Can I get her back??..

[LoveMyW]

Hey guys and girls!!.. First time poster with a bit of an issue I'm hoping you friendly people can help with..

Like a lot of other men, I have come here to seek a bit of direction on what I should do in regard to reconciling with my wife, or if it is even possible.. We are currently separated.. We have been together for 10 years, married for 7, and have 2 beautiful children aged 6 and 8.. I am 35, she is 31..

Around 12 weeks ago now, I copped the "love you, but not in love with you" hammer to the heart.. We all know the feelings involved with that, so I won't bore anyone by delving in to it!!.. We lived under the same roof (same bed etc) for the first 5 weeks, but 7 weeks ago she moved out to a place of her own in a different state.. There is a legitimate reason behind the move as we recently moved to a different state which neither of us have any family, and she moved to be back closer to her family.. I understand this..

We spoke at length about the reasons for our separation, and the not in love feeling, and it was mainly due to me being disrespectful within the relationship due to inappropriate name calling, and not fully being appreciative overall.. I have also been a bit intimidating at times during arguments (nothing physical, just yelling etc).. I will not argue against any of these points as, looking back, they are completely true.. Please be assured, there was NEVER any physical abuse that happened within the relationship/marriage at all.. I can be intimidating at times when I get worked up, and I realise this and have been undergoing counselling since my W left to get the issues sorted once and for all..

The decision to separate came as a shock to me (as happens to most men/women in this situation), and from what my wife has said, it has been brewing for the last 6-12 months inside her.. Whilst I don't agree with the decision to separate (nobody does!!), I am accepting my wifes decision, and not arguing against her as it will only made matters worse..

Now, keeping in mind she and the kids have been gone for the weeks, I spent the first week or 2 grovelling, begging and generally being annoying trying to get her to change her mind.. The last few weeks, I have found a bit of inner peace between the hurt, and have backed off with the tactics which will only push her away further.. Admittedly, I have slipped up slightly a couple of times though during the down days when I have spoken to her..

During the separation so far, we have both been amicable and are having no arguments.. I talk to the kids either via Skype or phone call every second day (my choice, there is no restriction).. My wife and I did talk almost daily basis either through text, phone or Facebook messages, but I have started the process of the 180 roughly 3 weeks ago, and am having LC instead of NC due to kids involved..

When I have spoken to my wife about us, she mentions that she doesn't miss me, that she is happy with the way things are, and her feelings haven't changed.. She mentions that I should move on, and is no longer wearing her ring on her finger, but on a necklace.. Given that it is only 7 weeks in, is this her "honeymoon phase" of separation??.. She does still care for my feelings though, and tries to make sure I am ok..

I can assure everyone that there is no other parties involved from either side.. I have been through this on another forum, and all avenues have been exhausted regarding finding evidence of OM, with no proof whatsoever.. I will be moving to the same state to be closer to the kids in the very near future, and initially will be getting a place of my own.. We have mutually agreed that this is a good decision, and she welcomes the decision with "open arms"..

My wife is a very strong woman, and is a hard nut to crack!!.. This is one thing that makes me think that what is being shown on the outer, is not what the inside is thinking.. The communication between us at the moment is good (albeit LC)..

She changed her Facebook status to single, and this hasn't been a shock to me as we have always said if we split etc, there will be none of this "It's complicated, separated or divorced".. It's either married or single, and I'm cool with that.. In doing this I am no longer on her Facebook family list BUT she hasn't removed any of my family from that list, and they are all still in-laws..

Funny enough too, all of our wedding pics and pics of us together are now public so I haven't fully been pushed out!!..

Given the information above, would you think that there is a chance of winning her back??.. If so, how should I go about it??..

Thanks in advance for any advice..

[sandi2]

Welcome aboard. Apparently you were not satisfied with the advice received from the other forum, or maybe didn't agree? I will cut to the chase here and tell you that even though you have found no evidence, she is showing signs of a young woman who wants to announce her single status. She is in a hurry and doing it publicly. So one has to ask....why?

Most women desire to be in a relationship most of their lifetime. You can observe them leaving one R to immediately go to another. They will have OM waiting in the wings while she's getting out of her M.

If she is not involved with another man, then she either wants to free herself up b/c she has her sights on somebody........or she wants to prowl. The single life is glamorize by Holywood, magazines, etc. Most of all, it is glamorized in her own fantasy. So right now, she just wants her freedom to start that lifestyle.

Is it possible to win her back? There are no garantees, but yes, it is possible. It won't be easy and it sure won't be quickly. A lot of men can't go the distance b/c it is a very long and hard road to travel. All you have to do is read the accounts from others here on the board.

First thing is to read the book Divorce Remedy b/c this board uses the principles taught in that book.

You will get more how to information as the posts start coming. Can't give it all at once, but I will tell you not to pursue. Back away and leave her alone. DBing is going to seem very strange to what your emotions are telling you.

Post every day and you will get more replies.

[LoveMyW]

Welcome aboard. Apparently you were not satisfied with the advice received from the other forum, or maybe didn't agree? I will cut to the chase here and tell you that even though you have found no evidence, she is showing signs of a young woman who wants to announce her single status. She is in a hurry and doing it publicly. So one has to ask....why?

Most women desire to be in a relationship most of their lifetime. You can observe them leaving one R to immediately go to another. They will have OM waiting in the wings while she's getting out of her M.

If she is not involved with another man, then she either wants to free herself up b/c she has her sights on somebody........or she wants to prowl. The single life is glamorize by Holywood, magazines, etc. Most of all, it is glamorized in her own fantasy. So right now, she just wants her freedom to start that lifestyle.

Is it possible to win her back? There are no garantees, but yes, it is possible. It won't be easy and it sure won't be quickly. A lot of men can't go the distance b/c it is a very long and hard road to travel. All you have to do is read the accounts from others here on the board.

First thing is to read the book Divorce Remedy b/c this board uses the principles taught in that book.

You will get more how to information as the posts start coming. Can't give it all at once, but I will tell you not to pursue. Back away and leave her alone. DBing is going to seem very strange to what your emotions are telling you.

Post every day and you will get more replies.

Thank you for the reply Sandi.. It wasn't that I wasn't happy with the advice elsewhere, or the fact I didn't agree.. The reason I have decided to post here is because this forum seems a lot better place with R "problem solving" than others..

The R status change on FB only came very recently, and although quick in the scheme of things, it isn't displayed publicly.. I only know because she told me.. When looking, it only has "no information to show"..

I do agree that the situation looks like getting ready to prowl etc, but I have seen no outward signs of that, and neither has anyone in the know.. Like I said, I do agree though, and my eyes are open to the fact..

I am in it for the long haul, as this woman is the girl of my dreams.. The distance and separation has only made me realise this more, and admittedly, I am at fault for pushing her love away, although she has had flaws in the marriage/separation as well, so I know I am not 100% to blame, and I have stopped beating myself up over it..

I will get my hands on DR ASAP.. I have stopped pursuing, and I have backed off.. I am also giving her space as well.. After my initial "beg, plead, cry" stage I have implemented LC and taken on board what I have read on this forum and it has helped..

Thank you once again for your reply..

[LoveMyW]

I've really got to start realising that this journey is going to be a marathon, not a sprint to get my wife back..

Twice now I've felt the attitude from her getting warmer toward me, and twice I have said not so much stupid things, but have jumped the gun on what I SHOULD be doing..

Today, I was having a informal chat on the phone with her after talking to the kids which was a nice warm conversation, and she asked if I could spare some extra money for delivery of a new bunk for the kids room.. I obliged this request as it had to do with the kids, and I paid directly to the furniture place over the phone, so I knew it just wasn't there for play money..

Anyway, the chat was almost like old times, and when she asked me when I wanted the money back my reply was "We'll work something out".. I'm not too stressed on getting it back (not a big amount anyway) and it was for the kids.. Her reply to this was "No, not what you are thinking either".. Well silly old confident me (yeah the confidence of old is coming back in spurts!!) said "I wouldn't have to pay you as you will only come and have your way with me anyway"..

I won't say it put a dampener on the convo, and she got a good chuckle out of it, but I have to tone down the enthusiasm as it can be perceived as pushy (even though I'm not meaning it to be).. Aaah well, I'm still working on it all, and it does feel good for the confidence to be finally starting to come back after the gut kicking!!..

That's all for today..

[Starsky309]

I'd be shocked if there weren't someone else, LoveHer, but it really doesn't matter -- your course should be the same. LET HER GO, WORK ON YOURSELF, and begin to demonstrate -- over time, consistently -- that you "get it" and are a changed man in regard to her prior marital complaints.

Whether that attracts her back or whether it just better equips you in your next relationship, you need to do those things. As Cadet likes to say around here "your wife has given you a gift of time -- use it wisely."


Starsky

[Gotan74]

I'm going through much of the same if you want to swing by my thread.

[LoveMyW]

I'd be shocked if there weren't someone else, LoveHer, but it really doesn't matter -- your course should be the same. LET HER GO, WORK ON YOURSELF, and begin to demonstrate -- over time, consistently -- that you "get it" and are a changed man in regard to her prior marital complaints.

Whether that attracts her back or whether it just better equips you in your next relationship, you need to do those things. As Cadet likes to say around here "your wife has given you a gift of time -- use it wisely."

Starsky

Starsky, at this point in time I'm definite that there is no one in the picture at the moment.. I won't go in to the lengths I have gone to prove it, but it was all negative in regard to OM.. Like I have said, I am not ruling out the possibility that she wants the freedom to chase though (even though the signs aren't really there though)..

I am going to IC to work on my issues, and I am changing every day.. I am doing it for myself, and whatever happens in the M will be the cake topper (if any)..

I am subscribing to the main thought of "believe nothing of what you hear, and 50% of what you see", as like I mentioned, the whole "move on, date, I'm happy" was right in the midst of my "begging, needy, annoying".. Nothing like that has really been said since though so that has to be a good sign, or at least a plateau..

I'm going through much of the same if you want to swing by my thread.

Just took a look at your thread Gotan, and some points do seem similar.. I am fighting this battle long distance at the moment though, which could work 2 ways.. Either absence and changes will make the heart grow fonder, or give her the distance to do whatever.. Either way I plan on making MYSELF a better person.. I've dug myself out of holes before in life, but this one is by far the biggest.. I feel like I'm up the wall, but the daylight I see is still only a speck.. I WILL GET THERE THOUGH either way..

Not much else to report today.. She had a family birthday party for her mother last night, and it looked like all had a good time.. The MIL called during the evening to say that she wished I was there, but circumstances prevented that.. It's nice to know her family still care and take time for me!!..

