don't want me to text you so much, so am going to slow it down."

WOW... just wow. Echoes of stuff I said immediately after the BD.

I responded that I was out of the habit of checking my phone frequently. I said I didn't want him to think I was dissing him if I didn't respond right away. He started a R discussion so I asked him to call me.

Apparently he did but it went straight to voice mail while I stared at the phone, waiting for it to ring. Thinking he didn't call, I finally texted that he didn't have to call if he didn't want to, that I was going to bed and good night, and the phone rang right away, him sputtering and demanding why I didn't answer the first time he called. Thank you, Phone Company, for more misunderstandings.

He told me he can't help how he feels, and when I don't respond immediately he feels like "you really want to call it off, and that you're not being honest about it."

I wanted to laugh. After months and months of him not being honest with me, with me holding on through thick and thin, he thinks I'm going to drop him now when he's trying to come home? He thinks I'm the one not being honest?

And yet, I did drop the rope, mentally at least. I let go of him and focused on me. Since his decision to reconcile, I have been feeling ambivalent and cautious because I feel certain he's going to run again. I'm wary of angry outbursts where he blames me for stuff I never did.

I told him I hoped we would reconcile, but that if it doesn't work out, we will both be okay. Wrong thing to say.

He sounded bitter: "Great, you ARE pulling away from me." I asked him why he would think that. He said, "That is how I feel!"

I said I was sorry he felt that way. I said I never saw this side of him before, it was so... so... and I painted myself into a corner on that one, couldn't finish the sentence because I was going to say "needy" or "clingy." That would've been the worst thing to say.

He didn't wait for me to finish and said "Yeah, I feel like the pursuer and I don't like it."

I didn't know what to say after that. My first impulse was not charitable, more like, "Yeah, it feels crappy, doesn't it," but instead I said, "Nobody is pursuing anybody, I hope. We're just figuring this out, taking it one day at a time."




M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Oh, Nitty, at least the temperature is changing. I can only imagine that this is just as hard, though.

So I will echo the best part of this post. Hang on to your hard-fought independence. Your confidence will attract Gritty, even when HE panics. He knows he needs both mercy (you refraining from deserved punishment), and is relying on grace (rewards for no reason). That's scary for him, too.

Start using your sense of humor - it will defuse many of these tense moments. Hey, you get to start rehearsing POSITIVE interactions - R talks that Gritty WANTS to have.

Pretty cool. I will reiterate; piecing is a very mundane word for such a blessed thing.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Originally Posted By: Nitty

nmwb123, never give up hope, but keep your focus on you. So many times I've believed we were truly over and yet somehow we still have a chance. There is always a chance.



Thanks, Nitty. I have to file my response to the divorce petition today. I dread it. I do not want to do this. I can't understand why she doesn't realize she does not have a future with her affair partner. Literally two weeks before she left me she was inviting a friend from another country to come and visit us three months in the future. Supposedly these changes were taking place gradually, but her decision to leave was apparently as sudden as it appeared to me. Thank you for your encouragement.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
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My DB coach isn't available until next week. That su cks...

On the plus side, last night Mr. Gritty called to say he realizes my schedule fills up so fast nowadays that he wanted to make a date before I have no time available for him. So we've got a date this weekend.

My goals: continue rebuilding the friendship, no R talks. BE MYSELF but restrain impulses to talk about R.

Actually, I'm not feeling impatient. Actually, I'm feeling ambivalent. I still love the guy, but I believe he's going to run again. I'm concerned about the sudden positive change and am not sure it will last.

And yet I fear I am losing focus, losing detachment. I feel like I'm in a dangerous place. I am worried about losing the Improved Nitty Who Takes Care Of Herself, just like my IC said.

I must continue to live my life as if he is still pursuing D, although I'll be seeing him in more of a friendly sitch. I will only believe that he is serious about R when:
  • He cancels the D
  • He makes the appointment with the MC.

I know I will be ready to R when:
  • I stop rolling up into a little ball when he raises his voice
  • I consistently maintain my boundaries

A major boundary I have now that I haven't since the BD:
  • I will not allow myself to be spoken to in a disrespectful manner. If he starts up, I will say this, and add, "I want to have a conversation in which we do not blame each other."

I expect to be treated as respectfully as I treat others. I deserve to be treated respectfully.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Awesome!


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Journaling here to record a change in how I am handling myself and my emotions.

Yesterday afternoon Mr. Gritty texted me and asked if I had some time to meet him for happy hour at a nice restaurant near us, just for a quick drink, even though we had a date scheduled for tonight. I stressed about this, for three reasons:

Reason No. 1.

The last time we were here was for a quick status meeting in April, while he was still dating other people. As we walked in a strange woman lit up when she saw him. She waved at him, totally ignored me. He nodded at her. When we sat down I asked who she was, he said he didn't know who she was, then said he wasn't really hungry and didn't want to eat there anyway. We got up and left the restaurant, talked a few minutes outside before ending that meeting. I figured she was a former/current date and it really burned me up.

Our next meeting was about a week later, and he used it to tell me that I had agreed to an open marriage and he expected both of us to operate under that agreement. I never agreed to that and was angry, brought up the woman again, asked if she was one of his dates (this was before I was really DBing properly). He said she only waved at him because she knows him from work. The two conflicting stories made me think he was lying to me and that restaurant was one of his trolling places.

Reason No. 2. I didn't really have the time yesterday to meet him. I was having company over and needed to get groceries and clean house, so why was I taking the time to see him when we had a date scheduled the following evening? He always expects me to drop everything at his beck and call!

Reason No 3 Because he told me to "wear something nice". I was short on time, didn't want to take the time to spiff up, and why should I be expected to spiff up for a last-minute date he sprang on me? I resented all the shaving, tweezing, hair-setting, ironing, etc. I'd have to do to get ready, and I still had to go to the grocery store, still clean up the house for houseguests... and was he going to "wear something nice" for me? Probably not! He was coming straight from work...

But then I remembered: I am in control of my life and I choose my reactions. This is a new way of thinking I'm trying to make stick. So three things happened:

1) I let go of my resentment for the restaurant. The restaurant may or may not have been a trolling place, but it only has the value to which I assign it.

2) I let go of my resentment of him expecting me to drop everything and go on this date. I knew how tight my schedule was and yet I agreed to meet him. I DID THIS. So why was I resenting "his demands" of my time? I could've said no and yet I said yes. I am the one who made my schedule even more hectic.

I wanted to meet him so I did, and I shouldn't blame him for it adding more chaos to the day. From now on I will examine my schedule more carefully before committing to a last-minute date. I will examine my reasons for agreeing to meet him if I obviously don't have the time in my schedule.

3) I let go of my resentment of him for having to spiff up, because I don't have to spiff up for any event I don't want to spiff up for.

He can ask me to dress up, and he can ask me not to dress up, and he can ask me to show up stark naked. It doesn't matter what he asks me. Only I can decide what to wear. If I don't have the time or the desire to dress up, I won't dress up.

Perhaps people will think this is stupid, but this is a big behavior change for me. I have lived my life anticipating what other people expect of me. I take on these expectations, thinking they are expectations I must fulfill and they are not! All of my resentments today were resentments I picked up all by myself. He did not lay them on me, I picked them up.

For example, there were so many times during our separation when he would stop being angry at me and ask to meet me in person at the last minute and I would always hop to it... and resent him for it.

But when I walked in and sat down at the restaurant (in my work clothes with some groceries in the car) I reminded myself I chose to be here, and I am being honest with myself for once.

He took my hand and thanked me for waiting. For a minute I was confused... was I late? He had to wait for me? I felt anxious because he always hated to be kept waiting. Then I relaxed. If he chooses to end our relationship because I was a few minutes late tonight, then he is not the right person for me anymore.

I looked at the clock on my phone. I said, "I am right on time."

He rolled his eyes and said, "No, what I meant is, we're here for one reason, because you waited for me." Then he teared up and looked away.

I am still being cautious. I am very, very cautious. I know there is a good chance he's going to run again and I intend to be ready for it. I know we have to get through a lot of MC, I know we have to learn how to argue without me backing down whenever he turns into a blowhard.

But I am so encouraged.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Dang, Nitty!!! Look at YOU!!

Kickin' a$$ and takin' control of YOU. (Applause, whistling, confetti, balloons)

Those are HUGE behavior changes, not stupid in the least!!

All of what you wrote resonated with me. I'm so happy for your growth, and the things you're seeing that you can control.

You're a great example to follow. smile.

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Very Impressive ... I know I was reading and thinking .. man so many could learn from this .. myself included. How many times have we broadcasted resentment towards our spouse for things we actually agreed to in the first place?

Well Done Nitty .. Bravo ... and that "You waited for me" line ... holy crap package that up and send it to a movie house! I know .. baby steps .. but you are going to right direction!


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Good for you!!!


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Nitty,

We all are holding hands in a circle and jumping up & down squealing in joy at H's heartfelt confession!! Way to go! laugh

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I am so happy for you I am crying. Bravo.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Nitty: situation has changed. Come chk out my thread.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Hi, Nitty. Just caught up on your sitch, good news travels fast around here. smile it seems things are going great for you and Mr Gritty.

I especially like your changes and boundaries. That's the key to this whole thing.

Continued good luck.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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Nitty this is fantastic!

Just a word of advice, since I'm in the exact same spot as you. We are moving too fast and I read that you felt you guys were moving too fast. Continue to focus on you. These past 3 weeks, I stopped focusing on me and I blew it last night. For now Clark hasn't run, but he will if I keep going the direction we are.

I let Clark control my life the last 2 weeks. I should have placed more boundaries, slowed him down and told him no more. I was so excited to have him home, that now we are headed the wrong direction. Make your changes stick. Don't feel pressured by Mr. Gritty. Remember he is still going through a MLC. Protect your heart.


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Thanks, everybody, for your good wishes. But that last post seems so full of myself. And I feel I messed up when I tried to encourage Shakspr after OM was discovered. Who am I to be giving advice? Also, my roller coaster ride continues.

Atsbaby, we are still separated but you are right, as you will see below. I wonder how we could do this if we couldn't go back to our respective corners and be by ourselves for a while. With Clark still living with you, that's hard.

JOURNALING HERE:

Last Saturday was our real date, the one that had been scheduled in advance, and I backslid big time. I felt needy, clingy, kept bringing up R questions, then telling myself to back off. I found it difficult to validate or affirm, I interrupted him when he told me what he was feeling, got defensive, and mostly I started building up a pile of resentment.

Sunday I tried working out what exactly was wrong. I decided I feel he expects too much from me. He doesn't understand why I'm not diving in head first because, hey, he's here now, isn't he? And even though it's been eight months of him threatening to D me and being hostile -- with little blips of decent sprinkled here and there -- he thinks his sudden change in attitude is enough to fuel a reconciliation, to rebuild my trust in his intentions.

A side note. I find that I stopped journaling our interactions this week, so it is a blur and I'm not remembering very well what went on. I am really stressed at work because this is our busiest time, until mid November, and I've been working overtime, not spending much time on anything but work.

One thing I do remember: he has been calling me again, which is so nice. For over a year he did nothing but texting. Now I know that not talking in person was him pulling away and staying away, and his calls now are a way to connect in a more personal way.

Tuesday I had a DB coaching session and worked on strategies. Mostly I complained that I was losing it, that I was filled with resentment. She asked me what Mr. Gritty could do to repair things. I was stumped, I'm not sure what he CAN do to repair things. I need to think on that more. I did come up with "hear me". I want Mr. Gritty to hear me.

