Hi Bart, yeah earlier in my separation my W pulled the same crazy thing of telling me she "loved" me, while also being on the dating sites. I got so frustrated, I forbade her from saying that she loved me, and I would send her definitions of what love reallyyyy means, being in our actions toward the other person. I did get her stop telling me that she loved me though. Fat lotta good that's done me. Keep your chin and emotions up.
Thanks Starsky for the 2x4 and wet for the encouraging words. I re-read chunks of DB on the flight today, and what keeps hitting me right now is MWD's comments around both me needing patience and how 1 month of change for every 1 year of marriage is a decent yardstick. I guess I'm just not ready to demand separation or go dark at this point because if it fails I'll feel I jumped the gun ( and I say this knowing full well after reading the other threads here that most successful DBs will say they waited too long and we're too timid!)- I'm just not there yet.
So, if I can't pull the trigger on going dark, that leaves me DBing and GAL- so business as usual. Some small part of me wants to see the good in the dating site profile- she did it on her home email account, not work, and she left it there in her open email box for me to see (I did this to her about a month ago by deliberately leaving apartment sites open on the computer). Besides, unless she's looking for a harem, that may at least mean she doesn't see OM as her future.
I know I'm not facing up to the likely scenario, but with limited options I'm choosing to soldier on. At least I squelched the urge to call her when I landed and say how much I enjoyed our talk this am.
Ps- Starsky, following your switch in mdu's thread- thoughts and prayers to you and the mrs right now.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
Bart, please, please, please listen to the vets on this. NO SNOOPING! Don't look at her dating profile, it will only hurt you. Be strong on this, I am a voice of experience on this - the irreversible I have at my snooping never goes away.
Thanks wet- I read a comment by one of the vets in another thread to the effect that whatever she is doing now is no worse than what she's already done, so there's no need to snoop. That's enough to prevent me from snooping so far. I am however wondering if the dating site thing is her reaction to me GALing, but that would be mind reading so I'm trying not too much to think about that either. I just can't wrap my head around pleasant, nice enjoyable times together and her actions. Even if she's written us off in her mind why not just pull the trigger and ask for the D? Don't get the point of this, but I'm not sure she does, either.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
I think Starsky's advice is going to get you the most traction here. He's succeeded. That's saying alot.
I did not save my marriage. All I can do is share my mistakes.
Couple of things re: snooping.
Your wife has demonstrated herself to lie and even try to do so in the face of clear evidence. She's done this repeatedly. So actually believing anything she says (that the affair ended) is pretty foolish. The ONLY way you're going to know she's ended it is by snooping. Sorry, dude.
The point that snooping only upsets you is partially true. It will drive you nuts. But, on the other hand, she can't be trusted at this point to tell the truth.
Regarding the dating site. Quite simple: She's interested in dating other men. She's cheating on you know, and she's taking steps to continue cheating on you. Or, she can just be curious to see if she can do better than the OM. She's not playing mind games -- she's pretty openly narcissistic at this point.
Re: the pleasant times together. My ex was sleeping with me and the OM (when I didn't know they were having an affair). She enjoyed stability with me and the romance with the OM. She was waiting for OM to leave his wife so that she could divorce me and run off with him. In the meantime, she was quite happy to have 2 men in her life. Cake-eating.
I have a question: On the socio-economic scale (income/job/status). Where do you, your wife and the OM stand? I sounds like she makes more money than the OM.
Look. She knows you know and is still trying to lie to you. At some point you are going to need a plan. You can't sit in limbo trying to "get-a-life" and out-nice the OM forever.
Even in classic divorce-busting there is the LRT, After the Last Resort Technique and Ultimatums.
My concern is you will drag this on too long and she'll lose attraction for you. Make a plan and stick with it. With a time-frame. I think Starsky can help.
Also for a completely different (and humorous) take on infidelity -- visit the site Chump Lady.
Thanks for the whack on the head. So I've got a WAW who has written off our marriage. Learning something new each day- I know I've been slow to follow the advice here, but I'd be grateful if you all could please help me get back on track and understand my options.
To answer your Q, OM is a 30 year old numnutz with little financial future- he is a party boy. W makes six figures a year- she doesn't need him financially.
So back to me:
A going on for almost a year; known to me for 3.5 months During 3.5 months I fix much of what W saw wrong with me, but she notices, but is too far gone to care. Even though I fix historical shortcomings, I still plead, mope and cry for a solid 3 months of this time. W continues to disrespect me and our marriage- she has no problem continuing A and lying. I only GAL and DB starting two weeks ago. I don't want to separate, I want to keep the family together and save my marriage.
So what are my options? Telling her to stop it useless. Moving out myself is unacceptable for the picture it paints to my children. Telling her "stop it or move out" will result in status quo. Everyone says going dark is very hard with kids.
So what do I do? How the #%^* can I set a boundary where the threat isn't me moving out or filing for a D I don't want? Seems my only option starsky's original advice of the After the LR technique? Any modifications suggested given the history I've posted? Seems I've got to say "I told you I wanted to save our marriage but was unable to do that with OM in the picture. I gave you the time you asked for to think. You used it to sign up for a dating service so I have your answer. I suggest you get a lawyer as mine will be contacting you." Is this really my only hope??????
Last edited by Bart42; 09/15/1410:01 PM.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
So spent the evening re-reading DB and I can see how filing for D/pushing separation seems my only remaining option to hopefully wake her up- problem is DR consels against this unless you are truly ready- and I am not ready for a D. I guess that leaves me as supporting cake eating for a little wile longer until I either get up the courage to end it, she does, or she magically comes out of this fog (little chance, I know). Right now my mindset is "every day we're together is another day to try and tear down that wall and have her maybe see the new you is the real you."