[LoveMyW]

Just had a really good late night chat with the wife.. It was probably the warmest, most flowing chat we have had since the proverbial hit the fan!!..

She texted me about some new furniture she had delivered, and that she spent all day putting together on her own.. She needed to know about some PC stuff and it was just easier to call instead of texting..

I had every intent of making it a quick "yep, this is how it is done" chat, but the conversation ended up turning to other "small talk", and the next thing you know it was an hour and a half later.. I stuck to the not pressuring or chasing and LISTENED to what she was saying.. I also let her initiate the bulk of the conversation..

Admittedly, I'm a bit torn over it as I didn't really stick to the rules of "short, sharp and sweet", but the conversation was going so well from both sides that it didn't really seem like it was as long as it was..

Have I stuffed up, or is it a good thing that we spoke the way we did??..

[LoveMyW]

It seems my posts are taking a while to be moderated, so these will probably all come through together, but anyway here is todays update..

Had a good day today.. Just cleaning the place and stuff, but no bad feelings or anything.. Had a real good chat to the kids this evening as well which was good..

Got thrown a bit of a nice curve ball by the W as well.. She has starting talking about R and M albeit in a roundabout way.. I'm not getting my hopes up, or looking too much in to it but we were talking about a small issue with a certain family member, and she mentioned about "if we get back together" in the line of conversation..

I felt like this was a great step forward in our chats, as it has gone from pretty much "it's not going to happen", to "if we get back together".. I let her do all of the talking about R and M, which ended up being about 15 minutes worth.. I didn't come across in any of the wrong ways during the chat, and only spoke about M when I agreed with a couple of points she made regarding the issue..

Like I said, I'm not getting my hopes up massively, or looking too much in to it, but it would have to be agreed that it is a good step in the right direction..

[LoveMyW]

Nothing really to note today.. It's been a good day overall, and my sprits are high.. It's no talk to W day to give her space (unless she initiates)..

[LoveMyW]

Oh, and my copy of DR should be arriving any day.. Already found myself a copy of DB, but I gather I should be reading DR first??..

[LoveMyW]

Well I had a little slip up in conversation today with W, and it has probably put me a couple of steps back..

The kids mentioned that they were going to a B'day party for one of the W's friends tonight (friend has kids and they were going to a family restaurant).. I don't have an issue with this at all, but I made an off the cuff comment "I suppose you are going to go out drinking tonight".. The comment was said as a joke, and had that tone to it as well, but the W has Aunt flo visiting (if you know what I mean) and fired back with "I'm not, and it's none of your business if I do" plus a couple of other smaller comments.. I mentioned that I was joking, but I can't help but to think that it was taken the wrong way, and that I am back a couple of rungs down the ladder..

On a positive note, I have been approved for a unit near the W and kids, so a move will be coming up shortly!!..

[SunnyB]

I made an off the cuff comment "I suppose you are going to go out drinking tonight".. The comment was said as a joke, and had that tone to it as well, but the W has Aunt flo visiting (if you know what I mean) and fired back with "I'm not, and it's none of your business if I do" plus a couple of other smaller comments.. I mentioned that I was joking, but I can't help but to think that it was taken the wrong way, and that I am back a couple of rungs down the ladder..

Just because Aunt Flo is visiting doesn't mean that wasn't an offensive comment. And you saying you were joking after the fact doesn't fix it, either. Own it.

[LoveMyW]

I made an off the cuff comment "I suppose you are going to go out drinking tonight".. The comment was said as a joke, and had that tone to it as well, but the W has Aunt flo visiting (if you know what I mean) and fired back with "I'm not, and it's none of your business if I do" plus a couple of other smaller comments.. I mentioned that I was joking, but I can't help but to think that it was taken the wrong way, and that I am back a couple of rungs down the ladder..

Just because Aunt Flo is visiting doesn't mean that wasn't an offensive comment. And you saying you were joking after the fact doesn't fix it, either. Own it.

rppfl, I am thinking it was one of those "had to be there" scenarios to see how it rolled off the tongue, and how it sounded.. I'm not really seeing how the comment would be offensive though, if you could please further explain that??.. No argument intended, but I'm just not seeing the offensiveness..

[SunnyB]

rppfl, I am thinking it was one of those "had to be there" scenarios to see how it rolled off the tongue, and how it sounded.. I'm not really seeing how the comment would be offensive though, if you could please further explain that??.. No argument intended, but I'm just not seeing the offensiveness..

Love, that's just the way it struck me when I read it. Maybe I had to be there. But clearly your W didn't think it as amusing as you did and my point is, don't be so quick to blame it on Aunt Flo. At least consider that it might have been something about the comment or the situation itself.

[LoveMyW]

rppfl, I am thinking it was one of those "had to be there" scenarios to see how it rolled off the tongue, and how it sounded.. I'm not really seeing how the comment would be offensive though, if you could please further explain that??.. No argument intended, but I'm just not seeing the offensiveness..

Love, that's just the way it struck me when I read it. Maybe I had to be there. But clearly your W didn't think it as amusing as you did and my point is, don't be so quick to blame it on Aunt Flo. At least consider that it might have been something about the comment or the situation itself.

Point taken.. The blame wasn't fully on Aunt, but I have said that before in the same joking manner and got a good giggle out of her.. You may be right about it being the comment/situation.. Maybe the timing was wrong??.. She may not have been feeling 100%??.. Who knows.. All I know is that I backslid slightly and have to make up that ground again.. It's funny how something so small can bring you back down in attitude..

[Georgiabelle]

Love,

Just a thought. Things that your w used to think were funny, may not resonate the same with her now.

[LoveMyW]

Well it's a bit of a rough day today.. I'm pretty angered with myself for saying what I said yesterday, and I can't help but to think I'm back further than step one but who knows..

Basically, I feel like the earlier days of separation and all that keeps playing in my head is the W telling me to move on and that she isn't in love with me etc.. Things seemed to be going so well too considering.. Maybe they still are, and I'm just beating myself up on it??..

I'm almost feeling like it's done for good, but I still want to keep up the fight.. That's just my train of thought for today.. I will work through it and get over it though..

On another not, DR should be arriving any day now.. Started to read DB last night, but my head wasn't in it.. Also, many people suggest DR over DB, so that might be best to wait for it..

[LoveMyW]

Nothing really to report from the last few days.. No advancements or setbacks..

STILL waiting on DR to arrive!!.. Shipping from UK can be a nightmare apparently!!..

One thing to note, I think in some ways I have been mistaking the warm conversation for amicability.. I don't know but that's the feeling I have..

Talking to the W last night and to cut a long story short, she mentioned that she doesn't want R "at this stage in her life".. I asked her what she meant by that as I didn't understand, and she said "you would have to be a woman to understand"..

Can anyone explain to me what the heck that is all about??..

Sometimes I get the felling that I am fighting a losing battle mainly because every day feels like a month, and the more time we are separated, the further away she is distancing herself.. I'm still not prepared to give up though.. The advice here is brilliant, but I can't wait to get the DR book..

[LoveMyW]

Just thinking, but there is something I need to get out of my head too..

I keep thinking to myself "my sitch is different to everyone else's, and nothing is going to work".. I read the comments on the boards here, and I know it is no different, but sometimes I think that..

Is that normal for LBS??..

[raliced]

Hi LoveMy W,

I think a lot of us can run the spectrum from hopeless to confident all within the space of the day or even hours. Regardless, feeling hopeless will not help. You will see a lot of people on these boards reference keeping a PMA (positive menatl attitude) and it really is critical for your own mental health and for your kids.

Hang in there!

[LoveMyW]

Thanks for the reply Raliced..

Yeah I know PMA is a big thing, and the roller coaster is still happening (I'm not quite 8 weeks in yet), but it seems like every minute is another step further away..

Yep, I'm having a down couple of hours but I'll pick up shortly!!.. I keep hearing her say "move on, find someone else", and that isn't what I want to do..

Makes it worse (or better depending how you look at it) that there isn't OM in the picture (never has been) and that she seems happy living this single life.. In all honesty I don't think I was that bad for her to throw away 10 years just like that..

I am genuinely hoping she has a "separation fog", and that I haven't pushed her away forever..

Vent/sook moment over!!..

[raliced]

Keep in mind as you look through the various signatures on these boards that 8 weeks (which is almost the exact length of my situation) is nothing (although I can attest that it feels like forever). Whatever our various Walk Away Spouses are going through, it is obviously a major crisis in their lives(if not THE major crisis in their life), and really, in that context, 8 weeks is not very long at all.

[Ss06]

I agree with raliced. 8 weeks, in the scheme of things really isn't much BUT I will say that 2.5 months since BD for me and there is a LOT more clarity in my day-to-day life. Almost like I was in my own "separation fog". Now I am calm, don't cry really, I am not angry and I see very clearly what the issues are, how to fix them (specifically for some and generally for others), what I want to do differently, etc.

There is freedom in separation, as much as it hurts. It really is a gift of time and I intend fully not to waste one single minute.

Granted, my WAH is NOT nutty and behaving like a lunatic like some WAS are on this board so I am fortunate in that department. Also, it is pretty clear to me that I was NOT a fun wife to have. I know that and I hate it but I am committed to never being that person again. Easy to say, hard to do.

[Riley]

LoveMyW,

Taking off the ring, changing Facebook name, changing hair style are all typical WAS behavior. The behavior exhibited is equal to a 16 year old spoiled brat that wants the single life fun, but the married life stability and financial support. The thought process of a WAS will be inconsistent, dramatic and will change suddenly.

Do not get hung up on what they say, because again they're 16 and rebelling against mom and dad (you). The actions can sometimes show their old self but for my situation this was almost as unreliable as the few, choice words my soon to be ex-W used.

As for my situation, my ex is bi-polar, is currently living/using some dude she works with and last I heard was using cocaine. This was not the first time and will not be the last as she burns through friends and acquaintances, sometimes a WAS needs to get kicked around to really appreciate what they lost.

You seem to love your W and your M, go for it. I gave up at the mention of cocaine, drugs are a no game.

[LoveMyW]

Keep in mind as you look through the various signatures on these boards that 8 weeks (which is almost the exact length of my situation) is nothing (although I can attest that it feels like forever). Whatever our various Walk Away Spouses are going through, it is obviously a major crisis in their lives(if not THE major crisis in their life), and really, in that context, 8 weeks is not very long at all.

