Newbie Error- LRT too Soon- help!

[Bart42]

Did she agree to any sort of a transparency plan with you after the first affair discovery? Too often us betrayed spouses are so relieved that our wives or husbands want to come back to the marriage, that we fail to put proper boundaries in place.

I'm not sure I can describe this properly, but basically she has lied and only admitted the bare minimum, often blending truth with lies to make a story should reasonable (to her) at each stage of discovery.

Example: I discover inappropriate txts. She claims it got crazy and was just "fantasy"- nothing real or physical. I snoop more, find a plane ticket she bought him to join her on a work trip. She claims it was in return of physical therapy sessions and he was just there at the same time for a convention- they didn't meet up. After three weeks of me pressuring she finally admits he was there and spent one night with her "because he couldn't get a hotel room" but nothing happened. I still pressure until two weeks later the OM's girlfriend calls me and tells me the whole trip was a romantic weekend and its a PA- W acknowledges this was the case but never "tells" me anything herself.

That's her- deny, and when you can't deny any more, continue to lie and minimize.

So was transparency ever part of this? Minimally. She'd turn on a find my friends app for a few days, and then it would suddenly be off, and she'd claim her phone glitched out. I'd get nervous when she left a kids event suddenly to "work" on a weekend and she'd send me a picture of her in our home office- that type of stuff. But unlocking the phone has never been on the table and she strongly and emotionally reacts (almost losing it) to any demands for transparency claiming she will never be controlled by anyone. This is partly her history- FIL physically abused MIL (MIL was poor and trapped) and she is determined to never be in a position to be dependent herself. The rest is clearly cover for her behavior. Yes, a big part of our M issues are me "trying to control her" and her inability to really open up, be vulnerable and completely let me into her life.

Did I fail to set boundaries? Absolutely. but how to I set a reasonable boundary with someone who 1) isn't admitting the A is continuing and 2) has a history of lying whenever she thinks it is the "easier" course?

Note, she claims its easier to lie given our history and how I would historically react- which was to grill her on the facts and never let it go. This is even though time and time again over these last three months when dealing with the A I have never blown up when the truth finally comes out- I've 180'ed, but I made the mistake of pointing that out to her and she clearly still thinks its an act or that the changes won't be lasting.

[Bart42]

Your position needs to be "end your affair, and come back and work on the marriage with me. I think you will find that I am ready and willing to work on all issues, including my own contributions to our problems. But I'm not going to do it with a third person involved, and I'm not going to wait forever."

[Bart42]

The other reason I am waffling now is because (as W has pointed out) she’s been interally dealing with our marriage problems for years, and had basically written us off, but I’ve only been dealing with this (and changing) for 3.5 months. She recognized going to the OM was not the right thing to do, but as she didn’t see a future for us but wanted to keep the home together for the kids, that’s what she did to get her needs met. I fully get now how my being a hard ass and negotiating on every point of our marriage (like it was a business transaction) caused a lot of harm and hardened her heart to me, and how my excitable nature and the stress of my life led me to create a uneasy, tense home life that she fled from. She is way more delicate and fragile than I ever believed- I was reading about how men are like water buffalos and women are like butterflies- place a pebble on the back of the buffalo and he hardly notices, put place the same pebble on a butterfly and you crush it. That really resonated with me- I had always assumed because my W was type a type A go-getter who ate people for lunch as part of her job, we should interact as co-equals and were willing and expected to negotiate for everything we wanted. Big big mistake I regret learning this deep into my marriage.
So I guess where I am now is recognizing that because of the way I have handled the A and changed things about me, we’ve been talking more freely, respectfully and openly while dealing with this A than we have in years. I’d hate to throw away all that progress by going dark- while I’ve made progress I’m not yet “the husband she would be a fool to leave” (mainly due to all my pursuing, interrogation and moodiness around the A, and I’m worried because I’m not yet at my best, the OM (or ending the marriage if that is what I push for) may just be the better choice for her.