Can't stand how pathetic I've become but just don't have the courage to end this and call it quits on my marriage and a life with my kids.
Me: 45 W:43 M: 15, T:21 2 Kids- S-14, D-12 A Started: 10/2013 Discovered as EA: 6/2014, as PA: 7/2014 A changing, not ending Start DB'ing 9/2014 Same house, same bed
Bart, I've been where you are so I understand your frustration. It's hard to set the boundary of 'work on the R or I file' if you're not ready. It took me mos of being in the dark about W's A (or maybe just keeping my eyes shut) until I was ready to lay down that option.
I can say that 6 mos ago, when I first discovered evidence that it was more than a friendship, I told W that as long as she was in a R with OM, I didn't think she should stay at the house and as long as she was friends with him, we wouldn't be friends. That did lead to her moving out, but I also think the relationship with OM heated up. I also did a lot of waffling on being friends with W too, which probably didn't help.
I wish I would have taken a stand earlier on, but I wasn't 'ready'. Keep GAL-ing and spend time evaluating your options and what you can/can't live with. I truly believe the earlier you take a stand, the better chance you have of saving your M.
1. Take care of yourself -- surround yourself with friends and family.
2. Take up a hobby/activity that gets you our of your own head -- rock climbing, martial arts, yoga, boxing, etc. This will give your mind time to rest. they force you to intensely focus.
3. Accept that, for the moment, your're wife is in a fog. She'll lie, cheat and steal. She can't be reasoned with. She may or may no snap out of her fog. When you're ready she can be made to feel the consequences of her actions. That may or may not work. Right now she's not feeling the consequences for her actions, eventually she will. All in good time. What you are focusing on now is getting your game back.
4. Realize you have time on your side. IF you take too long, you'll be worn down. But for now take a break from the drama. Regather your resources and prepare for battle!
5. DO NOT move out of your own home. This may affect custody issues in the future if things go south.
6. See a competent family law attorney. This doesn't mean you are getting a divorce. But it does mean you need to know your rights and learn how to protect your situation.
7. As an exercise, ask yourself if the marriage went south, what would YOU want? Custody of the children? The house? Shared custody? 50/50? This way, if she decides to pull the plug on the marriage then, at least, you know what you want and are prepared to get it. Don't getting dragged kicking and screaming into a divorce. You may win back your wife or you may not. You need to realize that if the worse comes to pass, you'll survive. What's most paralyzing now is your fear of losing your family. The worst case scenario is your children live in a broken home and you stop being married to a cheater and pathological liar. Divorce is bad for children -- all the studies show it. However what's worse is you remaining in an abusive marriage where you are cuckolded and psychologically emasculated daily. Your health with collapse if you put up with it long term. I thought a divorce was a death sentence -- but it's not. The best case scenario is your restore your marriage, the next best case is your divorce with dignity and rebuild a life for yourself. The worst case if you keep your head in the sand, get emotionally and physically sick, and eventually get dragged into a financial ruinous divorce and remain bitter for years. Think of options, A, B and C. Work on the fear and your actions will seem less reactive and tenuous. Stop walking on eggshells. Right now, you are acting like you are a footnote in your wife's life. In a healthy relationship, you are co-stars in the play. For now, your wife needs to be the footnote in YOUR life - that's necessary for your well-being. LIVE YOUR LIFE.
8. Stop chasing, begging and pleading for your marriage. Be strong, competent and mysterious. Until you are ready for more serious action, don't talk about the affair with her. Just be honest when she lies to you. You have to decide if the Last Resort Technique is appropriate now. Sounds like it may be. It's really for your own sanity.
9. You may want to stop snooping on a daily basis for your own mental health. But, perhaps once a week, you may want to gather evidence of the affair and keep yourself informed. Again, she's a pathological liar right now.
10. Take some steps to protect your assets. This is one way to remind her you know what's going on.
11. Go to the website: Chump Lady. She advocates a "choose now, me or him" take no prisoners approach to reconciliation. If you take that with a grain of salt, her other advice is helpful about taking care of yourself and protecting your assets. It's also funny AND will help you channel your anger/pain into constructive action.
So spent the evening re-reading DB and I can see how filing for D/pushing separation seems my only remaining option to hopefully wake her up- problem is DR consels against this unless you are truly ready- and I am not ready for a D. I guess that leaves me as supporting cake eating for a little wile longer until I either get up the courage to end it, she does, or she magically comes out of this fog (little chance, I know).
In my experience (10 years, 25,000 posts as three different usernames on this message forum alone) this approach has three basic, but very serious problems with it:
1. Staying in limbo and allowing the affair to continue to go on basically right in front of you will sap your strength, kill your self-esteem and emasculate you. This will in turn make you a less emotionally-healthy partner for a possible future relationship.
2. Your wife -- seeing that you are allowing it -- will lose respect (and therefore, attraction and ultimately LOVE) for you.
3. If her OM1 affair does end up imploding (most likely by her OM1 dumping her), women in your type of situation almost always turn to an OM2. Then it's "Lather, Rinse, Repeat" time.
Trust me, there is NOTHING good about Limbo. Can you handle a week of this, or even a month? Sure. You never HAVE to do anything TODAY. But Limbo is a path of wretched pain and further family emotional and financial destruction if it goes on for any length of time, in my experience and observation.