I agree.. 8 weeks isn't much time overall (especially when the rest of our lives together are at stake), and as much as she isn't showing it on the outside, I will bet that she can't be feeling as "carefree" and "problem-less" as it comes across.. My W is a VERY headstrong person (part of the attraction!!) and she wouldn't show the hurt to me (or anyone else for that matter)..

I agree with raliced. 8 weeks, in the scheme of things really isn't much BUT I will say that 2.5 months since BD for me and there is a LOT more clarity in my day-to-day life. Almost like I was in my own "separation fog". Now I am calm, don't cry really, I am not angry and I see very clearly what the issues are, how to fix them (specifically for some and generally for others), what I want to do differently, etc.

There is freedom in separation, as much as it hurts. It really is a gift of time and I intend fully not to waste one single minute.

Granted, my WAH is NOT nutty and behaving like a lunatic like some WAS are on this board so I am fortunate in that department. Also, it is pretty clear to me that I was NOT a fun wife to have. I know that and I hate it but I am committed to never being that person again. Easy to say, hard to do.

SS, I am starting to see some clarity myself now, but some moments are worse than others.. Funny enough, I haven't been angry over the situation.. I guess this is because I have sought IC to control myself better (not that I was out of hand), and have tried to show nothing but kindness and compassion to my W and kids..

I will also agree with you that my W isn't half as bad as some of the things I read, and at least w have good communication (which is why I have chosen LC over NC).. I can't wait to move closer to the kids as it will give me a better chance to GAL, because as much as I'm trying now, there isn't much to do where I am currently located!!..

LoveMyW,

Taking off the ring, changing Facebook name, changing hair style are all typical WAS behavior. The behavior exhibited is equal to a 16 year old spoiled brat that wants the single life fun, but the married life stability and financial support. The thought process of a WAS will be inconsistent, dramatic and will change suddenly.

Do not get hung up on what they say, because again they're 16 and rebelling against mom and dad (you). The actions can sometimes show their old self but for my situation this was almost as unreliable as the few, choice words my soon to be ex-W used.

As for my situation, my ex is bi-polar, is currently living/using some dude she works with and last I heard was using cocaine. This was not the first time and will not be the last as she burns through friends and acquaintances, sometimes a WAS needs to get kicked around to really appreciate what they lost.

You seem to love your W and your M, go for it. I gave up at the mention of cocaine, drugs are a no game.

Riley, fortunately she hasn't changed her FB name, only relationship status!!.. Yes, I understand what you are saying about acting like a spoiled brat, and now that you have said it, that is almost exactly what it is like!!..

I'm trying not to take to heart what W says but sometimes it strikes a chord.. I guess that boils back to "believe nothing said, and only 50% of what you see"..

IF she does start dating, I really hope that she doesn't get with a dropkick who will hurt her, but it may be what is needed to show her that thing in the M weren't so bad.. I'd never wish it on her, or allow it to happen for that matter, but I see what you are saying..

Yes, I do love my W, and I will go for it.. I have to remind myself that it is going to be a marathon..


Thanks for the comments and goodwill today guys!!.. My head is in a better place than what it was earlier so thanks for reading/listening to the rant!!.. I used to work in a high pressure job where I dealt with hardened people, and had to put up with physical and mental pain on an almost daily basis, but this separation stuff is more than anything I have ever dealt with before!!..

[Riley]

Love,

The muscle for dealing with loss and depression is very rarely exercised. I, likewise, work in a high stress environment and I think I do fairly well given about 6 years experience.

It would not be a surprise if a WAS is looking or found another individual but these usually do not last. They are usually full of compatibility problems, people trying to escape reality, uncommitted emotions, raw emotions, maybe drugs (at least in my case), etc... If these do happen it is almost always a drop kick to the face.

If you keep yourself civil and appropriate on ALL forms of communication, and are not cold, explicit or cruel this will also help to get the WAS to rethink their endeavor. A WAS will still act cold and cruel but do not feed their cake eating.

Positive reinforcement in all forms helps greatly, you are who your friends are. Good luck.

[LoveMyW]

Love,

The muscle for dealing with loss and depression is very rarely exercised. I, likewise, work in a high stress environment and I think I do fairly well given about 6 years experience.

It would not be a surprise if a WAS is looking or found another individual but these usually do not last. They are usually full of compatibility problems, people trying to escape reality, uncommitted emotions, raw emotions, maybe drugs (at least in my case), etc... If these do happen it is almost always a drop kick to the face.

If you keep yourself civil and appropriate on ALL forms of communication, and are not cold, explicit or cruel this will also help to get the WAS to rethink their endeavor. A WAS will still act cold and cruel but do not feed their cake eating.

Positive reinforcement in all forms helps greatly, you are who your friends are. Good luck.

Very true Riley.. I suppose if that muscle got worked more it wouldn't hurt so much when it does!!..

I can unequivocally say that there is no OM at the moment.. Whether she is looking, I don't know, but there isn't anyone that is currently on the go.. I have stopped snooping after I proved my point in the earlier days of S, but there have been no red flags to say so.. If there is a current OM, she is doing a VERY good job of hiding it, and keeping her daily life identical.. I honestly don't think she is looking AT THE MOMENT either..

I am staying civil within conversation, and although I have had a couple of muck ups from "jumping the gun", none of it has been cruel, cold or overtly explicit (more flirtatious than anything)..

Myself and this site are my positive reinforcement at the moment, as I have no real friends where I currently am, and most of our friends are mutual, so I don't want to burden them with my issues.. Unfortunately, my family isn't really worth talking to about it either..

[LoveMyW]

Well kind of happy days!!.. DR finally arrived today, so I know what I will be getting stuck in to tonight!!..

Had a good Facetime with the kids earlier, and went NC on the W as she seemed busy.. This will get her thinking as we usually have a little chat at the end of kids calls etc, but I left her to it.. Will be interesting to see if she contacts me later!!..

[LoveMyW]

On to the third chapter of DR already.. I can see what you guys mean about it!!.. Although I'm only so early in to it, I am seeing similarities between stories in the book and my own sitch..

Got a bit of a headache kicking in now so the book is down until tomorrow.. Nothing to do with reading, but more the weather here today as it has been up and down..

[LoveMyW]

Righto DB'ers, I've got a predicament and need advice..

So I had a bit of FaceTime with the kids again tonight, and kept NC with the W.. All well and good at this point.. 5 mins later S9 facetimes me again to ask a question, and the W and I had a very brief chat about a parcel that I am waiting on..

Now, roughly 30 mins after this I got a text from W regarding a laugh moment.. I kept the comms short and sweet and to the point (3 text convo) and I finished it off..

Fast forward to about an hour after this and I got a text from her regarding nothing in particular.. Just chat.. Now it wasn't that I ignored this text, but merely didn't hear it.. About 45 mins after this text I got a msg saying "What's your problem".. I replied that I was busy, once again kept the comms to the point and short..

So ultimately, even though it wasn't intended, NC seems to be pi$$ing her off!!.. What I need to know is, should I continue on the NC path, or am I going to cause damage to any forward movement by doing it??..

[Ahoy]

Sounds like she is trying to connect with you in a friendly way. I'm not a vet, so I can't say what the "right" thing to do would be. But in my case, I try to be friendly, so I might respond to a text like that by saying -- "No problem -- I just didn't hear my phone." It's the truth, right?

Anyway, NC sounds like it's working because now she is trying to make sure you're still there for her in some way.

[LoveMyW]

Sounds like she is trying to connect with you in a friendly way. I'm not a vet, so I can't say what the "right" thing to do would be. But in my case, I try to be friendly, so I might respond to a text like that by saying -- "No problem -- I just didn't hear my phone." It's the truth, right?

Anyway, NC sounds like it's working because now she is trying to make sure you're still there for her in some way.

Thanks Ahoy..

Yes, that is pretty much what I did, although not in those words.. I agree, it seems like it is working in some way.. I'm just hoping it's not coming across as being a "doormat" though..

Funny we are talking about this as as I type I just got another text!!.. Once again nothing.. Just a smiley face!!..

[LoveMyW]

Ok DB'er, how do I handle this one??..

Talking about a pic of her on FB, and I mentioned that she looks like she has done a serious face pic.. She replied that it is a cute face pic..

Now, what should my proper response to this be??.. I know what I want to say (you look damn hot!!), but that is not right.. She gets a little annoyed if I say that she look attractive in something especially when she is not "dolled up" (even though I'm not lying)..

So what should I say??.. Agree in a "validating" way??..

[MrBond]

"Now, what should my proper response to this be??"

Not responding. You're not a dog to be lead around once your master throws you a bone.

[LoveMyW]

True Mr Bond..

I have let the comment slide as if it wasn't said at all..

[LoveMyW]

Ok, so after reading the bulk of DR so far, I have decided that I need to go LRT as we are separated physically.. Being such early days (8 weeks today), and full implementation only occurring in the last week or so (moreso NC rather than LC than anything else.. Other 180's have been followed for the last 4-6 weeks) I'm kind of seeing changes in her but not really, and am busy working on myself the best I can (GAL, IC etc)..

Now, here is a bit of a conundrum.. The W mentioned a while ago that she wanted some better looking headlight globes in her car (not a huge thing I know).. I have already purchased them as I have a supplier to get them dirt cheap from..

Here is the issue.. The LRT says no gifts, but I was going to give them to her without needing to pay me back (the cash for them is nothing really) and I was going to install them as it is a fairly in depth job on the car in question..

Should I do this, or would it be against LRT??.. I'm looking at it as a improvement in safety for W and S6+8 whilst driving, but at the end of the day it is a gift, and giving 2-3 hours of my time..

Grrrr, I'm hating the confusion!!..

[MrBond]

"I have decided that I need to go LRT as we are separated physically.."

Why? LRT means that you agree with them to D and leave it at that. You haven't done that. You're not at LRT.

"Other 180's have been followed for the last 4-6 weeks) I'm kind of seeing changes in her but not really, and am busy working on myself the best I can (GAL, IC etc).."

Stop watching every move your W makes. If she has a positive interaction with you, jot it down and continue to live your life. Increase the positive actions and reduce the negative ones.

Now, here is a bit of a conundrum.. The W mentioned a while ago that she wanted some better looking headlight globes in her car (not a huge thing I know).. I have already purchased them as I have a supplier to get them dirt cheap from..

"Here is the issue.. The LRT says no gifts, but I was going to give them to her without needing to pay me back (the cash for them is nothing really) and I was going to install them as it is a fairly in depth job on the car in question..

Should I do this, or would it be against LRT??"