So confused 

[Bart42]

Well, maybe I just set an itty bitty boundary. W txted to say "can you cover the kids tomorrow morning so I can see [second] physical therapist" (OM is W's physical therapist- she was supposed to stop being treated by OM as part of a previous agreement but in fact just added a second therapist without stopping seeing OM). Instead of launching into the whole thing with her I replied "I'm not willing to discuss your therapy schedule anymore given the other aspects of your therapy choices I don't agree with. From now on please just ask me to cover the kids because you have an appointment"

Minor to be sure, but I think this is progress. Real test will be tomorrow. Tomorrow is the day her and OM typically see each other. W's typical routine is to schedule about three hours of things she doesn't end up doing (massage, IC, etc.) as a reason to be gone most of the day. So tomorrow we have a doctor's appointment, physical therapy and IC all scheduled back to back. Old me would be checking mileage on the car or calling the doctor to confirm the appointment, but new me isn't going to snoop. Will be hard but I will be calm, cool, ask no questions, appear happy and ask "as if."

Wish me luck.......

[Starsky309]

That's her- deny, and when you can't deny any more, continue to lie and minimize.

No, that's pretty much every cheater that ever walked the face of the earth. ALL CHEATERS LIE -- PERIOD.


OK, so no transparency plan was ever put in place and enforced. We won't make THAT same mistake again if we can ever get you back to a good spot!

Starsky

[Bart42]

Thanks, Starsky. Gonna be a long day tomorrow. Reading back though my posts, in addition to losing my nerve and being bad at boundries, I'm clearly mind reading again- sigh. Hopefully I start getting better at this soon- at least I'm starting to GAL and am really really enjoying my time with the kids. Off to reread the 37 rules and think about how to action some ideas for lasting improvements in myself.

[Bart42]

So here’s the latest:

This morning I backtracked (I know, don’t be too rough on me) from my “I want a separation” to “When I asked to separate, you asked for some time to think and consider things. I’m willing to give you some time so we both are going forward from the best possible place. My ask is that you end your relationship with OM and come back and work on our marriage with me. I think you will find that I am ready willing and able to work on all issues, including the ones I have caused. But I'm not going to work on our marriage with a third person involved, and I'm not going to wait forever."

W said “thank you” stood up and gave me a big, long hug. She then started with the “but just so we’re clear, nothing is still going on with OM.” I deflected with “I deliberately used the word “relationship”- I think we both see that your relationship with him is standing in the way of us making progress.” And I left it at that and walked out. She started to deny again but she stopped herself.

So now the real interesting time begins where I GAL like crazy, but I know I am going to be in constant fear of cake eating- she has me off her back, not pressuring, checking up or asking questions, and she gets to continue the A as we both pretend it isn’t going on! What a sweet deal for her- dinner will probably even be waiting for her on the table when she gets back from being with OM tonight.

I’m gonna need strength to keep doing this for a few months or years, but for now, I’m just trying to get through one day at a time.

Maybe I should STFU as I realize I am rambling and seem to be making way too many back to back posts. So if any of you other readers have any ideas or thoughts, I'd appreciate hearing them.

[Starsky309]

My advice would be to focus on the second half of that famous phrase "Trust . . . but verify."


Simple enough.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

My wife tried to give me the whole "we're just friends" thing too, and even lied to our adult daughters and her own parents about it (which I later had to re-confront her on, until she admitted the truth to them). But before that, I told her "OK, let's suppose for a moment that's true. You're basically telling me that your 'friendship' with this man is more important to you than the wishes of your own husband. Is that about right? I'm not okay with that."

If I was doing something "X" that was perfectly harmless, but my wife told me she had a real problem with it (let's say, casual porn use) . . . I would stop doing it, out of respect for her wishes. She's my wife.


Starsky

[Bart42]

My advice would be to focus on the second half of that famous phrase "Trust . . . but verify."

But she's claimed since July its over, and as recently as a week ago when I was still in snoop mode I saw clear evidence they were still getting hotel rooms together. So I have ZERO reason to believe its over or that she wants it over- to the contrary all evidence shows she is deep in the fog and very emotionally dependent on OM. Since she isn't ready to tell the truth there is no way to verify without snooping, and I'm not going there. Unless I'm missing something, its seems I STFU and DB, and once she shows signs of OM withdrawal or wanting to come back to me, THEN I verify through transparency and NC agrements- right?