Wednesday I met with my IC, who I can tell isn't too happy with me reconciling with Mr. Gritty. He wants to make sure I'm not going back to a dysfunctional role in my marriage, keeps reminding me that Mr. Gritty is a needy, high-maintenance kind of guy. He asked me to make a list of my dealbreakers and stick with them.

So I did. First on the list: Mr. Gritty has NC with OW. There are more but I won't go into them all and one will show up later in this post.

My IC also gave me some more books to read, both by Jay Earley. I am to make friends with the scared little girl who will put up with any kind of crap in order to save a relationship that probably doesn't need saving.

Thursday Mr. Gritty and I had our fourth session with the mediator and Mr. Gritty officially ended D mediation. I was so glad he followed through. We then spent an hour in counseling and an hour doing financial issues caused by the separation. Mr. Gritty didn't blow up once during the session, which was a first, and he willingly gave me my expenses. This is a huge breakthrough because he puts his money where his heart is.

SUMMARY OF OUR MC (we're in MC now!) SESSION:

I am always being reminded to be more direct, and to stand up to Mr. Gritty. He is reminded to tone it down. We are to use this strategy:

The moment one of us feels like something is "off" or that we've heard something hurtful or wrong or whatever, the other is to ask for more clarity.

H: You are trying to control me again.

M: I need to understand what it is I'm doing that causes that feeling.

Easy to do in a MC office, not so easy without a coach to referee during a heated session.

Mr. Gritty complained during the session that he dislikes having to pursue me. (Because I'm not asking him out.) Rather than responding with a list of the times I did ask him out, I just asked him to go with me on Saturday to do a watersports activity and then lunch after. That particular watersports activity he's never done before and never wanted to try it. But I put him on the spot and he had to say yes.

WE HAVE A FIGHT

On Friday he called to ask me to dinner. We went to a nice place, had a lovely time but on the drive home we had a gawdawful fight. It was terrible, one of the worst we've had.

It started when he told me (again) that he couldn't accept something I did after he left me. His inability to forgive me for that action is one item on the list of dealbreakers that I created with my IC.

So instead of validating that he felt hurt, I told him that if he couldn't forgive me for what I did when I could forgive him for his EA/PA, then that probably was a dealbreaker. (This is from my list of dealbreakers I made with IC.) And Mr. Gritty blew up. He shouted and yelled. I focused on being direct, matching his tone of voice, etc., instead of withdrawing into silence. All that did was escalate the fight.

It got pretty bad. He started driving too fast and braking hard at stop signs, then accelerating too hard from the stops. All the while telling me off and me standing up to him, which made him even madder.

THE FIGHT GETS REALLY BAD

We finally got back to his place without one of us going through the windshield. Normally we walk through a gate to get to his unit and he holds it open for me because it's a heavy iron gate on a spring. But he just stomped through it and let it go and it hit me in the shoulder because I was right behind him. He jumped when it slammed and immediately moved to reopen it (when it closes it locks) and told me "Sorry!"

I blew up at him and told him through the gate, "FY!" and stomped off to my car.

I have NEVER ever said "FY" to him in our entire life together. When he gets really angry, he'll drop F bombs, tell me "FY", resort to name-calling, etc., and I never did that. Instead, I would tell him he was hitting below the belt, cry, then withdraw. But Friday night I did use profanity. I felt like saying, "FY!" so I did.

He ran ahead of me and was at my car when I reached it and told me I better not leave because he wouldn't go out with me to the watersports activity if I left. We shouted at each other on the sidewalk. That is another thing: he doesn't mind shouting in front of other people. I am never comfortable fighting in public, but I stood up to him and shouted right back, embarrassed about the scene we were causing but doing it anyway.

And I suddenly remembered why I never hit below the belt in the past even if he did: because he will only grab whatever I've said and focus on that rather than whatever we were arguing about in the first place. And our argument that night suddenly became about my "abusive FY" response to him, rather than the original topic.

He asked me if I would like it if he told me to "FY!" He repeated the phrase several times. "How would you like it, hunh? 'FY!' 'FY!' 'FY!' 'FY!' How does that feel, B***h?" I finally remembered my DB coaching. I held up my hand and said those rehearsed statements. "I won't allow you to call me names. I'm going to leave now. We can retry this when we can talk respectfully."

Mr. Gritty asked if I thought it was respectful to tell him, "FY!"? And said that if I left, that would be IT. The END. He wasn't going with me to do watersports and BTW? We would be DONE.

In my calm moments I know I will be okay if we D even though it is the last thing I want. But I did not walk away because I did not want to go back to the mediator and restart the D. I need to be able to call something quits. But I didn't do it.

WE REACH A TRUCE

We shouted some more on the sidewalk before finally agreeing to take it inside. He said the fight started because I issued an ultimatum in the car. I told him it wasn't an ultimatum, but as I write these words I'm wondering if it WAS an ultimatum. Aren't the terms "ultimatum" and "dealbreaker" kind of similar? But I told him I didn't see it as an ultimatum. An ultimatum is telling me that if I leave, we are getting D again.

I started crying, he ran out of steam, then we both sat down and didn't say anything for a while. After some time passed in silence he apologized and then I apologized. We agreed that we need to learn how to fight in a more positive way. I asked if we could watch a show or something, to get the fight out of our heads so we watched something that I can't even remember now. Then I went home.

Yesterday we had a good day. He asked me to breakfast and apologized again for the night before. I accepted the apology and thanked him for it. Told him I was sorry for my part in it. We went to the watersports activity and he had a good time. We had a nice lunch, then decided to watch a movie. Then I went home. But I'm very confused and worried.

I remember better now that I stopped confronting him about stuff because fighting is too hard, too awful. I felt I was helping our marriage become better by swallowing my grievances and letting them go, rather than fight. But now I know that a no-conflict relationship is unhealthy.

To survive, we need to be able to resolve our differences in a good way. But will we be able to? We both flood with so much emotion that we say and do the worst things. My instinct is to withdraw, roll up into a little ball. His instinct is to win at all costs, justifying whatever he does because somebody else "made" him do it.

This morning he called me. He told me that his biggest fear is that we will work hard to be together, then a couple years from now will end up in old habits and relive the hell that was our marriage before he left me, only this time with the baggage from the A, so we'll end up divorcing anyway and he'll have wasted a couple more years of his life.

My thoughts exactly, except that I didn't think our marriage was hell. I thought I had it all figured out, how to avoid conflict and never fight. I thought we were a happy marriage. Now I know that was unhealthy.

I told him we should do what we can to repair things and if we both decide it isn't going to work, then we can D amicably, as friends, rather than in the hostile fashion in which we were trying to D before. (I said "we" even though he was the hostile one, not me, but probably best not to point that out.)

He agreed, but then he said: "Nitty, I feel like we've got a really high chance of surviving. I really believe it. I'm still afraid we'll fail, but I am optimistic that we'll probably make it."

I hope this is true. But it's not going to survive if we can't figure out how to fight more constructively, that's for damn sure.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Mmmmm wow nitty, that whole fight that's was me and my h exactly.

Exactly, but now I do simlar to what you did. In our case I know how it starts and I hope this might help you. Ours starts to go down when he starts to pressure me into unhealthy stuff. As in I must agree to his pov no matter what, even if it costs me money or dignity his view is the only one.

Now when he starts to wind up and I now can see that (before I couldn't until he stated this is circling) and so when he refused to listen or acknowledge and difference I quickly ended the whole meeting.

I said " I'm really sorry but I really do have somewhere I need to be"
It was powerful to be able to stop the start of his abuse, and I believed the statement. ^^
It was my choice to listen or leave.

He could not control that, which was his goal.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Ggrass, that is such a great way to respond. Thank you for this.

I'm really sorry, but I really do have somewhere I need to be.

Thank you for this. Unless I rehearse statements like these, I am stuck. Lately I've been forgetting what I rehearsed. I need to get back to daily review.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I am now branching out in my reading to include "piecing" threads. Raine's thread is especially helpful. I found this quote from TL72* and had an aha moment:

Quote:
"A Jekyll/Hyde MCLer is full of anger, uncontrollable rage, deep unhappiness, and irrationally thinks the LBS is out to get them so their actions are extreme such as gaslighting, engaging in a "gotcha" game with the LBS, and trying to hurt them in every conceivable way (legally, emotionally, financially).

A kitty kitten MLCer is low-level type of person who is deep into the fog, forgetful, spacey, may engage in occasional spewing, and usually does not engage in gamesmanship with the LBS. Most often the LBS can talk back at the kitty kitten MLCer with some well-aimed "truth darts" without any serious blow backs from the MLCer. The anger and rage aren't the predominant driving forces for the kitty kitten MLCer. Forgetfulness and spacey behaviors are at the forefront for the kitty kitten MLCer.


I have a label I may apply to Mr. Gritty now. He is a "Jekyll/Hyde MLCer."

When he feels vulnerable, he immediately assumes I am out to get him. If he feels he's been hurt, he immediately tries to "even the score".

He was being hard about money (it was all "his" and my share was what he "gave" me). At one point he said he'd fight me "tooth and nail" about any support at all unless I put in writing that I would work 40 hours a week during the entire time I received any support.

And yet he wasn't cruel legally. He did gaslight. Always claimed to "catch" me in lies or attempts to hurt him.

Right now he is Dr. Jekyll. Mr. Hyde reared his head during our fight on Friday night. I need to find more advice about dealing with a Jekyll/Hyde MLCer, especially regarding piecing.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Nitty, please never be sorry for encouraging me. I said it before and I'll say it again - I need both encouragement and the occasional 2 x 4 to DB to the best of my ability - especially post-D.

I don't have anything to add to the above. Full-blown fight mode is not somewhere I'm comfortable either. I do believe that you have entered a hard, scary place with your MLC H. But you have proven to us and to Gritty and to YOURSELF that you are tough enough to make it.

He said "thank you" to you for waiting for him for a reason.

MR alert: Perhaps he's scared of all the work HE knows he'll have to do now to forge a better relationship. And he doesn't know if he's up to the task. And he isn't out of blame mode yet, so it's easier to create "straw man" what-if arguments in his own mind than to simply be solution-oriented.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Did you read where I was dressed up?

To collect my things, I went in dressed to kill. i had that line and the thought I'm meeting one of the shop hotties.

I wasn't but boy I had myself convinced I was.

I found something that works in stopping his rail roading of me. When I saw my psych In The shop she said the I have somewhere to be. Is one she uses and teaches her clients to use.

Last edited by Ggrass; 10/07/14 04:46 AM.

M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Hi Nitty,

Sorry to bother you. You were so kind to respond to me before, so I wonder if I can ask you another question? Did your husband communicate much with you? My wife hasn't contacted me at all in two months. She filed for divorce during that time without having the decency to tell me. Now her lawyer has requested mediation. Did you do anything in particular to "woo" your husband back during mediation, or did he come around on his own? Unfortunately, my wife's affair continues, but I'm hoping it will end before our mediation begins two months from now.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
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GGrass, you and I had the same strategy... whenever I knew I'd be seeing H, I'd dress to the nines, act like I had someplace to go. But I'm going to use that line, I think, when we're on a date and it goes south.

Shakspr, thanks for letting me know you're ok with me... I felt pretty bad that I made you feel worse!

wmwb123, here is a couple million words that are flowing out of my brain. Sorry I am so wordy.