Again, you're not in LRT. And in any event, you got them any way. So go ahead and put them on BUT with no expectations. She may even get angry at you for doing so, but pay those actions no mind. A real man does what needs to be done without letting others influence them.

[LoveMyW]

Mr Bond, I thought LRT may have been where I was at as in DR it mentions that LRT should be used "when physically separated".. You have made it obvious that I am wrong in this respect.. So I should just be sticking with 180's for now??..

Positive interactions are happening at times, and I suppose I am asking to see changes too soon..

I intend to be a real man, and I have always handled these type if jobs in the R, but I didn't want to be doing anything detrimental..

[LoveMyW]

Ok, vent time!!.. It's one of those times in my head..

Why is it that my W seems to be GAL'ing better than I am??.. It is really annoying me.. I know in reality she probably isn't but everything to her is peachy at the moment??.. I know she had only gone out 2-3 times since S, and only occasionally visits friends/family and the rest of her time is spent at work, looking after the kids, or on FB (messenger is a good one for knowing when they are on)..

She says stuff on pics like "Welcome to my fun filled, inspirational life" (these are downloaded pics from sites mind you).. She also power likes stuff like "Life is short, be with who makes you smile", and other "women-centric" quotes that I probably look too much in to..

I mean, I don't want to delete her on FB, or block seeing what she likes as there are a few things she likes from extended family members that I may miss in my feed that I like too..

It just seems as though she doesn't even want to reconsider even though we have had 10 years and 2 kids together.. It kind of makes me feel like I have been a drag on her life.. Things can never have been that bad that she seems like she wants to "re-write history" as another board member put it..

I friggin hate these pages like LSI etc as they seem to be able to give the wrong impression even if they are inspirational quotes..

Anyway, vent over.. Just A moment for me I needed to get off my chest, and hopefully someone can chime in on..

[LoveMyW]

I suppose you could say I'm jealous in some ways how everything seems to be "water off a ducks back" for her, while I am trying to dig myself out of hell.. Sandi2,you are a former WAW aren't you??.. Is this how you felt??..

Apologies for the double post.. My edit button seems to be missing..

[jim0987]

Hi LoveMyW.

You've got remember that a big part of facebook is a competition of people trying to make out they have the best life. Its basically public gloating.

She is also probably liking this stuff about 'life is to short' because it fits with her coping mechanism. I accept that I'm probably mind reading on your behalf but I would say when kids are involved the person who doesn't want to work at it is either completely heartless or will be looking for ways to justify things to them self

I'm sure someone who knows a lot more about this stuff than I do would say to not worry about what she is doing, do what you need to do to make you happy.

Don't get me wrong its really (censored) hard - I'm struggling that my W seems to be going out and getting blind drunk once a week and that her mates are trying to fix her up with other men. Made worse by the fact that I've been trying to get her to go out and enjoy herself for the last couple if years but she always had an excuse. I figure its about proving to herself that I'm the problem making what she is doing easier for her. But still all that dwelling on that does is feed my insecurities and make me less attractive (I'm less good at hiding this than I thought I was).

So back to the point - work on your own GAL'g and do things that make you happy.

[LoveMyW]

Hi LoveMyW.

You've got remember that a big part of facebook is a competition of people trying to make out they have the best life. Its basically public gloating.

She is also probably liking this stuff about 'life is to short' because it fits with her coping mechanism. I accept that I'm probably mind reading on your behalf but I would say when kids are involved the person who doesn't want to work at it is either completely heartless or will be looking for ways to justify things to them self

I'm sure someone who knows a lot more about this stuff than I do would say to not worry about what she is doing, do what you need to do to make you happy.

Don't get me wrong its really (censored) hard - I'm struggling that my W seems to be going out and getting blind drunk once a week and that her mates are trying to fix her up with other men. Made worse by the fact that I've been trying to get her to go out and enjoy herself for the last couple if years but she always had an excuse. I figure its about proving to herself that I'm the problem making what she is doing easier for her. But still all that dwelling on that does is feed my insecurities and make me less attractive (I'm less good at hiding this than I thought I was).

So back to the point - work on your own GAL'g and do things that make you happy.

Thanks for your reply Jim..

I know what you are saying about FB being a weeing contest, but she never used to be like that on there, and that is whats getting up my nose!!.. I don't intend to turn it in to the contest between us either as I want people to see that I am the better person in that respect, even though I am more than likely looking too much in to it..

You could well be right about it being a coping mechanism too.. When I bought it up early in the S, W has said she has always liked stuff like that, but TBH I never really noticed before (but I don't really pay all that much attention to FB so she probably has).. She hasn't blatantly said she doesn't want to work on M, but has said "she is happy with her life at this point in time"..

I am trying to do what makes me happy as much as I can.. I'm just having a bit of a rollercoaster moment as I am missing my kids, and missing W as well.. I am detaching as much as I can, but sometimes the feelings fight their way back through..

Yes, I have read your sitch, and what your W is doing, and I am sad at what she is putting you through.. Fortunately, my W hasn't been doing that, and I don't think her friends would be trying to fix her up either, but I can't be certain as I am not there..

I'm showing PMA in our chats, even though it is almost NC at the moment (my choice).. Yes, I'll keep to my GAL'ing!!..

[jim0987]

My Ws best friend has been having a PA for sometime and has been making plans to leave their husband for OM. I suspect she is encouraging some of this as she wants a partner in crime and is feeding a lot of grass is greener £#%&.

Detaching is always going to be hard, if it wasn't then why are we bothering to try and save the marriage. Keep up the PMA and I hope things work out for you

[LoveMyW]

Thanks Jim!!..

[LoveMyW]

Forgot to mention, why do WAW's have to be so unpredictable??.. NC seems to be having an effect I must say, and taking notes of when it works believe you me!!..

In between my last 2 post, I get a text from W saying can you ring me please.. I obliged as I had just had FaceTime with the kids and thought that she wanted to mention something about them..

Anyway, roughly 45 mins later I got off the phone.. Nothing about the kids other than organising my first weekend with them after I move back, but we just had some lighthearted small talk otherwise.. I had every intent of a quick on and off conversation, but talk flowed freely about nothing in particular.. I'm not going to take this talk to heart, but she does seem to be reaching out however small it is..

I'm ready for the 2x4's though as I stuffed my NC for now..

[MrBond]

"So I should just be sticking with 180's for now??.."

You should be doing 180s anyway.

"It just seems as though she doesn't even want to reconsider even though we have had 10 years and 2 kids together.. It kind of makes me feel like I have been a drag on her life.."

That's YOUR interpretation. They aren't made to hurt you. You have to let that go. All of that anguish is something you're doing to yourself. You're getting upset just over an inspirational quote. Find some quotes of your own to get you inspired.

"You've got remember that a big part of facebook is a competition of people trying to make out they have the best life. Its basically public gloating. "

That is an totally wrong assumption. You only feel that way NOW because of the situation you're in. If your W posted that she was happy that she was married to you, you wouldn't consider it gloating then.

Both you and jim act as if EVERY action your W's are doing are a way of rubbing your face in the situation. They are not. That's what you two don't understand. This is HER journey and it has nothing to do with you. Once you understand that, you'll understand how to treat her.

[LoveMyW]

Mr Bond, I couldn't agree with you more..

RE: the 180's: I intend to keep them up, but I was talking more in regard to that vs LRT..

Basically, these comments were written when I was on the downer side of the rollercoaster, and today has been a ton better, and looking back I wonder why I even wrote what I did..

Just one of those days unfortunately..

[LoveMyW]

So it seems like the W is trying to reach out to me a bit more, but I can't be 100% certain.. I've got a couple of texts off her regarding joint financial matters, and have kept my replies short and sweet and to the point.. Today when I was texted about a matter I replied with "cool" as the only response (that was all that was needed as a response to the particular question) and I got a reply with "Okay.."..

Now I know that seems like a pretty typical response to most people, but I know my W and when she uses .. behind a word, it usually means either:

A - She doesn't believe me, or is annoyed at what I have said, or

B - She has had the conversation end before she is ready

Either way, after hearing her early in the S saying "I don't have to talk to you every time the kids call" or "I don't want to talk to you every day", it seems like lately she has been forthcoming with contact (initiated by her) on a fairly regular basis since I started almost full NC.. It has been a 50/50 split between business and just chatting.. As mentioned in an earlier post, she seemed to reach out for a chat, and we chatted a good 45 mins - 1 hour even when I didn't intend to..

Baby steps is what I will take, and I'm assuming the LC/NC would still be the best course of action for now, so I'll stick with that unless one of you guys can give me a reason to do it differently..

[LoveMyW]

Well some good news has come my way today!!.. I have found a tenant to take over my lease, have found an apartment to stay in, and in 4 days will be making the 2000km trek to be closer to my kids!!.. I can't wait!!.. W and I have spoken, and I will have them for 5 days straight when I arrive, which should be great for all of us.. I know the kids have been missing me dearly, and after 2 months the W could use some downtime..

Now, by then it will have been 9.5 weeks since I have been in the vicinity of W, and I plan to show PMA, act "as-if" and have no expectations of what is going to happen (good or bad) even though she seems to be softening..

What worries me is how do I act otherwise??.. I'm not meaning personally as I am getting some of my old self back, and at this moment I think I can handle the emotions that will likely flow (although I'm libel to cry when I see the kids, it's only human nature).. What I mean is, if she wants to hug me, or give me a kiss etc, do I reciprocate in a non overly enthusiastic way, or do I play it down??..

Silly I know, but I don't want to come off in a bad a way that undoes any of the groundwork so far..

[LoveMyW]

Basically, should I just play it as it happens, or stick to a plan??..

[LoveMyW]

Well good deed done for the day.. As part of my GAL, I decided to help others whether less needy or not.. Well as I am moving, I had a cupboard full of in date, unopened food that I can't/don't want to take with me on my trek..

Lets just say a family of battlers with 5 kids are now feeling very happy, and I am feeling warm and fuzzy inside myself!!..


I've also had a thought that popped in to my head today, and I'm hoping that someone may have been in the same situation, or may be able to give their opinion on it..

Now, as I've stated, I copped the ILYBNILWY after we moved states to a place where neither of us know.. Here is the question, could the move or more homesickness for that matter caused W to drop the bomb??.. I know it may not be the only thing, or anything to do with it, but like most of us my WAS never really gave any indication before the move (the more I think of it, the more there weren't even signs) so it just got me thinking..

[LoveMyW]

Well I'm not going to lie, today has been plain straight F'ed up..

