Newbie Error- LRT too Soon- help!

[Bart42]

So in the session with the divorce Mediator he says "we can be ready to file in 3-5 weeks" and W became a deer in the headlights. She is not ready to put the date on the calendar for the next session and "needs a few weeks to find and meet with her own attorney.” Now its my job to keep the schedule moving without seeming like a jerk- told her the date can be a few weeks out but we need to get it scheduled. We'll see how that goes.

Then the unexpected happens- W says (on saturday) "I might go out tonight." (all her previous hookups are under the guise of a day of errands or late work nights). I say "so long as we are pretending to be a family for our kids I am not comfortable with you acting like you are single. If that's the way its going to be we should fast track the D and establish some ground rules about who goes out when.” So that was half boundary, half controlling. Best I could do when caught off guard.

But then W says “I guess Im jealous- you are handling this so much better than I am and are out doing things- I need to do more of that too.”

So my GAL is getting noticed, but instead of pulling her closer, its making her want to GAL herself.

She said again she’s not ready for S/D and I could see the hurt in her eyes. But its also clear she’s not ready to be truthful or give up OM. So that made be backslide a bit and say “When I’m divorced I want to be able to say that I tried everything in my power to save my M, but I’ve tried everything I can think of and I’m out of ideas, so this is the only option.” Then I walked out. This inferred I’d be willing to slow down/talk if she had any ideas (which was bad) but I wanted to show some compassion and tough love because being an a*hole was definitely one of my previous shortcomings.

Its all so hard when I just want to backslide and say “lets work on R”- which I know would be the wrong move. Push too hard and she goes off the reservation, hates me and becomes a full WAW. Ease off too much and she loses all respect and cake eats. So hard to know where the line is and what my next step should be.

Day by Day.

[sandi2]

So in the session with the divorce Mediator he says "we can be ready to file in 3-5 weeks" and W became a deer in the headlights. She is not ready to put the date on the calendar for the next session and "needs a few weeks to find and meet with her own attorney.” Now its my job to keep the schedule moving without seeming like a jerk- told her the date can be a few weeks out but we need to get it scheduled. We'll see how that goes.

Yep, those reality bites a WAW experiences are a b'tch.

But then W says “I guess Im jealous- you are handling this so much better than I am and are out doing things- I need to do more of that too.”

So my GAL is getting noticed, but instead of pulling her closer, its making her want to GAL herself.

That may be your interpretation but I think you are mistaken.

She said again she’s not ready for S/D and I could see the hurt in her eyes.

Believe it or not, that is actually a positive step. All of these are necessary steps in the right direction.

But its also clear she’s not ready to be truthful or give up OM

Stick to your guns and as she tastes more of what she "thought" she wanted, the more chance she will be willing to do what is necessary to save the M. But it doesn't come all at once (usually) and she is not quite there yet.

So that made be backslide a bit and say “When I’m divorced I want to be able to say that I tried everything in my power to save my M, but I’ve tried everything I can think of and I’m out of ideas, so this is the only option.” Then I walked out

Perfect!

This inferred I’d be willing to slow down/talk if she had any ideas (which was bad) but I wanted to show some compassion and tough love because being an a*hole was definitely one of my previous shortcomings.

Well unless you said it to sound like.....or unless you had the look on your face like an a'hole, why do you think that action appeared as one? It sounds like a good topping to her deer in headlights scene.

There is a time for compassion and a time for toughness. I think you played it right. You have to be careful about how much compassion to show a wayward wife b/c she will not only take full advantage, but see it as softness in some cases. A wayward needs to see strength and firmness at times like this. She is too messed up to distinguish between tenderness/compassion/grace from weakness and believing she's bought more time.

[Bart42]

Thanks Sandi- really appreciate your perspective here.

That may be your interpretation but I think you are mistaken.

So I should be more positive that the GAL is being noticed? Would appreciate your thoughts on other interpretations of her statement. I really wasn't sure how to take it because it wasn't "I want to join you" or "I like that too" but more "I want to do my own thing too" (forget that my activities center around building my character or doing new things with our kids, and hers involved a bar, but I digress....)

Well unless you said it to sound like.....or unless you had the look on your face like an a'hole, why do you think that action appeared as one? It sounds like a good topping to her deer in headlights scene.

I'm generally most worried about being too soft (my fist posts show what a softie I can be!), so when taking a stand I'm constantly worried I will over do it- one of my historic problems was arguing about virtually everything and creating a stressful home environment- so I am trying hard to be respectful and calm, but tough, in my dealings with W. I personally feel I struck the right balance and had a very even delivery- no doubt with a touch of emotion but I think that came through as compassion, not anger, so I think it was good.

Later tonight more crap from W about me allegedly txting OM's GF (I didn't and haven't since discovering A continued) so its clearly not paradise on the other side of the fence, but I refused to even talk about that one with her. Just told her the continued lies will hurt my ability to deal with her effectively when co-parenting our children.