My H left me almost two months after BD. We'd been doing MC during that time, but as he never cut it off with OW it was doomed from the start. You should have no expectations, but realize no progress will be made if she is still seeing OW.

I have absolutely no idea why my H asked for reconciliation. I did not start my DB journal here until the end of summer, but I've been journaling at home since early December when I got the BD. In looking through the millions of pages I wrote, I recorded him trying to reconcile a couple of times before, but always on his terms and it never lasting more than a couple of days before he would become hostile, curse and abuse me verbally and drop out of sight again.

In the first six months of our drama, I did try to "woo" him. It did not work at all. I wasn't true to myself, did whatever I thought he wanted of me, whatever it would take to bring him back. EPIC FAIL.

Then a seriously nasty event happened in which even I could see he was not protecting me, in fact, he was hurting me and I was letting him hurt me because I had no boundaries. That was in May, and immediately after the nasty event he insisted I had agreed to an open marriage. I had just read DR and resolved to stick with a boundary I would not let slide like I had every other boundary that had crumbled in the last year: "I will not live in an open marriage."

As he "needed" an open marriage, he announced he would D me.

At that point I decided to really GAL, not just pretend I was GAL to get him back. I worked at no longer focusing on him all the time, not as a method of winning him back but as a way to save my sanity. Somehow I really think that's when he started looking back. The "dropping the rope" metaphor is totally on target. When I stopped pulling at him, perhaps he turned to see why I wasn't pulling anymore.

I started doing things I always wanted to do but H didn't (GAL). Camping, watersports, concerts, local high school and community events, ballroom lessons... I've got a list I'm working my way through. If I couldn't find something to do, I had friends over for dinner and sang and played board games. The point is: be with people and do something fun. I wanted to join a dodgeball league, for example, but my work schedule interfered.

I posted jokes, funny videos, and inspirational messages on FB, but no pix of myself. Instead, my friends posted pix of me hanging out with them. When he'd hint via text that he was curious about what I was doing, I forced myself not to tell him every detail (a 180 for me). I was mysterious and not the open book I've been my entire life.

He started contacting me more but the contact was mostly hostile and always by text. It was difficult and emotionally straining. I cried a lot. I tend to be timid when it comes to confrontation and those months of gritstorms and textkriegs were hell.

I did try to be as attractive as possible whenever I knew there was a chance of seeing me. I spent money on hair "blowouts" until I learned how to do them myself. I wore the outfits he always liked. When we started mediation, I did power poses in the stairwell of the mediator's office. I did tapping.

Then I just began living as if I was getting D no matter what. I just accepted it was going to happen. I told co-workers I was going to get D. I began to plan my life as a D woman. Plans included international travel with a group of friends next year. I even considered teaching English in an Asian country for a couple of months. I began to visualize myself in a world without my H, and it wasn't too bad. The possibilities were huge. It would be a second life. How many people get the chance to live a second life? The good Walter Mitty life, not the bad one?

I was still grieving and in pain, just looking forward. I was still suffering whenever he'd text me in a hostile fashion. Sometimes I couldn't sleep because I was so fearful of the D process, of his reactions to me asking for alimony for example. I still prayed for courage. I put us on every prayer list I could find. At first my prayers begged God to bring him back, but then I asked God to do what was right for both of us, to help me face whatever was coming. I meditated, read books, but I figured D was going to happen.

I kept a list of things I was grateful for and concentrated on how grateful I felt and how good my life is, even without H in it. I made myself look in my mirror in the morning and tell myself how much I loved me, that I loved me like God loved me, like I loved my kids. I tried to feel the love. THIS WAS SO HARD. I did not love me. I think I love me now but looking in the mirror was one of the hardest things to do.

I messed up constantly. I wanted more than anything to show him I was a strong, confident woman, about to be set loose on the world. But I cried through our D mediation sessions. Sometimes I wouldn't validate or affirm him, just slap him (via text) with what I felt. Like him blasting me (via text) for poisoning his career by telling his coworkers about the A. (I never did that--it turns out his A was the talk of the office before even the BD.)

I responded: "Real remorse wears the shame and takes responsibility for the fallout. Fake remorse wants me to protect your image." (I got this from Chumplady. I can never think of good things to say on my own. LOL.) And he stopped texting me that night.

I based all my actions on the research I did on the threads on this forum. I focused on threads of successful reconnection. I concluded that some M will fail even if the LBS is a perfect DBer. But I made sure to note the attitude and actions of those who succeeded. I especially like Starsky's threads (he was ChocolateEyes then). I tried to channel Starsky's attitude. Never got it even 60%, but just trying was, I think, positive for me.

But really, Mr. Gritty trying to come back right now is all his idea. He may run again and I will be hurt. We are fighting terribly this week. TERRIBLY. And only because I am doing what the conflict resolution expert is telling me to do, because I had stopped fighting with H during our M. (If you always fought during your M, your advice from a conflict resolution expert will probably be different.)

Anyway. Each time we fight, I think he will run. So far he is still trying and so am I.

I won't take anything for granted. We are still separated and probably will be for a while. No expectations. I take it one day at a time. On Monday I was ready to throw in the towel. I felt like I lost all the love I had for him and would be happier D.

I looked at the list I made of things I can do if I am D. I look at it and tell myself "I will be okay no matter what. How about I take Lindy Hop lessons during the next adult ed semester!" But I also found my list of goals that I made in April. The first two say, "He will stop threatening D." and "He will stop dating others." When I wrote that, I did not believe it would happen, and now it has. And I was encouraged.

If I were you, I would do my best to turn away from her, to turn instead to your future without her. Treat her as a sister, a good friend you love and are concerned about, but not the center of your world. If she needs something unrelated to leaving you, help her if you have the time and it doesn't hurt you, but do it without expectations. Tell her you wish her well and walk away. Doing this is very, very hard, SO HARD.

During your D, do the bare minimum you need to do to be considered cooperative. In my case, I could've helped Mr. Gritty with his D paperwork, but I did not. I could've moved the D along, but I did not. And he never filled out the forms he needed, never brought in the financial documents he needed to bring. I did not complain. I figured: time is my friend.

My friend Shakespr co-signed a lease on an apartment for his W. I'm so glad I don't have minor children that need housing with the WAS. Shakespr HAD to protect his kids, but if there are no kids, don't co-sign anything for the WAS or help the WAS with moving out or anything else related to leaving you. Always be busy and unavailable to help.

Act as if you look forward to your future with or without her, because your future is gonna be awesome. You're not signing up for online dating, but you ARE and WILL live a good life without her. Because God is awesome and He won't let you down. Everything happens for a reason. This is only part of your story. Who knows how it will end.


PS: I also hired a DB coach because I am no good at strategy. I needed a strategist I could tell everything to and who would say, "Yeah, H was pretty damn nasty. How about we try something different. Let's do this. Let's protect you AND help the M." Instead of someone saying, "He is an emotionally abusive a$$hole! You need to protect yourself! Screw him! Dump his a$$!) I paid for 6 DB sessions, thinking, "well, I am going to get D. It's hopeless. But maybe I can keep the road home paved and clear with a coach's help. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't."


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Thanks so much, Nitty. That's great stuff. I'm going to read that several times. My wife and I have not communicated in any way in more than two months. I don't know how she's interpreting that. I imagine that the next time we see each other will be at mediation. I'm praying daily that the affair will implode. Time is definitely my friend, and providentially, the mediation date is more than two months from now. I can't imagine that's normal, and since it's her lawyer that's delaying things I have to believe God is working behind the scenes. I'll try to be positive at the mediation sessions. Thank you again for that response.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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My wake up moment was when h had said if you need anything or there is drama emergencies just call me as I will help out.

So dumbar$e me believed this, and when there was a flood (he has 4wd that could have accessed my house) and I could not get home (my car got bogged in a ditch at 10pm in the country miles from anywhere) and my son was home alone I called h. Who refused to take the call. Who then called back 16hours later to blow sand in my face. which I missed the call because I had no mobile phone left dead battery no charger. He then refused to take my call later that day as he was "to busy" then when he caught up with me 5 days later he had no idea why I told him he wasn't my friend he put my sons life at risk in a sense.

It was all about him, him making him seem very important. Sometimes we need these wake up calls. To see how things really are. I didn't need the negativity in my life and neither do you nitty.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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The first part of last week we had some bad arguments. If we weren't arguing, I was in turmoil, not saying what I was thinking and acting like I didn't have a million thoughts bouncing through my brain all the time.

One evening I just told him what I thought, that his anger during the fights is corroding my love for him, how I fought so hard to keep us together and he was so punishing and harsh, as if I was the one who betrayed him. I told him it hurt me so bad I felt like I wanted to leave him.

He backed away from me and got really, really angry. He informed me that his life had become an onslaught of one attack after another from me, and this last attack just hurt him more than he'd ever been hurt!

And if I felt this way just because of a little argument? Why, he could never feel safe again! That he would constantly worry that Nitty might run away after every little argument! And just because he got a little mad?!?

It made him wonder: how he could be so committed to us when Nitty obviously wasn't committed at all! What the hell was he busting his a$$ for in this reconciliation if Nitty was so willing to give up so easily!?!

Does he understand the concept of IRONY at all?

My resentments became explosive. I could no longer reason them out like I did that day Mr. Gritty thanked me for waiting for him.

I went home, very angry. The fight continued through the evening via text and then through some ultra drama queen moves on his part, but I don't see the need to go into it.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I decided to make a list of my resentments:

One Resentment. He is pushing for us to move in together again, but not at our house. He wants me to move into his place, or for us to buy another house and move there. He says he is not comfortable going back to the old neighborhood where we've lived over 20 years, because the neighbors "know too much."

Honestly, moving away seems like hiding to me, like he's not coming back, but just trying to run away and take me with him. I told him no but he is insistent. I feel resentful right there, like our reconciliation may be off unless I agree to move away from our old neighborhood.

Another resentment. He keeps pushing me to spend the night at his place. We ML, sure, but I'm not yet ready to spend the night there. I won't go into details, but where he is living now is a place that was very special to the two of us before BD, for so many reasons. And then I got kicked out so she could come in.

She slept in our bed, helped him host parties there. They engaged in their PA there. I found her mascara there. I keep finding her kids' toys there. Her favorite junk food is still in the cupboards and freezer. There are new candles all over the place. I imagine that she bought them for romantic evenings together and I HATE it. I won't open anything anymore, just try to ignore what is out in the open. I let him get everything we need from cupboards or drawers. But I feel like little bits of her are hidden EVERYWHERE.

The "I Wanno Know" Resentment. I want to know things but I can't ask. I want to know what kind of plan he has to keep this from happening again. I want to know when he's going to get rid of all of her stuff! I want to know what he spent our money on. I want to know who the other women are, in case I run into them. Right now they feel like ticking time bombs to me. I just want to be prepared. And most of all, I want him to know how much he hurt me.

The Flashback Resentments. I am starting to have flashbacks again, probably because we're entering the time of year when his EA turned into a PA.

#1. I remember how worried I was, fearing my H was going to have a heart attack or a stroke, because he was so stressed all the time. He told me it was his job. So I did everything I could to make life at home as easy as possible. When he was telling her how miserable his life with me was.

#2 When he had to "work late," I kept his dinner warm until I finally had to put it away. He suddenly started working later than he ever had in his career, and I never questioned anything. I was so trusting, so stupid.