Packing things up for my move, and realising that I have to throw away or sell half of the stuff myself and W have worked hard for the last 10 years to acquire.. I just couldn't fit it all in, and can't book a trailer etc..

To top it off, W seems to be a bit distant toward me in our convo's today, although that could be because I am coming across a little stressed due to the issues I have come up with with moving.. PMA has taken a hammering, but in 3 days time I will have the kids and that gives me something to look forward to..

I intend to be looking my absolute best when I get there to see them.. The hair is cut, the body is trimmed (separation diet works wonders!!), the face is shaved and by that stage the PMA will be up there.. If not I'll fake it til I make it!!..

[LoveMyW]

Aaaannnddd to top off the night, I had a bit of a backslide talking with W..

One of the kids mentioned they had a sleepover at one of the W's friends place (she has kids roughly the same age and have known each other for years).. They have never had a sleepover there before so I asked if mum stayed too.. I heard her say in the background "why are you asking that"??..

Well after I got off the phone w/kids I called her and mentioned that they haven't slept over there before hence why I was wondering.. She said that she stayed there with them because she didn't want to catch a taxi home, so I asked if she had been drinking.. She said yes, and didn't want to risk driving..

My mind hasn't been with it today, so I fired back with "it seems like you are acting like a teenager all over again".. Well this started a line of conversation which led me to coming across as needy and probably other things (telling her I wanted us to work things out etc)..

I have mentioned to her previously that the last thing I wanted to do was annoy her, and it seems in this last talk I succeeded in doing that.. I could tell by her speech, and because she told me straight out.. I texted her later to apologise, and mentioned that I have been under a bit of stress with the packing etc.. I got a positive reply of that was fine..

I can't help but to mind read, but I'm thinking that she is thinking I am only coming back to stress her about R+M.. Back to square 1 I suppose..

[LoveMyW]

Well, the long drive went good, and I am awaiting the ferry for the overnight journey now.. Spoke to W and kids before getting here and to be honest, she seemed excited about my arrival.. Nothing was physically said, but tone of voice and demeanour gave it away..

Time to see if we can get this M possibly on the right track again (over time of course, but it is going to be easier being in a closer proximity).. If it doesn't happen, going to be a better man overall anyway thanks to the learnings from here!!..

I can't wait to see the look on the kids faces tomorrow afternoon.. They have no idea that I am coming back (my request to surprise them)!!..

[JCred]

I don't see where you have talked more about how your wife really felt about initially moving away from her family?? And I believe you said it was like 2000 miles....And now you are moving back yourself... like it is no big deal..

Do you or did you understand how important moving away from family and friends really is to some women? Men usually don't feel quite the same when moving. We usually view it as more of an adventure and when our minds have decided we want an adventure we tend to not see how our wife truly feels. Sometimes the man tries "selling" his wife on the move despite her feelings deep down inside. She doesn't feel she can honestly reveal her deep thoughts about this because he just isn't hearing it...

Do you or can you see the difference in how this may have rocked her to her CORE????? Maybe even went along with you because you didn't or wouldn't listen to HER true feelings because she might say NO she didn't want to??? Then when she got there it all hit her that she wasn't going to do it for one minute more and that she had done it to please you and now she wasn't going to please you anymore?????



Who's idea was it to move?

I think you need to look deeper into this. It looks as though she never wanted to move away in the beginning and you could have just "sold" her on it by not allowing her to feel open and honest about her true feeling on moving.

You are coming across like someone who makes excuses for his behavior.... Twice you have made comments about your wife and then excused it... One was when you asked her if she was going out to drink and then said you were only joking.. the other time was when you asked the kids if she stayed all night with them at the sleepover and then said the reason you asked that was because they had never slept over there before...

To be quite frank with you, I don't believe your excuses for a minute. AND neither did she... You were prying...

I don't think you are being totally honest about yourself with us or with yourself here.....

Please read 25's thread about her husband wanting to move to Alaska and how she viewed it versus how she says he viewed it...

Food for thought....

[LoveMyW]

I don't see where you have talked more about how your wife really felt about initially moving away from her family?? And I believe you said it was like 2000 miles....And now you are moving back yourself... like it is no big deal..

Do you or did you understand how important moving away from family and friends really is to some women? Men usually don't feel quite the same when moving. We usually view it as more of an adventure and when our minds have decided we want an adventure we tend to not see how our wife truly feels. Sometimes the man tries "selling" his wife on the move despite her feelings deep down inside. She doesn't feel she can honestly reveal her deep thoughts about this because he just isn't hearing it...

Do you or can you see the difference in how this may have rocked her to her CORE????? Maybe even went along with you because you didn't or wouldn't listen to HER true feelings because she might say NO she didn't want to??? Then when she got there it all hit her that she wasn't going to do it for one minute more and that she had done it to please you and now she wasn't going to please you anymore?????



Who's idea was it to move?

I think you need to look deeper into this. It looks as though she never wanted to move away in the beginning and you could have just "sold" her on it by not allowing her to feel open and honest about her true feeling on moving.

You are coming across like someone who makes excuses for his behavior.... Twice you have made comments about your wife and then excused it... One was when you asked her if she was going out to drink and then said you were only joking.. the other time was when you asked the kids if she stayed all night with them at the sleepover and then said the reason you asked that was because they had never slept over there before...

To be quite frank with you, I don't believe your excuses for a minute. AND neither did she... You were prying...

I don't think you are being totally honest about yourself with us or with yourself here.....

Please read 25's thread about her husband wanting to move to Alaska and how she viewed it versus how she says he viewed it...

Food for thought....

JCred, thanks for your reply..

Now to answer your questions.. First up, I didn't think it was required to speak about the move as it was a joint decision, and was planned 6-8 months before we moved.. It was something that we both saved for, and were looking forward to.. It was W who initially got the ball rolling be expressing her interest in making the move.. Given this, I think it makes your point regarding "rocking her to her core" to be moot, but please feel free to correct me if you think I am missing something in HER idea rocking HER so much..

The only thing I can think is that once we were there that she got homesick..

If that is the impression you get about my sitch, then you have read me all wrong.. I'm not sure how you run your life, and I haven't seen your name on this board before this comment, but if you knew me and my W personally, you would know that the kids have NEVER slept over anywhere other than families houses (grandparents, cousins etc).. Knowing this, and hearing they slept at a friend of W, of course I am going to ask a question as it has NEVER happened previously.. Once again, I beg you to correct me if I am wrong..

I'm wondering what your motives are behind your particular comments that you have made, but they don't seem helpful at all.. I don't really appreciate being told I am not being honest, when I have given all information about my sitch, and have answered any questions directed toward me honestly, and informatively..

I would really like to hear your reasoning behind your train of thought..

[LoveMyW]

Anyway, a great uniting with the kids today.. Tears did flow from all eyes, and now they are on a sleepover with me for the rest of the week.. Had a fun day with them today (in between unpacking), and my PMA is through the roof ATM!!..

Went in with no expectations with W's reaction to seeing me, and tried to make it as less awkward as possible for her, and it seemed to work.. We had a coffee and good chat when I picked the kids up.. I did what was expected as I let her talk, and I made sure I listened.. I validated her comments, and kept eye contact with her whilst she spoke.. All in all it went well.. There was no physical contact although there did seem to be a little bit of good "tension" there..

She made a comment on how good I look, and I replied with "thank you, you are looking well yourself".. She also asked if I could put the light bulbs mentioned earlier when she picks S6+8 up to which I replied yes.. She then asked what I'd be coming for tea that night, and would I mind if she stayed for tea.. I said that would be fine as I would be sorting the kids out, so I'll just make a little more..

Now to make the most of the time with the kids!!..

[LoveMyW]

Well I'm beginning to wonder whether this is the place to ask for help or advice..

Could someone tell me what I am doing wrong??.. Is my sitch too complicated, am I not explaining things well enough, or it's just a case of no one cares??.. I try to keep everyone updated so they know where my sitch is at.. I've ordered and read DB and DR as everyone says on other post.. I have tried to join in other conversations and give support.. Is none of this good enough??..

I am getting hardly any replies or help so if I am burdening everyone just let me know..

[LoveMyW]

Got out with the kids today and had a great one!!..

Took them shopping with me (home stuff, a few toys for them here and a trip to the hardware store which they love!!), took them fishing (didn't get a nibble but it didn't matter to any of us) and took the dog to the park for a while..

Topped it off with homemade pizza for tea (I never make pizza from scratch but it turned out pretty well) and a movie.. S6 lasted 3/4 of the way through it, and S8 was wanting more, but I told him bed time..

Had a couple of texts from W today about logistical stuff, but nothing to really note..

[LoveMyW]

Another good day with S6+8 today, with more to come over the next couple of days I'm sure!!.. Had a lot of fun playing games and watching movies as the weather was pretty cruddy to be doing anything outside.. We did manage to get a little shop done though to get a couple of toys for them to keep here..

Had some more contact with W today basically regarding how the kids were, and just general "business" stuff.. We were both chirpy and friendly though which is always good..

My PMA has seriously been at the highest point it has been since S, and I attribute this to being with the S6+8.. I find that even though they remind me of W, it seems to "sooth" me and I have realised I haven't even really thought of her over the last couple of days..

On saying all of that, it's amazing how one little comment can almost unravel you.. When talking it was mentioned "you have the kids every second weekend".. Those 7 small words almost threw me, and I can't help but to think that R/M or anything even close to it is on her mind.. To me, it almost sounded like she is making long term plans.. I didn't let it hit me like a freight train, but it did sit in the back of the mind for a while..

Is it normal to get those feelings from something as simple as that??.. Could someone please chime in with any advice you have..

[bravo61]

LMW,
I understand completely that feeling. My W and I will be having a great time and then she will mention something I've done wrong in the past or she spoke to her atty. I politely remind her the past is the past & I'm sorry for the man I was and I would like to have good time. Sounds like you reacted just right and didn't take the bait. In a lot of ways it's like a foster kid, they will test you for a long time before they can trust you. Keep up the good work. Don't give up!!!

[LoveMyW]

LMW,
I understand completely that feeling. My W and I will be having a great time and then she will mention something I've done wrong in the past or she spoke to her atty. I politely remind her the past is the past & I'm sorry for the man I was and I would like to have good time. Sounds like you reacted just right and didn't take the bait. In a lot of ways it's like a foster kid, they will test you for a long time before they can trust you. Keep up the good work. Don't give up!!!

Thanks for the support bravo..