Taking S for a great father/son day tomorrow so I'm just gonna focus on that- will remind W we need to set for mediatror when I get home.

[Jefe]

Sandi, I think you nailed it. I agree, I think he played it perfectly.

Good job, Bart!

[sandi2]

So I should be more positive that the GAL is being noticed? Would appreciate your thoughts on other interpretations of her statement. I really wasn't sure how to take it because it wasn't "I want to join you" or "I like that too" but more "I want to do my own thing too" (forget that my activities center around building my character or doing new things with our kids, and hers involved a bar, but I digress....)

It is difficult for me to explain some of these things in few words. Over the years of observation, I have learned that most male newcomers don't come close to what his WAW thinks or feels about any given subject. I mean, the WAS is incredibly self centered. She is ruled by her emotions and desires. She will break all rules to be in contact with her AP. She will even neglect her children.

When the LBH tries to deal with her as if she is the same woman he M, it usually doesn't get him very far. In most cases, I believe, he has to go into a different mode of opperation from what most people think of as saving the M.

When he stops being available all the time and stops pursuing, it kinds of throws her......(length of time varies from stitch to stitch). When she sees LBH getting out and enjoying life without her...instead of mourning her, she may act jealous, angry, depressed, or whatever. If she really doesn't care what he does, where he goes, or who he is with....then she is truly completely detached. But most of them can't help but to be curious about where, when, and with whom he GAL. The more mysterious the details are about his GAL, the more it pipes her interest. It can be a very effective distraction.

What she said sounded childish. She is not sure how to deal with this new side of you. It wasn't what she expected. A WAS doesn't seem to consider they are freeing up the LBS. They have put all their focus on their own freedom, so it is a new and confusing issue for her, really.

Make sure you keep your calendar full. You can plan activities for you and the kids, but you also need to take a lot of time for hourself away. If she says she is going to be gone, tell her that doesn't work for you b/c you have already schedule plans that can't be broken. When she asks what they are, you just look at her as of to say "really?".

Don't try to control her GAL. And......do some things that are just fun or relaxing. It doesn't have to be a character exercise or keeping the kids busy.

Later tonight more crap from W about me allegedly txting OM's GF (I didn't and haven't since discovering A continued) so its clearly not paradise on the other side of the fence, but I refused to even talk about that one with her. Just told her the continued lies will hurt my ability to deal with her effectively when co-parenting our children.

I know it must be very, very upsetting for you. I am sure it would be for me, too. She will lie to get more people to think she is justified in leaving you. Why? I think maybe b/c a WAW needs to feel she has someone in her corner, so she tries to recruit her own cheering squad...and the only way it will work is by turning them against you and that require lies. The more you try to confront or counteract what she says, the more it pulls you into her circle of drama/lies. People who really know you will think whatever they want to think, and the other people ......well, it doesn't matter what they think of you, does it? All in good time, the truth has a way of coming out. A strong man will go on about his life and let her pull whoever into her sh't bath, but you refuse to get in it.

I find it interesting she said she is not ready for a S/D. But at the same time she doesn't want to give up OM. She can't have both, unless you are willing to live in an open M. IMO, if she sees you walking forward without lingering around to see if she has second thoughts, she will realize she needs to make a choice and do something about it before you divorce her!

Now bear with me while I explain. You don't verbalize any of what you plan to do or not do. You give no promises or reassurances. You let your attitude and actions be your voice. She should be concerned over your decision. This is what I try to across to LBH'S. Instead of living in fear of what she may do, it should be turned around and she should be worried about what you will do. She is the cheater here!

I know you don't want a divorce! I am not telling you to get one, okay? I am saying to not discuss what you want with her. If she asks questions you don't know how to answer, find some words that mostly say you both have a lot to think about. Make sense?

How will she consider what she stands to lose, unless she begins getting little glimpses now?

[Bart42]

Sandi, thanks so much for taking the time to give me a woman's perspective on this- your comments really help me understand what I am facing so much better than I ever could comprehend by myself. I don't obstruct her actions, GAL or otherwise- to the contrary I largely give the impression that I don't care where she goes or what she does- the ironic thing is she keeps feeding me BS lines about what she is doing (and how it isn't OM), even though I don't react to them.

Now bear with me while I explain. You don't verbalize any of what you plan to do or not do. You give no promises or reassurances. You let your attitude and actions be your voice. She should be concerned over your decision. This is what I try to across to LBH'S.

I know you don't want a divorce! I am not telling you to get one, okay? I am saying to not discuss what you want with her.

Can you help me understand how to not verbalize and just "do" when WAW wants to cake eat and I need to be the one pushing for appointments with the mediator, etc? Even though I definitely don't want the D (but I am resigned to an S being necessary at this point) if I don't discuss what I want or push then she will delay and cake eat for as long as I let her. Or do you mean I should just end any sort of talks about what I want out of the process and limit talks to keeping the mediation process moving?