#3 I remember one day last fall when I helped him find something he lost, and then he became very cold. Told me that he realized I had actually hidden the item. That there was no use in claiming otherwise, because HE KNEW for a fact that I had hidden it. The only question, he wondered, was why? "I think you just can't help yourself, hiding things from me. It's just a compulsion you have, to lie and hide things from me. I guess this is just something I must accept about you." I denied it, of course, but he was adamant. And every now and then he would bring it up and ask me if I was ready "to level" with him about it. "No? Not yet? Hmmm."

#4 That episode was so bizarre that I started noting his behavior in my planner, just in case I had to tell a doctor. I truly thought he was about to have a stroke brought on by work stress, like how he would suddenly rage at me because I was late coming home (even though I texted to let him know), or because I was a "freeloader" because I didn't work full time, or because I was spending too much time at work. I noted so many strange behaviors last fall I had to buy a bigger planner just to fit it all in

#5 One day he accused me of going to a cafe with someone because he found a receipt on the kitchen counter. I pointed out that the debit card number on the receipt didn't match any of ours and he said, "So you had your host pay for your lunch. You just can't help yourself with all the lies!" I didn't know where that damn receipt came from and I felt panicky, like maybe I HAD gone to that cafe and just couldn't remember. (Turned out the receipt belonged to S25.)

#6 -- Infinity! All these things kept me off balance last fall. Now I know the term for it: gaslighting. And I know he was projecting his sins onto me, to justify what he was doing. So many times I would tell myself, I'm just feeling paranoid. I ignored my gut.

#Infinity And Beyond! I'm remembering all this. His behavior toward me was cruel. And I'm not even going to go into the cruelties he inflicted during the S.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Back to our fights. The "How Dare Nitty Threaten to Leave Me" fight was ultra dramatic. He told me he would never feel safe again, because all I ever did to him anymore was attack him. Hurt him. Threaten to abandon him.

I thought, "Hell, I am not going to hold his hand through every tantrum and ignore my own feelings of abandonment." I imagined what it would be like to tell him "Let's just end this crap. I'd rather be D." I spent hours wondering if I was strong enough to end it.

I berated myself for claiming "marriage is forever" and there I was, considering ending it. Was I willing to end it because he was trying to reconcile and I have "the power" now? I certainly don't feel very powerful. I feel like I have no power at all. I feel like we continue to do everything on his terms.

A bit of a turnaround.

But the day after the "She's Leaving Me!" Fight he texted me and asked me if I wanted to leave him because he didn't want to come back to the old neighborhood. That was an amazing question because it showed me he'd been thinking about his own actions and how they may have had an effect on me. At least, that's how I took it.

I wrote back about how it was so hard to reach out to him after I had just endured an entire year of feeling attacked... by his PA and its aftermath and the S and the D he initiated. And yet I reach out because I believe we can save us.

So for him to constantly tell me I am attacking him when I do stuff like ask him to stop raging at me... it just makes me want to crawl in a hole and bury myself.

He said he didn't want me feeling that way. That was four days ago. Since then he's been trying, I can see that. I say something and cringe, thinking, well, he'll go off on that for certain. And he doesn't. Somehow he doesn't even flinch whereas before he would just blast away.

So yesterday I felt better, like I could breathe more easily when I'm around him.

This morning he texted me how depressed he felt, because he can see all the havoc he caused, and he is so very sorry for it. I reassured him, thanked him for trying. Told him I love him very much.

This week has shown me that it's really going to be rocky for a while, but he IS trying. So I am again encouraged. Thank you, God, for pulling me through this. I feel like I'm still walking through Hell, but as before, I'm just gonna keep on walking, and I know You are with me.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I'm praying for you, Nitty. This part is the hardest, they say.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Indeed. Hang in there Nitty.


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Originally Posted By: Nitty
I decided to make a list of my resentments:

One Resentment. He is pushing for us to move in together again, but not at our house. He wants me to move into his place, or for us to buy another house and move there. He says he is not comfortable going back to the old neighborhood where we've lived over 20 years, because the neighbors "know too much."

Honestly, moving away seems like hiding to me, like he's not coming back, but just trying to run away and take me with him. I told him no but he is insistent. I feel resentful right there, like our reconciliation may be off unless I agree to move away from our old neighborhood.

Another resentment. He keeps pushing me to spend the night at his place. We ML, sure, but I'm not yet ready to spend the night there. I won't go into details, but where he is living now is a place that was very special to the two of us before BD, for so many reasons. And then I got kicked out so she could come in.

She slept in our bed, helped him host parties there. They engaged in their PA there. I found her mascara there. I keep finding her kids' toys there. Her favorite junk food is still in the cupboards and freezer. There are new candles all over the place. I imagine that she bought them for romantic evenings together and I HATE it. I won't open anything anymore, just try to ignore what is out in the open. I let him get everything we need from cupboards or drawers. But I feel like little bits of her are hidden EVERYWHERE.

The "I Wanno Know" Resentment. I want to know things but I can't ask. I want to know what kind of plan he has to keep this from happening again. I want to know when he's going to get rid of all of her stuff! I want to know what he spent our money on. I want to know who the other women are, in case I run into them. Right now they feel like ticking time bombs to me. I just want to be prepared. And most of all, I want him to know how much he hurt me.

The Flashback Resentments. I am starting to have flashbacks again, probably because we're entering the time of year when his EA turned into a PA.

#1. I remember how worried I was, fearing my H was going to have a heart attack or a stroke, because he was so stressed all the time. He told me it was his job. So I did everything I could to make life at home as easy as possible. When he was telling her how miserable his life with me was.

#2 When he had to "work late," I kept his dinner warm until I finally had to put it away. He suddenly started working later than he ever had in his career, and I never questioned anything. I was so trusting, so stupid.

#3 I remember one day last fall when I helped him find something he lost, and then he became very cold. Told me that he realized I had actually hidden the item. That there was no use in claiming otherwise, because HE KNEW for a fact that I had hidden it. The only question, he wondered, was why? "I think you just can't help yourself, hiding things from me. It's just a compulsion you have, to lie and hide things from me. I guess this is just something I must accept about you." I denied it, of course, but he was adamant. And every now and then he would bring it up and ask me if I was ready "to level" with him about it. "No? Not yet? Hmmm."

#4 That episode was so bizarre that I started noting his behavior in my planner, just in case I had to tell a doctor. I truly thought he was about to have a stroke brought on by work stress, like how he would suddenly rage at me because I was late coming home (even though I texted to let him know), or because I was a "freeloader" because I didn't work full time, or because I was spending too much time at work. I noted so many strange behaviors last fall I had to buy a bigger planner just to fit it all in

#5 One day he accused me of going to a cafe with someone because he found a receipt on the kitchen counter. I pointed out that the debit card number on the receipt didn't match any of ours and he said, "So you had your host pay for your lunch. You just can't help yourself with all the lies!" I didn't know where that damn receipt came from and I felt panicky, like maybe I HAD gone to that cafe and just couldn't remember. (Turned out the receipt belonged to S25.)

#6 -- Infinity! All these things kept me off balance last fall. Now I know the term for it: gaslighting. And I know he was projecting his sins onto me, to justify what he was doing. So many times I would tell myself, I'm just feeling paranoid. I ignored my gut.

#Infinity And Beyond! I'm remembering all this. His behavior toward me was cruel. And I'm not even going to go into the cruelties he inflicted during the S.



Nitty that was my life expect he wasn't accusing me of taking his things but of having muliple affairs. Yes I was a lazy, woman of low profession starting with w! Even tho I worked 80hours per week at times.

I took just took the Bins out no hair done, no make up and guess who happened to drive by!
Rolls eyes just my luck. How does he know to pick that moment of all times.

Last edited by Ggrass; 10/12/14 11:08 PM.

M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 412
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Nitty:

I know that this must be hard. That you have to examine every syllable that comes out of your mouth. That you trace and retrace every conversation. That you read piecing threads, take it slow, try not to spook him off.

I think, at this point, that I would start asking him if he understands what true forgiveness really means. And I would couple that with your need for complete transparency at some point in the future.

I would refuse, politely, to stay the night in the bungalow until every single item the OW put there was gone. He can take as long as he likes, but that is a requirement.

And know, KNOW DEEP IN YOUR HEART, that I would go to war to be where you are right now. With a shot. An actual chance. Do not let fear stop you from doing what you know you must to put your marriage back together.

Every single one of us is rooting you on. Praying for you. Hoping, that one more time, Love will Win.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Nitty, I just caught up on your situation. I am praying for you tonight. Stay firm, stay strong, and stay with the program.

(((Nitty)))


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
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Yeah, shak some of would die. So keep on keeping on! Eyes on what you really want.

Although sometimes I think the quote "not sure if I could take him back now even if he was gold plated" sticks in my head.

My h is still fibbing his son is about over him too, looking like he could have a major health issue like demeture his memory Is shot to pieces.
comments like "I have never seen the moon come up over there before"
He has lived here all his life and we all know the moon didn't just move.

Last edited by Ggrass; 10/13/14 10:03 AM.

M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
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wmwb123 and HopeTex and Jefe and Shakspr and GGrass, I am still praying for you guys, too! Thank you so much for your prayers.

GGrass, in reading what your H had done in the past and recently, I understand exactly why you would have misgivings about taking him back.

Originally Posted By: Shakspr
And know, KNOW DEEP IN YOUR HEART, that I would go to war to be where you are right now. With a shot. An actual chance. Do not let fear stop you from doing what you know you must to put your marriage back together.


YES. Yes, yes, and quadruple YES. Shakspr, we were at the precipice, looking over the brink. So close to losing our marriage! And I was planning to keep working at saving us even if we did get D.

And now we have a chance without getting D... I must not blow it.

I've been feeling sort of guilty, knowing my marriage got plucked and tossed onto The Second Chance Pile while so many others are still being driven relentlessly to D, and yet I am still struggling, kind of whining about "it's so hard, Waah!"

Maybe I can just see it as being farther on the path than you guys, kind of alert you to what you can expect during reconciliation. Like... here's a newsflash: you guys are gonna be surprised at how resentful you can become!

OK. I am going to work HARD with this second chance. Even if I have doubts, I will keep at it. There is no turning back. There is only going forward. I've come too far to just quit. I WILL NOT QUIT.

I will only express my resentments here. And I've got to get my act together, make a list of what I need to feel safe in this reconciliation.

1) A transparency plan. YES.

2) Getting rid of all her CRAP THAT IS STILL IN OUR PROPERTY. I didn't realize how much hatred I've got for her. I'm praying for help to let that go. If I'm not hating him, why should I be hating her? If I know the other OWs, I probably won't hate them as much, because he LOVED this OW, and she tried to take what was mine. She slept in my bed.

3) I need more ideas. I need to research what makes other LBS feel safe again during reconciliation. Like, I want him to start wearing his ring again. Not that wearing a ring is a guarantee, but still.

I'm not sure a list of things is as important as rebuilding trust, because once trust is built, the list is unnecessary, right?


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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MOVIE MOTIVATION.

Yes.

Take out the trash!

By gum, I am going to take out the trash.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Nitty, emotionally, I'm right there with you. But you are DB'n. Please remember one thing.

It's his trash to take out. State your boundaries. Let him choose to respect them, or not.

(((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Posts: 316
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Nitty, don't feel guilty. We're all envious, but not one of us would wish you to be back in the DB stage with us. We're all happy for you and praying that things will work out for you. You're a great person, and you deserve to be happy!! Piecing is hard work, so feel free to vent all you want.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Posts: 1,104
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AMEN^^^


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Something is happening... OW just blocked me from her FB profile.

Before I get a bunch of 2' x 4's, hear me out.