Yeah, there have been a few time I have bitten before, but I'm slowly learning not to.. The other one that gets me over the last couple of days is "it hurts/[censored] that the kids aren't here".. I honestly feel like giving a full on reality check and saying something about how she went WAW and I didn't get a chance to see them for almost 3 months.. That would be counterproductive for all involved so I have refrained there too..

Thanks again, and trust me, I don't intend to give up any time soon!!..

[JCred]

I don't really appreciate being told I am not being honest, when I have given all information about my sitch, and have answered any questions directed toward me honestly, and informatively..

I would really like to hear your reasoning behind your train of thought..

I need to say I'm sorry to you. I was wrong in my approach to you and I truly apologize for my rude comments.

I am a former WS and do have a knowledge of what a wayward is thinking. I certainly see that I didn't help you.

[LoveMyW]

I don't really appreciate being told I am not being honest, when I have given all information about my sitch, and have answered any questions directed toward me honestly, and informatively..

I would really like to hear your reasoning behind your train of thought..

I need to say I'm sorry to you. I was wrong in my approach to you and I truly apologize for my rude comments.

I am a former WS and do have a knowledge of what a wayward is thinking. I certainly see that I didn't help you.

JCred, I accept your apology unreservedly.. I would also like to apologize for my reply to you, as looking back, I may have been a bit harsh myself..

I REALLY don't think she is a WS, but more of a WAW.. The last few days would have been the perfect opportunity for her to "stretch her legs" as it were if there was anything else was happening as the kids wouldn't be in the picture, but AFAIK she has been working extra hours to make more money (backed up by a phone call from work number about the kids), and then not doing much else apart from catching up with friends/family members..

I'm not going to deny the fact that she may be looking, or interested in someone but it hasn't happened yet AFAIK, and after 2/3 months you would have thought something would have surfaced, especially when she has previously told me to "move on" etc..

Another small positive I forgot to mention earlier.. She is picking the kids up from me on Sunday afternoon, and when she does I have the headlight job to do on her car (which will take me a couple of hours).. I told her that I would make the kids tea to save her doing it later, and that I would make some extra so if she was hungry she could have some too.. To my surprise so said that sounds good.. I know it's not much, but cooking something decent was never a strong suit, but one of my 180's is to start cooking something more substantial.. I can cook, but got in to the habit of just making easy stuff instead of cooking up a nice meal..

No expectations, and I will put no pressure in there.. Just a friendly offer of "I have cooked too much" is how I thought of it, and how it came across by the look of it..

[JCred]

JCred, I accept your apology unreservedly..

Thanks. Very kind of you.

I would also like to apologize for my reply to you, as looking back, I may have been a bit harsh myself..

Apology accepted.

Now. Back to the issue at hand... Winning your wife back...

I highly recommend that your first step is to call Dbing and set up a series of appointments with Chuck.... I am sure he will tell you to find something in your life to get passionate about as part of GAL..Notice the word PASSIONATE..... He has also been known to say to laugh a lot.... learn to laugh and laugh often... (Women LOVE to laugh with a man who they are in love with... they often fall in love with men who like to laugh and have silly fun)...

From my experience and from listening and observing most women.... Here's what I think your most important goals should be....


Confidence.. (Over and over you will see that women are attracted to confident men).. In your case it's important to show that you are fine with life just the way things are. With or without her....

Women love men who are happy... (If you really observe relationships you will see that happy men attract women. Happy men keep women. They love men who are fun to be with and can joke around...
When you observe the men who came on this site because their wife wants out.. almost every instance the man has said he had been depressed or angry or not happy with his job, etc. etc. etc... I don't recall too many of them saying I was a happy person to live with so she left me... Learn to be a happy man.. (Happy just as things are)..

Emotionally strong... Women are attracted to emotionally strong men. Men who they can lean on emotionally. Think of the silent, strong, rock kind of man.... It's ok to show feelings now and then, but the wise man is EMOTIONALLY tuned to HER FEELINGS.. This is why it will set you back by wanting to talk about the "relationship".. It conveys WEAKNESS emotionally and trust me women can sense this and it is a huge turnoff.. We don't want to show weakness emotionally at this point.. We want to show STRENGTH emotionally... Kind of like... "Hey, I can handle this." (with your actions more than your words)


When you combine these all together consistently with NO BACKSLIDES.. We don't want backslides... Yes, we will tell you to move on from them, but let's eliminate them altogether as far as the confidence, being a happy man and being emotionally strong... this puts you on the right track...

Please be careful with overdoing things FOR her... You mentioned fixing her lights,making the kids tea and also tea for her... mentioning fixing her some food.. that's three things in one paragraph.. that could be too much too soon.. You can come across as "trying" too hard... Remember confident men don't usually have to "try" too hard to win a woman... The woman is attracted TO HIM because he comes across as someone ALL women would like..

Confident, happy, emotionally strong men usually don't chase a woman who says they don't want them... That's why it turns a woman off.. Ask Sandi about this..

SOOOOOOO, We have to "chase" her until she catches you.. (think about that)...

What 180's can you do to show confidence, happiness and being emotionally strong?... These are ways to draw her back without appearing to be chasing her.....

[LoveMyW]

Well the kids have now gone back to W's, but I have them again next weekend with plenty planned!!.. W seemed happy to hear that they had a lot of fun when they explained to her what we have been up to..

W arrived to pick up S6+8 just as I finished cooking tea, and said hers was in the oven for her if she wanted it.. She mentioned she wasn't hungry as she had been out to lunch.. Well I put the headlight globes in that I have mentioned previously, and came back in to grab a tool I had forgotten and found her eating some.. She mentioned that it smelt too good, and since when did I cook up something like this (one of my 180's has been to cook better stuff than something fried/grilled etc).. I just said that I wanted to try something different and left it at that..

I finished the job and came back inside (W had been watching the kids play Xbox) and mentioned to her that it was all done and expected her to up and go.. I got a bit of a shock when she said that I had better make her a coffee before she went..

I did the above mentioned (I was keen on one myself) and we sat down and chatted.. Nothing in particular, but just good friendly chat.. I kept PMA up, validated when need be, and looked her in the eye and LISTENED to everything she had to say..

One thing I noticed that she was talking a lot about "stuff WE had" or "stuff WE once had" (material things).. Not much I know, but for the first time in person since S she was mentioning WE.. I'm not getting excited but it seems like a positive sign.. She also noticed new clothes I was wearing, and mentioned they looked good.. I also made sure I was shaved and smelled good!!.. I would say she noticed, but didn't say much..

I wonder what is next (if anything)!!..

[LoveMyW]

Well 2x4 needed here I think..

Once again I feel I have put my foot in the proverbial.. Things between me and W have been going well the last few days.. Nowhere near R or getting back together, but calm and good.. I went to pick up S6+8 today for their weekend with me and stayed at hers for a while, had a coffee and a really good chat.. As I was leaving, we were both speaking really well, and there was a moment there where I thought something may happen, but didn't move on it and left it at that.. I felt there was a bit of a good tension in the air..

Here is where the 2x4 is needed.. Whether I was mind reading, had the situation completely wrong because of my feelings, or read it right, I made a huge mistake when talking to W after she rang to speak to the kids (her request to talk to me after).. I bought up R & M, and I was wrong to do so.. The ensuing conversation got her annoyed, if not a bit more than that.. It also got her saying about how her feelings hadn't changed to which I said that that was because she didn't want them to as other people have worked through problems way worse than ours, but she just seemed like she couldn't care whether we did or didn't work through it..

I didn't yell or scream, and spoke calm about it, but it was all still a FUBAR moment that should never have happened.. I rushed in too quick on what may (or may not) have been there, and I'm back at square 1 again I guess..

I thought I had detached enough not to care what she does, and for a while I honestly felt that, but now I realise I need to even more.. I'm getting my GAL on don't you worry, but I look at her GAL and it just makes me think "well there is why you don't want to change your feelings".. Mind reading I know, and I've just got to work harder on detaching and my own GAL/180 some more..

2x4 away!!..

[LoveMyW]

*sigh* So W calls yesterday to talk to S6+8 (boys weekend again), and we have a brief chat after.. Even after what I class as a backslide, she is openly talking to me, asking how my day was, asking about my job hunting and just being interested in what I am doing..

She explained about asking about the job hunting, as she wants me to have money and stability, and be able to give the boys stuff when they stay here (it doesn't matter what you do, money is always needed)..

All in all, the chats we have lately seem more friendly than friendly but at the same time she says her feeling haven't changed, and as I mentioned, it seems like she honestly doesn't want them to..

Once again *sigh*

[bravo61]

let it out LMW. you are not sighing, you're pissed and you should be. anger is a totally acceptable emotion. it is your body telling you that something isn't right. vent, cry, scream, but do it all on this forum. don't let the anger control you or hold it in. it will turn into resentment which is the hallmark of the WAS. you don't want to turn into one of them do you? close your eyes and imagine what a M would like like with the best you and the best her. now, can you look in the mirror and say that you have held up your end of the bargain? if you don't put in the work you are wasting your time. i'm not saying you aren't, just the collective YOU (if that makes sense). now picture that wonderful marriage again, is it worth working towards even if it may not happen? if you can't honestly say yes, then you have some decisions to make. who knows, that may help you detach. just my two cents. feel free to visit my thread and smack me about. God knows i feel i can't see positives right now but maybe i'm too close to the sitch.

[LoveMyW]

JCred, I accept your apology unreservedly..

Thanks. Very kind of you.

I would also like to apologize for my reply to you, as looking back, I may have been a bit harsh myself..

Apology accepted.

Now. Back to the issue at hand... Winning your wife back...

I highly recommend that your first step is to call Dbing and set up a series of appointments with Chuck.... I am sure he will tell you to find something in your life to get passionate about as part of GAL..Notice the word PASSIONATE..... He has also been known to say to laugh a lot.... learn to laugh and laugh often... (Women LOVE to laugh with a man who they are in love with... they often fall in love with men who like to laugh and have silly fun)...

From my experience and from listening and observing most women.... Here's what I think your most important goals should be....


Confidence.. (Over and over you will see that women are attracted to confident men).. In your case it's important to show that you are fine with life just the way things are. With or without her....

Women love men who are happy... (If you really observe relationships you will see that happy men attract women. Happy men keep women. They love men who are fun to be with and can joke around...
When you observe the men who came on this site because their wife wants out.. almost every instance the man has said he had been depressed or angry or not happy with his job, etc. etc. etc... I don't recall too many of them saying I was a happy person to live with so she left me... Learn to be a happy man.. (Happy just as things are)..