Basically, I'm trying to understand how saying "I don't want a D but I see no other options" was a good thing to say but now I shouldn't talk about what I want at all? I thought I needed to act like I want the S/D because she is not willing to come to the table and drop the OM and I am not willing to continue the open marriage. (Which isn't BS by the way- if its a D so be it- I'm not continuing to live this way).

I feel like I am at a critical point and I don't want to mess up whatever (slim) chance I may have here.

[sandi2]

Can you help me understand how to not verbalize and just "do" when WAW wants to cake eat and I need to be the one pushing for appointments with the mediator, etc? Even though I definitely don't want the D (but I am resigned to an S being necessary at this point) if I don't discuss what I want or push then she will delay and cake eat for as long as I let her. Or do you mean I should just end any sort of talks about what I want out of the process and limit talks to keeping the mediation process moving?

I believe you should end any more talks about what you want. Btw, you do not have to act as if you "want" a D, but just don't talk about your wishes anymore. She already knows what you want, right? It is b/c she knows what you want that causes her to feel secure in not leaving and the cake eating.

Unless you compromise and accept an open M, you don't have an option. If you do nothing, she will think you have accepted the terms of her staying with you.

To be clear, what needs to be discussed with her that has not already been covered? Just a date to meet with the mediator again? If it were me, I would find a good time to ask her if any date with the mediator is good with her. Just as if it were making an appointment with a dentist. Put on a poker face when you say it.

Other discussions about what you want in general or your plans for your life......or just GAL is off limits to her. At this point, you need to act as if you are already separated. I am not suggesting you run out and get a woman or anything like that! But in attitude and partnership you end any type of intimacy within the home with her. This is the path she chose with her actions. You do not need to be hateful or anything of that nature. Just withdraw and detach from your role as her H. Don't try to be her buddy or BFF. She doesn't want to commit to only you, so let her see how that life looks.

Are the two of you still sleeping together?

This may sound strange, since it is a marriage saving forum. However, in order to save the M, you have to save your dignity and she will have to respect you. If you lay these hard lines and then fail to deliver.....I think you may lose any chance of her respecting you. This is just my opinion.

[Bart42]

Crazy Update to my Sitch:

(Sandi- thanks and I will answer your questions later if they still matter af today's developments.......)

This morning I got a panicked call from the OM (we've only spoken once or twice) pleading for me to help him because "W is over my house and is freaking out and breaking stuff." I said "call the police." He said he can't so then I calmly said "you need to deal with it- it’s your situation and she's not my problem anymore" and hung up. Managed not to call the W or txt her either- radio silence from me.

W leaves me a message at work an hour or so later with her voice cracking to say that "clearly there was a bit of a situation" and we can talk later. She was obviously very shaken. W got me on my cell phone shortly thereafter before I played her message- she was much calmer and said say she was staying home from work today (no mention of "a situation" or talking this time) and I simply said "OK see you at home."

Old me would be madly calling/txting and running home to confront the issue, so one thumbs up for me today.

Should be a very interesting night, especially with the kids around. I see three options 1) She acts like nothing happened and I don’t bring it up 2) she is going to finally admit to some aspect of the A continuing or instead 3) is going to spin some crazy tale about how she was just at OM's apartment to help him with something and GF came home, got the wrong idea and started a fight or something. Either way, I think my attitude is going to be put on your BGP- show little emotion, be empathetic/compassionate but don't say more than "Sounds like a difficult situation for you, but I’m sure you’ll figure out how deal with it.” I will not get pulled into helping her deal with this situation nor will I talk about its impact on our R- I will act “whatever.” I will play it as detached and confident that her situation doesn’t really impact my future. If she starts talking R that will be the wildcard, but I think deflecting will be my best option.
I’m gone the remainder of the week on business, so should be interesting – she will either bring it to a head tonight or goes under the carpet with the rest of the dirty laundry.

[Starsky309]

BINGO. Good job!!!

[Bart42]

I fell like this is going to turn into a running commentary, but here goes:

W called again. "Just want to let you know I went to OM's house today and told him things are 100% over- told him not to text me or talk to me or contact me ever again." (At the risk of a 2x4 for mindreading, my bet is the fight was because OM is not leaving his GF and W freaked)- I've never seen her throw anything in 21 years so she must have been mightily upset).

I say OK, thanks for the update. Silence. I add "I'm sure things are hard for you but you'll figure it out." W thanks me for giving her time and space to deal with her issues. I say "hang in there" and we end the conversation.

So I guess back to limbo- no real admission of continuing A and no R talk at all. Not that I expected her to beg and plead for me to take her back, but I'd hoped this would lead her to at least mention our R. Probably too soon- time will tell if she decides she wants back in the M or instead just wants out of both the M and the A.

Guess I continue to play detached and compassionate, set up mediation sessions and wait for her to raise any R talk? I know from reading here that there is no point in restating my grounds for working on R, so I assume sitting back and continuing on the same course without offering any olive branches or additional signs of affection is still the right course?