I spent a large part of this MLC not DBing. FB was a huge source of intel once I got the BD. OW and I were FB friends because we were friends IRL before the BD (at least I thought we were friends).

The day H told her he gave me the BD, she changed her profile pic for the first time in 2 years. She began posting quotes about "seizing happiness when it comes" and "not caring what the world thinks about us". H "liked" everything she posted.

Even though she knew I knew about her, she did not defriend me. I did not defriend her because, hello, INTEL. The three of us remained FB friends.

It was like a game of chicken. She knew I knew. She continued to "like" only those posts and photos of him that did not contain any family members. He continued to "like" everything she posted, even though we were in MC.

She finally defriended the both of us -- just before H left me me to go back to her. Those were awful days. I would review her FB public profile almost hourly, looking for profile pic changes, checking to see if she and H became friends again (they didn't).

Then I found this forum and began DBing in earnest. I started weaning myself off FB stalking. I limited myself to peeking at their profiles once a day, then once a week, and by the time I got to once a month I would forget to look. Because I was GAL.

Last week I felt Mr. Gritty was serious about reconciling so I decided to block her. I looked at her public profile for the first time in a long while. I found I couldn't go through with it because how would I know if she and Mr. Gritty became friends again? I prayed on it, finally got up the balls to block her, went to do it yesterday and guess what?

She already blocked me! She actually made an action to secure her privacy against me and she did it within the last 7 days.

I am not going to tell anybody I've been blocked, only you guys. Nobody but you will understand my former stalker status as a Pre-DBer. And all of you will understand why it would be stupid to let anybody else know, especially Mr. Gritty.

But... something is happening on her end. She is going to do something. Just what, I don't know. More important is how H responds.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Hey Nitty,

I'm still behind on your sitch, but your OW sounds like mine. They are really pi$$ed when our H want to try and work out things with us and will try anything to sabotage our families!

I haven't posted my craziness from this weekend yet, but FB is turning into a big foe of mine. And definitely don't tell Mr. Gritty about your FB stalking. Mine is still upset from 3 years ago when I messaged his OW to tell her thank you for opening my eyes to my sitch. She didn't tell him, I did. We can keep your secret wink


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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Nitty, I get sucked into the Facebook trap too. My wife "unfriended" me Sat in retaliation because I stupidly brought up the di*k picture I found on her phone back in Aug.

I would keep it on the DL until you have more intel.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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I have never had a Facebook account. I feel that my life is much more fulfilling as a result. wink

But, I can crack an iPhone, if anyone's interested. smile

(shakspr is bad, mm-kay. snooping's bad. Don't snoop and don't shakspr.)

Going to bed now. Nitty, I'll get back to you sometime tomorrow.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,118
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Lol, crack iPhone, isn't that done by dropping the damn thing! wink

Oh well, just keep on keeping on kids.


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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Nitty

Yeah ... ITs safe here .. if anyone understands the FB stalking thing its all of us here. My W unfriended me some time ago (red flag I didnt see) ... to her it was the 3 strike rule, however she can not tell me what the first 2 strikes are at this point. She has me blocked, a few months ago she had unblocked me .. but OM "liked" and commented on a pic... she blocked me probably to avoid me blowing up. However her page was public back then so I could still see everything ... Intel in a way .. but I was not getting much. I think she has private settings now, like you I have slowed down the stalking and its helped me. There is still alot of curiosity on my end .. but its not as bad as it once was.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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....and....

where's Nitty? Hope she's GAL'g like a champ and has ol' Gritty on the ropes!


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 316
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I second Shakspr's comments.


M 16 T 17
W moved in w/ AP (OW) 5/14
ILYBNIL 5/14
A discovered 6/14
D papers served via USPS 8/14
Filed my response 9/14
D final 5/15...
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Bump


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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How's it going Nitty?


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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Nitty - Concerned about you...your last post said 'something is happening'! Hope all is ok in your neck of the woods...


Me 53, XH 57
M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids
BD June '13
H moved out July '13
Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14
H filed for D Nov. '14
D March '15
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Waiting here ... hope all is well and the "something" is good!


M: 48
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M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hey, guys, thanks for thinking of me, I really appreciate the love and concern coming from all of you. I wish I'd committed to this forum during the first days after BD. I think I would've done so much better than I did.

I've been AWOL because I thought Mr. Gritty had discovered me writing here so I laid low until I felt sure I was still anonymous. Also, I've been doing a lot of overtime at work and not had much time to write. Overtime will continue through the next two weeks but won't be as bad.

A lot has happened. The issue with the OW has not yet revealed itself, so we shall see what develops on that front. No fights this week, partly because I got some good tips for dealing with the flooding I get when Mr. Gritty starts to go off the deep end, partly because he is really trying, and partly because we're avoiding hot button topics. Like money.

Important stuff I've learned:

I've been learning little strategies in conflict resolution to express my needs in an assertive yet non-aggressive, non-passive-aggressive, non-defensive way. We have to get us through this time when Mr. Gritty has to deal with hot buttons like money and we still don't trust each other, so communication during conflict has been especially difficult for me.

I've been studying this kind of stuff since BD but still struggle with it. But now I'm getting tips I can really use from the mediator/conflict resolution/MC (let's just call him the mediator from now on). Maybe this is because he does a lot of depositions in business and family matters as part of his job, and he has a lot more constructive advice, like "if x happens, you can do/say y. This usually works because it won't sound like you're saying z."

He says rebuilding trust is the most important thing we have to do in order to successfully reconcile. That once trust is rebuilt, transparency plans are unnecessary. However, I will be talking to a DB coach soon because I also feel like I need more than successful communication, I also need a roadmap for reconciliation.

Anyway. The mediator told me something I want to share with you...

How Mr. Gritty Turned From D to Reconciliation (according to the mediator)

Apparently the pivotal moment that caused H's turnaround was during our second session, when I turned in all my financial paperwork.

I originally wrote down every detail about our 2nd mediation appointment but didn't post that original version because it was thousands of words and I felt it revealed too many details about our lives. So I hacked it down to almost nothing in comparison. The stuff I left out included an awful episode when I had to tell Mr. Gritty that I'd hired someone to prepare our finances for D.

The mediator said the change in Mr. Gritty's attitude was immediate and quite visible. Visible to him, maybe, but not to me. I saw no change in H's attitude except for increased hostility. I had been terrified of this appointment, knowing he would see what I'd done as some sort of betrayal or an act of war, and of course, he saw it as both. Was either of those things my intention? No.

But I felt he was in such a fog, such an altered state of MLC that I did not believe we could get to an equitable distribution of our estate without a lot of him shouting throughout the entire process. I knew his tantrums would eat up a huge chunk of everything we'd saved in three decades of frugal living to lawyer's fees and taxes. I did not believe Mr. Gritty would be fair to me, either.

The alternative was for me to hire a L to sit with me during mediation because I knew I wouldn't be able to stand up for myself or for the estate, and that would cause an even larger escalation of hostilities, delays, and increased costs. I chose instead what I felt was the best long-term decision: to get our finances in order, thereby getting the shouting over all at once while saving as much of the community property as possible from taxes and legal fees.

Added to my fear was the fact that hiring the financial people cost a ton of money. But I did it. I couldn't sleep afterward, I kept second-guessing myself. I'd never spent that much money in my entire life, but I would finally calm myself down by remembering that at even double the cost it was a small price to pay to get the worst part of the D negotiations over all at once in an equitable fashion.

Somehow that agonizing decision may have reversed our D and put us into reconciliation.

The mediator said Mr. Gritty had his little D drama all planned out. He told me...

"Then you did what a rational and reasonable person in your circumstances should do. You obviously didn't want to D, but as Mr. Gritty was determined, you took care of yourself. You got your paperwork in order, found legal assistance and showed you were prepared to move on. Your H didn't expect this from you and it shocked him. Your H thought he was in charge of everything that was happening until that point. He didn't expect to lose control of his plan. It woke him up."

Who knows. And it is true that after the second session, Mr. Gritty made a significant move toward ending his hostilities. So maybe it's true.

I've asked H a couple of times why he changed his mind. I've gotten different answers, like: "Cause I saw how pretty you are." And "Because our friend told me I would just marry you back a couple of years later, so why not avoid the D in the first place." At least the mediator's reason makes sense.

And now for some communication tips I've learned:

1) If I feel any statement from H is odd, or "off" or an attack, or just anything my gut feels is a big "whoa!" I should try to take as long as I can to respond. The longer I take, the more more information I will collect in order to answer, and the more his aggression (which the mediator says is H really feeling fear and confusion, which he doesn't like, so he gets angry) will dissipate.

Ways to delay my response/calm down include:

a. Sit quietly and smile as if I am slightly concerned. I am, because I want to get it right, I want to understand H's position.

b. Take a deep breath. Take another. Take as many as possible.

c. Ask him to repeat himself. "Did I hear you correctly? That I'm trying to cheat you?" or "I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said?"

d. Ask for clarification. "I want to understand what you are saying/asking. I want to make sure I get it right." OR "You asked me two questions... I think? What was the first question?" My attitude is always friendly, asking him to help me understand him better.

2) If I am pushed to make a response, here is another statement to memorize and fall back on; it asks for clarity while defusing aggression:

"I'm not quite sure I understand what that statement means."

So far, I've been working on this and it's been helping a lot. A couple of days ago H had a hiccup of aggression regarding money, which has always been his hot button. I was stumbling through the steps above, and Mr. Gritty slowed down and stopped himself. He later sent me a text that was apologetic. He explained (what I already knew) that money talks leave him agitated.

But really?

Every day that goes by, he acts more and more like his old self. It's starting to feel he is turning back into the good Mr. Gritty that I know and love, only better, and then...

... And then something happens that reminds me of the crap he did, of how he left me to go back to her, left me twisting and agonizing in the MLC wind, or how he would just suddenly turn on me and blame me for his infidelity because I was such a failure as a wife, or just cease communication for weeks at a time except for textkriegs and GritStorms of hostility. Then I feel resentful and want to pull back. And I think, "He's going to change again. He's going to go nuts again."

Those days were so hard, I don't want to ever go back to those feelings again.

Maybe I just need an exorcist?

The mediator gave me tips to get OWs stuff out of our bungalow. It's really a clever method that I would've never thought of on my own.

1) Find a big shopping bag and put it by the front door.
2) Pick up OW's stuff, and put it into the bag.
3) Don't say anything and just be My Sweet Nitty Self.

If Mr. Gritty asked me what I am doing, I was to say, "I'm doing what I need to do to make myself comfortable in our bungalow."

I asked the mediator what to do about the stuff I wasn't sure was OWs or not, like the candles (because I wasn't sure about their source). He said to just put whatever I had doubts about in the bag. If Mr. Gritty asked how the absence of those items could possibly make me more comfortable, I was to say, "Because I want the bungalow to be just about the two of us, and nobody else."

No more explanations than that. No controlling statements like, "Get her crap out of my bungalow!" Just the continued expression of healthy boundaries.

That felt like a great plan... the perfect way to get OW's stuff gone!

Nitty Implements The Plan!

A couple of days later I was invited to the bungalow. I got my shopping bag and put it by the door. Then I went looking for her junk food... and it was no longer in our pantry or in the refrigerator. Then I went looking for her kids' toys and games. They were gone from the closet. Everywhere I looked, the stuff that had bothered me was gone and I didn't have to do or say anything about it, like I had to about her mascara.