Emotionally strong... Women are attracted to emotionally strong men. Men who they can lean on emotionally. Think of the silent, strong, rock kind of man.... It's ok to show feelings now and then, but the wise man is EMOTIONALLY tuned to HER FEELINGS.. This is why it will set you back by wanting to talk about the "relationship".. It conveys WEAKNESS emotionally and trust me women can sense this and it is a huge turnoff.. We don't want to show weakness emotionally at this point.. We want to show STRENGTH emotionally... Kind of like... "Hey, I can handle this." (with your actions more than your words)


When you combine these all together consistently with NO BACKSLIDES.. We don't want backslides... Yes, we will tell you to move on from them, but let's eliminate them altogether as far as the confidence, being a happy man and being emotionally strong... this puts you on the right track...

Please be careful with overdoing things FOR her... You mentioned fixing her lights,making the kids tea and also tea for her... mentioning fixing her some food.. that's three things in one paragraph.. that could be too much too soon.. You can come across as "trying" too hard... Remember confident men don't usually have to "try" too hard to win a woman... The woman is attracted TO HIM because he comes across as someone ALL women would like..

Confident, happy, emotionally strong men usually don't chase a woman who says they don't want them... That's why it turns a woman off.. Ask Sandi about this..

SOOOOOOO, We have to "chase" her until she catches you.. (think about that)...

What 180's can you do to show confidence, happiness and being emotionally strong?... These are ways to draw her back without appearing to be chasing her.....

JCred, apologies for not replying earlier.. I didn't know this reply was sitting here..

As much as I would love to get a DB coach in, it isn't something that I can afford right now.. I know my M is worth any amount of money, but the real world needs bills paid too!!..

I understand what you are saying about the confidence, happiness and emotional strength.. I am showing confidence (more and more daily).. Obviously, I am struggling to be massively happy, but I am always TRYING to put across the front in any of our interactions.. Emotionally, I am getting better, but it is taking time.. I felt I was strong as funk before, and W knew it, but this has seriously rattled me more than anything else I have dealt with in my life..

Backslides have happened, but they are getting fewer and further between, so it must be a positive there..

The lights were spoken about a while beforehand, and although it was doing stuff for her, I found it was a safety thing, and it was more for the kids than her as it is the main car the kids are in.. I agree that the food may seem too much too soon.. I didn't look at it that way, but more of a "it's there, eat if you want".. Point taken though..

I agree about the chase comment.. I've seen it in my life before when women have broken up with me and I gave up caring.. They eventually contacted further down the track to say they were wrong, but it was too late for me by then.. I just fear that happening with W as well.. IF she does come back, I don't want it to be too late..

In all honesty, the 180 I could do would be getting myself seen out and about around town.. I know the pub/club scene causes more issues, but we live in a reasonably small town, and even if I wasn't going out to "pick up", word would get back to her about the good time I was having..

Without sounding like a douche her, but I am fairly attractive (so I have been told) so the female interest element would be there too..

let it out LMW. you are not sighing, you're pissed and you should be. anger is a totally acceptable emotion. it is your body telling you that something isn't right. vent, cry, scream, but do it all on this forum. don't let the anger control you or hold it in. it will turn into resentment which is the hallmark of the WAS. you don't want to turn into one of them do you? close your eyes and imagine what a M would like like with the best you and the best her. now, can you look in the mirror and say that you have held up your end of the bargain? if you don't put in the work you are wasting your time. i'm not saying you aren't, just the collective YOU (if that makes sense). now picture that wonderful marriage again, is it worth working towards even if it may not happen? if you can't honestly say yes, then you have some decisions to make. who knows, that may help you detach. just my two cents. feel free to visit my thread and smack me about. God knows i feel i can't see positives right now but maybe i'm too close to the sitch.

Bravo, I am with you about letting it out, and no, I don't want to be like the WAS.. AT THE MOMENT I can say yes, I am putting in the work as best I can, and I know full well that I want to save or rebuild my M with W.. I know I can do better, but better is always an option.. At the end of the day if it ends in D, then I want to be able to say I did everything I could and didn't give up, although at times it seems I want to but I fight through those thoughts because my W and kids are worth it..

Yes, our marriage as it was even a year ago is worth working for.. What I see now, I never want to see again!!..

I will visit your thread ASAP..

[LoveMyW]

So update time!!..

Started my new job today and although it's not what I usually do for actual work, it coincides with one of my favourite hobbies/pastimes so I'm pretty happy about that.. Full time as well, which was apparently going to be hard for me to find around here.. Only took 1 week of looking though!!..

On the W front, well there have been a couple of small wins that I could note.. One win is that she is wanting to spend some time around me (having a coffee and chat for an hour or so when picking the kids up or dropping them off).. Another small win is that she has been talking about we/us lately.. Not in the future sense, but about past stuff.. This didn't happen earlier in S..

I know none of it is huge, and I'm taking them as baby steps, but they are worth noting anyway.. She also seems to be asking for a little more help from me with certain things.. Once again, nothing major, and some of it is "maintenance" style stuff, but that never happened earlier in S either..

Does she want me back, is it the walls slowly coming down or is it just asking as a "friend"??.. Who knows, and honestly, I'm not going to mind read nor am I going to look to far in to it.. I do ask myself "why me" though as she has a good family base, and nothing she has asked me is things they can't handle..


On another note, I have been doing a lot of visiting since returning, and a few of the visits have been to W's family members (at their request).. I must admit, it feels good not to have any judging going on from their perspective.. FIL and MIL have both said they still look at me like a son, and extended family feel the same way too (aunts, uncles etc).. They are all wanting me to spend more time around them as well (invites back etc)..

W is fine with this so that's cool too.. Maybe not breaking up the family aspect may make the path home smoother if it happens..


Finally, I know I've copped a couple of 2x4's in the past for worrying about what W has liked on Facebook, or shared post that are "womens based inspirational quotes" (I would call them something else, but it will get censored!!)..

Anyway, she liked one today, and yes, it can be taken 2 ways, but I think it rings true for most of us on here if you look at the positive side.. It was:

"JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T HAPPENING NOW, DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T HAPPEN"

Take from that what you will, but the words do ring true as a pick me up.. Maybe that is her frame of mind, or maybe it was just something she though was good.. Either way, I'm glad she shared those words as they hit me in a good place for MYSELF..

If you look deeper in to it, it may not even be about our W/H's, but it does instill a feeling of "everything will be ok" somewhere down the track..

[jim0987]

My W describe her mortgage appointment for a new house on her own as 'kill or cure' so I think to an extent they are exactly like us - just looking for hope that the future will be better.

[LoveMyW]

Thankfully we didn't have a house in the mix Jim.. I wish we did, but never got around to it..

I see what you are saying though..

[jim0987]

Glad the job is going well by the way

[LoveMyW]

Thanks Jim.. First day in to it, and it has been enjoyable!..

It did my self esteem a world of good finding and getting it, as I have always been one to be able to sell myself, and it proved to me that after everything that has happened in the last few months that I have still got it!!..

[LoveMyW]

Another great weekend with the kids this one has been, but its a bit of a "boys day in" today as the weather isn't the best for outdoor activities.. PS3 and Xbox it is!!..

W seems to be softening a bit more, and seems to be wanting more communication with me.. We had a chat last night after the boys were in bed and she mentioned about a couple of times I had questioned her in the past over her activities, and why I did it.. I said to her it is because I care and that I love her (first time I have told her I love her in 2 months).. I also mentioned that we both need to live our separate lives and be great parents for our kids (which we both are), but there is also ALWAYS going to be care and love there for her from me..

She had her rebuttal by saying that she will always care about what I do too but stopped short of saying anything about love.. In the past she has says she doesn't care about me dating etc, but doesn't care about anything I do.. Well in this conversation the mood kind of changed.. I mentioned to her that we are very similar in feelings etc and that I know she would care, to which she admitted that she would.. She also said she does care about my GAL (not her word), and would be happy to see me do things but she can see a herself being territorial with dating.. I know this doesn't mean much to most of you (the territorial part), but we have ALWAYS said we aren't jealous of each other, but we are territorial (jealousy is for things you don't have, being territorial is for things you do)..

Funnily enough, there was no talk of not getting back together this time (which usually precludes these chats), but there was no talk of getting back together either..

I didn't initiate any of this conversation at all, but just listened, validated and answered where I needed to in what I deemed to be the appropriate manner..

After the "in depth" sort of talk, we just spoke more casually (the deeper talk seemed light as well though and not full or serious R talk) and she mentioned she was at home bored, but not feeling too well because of a cold.. I told her me and the boys were about to have pizza and watch a movie and left it at that.. Her response was "I'd like to watch it and have pizza, but I don't want to make you sick".. Once again I left it at that instead of saying "come over it doesn't matter".. I put out the offer without directly asking or making it, and she responded at least..

I asked her what she is doing for the boys for halloween (not a big thing where we are) and she mentioned not much.. I said that maybe I/we should take them trick or treating (I don't have them next weekend).. W caught me off guard when she said "we should all get dressed up and go around".. I said are you serious, and W said that she would think about it, but either way I could pick up the kids and take them.. When I mentioned about costumes she said I should go as someone with their head chopped off, and she would be the person with the bloody machete!!.. I laughed, said that would be right and agreed that it would be funny.. We both got a good chuckle anyway!!..

We worked out that the easiest/cheapest costume for the boys would be zombies (they are right in to them at the moment), so a visit to an op shop is in order to get a couple of little suits to make a mess of, then the fake blood etc as well.. It should be fun for us even if W decides not to go!!..

All in all, whether the walls are coming down or not, I don't know but everything seems to be coming along more freely lately.. I'm trying my hardest not to push too hard, and to stay at the right distance.. I'm still keeping it in my mind that I am nowhere near the finish line yet, even though I can kind of see it in the distance, through a telescope!!..

[sandi2]

I'm trying my hardest not to push too hard

Don't push.......period. If she is warming towards you, it won't take much to scare her off.

This is my opinion about most cases and what/how most LBH's should do b/c I think it is where a lot of guys mess up. They have it in their heads they can talk her into taking him back. If he says enough and convinces her that she really does love him and really does want to be with him......then she will surrender and once again he has conquered her. They ride off into the sunset and everything goes back to normal once again.

The truth is that the more he tries to change her mind, the more he hurts himself. Not only does it make him appear needy and insecure, but most WAW'S would feel very smothered and pressured by his persistence.

Instead of assuring her that she will always have your love, it would work better for you if she was a little concerned about it (at this particular point and time) b/c she knows she has hurt you really bad, and she knows you should find a woman who actually wanted to be with you. In other words, she should not take you for granted. And she will......as long as you persue her and proclaim your undying love all the time. Actually, a woman will think less of a man who they treat badly and he keeps running after her. I mean, would you respect someone like that? Neither will she.

So, don't try to change her mind. Don't try to convince her the M can be fixed or that you have changed or anything. If she wants to talk, then STFU and just listen. (This is not the time for you to talk.) Too many LBH'S are way too eager to give their opinions at the slightest chance. She will get scared to even approach the subject, knowing you will jump at the chance to talk.....talk....and talk. Or in other words, pressure......pressure......pressure.Stop trying to win her back. It makes a LBH unattractive to his WAW, b/c everything has shifted gears and the rules are different now.

Enjoy your life, be charming, and let her come find you and work to get you back again. Am I suggesting that you act cold, mean, distant, etc.? No, not at all. Just stop trying to have a R with someone who doesn't want you. Why would you want to have someone who doesn't love you? Don't you deserve to have a woman who loves you as much as you love her? That's all I'm saying. Just stop the pushing. Let her make up her own mind without your pressure, and let her pursue you!

[LoveMyW]

Thanks for the words Sandi... I understand exactly what you are saying, and I'm trying to back off when these chats come up, but what you have said is true for us LBS.. I get the feeling I do push the point too soon..

I also get the feeling she is worried about me moving on at the moment (not that I am looking to, but "as-if") and that is why she has warmed a bit.. That is just my opinion anyway.. Next time we have one of these chats if she initiates it, I will be a bit more non-chalant (for want of a better word)..

I am definitely enjoying my life more now that I am back in familiar surroundings, and that I am seeing my kids again.. I am wanting to make this work so I am taking heed of your words (and anyone else who has posted).. I've been the first one to admit I have had a few backslides, but they are getting fewer and further between..


Anyway, I'm taking a small win here I think.. As you all would have read earlier in my thread, soon after S, W changed her relationship status on FB to "single".. Well after our chat she has since hidden any relationship status (so it says none to show).. Nothing major I know, but to me it makes her seem less on the market..

Also, last night was a bit of a first in a while too.. I got a message later at night (around my bed time) asking how my day at work was.. Again, nothing major, but it sort of is for me as talk like that purely about my day hasn't happened in a while.. A small text chat ensued and I broke it off nicely after a few messages..

[jim0987]

Sorry to hijack slightly but I have a question for sandi (following up from some excellent advice)

Where do you see the line between being friendly and accommodating and being needy/weak?

[sandi2]

Sorry to hijack slightly but I have a question for sandi (following up from some excellent advice)

Where do you see the line between being friendly and accommodating and being needy/weak?

Don't know how well I can explain it, but I'll make a stab at it. Being friendly is when you respond to another person in a kind, pleasant, courteous, and warm, approachable, manner. You can be friendly to the closest person in your life, or to a total stranger standing next to you. Showing friendliness to another human being should not imply you are in some type of committed relationship with that person.

Accommodating is like being hospitable, neighborly, offering an hand, obliging, doing a favor for someone, etc.

The most confident, respected, masculine, secure, leader of a nation can be friendly and accommodating. It is a very attractive quality in a man. However, once it slides over into a needy/weak position, he loses those wonderful qualities b/c he is seen in a very negative light. Friendly/accommodating is a positive action where he gives of himself to another (briefly or longer). It is independent of requiring or expecting anything in return. Needy/weak is just the opposite and is dependent on someone else, seeking, expecting and requiring of them for his own emotional needs/purposes. (Assuming you are referring to needy/weak in the emotional sense.) His neediness is him wanting the other person to give him whatever he feels he's lacking. It can seem as though he tries to "soak" up the other person to fill himself. That's why it feels draining to have a needy person wrapped around you sucking the breath out of you. It is weakness and it is a turn-off for women to see this emotional weakness in men. We want men who we feel we can depend upon to protect, provide, and care for us. We want them to be stronger than us, really. I think when a woman feels her H is weaker than and more needy than she is.....she loses respect for him. It is not in any way attractive for a man to be emotionally needy/weak. (Of course, I am not referring to any type of mental or physical problem, or even some type of emotional trauma a man might suffer. I am talking about an otherwise healthy and/or "normal" man.) That may not seem fair, but it's just how it has been since the beginning.

[jim0987]

Thanks Sandi that makes a lot of sense. Also puts into to focus the scale of the mountain to climb. Or more accurately the canyon to climb out of before I can take on the mountain.

[LoveMyW]

Time for an update..

Halloween went alright for me and the kids.. Plenty of trick or treating, and they loved the dress up!!.. Unfortunately W was quite ill with the flu and didn't tag along, but appreciated a quiet house for a couple of hours..

There hasn't been any real movement either way on the M/R front, but I suppose no backwards movement can be seen as a good thing!!.. GAL and 180's are still happening as much as I can undertake them, and the home business is taking off again, as well as my day job..

I've had a couple of "crabby" days about the whole situation, which is strange as I haven't had one for a while, but I feel as if the "anger" side of things might be starting to manifest itself, but I'm trying to work around it..

I've noticed detaching is becoming a little difficult over the last couple of weeks.. In my mind, I think it is because myself and W have a good relationship all things considered, and there seems to be a bit of care there from both sides.. I'm working on that though!!..

[LoveMyW]

Having another awesome weekend with the kids this W/E!!.. Lots of fishing, swimming and playing done today!!.. It's sure good GAL, and I love spending time with them!!.. They are currently out playing with the dog (he has been around their whole lives(, and to hear the laughing and barking is heartwarming to say the least!!..They have also found themselves a pet lizard (only a baby one) which made their day, along with the fish they caught!!)..

I've got to say, I'm beginning to find W a bit hard to read lately.. I found out today that she has started "socially" smoking after quitting them almost 3 years ago.. It is a bit of a shock to say the least.. I know this is none of my business, but could it be the stress of everything weighing on her and it may be her release??.. There has also been the alcohol usage as I mentioned previously as well, so the 2 together makes me think..

W rang to speak to the kids as she does when I have them, and I asked about the smoking.. She admitted that she was, and seemed a little embarrassed about it.. I didn't judge as I am a smoker myself, but I mentioned that myself along with a lot of other people were proud of her when she quit, and why backtrack on 3 years good work..

Anyway, another "hard to read" part was when we were having a light talk about nothing in particular and she said that she only rang to talk to the kids.. I said "Ok, well I'll let you go, and have a good night" (it seemed like the end of the chat to me).. She continued to want to talk, but it was in the sense of "Oh, I forgot what I was going to say" and then I'd jog her memory and the story would go on.. This happened 4-5 times..

It seemed like she was wanting me to stay on the phone, but told me moments before that she only rang to talk to the kids.. She seems pretty up and down in closeness too.. Mindreading here maybe, but some days it is almost like she is going to say "lets get back together", and then others it is pretty much "this is it".. I'm trying not to get dragged in to it, and I am getting better over time.. I'm also trying to not outwardly show any signs of the up/down getting to me, but after all these years she knows my looks and tone of my voice..

Is the indecision (for want of a better word) I am seeing/feeling from her usual in my sitch, or is it a sign that she is having second thoughts, or is it nothing??..

Can someone shed some helpful thoughts on this for me??.. Sandi, Bond, 25, Cadet??.. Anyone??..

[LoveMyW]

Hey all.. Well I've been staying off the boards for a while as hearing all the bad news stories of others has done my PMA no good, and I wanted to purely work on myself, and hopefully give some meaningful updates..

I have had a couple of backslides in my happenings with W, but overall there hasn't been much in the way of change either way..

Interaction with W has been at a good level, and we are still talking very friendly/civilly (sp?), and are still spending roughly the same amount of time around each other..

She has been spending a lot of time with a 17yo female work colleague (W is 31), and I am seeing that this person is coming across as a bit of a sponge, but W doesn't see this fully yet.. She has got herself in to a bit of a trap with this person as she helped her out when she was contemplating suicide, and now this person has taken her on as a best friend etc.. W's kind heart might be biting her!!..

Anyway, W seems to get close to the point of almost being affectionate/intimate with me, but then other times seems to drift right off to not being cold, but just not there.. Is this typical WAW up and downs??..

I know I'm not imagining the closeness at times as it sticks out.. A perfect example was that we both went out for a smoke at my place, and there are plenty of places to sit, but she decided to sit right next to me on the stairs I was sitting, and there was barely a hand width between us.. There was no reason to sit this close.. I almost felt like kissing her, but I didn't want to push my luck!!..

My backslides are mainly coming from when we have good times, I mention a couple of days later about us getting back together, but the answer is always a negative, and then I get in to asking why etc..

Persueing, I know, and I expect a bit of a slap around the ears for it!!.. I'm finding it damn hard not to when the timing almost seems right though.. I also take from this that my detachment may need a bit more work too, and the fact I have to remember it's a marathon..

A lot of this is probably typical WAW behaviour, but I don't know.. I wish it was easy to work them out!!.. I look at my situation and realise I have it better than a lot of others (no OM, get to see kids, friendliness/amicability etc), but the biggest thing that is missing is the thing that hurts the most!!.. She tells me she still respects, cares and trusts me, and thinks I am attractive so why does it have to be so hard for her to make the decision to have the R again??..

I'll probably cop a 2X4 for this too, but a couple of weeks ago I purchased new tyres for her car, and am doing a major service on it tomorrow.. The 2X4's can come, but let me explain a couple of reasons why this is good.. It proves I am a MAN, and we all know that women love men who can do this sh1t!!.. Secondly, it proves I care about the environment my kids travel in.. Another thing that women love!!..

In the back of my mind I know I should be saying "stuff you, you left you sort it", but my heart and front of my mind says "do what is right for your W and kids safety, and show her the man you are".. I don't want my kids driving in a car with crap tyres, and I don't want them stuck in the middle of bumfvck if the car stuffs up due to lack of maintenance.. Someone may tell me I'm wrong for doing this, but in the big picture, I see I am right for the right reasons..

What gets me is that my W is definitely with my time and effort, even after everything that has happened.. I want nothing more than my family to be back whole again..

[sandi2]

Instead of expecting a 2x4 from us, maybe you could evaluate your stitch and say what you continue to repeat that isn't working for you.

[LoveMyW]

Sandi, What is not working is jumping in too quick, and I realise this.. I have to remember that I have to be in it for the long haul.. I have to get my head around slowing down..

To me, it seems to be the only thing I keep mucking up on.. It is damn hard not to take action when I see things slowly getting better though, but I will try my hardest not to do it..