Except for the candles. I picked one up and asked Mr. Gritty where it came from. "The grocery store," he said. "Only 99 cents each!" That made me laugh. I believe him. Did he light them for her? I choose to let that go. After all, they had sex in our bed. I'm not going to toss the mattress, so why bother tossing the candles?

During the 4 days in between my visits to the bungalow, Mr. Gritty had finally figured out that OW's stuff had to go, and he moved it. Yay, Mr. Gritty! This is what I mean: he and I stumble along, problems come up, and then he surprises me and does something that is like The Old Mr. Gritty, Only Better.

(Of course, it wasn't too long before I began to wonder if he just tossed it, or met her to give it back to her, and maybe that was when she decided to block me! And did he really meet her in person to give her back her stuff without telling me? I wished I had thought to go through the dumpster in the back of the bungalow! Then I would know for sure that he didn't give it back to her!)

More negative EXPECTATIONS (all caps meaning expectations are NAUGHTY)

Probably the moment after I write this he'll get a bee in his bonnet again, go off the deep end again, start with the blaming again. I feel like I'm waiting.... waiting.... waiting for his recent affection toward me to disappear. Waiting for the return of the space alien monster who has been trying to deep six my a$$ for almost a year. Waiting for OW to make a last-ditch play for him again.

We have not moved back in together. I don't initiate such discussions. Occasionally he'll mention his idea that we sell the house and move away. I don't want to do that. I've been advised to not shut that idea down but let H explore it and probably discard it on his own. The holidays are coming, I'm hoping increased exposure to friends throughout the holidays will make things easier for him to come home. Our Ss are urging me to be cautious but they can see good changes in H, too.

I don't feel like he's almost home but I do feel like he is at least back on the same planet.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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I will probably re-read that post 15 times. Amazing work, Nitty.

Much love being sent your way right now!


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,646
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Nitty what you did was amazing.

Can I ask a favor of you, for you?

Stop waiting for the bad. Have a plan if it happens...but don't be waiting for it. It sort of affects most people negatively. If it happens implement your plan, but why not smell the roses and enjoy the day instead of cautiously peeking around corners and expecting there to be a bee in the rose?



Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet

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Nitty! Good to hear from you! Thank you for posting as much detail as you did. I think, when I last posted on your thread, my H was talking about starting mediation. Well, just today, he e-mailed and wrote about 'dividing assets', so I can certainly use your perspective. You're doing great! Keep it up and keep us posted. Glad to have you back!


Me 53, XH 57
M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids
BD June '13
H moved out July '13
Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14
H filed for D Nov. '14
D March '15
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 216
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Jack, thank you. I believe I'm waiting for the bad because I don't think H is "done" yet. I don't believe we are in "piecing" yet. He is coming back, slowly, yes, but he is not there yet.

I went through an extremely painful experience. It changed me. I worked on myself, changed myself for the better. A lot of good has come from this. I can see how I moved forward and he how has not. In fact, I feel like he wants me to go back to where he is right now, rather than try to catch up. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

Journaling: the Good Stuff

Got two dates this week with Mr. Gritty, but not on Friday; that's the 20th anniversary of an annual neighborhood party we've always attended together. This year I'll be going solo because he refuses to be "judged" by our neighbors. They all hope he'll come home soon, but he believes they're judging him. That's his reality so I accept it.

The Not So Great Stuff:

He took me to his office after hours, a place I haven't been in over nine months. Difficult, because that's OW's domain but she doesn't do much overtime so there was little chance of running into her. I've got to prep myself for running into her. It's going to happen eventually.

First thing I notice? All photos of me are gone from his office. Our Ss' pix are there, none of me.

I shouldn't have done this, but I tried to make a joke out of it. "I guess I lost star billing in the office, hunh!" and pointed at our Ss' pix. He knew right away what I was talking about. "Well, we were getting D! I thought we were over!"

He opened a drawer and there was the nice 5" x 7" of me. In the drawer. As we were leaving he surreptitiously put the photo back in the drawer. I didn't let on that I noticed.

I'd say he's not committed yet, at least not in front of OW or her friends or his office in general.

Mindreading? Maybe.

The Bad:

He hasn't rescheduled our MC appointment. He says he will when he has time, that he believes our just spending time together is rebuilding, that we don't need MC to get through it. Aren't we doing just fine without it? I think he believes having a series of fun dates will repair everything that's happened.

I told him I need to feel safe in our reconciliation, and him going to MC helps me feel safe. He says he gets it, that my needs are important, too, but it has to wait because he's really busy at work.

See, Jack, what I mean? He's made tremendous strides. He stopped the D that he started. I am very grateful that we can work on the M in a safer environment.

And yet there IS a bee in the rose, I can hear it buzzing. It may fly away and that would be great, but until it does I'm not going to let it sting me again.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Wow Nitty ... catching up on your Sitch.

You have made such good progress the thing that I was thinking about as I was reading is the MLC stages/tunnels ... not sure if anyone has pointed this out but IMHO your H has come out a bit .. but as predicted he is going back into the tunnel as now he is dealing with the damage he caused ( hence not wanting to face the neighbors) These things are by the book (if there is one for us who deal with the MLC). Regardless ... whatever it is you have handled this ... I admire the fact you have stood up, lovingly placed boundaries and told him .. you need MC to feel safe, I would recommend you continue to put a lid on your hurt for now, there is still a long road ahead of you but you are an inspiration to me honestly ... Keep teaching us !!!


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Nitty, your strength contually amazes me.

You are an inspiration.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
- Philippians 2:3
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Jefe, I am definitely NOT strong. I am weak. But thanks for thinking the best of me, LOL.

Originally Posted By: Caliguy
You have made such good progress the thing that I was thinking about as I was reading is the MLC stages/tunnels ... not sure if anyone has pointed this out but IMHO your H has come out a bit .. but as predicted he is going back into the tunnel as now he is dealing with the damage he caused ( hence not wanting to face the neighbors) These things are by the book (if there is one for us who deal with the MLC). Regardless ... whatever it is you have handled this ... I admire the fact you have stood up, lovingly placed boundaries and told him .. you need MC to feel safe, I would recommend you continue to put a lid on your hurt for now, there is still a long road ahead of you


Caliguy, I needed that. I focused on those words all last week. I struggled big time. It's hard to put the lid on the hurt, especially when H is reaching out. I don't want to sweep stuff under the rug, I'm afraid we'll get back together again with him thinking we've swept it under that rug and don't have to revisit it again and then it will just smolder inside me.

I don't want to be the LBS who rehashes everything constantly. I just want to clear things up and move on.

I talked with my DB coach, worked out a plan, and we've got another MC appt scheduled, so that's good.

One day at a time.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Originally Posted By: Nitty

Caliguy, I needed that. I focused on those words all last week. I struggled big time. It's hard to put the lid on the hurt, especially when H is reaching out. I don't want to sweep stuff under the rug, I'm afraid we'll get back together again with him thinking we've swept it under that rug and don't have to revisit it again and then it will just smolder inside me.

I don't want to be the LBS who rehashes everything constantly. I just want to clear things up and move on.

I talked with my DB coach, worked out a plan, and we've got another MC appt scheduled, so that's good.

One day at a time.


I can not recall where I read it .. may have been DR ... I only recall having to put a lid on it because I had this hilarious imace of that big guy holding a large happer .. softly enticing the mouse to come closer .. closer .. closer .. then WHAMM letting em have it.

I think your H .. well and WAS who did the MLC dance has to deal with a flood of emotions once the hit that stage .. the guilt of what they did, seems during MLC the memory is so bad they can nto recall where they parked .. but I know they will recall all the horrible things they did .. the damage left afterwards ... that in itself will be alot to get through without us LBS's throwing our own gasoline on the fire.

Thought behind this .... look how strong you have been to this point, look at the strength you never knew you had ... its ok to hurt .. just let it out a little at a time .. you've got this.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hey Nitty,

So I just want to point out, even though you think it's not such a good thing...your pic is not on his desk. The fact that it's in his drawer still says volumes! If he wasn't serious, your pic would be gone from the office. Look at the small things. That's what gets me through the crazy stuff with Clark. It's one of those baby steps smile

I agree with Caliguy. Don't let your hurt out. OMG all the hurt I still have inside! Even this past weekend...Clark saw a book in our closet and made the comment that he'd never seen it. I almost lost it! I gave him this book 3 years ago for valentines day. It was part of our healing from him leaving the first time...now that I'm saying this, it just hit me... I hadn't know at the time, but this was still during MLC. Wow, I was out of touch with him!

Anyways, I had to let it go. My demeanor changed and I was no longer happy and joking with Clark. He picked up on this and left the room to do some things. Nothing was said by him or me. I took my time and eventually got to that happy place. I can't control how he reacts to things, I can only control myself. I'm bummed he doesn't remember the book, but now he's seen it again and we can use it to heal this time.

It's a long road still. I'm dealing with a lot of hurt and pain daily, but I don't tell Clark. Today even! I'm mailing off some packages and one of the boxes Clark gave me has OW address on it (thanks Clark, cause I need images of you living with her, even though you say you weren't...LIAR!) now I have to go to MY happy place and move forward. He's not living with her anymore. He's home with me...positives. Find them and hold onto them!


Atsbaby
M:36 H:35
T: 19 M:12
S:11
D:9
BD: 5/4/14
Proof of OW 8/13/14-love note from her
8/19 admits OW
8/22/14 files D w/o telling me
9/20/14 Says he wants to reconcile
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"So I just want to point out, even though you think it's not such a good thing...your pic is not on his desk. The fact that it's in his drawer still says volumes! If he wasn't serious, your pic would be gone from the office. Look at the small things. That's what gets me through the crazy stuff with Clark. It's one of those baby steps"

True.The ONLY reason to keep it close is so you can look at it.


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
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Jefe & Atsbaby, I didn't think of that. Not sure if it's true, but I'll take it as a positive. The question is: when will the picture go back up on the wall. If I say so myself, it's a nice one of me. He took it and I look pretty good in it.

In the last week we've continued to work at reconciling. We meet for dinner dates, sometimes I spend the night at his place, our old bungalow. It's hard sleeping in that bed but it's getting easier.

The Good... No... The Incredibly Fantastic:

When we talk about the difficulties he is having at work that he believes are a result of his PA with OW, he no longer blames me. He takes full responsibility. Without anybody prompting him, either... it's straight from him.

I spent approximately nine months dodging convo bullets and Gritty spew about how I was the cause of all his troubles resulting from his PA, so this is HUGE.

The Weird...

The reason OW blocked me on FB may be because of what she's telling her BFF, who runs to H and tells H: that I am poisoning all the company spouses against her and she will get axed.

Nitty is not talking. And hello! A PA with H is not a "fire OW's a$$" crime. Otherwise she'd been fired long ago for all her other indiscretions with others. And so would Mr. Gritty, perhaps H would be more likely to be axed because he has the senior position. Whatever.

The Stuff That Is Not Just Weird But Also A Little Bit Psycho

OW and OW's BFF came to my town and had a very close encounter with me without me realizing it. We're talking EXTREMELY CLOSE. I know this because a friend of mine casually dropped this info into a random conversation.

And then BFF ran to H, told him she and OW saw Nitty in Nitty's neighborhood! And hid from Nitty! But both were sure Nitty saw them. BFF wanted to know: was Nitty upset?

H said exactly the right thing: that OW is never a topic of conversation between him and Nitty. Even though that's not true, LOL. But I am so very glad he told her that. Even better, H is telling me whenever there is any contact regarding OW. Transparency! Without asking for it!

But why did she come so close to me? That is very upsetting. Was it random or on purpose?

And finally, the Incredibly Awkward...

Company gatherings are coming up and I am going with my H, something I would not have believed if you told me in the last year.

BUT!

OW will be there. I need to have a picture of how I will behave. I will follow this guide. The hard part I am having is "make the effort to maintain a pleasant and open air and to engage other people in conversation -- including, or at least not pointedly excluding, the O.W. in your geniality".

Not sure I can do that without turning bright red and stammering.

Back to the Basics

H and I have nice convos, good MC sessions, and yet I'm still edgy, looking for evidence that H is gonna sprint back into that MLC tunnel.

Every day I tell myself to be open to all possibilities, stay in the moment, don't obsess about the past or the future, to trust in God and in myself, for I am a child of God.

And then I obsess. Like, why is H still friends with BFF? Or when he seems a little agitated, I feel my heart start to pound a little bit, before I calm myself down and remind myself that I am in charge of this R, and I will not settle for less than the good relationship I deserve.

I think it's going to take me some time to get through this. The good news is: WE HAVE A CHANCE. Whether or not it works out, I don't know, but we at least are giving our M a fighting chance and I am so grateful.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Nitty this is the first time I'm reading through your sitch and I have to say it gives me lots of hope! You have been amazingly strong and from the outside reading through the changes there are many positives I see in your H. I hope for you this continues in a great direction!


Me 41 H 40
M 20 T 23
S 19,16, 8 D 13
BD1 dec 2012 not sure going to work
BD2 sep 2013 seeking a D
Filed oct 2013, D Feb 2015
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Nitty, that link on what to do at a company party is absolutely great! You can do it!

There are definitely some positive changes in your H. Be patient. I would probably take the same approach. You are giving your best to give your M a chance, but you are not attached to the outcome.

I agree with daring, your post give me the hope.


M:50
H:52
S28 (my S from previous marriage)
M:17 + 3
BD: 06/12
S: 06/12 - H works in another state
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It's sounding really good!


Me 47 - W 35
M 9 - T 10
2 Daughters - 7 & 9
Discovery of EA- 8/4/14
S - 8/5/15
D mentioned - 9/11/14
R & Piecing - 3/17/15
Regard one another as more important than yourselves.
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Exceptional, Nitty. You have grown so much. Best of luck to you through the next hoop. The dreaded company function - mandatory fun at its best.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Nitty

Sometimes I have a hard time with this whole thing ... then I read your thread .. I feel better, powerful, strong ... Thank you for sharing your story, its always been inspiring to me. Keep at it .. you have this .. OW has nothing on you ... good to see your H woke up and realized that!!


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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AWOL again. I'll try to catch up. I wrote this post over a week ago but forgot to push "submit". Later I'll follow up later with something more current....

The week before last: Rocky for me, great for Mr. Gritty.

He was thoughtful and calm through stressful situations and I could see he is really trying. But he still had these weird memory issues where he's still rewriting history.

We had one bad fight that week. We were chatting and I made a suggestion about a family matter. I had no agenda, just was talking off the top of my head. But H "knew" I was poking at him. He told me to back off and the heat in his voice took me by surprise. I mean, it just came out of nowhere. I regrouped and apologized for my thoughtlessness. He spiraled into a GritStorm. (I should trademark that. GritStorm®.)

I asked for a timeout -- twenty minutes to compose myself -- H ignored the request and kept shouting at me. I practiced my deep breathing but ended up crying. Then H decided HE needed the timeout, and I got angry. I said, "Oh, I can ask for a timeout, which you ignore, and now you want one and I'm supposed to comply?"

New Rule

We talked about this fight during MC. The next time one of us asks for a timeout we are to specify an exact amount of time and use a timer if we need to, in order to keep our word about coming back to the discussion. If the other doesn't comply with the timeout, the asker is to walk out of the room but come back within the specified time.

I'm still having a hard time not asking questions about the PA and it's been weighing on me. I feel like we're just forgetting everything that happened and are playing at dating. I want more details about the PA. I want to know if I know the other OWs that he dated. They are like little ticking time bombs to me. I had a session by myself with the MC and he asked me why I wanted to know, if it would do me any good. I couldn't answer except it is a strong urge. The MC encouraged me to let it go, to stop thinking about it.

Overall Mr. Gritty seems really happy. When he describes our week to the MC, he'll always say it is our best week yet. That we are really coming together as a couple again. He never sees our arguments as bad as I see them. That seems right, considering I'm the conflict avoidant in our relationship.

All about Mr. Gritty's Memory Issue Syndrome

Mr. Gritty's version of why he decided to D me keeps changing. It's like a temperature check, hearing the different reasons he comes up with.

During our last MC I asked Mr. Gritty why he changed his mind about D, and he announced: "I felt like I wanted a D, but felt it would be better to spend time on it and make sure. But then I saw that dragging it out was hurting you too much. So I initiated D out of compassion for you. It was the compassionate thing to do."

Normally I let stuff like this slide, but since we were in the MC office, I asked him if he remembered the reasons he listed the afternoon he initiated D: when he told me I was a poisonous, vindictive and bitter woman, that I could never forgive because it isn't in my nature, that I had been rubbing his nose in sh!t and would forever do so, that I was trying to get him fired, etc.

Mr. Gritty insisted he never said any of that stuff. He started a spiral into another GritStorm&reg and the MC raised his hands so we both stopped right there. I didn't even mention the texts he sent me that evening (still on my phone) after he initiated D, when he told me how I had "pushed" him into it... maybe I needed him to D me and he was clueless as to why -- I didn't even mention those texts.

The MC once again reminded us we have dysfunctional communication habits. The rest of our session was reworking strategies to communicate better doing heated exchanges. Our assignment was to continue to save "the difficult conversations" for the MC office.

Going off the deep end

After that session I became more agitated. I decided H was still in contact with OW. I decided that was the reason OW was acting up. I started collecting statements he made that didn't add up. For example, he mentioned twice running into OW and how she appeared to be "angry" with him. How she was acting all out of proportion to the situation. How he used the phrase "vindictive, poisonous and bitter", a phrase he often used to describe me during our separation.

I thought... maybe he broke it off with her again? Which would mean... that he had been on with her again, maybe the reason why he initiated D? Maybe that's why she blocked me on FB after he broke it off? Because he finally broke it off?

...

This is the kind of stuff I made myself crazy with the week before last. I felt like I did when he was gaslighting me after the BD, just before he left me, like I didn't have the full story.

Before the 2" x 4"s come, I know, I know! I lost all detachment! I was creating expectations! I was so focused on him... I admit I was lost. I had no direction, no perspective.

The Flashbacks Continued

November last year, I knew something was wrong with H and I was desperately worried about him. I didn't know it but his PA had been in full swing and he was busy convincing OW that he couldn't wait to leave me and move in with her.

He was constantly jumping all over me, accusing me of lying to him, of hiding things, of being a freeloader, of not pulling my weight financially and spending the money he worked so hard to earn.

He would insist he "knew" what was in my heart. "Yeah, Nitty, well, what you say is different from what you do, and what you do says 'F--- Y--.' Yeah! I know exactly what you're doing and I'm not gonna put up with it!" Stuff like this would of course would fill me with dread, because, no! That was not in my heart!

And yet I still thought I had everything covered. I believed he was having medical issues, like an impending heart attack or stroke. I was supportive. When he shouted at me, I would reach out to him, tell him I loved him, ask him what I could do to make his life easier. I didn't ask questions.

As I prepared for turkey day, all these memories flood into me. When I ordered the turkey, I remember how stressed I was last year when I ordered it, because he yelled at me all morning that day. Or when I looked over the upcoming December calendar, I remembered how glum I was, believing that he might be in the hospital with a heart attack before Christmas, not knowing it was because of his MLC and OW. These flashbacks made me feel so sad and resentful because my life? IT WAS A LIE.

The anniversary of BD is looming. It became my big goal to get through it without any drama.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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My fears that Mr. Gritty would "flip" into an anti-Nitty posture seemed to be validated on Thanksgiving Day.

He's been acting more like he did when he courted me. No love letters, but he brings me flowers. For the holiday we were going to have the entire family over for Thanksgiving at our bungalow. (If you'd told me at any time during this year that I'd be doing this with H, I would've been so incredulous but extremely relieved. That's how I felt on Thanksgiving Day: relieved.)

Mr. Gritty Fulfills Nitty's Negative Expectations (which is why she shouldn't have expectations)

As the day wore on, though, Mr. Gritty began to be irritable with me. At first, I figured he was just tired. At one point he snapped at me when I tried to help him clean up, told me that I just couldn't help myself being so damn annoying. I stayed out of his way after that, acting like everything was okay until our guests left.

As we waved the last guest off, I rested my hand on his shoulder and Mr. Gritty flinched my hand off. I asked, "What is it? What is wrong?"

"I don't know! It's all me. It's not you. I need to work it out."

EXACTLY what he would tell me last fall, just before the BD, when he would get snippy with me. The statement, "It's all me, it's not you" was like a mantra for him, and now I was hearing it again.

I would've gone home except it was so very late. As I hesitated he seemed to soften a bit, so I got ready for bed. Then when we climbed in to bed he rolled as far over on his side as he could, like he was determined not to touch me. I reached over once to touch his back and he flinched again, like my touch was disgusting.

It was a terrible night. I resolutely told myself over and over again: It's over. He's turned again. I will be okay. If he tells me he wants me out of the bungalow I will go. If he restarts the D, I will accept it. I will not be decimated like I was when he left me the first time. I am stronger now. But what set him off? Did he get a text message from OW?

Etc. Like I said, it was an awful night. At dawn I said, "Are you mad at me for something I've done?"

Nitty Gets Dumped Into the Twilight Zone

He blew up! To summarize: he saw a text on my phone early the day before, from an old friend of ours, and then he saw me read my texts and laugh, and he believed I was having a PA with that old friend.

I couldn't believe it, it was as if I was living last fall all over again, when he accused me of lying to him, of having a PA with some unknown man and other crazy stuff, all because he was having a PA himself and had to justify to himself what he was doing by making me out to be an awful wife.

He was so very cold in his anger. "Tell me the truth about what you are doing with _____!"

I told him I didn't owe him any explanations, but I would tell him anyway: I'd sent "Happy Thanksgiving" to our friends that morning, and he was one of the many who responded. I actually had over a dozen responses by text. I was only laughing because my co-worker responded with a funny comic.

"I don't believe you. You KNOW that ______ has been after you for years! You even agreed with me about it."

"I never did any such thing! You're making that up!"

"Yes, you did, and you're talking to him now, you're encouraging him!"

We went back and forth, him repeating his accusations and me repeating my protests. Finally I realized I was flooding and defensive. I asked for a timeout. He argued a bit before remembering our agreement with the MC and walked out. I thought, "Is this what my life will be like? Will his guilt cause him to attack me like this at random?"

Major rollercoastering going on

Ten minutes later he came back and just stood there. Then Mr. Gritty started talking as if he was talking to himself. It was very strange.

"Okay, so I left you. You started making relationships with others that didn't include me. Which was your right. Because I left you." "That is correct," I said. "I was alone and I began to create relationships that don't involve you. I began a life without you."

"And I have no right to ask you about those relationships." "That's right," I said, totally amazed. "You have no right. I living my life with out you because you wanted it that way."

"And if I had just asked you about the text I saw on your phone instead of stewing about it all day then we wouldn't have had such an awful night." "That's right," I said, "because I have always made it clear I am not interested in any relationship but this one."

"You have made it clear, but I forgot that. And because I forgot that, we had a terrible night. I am very sorry. I acted so stupid."

I was shocked. In all our years together we have never ended an argument this way. Usually he yelled and went off to work or to bed and then acted like nothing ever happened. But now it was as if he was possessed by a space alien again--only this time it was a perfectly reasonable and gentlemanly space alien.

After that, he made extra efforts to be nice to me. We had a nice weekend together. He came to our house and spent the night there for the first time in almost a year. Part of the time I was apprehensive, waiting for another series of accusations set off by who knows what.

But the rest of the time I was more hopeful than I've been since he first asked for a reconciliation, because he actually worked out his anger! If he continued to work on himself like this, we would definitely have a better relationship than we had before!

So, to sum up, here is the good:

  • He's talking about taking a vacation together
  • He cares about our dog again.
  • We are having fun dates together where we do some of my GAL activities.

And here is the not-so-good:
  • We are not living together (he doesn't want to come home yet)
  • Our money is still separated (although he's announced it's okay to spend joint funds on dates)
  • I am still not invited back to certain places I used to spend all the time (like the private gym where he has a membership)
  • And mostly, I drive to the bungalow. If I tell him I have a prior engagement and can't come over when he calls me, he acts pouty.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Hey, Nitty. I have been out of pocket, and, frankly, trying to get my own crud together. I've hit another snag, though, so here I am. Your thread remains encouraging. The steps back seem temporary, indicative of old patterns. The steps forward are fresh. And real.

Take care of yourself, girl.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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December Review

Still hanging in there. He's been very attentive. We ML frequently. He tells me he loves me. One week ago he told me he was grateful that we are together, that whenever he thinks of how close we came to D, how we would be apart this holiday... I didn't say anything but gave him a hug. What I wanted to say: Yes! You almost D me! You really hurt me!" But I didn't say anything like that.

I went to our MC privately and told him that now he's had a chance to work with us for a couple of months, that I wanted him to give it to me straight: what is the most important thing I need to do right away to improve our marriage?

The MC told me that I need to stay in the present moment in all conversations with Mr. Gritty. He said that I typically qualify everything with a reference to the past or a wish for certain behavior in the future. He quoted a couple of examples of things I'd said in MC, things which I thought were positives, but which apparently were only taken as jibes at Mr. Gritty.

An example of this is something I said during our last MC session, which the MC had written down:

Quote:
Mr. Gritty stayed really calm last week when that guy in the grocery store parking lot yelled at him for parking too close to his car. Mr. Gritty in MLC would've torn that guy a new one and then been pissed off all day. But this Mr. Gritty just shrugged it off and let it go!


You see, I thought the above statement was a compliment, because it showed the world how far H has come and how I was aware of (and grateful for) H's improvement. But the MC says all Mr. Gritty hears is the bad stuff. That it's kind of a back-handed compliment. Like, "I'm so glad you stopped beating me like you used to."

OK. This is the kind of tip I need to know. I believe I can always improve myself and this is the stuff that will help me improve.

Meanwhile: Our Status So Far:

Money still separated
Still living apart

Deep in my heart I worry that he is still keeping our money separate so that in case he decides to go through with the D, he can prove that I can get along with less. The financial people told me the allowance he is giving me is a little over half of what he should be giving me, and that if I live like this for over a year that Mr. Gritty could make the case during a D that I don't need that much alimony.

Back then I talked to an attorney about it and he said it was possible, but we could fight him on it, so I'm not worried about the alimony. I am, however, worried about Mr. Gritty's commitment level.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Christmas Day: Mr. Gritty Passes Some Tests

Our sons have been cautious about the R but glad to see the changes in their dad. During his MLC, Mr. Gritty was agitated all the time, easily angered, a real hothead with all of us. S2 lives at home and took the brunt of that anger, as H would spew it at both of us. He's been the more suspicious S, the one who has expressed concern about Mr. Gritty's changes being lasting ones.

So S2 told me this morning that he now believes his dad is truly "out of his coma" and is back to being "Real Dad" and he knows this because his dad passed two tests on Christmas.

Test No. 1

The first test was an accidental one: on Christmas Eve S2 accidentally dropped a pot of a hot beverage and it splattered everywhere, including all over me and Mr. Gritty. If this had happened last year, Mr. Gritty would've blown up and the evening would've been ruined, because he would be angry and shouting. (He wasn't like this during our marriage, just during MLC.) When S dropped the pot, I could see his face go pale and I knew what he was expecting because I expected it too. Both of us waited for the explosion.

But Mr. Gritty didn't explode, just kind of laughed and said, "oh, well!" We cleaned it up and nothing more was said. S told me that couldn't believe how "in stride" Mr. Gritty took that dropped pot. "That is huge, Mom. HUGE." I agreed with him.

Test No. 2

As Mr. Gritty unwrapped his present from S2 I instantly recognized the item... it was the same gift S2 gave his dad last year! This turned out to be S2's planned test.

Last year Mr. Gritty opened this gift, he grimaced when he saw what it was and tossed it on the table, said "thanks" to S and moved to the next gift. It was an embarrassing moment for all of us. Both S1 and S2 came to me privately to discuss this behavior with me, as it was so unlike their dad. I did not tell them that we were in the middle of a crisis and that their dad was in love with another woman. (I didn't understand MLC at that point.) So I told them he was very stressed with his job.

Anyway. Mr. Gritty never picked up the gift after that. He left it on the coffee table for weeks and when he moved out at the end of January, he left the gift behind with his wife and dog. At that point S told me that since his dad "hated" the gift, he was going to take it back.

So there it was again, the same gift, being unwrapped again by Mr. Gritty. I glanced at S who winked at me. Neither of us said anything. Mr. Gritty oohed and ahhed over this gift, really paying attention to it, telling S that he wanted to use it "right now!" And he did. He obviously did not recognize the gift from last year. He obviously appreciated this gift. S and I looked at each other and S nodded approvingly.

This morning S2 told me, "Dad was so checked out last year, Mom, he didn't even recognize the gift! But not this year. Not with me anyway. He may or may not like what I gave him, but he made an effort to show me how much he appreciates what I got him. That's the Old Dad I know and love. He seems good with you, too. It's your business, you've got to feel right about it, but I just wanted you to know I'm feeling good about you reconciling with him now, too."


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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What Nitty Did Not Tell S in Return

I thanked S for that confidence, agreed that yes, Dad has come a long way in a year. What I did not tell S was that I was feeling unsettled because Mr Gritty didn't give me a single thing for Christmas. Not even a card.

When we opened presents H said he loved his gifts from me, really loved them. But... there was nothing from Mr. Gritty to me. He didn't say anything, either, like, "sorry I didn't get you anything..." so I waited all day for something to arrive, or for him to pull out a card or a box or whatever.

Finally I asked him if there was a card for me somewhere. I know I shouldn't have done that but I literally could not keep my mouth from opening up and asking: "By the way, honey, did you get me a card?"

His demeanor changed immediately and I could tell he felt bad. "You said you didn't want anything!" True, that's what I said. I say that every year. But this year, what should I have said? "Get me something good to make up for all the bad times!"? Besides, I hate asking for presents.

He asked me if I thought he messed up, if I thought he was bad. I told him no, but he was clueless, that a love letter would've been the perfect gift, even just a card would've been great, especially after all the two of us had been through this year. He apologized.

Then I told him I feared I was like wallpaper, always there, super dependable, easy to overlook. I was not angry, we weren't fighting, there was no heat in our discussion, just discomfort. He was more uncomfortable than I was. I felt so flat. Later I realized the flatness was just being sad. I feel sad. I feel like, wow. Not even a card?

I realize I'm attributing expectations to his behavior. Yeah. That is what I am doing. And for all of me being so "I don't like asking for presents," I'm kind of surprised that this hurts so much. Presents don't mean anything. If he wrote me a letter, it would've been perfect. It's just that he didn't do anything at all. Nothing.

I read stories like Caliguy's, Shakspear's, HopeTex's, etc., and I know I am lucky to be in R with Mr. Gritty. But I feel like I have no roadmap, no idea of what is "correct" or not.

What does that mean, not even a card? Does it mean anything? I'm already planning on little fibs for when family and friends ask me what H got me for Christmas. I can't tell anybody he got me absolutely nothing. I can't tell our Ss, either. I know this much: not getting me anything for Christmas, not even a card... they'll think that is bad.

So I guess I know that much if I'm willing to lie about it.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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Originally Posted By: Nitty


I read stories like Caliguy's, Shakspear's, HopeTex's, etc., and I know I am lucky to be in R with Mr. Gritty. But I feel like I have no roadmap, no idea of what is "correct" or not.

What does that mean, not even a card? Does it mean anything? I'm already planning on little fibs for when family and friends ask me what H got me for Christmas. I can't tell anybody he got me absolutely nothing. I can't tell our Ss, either. I know this much: not getting me anything for Christmas, not even a card... they'll think that is bad.


Ok I cringed and then laughed that I made this list ...

Nitty I too have always been one to go above and beyond for Christmas ... every single year. I got her an ipad last year, a nice sweater and a pandora bracelet the year prior to that, pearls the year before that .... and ya know what I got all 3 of those years ... socks ... yup .. socks. (This year ironically I received a self improvement book .... oh the irony)

In a way you are expecting Gritty to mindread ... but yeah .. he should have done something, not sure if he could muster a letter to make up for the past year, but I think we all sit waiting for that time when the MLC'r drops to their knees and broadcasts their love and remorse ... but honestly .. I do not ever see that happening ...I think Gritty is still in a MLC hangover ... he is a touch foggy and still trying to figure it all out.

Look at it this way .. he is on the path back to you ... many of us would take that gift any day ... he can make it up to you for the rest of his life if you focus on the big picture.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Hang in there Nitty!


Me:42 W:41
M:12 T:3
D7, D7, S5
Sep#1 Winter 2012 for 4 months
W divorce bomb 6/9/14
Started "in-house separation" 7/2014
W files for D 8/28/14
I move out 9/27/14
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...and you thought I'd stop paying attention...

BTW checked out for a while because GAL = broken collarbone = surgery

Skiing is still a blast!

For Christmas this year I got a cool coffee mug from D22 and cash from my Mom.

But I had my kids and Christ. That's all I really need on that day, now.


Me: 43 XW: 43
T15 M14
D21, SS15, S11, D8
BD: 8/6
EA / possible PA discovered 9/29
D final 10/20
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Hello Nitty. Would you be interested to give us another update? It's been over a month.

I found your Christmas gift story to be interesting. It reminded me a lot of the "covert contracts" in No More Mr. Nice Guy. This book encourages everyone (especially nice guys...) to learn to have their needs fulfilled. You say "Don't give me anything", but you mean "Surprise me!" You give gifts, but you actually expect some in returns. If you want a love letter, just say so. I know next to nothing about your sitch, but from this little glimpse, it sounds like there's tremendous potential to improve your R by learning to state your needs. We men can be clueless without meaning to be hurtful.

Good luck.


M39 D6 D3 (at S)
S 2014-09
D 2016-09

"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
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Thanks for everybody's support and encouragement!

My new thread is here.


M:54, H:55
T:33, M:27
12/13 BD: EA
01/14 BD: PA, H leaves
03/14 H & OW break up
05/14 H says he will file for D
08/14 H initiates D
09/14 H wants to R
12/14 Still bungling our way through R
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